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ko8e24
11-26-2009, 04:49 AM
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/bryant-believes-knicks-will-get-a-star-just-not-him/

November 25, 2009, 9:26 am
Bryant Believes Knicks Will Get a Star, Just Not Him
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
LOS ANGELES — Kobe Bryant has avoided discussion of free agency in 2010, saying he will not discuss scenarios hypothetically.

Bubbling below the LeBron James bonanza is the notion that Bryant, too, can become a free agent. Few expect him to leave the Los Angeles Lakers and Bryant and his agent Rob Pelinka say they are working toward a contract extension. With few sound bites from either of them, reporters have mostly left the topic alone.

When nudged on the issue by New York reporters, Bryant touched briefly on the topic regarding his Olympic teammates James and Dwyane Wade, while removing himself from the discussion.

“It’ll be interesting,” Bryant said after the Lakers beat the Knicks, 100-90, Tuesday. “It’ll be interesting. I know those guys want to sit back and see their options. New York will definitely be one of the options. Whether they go or not, I don’t know.”

Bryant said he believed New York has never had one of the league’s most notable players, like Bryant, James, or Michael Jordan. (Bryant seems to count Hall of Famers like Walt Frazer, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Patrick Ewing as role players). They may land a player of Bryant’s caliber next summer. It just won’t be him.

“It’ll make a difference,” Bryant said. “That city has never had that. They’ve never had a flashy or marquee guy. If you look back to the years that they won championships, it’s always been a team effort. They never had a star, so this will be the first time they’ve had one of those guys.”

NPH
11-26-2009, 05:02 AM
WoW!

Iodine
11-26-2009, 05:10 AM
You know you fail to know the history of the game when your coach got some rings on those knicks teams that won some jewlery. I cant wait for Kobe to define marquee as a shooting guard who leads the team in points

ESaady
11-26-2009, 05:17 AM
I could have sworn that that any championship wins are due to team efforts.

GREATNESS ONE
11-26-2009, 05:18 AM
So when he said it he said Flash or Marquee? Right? Well I kinda tend to agree. NY is a Giant Market who has yet to have that player that defines that franchise. Yes there have been alot of Great who came from NY. NY deserves a Marquee player.

ko8e24
11-26-2009, 05:22 AM
basically, hes saying that they've never had that kobe, lebron, mj, wade type of player. like yes, they've had willis reed, clyde frazier, earl monroe, bernard king, patrick ewing, but those guys were not like the best of their generation, much less top 5 of their generation.

GREATNESS ONE
11-26-2009, 05:24 AM
^ exactly

ESaady
11-26-2009, 05:30 AM
Actually yeah, for a big market team that's surprising, and there are several of teams who have also never really had a marquee player, but for NY it's kinda weird.

We all get to see how marquee players perform in New York when it comes to baseball and football, seeing it in basketball would be kind of cool.

rocky4104
11-26-2009, 05:38 AM
http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/bryant-believes-knicks-will-get-a-star-just-not-him/

November 25, 2009, 9:26 am
Bryant Believes Knicks Will Get a Star, Just Not Him
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
LOS ANGELES — Kobe Bryant has avoided discussion of free agency in 2010, saying he will not discuss scenarios hypothetically.

Bubbling below the LeBron James bonanza is the notion that Bryant, too, can become a free agent. Few expect him to leave the Los Angeles Lakers and Bryant and his agent Rob Pelinka say they are working toward a contract extension. With few sound bites from either of them, reporters have mostly left the topic alone.

When nudged on the issue by New York reporters, Bryant touched briefly on the topic regarding his Olympic teammates James and Dwyane Wade, while removing himself from the discussion.

“It’ll be interesting,” Bryant said after the Lakers beat the Knicks, 100-90, Tuesday. “It’ll be interesting. I know those guys want to sit back and see their options. New York will definitely be one of the options. Whether they go or not, I don’t know.”

Bryant said he believed New York has never had one of the league’s most notable players, like Bryant, James, or Michael Jordan. (Bryant seems to count Hall of Famers like Walt Frazer, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Patrick Ewing as role players). They may land a player of Bryant’s caliber next summer. It just won’t be him.

“It’ll make a difference,” Bryant said. “That city has never had that. They’ve never had a flashy or marquee guy. If you look back to the years that they won championships, it’s always been a team effort. They never had a star, so this will be the first time they’ve had one of those guys.”

not hating but correct me if i'm wrong - seems like he's saying its better to get a marquee player than win a championship through team effort

ko8e24
11-26-2009, 05:45 AM
not hating but correct me if i'm wrong - seems like he's saying its better to get a marquee player than win a championship through team effort

no, its like....

u know the 04 pistons (no one particular star) ???

well he's saying that those championship knicks of the 70s were like those pistons.


now those type of championship teams are different from a championship team where the team is damn good, but the superstar really sticks out, like Magic and the Lakers, Bird and the Celtics, Isaiah and the Pistons, MJ and the Bulls, Hakeem and the Rockets, Duncan and the Spurs, Shaq and the Lakers, Kobe and the Lakers, Wade and the Heat etc. etc.

rocky4104
11-26-2009, 05:53 AM
no, its like....

u know the 04 pistons (no one particular star) ???

well he's saying that those championship knicks of the 70s were like those pistons.


now those type of championship teams are different from a championship team where the team is damn good, but the superstar really sticks out, like Magic and the Lakers, Bird and the Celtics, Isaiah and the Pistons, MJ and the Bulls, Hakeem and the Rockets, Duncan and the Spurs, Shaq and the Lakers, Kobe and the Lakers, Wade and the Heat etc. etc.

ok. thanks. all i was saying is nothing's wrong with that- as long as you win the ring.

kinda funny though huh? NY being regarded as a basketball mecca and yet not having a superstar like MJ, or kobe playing for them. even those players are saying they love playing in the garden! probably spike lee's fault lol

GoatMilk
11-26-2009, 05:59 AM
BK was fire

jd_azsportsfan
11-26-2009, 06:34 AM
why am i supoose to care what kobe thinks

GspLAL
11-26-2009, 07:46 AM
why am i supoose to care what kobe thinks

You're not, that's why you don't click the thread and make comments like this.

GspLAL
11-26-2009, 07:46 AM
why am i supoose to care what kobe thinks

You're not, that's why you don't click the thread and make comments like this. :rolleyes:

Diewitdaknicks
11-26-2009, 08:23 AM
NY = help wanted!!!!!!!!!!

SchyGuy11
11-26-2009, 09:19 AM
ummmmm i guess Kobe has never heard of a man by the name of Eddy Curry then.......

todu82
11-26-2009, 09:37 AM
Kobe's a great basketball player and whatever but these comments are out there. Patrick Ewing, Walt Frazier and Willis Reed where all elite players.

jetsfan28
11-26-2009, 09:38 AM
Marquee guy (http://nicekicks.com/files/2009/06/clyde-header-ii2.jpg)

sintaks12
11-26-2009, 10:02 AM
basically, hes saying that they've never had that kobe, lebron, mj, wade type of player. like yes, they've had willis reed, clyde frazier, earl monroe, bernard king, patrick ewing, but those guys were not like the best of their generation, much less top 5 of their generation.

Sorry dude. Patrick Ewing was... like... a top 5 center of his generation and a marquee player. Kobe needs to put down the pipe.

JordansBulls
11-26-2009, 10:06 AM
Obviously he doesn't know what he is talking about. Patrick Ewing was a marquee player. Bernard King was a marquee player. Walt Frazier was a marquee player. Willis Reed was a marquee player.

mjt20mik
11-26-2009, 10:09 AM
Obviously he doesn't know what he is talking about. Patrick Ewing was a marquee player. Bernard King was a marquee player. Walt Frazier was a marquee player. Willis Reed was a marquee player.

+1

I don't understand how he could call them role players. Most of them are Hall of Famers.

jimm120
11-26-2009, 10:37 AM
Obviously he doesn't know what he is talking about. Patrick Ewing was a marquee player. Bernard King was a marquee player. Walt Frazier was a marquee player. Willis Reed was a marquee player.


+1

I don't understand how he could call them role players. Most of them are Hall of Famers.

Exactly. Its crazy!

Patrick Ewing not marquee?!?!...dude, he had Micheal friggin', sucky, Jordan to deal with EVERY friggin year!. Jordan sucks but man, we all know he was the #1 player ever...ever. Ewing had to deal with that every year. I know that the Knicks would have won at least 2 rings if Jordan never came to the league.

Who was better than Ewing during the 90's?

David Robinson is debatable. I feel Ewing was better because of a better offensive game and an almost equal defense (which was spectacular).

Oneal? Yeah, Oneal was better...after the 98 season or so, when Ewing was already on his way down. But not before that.

Hakeem? Yeah, he'd be ranked ahead of Ewing but I always liked Ewing's offensive game more than Hakeem's.


How is Ewing not a marquee guy!

This is the problem with Kobe and Oneal. He most probably didn't consider Oneal a "Marquee" guy....when everybody Knows that Oneal was better. Oneal, without Kobe, got a ring. Kobe, to get another ring, had to do some HAXS to get Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol (cause honestly, 2 #28/29 picks are NOTHING).

Hell, its like he's trying to equate that someone like Ewing is like Pau Gasol, someone who tried to be the "franchise guy" but ended up failing and had to become a #1 support. Sorry, I don't think ANYONE could have gone to NY and made Ewing be the #1 support (not the #1 option).

Drunk Kosar 19
11-26-2009, 11:01 AM
what about larry hughes?

Ragun
11-26-2009, 11:06 AM
king and frazier?

#1Mavericksfan
11-26-2009, 11:11 AM
Patrick Ewing

Ray_R
11-26-2009, 11:14 AM
basically, hes saying that they've never had that kobe, lebron, mj, wade type of player. like yes, they've had willis reed, clyde frazier, earl monroe, bernard king, patrick ewing, but those guys were not like the best of their generation, much less top 5 of their generation.

i wasnt sure what to think about this but these put me right where i needed to be.:clap:

Young and Stupid
11-26-2009, 11:28 AM
Kobe's lack of basketball knowledge is really mindboggling, I mean off the top of my head I can name at least 5 "marquee" players that the Knicks have had in recent memory: Steve Francis, Eddy Curry, Larry Hughes, Jared Jeffries and of course who could forget the GOAT Jerome James....

fredv
11-26-2009, 11:32 AM
Thats because they suck at drafting players... Ding dong Jennings!

29$JerZ
11-26-2009, 11:40 AM
Thats because they suck at drafting players... Ding dong Jennings!

If anyone messed up in the draft it's Minny

Rubio and Flynn vs. BJ :p

Hill is looking great when he is in the game, held his own against the Lakers front court. Guy's going to be a beast, just needs to stop being like Oden and fouling out because he thinks every shot is blockable.

TheHoopsProphet
11-26-2009, 11:45 AM
Patrick Ewing was never a no.1 guy for a championship team, even though the Knicks and all their fans were trying to make him that way. Benard King was a great scorer, but not much else. And Willis Reed is more famous for his broken leg come back during the Finals than his whole career. Marquee means top 3-5 player in the entire NBA in my opinion, and apparently in Kobe's too. And if that's the case, then yea, the knicks never had a top 3-5 player in the league at any point in their franchise.

90s
1) Michael Jordan
2) Karl Malone
3) Hakeem the Dream
4) Charles Barkley
5) Gary Payton

80s
1) Magic Johnson
2) Larry Bird
3) Isiah Thomas
4) Moses Malone
5) Kareem

70s
1) Kareem
2) Dr. J
3) Bill Walton
4) Dave Cowens
5) Tiny Archibald

60s
1) Bill Russell
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Oscar Robertson
4) Jerry West
5) Elgin Baylor

knickerbockerny
11-26-2009, 11:56 AM
All I know is that Hell is going to burn over in New York if we don't sign that "Marquee Guy" next year. This team is abismol, every game but three we have been down 20pts.

GodsSon
11-26-2009, 12:22 PM
i dunno, Earl the Pearl was pretty damn good in his day, as was Clyde

OA SLAY
11-26-2009, 12:23 PM
:mad: Dumb comments! What about Keith VanHorn.

DallasMavsGuy
11-26-2009, 12:57 PM
ummmmm i guess Kobe has never heard of a man by the name of Eddy Curry then.......

well if he hasn't then he's not the type of player Kobe was talking about.

HoopsDrive
11-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Wth is Kobe talking about? They have Duhon, the greatest player to ever wear the Knicks jersey.

Kakaroach
11-26-2009, 01:42 PM
Wow what an unintelligent statement. Guess someone has never heard of Patrick Ewing.

ny212
11-26-2009, 01:59 PM
omg how is everyone forgetting CHRIS F-CKING DUDLEY that guy was a beast.

Deezy Dee 24.
11-26-2009, 01:59 PM
Kobe Kobe Kobe:bs:

jimm120
11-26-2009, 02:00 PM
Patrick Ewing was never a no.1 guy for a championship team, even though the Knicks and all their fans were trying to make him that way. Benard King was a great scorer, but not much else. And Willis Reed is more famous for his broken leg come back during the Finals than his whole career. Marquee means top 3-5 player in the entire NBA in my opinion, and apparently in Kobe's too. And if that's the case, then yea, the knicks never had a top 3-5 player in the league at any point in their franchise.

90s
1) Michael Jordan
2) Karl Malone
3) Hakeem the Dream
4) Charles Barkley
5) Gary Payton


WHAT!?!? You're putting Barkley and Payton ahead of Ewing?!? I'm a HUGE Payton fan and he IS my favorite PG, but better than Ewing? I never thought of him as better.

I understand MJ and Malone. Hakeem wasn't better than Ewing but he was... Barkley? I definitely question that one. Ewing was better than Brakley.

Deezy Dee 24.
11-26-2009, 02:04 PM
I flatout can't stand Barkley not as a player but as a announcer

Boston Faithful
11-26-2009, 02:18 PM
Wow, I can't believe some ******** Kobe-bandwagoners are agreeing with this statement.

Patrick Ewing was a legend. He was top 5 of his generation. Willis Reed and Walt Frazier? Are you kidding?

Kobe's such a *****.

abe_froman
11-26-2009, 02:24 PM
no, its like....

u know the 04 pistons (no one particular star) ???

well he's saying that those championship knicks of the 70s were like those pistons.


now those type of championship teams are different from a championship team where the team is damn good, but the superstar really sticks out, like Magic and the Lakers, Bird and the Celtics, Isaiah and the Pistons, MJ and the Bulls, Hakeem and the Rockets, Duncan and the Spurs, Shaq and the Lakers, Kobe and the Lakers, Wade and the Heat etc. etc.

he's wrong though because those teams were never like the 04 pistons,they were like the celtics(a collection of stars/former stars with a few role guys thrown in)

Lindystud36
11-26-2009, 02:32 PM
New York will sign Joe Johnson, Amare, and rudy gay this off season, then try and find a point guart somewhere, they should probably clear house for monta ellis.

m26555
11-26-2009, 02:34 PM
basically, hes saying that they've never had that kobe, lebron, mj, wade type of player. like yes, they've had willis reed, clyde frazier, earl monroe, bernard king, patrick ewing, but those guys were not like the best of their generation, much less top 5 of their generation.
I think you're SEVERELY underestimating Walt Frazier. Ewing, too.

shep33
11-26-2009, 02:35 PM
He's actually right, the biggest name they've had in the past 30 years was Pat. Frazier and Reed we're legends for the knicks, but they weren't the best in the game at the time. It's surprising that they've never had that "superstar guy", this team has always been a hardnosed, teamwork, type of franchise. In a way its kinda cool, i love guys like Starks, Oak, Mason, Spree, LJ, etc. But at the same time, other big city teams like LA or Boston have had some ridiculous players.


Boston

Russell
Bird
McHale
Cousy

LA

West
Wilt
Shaq
Magic
Worthy
Kobe
Baylor

But the knicks aren't really known for that... maybe their top 5 in Franchise history is like this (no order):

Ewing
Reed
Frazier
Dave DeBusschere
Willis

maybe Monroe

I mean all are great, but in comparison to other teams, its pretty astonishing that they don't really have a bunch of greats. Either way, still a great franchise... maybe not in the last decade, but still probably my favorite team of all-time is that '99 Knicks team with Spree, Houston,LJ, Camby, Ewing (injured), Charlie, Chris Childs. All heart.

abe_froman
11-26-2009, 02:38 PM
WHAT!?!? You're putting Barkley and Payton ahead of Ewing?!? I'm a HUGE Payton fan and he IS my favorite PG, but better than Ewing? I never thought of him as better.

I understand MJ and Malone. Hakeem wasn't better than Ewing but he was... Barkley? I definitely question that one. Ewing was better than Brakley.

disagree, barkley was better than pat

cheesy poofs
11-26-2009, 02:39 PM
Ewing was so overrated - his career playoff TS% was 51.7% which is horrible, especially for a center (league avg is about 54%). He never made his teammates better (his passing statistics are horrible). Basically a rich mans center version of Zach Randolph.
Barkley? I definitely question that one. Ewing was better than Brakley.no way. if you check the advanced stats, you'll see just how great Barkley was. His TS% was a CAREER 61.2% - Ewing hasn't ever topped that in a season. Barkley's rebounding rate is 18.2% vs Ewing's 16.4% and keep in mind that the avg Centers rate is much higher than a PF (if the %'s were reversed Barkley could still be considered a better rebounder - the fact that Barkley dwarfs Ewing by almost 2% is mind boggling). Barkley's assist % is 17.5% vs Ewing's no passing 9.8% assist %. The only area Ewing beats Barkley is in shot-blocking. Barkley's offensive rating crushes Ewing's by 13 points and his defensive rating is only 6 point worse despite playing a less important position defensively. The capper, Barkley performed in the playoffs - Ewing choked. The stats show as much.

(all stats via basketball-reference.com)

SB75
11-26-2009, 02:59 PM
Just Kobe being Kobe...... I don't think much about anything he says.

arkanian215
11-26-2009, 04:02 PM
lol what propels this guy to talk?

albertc86
11-26-2009, 04:42 PM
not hating but correct me if i'm wrong - seems like he's saying its better to get a marquee player than win a championship through team effort

You're wrong.

roshan3ai
11-26-2009, 04:51 PM
I'm pretty sure that Jerome James is a marquee player :shrug:

HandslikeCarter
11-26-2009, 05:15 PM
Dumb of course those are Marquee players anytime a team wins rings, their Marquee players. This is just haten on big men, his logic dictates KG was never a marquee player. Come on KG is The Big Ticket

ko8e24
11-26-2009, 05:19 PM
lol what propels this guy to talk?

maybe cuz he currently the best of the best of the best of the best and a top 10 player of all time??

he'z the black mamba, and guys like him, shaq, kg, duncan, j-kidd, nash etc. can say wutever the hell they wanna. they are currently the elderstatemen of this league and each and everyone of of them knows their nba history, and have carried the torch in their respective positions (pg, sg, sf, pf, c) for a decade or so.

u must bow down to the current pioneers of this league yo!

ko8e24
11-26-2009, 05:21 PM
Dumb of course those are Marquee players anytime a team wins rings, their Marquee players. This is just haten on big men, his logic dictates KG was never a marquee player. Come on KG is The Big Ticket

:confused: wut are u on, lemme have some of that.


he aint talkin bout kg. lol, he was never on the knicks

y u talkin bout kg?

bigsams50
11-26-2009, 05:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that Jerome James is a marquee player :shrug:

I was thinking eddy curry or chris duhon

JordansBulls
11-26-2009, 05:32 PM
He's actually right, the biggest name they've had in the past 30 years was Pat. Frazier and Reed we're legends for the knicks, but they weren't the best in the game at the time. It's surprising that they've never had that "superstar guy", this team has always been a hardnosed, teamwork, type of franchise. In a way its kinda cool, i love guys like Starks, Oak, Mason, Spree, LJ, etc. But at the same time, other big city teams like LA or Boston have had some ridiculous players.


Boston

Russell
Bird
McHale
Cousy

LA

West
Wilt
Shaq
Magic
Worthy
Kobe
Baylor

But the knicks aren't really known for that... maybe their top 5 in Franchise history is like this (no order):

Ewing
Reed
Frazier
Dave DeBusschere
Willis

maybe Monroe

I mean all are great, but in comparison to other teams, its pretty astonishing that they don't really have a bunch of greats. Either way, still a great franchise... maybe not in the last decade, but still probably my favorite team of all-time is that '99 Knicks team with Spree, Houston,LJ, Camby, Ewing (injured), Charlie, Chris Childs. All heart.


There is no way that Cousy was a marquee player over someone like Frazier, Reed or Ewing.

abe_froman
11-26-2009, 06:18 PM
There is no way that Cousy was a marquee player over someone like Frazier, Reed or Ewing.

hell yeah he is/was.

how can you say that??

HoopsDrive
11-26-2009, 06:19 PM
I was thinking eddy curry or chris duhon

He gonna be MVP next season.

arkanian215
11-26-2009, 06:28 PM
maybe cuz he currently the best of the best of the best of the best and a top 10 player of all time??

he'z the black mamba, and guys like him, shaq, kg, duncan, j-kidd, nash etc. can say wutever the hell they wanna. they are currently the elderstatemen of this league and each and everyone of of them knows their nba history, and have carried the torch in their respective positions (pg, sg, sf, pf, c) for a decade or so.

u must bow down to the current pioneers of this league yo!

nah lol. these athletes are a joke. i guess i should expect this from them.

Kakaroach
11-26-2009, 06:32 PM
maybe cuz he currently the best of the best of the best of the best and a top 10 player of all time??

he'z the black mamba, and guys like him, shaq, kg, duncan, j-kidd, nash etc. can say wutever the hell they wanna. they are currently the elderstatemen of this league and each and everyone of of them knows their nba history, and have carried the torch in their respective positions (pg, sg, sf, pf, c) for a decade or so.

u must bow down to the current pioneers of this league yo! They can say whatever they wanna? Uh sure, but he doesn't know his NBA history if he doesn't think Ewing is a marquee player. For anyone to actually back this is surprising, even the biggest Kobe homers.

Highlight
11-26-2009, 06:48 PM
The question is. What does Marquee mean in Kobe's mind?

People have different definitions for different words. For all we know, Marquee to him could mean top 3 in the league...

I think we can all agree on this simple fact: New York has never had a player as good as Wade or Lebron. I think that's what Kobe is referring to most, but even I don't know.

No one on this board knows what the hell Kobe's point was, so I don't understand all the bashing. All I know is he obviously has good intentions because he's saying New York could use a Lebron or Wade, which everyone in New York could agree with.

jets-24
11-26-2009, 06:51 PM
thats a very disrespectful commment by kobe.....the knicks never had a marquee guy are u kidding me ...

kblo247
11-26-2009, 09:59 PM
Kobe spoke the truth.

New York has had all star players and even hall of famers, but they haven't had a superstar who defines an era or just needs to be seen and has to be respected whether you love or hate them.

A marquee player would be Wilt, Russel, Mikan, West, Magic, Kareem, Bird, MJ, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, Dr. J, Reggie, Hakeem, Moses, T-Mac in Orlando, Vince in Toronto, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, KG, Wade, Kidd, and Lebron.

People have flocked from across the world to see them and watched/dissected their every move.

Ewing, Frazier, Willis, and Reed not so much as they simply weren't ground breaking superstars who you break bank to see, and none of them defined the era that they played in anyway, shape, or form. They were a bunch of Scottie Pippens, Grant Hills, and David Robinsons instead of bad *** living legends. In fact none of them were considered as being close to the best of their era.

He gave Frazier and Willis due credit when he said they won as a team because he is on record saying it takes the contributions of a team to win when he said he and Shaq never win 3 without Fish, Fox, Horry, and Shaw every year.

The Knicks won the same way the Pistons did with a group of all star effort and team work, not with a player simply imposing themselves and their individual will on them when the team as a whole needed that boost to get over that hump.

No disrespect what so ever, he simply didn't beat around the bush or kiss any *** like some would have preferred when it comes to what some like to call the flagship franchise despite them not being a historical winning one.

--

For those who have further questions of "marquee", during the Kwame/Smush years the Lakers still were one of the top road, home, and tv draws in the NBA bar none. In fact the franchise actually made even more money selling just Kobe by himself and according to Forbes from a year or so ago he is the most profitable and marketable player that the Lakers have ever had, which goes for the league as well.

Marquee = putting ***** in seat during tough times, being a defining characteristic of your era, and being discussed as one of the best to ever play, let alone in the top top two or three of your time.

What he says will hold true if they bring in Joe Johnson, Amare, and/or Bosh instead of Wade and/or Lebron.

ko8e24
11-26-2009, 10:55 PM
The question is. What does Marquee mean in Kobe's mind?

People have different definitions for different words. For all we know, Marquee to him could mean top 3 in the league...

I think we can all agree on this simple fact: New York has never had a player as good as Wade or Lebron. I think that's what Kobe is referring to most, but even I don't know.

No one on this board knows what the hell Kobe's point was, so I don't understand all the bashing. All I know is he obviously has good intentions because he's saying New York could use a Lebron or Wade, which everyone in New York could agree with.

prolly someone whos a top 5 player in the league, and someone that the nba can make bazillion dollars off of. Ewing is a HOF, but not that "marquee" guy for a big market like New York. lol, he's not tryin to dis any of the former knicks players. we're talking about icons (marquee) here, not just hall of famers.

Evolution23
11-26-2009, 11:16 PM
The players like Ewing, Frazier, Reed were superstars but they were not as good as MJ, Kobe, Lebron.. These guys could carry their teams on any given night but even they cannot win championships by themselves. That is the reason Ewing never won a ring because the Knicks never had a second go to guy. Make no mistake about it, Ewing was a superstar, give him a Chris Paul type PG, and the Knicks would have won a couple of rings.

JnasD
11-26-2009, 11:18 PM
It sounds like Kobe is saying that it takes only a superstar to win a championship. I don't agree with what he said as a Knick Fan. Playing with great effort and teamwork helps wins championships.

kblo247
11-26-2009, 11:22 PM
I'm not saying Ewing was a role player or wasn't one of the best at his position.

He was one of the best centers there were during the 90s but he was hardly considered as being the best guy of his era as he was behind MJ, Reggie, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Penny, Shaq, Hakeem, and so on thus not making him an icon which is what I thin kKobe meant by marquee.

For an analogy, I'm sure we have all seen wrestling at one time or another.

A marquee talent would be - Hulk Hogan, Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin
A star and main event talent/world champ would be - Chris Jericho, Mick Foley

Ewing and the other top Knicks are in the second category much like James Worthy and Mchale were

--

He never said it takes only a superstar to win a title he said they won completely as a team which means they were far more balanced with their contributions, than a group who relies on a 1 or 2 generals to lead his capable troops into war as opposed to how he, MJ, Bird, San Antonio, and Showtime won them in the past.

bal_ravens
11-26-2009, 11:37 PM
11x NBA All Star, roughly 24ppg, 10 rpg while with the Knicks and not a marquee player?

kblo247
11-26-2009, 11:39 PM
It comes down to these 2 questions:

Did Ewing transcend his sport to the point he was known by even non-basketball followers around the world?

Can you or anyone else honestly say Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, or Patrick Ewing are in the in the conversation for being even the top 3 Center, Power Forward or Point Guard of all time?

JnasD
11-26-2009, 11:47 PM
Ewing was great it was just too bad MJ was playing us alot in the 90s during the playoffs. I really hope next season The Knicks get a great player. I could see us getting a Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh, or Amare Stoudemire.

kblo247
11-26-2009, 11:53 PM
Yes, Ewing was great but he and no Kinick aren't even top 25 in history and Joe/Amare/Bosh all are not marquee or main attraction type players.


Jordan
Wilt
KAJ
Hakeem
Oscar
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Moses
Mikan
DRob
Russell
Barkley
Karl Malone
Erving
Havlicek
West
Gervin
Cousy
Stockton
Isiah
Iverson

He and they are more so in the 26 and below range which is still great but not at the elitist of elite levels

Monroe
Thurmond
Pippen
McHale
Baylor
Barry
Bill Walton
Petit
Goodrich

Rico Suave
11-27-2009, 12:01 AM
basically, hes saying that they've never had that kobe, lebron, mj, wade type of player. like yes, they've had willis reed, clyde frazier, earl monroe, bernard king, patrick ewing, but those guys were not like the best of their generation, much less top 5 of their generation.

Is a TOP 5 SG of all time...

JnasD
11-27-2009, 12:02 AM
That is a great list. Ewing was as good as Barkley.

Raiderwood
11-27-2009, 12:23 AM
Totally disagree..Ewing was a marquee guy that didnt have the reliable 2nd and 3rd option. MJ didnt win until he had it, same with Kobe. The jury is stillout on LBJ. Ewing's closest to the championship was with Starks and Mase, and they started out in the developmental league...hardly a real option....

Typical revisionist history by a player who wasnt around when some of the greats played..I would like to see Patrick play center now, without the Hakeems of the world to go against. Kobe is one of the best to play the game but way off here

Jaji
11-27-2009, 12:25 AM
Patrick Ewing was never a no.1 guy for a championship team, even though the Knicks and all their fans were trying to make him that way. Benard King was a great scorer, but not much else. And Willis Reed is more famous for his broken leg come back during the Finals than his whole career. Marquee means top 3-5 player in the entire NBA in my opinion, and apparently in Kobe's too. And if that's the case, then yea, the knicks never had a top 3-5 player in the league at any point in their franchise.

90s
1) Michael Jordan
2) Karl Malone
3) Hakeem the Dream
4) Charles Barkley
5) Gary Payton

Ewing didn't have a title because of a guy named Mike and another guy named Hakeem. GP was "marquee" and Ewing wasn't? And Olajuwon is ahead of Malone too. God thing this isn't an "official" list and just some guy's opinion.

arkanian215
11-27-2009, 12:51 AM
The players like Ewing, Frazier, Reed were superstars but they were not as good as MJ, Kobe, Lebron.. These guys could carry their teams on any given night but even they cannot win championships by themselves. That is the reason Ewing never won a ring because the Knicks never had a second go to guy. Make no mistake about it, Ewing was a superstar, give him a Chris Paul type PG, and the Knicks would have won a couple of rings.

MJ had pippen? Kobe had all stars on his team. Lebron hasnt won one yet.

IMo no one can win one by themselves. can you really say MJ, Lebron, and Kobe have no supporting cast?

kblo247
11-27-2009, 12:54 AM
Totally disagree..Ewing was a marquee guy that didnt have the reliable 2nd and 3rd option. MJ didnt win until he had it, same with Kobe. The jury is stillout on LBJ. Ewing's closest to the championship was with Starks and Mase, and they started out in the developmental league...hardly a real option....

Typical revisionist history by a player who wasnt around when some of the greats played..I would like to see Patrick play center now, without the Hakeems of the world to go against. Kobe is one of the best to play the game but way off here

Last time I checked Kobe came in the league in 96-97 and played Ewing, Barkley, Pippen, Jordan, and all of the 90s greats. In fact in 98 he was an All Star standing right beside them.

He also played when hand checking was allowed and zone wasn't and then when zone was allowed and hand checking was banned.

Ewing didn't make people around the world buy his stuff, stay in awe of him, turn on their TV to watch him, sell out on the road night in and night out, and he ultimately wasn't even treated like a marquee guy by his own team or fans.

kblo247
11-27-2009, 12:58 AM
Ewing didn't have a title because of a guy named Mike and another guy named Hakeem. GP was "marquee" and Ewing wasn't? And Olajuwon is ahead of Malone too. God thing this isn't an "official" list and just some guy's opinion.

The Glove was the best defender of his era sans Pippen and seen as a PG who was only behind Stockton so yes he was a bigger star than Ewing.

You all act like where you play makes you a mega star, but actually how transcendent and great you are should also be taken into account.

Ewing was great, but he was never transcendent outside of NYC which is Kobe's point in a nut shell.

PLAYERS FAN
11-27-2009, 01:05 AM
Patrick Ewing was never a no.1 guy for a championship team, even though the Knicks and all their fans were trying to make him that way. Benard King was a great scorer, but not much else. And Willis Reed is more famous for his broken leg come back during the Finals than his whole career. Marquee means top 3-5 player in the entire NBA in my opinion, and apparently in Kobe's too. And if that's the case, then yea, the knicks never had a top 3-5 player in the league at any point in their franchise.

90s
1) Michael Jordan
2) Karl Malone
3) Hakeem the Dream
4) Charles Barkley
5) Gary Payton

80s
1) Magic Johnson
2) Larry Bird
3) Isiah Thomas
4) Moses Malone
5) Kareem

70s
1) Kareem
2) Dr. J
3) Bill Walton
4) Dave Cowens
5) Tiny Archibald

60s
1) Bill Russell
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Oscar Robertson
4) Jerry West
5) Elgin Baylor

Good list but I will put David Robinson ahead of GP!

Vidball
11-27-2009, 02:00 AM
Kobe's right...in the history of the NYK, Willis Reed is the only Knick to ever win an MVP and that was 40 years ago. Reed was a very good player (a career 18 and 13 guy who only played at a high level for 7 seasons), but he was no Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc. They've had some very good players, but they haven't had one guy who would sniff the top-15 list.

CowboysKB24
11-27-2009, 02:04 AM
why am i supoose to care what kobe thinks

Why did you click the thread then?

There is something about him you just love!

ko8e24
11-27-2009, 02:07 AM
Ewing didn't have a title because of a guy named Mike and another guy named Hakeem. GP was "marquee" and Ewing wasn't? And Olajuwon is ahead of Malone too. God thing this isn't an "official" list and just some guy's opinion.

oh dont forget 99 against the spurs, when he didnt play in the finals cuz of injury :rolleyes:

hell, if i had a broken leg or arm or wutever, and knew my career was winding down, and i hadn't won a ring after like 15 yrs playin in the association, i'd still play in the damn nba finals and have my freakin pressence felt.

ko8e24
11-27-2009, 02:09 AM
last time i checked kobe came in the league in 96-97 and played ewing, barkley, pippen, jordan, and all of the 90s greats. In fact in 98 he was an all star standing right beside them.

He also played when hand checking was allowed and zone wasn't and then when zone was allowed and hand checking was banned.

Ewing didn't make people around the world buy his stuff, stay in awe of him, turn on their tv to watch him, sell out on the road night in and night out, and he ultimately wasn't even treated like a marquee guy by his own team or fans.

game

set


match!



:clap:

Chronz
11-27-2009, 02:26 AM
How many MVP's did Willis Reed win? Im pretty sure he has one, if not I do know he was the games best player for atleast a season while Wilt was gone and Kareem was young. His level of dominance compares with the games very best so I dont know what more Kobe wanted. Maybe he doesnt respect players who dont endure the test of time, and probably why he didnt consider Clyde an NY legend considering where he ended his career.







Ewing didn't have a title because of a guy named Mike and another guy named Hakeem. GP was "marquee" and Ewing wasn't? And Olajuwon is ahead of Malone too. God thing this isn't an "official" list and just some guy's opinion.

People say Im big headed, but Id rather be that, than whatever this state of mind constitutes as being. There is no "official" list guy, all anyone has are opinions. What matters is how much youve proven to know about the games history. And in Kobes mind Ewing wasnt a marquee guy without titles, and Willis and Clyde werent as big, for whatever reason.

Kobes proven himself a student of the game, as one of the few players who knows what hes talkin about when looking back on the games past, youd be a moron not to respect his opinion.

dodie53
11-27-2009, 02:27 AM
NY needs mike james

MTar786
11-27-2009, 02:43 AM
imagine new york goes ALL OUT because of what kobe said and pull off insane trades to get mark blount and mike james! kobe will be eating his own words

Evolution23
11-27-2009, 02:46 AM
MJ had pippen? Kobe had all stars on his team. Lebron hasnt won one yet.

IMo no one can win one by themselves. can you really say MJ, Lebron, and Kobe have no supporting cast?

Lebron doesn't have a real allstar, Kobe has Gasol and other better than average role players, and Ofcourse Michael had Pippen and some good role players.. So yea no one can win by themselves.

abe_froman
11-27-2009, 03:01 AM
Kobe's right...in the history of the NYK, Willis Reed is the only Knick to ever win an MVP and that was 40 years ago. Reed was a very good player (a career 18 and 13 guy who only played at a high level for 7 seasons), but he was no Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc. They've had some very good players, but they haven't had one guy who would sniff the top-15 list.

but thats not how you tell marquee.take mikan the first superstar,he owned the league,but probably not many people's top 15 list.you look at context of the era because as time goes on and era's pass more names get added to the list,bumping some lower.

so have to take in context of the era

coachkck
11-27-2009, 03:27 AM
-- "Ewing didn't make people around the world buy his stuff, stay in awe of him, turn on their TV to watch him, sell out on the road night in and night out, and he ultimately wasn't even treated like a marquee guy by his own team or fans."--

Neither did Tim Duncan and that is a marquee player so I'm just gonna disregard that statement, King was very good as well as Reed, Ewing, and Clyde.

The thing that is bad here is that Kobe disrespected those Legends cause yes they are legends where they rank shouldn't matter you shouldn't disrespect Legends.

Raph12
11-27-2009, 03:33 AM
Poor Ewing, first the Lakers beat his Magic in the Finals, then Kobe straight up disses him.

fast_break
11-27-2009, 10:43 AM
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9967/greatestknickplayer.swf

:clap:

sintaks12
11-27-2009, 10:48 AM
-- "Ewing didn't make people around the world buy his stuff, stay in awe of him, turn on their TV to watch him, sell out on the road night in and night out, and he ultimately wasn't even treated like a marquee guy by his own team or fans."--

Neither did Tim Duncan and that is a marquee player so I'm just gonna disregard that statement, King was very good as well as Reed, Ewing, and Clyde.

The thing that is bad here is that Kobe disrespected those Legends cause yes they are legends where they rank shouldn't matter you shouldn't disrespect Legends.

Yeah but Kobe is a douche bag, didn't you know? It's comical. And LeBron wanted to retire #23 but disregarded all the real pioneers of the game when making his public statement. These guys are unbelievable.

DBlakkBillGates
11-27-2009, 11:48 AM
You yungins bloggin have no idea! Guys like Barkley, Malone, Ewing, D. Wilkins, R. Miller would kill todays NBA stars! :DYour talking about a different time in basketball when men played. I think none of todays stars would have been ready for the outright physical nature of basketball in the 80s and 90s. Every current superstar named in this thread has played with a different set of rules offensively and defensively!
1) hand checking
2) zone defense
3) no-charge zone
I think every 80s-90s superstar would KILL with these rules! Do u think D. Wade could survive the season by the "old" rules? He'd be injured every year! U think Kobe could deal with all the grabbing and pulling he doesnt deal with now...Older players are much more complete than the player today..dats whut pushes Kobe now...to move past those older names cause in my opinion jury's still out..and before u give me a bunch of champ ring blah blah..Robert Horry has lyke @ least 5 rings!:clap:
Kobe's not right or wrong..he jus needs 2 shutup...had he not won last year none of you would've listened to him either!

kblo247
11-27-2009, 08:22 PM
You yungins bloggin have no idea! Guys like Barkley, Malone, Ewing, D. Wilkins, R. Miller would kill todays NBA stars! :DYour talking about a different time in basketball when men played. I think none of todays stars would have been ready for the outright physical nature of basketball in the 80s and 90s. Every current superstar named in this thread has played with a different set of rules offensively and defensively!
1) hand checking
2) zone defense
3) no-charge zone
I think every 80s-90s superstar would KILL with these rules! Do u think D. Wade could survive the season by the "old" rules? He'd be injured every year! U think Kobe could deal with all the grabbing and pulling he doesnt deal with now...Older players are much more complete than the player today..dats whut pushes Kobe now...to move past those older names cause in my opinion jury's still out..and before u give me a bunch of champ ring blah blah..Robert Horry has lyke @ least 5 rings!:clap:
Kobe's not right or wrong..he jus needs 2 shutup...had he not won last year none of you would've listened to him either!

1. Learn to type

2. Kobe played the guys you named because he came into what was supposed to be the No Boys Allowed league in 96-97 @ 17.

3. Kobe was a fellow all star next to them in 1998.

4. Kobe has played when Zone and charges weren't allowed and hand checking was.

5. Kobe is playing now when zone and charges are allowed and hand checking is banned.

6. Last time I checked Kobe would still have 3 more rings and at a minimum 2 more finals appearances than any of the players you actually named, thus making him a bigger winner than any of them in their careers.

7. Horry has seven rings. 2 with Houston, 3 with LA, and 2 with San Antonio.

8. Kobe has been regarded the best perimeter play to play the game since the beginning of the decade and he has actually stood the test of time for 14 years unlike some of the guys you mentioned who all fell off horribly unlike MJ, Malone, Miller, and Stockton.

9. Kobe has sold out arenas and the Lakers had the best road attendance and TV ratings of all teams during the Smush/Kwame years because Kobe was sold as a one man show. Ewing was never good enough to be sold or marketed as that despite playing in New York.

10. Ewing, Frazier, and Reed weren't even though of as being in the top 5 players of their eras. They may have been in the top 10 at their position but that alone doesn't make them marquee. If it did Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Chris Kaman, Jose Calderon, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Ron Artest, Josh Smith, and Michael Redd would all be considered as marquee players. They aren't considered that because they aren't now and have never been close to being the best anything in the league much like Ewing, Frazier, and Reed.

11. Look at this way, the Knicks play in the world's most famous arena because of the basketball, boxing, and wrestling events that have been held there but they have never come close to having the or one of the world's most famous player which is what Kobe is saying. In fact MSG is more remembered for what Kobe, MJ, Lebron, Reggie, and other NBA greats have done while visiting there than their own players which should really end this debate.

sofargone
11-27-2009, 08:26 PM
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9967/greatestknickplayer.swf

:clap:
i dont get it

ko8e24
11-27-2009, 08:59 PM
1. Learn to type

2. Kobe played the guys you named because he came into what was supposed to be the No Boys Allowed league in 96-97 @ 17.

3. Kobe was a fellow all star next to them in 1998.

4. Kobe has played when Zone and charges weren't allowed and hand checking was.

5. Kobe is playing now when zone and charges are allowed and hand checking is banned.

6. Last time I checked Kobe would still have 3 more rings and at a minimum 2 more finals appearances than any of the players you actually named, thus making him a bigger winner than any of them in their careers.

7. Horry has seven rings. 2 with Houston, 3 with LA, and 2 with San Antonio.

8. Kobe has been regarded the best perimeter play to play the game since the beginning of the decade and he has actually stood the test of time for 14 years unlike some of the guys you mentioned who all fell off horribly unlike MJ, Malone, Miller, and Stockton.

9. Kobe has sold out arenas and the Lakers had the best road attendance and TV ratings of all teams during the Smush/Kwame years because Kobe was sold as a one man show. Ewing was never good enough to be sold or marketed as that despite playing in New York.

10. Ewing, Frazier, and Reed weren't even though of as being in the top 5 players of their eras. They may have been in the top 10 at their position but that alone doesn't make them marquee. If it did Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Chris Kaman, Jose Calderon, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Ron Artest, Josh Smith, and Michael Redd would all be considered as marquee players. They aren't considered that because they aren't now and have never been close to being the best anything in the league much like Ewing, Frazier, and Reed.

11. Look at this way, the Knicks play in the world's most famous arena because of the basketball, boxing, and wrestling events that have been held there but they have never come close to having the or one of the world's most famous player which is what Kobe is saying. In fact MSG is more remembered for what Kobe, MJ, Lebron, Reggie, and other NBA greats have done while visiting there than their own players which should really end this debate.

:nod:
:nod:
:nod:
:nod:
:nod:

phoenix_bladen
11-28-2009, 12:14 AM
NY definitely deserves something better.........

is it because of bad drafting ?

I think it's because they never truly actually rebuild this decade that is why they never got a high pick and they also traded some lottery picks away

gallanari and jordan hill is still ?? for sure

JordansBulls
11-28-2009, 01:37 AM
1. Learn to type

2. Kobe played the guys you named because he came into what was supposed to be the No Boys Allowed league in 96-97 @ 17.

3. Kobe was a fellow all star next to them in 1998.

4. Kobe has played when Zone and charges weren't allowed and hand checking was.

5. Kobe is playing now when zone and charges are allowed and hand checking is banned.

6. Last time I checked Kobe would still have 3 more rings and at a minimum 2 more finals appearances than any of the players you actually named, thus making him a bigger winner than any of them in their careers.

7. Horry has seven rings. 2 with Houston, 3 with LA, and 2 with San Antonio.

8. Kobe has been regarded the best perimeter play to play the game since the beginning of the decade and he has actually stood the test of time for 14 years unlike some of the guys you mentioned who all fell off horribly unlike MJ, Malone, Miller, and Stockton.

9. Kobe has sold out arenas and the Lakers had the best road attendance and TV ratings of all teams during the Smush/Kwame years because Kobe was sold as a one man show. Ewing was never good enough to be sold or marketed as that despite playing in New York.

10. Ewing, Frazier, and Reed weren't even though of as being in the top 5 players of their eras. They may have been in the top 10 at their position but that alone doesn't make them marquee. If it did Joe Johnson, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Chris Kaman, Jose Calderon, Rajon Rondo, Derrick Rose, Ron Artest, Josh Smith, and Michael Redd would all be considered as marquee players. They aren't considered that because they aren't now and have never been close to being the best anything in the league much like Ewing, Frazier, and Reed.

11. Look at this way, the Knicks play in the world's most famous arena because of the basketball, boxing, and wrestling events that have been held there but they have never come close to having the or one of the world's most famous player which is what Kobe is saying. In fact MSG is more remembered for what Kobe, MJ, Lebron, Reggie, and other NBA greats have done while visiting there than their own players which should really end this debate.


Good post.

But I would say that Ewing could have been considered top 5 a few years especially from 1990-1996.

Frazier I would say had to be top 5 as well from 1970-1973. And Reed possibly the same time from 1970-1973 (man won 2 finals mvp's)

_KB24_
11-28-2009, 01:54 AM
11. Look at this way, the Knicks play in the world's most famous arena because of the basketball, boxing, and wrestling events that have been held there but they have never come close to having the or one of the world's most famous player which is what Kobe is saying. In fact MSG is more remembered for what Kobe, MJ, Lebron, Reggie, and other NBA greats have done while visiting there than their own players which should really end this debate.

That just ended the whole debate my friend! :clap:

azkarraga
11-28-2009, 01:55 AM
It's funny, kobe somehow acknowledges he's already as good as MJ... lol Please, somebody tell him he's not there yet.

Hellcrooner
11-28-2009, 04:42 AM
i cant believe how much some people are disrespecting earl monroe, clyde, walt, ewing etc

for gods sake calderon is a worm compared to the pearl!!!!!

Hellcrooner
11-28-2009, 04:44 AM
oh and did people conveniently forget that ewing was in the dream team? where only teh best of the best FROM THE BEST era of the league played?


oh of course ewing was not top 5 on his era.
of course it may have something to do with being in the same time and space then 3!!!! of the top 5 players EVER a certain JOrdan a ceirtan Magic and a certain Bird and maybe because he also was there ate the same time than other 3 Top 8 centers EVER, hakeem, sahq and robinson...

Hellcrooner
11-28-2009, 04:45 AM
i will also add that HEaLTHY b king was a top 5 player of the first 80s

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-28-2009, 09:34 PM
Good post.

But I would say that Ewing could have been considered top 5 a few years especially from 1990-1996.

Frazier I would say had to be top 5 as well from 1970-1973. And Reed possibly the same time from 1970-1973 (man won 2 finals mvp's)

I think they were top 5 in those years also. But thats the problem. Look how short their reigns at the top were. 6 years, 3 years and 3 years. Players attain all time great status because they can do it over long time span's. You cant do it for such a short time and want to be considered an all time great.

I would not consider Steve Nash a marque player. He has won 2 MVP's in the last 4 years. He is playing great again this year after having a down year last year. But he has only been great 4 years out of his 14 year career. To be a marque player, you have to dominate a lot longer than that.

king4day
11-28-2009, 09:45 PM
I thought the Knicks only won one ring?
And what's Patrick Ewing?
Sounds like Kobe's definition of Marquee is Kobe, MJ, or Lebron. And that's it. In which case, only 3 teams have ever had marquee players. (Hornets, wizards, and sonics don't count)

king4day
11-28-2009, 09:51 PM
11. Look at this way, the Knicks play in the world's most famous arena because of the basketball, boxing, and wrestling events that have been held there but they have never come close to having the or one of the world's most famous player which is what Kobe is saying. In fact MSG is more remembered for what Kobe, MJ, Lebron, Reggie, and other NBA greats have done while visiting there than their own players which should really end this debate.

Miller and MJ will be remembered in MSG for what they did against the Knicks.
Kobe and Lebron had a couple good games there but they aren't in the same category when it comes to what opposing players have done at the garden.

Lebron's biggest MSG moment is having the Knicks fans cheer for him because they want him to play there....every single game.

DODGERS&LAKERS
11-28-2009, 09:56 PM
Patrick Ewing never lead the league in any category. He was never even top 5 in rebounding during his years in the league. He was a turnover machine and never shot a very good % for a center. He was a defensive monster in college. But never brought it to the NBA with him. He only made the all defensive team 3 times in his 14 years in the league. And that was All Defensive second team at that. His highest player efficiency rating was 7th in 1993/1994. And only cracked the top 10 6 years out of his 14. He was a very good player. He was not an elite, marque player.

Ripper Gein
12-03-2009, 02:13 PM
Kobe spoke the truth.

New York has had all star players and even hall of famers, but they haven't had a superstar who defines an era or just needs to be seen and has to be respected whether you love or hate them.

A marquee player would be Wilt, Russel, Mikan, West, Magic, Kareem, Bird, MJ, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, Iverson, Dr. J, Reggie, Hakeem, Moses, T-Mac in Orlando, Vince in Toronto, Barkley, Malone, Stockton, KG, Wade, Kidd, and Lebron.

People have flocked from across the world to see them and watched/dissected their every move.

Ewing, Frazier, Willis, and Reed not so much as they simply weren't ground breaking superstars who you break bank to see, and none of them defined the era that they played in anyway, shape, or form. They were a bunch of Scottie Pippens, Grant Hills, and David Robinsons instead of bad *** living legends. In fact none of them were considered as being close to the best of their era.

He gave Frazier and Willis due credit when he said they won as a team because he is on record saying it takes the contributions of a team to win when he said he and Shaq never win 3 without Fish, Fox, Horry, and Shaw every year.

The Knicks won the same way the Pistons did with a group of all star effort and team work, not with a player simply imposing themselves and their individual will on them when the team as a whole needed that boost to get over that hump.

No disrespect what so ever, he simply didn't beat around the bush or kiss any *** like some would have preferred when it comes to what some like to call the flagship franchise despite them not being a historical winning one.

--

For those who have further questions of "marquee", during the Kwame/Smush years the Lakers still were one of the top road, home, and tv draws in the NBA bar none. In fact the franchise actually made even more money selling just Kobe by himself and according to Forbes from a year or so ago he is the most profitable and marketable player that the Lakers have ever had, which goes for the league as well.

Marquee = putting ***** in seat during tough times, being a defining characteristic of your era, and being discussed as one of the best to ever play, let alone in the top top two or three of your time.

What he says will hold true if they bring in Joe Johnson, Amare, and/or Bosh instead of Wade and/or Lebron.

Patrick CHEW-ing anyone?