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lakerssssssss
11-18-2009, 10:39 PM
Magic Johnson said the NBA should retire #23 in honor of jordan


James said last week he would change jersey numbers next season in honor of Michael Jordan, and said no other players should wear it, either.

Critics of his plan said other players before Jordan deserved the honor at least as much, with some using Johnson and Larry Bird as examples. But Johnson praised James for showing respect to those before him, and said he and Bird would be supportive.

"We care about the game," Johnson said Wednesday. "We care about what's important and so if everybody votes in terms of nobody should wear 23, we're going to be the first ones to say it should happen."

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/11/18/magic.jordan.23.ap/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt2

ARMIN12NBA
11-18-2009, 10:50 PM
Nice to see ESPN give their input...Oops, I meant Magic. :rolleyes:

VCaintdead17
11-18-2009, 11:07 PM
My question is, why are they doing all this "retire 23" **** now? Don't you think its a bit distracting? They should have done this in the offseason.

Toenail Clipper
11-18-2009, 11:10 PM
This issue about retiring Jordan's jersey is stupid. What is it going to achieve? Nothing. So why do it? Because a dumbass named LeBron said so.

dodie53
11-18-2009, 11:10 PM
they should mike james' number first

sofargone
11-18-2009, 11:14 PM
Jordan is no Wayne Gretzky. Jordan is no Jackie Robinson.

Max Power
11-18-2009, 11:26 PM
Jordan is no Wayne Gretzky. Jordan is no Jackie Robinson.

He is definately no Jackie Robinson.

No Gretzky either. Jordan, unlike Gretzky, actually made his sport popular.

Jaji
11-18-2009, 11:28 PM
They shouldn't allow bald heads or fadeaways either.

JordansBulls
11-18-2009, 11:33 PM
Jordan is no Wayne Gretzky. Jordan is no Jackie Robinson.

You are right, he never lost with Home Court Advantage or in hockey Home Ice Advantage or in Baseball Home Field Advantage.:D


Truthfully speaking since he didn't get the finals mvp named after himself after having the most ever then he should get something. If West can get the LOGO then I'm sure MJ and other guys should get something done in their honor.

clutchski
11-18-2009, 11:33 PM
He is definately no Jackie Robinson.

No Gretzky either. Jordan, unlike Gretzky, actually made his sport popular.

HAHA you don't think Gretzky made hockey popular?!?! :eyebrow:

HoopsDrive
11-18-2009, 11:36 PM
Nope. I lived abroad for more than 10 years and never heard of Gretzky, the NHL or hockey prior to coming to Canada.

Jordan on the other hand, when he came out, basketball instantly became a hit with people buying NBA jerseys and playing street ball. Without Jordan, people where I lived wouldn't be as interested in bball as they are now.

sofargone
11-18-2009, 11:48 PM
im Canadian so i guess im pretty biased when it comes to the whole gretzky part of my post. No one came close to gretzky though. there will never be another gretzky. gretzky is the greatest of all time. check his stats.

also jordansbulls....how dare you downplay robinsons accomplishments? he broke the race barrier in pro sports. he could have been the worst baseball player ever (which he wasnt) but he was the first black baseball player. so is it really worth mentioning that he lost with home field advantage?

As far as retiring jordans number goes... OK he made bball popular you can argue...but i think nike and mcdonalds are owed just as much into the marketing aspect of jordans success.

and for those of you who have never heard of wayne gretzky :pity:

HoopsDrive
11-18-2009, 11:52 PM
and for those of you who have never heard of wayne gretzky :pity:

He really did not have much of an impact outside North America and in already established hockey communities.

I know that Gretzky is to Canada what Pele is to Brazil or Maradona is to Argentina but in no way has he had the same worldwide impact as the latter two had or Jordan.

ChiSox219
11-18-2009, 11:56 PM
im Canadian so i guess im pretty biased when it comes to the whole gretzky part of my post. No one came close to gretzky though. there will never be another gretzky. gretzky is the greatest of all time. check his stats.


I agree Gretzky was unbelievable and I have no problem with his number being retired but his long term global effect on his sport pales in comparison to what Jordan did for the NBA.



also jordansbulls....how dare you downplay robinsons accomplishments? he broke the race barrier in pro sports. he could have been the worst baseball player ever (which he wasnt) but he was the first black baseball player. so is it really worth mentioning that he lost with home field advantage?


How about the other African Americans that came into MLB the same year as Jackie? Why don't they deserve the same honor when Larry Doby suffered the same torture as Robinson just got less press coverage because he was the 2nd.



As far as retiring jordans number goes... OK he made bball popular you can argue...but i think nike and mcdonalds are owed just as much into the marketing aspect of jordans success.

and for those of you who have never heard of wayne gretzky :pity:

Who was the face of Nike and McDonald's?

sofargone
11-18-2009, 11:58 PM
Who was the face of Nike and McDonald's?
Jordan?

ChiSox219
11-19-2009, 12:03 AM
Jordan?

Do you think Nike and McDonald's would have had as successful campaigns if they had used someone else? Because I don't.

iHop
11-19-2009, 12:07 AM
If the NBA retires Jordans number why not retire, number 33 Larry Bird, number 32 Magic Johnson or even Oscar Robinson number 1

LakeShowRaider
11-19-2009, 12:08 AM
This issue about retiring Jordan's jersey is stupid. What is it going to achieve? Nothing. So why do it? Because a dumbass named LeBron said so.

:clap:

sofargone
11-19-2009, 12:09 AM
Do you think Nike and McDonald's would have had as successful campaigns if they had used someone else? Because I don't.
I agree i just dont think Jordan should have his number retired, maybe do something else for him. I would be in favour of changing the NBA logo to have the Jordan silhouette logo, but im sure that there would be copyright issues involved....what do you guys think about that?

ChiSox219
11-19-2009, 12:11 AM
If the NBA retires Jordans number why not retire, number 33 Larry Bird, number 32 Magic Johnson or even Oscar Robinson number 1

I don't hear any players calling for that. Current greats and past greats are calling for the retiring of 23. Plus none of those guys match Jordan, the only guy with a decent case, IMO, is Bill Russell.

I don't think the league will retired #23 BUT I do think it will get to a point where players just completely stop wearing 23. It'll be like an unwritten rule and anyone that dares to don 23 in the future will catch a lot of **** from vets around the league. Just a prediction...

ChiSox219
11-19-2009, 12:15 AM
I agree i just dont think Jordan should have his number retired, maybe do something else for him. I would be in favour of changing the NBA logo to have the Jordan silhouette logo, but im sure that there would be copyright issues involved....what do you guys think about that?

For the Jumpman to become the new NBA logo, Nike would have to take a dump truck, fill it with money, dump it at NBA headquarters, go back, refill and pile on some more cash.

It just won't happen.

I don't see what the big deal is, there really haven't been any significant players to wear 23, in fact the most significant one is Lebron who is the one leading the movement. I have to wonder, it Jordan wore some random number like 83, if this would even be a big deal.

The #23 is instantly associated with Jordan, you can't say the same about Magic + 32 or Bird + 33

smith&wesson
11-19-2009, 12:16 AM
with all due respect to jordan. if his number gets retired in the whole league then other players are also deserving of this not just him.

to name a few.

oscar robertson- 12x all star, 1 mvp, 3 all star mvps

bob cousy- 6x nba champion, 13x all star 1x mvp, 2x all star mvp

bill russell- 11x time nba champion, 5x mvp, 12x nba all star

larry bird - 3x nba champion, 3x mvp, 12x all star, 2x nba finals mvp,

majic johnson - 5x nba champion, 3x mvp, 12x all star, 3x finals mvp

kareem abdul jabbar - 6x nba champion, 6x mvp, 19x all star,
2x nba finals mvp, highest career point total of all time

last but not least,

michael jordan 6x nba champion, 5x nba mvp, 14x all star, 6x nba finals mvp, 1x defensive player.

you can argue any of these, but bill russell and kareem abdul jabbar you simply can not argue, just look at theyre acomplishments...


if jordan gets his number retired, at least some of these players deserve the same.

HoopsDrive
11-19-2009, 12:26 AM
I think you guys are overlooking the fact that Jordan was so much more important than any of these guys at making bball a popular sport worldwide.

Whether he had help from marketing, conglomerate giants is not really an issue. The fact remains that without Jordan, bball would not be as global a sport as it is now. There are countless countries in South America and Asia that were first thrust into the NBA and basketball by Jordan's feats. I can attest to this because I lived in one of those countries and before Jordan, bball had the same status as billiards and curling. After Jordan, kids everywhere in my town started buying the Nike line, playing street bball and thrusting their tongue out for some reason.

sofargone
11-19-2009, 12:29 AM
I think you guys are overlooking the fact that Jordan was so much more important than any of these guys at making bball a popular sport worldwide.

Whether he had help from marketing, conglomerate giants is not really an issue. The fact remains that without Jordan, bball would not be as global a sport as it is now. There are countless countries in South America and Asia that were first thrust into the NBA and basketball by Jordan's feats. I can attest to this because I lived in one of those countries and before Jordan, bball had the same status as billiards and curling. After Jordan, kids everywhere in my town started buying the Nike line, playing street bball and thrusting their tongue out for some reason.

fair enough. but does that really mean that no one should ever be able to wear 23 again?

ARMIN12NBA
11-19-2009, 12:32 AM
I agree Gretzky was unbelievable and I have no problem with his number being retired but his long term global effect on his sport pales in comparison to what Jordan did for the NBA.



How about the other African Americans that came into MLB the same year as Jackie? Why don't they deserve the same honor when Larry Doby suffered the same torture as Robinson just got less press coverage because he was the 2nd.



Who was the face of Nike and McDonald's?

That's the whole thing. You answered your question. THEY (meaning other African Americans coming into baseball after Jackie Robinson) were NOT first unlike Jackie Robinson who WAS first.

ChiSox219
11-19-2009, 12:33 AM
fair enough. but does that really mean that no one should ever be able to wear 23 again?

The players seem ok with it, and the Heat already retired 23 for Jordan.

ARMIN12NBA
11-19-2009, 12:37 AM
For the Jumpman to become the new NBA logo, Nike would have to take a dump truck, fill it with money, dump it at NBA headquarters, go back, refill and pile on some more cash.

It just won't happen.

I don't see what the big deal is, there really haven't been any significant players to wear 23, in fact the most significant one is Lebron who is the one leading the movement. I have to wonder, it Jordan wore some random number like 83, if this would even be a big deal.

The #23 is instantly associated with Jordan, you can't say the same about Magic + 32 or Bird + 33

If Jordan wore #83, then the #83 would also be just as popular as the #23 is now. The player made the number, not the other way around. The #23 was just another "random" number before Jordan.

All I have to say on this issue is that Jordan was a Bull. His jersey should be retired by the Bulls. If any other team wants to retire #23, then they can, but the NBA should not require it. Personally, I would hate Jordan's number being retired in Staples Center as he doesn't belong next to Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Goodrich, West, and Worthy in terms of Lakers glory.

BTW--I feel the same way with Gretzky. Only Jackie Robinson deserved his number completely retired as what he did transcended the sport itself. When I think of Jackie Robinson, I think of the entire Civil Rights movement and not just baseball in of in itself.

ChiSox219
11-19-2009, 12:38 AM
That's the whole thing. You answered your question. THEY (meaning other African Americans coming into baseball after Jackie Robinson) were NOT first unlike Jackie Robinson who WAS first.

So what? Doby had to endure the same thing Jackie did, he came into the league the same year as Robinson. Like I said, the difference was Jackie got the media coverage as a martyr figure.

And why not retire the first African American's number in the NFL (came before Jackie Robinson), or NBA?

Why not retire the first Latino player's number when there are almost 4 times as many hispanics in MLB compare to African Americans...

IDB Josh M
11-19-2009, 12:39 AM
There are other ways of honoring a person without actually going so far as to retire his number. Like what the NBA did with Bill Russell. They named the NBA Finals MVP the Bill Russell award. Why not just name the Season MVP the Michael Jordan award? In fact, not only is that more appropriate, but I think that's an even greater honor than the league retiring a number.

ChiSox219
11-19-2009, 12:40 AM
If Jordan wore #83, then the #83 would also be just as popular as the #23 is now. The player made the number, not the other way around. The #23 was just another "random" number before Jordan.


Which makes my point, there's no other athlete that made a number so significant which is why the number should be retired in his honor.

HoopsDrive
11-19-2009, 12:48 AM
fair enough. but does that really mean that no one should ever be able to wear 23 again?

Personally, I think 23 should be retired. His charisma, marketability, global appeal, not to mention his unsurpassed skills and accomplishments, just propelled bball to a whole other level.

Bruno
11-19-2009, 12:55 AM
We're in the beginning of what's going to be a great season in the history of the NBA, and all we can talk about is forty-six year old Michael Jordan. How the hell are we as fans, and the contemporary players ever supposed to get over the "Jordan Era" if we never shut the hell up about him and all his greatness?

MJ hasn't be a force in the NBA for a damn decade and he still dominates the press.

LeBron did a brilliant job of bringing this up to divert the attention surrounding his own 2010 free agency hype.

I hope this goes away, this is the kinda stuff that should keep us from twiddling out thumbs in the offseason, not right now.

ARMIN12NBA
11-19-2009, 01:03 AM
Which makes my point, there's no other athlete that made a number so significant which is why the number should be retired in his honor.

It shouldn't. As I said, Jordan doesn't deserve to be up in the Lakers rafters. What he did, did not transcend the entire sport itself (ie Civil Rights Movement). Did he help advance the sport? Of course! At the same time, the same argument could be made that without Magic Johnson then the league would have stayed in tape delay for a much longer time which would have held the NBA back in terms of advancement for a long while. There is an argument for Bill Russel who had to endure so much hardship living in such a racist town like Boston and Russel also contributed to the Civil Rights Movement.

Not to mention the FACT that it is very possible (and likely) that players will come who will surpass Jordan. It is possible that 50 years from now, Jordan may not even be in the top 5 (which is why I disagree with Gretzky's # being retired as well). Jordan's # can't be retired on the basis that he is considered the GOAT now.

Jackie Robinson was the first. Whether you like it or not, he was the first. Thus, he had that significance that nobody can ever take from him. Ever.

JordansBulls
11-19-2009, 01:20 AM
with all due respect to jordan. if his number gets retired in the whole league then other players are also deserving of this not just him.

to name a few.

oscar robertson- 12x all star, 1 mvp, 3 all star mvps

bob cousy- 6x nba champion, 13x all star 1x mvp, 2x all star mvp

bill russell- 11x time nba champion, 5x mvp, 12x nba all star

larry bird - 3x nba champion, 3x mvp, 12x all star, 2x nba finals mvp,

majic johnson - 5x nba champion, 3x mvp, 12x all star, 3x finals mvp

kareem abdul jabbar - 6x nba champion, 6x mvp, 19x all star,
2x nba finals mvp, highest career point total of all time

last but not least,

michael jordan 6x nba champion, 5x nba mvp, 14x all star, 6x nba finals mvp, 1x defensive player.

you can argue any of these, but bill russell and kareem abdul jabbar you simply can not argue, just look at theyre acomplishments...


if jordan gets his number retired, at least some of these players deserve the same.

Kareem wore #33 and Bird wore #33 as well.
Russell wore #6 and Dr J wore #6 as well.


Anyway, MJ doesn't want his jersey retired unless others get theres as well.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2009/11/18/20091118_ahmad_jordan.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1