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View Full Version : LeBron the best of 2009-10, but...



Asce
11-25-2009, 09:58 PM
It may not come as much of a surprise to Cleveland fans, that James has indeed been the best player through his first 14 games.

But, would you be surprised if I told you that he hasn't been the league's best player the last two seasons? Actually, he hasn't been the league's best player since getting drafted. And believe it or not, it hasn't been Kobe.

Here's a list of the NBA's best players between 2003-2009 (*note: wp48 stands for wins produced per 48 minutes):

2003-04 - Kevin Garnett (.453 wp48), lead the league with 30.5 wins; was named MVP.

2004-05 - Kevin Garnett (career-high .462 wp48), lead the league with 30.0 wins; Steve Nash won MVP.

2005-06 - Kevin Garnett (.430 wp48), lead the league with 26.5 wins; Steve Nash won MVP.

2006-07 - Jason Kidd (.405 wp48), lead the league with 24.8 wins; Dirk Nowitzki won MVP.

2007-08 - Chris Paul (.406 wp48), lead the league with 25.2 wins; Kobe Bryant won MVP.

2008-09 - Chris Paul (career-high .451 wp48), lead the league with 28.2 wins; LeBron James won MVP.

It's important to note, that almost every time, the best player in the league was snubbed of the MVP award, Garnett being the exception in 03-04. However, Garnett was also the best player in the league the season prior (02-03) and failed to win it. The year before that, the league's most valuable player was Ben Wallace (01-02). Both times, Tim Duncan won the award.

I'm wondering if James will fail to win it this season, now that he actually deserves it?

ko8e24
11-25-2009, 10:00 PM
goobers

theuuord
11-25-2009, 10:00 PM
wins produced is soooo bad.

Asce
11-25-2009, 10:01 PM
What makes you say that?

1265LombardiAve
11-25-2009, 10:04 PM
It may not come as much of a surprise to Cleveland fans, that James has indeed been the best player through his first 14 games.

Dirk.


But, would you be surprised if I told you that he hasn't been the league's best player the last two seasons?

no


Actually, he hasn't been the league's best player since getting drafted.

duh


And believe it or not, it hasn't been Kobe.

Wrong

RaptorsFanatic
11-25-2009, 10:05 PM
May we stop talking about this ****** for atleast a week. Geez. There has to be atleast one thread directed to Lebron or the Cavs every week, I'm getting tired of it.

theuuord
11-25-2009, 10:06 PM
What makes you say that?

because it doesn't calculate actual wins produced. it's not super bad - i exaggerated a bit - but it's definitely extremely flawed in its approach.

Iodine
11-25-2009, 10:07 PM
In other news lebron had a dinner of chicken, shrimp, pasta, and carrots. I am looking for the link right now

theuuord
11-25-2009, 10:10 PM
to expound a bit for people who don't know wins produced, Dave Berri essentially takes a specific marginal value for a few certain statistics, adjusts for pace, and adds it all up. it's not really nuanced and provides a nice surface value, but because of its inherent flaws can be manipulated into making claims of "best" player solely based upon it like the OP did here.

superkegger
11-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Brandon Jennings is the best player since he was drafted. Fact.

Iodine
11-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Brandon Jennings is the best player since he was drafted. Fact.

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/truestrican/CAPTAINOBVIOUS.png

superkegger
11-25-2009, 10:14 PM
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/truestrican/CAPTAINOBVIOUS.png

Just making sure people remembered, because I think they forgot.

ko8e24
11-25-2009, 10:14 PM
In other news lebron had a dinner of chicken, shrimp, pasta, and carrots. I am looking for the link right now

oh pretty pretty plz let me be the first one to see that link. :pray:

ko8e24
11-25-2009, 10:15 PM
ah dangit, superkegger got to it before me, lol

Asce
11-25-2009, 10:19 PM
to expound a bit for people who don't know wins produced, Dave Berri essentially takes a specific marginal value for a few certain statistics, adjusts for pace, and adds it all up. it's not really nuanced and provides a nice surface value, but because of its inherent flaws can be manipulated into making claims of "best" player solely based upon it like the OP did here.

Well you're right in the sense that it doesn't really incorporate intangibles. But it makes sense with respect to a player's box-score productivity. Which certainly has a lot to do with why team's win or lose games.

dodie53
11-25-2009, 10:24 PM
who's Brandon Jennings ?












hehe

theuuord
11-25-2009, 10:25 PM
Well you're right in the sense that it doesn't really incorporate intangibles. But it makes sense with respect to a player's box-score productivity. Which certainly has a lot to do with why team's win or lose games.

it's not even about intangibles. Berri's analysis is flawed in the sense that it sets one essential value for every statistic and assumes that the value is the same for all teams and all systems. It isn't bad for team valuation, and there is far more value in statistical analysis than most people give credit for, but you can't just say that someone is "the best player" based on one analysis that's rooted entirely in a flawed system.

Paul is a great player, IMO the third best in the NBA - but not based on one metric.

ChiSox219
11-25-2009, 10:26 PM
Over the last 3 years:
1. LeBron James
2. Lamar Odom
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Ray Allen
5. Chris Paul


2008-09
1. Odom
2. Lebron
3. Ray Allen
4. Chris Paul
5. Dwyane Wade

2007-08
1. Paul Pierce
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Manu Ginobili
5. Kevin Garnett

2006-07
1. Tim Duncan
2. Devin Harris
3. Manu Ginobili
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitzki

Deezy Dee 24.
11-26-2009, 12:08 AM
Brandon Jennings is the best player since he was drafted. Fact.

i dont know why but every time i see Brandon Jennings name i laugh cause i think about superkegger

praise BJ :worthy:

jetsfan28
11-26-2009, 12:11 AM
Why look at wp48? Part of being the best is playing. And chances are, if you play more you'll play tired more, thus hurting your wp48. LeBron should be rewarded for playing 4 more minutes (and 3 more games) than Paul last year. Just one reason that that's a pretty subjective way of defining best.