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View Full Version : Worst winless start 0-17! Will the New Jersey Nets break the record?



JordansBulls
11-28-2009, 01:41 AM
* Worst winless start

* 0-17 by the Miami Heat in 1988-89 season (November 5–December 12, 1988, franchise's inaugural season)
* 0-17 by the Los Angeles Clippers in 1998-99 season (February 5–March 10, 1999)



With the loss to Sacramento today the New Jersey Nets are now 0-16 on the season.

Their next 3 games are:


@ LA Lakers
Dallas -18th game of the season
Charlotte


Will they have the worst winless start in NBA History at 0-18?

goku
11-28-2009, 01:43 AM
they most likely will lose the next game against the lakers

but wouldnt it be funny if they won

Vinny642
11-28-2009, 01:47 AM
O gawd the Nets are terrible, they will go 0-82! LOL Na but they will lose tomorrow and against Dallas to set the record

what54!?
11-28-2009, 01:47 AM
please break the record :pray:

G-Bay New J
11-28-2009, 01:47 AM
Sadly my Nets will probably break the record. But who knows, if Devin Harris would have been able to shoot at all tonight he woulda dropped 40. So maybe he can tear up his former team again and the Nets will tie it.

theuuord
11-28-2009, 01:49 AM
imagine if they beat the Lakers!??

i give it a 1 in 10 billion shot.
but hey, weirder things have happened.

AllTheWay
11-28-2009, 01:50 AM
If they beat the Lakers, I will kill one PSD poster at random.

theuuord
11-28-2009, 01:51 AM
If they beat the Lakers, I will kill one PSD poster at random.

better not be me. i already called it.

JerseysFinest
11-28-2009, 01:51 AM
im so upset, but u never kno, they might play with more determination and tenacity because they know whats at stake...

Jaji
11-28-2009, 01:52 AM
The Nets will never win again! Well, at least until next season when they move to BK and sign LeBron.

AirJordanXVIII
11-28-2009, 01:53 AM
I say they tie it. The record is eventually gonna get in their heads.

KingsMadness44
11-28-2009, 01:58 AM
hey u never know the kings beat the lakers in LA last year and they were awful last year so it can happen

SA5195
11-28-2009, 02:00 AM
NJ is gonna beat the record.

Teeboy1487
11-28-2009, 02:01 AM
If they beat the Lakers, I will kill one PSD poster at random. Just choose me because life will not be fair if the lakers lose to them first :p.

blastmasta26
11-28-2009, 02:04 AM
Yeah, they will break the record. I don't see Mavs or Lakers losing.

tr4shb0t
11-28-2009, 02:05 AM
they will set the record

Raph12
11-28-2009, 02:06 AM
No way they beat the Mavs or Lakers IMO, I say they start the NBA season with the worst possible record.

I wonder if the "Carter VS Harris 2008-09 Team MVP" arguement is over yet?... well, do we have any takers?

what54!?
11-28-2009, 02:07 AM
if the lakers or dallas lose.....:facepalm:

ko8e24
11-28-2009, 02:08 AM
sunday will be a trap game for the lakers. im serious, they better be ready, they're freakin reputation as defending champs is on the freakin line

Iodine
11-28-2009, 02:09 AM
If they beat the Lakers, I will kill one PSD poster at random.

Pick Me!!!

theuuord
11-28-2009, 02:09 AM
No way they beat the Mavs or Lakers IMO, I say they start the NBA season with the worst possible record.

I wonder if the "Carter VS Harris 2008-09 Team MVP" arguement is over yet?... well, do we have any takers?

Harris has been out almost all of the year with injury and started only for the second time this season tonight.
Carter was the MVP of the Nets last season, no question, but you can't use this season as proof of that.

Iodine
11-28-2009, 02:12 AM
Harris has been out almost all of the year with injury and started only for the second time this season tonight.
Carter was the MVP of the Nets last season, no question, but you can't use this season as proof of that.

Stop
Using
Logic
And
Reasoning
On
PSD
kthnxbai

AllTheWay
11-28-2009, 02:56 AM
So far, Theword and Iodine are my top choices to kill if they beat the Lakers.

Iodine
11-28-2009, 02:58 AM
dude
I should be the only choice

theuuord
11-28-2009, 03:04 AM
especially since he can't spell my name correctly

Raph12
11-28-2009, 03:06 AM
Harris has been out almost all of the year with injury and started only for the second time this season tonight.
Carter was the MVP of the Nets last season, no question, but you can't use this season as proof of that.

Didn't know Harris was injured for so long, that changes things a bit... good to know you don't think Harris was the Nets team's MVP last season though.

Vinny642
11-28-2009, 03:08 AM
So far, Theword and Iodine are my top choices to kill if they beat the Lakers.

Haha lol u mean Theuuord?

Ovratd1up
11-28-2009, 03:16 AM
Why does no one ever mention Minnesota? They are worse than NJ, and the only reason they aren't ones who don't have a win and the Nets are is because some D-Leaguer got a buzzer beater to go in the first game of the season. I'm calling it they finish with a worse record than New Jersey.

Jaji
11-28-2009, 03:18 AM
NJ needs to realize that finishing with the worst record doesn't give you 1st pick in free agency :pity:.

GoatMilk
11-28-2009, 03:22 AM
they'll beat the mavs

NYtilIdie
11-28-2009, 03:23 AM
How the hell are they so bad!?

They have CDR,Lopez,Lee,Haris (who I think is overrated) yet they still can't win. Oh well at least the NYK aren't the laughing stock of the league this year :) THANKS NJ!!!

GoatMilk
11-28-2009, 03:23 AM
NJ needs to realize that finishing with the worst record doesn't give you 1st pick in free agency :pity:.

they're playing for the 2003 1st overall pick lol

thedfactor
11-28-2009, 03:26 AM
last two trips to nj haven't been good to the mavs, but their team this year is much better all around so i don't see them losing a third year.

King P
11-28-2009, 03:30 AM
The thing that pisses me off, is that the Nets are not this bad. I'm a Nets fan, I have watched every game. If I felt they were this horrible, then I wouldnt care. But I know that they are better than this. So to go 19 straight games with out a win just really gets me upset. Because I know they are better than their record says they are.

jmastert
11-28-2009, 03:38 AM
2 words...John Wall

_KB24_
11-28-2009, 03:42 AM
You can quote me on this, I have a feeling the Nets will win @ home against the Mavs with Harris having a MONSTER game against his former team.

Rico Suave
11-28-2009, 03:44 AM
Lol

theuuord
11-28-2009, 03:44 AM
they're playing for the 2003 1st overall pick lol

lmao

theuuord
11-28-2009, 03:45 AM
Didn't know Harris was injured for so long, that changes things a bit... good to know you don't think Harris was the Nets team's MVP last season though.

I don't know who does, and it's arguable, but most Nets fans would agree that Carter was far and away the team's MVP.

Raph12
11-28-2009, 03:51 AM
I don't know who does, and it's arguable, but most Nets fans would agree that Carter was far and away the team's MVP.

A lot of guys I know thought Harris was running that Nets team and that he was the most valuable player to the team... btw it isn't very arguable IMO.

theuuord
11-28-2009, 03:55 AM
A lot of guys I know thought Harris was running that Nets team and that he was the most valuable player to the team... btw it isn't very arguable IMO.

it is definitely arguable, but i don't agree with it so i won't argue it. besides it's 3 am and i have work to do tomorrow.

Mavrix
11-28-2009, 05:07 AM
You can quote me on this, I have a feeling the Nets will win @ home against the Mavs with Harris having a MONSTER game against his former team.

Do you mind if I put this in my sig after the game?

_KB24_
11-28-2009, 05:18 AM
Do you mind if I put this in my sig after the game?

Nope not all.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-28-2009, 06:10 AM
NJ has a chance to beat the Lakers because kobe has had only bad games against the NETS:hide:

King P
11-28-2009, 12:32 PM
NJ has a chance to beat the Lakers because kobe has had only bad games against the NETS:hide:
Kobe always has bad games against the Nets, but the Lakers always win despite that.

Iodine
11-28-2009, 12:39 PM
All that maters is that they have Jarvis Hayes though

Slimsim
11-28-2009, 12:57 PM
I'm just curious to see which team will lose to them first. It might be LA

KayNti
11-28-2009, 01:21 PM
I think they're waiting until they play the Raps

HoopsDrive
11-28-2009, 01:24 PM
Not only this one but also the record for longest losing streak in the NBA.

Robbw241
11-28-2009, 01:27 PM
We will go 0-20 and then win. I have no idea who the 21st team is but I say thats the way it goes down.

Tom81
11-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Nets will have the worst winless start in NBA History by going 0-18 or worse

Kakaroach
11-28-2009, 01:56 PM
I really hope they win soon cuz this would be a pretty bad record to have. I say they get one before they break the record. A game where Devin Harris goes off for like 40+.

HoopsDrive
11-28-2009, 01:58 PM
El Clasico tomorrow eh? Better be rdy for that yeaaa

JordansBulls
11-28-2009, 02:38 PM
sunday will be a trap game for the lakers. im serious, they better be ready, they're freakin reputation as defending champs is on the freakin line

Lakers could just play the bench and beat the Nets.

sofargone
11-28-2009, 02:58 PM
if they beat the lakers OMG

AllTheWay
11-28-2009, 03:17 PM
especially since he can't spell my name correctly

Ya, but technically your name is theword, and theuuord just looks stupid, so I usually refuse to type it :p

akagiredsuns
11-28-2009, 03:28 PM
as a bulls fan i worry because the bulls will be game #21 for them. but i see the schedule for the nets at LAL, vs DAL, vs CHA, at NY, then at BULLS. i think their first win comes either vs da bobcats or the knicks. LOL now if they beat the Knicks that will be hilarious.

Young and Stupid
11-28-2009, 03:37 PM
Its ironic that the game the Nets can break the record is against J-Kidd the guy who brought the Nets to back-to-back finals. I'll be at the game rockin' my 0-18 shirt. Hopefully we go 0-25 (I think it looks good) then get lucky and get John Wall.

bctgg27
11-28-2009, 03:51 PM
Lamond Murray keeps telling me he can't wait for the Nets to go 0-18. Then he can get his name off the record book. I was really hoping they would beat the Kings. What's worse, is that the 18th game is against the Mavs and Jason Kidd. I would hate to see Kidd be part of the team that gave the Nets the record.

theuuord
11-28-2009, 06:18 PM
Ya, but technically your name is theword, and theuuord just looks stupid, so I usually refuse to type it :p

no, technically my name is theuuord

oh and, um, YOU look stupid.

so there.

theuuord
11-28-2009, 06:19 PM
My favorite part of this entire thing is that if opening night had gone even a fraction differently, we'd be talking about this with the T-Wolves and not the Nets, who I would argue are a far worse team...

sofargone
11-28-2009, 06:20 PM
no, technically my name is theuuord

oh and, um, YOU look stupid.

so there.
/thread

bigsams50
11-28-2009, 06:26 PM
no, technically my name is theuuord

oh and, um, you look stupid.

So there.

pwned

Kyle N.
11-28-2009, 06:33 PM
2 words...John Wall

The Kings last year: "2 words...Blake Griffin"

AllTheWay
11-28-2009, 09:49 PM
no, technically my name is theuuord

oh and, um, YOU look stupid.

so there.

Untechnically it is theword then. You have stated it yourself.

Oh and suck my balls too, danks.

td0tsfinest
11-28-2009, 11:07 PM
how ironic would it be for the nets to be the NBA champions?

HoopsDrive
11-28-2009, 11:11 PM
Don't people love underdogs? Bet there would be a lot of people rooting for the Nets in case of a miraculous comeback to the playoffs...

sofargone
11-28-2009, 11:14 PM
i will leave this site (something probably many of you would enjoy) if the nets make the playoffs

theuuord
11-29-2009, 01:19 AM
Untechnically it is theword then. You have stated it yourself.

Oh and suck my balls too, danks.

damnit, you got me!

i will not suck your balls though
gross

AllTheWay
11-29-2009, 03:08 AM
Aha! I knew I would come out on top eventually. It is inevitable, Meeesssttteerrr Anderson.

And why not? They are very delicious, according to KingBrentG.

Fireworld
11-29-2009, 06:06 AM
anything can happen...

jimm120
11-29-2009, 07:44 AM
the basketball version of the 0 - 16 Detroit Lions....


I still can't believe the Nets are 0 - 16. Even my Knicks are better, which was totally unexpected. The Knicks are 3 - 13 only but they've fought REAL hard against 3 really good teams in games that they could have won (boston, Denver, and someon else...forgot).

MTar786
11-29-2009, 08:38 AM
Do you mind if I put this in my sig after the game?

imagine how bad he'll feel if the nets beat us.. then go on to lose against dallas.. will be a very embarrassing sig for sure lol

MTar786
11-29-2009, 08:38 AM
LA is known for losing against bottom feeders. PLEASE LA DONT LOSE! they wont beat dallas either

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-29-2009, 08:55 AM
Lakers could just play the bench and beat the Nets.

Kidding right???

Our bench is the worst in the league or even in the d-league

arkanian215
11-29-2009, 10:23 AM
0-20. harris has to make layups. guys have to make layups. someone has to support lopez and cdr. rafer has been awful minus the trip dub. hassell is the only bright spot outside of lopez and cdr.

Kakaroach
11-29-2009, 11:42 AM
Good luck against the Nets tonight. I hope this streak doesn't continue any longer.

Team*Chicago
11-29-2009, 05:09 PM
It be funny as hell if they beat the Lakers tonight but I already know that will not happen. They are going to have to face the Timberwolvse again to pick up their first win.

Basel
11-29-2009, 05:53 PM
It be funny as hell if they beat the Lakers tonight but I already know that will not happen. They are going to have to face the Timberwolvse again to pick up their first win.


I would'nt say that. Lakers are playing back to back and they always have a habit of playing down to their competition.


Would'nt shock me if the defending champs lose tonight :facepalm:

ko8e24
11-29-2009, 06:34 PM
I would'nt say that. Lakers are playing back to back and they always have a habit of playing down to their competition.


Would'nt shock me if the defending champs lose tonight :facepalm:

fake laker fan

_KB24_
11-29-2009, 06:55 PM
When do you guys see the Nets winning? I say within the next 3 games they will win a game and SHOCK the world.

greg_ory_2005
11-29-2009, 07:00 PM
When do you guys see the Nets winning? I say within the next 3 games they will win a game and SHOCK the world.

Whenever they face the Wolves, they've got a chance.

Arsenal17
11-29-2009, 07:02 PM
76ers fan here. I would switch positions with the Nets in a heartbeat. Devin Harris and Brook Lopez are 2 great young guys to start a team around. With money to throw around next year they will probably be a contender. 76ers are stuck on being a below average team for the foreseeable future. Especially if we bring A.I back.

rapswin98
11-29-2009, 11:41 PM
Nets 34 Kobe n Pau 33 Lakers 59 at half time

SA5195
11-29-2009, 11:53 PM
I guess John Wall will be wearing a Nets jersey.

Raph12
11-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Looks like they can chalk up loss #17... this one is just about over.

Dmagic87
11-30-2009, 12:03 AM
LOL the Nets could have the biggest franchise turn around next year if their 2010 plan works out...

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-30-2009, 12:19 AM
LOL the Nets could have the biggest franchise turn around next year if their 2010 plan works out...

lol funny sig

HoopsDrive
11-30-2009, 12:20 AM
LOL Wolves beat Nuggets... 2 wins now for them

Ain't looking pretty for the Nets... that record for longest losing streak doesn't seem to unrealistic now...

Burkey3472
11-30-2009, 12:29 AM
I guess John Wall is going to be wearing a Nets jersey next year.

Mauersota
11-30-2009, 12:35 AM
I hope for the Nets sake they win there next game.

Slimsim
11-30-2009, 12:36 AM
I just have a feeling the Nets will get their first win against the Knicks.

_KB24_
11-30-2009, 12:41 AM
Harris goes for 30+ next game.....

sportdoc
11-30-2009, 12:48 AM
That is a beginning but this group of players is not working. After the game tonight, I think we should bring some players which were successful in the Big East like Gerry McNamara and Ronald Ramon among other. call me crazy but those guys must be really hungry and maybe they will bring enough excitement to lift this team out of their worst start ever.

King P
11-30-2009, 01:04 AM
Oh well, I dont care anymore. Just remember, Boston was one of the worst teams in the NBA the year before they won the championship. That could be us next year if we get 1 or 2 huge free agents. Who says we can't do what Boston did?

Mavrix
11-30-2009, 01:52 AM
Dallas is going to destroy the Nets tomorrow sadly.

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 01:58 AM
Dallas is going to destroy the Nets tomorrow sadly.

don't be so overconfident yo, game is in New Jersey, and a wounded animal can strike at any unexpected moment. If Harris gets hot, Lopez gets his 20 and 10 and the role players all of a sudden start making shots that they don't normally make all due to the rowdiness of the crowd, then anything can happen.

be careful, and beware

IversonIsKrazy
11-30-2009, 02:05 AM
after a bit of research, i think Nets will be 0-27, then finally win their first game home against the T'wolves.

29$JerZ
11-30-2009, 02:06 AM
Dallas is going to destroy the Nets tomorrow sadly.


jinx?

Mavrix
11-30-2009, 02:11 AM
don't be so overconfident yo, game is in New Jersey, and a wounded animal can strike at any unexpected moment. If Harris gets hot, Lopez gets his 20 and 10 and the role players all of a sudden start making shots that they don't normally make all due to the rowdiness of the crowd, then anything can happen.

be careful, and beware

Dallas just got embarrassed in Cleveland, theres no way they're going to lose tomorrow's game to be the laughing stock of the NBA. I know my team. 109-92 Dallas.

ko8e24
11-30-2009, 02:13 AM
Dallas just got embarrassed in Cleveland, theres no way they're going to lose tomorrow's game to be the laughing stock of the NBA. I know my team. 109-92 Dallas.

I believe Mavericks play tomorrow night at home against the Philadelphia 76ers, cuz I think the Sixers are doing that Texas 2-step thing. They played @ San Antonio today (and lost), and I think they playing @ Dallas 2maro night. New Jersey I think is a road game for you guys on Tuesday, and it'll be the 2nd game of a back-to-back. Double check that, but I think im right



EDIT: They play the Nets on Wed.

Mavrix
11-30-2009, 02:20 AM
I believe Mavericks play tomorrow night at home against the Philadelphia 76ers, cuz I think the Sixers are doing that Texas 2-step thing. They played @ San Antonio today (and lost), and I think they playing @ Dallas 2maro night. New Jersey I think is a road game for you guys on Tuesday, and it'll be the 2nd game of a back-to-back. Double check that, but I think im right

Yeah you're right I forgot about Philly tomorrow night but still Dallas won't have a problem handeling New Jersey when they know what's on the line. If New Jersey's going to win their first game, it's going to be after breaking the NBA record once it's off their chest.

Mavrix
11-30-2009, 02:22 AM
Harris goes for 30+ next game.....

God i'm in love with your sig.

Jonathan2323
11-30-2009, 02:22 AM
we wouldn't be talking about this if Miami hadn't got lucky with Wade making a last second 3 to beat the Nets. Nets might go 0-30+

GoatMilk
11-30-2009, 02:40 AM
they'll beat the Mavs for sure

Mavrix
11-30-2009, 02:47 AM
they'll beat the Mavs for sure

lolol

LA_Raiders
11-30-2009, 03:10 AM
Well, at least they will be the most improved team ever next year when they get CryBron.

Raph12
11-30-2009, 12:44 PM
Well, at least they will be the most improved team ever next year when they get CryBron.

And if they get the #1 pick in the draft...

PG - John Wall
SG - Devin Harris
SF - Lebron James
PF - Yi JianLian
C - Brook Lopez

That is a pretty damn good team, keep in mind, Wall or Harris can always be traded for a star two-guard.

arkanian215
11-30-2009, 12:56 PM
we only got 25% chance of getting the top pick. there's still a chance we dont get the worst record. (i dont mind getting the worst record though) minny has by far the worst margin. they just got their second win last night. their first win was a buzzer beater against the nets.

MaHaRaJaH
11-30-2009, 01:33 PM
they most likely will lose the next game against the lakers

but wouldnt it be funny if they won

High-larious

ElMarroAfamado
11-30-2009, 02:10 PM
the mavs better now blow it

JordansBulls
11-30-2009, 06:12 PM
Mavs already lost to Golden State overlooking them, they can't afford to overlook another team this bad now.

JKiddFan4Life
11-30-2009, 07:04 PM
Mavs already lost to Golden State overlooking them, they can't afford to overlook another team this bad now.
I agree completely, records aside you can never underestimate your opponent. The GS game, if you listen to Monta Ellis, was essentially won before the game even started. They knew we had no shot blockers and could attack the rim at will. We absolutely underestimated them. We have to respect the Nets and any other opponent we face. This is the NBA, after all, every team has talent, and with every loss, this Nets team is getting hungrier for a win. The worst team can still upset the best team on any given night!

Robbw241
11-30-2009, 07:05 PM
And to think we had an 18 point lead against the Wolves on opening night :(

JWO35
11-30-2009, 08:01 PM
0-82

AntwanN21
11-30-2009, 08:53 PM
this can't go on for much longer, players will start to come out with an edge the next game. I think they are playing the mavs. Thought the mavs are strong anything can happen. the twolves just beat the nuggets last night. Im not confident the nets will will but if lopez can hold his own against dirk and the bench along with harris steps up it should be fun to wathc

HoopsDrive
11-30-2009, 09:13 PM
0-82

+1

jimm120
11-30-2009, 09:17 PM
LOL the Nets could have the biggest franchise turn around next year if their 2010 plan works out...


lol funny sig

OMG!!!! You're right! That sig is extremely funny!

Now, THAT is a "bad boy" team.

heathonater
11-30-2009, 09:23 PM
why would lebron sign with an 0-17 team?

SaimoNETS
11-30-2009, 10:10 PM
Around this time last year, the Thunder only had 2 WINS. And now, they're one of the most talented young teams in the league and is in playoff contention.
With that being said, I'm not worried.

dodie53
11-30-2009, 10:46 PM
i feel sad for the nets

i think they will go for
0-20

King P
12-01-2009, 12:28 AM
why would lebron sign with an 0-17 team?
because Lebron could turned them into a contender. kinda like he did with the Cavs, who were once the worst team in the NBA, which is how they got Lebron in the 1st place.

vash9
12-01-2009, 12:36 AM
Yeah. I mean think about it. a 0-17 rebuilding team, in dire need of another great player. Moving to Brooklyn. Who saves the Nets?

Lebron James. Pretty simple.

Oh, and this is an interesting link. I talk basketball with a die hard Mavericks fan who is a good friend of mine. He gave me this link to read. I found it hilarious.



http://dallasbasketballdotcom.yuku.com/topic/34594/t/New-Jersey--win---game--year--Dallas--Wednesday.html

Mavrix
12-02-2009, 10:19 PM
You can quote me on this, I have a feeling the Nets will win @ home against the Mavs with Harris having a MONSTER game against his former team.

This is going in my sig LOL

Vinny642
12-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Nets just unbelievably suck, seriously Dallas is spanking them around like they are a JV Girls basketball team.

HoopsDrive
12-02-2009, 10:22 PM
0-25 longest losing streak in the NBA. Go for it Nets woohoo

theuuord
12-02-2009, 10:26 PM
it's crazy, because the nets have actually had an above-average defense for most of the season. and now the one game they play better than bottom-feeding offensively they get absolutely slashed apart on the other end.

ah well. at least we own a record!

Mavrix
12-02-2009, 10:30 PM
I'm pretty sure Mavs will play all bench players for the rest of the game being up 23 with 8 minutes to play.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 10:49 PM
history is about to be made in less than 5 min

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 10:51 PM
2009-2010 New Jersey Nets

NBA HISTORY: 0-18 to the start of a regular season. (RECORD)

theuuord
12-02-2009, 10:52 PM
i'm personally ready for the john wall era.

ko8e24
12-02-2009, 10:54 PM
i'm personally ready for the john wall era.

lol

yall prolly said the same thing in the summer of 2000 about Kenyon Martin :rolleyes:




(sorry couldnt resist)

theuuord
12-02-2009, 10:56 PM
lol

yall prolly said the same thing in the summer of 2000 about Kenyon Martin :rolleyes:




(sorry couldnt resist)

lol if john wall ends up being as good or worse than kenyon martin i swear to god...

sofargone
12-02-2009, 10:57 PM
lol

yall prolly said the same thing in the summer of 2000 about Kenyon Martin :rolleyes:




(sorry couldnt resist)

how many times did they get to the finals with him?

ink
12-02-2009, 11:09 PM
Well they went 0-18 so I guess that's the answer to this thread.

Here's a new one - http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431627