PDA

View Full Version : NBA ReDraft Playoffs -- Finals: 1 Dallas Mavericks vs. 4 New York Knicks



Catfish1314
11-23-2009, 12:55 AM
Once or a twice year, PSD holds an NBA ReDraft. In this game played by PSD users, all the players in the NBA go into a draft pool. A lottery is held to determine the order and in 12 rounds of drafting and trading the GMs try to create the best team possible.

The NBA Finals features the top seeded Dallas Mavericks versus the 4th seed New York Knicks. The Mavericks have homecourt advantage. Their respective rosters and write-ups are listed below.

Keep in mind these are not the real life teams.

Mavericks:

C: Al Horford - Ryan Hollins
PF: Dirk Nowitzki - Nick Collison - Kris Humphries
SF: Wilson Chandler - Jared Dudley
SG: Joe Johnson - Quinton Ross - Rashad McCants
PG: DJ Augustin - Chris Duhon

Knicks:

C - Marcus Camby / Brian Skinner / Steven Hunter
PF - David Lee / Craig Smith
SF - Boris Diaw / Rasual Butler / Ime Udoka
SG - Brandon Roy / Rasual Butler / Ime Udoka
PG - Mo Williams / Sergio Rodriguez / Shaun Livingston

Mavericks write-up:


On to the NBA Finals! We are facing off against a talented New York Knicks team and congrats to KoB for getting so far.

That being said, I believe our squad would take this series. I dont wanna say it would be a easy series, but I dont think the Mavs would ever be in danger of losing the series.

The reasons are simple. The Knicks have a star guard to go to as do the Mavs, but the Knicks dont have a First Team All NBA Power forward that can dominate games himself either.

The matchups show that the Mavs have a big advantage as the Knicks would have a ton of trouble stopping Dirk. David Lee wouldnt be able to do much and Camby simply doesn't have the ability to guard a player with Dirk's abilities.

In the frontcourt, the matchup is pretty even with Marcus Camby and Al Horford matching up at center but very much in favor of the Mavs in the Dirk/Lee matchup. Neither Camby nor Lee will score alot of points, but Horford can match the scoring of them I'm certain with Dirk dominating from the PF spot.

There isnt a phase of the frontcourt the Knicks have any advantage in, whether it be scoring, rebounding,
etc...

At Small forward there is a pretty even matchup between Boris Diaw and Wilson Chandler, even though I believe that Diaw is a much better player playing at PF or C like he did in Phoenix and is now doing in Charlotte. He has always seemed to struggle when teams played him as a wing man.

At SG there is a fantastic matchup between Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy. Pretty damn even matchup, but this year Joe Johnson has been the better player and I think his size and strength advantage here would give Roy more problems than Roy would give him.

The PG matchup is a win for the Knicks, but I am not too worried about this one. With Roy and JJ/Dirk dominating the ball the PG matchup will essentially be a spot up shooting contest between the two players and Augustin is a fine outside shooter as well so we feel be can bury those 3's and open looks and help the team.

The bench is another area in which we feel we have the advantage. Duhon I know is hated by alot of Knicks fans because he isnt a great starting PG, but as a backup he is very solid and certainly better than Sergio Rodriguez. Collison can play PF or C and is a very good backup big while Smith because of being undersized is really at a disadvantage. Brian Skinner at backup C is pretty bad, and Rasual Butler provides a shooter off the bench but not much else.

Due to our advantages across the board we feel this is a easy choice, hope you feel the same way.

Knicks write-up:


Rotation:
C – Marcus Camby (35 min), David Lee (13 min)
PF – David Lee (26 min), Boris Diaw (12 min), Craig Smith (10 min)
SF – Boris Diaw (28 min), Rasual Butler (20 min)
SG – Brandon Roy (42 min), Rasual Butler (6 min)
PG – Mo Williams (40 min), Sergio Rodriguez (8 min)

PG – Mo Williams vs. DJ Augustin
This is an All-Star vs. a bench player. Mo Williams is averaging 17.3ppg, 3.1rpg, 4.6apg while shooting 44.6%fg / 48.4% 3pt/ 93% ft this season and was the sole addition last season to a Cavaliers team that jumped from 45 wins to 66 wins. He can slash to the basket, has great court vision, and has shown with LeBron to be the perfect compliment to a star player (like Roy) because he is just as effective playing off the ball because of his great jump shot (league leader in 2pt jumpers last year and a top 3pt shooter this season). DJ Augustin is a backup who is averaging 6.5ppg, 1.2rpg, 2.3apg while shooting 32.9% / 25% / 75.8%. To put that horrific shooting into perspective, Rafer Alston currently has the worst FG% of all qualified players right now at 34.4% from the field. DJ Augustin would be the WORST SHOOTER IN THE NBA if he had taken enough shots. Raymond Felton is off to the worst start of his career (lowest ppg, worst fg%/3pt/ft, lowest rpg, lowest apg, highest to/pg) yet is in no fear of losing his job to Augustin because he’s been even worse. In fact let’s take a closer look at DJ’s last 7 games:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...PzQ9Vt9KvUPaB4
Game 1 – 0pts (0/2fg), 0rbs, 1ast, 2 to in 11 minutes
Game 2 – 4pts (2/6fg), 0rbs, 1ast, 1 to in 17 minutes
Game 3 – 3pts (0/1fg), 1rb, 3ast, 2 to in 16 minutes
Game 4 – 3pts (1/5fg), 1rb, 0ast, 1 to in 19 minutes
Game 5 – 2pts (1/4fg), 3rb, 4ast, 2 to in 13 minutes
Game 6 – 6pts (2/6fg), 0rb, 4ast, 0 to in 21 minutes
Game 7 – 1pt (0/3fg), 0rb, 0 ast, 0 to in 13 minutes

That’s his STARTER! Well at least the Mavs have Chris Duhon off the bench right? WRONG! Remarkbly, Chris Duhon is EVEN WORSE! (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/...PzQ9Vt9KsOPaB4) He is scoring 6.8ppg in 34 minutes while shooting an embarrassing 24.7% FROM THE FIELD and 22.9% 3pt. I see Chris Duhon first-hand every game and the only thing that is more embarrassing than his offense is his defense. He argues with refs, doesn’t hustle back, and he gets consistently burned by whatever PG he’s on which is why the Knicks have to throw Jared Jeffries at guys like Rondo and Nash. Name me an NBA Champion that was this weak at the PG position or any position. This is not even close to the same as a Derek Fisher, Rajon Rondo, or even Jason “White Chocolate” Williams. This is negative production for 48 minutes every game. Mo Williams will torch both of these players for the entire series.

Huge Edge: Knicks

SG – Brandon Roy vs. Joe Johnson
I’ll be honest, I like both of these players a lot. Personally I think Brandon Roy is a better player which is why I drafted him with JJ available but this matchup is pretty much even. I know they played this year they had even rebound/assist numbers, Roy shot more efficiently but Johnson had more points. I think we can agree that either team would be wasting time to try and convince voters they had a clear advantage at the SG.

Edge: Even

SF – Boris Diaw vs. Wilson Chandler
It’s important to look at this matchup on both sides of the ball. The first thing we need to clear up is Wilson Chandler’s overrated defense. He’s one of my favorite player in the NBA but even I have to point out that during Knicks “Hell” week last year LeBron and Kobe basically had a competition on who could embarrass the Knicks more with LBJ put up 50+ with an almost triple-double and Kobe put up 60+ points with Chandler on them. Now that’s not too embarrassing because of the stature of the opponents but the bigger point is Chandler’s never shown that lockdown ability. Never. This year in matchups where he’s played >25 minutes vs. an opponent he’s been outplayed 9 times including Dahntay Jones and Jodie Meeks. His only win was vs. Trenton Hassell yesterday. http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...file/10/20/276 Take a quick look. That’s pitiful. He has a great knack for getting blocks but that’s about it. Diaw and Chandler are about even on defense. Then offensively Diaw destroys him. Diaw is an incredibly versatile forward who can dribble, pass (5apg), shoot(49%fg), and post up. Chandler unfortunately has gotten worse at all of these since his injury from the summer. He went from averaging almost 18ppg the last 2 months of the season to scoring 12ppg this season while shooting only 42% fg and 23% from 3pt. He doesn’t even get to the hoop anymore and he relies too much on his poor perimeter shot. He shoots more 3’s than free throws (3.2 per game vs. 1.9 per game). Diaw would outscore Wilson and be much more efficient on both ends.

Edge: Knicks

PF – David Lee vs. Dirk Nowitzki
David Lee scoring averages during his career have been as follows: 5.2, 10.7, 10.8, 16.0, and 17.3ppg this season. He’s shooting 55% from the field and is extremely talented at finishing with both hands at the basket. I’ll admit he’s not the best defender in the league but neither is Dirk. Dirk may be on a rampage this season but let’s put that into perspective. He’s shooting 44.4% from the field (his lowest since his rookie season in 1998) and is taking a career high 20.6 fg attempts per game. He’s been guarded this season by Iylasova, Villanueva, Gomes, Bonner, Landry, Bargnani, Odom, Blatche. Not exactly first-team all defense. Also let’s not ignore the fact that Dirk has gone from Steve Nash, to Devin Harris, to Jason Kidd at PG. I have a funny feeling DJ Augustin and Chris Duhon won’t make life as easy. Here’s a fun fact: Dirk has not held any opponent who he’s guarded for 25+ minutes under 10 points, even those guys I mentioned. Which means, Dirk might get his but so will David Lee. I’ll concede it’s a solid advantage but we all know Lee would be very close to averaging 20/10 (which is more than we can say for the production of his PGs) this series with high fg efficiency crashing the boards.

Solid Edge: Mavericks
C – Marcus Camby vs. Al Horford
In Horford’s brief career they’ve matched up 3 times. http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball...son/10/1/5/159
Horford has averaged – 11ppg / 8rpg / 3apg / 1bpg / 50% fg/ efficiency score of 19
Camby has averaged – 11ppg / 13rpg / 4apg / 2bpg / 52% fg/ efficiency score of 27
Camby’s size and length will give Horford trouble but there is no clear edge here. Both can score, are good rebounders and can block shots.

Edge: Even

Bench:
Sergio / Rasual Butler / Craig Smith (with Lee and Diaw sliding over positions) vs. Duhon/Ross/Dudley/Collison/Hollins.

I definitely have the superior bench. Even ignoring the fact that Lee and Diaw will be playing backup minutes vs. his scrubs, my edge remains. Ross / Collison / Hollins combine for about 10ppg. Rasual Butler alone gets 11ppg and plays top notch defense. Dudley is his only solid contributor off the bench while to go with Butler I have Craig Smith who has one of the most underrated post games in the league (8th best PF in points per 48 minutes last year) and Sergio is one of the top ast/mpg players each year with low turnovers in limited minutes.

Edge: Knicks

Overall:
At first glance, his team looks like a dream. Dirk, Joe Johnson, Horford. Wilson Chandler has the “underrated” label (which belongs to Diaw) and Augustin was a high lottery pick last year so he has name value. It’s a mirage. He has a SF who is coming off an injury and playing WORSE in his 3rd year. His performance has been alarming for Knicks fans on both ends of the ball. He’s not as aggressive and his numbers are declining. Then he doesn’t have a PG. They are both atrocious. I can’t think of an NBA Champion that has been that weak at any one position.
Then you look at the Knicks. My team is exactly that. A TEAM. The Knicks have 3 of the top 15 players in the NBA last season in effective field goal percentage: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...9_leaders.html
Diaw – 11th
Lee – 13th
Mo Williams – 14th

We have a PG who can slash, distribute, and play off the ball, a superstar at SG who can do it all including being an elite game closer, a versatile SF who can play PF and loves to pass and can score in a variety of ways, a PF/C who is an elite rebounder, can finish with either hand at the rim (so underrated there!), with a solid jumpshot, and a shotblocking/rebounding C to protect the paint. It’s a team. It’s a team built for balance and a team built to win.

The Knicks may not have the star power of the Mavericks but they do have a superstar of their own and they also have a real team to go with him. Knicks win the NBA Championship!

Lakerfrk
11-23-2009, 01:14 AM
Lovin the Knicks... but unfortunately, I think the Mavs win....

theimortalone
11-23-2009, 01:41 AM
I gotta go with the Mavericks.

Mavrix
11-23-2009, 01:54 AM
Mavs in 5

29$JerZ
11-23-2009, 02:07 AM
Mavs, Their Front court just trashes the Knicks imo.

Toenail Clipper
11-23-2009, 02:09 AM
Mavericks

Mile High Champ
11-23-2009, 02:17 AM
Could not be any happier with how this has gone..

Giaps
11-23-2009, 02:28 AM
I'm not sure about that. Dirk in the finals didn't go so well last time and Knicks have the better bench.

NYKnickFanatic
11-23-2009, 02:32 AM
This is a close one. I like Roy and Mo over Joe and DJ, but Dirk kills Lee.

Ill take the Knicks only because the Mavs bench is terrible.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 02:34 AM
I like how in the Knicks writeup Mo Williams has a "Huge Edge" over DJ Augustin but Dirk Nowitzki, former league MVP and 1st team All NBA only has a "Solid Edge" over David Lee.

Your points on Dirk are valid but dont really mean anything. His FG% is down a bit this year because he is taking alot more shots (as you pointed out) and the reason for that is he simply has to. With Josh Howard and Shawn Marion missing so much time its on him and Jason Terry to do pretty much all the scoring and if a player shoots more due to not having any help then naturally his FG% will drop a bit. Once those guys get back and his looks get better it will jump, Im quite sure of it.

Like I said in my writeup regarding Diaw, you have him playing out of position and are trying to compare his numbers as the #1 option in the frontcourt on the Bobcats to what he would do at a totally different position on your team. It doesnt work that way. In reality he is slow footed and isnt a very good outside shooter and thats why teams shy away from putting him at the very position you have him at. He is a terrible outside shooter and its not like he could work inside with Camby and Lee clogging the lane.

You say Augustin wouldnt make things easier for Dirk, but really in the backcourt the ball would always run through Joe Johnson. DJ Augustin is nothing more than a spot up shooter on this team, which he can do. He hasn't had a great start to the season but when you surround a guy with a couple of MVP caliber players and some great complimentary players like Al Horford and Wilson Chandler they usually excel, it happens time and time again every year in the NBA. He is a career 42% three point shooter so his start is far from indicative of his ability.

Finally, your "fun fact" about Dirk not holding any player he has guarded under 10 points for over 25 minutes is awful... Its hard for any defender to hold any player who is good enough to play 25+ minutes under 10 points. That proves nothing.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 02:38 AM
Not exactly shocked to see that 3 out of the 4 votes so far for the Knicks are Knicks fans... I hope the intelligent Knicks fans on here will realize that this in no way helps the real Knicks and actually votes for the better team.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 02:51 AM
I'm not sure about that. Dirk in the finals didn't go so well last time and Knicks have the better bench.

I'd love to hear the explanation on why the Knicks have the better bench. Craig Smith isnt as good as Nick Collison and Sergio Rodriguez isnt as good as Chris Duhon, even if you dont like Duhon. Ross is a top notch defender of the bench. Dudley has been fantastic this year off the PHX bench.

madiaz3
11-23-2009, 02:54 AM
I don't think most people realize just how terrible the Mavericks PG situation really is. Dirk having dealt with only all-star or higher talented players is something to note. Honestly it really is only a solid edge over David Lee if Dirk allows Lee to drop 20/10 game in and game out. We can expect Dirk to score 25+ or even close to 30 but if that is the biggest advantage they have then the Mavs are in for some trouble.

I've personally witnessed Wilson Chandlers regression and have no problem conceding that Boris Diaw would make him a non-factor in this series and himself remain effective and provide a scoring punch.

Take into account that the ridiculously low FG% shared by the Mavs starting guards coupled with the offensive rebounding machine that is David Lee is going to result in a significant amount of extra possessions for the Knicks, because every shot by Duhon (and Augistine to a degree) is practically a turnover, not to mention that Duhon turns it over on a regular basis when not shooting.

I cannot be compelled to think of a contender with a worse starting and backup point guard than this team, especially not one who competed against a team who had an all-star at THEIR PG position. This is not to say a PG who contributed little yet knew his role, this is two PGs who negatively contribute to their team each and every minute they are on the floor.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 03:28 AM
I don't think most people realize just how terrible the Mavericks PG situation really is. Dirk having dealt with only all-star or higher talented players is something to note. Honestly it really is only a solid edge over David Lee if Dirk allows Lee to drop 20/10 game in and game out. We can expect Dirk to score 25+ or even close to 30 but if that is the biggest advantage they have then the Mavs are in for some trouble.

I've personally witnessed Wilson Chandlers regression and have no problem conceding that Boris Diaw would make him a non-factor in this series and himself remain effective and provide a scoring punch.

Take into account that the ridiculously low FG% shared by the Mavs starting guards coupled with the offensive rebounding machine that is David Lee is going to result in a significant amount of extra possessions for the Knicks, because every shot by Duhon (and Augistine to a degree) is practically a turnover, not to mention that Duhon turns it over on a regular basis when not shooting.

I cannot be compelled to think of a contender with a worse starting and backup point guard than this team, especially not one who competed against a team who had an all-star at THEIR PG position. This is not to say a PG who contributed little yet knew his role, this is two PGs who negatively contribute to their team each and every minute they are on the floor.

What makes you actually believe that David Lee would score over 20 a game in the series? Lets go over Dirks PF matchups so far this season...

Game 1: Andray Blatche - 20 points in this game, a game that I was actually at and I can tell you that it was all jump shots. If David Lee can consistently nail long jumpers than maybe he has a chance, but I doubt it.

Game 2: Lamar Odom - 10 points, was basically a non factor.

Game 3: Marcus Camby - 6 points. Dampier covered Kaman, Dirk covered Camby.

Game 4: Carlos Boozer - All Star PF held to 12 points.

Game 5: David West - 25 points - He hit his jumpshots and took the majority of the Hornets shots, can't try and blame that on Dirk. Lee is no David West.

Game 6: Chris Bosh - 25 points - He is Chris Bosh and has been great this year. David Lee is certainly no Chris Bosh.

Game 7: Luis Scola - 12 points - Decent but nothing special... just like David Lee.

Game 8: Spurs w/o Duncan - Nobody credible to put here

Game 9: Ryan Gomes - 10 points

Game 10: Charlie Villanueva - 13 points

Game 11: Hakim Warrick - 6 points

Game 12: Tim Duncan - 21 points, shut Duncan down in OT while scoring 11 himself.

Game 13: Jason Thompson - 18 points


My point in all this is that you assuming that Dirk is gonna give up 20 a game is ridiculous as that hasnt been the case at all this year.

Second, you say our backcourt has a terrible FG% but JJ shoots the same % as Brandon Roy... Augustin was a very good shooter last year so I believe he can get back on track. I will choose a full season of evidence over like 12 games.

asmarks18
11-23-2009, 03:40 AM
Mavs, hands down. The entire team is just better. Especially the core group of players.

Mavrix
11-23-2009, 04:19 AM
Dirk and Joe Johnson would own this series.

Mavrix
11-23-2009, 04:20 AM
Dirk and Joe Johnson would own this series.

Both players are leading their teams at the top of their respective conferences.

KnicksorBust
11-23-2009, 08:05 AM
On to the NBA Finals! We are facing off against a talented New York Knicks team and congrats to KoB for getting so far.

That being said, I believe our squad would take this series. I dont wanna say it would be a easy series, but I dont think the Mavs would ever be in danger of losing the series.

The reasons are simple. The Knicks have a star guard to go to as do the Mavs, but the Knicks dont have a First Team All NBA Power forward that can dominate games himself either.

The matchups show that the Mavs have a big advantage as the Knicks would have a ton of trouble stopping Dirk. David Lee wouldnt be able to do much and Camby simply doesn't have the ability to guard a player with Dirk's abilities.

In the frontcourt, the matchup is pretty even with Marcus Camby and Al Horford matching up at center but very much in favor of the Mavs in the Dirk/Lee matchup. Neither Camby nor Lee will score alot of points, but Horford can match the scoring of them I'm certain with Dirk dominating from the PF spot.

There isnt a phase of the frontcourt the Knicks have any advantage in, whether it be scoring, rebounding,
etc...

At Small forward there is a pretty even matchup between Boris Diaw and Wilson Chandler, even though I believe that Diaw is a much better player playing at PF or C like he did in Phoenix and is now doing in Charlotte. He has always seemed to struggle when teams played him as a wing man.

At SG there is a fantastic matchup between Joe Johnson and Brandon Roy. Pretty damn even matchup, but this year Joe Johnson has been the better player and I think his size and strength advantage here would give Roy more problems than Roy would give him.

The PG matchup is a win for the Knicks, but I am not too worried about this one. With Roy and JJ/Dirk dominating the ball the PG matchup will essentially be a spot up shooting contest between the two players and Augustin is a fine outside shooter as well so we feel be can bury those 3's and open looks and help the team.

The bench is another area in which we feel we have the advantage. Duhon I know is hated by alot of Knicks fans because he isnt a great starting PG, but as a backup he is very solid and certainly better than Sergio Rodriguez. Collison can play PF or C and is a very good backup big while Smith because of being undersized is really at a disadvantage. Brian Skinner at backup C is pretty bad, and Rasual Butler provides a shooter off the bench but not much else.

Due to our advantages across the board we feel this is a easy choice, hope you feel the same way.

Wow I'm getting crushed. wtf? I wish I could get that 3 hours back of my life that I spent on my writeup while my girlfriend was pissed off. lol

Anyway, I bolded what I thought was ridiculous. You may have the better scoring frontcourt but you don't have better rebounding. That's ridiculous. Lee and Camby eat the glass. I would win the matchup on the boards and those extra possessions would be mine. Second, if you wanna make the PG matchup a jump shooting contest I'm going to destroy you. Mo Williams lead the league in 2pt jump shooting 2 years ago and this year is shooting a ridiculous 48% from 3pt. Meanwhile DJ Augustin is one of the worst shooters in the league (I'd say THE worst but you have Chris Duhon on your bench). You can't use last year to back you up when he's been THAT BAD this year. That's a massive advantage for me. I think my team just is a stronger TEAM. No NBA champion has been THAT WEAK at any position. How can we honestly buy DJ Augustin/Chris Duhon as the PG tandem of an NBA Champion???

bigsams50
11-23-2009, 08:56 AM
Mavs

KnicksorBust
11-23-2009, 06:19 PM
Can someone name me an NBA Champion in the last 20 years that won with a player as ineffective as DJ Augustin is this year? I mean seriously.

sofargone
11-23-2009, 06:23 PM
This isnt even close. Mavs.
how did the knicks make it this far?

KnicksorBust
11-23-2009, 06:44 PM
This isnt even close. Mavs.
how did the knicks make it this far?

Obviously you don't read writeups or follow the nba. :rolleyes: clueless.

WhatdoYouthink?
11-23-2009, 07:06 PM
Gotta go with the Maverick, Lee vs Dirk = :facepalm:

KnicksorBust
11-23-2009, 07:29 PM
Can someone name me an NBA Champion in the last 20 years that won with a player as ineffective as DJ Augustin is this year? I mean seriously.

Still waiting... :confused: Meanwhile my worst player is David Lee a guy who puts up 17-10 with 55% from the field. Is he All-Defense? No but that's why I have Camby to protect the rim.

Kakaroach
11-23-2009, 07:43 PM
Congratz to both GMs' for doing great jobs. :clap: I'm still torn on this one, its much closer than people think...

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 08:08 PM
Can someone name me an NBA Champion in the last 20 years that won with a player as ineffective as DJ Augustin is this year? I mean seriously.

Its less than a quarter 1/6 of the way through the regular season and he is having a bit of a sophomore slump, which is to be expected. He was great as a rookie and showed that he has the skills to be a good player in the league.

You are trying to act like the 13 games he has played this season are what he is as a player while totally ignoring the 72 he played last year where he scored 12 a game off the bench and put up 3.5 assists a game while shooting 43% from both the floor and the 3 point line. I know you are trying oh so hard to convince people that the 13 games he has played this year makes him a bad player but people see through that and realize its a slump.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 08:10 PM
Like almost every vote for the Knicks so far is a Knicks fan... Im shocked.

KnicksorBust
11-23-2009, 08:16 PM
Its less than a quarter 1/6 of the way through the regular season and he is having a bit of a sophomore slump, which is to be expected. He was great as a rookie and showed that he has the skills to be a good player in the league.

You are trying to act like the 13 games he has played this season are what he is as a player while totally ignoring the 72 he played last year where he scored 12 a game off the bench and put up 3.5 assists a game while shooting 43% from both the floor and the 3 point line. I know you are trying oh so hard to convince people that the 13 games he has played this year makes him a bad player but people see through that and realize its a slump.

You could have just said you can't name a player that was as ineffective as him that started on an NBA Champion. You didn't have to deflect the question. Just say "you got me KoB!" :)

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 08:29 PM
You could have just said you can't name a player that was as ineffective as him that started on an NBA Champion. You didn't have to deflect the question. Just say "you got me KoB!" :)

I PROMISE you that players on championship teams have gone through slumps just like any other player and have had bad stretches, so your point is ridiculous. You didnt get anyone. Im sure if I felt like digging up stuff I could find bad stretches by plenty of players. Being on teams like the Bobcats has a way of dragging down any player though.

superkegger
11-23-2009, 08:42 PM
Can someone name me an NBA Champion in the last 20 years that won with a player as ineffective as DJ Augustin is this year? I mean seriously.

Did you see Derek Fisher in the playoffs last year? Other than his one shot, he was essentially, well not, not just essentially, he was utterly worthless on both ends of the floor.

KnicksorBust
11-23-2009, 08:44 PM
I PROMISE you that players on championship teams have gone through slumps just like any other player and have had bad stretches, so your point is ridiculous. You didnt get anyone. Im sure if I felt like digging up stuff I could find bad stretches by plenty of players. Being on teams like the Bobcats has a way of dragging down any player though.

Yeah I'm sure there's hundreds of starters on championship teams that started their 2nd career seasons as backups scoring 6ppg while also having one of the worst field goal percentages in the nba. I'm just looking for 1 please. Unless it's too much trouble... I mean you have the votes, who cares right? Why waste your time?

Sidenote: You really wanna bash the Bobcats when you starting Finals PG isn't even a starter for them?

king4day
11-23-2009, 09:18 PM
I agreed with the Knicks writeup. Much more balanced team.
The Mavs lineup gives you DJ, Chandler and Horford who are good but not great.

1-800-STFU
11-23-2009, 09:25 PM
Knicks in 7 for me.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 11:50 PM
I agreed with the Knicks writeup. Much more balanced team.
The Mavs lineup gives you DJ, Chandler and Horford who are good but not great.

and you are telling me Boris Diaw, Marcus Camby, David Lee and Mo Williams are anything more than good? They are solid players but its not like they are All Stars or anything. I know Williams made it last year, but it was as an injury replacement. Good for him...

We're gonna win so I dont even care to continue arguing all this, but that point was odd.

BlondeBomber41
11-23-2009, 11:56 PM
Yeah I'm sure there's hundreds of starters on championship teams that started their 2nd career seasons as backups scoring 6ppg while also having one of the worst field goal percentages in the nba. I'm just looking for 1 please. Unless it's too much trouble... I mean you have the votes, who cares right? Why waste your time?

Sidenote: You really wanna bash the Bobcats when you starting Finals PG isn't even a starter for them?

You obviously dont get the point of what I said... players in the NBA tend to be dragged down by terrible teams and when they get on teams with more talent they do alot better themselves. Augustin went from having Emeka Okafor and Jason Richardson as teammates to Raja Bell being injured and a mediocre Tyson Chandler. That drags a player down. I have a feeling if he had Dirk Nowitzki and Joe Johnson taking all the attention, a very good youhg big man down low and a up and coming SF like Chandler to take pressure off him he would get better. Nobody thought players like Rajon Rondo and Trevor Ariza were anything special until they got on a team that would take all the attention off of them, and then they all of a sudden were alot better.

Silent
11-23-2009, 11:57 PM
mavs

sofargone
11-24-2009, 12:01 AM
Obviously you don't read writeups or follow the nba. :rolleyes: clueless.
73% of people must agree that the mavs are CLEARLY the better team. I did read the right-ups fyi and found that the mavs one actually was plausible, and not as biased as yours

madiaz3
11-24-2009, 12:28 AM
Did you see Derek Fisher in the playoffs last year? Other than his one shot, he was essentially, well not, not just essentially, he was utterly worthless on both ends of the floor.

There's a huge difference between carrying your weight and then adding onto it.

At least in the finals Fisher posted FG% of .667, .444, .444, .455 and .571.
They weren't getting killed by Orlando PGs....

Even if you want to hold onto Augustine's last season, he still hasn't proven he can do anything as a starter, and guess what, neither has Duhon.

Also, Blondebomber, the voters being knicks fans has as much relevance as you being a Dirk fan defending the Mavs and Dirk.

BlondeBomber41
11-24-2009, 12:36 AM
There's a huge difference between carrying your weight and then adding onto it.

At least in the finals Fisher posted FG% of .667, .444, .444, .455 and .571.
They weren't getting killed by Orlando PGs....

Even if you want to hold onto Augustine's last season, he still hasn't proven he can do anything as a starter, and guess what, neither has Duhon.

Also, Blondebomber, the voters being knicks fans has as much relevance as you being a Dirk fan defending the Mavs and Dirk.

lol you are clueless. I guarantee you that most of the voters who voted Knicks were Knicks fans who saw "Knicks" in the title and David Lee in the lineup and didnt even consider anything else. Thats what happens when you have a forum full of 13 year olds though.

madiaz3
11-24-2009, 12:56 AM
lol you are clueless. I guarantee you that most of the voters who voted Knicks were Knicks fans who saw "Knicks" in the title and David Lee in the lineup and didnt even consider anything else. Thats what happens when you have a forum full of 13 year olds though.

More like, if I were to buy into your theory to some degree, Knicks fans are the only ones who see Chandler's decline every game, have always known that Lee and a defensive center is his best pairing, and realize just how terrible Chris Duhon is. It's not even funny, Chris Duhon cannot do the simplest of things right

This is ironic because we're arguing just how much you are OVERrating some of our players, instead of us trying to defend and elevate them.

BlondeBomber41
11-24-2009, 01:10 AM
More like, if I were to buy into your theory to some degree, Knicks fans are the only ones who see Chandler's decline every game, have always known that Lee and a defensive center is his best pairing, and realize just how terrible Chris Duhon is. It's not even funny, Chris Duhon cannot do the simplest of things right

This is ironic because we're arguing just how much you are OVERrating some of our players, instead of us trying to defend and elevate them.

Its because they are Knicks. Chandler is very talented but the Knicks basically tried to turn him into their #1 option and thats not him. He is our #3 and in this situation he would be so much better.

David Lee is a good hustle player and can rebound but he has absolutely no chance of stopping a MVP caliber PF and 1st Teamer in Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk is the hardest big man in the entire league to guard, and Lee isnt a good defender.

People seem to be totally ignoring my point about Boris Diaw even though its pretty obvious it would be a big deal... he is successful when he is playing at the 4/5, NOT as a small forward! He is the starting POWER FORWARD for the Bobcats and was the starting CENTER when he was in his prime year(s) with the Suns. He is in no way a small forward. He is slow footed, he cant shoot from the outside, and he cant defend athletic SF's. Lets not try and act like the production Diaw gives as a close to the basket type of player would mirror what he can do from the perimeter.

In 72 games last year Augustin shot 43% from three point land. I have faith that he can get out of his slump and get back to being a good 3 point shooter, especially with Dirk and JJ taking so much pressure off him. You people who think that he would be a problem because he cant run the team are dumb, because the offense wouldn't run through him. It would run through JJ and Dirk when they go inside out... DJ would have almost no ball handling responsibilties.

In a Brandon Roy dominated offense and with a shoot first PG in Mo Williams in a slow system there is no way David Lee is good enough to put up what he puts on in real life... no freakin way.

You love to point out the most obvious flaws of our team and act like they have none... its ridiculous.

Hustla23
11-24-2009, 01:32 AM
I'm not even being a sentimentalist homer but I think the Knicks take this one by a very, very slim margin.

KoB's writeup was also very well researched and cohesively put together.

The Mavericks' front court undoubtedly trumps the Knicks' front court but I don't agree with the idea that it beats them in every category. Camby and Lee are much better rebounders than Dirk and Horford. It's a wash defensively but the Mavericks' front court is better offensively, by a large margin, and that's what gives them the edge.

The back court , without question, belongs to the Knicks. Roy and Williams are much better than JJ and his crew of bums. Chris Duhon sucks unbelievably and would be better suited not even being on the team.

The Knicks have the better bench as well IMO.

Once again, it's a slight margin, but I side with the Knicks.

Giaps
11-24-2009, 01:50 AM
Not exactly shocked to see that 3 out of the 4 votes so far for the Knicks are Knicks fans... I hope the intelligent Knicks fans on here will realize that this in no way helps the real Knicks and actually votes for the better team.
I guess I'm stoopit. Guy doesn't agree with opinions on a sports forum so he insults intelligence.

Brilliant.

BlondeBomber41
11-24-2009, 01:53 AM
I guess I'm stoopit. Guy doesn't agree with opinions on a sports forum so he insults intelligence.

Brilliant.

No, just a homer. Not stupid.

If you think its just a coincidence that almost every non Knick fan has voted for the Mavs then you are kidding yourselves....

juggla53
11-24-2009, 01:53 AM
I dont think either of these teams are that great and im not sure either would be title contenders in the real NBA. But since this isnt the real NBA ill go with Dallas, Dirk gives them to many matchup problems and horford will do well on the boards and giving them some easy buckets inside with J.Johnson and B-Roy essentially canceling eachother out.

Hustla23
11-24-2009, 01:53 AM
I guess I'm stoopit. Guy doesn't agree with opinions on a sports forum so he insults intelligence.

Brilliant.
I guess you're the smart Knick fan then.

I voted for the Knicks because I thought David Stern created this poll to see where people want him to smuggle Lebron to

:(

thedfactor
11-24-2009, 02:49 AM
Wow Mavs dominate

KnicksorBust
11-24-2009, 08:06 AM
I agreed with the Knicks writeup. Much more balanced team.
The Mavs lineup gives you DJ, Chandler and Horford who are good but not great.

Thanks. :clap: I know he's got the more appealing roster (Joe Johnson AND Dirk had to start the season with monster records and stats?? Come on) with 2 stars so I busted *** on the writeup. Looks like it didn't matter I was done from the start.


There's a huge difference between carrying your weight and then adding onto it.

At least in the finals Fisher posted FG% of .667, .444, .444, .455 and .571.
They weren't getting killed by Orlando PGs....



Exactly. Fisher had a good finals and is a proven vet. We can't say the same for DJ.


Its because they are Knicks. Chandler is very talented but the Knicks basically tried to turn him into their #1 option and thats not him. He is our #3 and in this situation he would be so much better.

David Lee is a good hustle player and can rebound but he has absolutely no chance of stopping a MVP caliber PF and 1st Teamer in Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk is the hardest big man in the entire league to guard, and Lee isnt a good defender.

People seem to be totally ignoring my point about Boris Diaw even though its pretty obvious it would be a big deal... he is successful when he is playing at the 4/5, NOT as a small forward! He is the starting POWER FORWARD for the Bobcats and was the starting CENTER when he was in his prime year(s) with the Suns. He is in no way a small forward. He is slow footed, he cant shoot from the outside, and he cant defend athletic SF's. Lets not try and act like the production Diaw gives as a close to the basket type of player would mirror what he can do from the perimeter.

In 72 games last year Augustin shot 43% from three point land. I have faith that he can get out of his slump and get back to being a good 3 point shooter, especially with Dirk and JJ taking so much pressure off him. You people who think that he would be a problem because he cant run the team are dumb, because the offense wouldn't run through him. It would run through JJ and Dirk when they go inside out... DJ would have almost no ball handling responsibilties.

In a Brandon Roy dominated offense and with a shoot first PG in Mo Williams in a slow system there is no way David Lee is good enough to put up what he puts on in real life... no freakin way.

You love to point out the most obvious flaws of our team and act like they have none... its ridiculous.

You make some good points and obviously I'd play Diaw some at the 4 vs. Dirk, I should have adjusted my rotation for your team. However, Chandler has been playing the 4 for the Knicks so it's the same type of matchup. They're both forwards. Only mine is more talented on both ends and can do more with the ball.

You act like Lee only gets easy points on fastbreaks. That's not the case at all. He's never out on transition. His points come from pick and rolls, pick and pops and the occasionally offensive rebound putback. All those would be utilized just fine in a "slow system." If anything he'd have better players to run those screens with. His rebounding has been consistent his whole career. He put up 10.4rpg in 30 minutes before Mike D came to NY. His points are going up naturally as any players would. People need to stop acting like Knicks players stats are grossly inflated because they aren't.


I'm not even being a sentimentalist homer but I think the Knicks take this one by a very, very slim margin.

KoB's writeup was also very well researched and cohesively put together.

The Mavericks' front court undoubtedly trumps the Knicks' front court but I don't agree with the idea that it beats them in every category. Camby and Lee are much better rebounders than Dirk and Horford. It's a wash defensively but the Mavericks' front court is better offensively, by a large margin, and that's what gives them the edge.

The back court , without question, belongs to the Knicks. Roy and Williams are much better than JJ and his crew of bums. Chris Duhon sucks unbelievably and would be better suited not even being on the team.

The Knicks have the better bench as well IMO.

Once again, it's a slight margin, but I side with the Knicks.

Thanks for the compliment and yeah I couldn't believe he was even trying to say he had better rebounding.


I guess I'm stoopit. Guy doesn't agree with opinions on a sports forum so he insults intelligence.

Brilliant.


I guess you're the smart Knick fan then.

I voted for the Knicks because I thought David Stern created this poll to see where people want him to smuggle Lebron to

:(

:laugh:

BlondeBomber41
11-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the compliment and yeah I couldn't believe he was even trying to say he had better rebounding.

Dirk - 8.9 RPG
Horford -10.1 RPG

Equals 19 RPG

Camby - 9.3 RPG
Lee - 9.9 RPG

Equals 19.2 RPG

If you actually paid attention to what I said you would see I said there wasn't a single thing you had an ADVANTAGE in, which doesn't mean that I am saying we would have the advantage either... Its just saying there isn't anything you have a real advantage in. Rebounding included. If it wasn't for the fact that Dirk is surrounded by great rebounders on the Mavs his rebounding number would be greater.

KnicksorBust
11-24-2009, 07:16 PM
damn I got stomped. :laugh:

Congrats BB41. Joe Johnson + Dirk Nowitzki is an incredible combo especially with the way they are playing right now.

BlondeBomber41
11-24-2009, 08:09 PM
damn I got stomped. :laugh:

Congrats BB41. Joe Johnson + Dirk Nowitzki is an incredible combo especially with the way they are playing right now.

Thanks, you too man. Great team you put together as well :)

thesparky33
11-24-2009, 11:08 PM
This is a tough decision. It's not an easy victory for either team, so everyone who says "Mavs easily" probably didnt spend more than 3 seconds looking at the teams.

But anyway, my opinion on the matchup:

The notion that Dirk needs a top PG to produce (Nash, Harris - even though he wasnt at the time, and Kidd) is ridiculous. He's a matchup nightmare for any opponent, regardless of who's feeding him the ball. I'm guessing Diaw or Camby will be assigned to guard him, which might create defensive mismatches for the Knicks.

Also of note: Augustin will have a tough time being the starting PG, no way around that. He's not even starting on the Bobcats...

I'm going to say Mavs win here, but its a tough decision. Dirk is the X-factor. I think the Knicks have an advantage in PGs, and the Mavs have an advantage in the frontcourt, and both advantages seem to even themselves out, but I just believe that in terms of go-to guys, I think Dirk takes the Mavs over the top here.

Both GM's did a great job. Well done.