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View Full Version : Let's set the record straight with Allen Iverson



Boston Faithful
11-17-2009, 01:43 AM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

True, when he left they became better but they always needed a true point guard like Billups.

And the system Iverson went to was inevitably one of the worst possible situations for him. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and McDyess were used to their team play and Stuckey was trying to make his mark. Where does Iverson fit in there?

The truth is he's NOT a 6th man. He got 18 points on 8-12 shooting in 28 minutes in his best game this year. He can still play 35-40 minutes a night and get 25-30 points. He does need to be the focus though.

That's why the Knicks are perfect for him. They won't make the playoffs, but I can surely see Iverson getting them to 35 wins.

There's no reason to hate on Iverson. Do you think the situation would be any different for a Kobe Bryant, a Gilbert Arenas or a Dirk Nowitzki?

If they were traded and suddenly not the focus of the offense anymore? Any superstar would have complained. And for a guy who averaged 26.4 points per game on a 50 win team to accept being a sixth man on a 40 win team like the Pistons or one of the worst teams in the NBA (the Grizzlies) is absurd.

Iverson led the Sixers single handedly to the Finals in 2001. He's consistantly pumped up good team after good team for them his entire career until the end. He was never a cancer, he's just been misunderstood.

If he doesn't get a star role, he really should retire. He's getting disrespected like crazy.

Shady66
11-17-2009, 01:46 AM
I agree 100%

ZebraCity916
11-17-2009, 01:52 AM
Yeah, I don't know why everybody is hating on him so hard. I also agree 100%.

stawka
11-17-2009, 01:57 AM
Nice work. I like

ko8e24
11-17-2009, 01:58 AM
I've been caught up in the moment, and I too to an extent have been hating on the man, just because I don't see that yearning for a championship like other non-champion veterans. Let's see how this thing with the Knicks goes for AI. I've been well documented here on PSD saying that he, shaq and kobe were my favorite players to watch growing up. Best of luck to wutever he does.

abe_froman
11-17-2009, 02:02 AM
I've been caught up in the moment, and I too to an extent have been hating on the man, just because I don't see that yearning for a championship like other non-champion veterans. Let's see how this thing with the Knicks goes for AI. I've been well documented here on PSD saying that he, shaq and kobe were my favorite players to watch growing up. Best of luck to wutever he does.

no,he yearns for a ring(why bolted philly for den),he's just not willing to change himself/do whatever is wanted of him to get one.

Right Round
11-17-2009, 02:07 AM
I agree 100%. I would do anything to have him back on the 76ers, considering the team is mediocre, going nowhere, and is the worst in attendance. People don't realize that the Grizzlies had Iverson believing that he would get starters minutes. If Iverson wanted to be the sixth man, he wouldn't have gone to a pathetic team like the Grizzlies. Hopefully he goes to the Knicks so he can drop 20+ a night and show people that his career isn't over.

ryder78c
11-17-2009, 02:07 AM
:clap: 100% agreed

if he went to the cavs

C Shaq
PF anderson varejao??
Sf Lebron James
Sg Allen Iverson
PG Mo Williams

6th delonte west
Zydrunas Ilgauskas

BaustinSali08
11-17-2009, 02:09 AM
If he really wants respect, then he should play off the bench and earn a starting spot in the rotation. He is an aging player, who yes averaged 27 ppg two years ago, but that was two years ago and this is now. Play off the bench or retire.

Raph12
11-17-2009, 02:12 AM
Should thrive in the Knicks system, hell he can even play the point for them, god knows he's a step up from Duhon.

Highlight
11-17-2009, 02:19 AM
I agree as well. I said that in the last thread where everyone was bashing him. :(

SteveNash
11-17-2009, 02:21 AM
So here's the irony: The No. 1 thing that pushed Iverson out of Denver was not his give-me-the-ball attitude or any of his off-court vices.

The 33-year-old superstar whose game was built on speed had lost a step. Team officials detected it early in training camp. A.I. had difficulty keeping pace with journeymen such as Mateen Cleaves. In a new Denver system dedicated to straight-up defense, this was a fatal flaw.

When the Nuggets lost their season-opener in Utah on Oct. 29, Kroenke and Bearup watched the game on television from the owner's ranch deep in the woods of British Columbia. But they could clearly see what had to be done before the rest of the league realized Iverson had slipped.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12387870

Iverson was an undersized SG that relied on his athleticism. He was lucky enough to make it this far, it's over for him.


To the bitter end, Iverson will also believe the best way for his team to win is to make him the offense's focal point, and when that's no longer the case, "it's time for me to go."

He was unwilling to transition his game or ever fit a teams needs. That's why it's time for Iverson to go.

edison_yia
11-17-2009, 02:22 AM
i still htink he is capable of scoring 20 something points a game..but the dude is a selfish player...he needs to go to the charlotte bobcats where he can get most of the touch///

ink
11-17-2009, 02:32 AM
He does need to be the focus though.

Exactly. And as a "tweener" who is too small to play SG and not team oriented enough to be an effective PG for his team, he's more distraction than focus now. The league has moved on from the era of one player who dominates the way one player dominated in MJ's era. Kobe and Dirk are both far more rounded players btw. They know how and when to get their teammates involved, something AI sadly (for him) never learned.

Stunner
11-17-2009, 03:09 AM
Agree

PLAYERS FAN
11-17-2009, 03:15 AM
Exactly. And as a "tweener" who is too small to play SG and not team oriented enough to be an effective PG for his team, he's more distraction than focus now. The league has moved on from the era of one player who dominates the way one player dominated in MJ's era. Kobe and Dirk are both far more rounded players btw. They know how and when to get their teammates involved, something AI sadly (for him) never learned.


whoever thought Artest<Iverson in maturity!

Gideon
11-17-2009, 03:35 AM
100% agree! Come on Donnie Wlash don't mess this up!

sixer04fan
11-17-2009, 03:43 AM
I'm torn. I'm a loyal AI fan and understand he just really wants that ring and loves the game more than most that have played. I really do believe he can be a leader and could still hit 25ppg in the right situation. But at this point he has to realize he can't win a championship if he's scoring 25 ppg. If he really wants the ring, he's got to realize the big picture and change his play and attitude to help out a team. I wish he could swallow his pride and go come off the bench for a contender, try to be a better locker room presence, get the ring, and say goodbye to the game. It'd be a shame to see him leave on this kind of a note.

Lakersfan2483
11-17-2009, 03:49 AM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

True, when he left they became better but they always needed a true point guard like Billups.

And the system Iverson went to was inevitably one of the worst possible situations for him. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and McDyess were used to their team play and Stuckey was trying to make his mark. Where does Iverson fit in there?

The truth is he's NOT a 6th man. He got 18 points on 8-12 shooting in 28 minutes in his best game this year. He can still play 35-40 minutes a night and get 25-30 points. He does need to be the focus though.

That's why the Knicks are perfect for him. They won't make the playoffs, but I can surely see Iverson getting them to 35 wins.

There's no reason to hate on Iverson. Do you think the situation would be any different for a Kobe Bryant, a Gilbert Arenas or a Dirk Nowitzki?

If they were traded and suddenly not the focus of the offense anymore? Any superstar would have complained. And for a guy who averaged 26.4 points per game on a 50 win team to accept being a sixth man on a 40 win team like the Pistons or one of the worst teams in the NBA (the Grizzlies) is absurd.

Iverson led the Sixers single handedly to the Finals in 2001. He's consistantly pumped up good team after good team for them his entire career until the end. He was never a cancer, he's just been misunderstood.

If he doesn't get a star role, he really should retire. He's getting disrespected like crazy.

:clap: Finally, someone not bashing Iverson and showing him some respect. The man is a future hall of famer and one of the best shooting guards of all time. I understand he's a polarizing figure but it doesn't diminsh what he's accomplished over his career.

Lakersfan2483
11-17-2009, 03:55 AM
I don't believe that entire Detroit situation was Iverson's fault, it had a lot to do with Michael Curry and Dumars. Iverson was not the reason Detroit collapsed last season and took some unjustified heat from the media and outsiders looking in.

azkarraga
11-17-2009, 05:19 AM
He should retire

EdGein812
11-17-2009, 05:36 AM
Let's stop with the tomfoolery. This guy has become a joke. Look at his old man jowels. He's lost a step and can't get seperation anymore. It wasn't the Pistons fault or Micheal Curry's fault. The Pistons have 4 gaurds I would take over AI in a heartbeat. Why do you think absolutely nobody wanted him other than Memphis? And even then they knew enough to make him come off the bench. The simple fact that you have to defend him, shows how far he's fallen. He was a fantastic HOF. Loved him...but he's done.

EdGein812
11-17-2009, 05:40 AM
Blame the media. Blame the Pistons. Blame Micheal Curry. Blame Memphis. Blame Lionel Hollins.

It's like when my grandma started driving up curbs and going through red lights. For her own safety we had to try and take her license away but she wouldn't have it. She said she drove fine, and that we were trying to control her life. I'm sure she knew deep down but she was too proud to admit it. She couldn't accept the fact that she had reached that point in her life. It can be hard on grandma's and Iverson's but so life goes.

ChiSox219
11-17-2009, 05:47 AM
Let's stop with the tomfoolery. This guy has become a joke. Look at his old man jowels. He's lost a step and can't get seperation anymore. It wasn't the Pistons fault or Micheal Curry's fault. The Pistons have 4 gaurds I would take over AI in a heartbeat. Why do you think absolutely nobody wanted him other than Memphis? And even then they knew enough to make him come off the bench. The simple fact that you have to defend him, shows how far he's fallen. He was a fantastic HOF. Loved him...but he's done.

+1

Iverson makes his team worse on both offense and defense.

GspLAL
11-17-2009, 06:00 AM
It's not him coming off the bench a problem, if you're a player of his caliber of course you wouldn't come off the bench. The problem is him thinking he's bigger and more important than the team.

JasonJohnHorn
11-17-2009, 06:45 AM
You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

This may aply to most players, but there are players whose game drops quickly. When Isaih Rider for example joined the Lakers he put up huge numbers the first few weeks of the season and then found his way to the bench. When asked why he benched him, Jackson replied (and I'm paraphrasing) that he was in great shaped when he came in and his level of play was high and that level of play just dropped off the map half way through the season. The next year, just two years after putting up all-star-ish numbers Rider couldn't even make an NBA roster.

When players are uaround only 6-feet and on the wrong side of 30, and have personal issues and make bad choices in the game and think they are what they were when they were 27, then yeah, their talent level drops off. Can Iverson still put up 20+ a game? Sure yeah, but he can't put up numbers he put up 2 years ago. Younger players from two years ago are better, and a lot of the prime guys are as good as they were two years ago, so Iverson just can't keep up and any team in the league that would rely on him as a primary scorer will not make the playoffs. He's still a great talent, but his size limits him and in the past he has depended on his speed to make up for his size, and that speed is not where it used to be.

That and he's been acting like a baby with no sense of team play.

stawka
11-17-2009, 06:54 AM
If he were to come off the bench for the Clippers/Grizzlies then I'd say just retire because he's on a mediocre team and should be starting for them. If he's on a contending team (Cavs/Celtics/Magic/Lakers/Spurs), then come off the bench and be that massive spark. Too much disrespect for a living legend

Cessna
11-17-2009, 07:06 AM
sad...Iverson was a hero to me for so long...how the mighty have fallen...

JayW_1023
11-17-2009, 07:08 AM
AI hasn't been a winner for a long time...his Finals tenure was more the credit to Larry Brown...who surrounded him with defensive players who didn't complain about touches. Put Iverson on a team where there are other talented offensive players that may take away his 25-plus shots a game...and he'll be the linchpin of disarray rather sooner than later. Iverson has worn out his welcome in this league...and I'd say good riddance.

TheWatcher34
11-17-2009, 09:35 AM
we wanna see Iverson play and score.....sign with the Knicks !!!

bagwell368
11-17-2009, 09:38 AM
:clap: Finally, someone not bashing Iverson and showing him some respect. The man is a future hall of famer and one of the best shooting guards of all time. I understand he's a polarizing figure but it doesn't diminsh what he's accomplished over his career.

Polarizing? He's one of the dozen most toxic players in NBA history. He's beyond "polarizing". He's a gifted and troubled, and ultimately a failure in terms of winning, or being a teammate. I wouldn't take the guy under any circumstances. No way.

sintaks12
11-17-2009, 10:13 AM
A future HOF player that can put up 25 at any time, loves to push, would thrive in Dantoni's offense to join an already dysfunctional team who is in dyer of someone (anyone please) with some balls... oh and he'll come at the vet min. Where do I sign? Washed up, toxic, too small, blah, blah, blah... who cares? At the vet min, this is a no brainer for NY. For the love of god, we're starting Chris Duhon. I don't need to repeat that do I?

Reddd
11-17-2009, 10:19 AM
I think he's capable of putting up 20 points on a given night and being a future HOF and at the same time being stuck on the Grizz bench, that's BS, but I guess he has something to do with it also, I mean what was he thinking when he went to Memphis, that he's gonna star over O.J Mayo?
He dragged himself into this Memphis mess.

Lol I remember a sig that one has or had in PSD which was an AI Grizzlies sig which said:Now it's personal! :rolleyes:

ink
11-17-2009, 10:49 AM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'.

That right there is inaccurate. A lot of us are saying that he is basically the same as ever and that's what teams don't really want. They want team-oriented players these days because that's how the league runs. It's AI's style, not just his playing ability, that's out-of-date. He's frustrated because he never got the memo that said the league is changing radically. He still thinks it's 2001.

CB4AB7VC15
11-17-2009, 11:03 AM
Who cares if he doesn't win a title, say Malone and Payton won the title with the Lakers that year, would it change your perception of them? No. Would it have been their titles or Kobe and Shaqs.......I respect AI for his game and not riding other peoples **** just to win a title......

Tigers4Life
11-17-2009, 11:46 AM
As a long time AI fan (since he was a sophomore at Georgetown), I will say this. I have enjoyed watching this guy play for 13 years now and I can only say that I am dissappointed. When Dumars traded Billups for AI last season, although it was tough to see Detroits centerpiece traded, I was extatic to see AI in a Pistons uniform. But we all know how that turned out. We(Pistons) did not bring AI in to run the team, but more as a veteran leader to groom Stuckey and Bynum (also salary reasons). To watch the way he handled himself here made me nothing but sick. He has been nothing but dominant in his years but in every star's career, they need to understand what will happen. Every player has the downfall late in their career. Those players just have to swallow their pride and do what they have to do in order to be an asset, rather than a liability. I hate to say it, but AI will most likely go down as one of the best players ever to not win a championship, and that is sad.

SteveNash
11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
A future HOF player that can put up 25 at any time, loves to push, would thrive in Dantoni's offense to join an already dysfunctional team who is in dyer of someone (anyone please) with some balls... oh and he'll come at the vet min. Where do I sign? Washed up, toxic, too small, blah, blah, blah... who cares? At the vet min, this is a no brainer for NY. For the love of god, we're starting Chris Duhon. I don't need to repeat that do I?

D'Antoni's system requires good decision making and good shooting, you know the things AI lacks.

ink
11-17-2009, 04:53 PM
D'Antoni's system requires good decision making and good shooting, you know the things AI lacks.

Yeah, I've never understood the assumption that AI would work well in D'Antoni's system just because it's up-tempo and AI is fast. Like you say, decision making and good shooting are critical. Besides, D'Antoni gives his players very defined roles. Improvising and looking for your own shot every possession isn't a role.

Dmagic87
11-17-2009, 05:06 PM
Yeah, I've never understood the assumption that AI would work well in D'Antoni's system just because it's up-tempo and AI is fast. Like you say, decision making and good shooting are critical. Besides, D'Antoni gives his players very defined roles. Improvising and looking for your own shot every possession isn't a role.

AI would be a SG on the knicks. TD is eventually going to start. He has already proven to be our best PG.

BenFrank
11-17-2009, 05:16 PM
add me to the agree list!

amoore87
11-17-2009, 05:17 PM
why does everyone say he's a cancer..cuz he scores 30 a game, takes a lot of shots, and hasnt one a ring???..well it seems as though ppl r trying as hard as possible to get lebron a ring..where was ai's help?!?!..best help was mutombo/mckie in 2001

SteveNash
11-17-2009, 05:18 PM
AI would be a SG on the knicks. TD is eventually going to start. He has already proven to be our best PG.

AI wants/needs the ball in his hands. It doesn't matter what position you put him at. If NY signs AI and lets him do what he wants then he'll ruin D'Antoni's system.

smith&wesson
11-17-2009, 05:33 PM
the person who made this thread actually did some research. I respect that. Im soo tired of posters just jumping on the media bandwag.

when iverson last got decent mins, and was given a real chance he produced. not only did he produce, but he co-existed with carmelo anthony.
people are forever calling this guy an egotistical maniac. If thats the case how was carmelo able to play along side iverson with out any mishaps ?
also iverson average 26 points and 7 assists per game that year.

grant it billups was a better fit on the nuggets and was able to take them to the wcf. does that make iverson a bad player ? because a true point gaurd was needed in denver and not a shooting gaurd.

So iverson goes to detroit where rip is the starting shooting gaurd. detroit did this move for cap releif and only cap relief. how is it fair to say its iversons fault ?? ben gordon is now asuming the same role and detroit isnt exactly any better then they were last year. then memphis goes after him. this is the same iverson who didnt want to come off the bench for rip and some how memphis managment thinks that he would be willing to come off the bench for mayo.

iverson will join a team that knows how to use him. he will average 20 points per game at least and he will start.

if he goes to clevland he can start at the two for west.
if he goes to the raptors he can start at the 2.
if he goes to golden state he can start.
even new york.
there are teams out there that can use him properly.

the guys a lock for the hall of fame. he was one of my fav players to watch groing up. he was alot of fans fav players to watch because his game was extreamly excighting. now every ones talking **** about the guy... why ?

you think kobe wants to come off the bench ? how bout pierce ? carter ? ray allen ? dirk ? these are players of iversons generation. Imagine if one of them was traded and asked to come off the bench do you think they would react any different ? do you think carter would come off the bench for pietrus ?

i mean if your a fan and you really dont like iverson then thats cool, its your opinion, but if its because you read some article by sam smith or some other ****** and you dont have a critical mind of your own to make a conclusion, well your exactly the type of fan im talking about. a media band wag fan.

have your own mind.

albertc86
11-17-2009, 05:36 PM
i don't think Iverson is washed up but he's not the superstar he thinks he is.

ink
11-17-2009, 05:39 PM
the person who made this thread actually did some research. I respect that. Im soo tired of posters just jumping on the media bandwag.

So am I. That's why I ignored the media hype around Iverson at the start of the decade.

randomness
11-17-2009, 05:50 PM
agree but it's kind of his fault for getting disrespect. he's gotta earn it back and prove to the nba that's he can still play

smith&wesson
11-17-2009, 06:00 PM
So am I. That's why I ignored the media hype around Iverson at the start of the decade.


I know your reasons for not liking him and atleast you have reasons. I'm talking about the posters who come on here read other posters and say yeah iverson should retire, iverson sux, iversons image is ruined. and they dont even really look at the facts. like why things didnt work out in detroit. why memphis would go after him knowing he doesnt want to come off the bench. it just doesnt make sence to me. no doubt iversons got to earn his respect back but at the same time i think he needs to be given a real chance to do that. i dont see how a team like clevland cant use him. they dont know what team ball is anwways. lebron iso's all day isnt exactly team ball.

lakerssssssss
11-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

True, when he left they became better but they always needed a true point guard like Billups.

And the system Iverson went to was inevitably one of the worst possible situations for him. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and McDyess were used to their team play and Stuckey was trying to make his mark. Where does Iverson fit in there?

The truth is he's NOT a 6th man. He got 18 points on 8-12 shooting in 28 minutes in his best game this year. He can still play 35-40 minutes a night and get 25-30 points. He does need to be the focus though.

That's why the Knicks are perfect for him. They won't make the playoffs, but I can surely see Iverson getting them to 35 wins.

There's no reason to hate on Iverson. Do you think the situation would be any different for a Kobe Bryant, a Gilbert Arenas or a Dirk Nowitzki?

If they were traded and suddenly not the focus of the offense anymore? Any superstar would have complained. And for a guy who averaged 26.4 points per game on a 50 win team to accept being a sixth man on a 40 win team like the Pistons or one of the worst teams in the NBA (the Grizzlies) is absurd.

Iverson led the Sixers single handedly to the Finals in 2001. He's consistantly pumped up good team after good team for them his entire career until the end. He was never a cancer, he's just been misunderstood.

If he doesn't get a star role, he really should retire. He's getting disrespected like crazy.


I completely agree

TheWatcher34
11-17-2009, 06:15 PM
Why did he ever have to leave Philly in the first place.....

lakerssssssss
11-17-2009, 06:21 PM
where is chronz???

ink
11-17-2009, 06:26 PM
they dont know what team ball is anwways. lebron iso's all day isnt exactly team ball.

Agreed. But there is only one ball. Shaq, Lebron AND AI on one team?? Oh well, at least they're all humble. :cool: They shouldn't have any problem sharing. lol.

JLynn943
11-17-2009, 06:30 PM
where is chronz???

haha, I was wondering that too. We're getting his posts through ink anyway

smith&wesson
11-17-2009, 06:45 PM
Agreed. But there is only one ball. Shaq, Lebron AND AI on one team?? Oh well, at least they're all humble. :cool: They shouldn't have any problem sharing. lol.


shaq basically gets his points off of ofensive rebounds, put backs, i dont know if he is still good enough to have plays called for him. lebron needs someone else on the team that can create and score. mo will kind of disapears in important games...

i dont know i think that would be the best fit for iverson at this point. too be like a 2nd scoaring option on the floor for a team that doesnt play much team ball. because like you said he isnt the most team oriented player.

smith&wesson
11-17-2009, 06:55 PM
haha, i was wondering that too. We're getting his posts through ink anyway


lol

ink
11-17-2009, 06:57 PM
haha, I was wondering that too. We're getting his posts through ink anyway

haha. Not sure if he would appreciate that. He's probably already made his points. Me too, so I'm taking a holiday from AI threads from here on (famous last words). lol.

JLynn943
11-17-2009, 07:00 PM
haha. Not sure if he would appreciate that. He's probably already made his points. Me too, so I'm taking a holiday from AI threads from here on (famous last words). lol.

haha

Raoul Duke
11-17-2009, 09:48 PM
He is a tremendous talent. But show me one contender who is willing to mortgage their staus as a contender for a 34 year old six foot tall guard who demands 38 minutes a game(at least 10 in the 4th quarter) and doesn't want to play on the ball.

Theanswer76
11-17-2009, 11:00 PM
I hate when people critizise iverson, i dont really open Iverson forums anymore, people just talk out of there ***.. No respect for this man, he is who he is, he is BONAFIDE. The reason I like basketball is cause of him, my COUSIN, died because he refused to give his Iverson Jersey up. My cousin Kevin Johnson, SIX YEARS AGO. http://www.vibe.com/news/news_headlines/2006/11/allen_iverson_pays_for_funeral/. That is just some of story, I actually MET iverson for the first time because of this incident.

bagwell368
11-17-2009, 11:52 PM
respect? **** that

tell me hand wringing AI fans - tell me, show me how many players AI made great when he played with them. Come on you scrap up a few, right?

When I see enough answers I'll post part II of the question.

JordansBulls
11-18-2009, 01:53 AM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

True, when he left they became better but they always needed a true point guard like Billups.

And the system Iverson went to was inevitably one of the worst possible situations for him. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and McDyess were used to their team play and Stuckey was trying to make his mark. Where does Iverson fit in there?

The truth is he's NOT a 6th man. He got 18 points on 8-12 shooting in 28 minutes in his best game this year. He can still play 35-40 minutes a night and get 25-30 points. He does need to be the focus though.

That's why the Knicks are perfect for him. They won't make the playoffs, but I can surely see Iverson getting them to 35 wins.

There's no reason to hate on Iverson. Do you think the situation would be any different for a Kobe Bryant, a Gilbert Arenas or a Dirk Nowitzki?

If they were traded and suddenly not the focus of the offense anymore? Any superstar would have complained. And for a guy who averaged 26.4 points per game on a 50 win team to accept being a sixth man on a 40 win team like the Pistons or one of the worst teams in the NBA (the Grizzlies) is absurd.

Iverson led the Sixers single handedly to the Finals in 2001. He's consistantly pumped up good team after good team for them his entire career until the end. He was never a cancer, he's just been misunderstood.

If he doesn't get a star role, he really should retire. He's getting disrespected like crazy.


People have started disliking Iverson ever since Billups went to Denver and the Nuggets got out of round 1.

Raph12
11-18-2009, 02:38 AM
People have started disliking Iverson ever since Billups went to Denver and the Nuggets got out of round 1.

No people disliked him since he went to jail before he got into college. But he was still had a tremendous impact on NBA basketball, think about it...

Before Allen Iverson got to the NBA: how many guys wore "thugged out" clothing? how many guys wore shooting sleeves? how many guys wore jersey #3? how many guys braided their hair? how many guys had excessive tatoos? how popular was the crossover? how many "little guys" dominated the scoreboard in a game full of giants?

I'm gonna say this before anyone else does, "how many guys skipped practise?" the point is, he has brought alot to the league, some good, some bad, but his impact on the game of basketball alone, is enough to make him HOF-worthy.

Confusion
11-18-2009, 02:42 AM
He's cocky which is the main reason I don't like him, other than that he's still a great player.

KingFai
11-18-2009, 02:53 AM
look what grizzlies did
signed and benched a guy who had problem to come off bench

don't say that thats iverson fault

ink
11-18-2009, 03:43 AM
No people disliked him since he went to jail before he got into college. But he was still had a tremendous impact on NBA basketball, think about it...

Before Allen Iverson got to the NBA: how many guys wore "thugged out" clothing? how many guys wore shooting sleeves? how many guys wore jersey #3? how many guys braided their hair? how many guys had excessive tatoos? how popular was the crossover? how many "little guys" dominated the scoreboard in a game full of giants?

If dislike even matters I can name other players I dislike more than AI. I find both Kobe and Lebron really aggravating personalities, much worse than AI, who is kind of a sympatico guy really. The difference is that I've come to respect Kobe especially because of the way he evolved his game, and Lebron is just a phenomenon whether you like him or not. AI just didn't evolve. His game is just not a winning team game. It has nothing to do with "dislike", and it definitely has nothing to do with arrests and other stuff I don't even read about.

Raph12
11-18-2009, 04:09 AM
If dislike even matters I can name other players I dislike more than AI. I find both Kobe and Lebron really aggravating personalities, much worse than AI, who is kind of a sympatico guy really. The difference is that I've come to respect Kobe especially because of the way he evolved his game, and Lebron is just a phenomenon whether you like him or not. AI just didn't evolve. His game is just not a winning team game. It has nothing to do with "dislike", and it definitely has nothing to do with arrests and other stuff I don't even read about.

His game evolved when he moved from Philly to Denver, but he can't play the role that teams like Detroit and Memphis wanted him to play. He wants to be the best player on w/e team he plays for and despite not agreeing with him, I can still respect the fact that he has too much pride to play second fiddle to someone he feels is inferior to him.

He said he's willing to take a lesser role and even come off the bench for a championship team, but playing behind, Mayo, Conley, Hamilton, Stuckey and even Will Bynum is not something this former MVP is okay with and I can respect that.

If he can't play on a team where he is happy, he should retire.

madiaz3
11-18-2009, 04:16 AM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.


False.

Stephon Marbury.

06-07: 16.4 ppg
08-09 3.8 ppg

1hardcore
11-18-2009, 04:52 AM
i still htink he is capable of scoring 20 something points a game..but the dude is a selfish player...he needs to go to the charlotte bobcats where he can get most of the touch///

I agree too!! But not Charlotte!!!! They a losing team.
And that's exactly why not may NBA teams want him right now because of his selfishness.....
I still think he's going to retire due to the fact that his heart doesnt seem like it's in it unless he'll accept the fact that he'll come off the bench of say... the Lakers!!!


I don't think he will though

EdGein812
11-18-2009, 06:34 AM
Let me save some effort and repost from the Memphis forum:

IVERSON ON 76'ERS: A 6' shooting guard who thrived on quickness, penetration, and creating contact. Excelled with the ball in his hands and carrying lesser talent on his back. A sure thing Hall of Famer.

IVERSON ON PISTONS: A 33 year old, 6' shooting guard who couldn't shoot, wouldn't pass, and couldn't defend. He had lost that deadly quickness, and could no longer turn the corner or beat the defender off the dribble.

Iverson tried to force his game that simply wasn't there anymore and it seemed obvious to everyone but him. If he still had game he would have started, it's that simple. It's not the Pistons fault he was absolutely awful. And to think he had the nerve to complain and gripe about them. There's a reason no one other than the Bobcats and Grizzlies were interested this off season. And that's only because of his HOF name, not his skills. The Pistons have 4 guards on their current roster that are marginally better than Iverson. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved Iverson with the 76'ers, as he was a phenomenal talent. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end as players get older and start to decline. It's kind of sad to blame the Pistons, however.

IVERSON ON GRIZZLIES: YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED! You guys have a good thing going. I don't think you really want him or need him, honestly. If he is willing to play 15 minutes off the bench and mentor the young guys then it could be worth it. I don't see that happening, though. Good luck this season! You guys are quickly becoming my 2nd team.

Was I right or was I right? Old man jowels is DONE!

EdGein812
11-18-2009, 06:42 AM
The guy had to choose between Charlotte and Memphis...hahahahaha. And Memphis even made him come off the bench! The worst team in the league - for years, wouldn't even start him. And let's be honest the only reason those two teams were interested - those two, awful, bottom of the barrel teams - was because of the name on the back of the jersey. A HOF name who could increase season ticket sales. PERIOD. If you don't see that you are as delusional as the man himself. His ego is so damn big it wont fit in any arena in the league i'm afraid. He's turning himself into a sad, sad spectacle. And now people talk of NY. Ha. Another winner. If he still had skills teams would be jumping all over this former HOF'er. He's not what he was! Sorry.

cyph34
11-18-2009, 08:03 AM
perfect scenario for AI would be he goes to the knicks, revives his career by becoming SOMEWHAT like Steve Nash in D'Antoni's system, which i believe is totally possible. If you recall in 04-05 and 05-06, he played the 1 on the 76ers and averaged 30,8,4 and 33,7,3 respectively. AI would set up Igoudala and Korver all the time, and play a pick and roll game w/ CWebb. AI CAN run a team, even tho he's more of a 2.

Starting lineup:
1 - AI
2 - Danilo
3 - Larry Hughes
4 - Wilson Chandler
5 - David Lee

6th man - AL Harrington

Looking at the team, all of them will get out and run like the Suns right now. This team will get out in transition and jack up 3s.

and plus NY is 1-9!!! AI would sell tickets and is a huge upgrade over Chris Duhon.

ewing
11-18-2009, 09:10 AM
No people disliked him since he went to jail before he got into college. But he was still had a tremendous impact on NBA basketball, think about it...

Before Allen Iverson got to the NBA: how many guys wore "thugged out" clothing? how many guys wore shooting sleeves? how many guys wore jersey #3? how many guys braided their hair? how many guys had excessive tatoos? how popular was the crossover? how many "little guys" dominated the scoreboard in a game full of giants?

I'm gonna say this before anyone else does, "how many guys skipped practise?" the point is, he has brought alot to the league, some good, some bad, but his impact on the game of basketball alone, is enough to make him HOF-worthy.


I am not going to say AI isn't a hall of famer but you dont get in for clutural impact either.

LE-SHAQ
11-18-2009, 09:32 AM
I would love to see AI with the Cavs, personally I think we need his scoring in a sixth man role. In the playoffs he would be the only proven scorer (besides Lebron) who can get his own shot. In the NBA it's not who starts its who finishes the game. Ai played very well with Lebron on the olympic team. We know Ai is under sized and he is not a defensive player (that is what killed us last year against the Magic) so I'm not sure if the Cavs have an interest. But I agree AI is not washed up and in our case we could get him cheap, we dont have to give up anyone to trade for him, and we need a proven all- star with playoff experience. Lebron, and Shaq are strong leaders so theres no chance AI could "mess up" the team I think it should be a no brainer for the Cavs. The Cavs really seem to like Mo, Bobbie, and West combo cant really argue with that. Still Ai would be a force to reckon with Lebron and Shaq on the floor specifically in the playoffs.

bagwell368
11-18-2009, 09:34 AM
respect? **** that

tell me hand wringing AI fans - tell me, show me how many players AI made great when he played with them. Come on you scrap up a few, right?

When I see enough answers I'll post part II of the question.

A resounding NOTHING and NOBODY was the answer.....

A great schoolyard thug of a player, he never made anyone better, never led any team/anyone anywhere but to stop cutting to the basket and stop setting picks and stop working and watch this massive ego **** up the works.

This is the piece of garbage you choose to venerate? Get some tape of the early 60's or mid 80's Celts, 80's Lakers, early 80's 76'ers. Defense, passing, fast breaks, good shot selection.

AI is on the all useless empty scorer team. Kiki, Dantley, Theus, Gervin.... and that's at best.

Know that Billy Idol song "Eyes without a face"? AI is "Talent without a clue".

EdGein812
11-18-2009, 09:37 AM
You guys are clueless. Can someone half intelligent respond to my post above?

Turtle55
11-18-2009, 09:40 AM
He's not as dominant as he was once able to be. So there's no way you can build an offense around him. If you can't build an offense around him then he won't be happy. He's probably done unless he signs up to lose with the Knicks.

BooCain
11-18-2009, 09:58 AM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

True, when he left they became better but they always needed a true point guard like Billups.

And the system Iverson went to was inevitably one of the worst possible situations for him. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and McDyess were used to their team play and Stuckey was trying to make his mark. Where does Iverson fit in there?

The truth is he's NOT a 6th man. He got 18 points on 8-12 shooting in 28 minutes in his best game this year. He can still play 35-40 minutes a night and get 25-30 points. He does need to be the focus though.

That's why the Knicks are perfect for him. They won't make the playoffs, but I can surely see Iverson getting them to 35 wins.

There's no reason to hate on Iverson. Do you think the situation would be any different for a Kobe Bryant, a Gilbert Arenas or a Dirk Nowitzki?

If they were traded and suddenly not the focus of the offense anymore? Any superstar would have complained. And for a guy who averaged 26.4 points per game on a 50 win team to accept being a sixth man on a 40 win team like the Pistons or one of the worst teams in the NBA (the Grizzlies) is absurd.

Iverson led the Sixers single handedly to the Finals in 2001. He's consistantly pumped up good team after good team for them his entire career until the end. He was never a cancer, he's just been misunderstood.

If he doesn't get a star role, he really should retire. He's getting disrespected like crazy.

I absolutely agree, he still can do his thang.

ink
11-18-2009, 11:52 AM
His game evolved when he moved from Philly to Denver...

Not nearly enough. Had he really evolved he would have been a starter in Detroit and he never would have been traded away from Denver in the first place. People talk as if "poor AI" was betrayed. That's nonsense. He just wasn't good enough to take the starting role because he couldn't evolve with the times. The game passed him by. He became a bench player because he couldn't adapt to three successive teams: Denver, Detroit, and Memphis. Just look at the explosion in success with the Nuggets once he left and a great PG showed up. He had his chances but he couldn't do anything with them. Obviously it wasn't the team and it wasn't his role that was the problem. The problem was with AI. He's a streetballer and that era is done.

Raph12
11-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Not nearly enough. Had he really evolved he would have been a starter in Detroit and he never would have been traded away from Denver in the first place. People talk as if "poor AI" was betrayed. That's nonsense. He just wasn't good enough to take the starting role because he couldn't evolve with the times. The game passed him by. He became a bench player because he couldn't adapt to three successive teams: Denver, Detroit, and Memphis. Just look at the explosion in success with the Nuggets once he left and a great PG showed up. He had his chances but he couldn't do anything with them. Obviously it wasn't the team and it wasn't his role that was the problem. The problem was with AI. He's a streetballer and that era is done.

Chauncey is a better fit in Denver than AI was and Detroit just wasn't a good fit for him, they needed a pass-first player, not another scorer.

He was more than successful in Denver, avging 26.5ppg while winning 50 games is pretty damn good. Fact is, they played the Spurs in 07 (who went on to win the NBA championship) and the Lakers in 08 (who went on to compete in the Finals), had they faced any other team in those two seasons, they'd have a much better chance.

Iverson can lead a team like the Bobcats to the playoffs (had Jackson not gone there first), he is a great fit for them or any other team that is in need of some scoring. Hell with Chris Paul out, he'd be great in New Orleans as well.

If he goes to NY (that is what most people are saying right?), than he will bring the old AI back and go for 25-30ppg, 7-10apg and 2+spg all the while leading them to a record better than a 10% success rate.

ink
11-18-2009, 12:57 PM
Chauncey is a better fit in Denver than AI was and Detroit just wasn't a good fit for him, they needed a pass-first player, not another scorer.

Chauncey is just a better NBA player. It's not about fit, unless you're talking about fitting with today's NBA, because today's NBA requires an ability to play with your team. AI's only real success came when they had to build an entire team around him. It's just not worth it. He just isn't good enough or complete enough to do that. Not team-oriented enough to be a PG, not efficient enough or tall enough to be a SG. It isn't just about fit with teams. Other players who get traded are able to "fit". AI wasn't. That right there is one of his biggest problems. An NBA player shouldn't have to be pampered and have teams "fit" him like Cinderella's glass slipper. He's supposed to "fit" the team he plays for. He has it backwards.

Turtle55
11-18-2009, 04:24 PM
Not nearly enough. Had he really evolved he would have been a starter in Detroit and he never would have been traded away from Denver in the first place. People talk as if "poor AI" was betrayed. That's nonsense. He just wasn't good enough to take the starting role because he couldn't evolve with the times. The game passed him by. He became a bench player because he couldn't adapt to three successive teams: Denver, Detroit, and Memphis. Just look at the explosion in success with the Nuggets once he left and a great PG showed up. He had his chances but he couldn't do anything with them. Obviously it wasn't the team and it wasn't his role that was the problem. The problem was with AI. He's a streetballer and that era is done.

This is the most accurate AI post I've seen yet.

EdGein812
11-18-2009, 06:06 PM
Let me save some effort and repost from the Memphis forum:

IVERSON ON 76'ERS: A 6' shooting guard who thrived on quickness, penetration, and creating contact. Excelled with the ball in his hands and carrying lesser talent on his back. A sure thing Hall of Famer.

IVERSON ON PISTONS: A 33 year old, 6' shooting guard who couldn't shoot, wouldn't pass, and couldn't defend. He had lost that deadly quickness, and could no longer turn the corner or beat the defender off the dribble.

Iverson tried to force his game that simply wasn't there anymore and it seemed obvious to everyone but him. If he still had game he would have started, it's that simple. It's not the Pistons fault he was absolutely awful. And to think he had the nerve to complain and gripe about them. There's a reason no one other than the Bobcats and Grizzlies were interested this off season. And that's only because of his HOF name, not his skills. The Pistons have 4 guards on their current roster that are marginally better than Iverson. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved Iverson with the 76'ers, as he was a phenomenal talent. Unfortunately, all good things come to an end as players get older and start to decline. It's kind of sad to blame the Pistons, however.

IVERSON ON GRIZZLIES: YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED! You guys have a good thing going. I don't think you really want him or need him, honestly. If he is willing to play 15 minutes off the bench and mentor the young guys then it could be worth it. I don't see that happening, though. Good luck this season! You guys are quickly becoming my 2nd team.

Was I right or was I right? Old man jowels is DONE!

The guy had to choose between Charlotte and Memphis...hahahahaha. And Memphis even made him come off the bench! The worst team in the league - for years, wouldn't even start him. And let's be honest the only reason those two teams were interested - those two, awful, bottom of the barrel teams - was because of the name on the back of the jersey. A HOF name who could increase season ticket sales. PERIOD. If you don't see that you are as delusional as the man himself. His ego is so damn big it wont fit in any arena in the league i'm afraid. He's turning himself into a sad, sad spectacle. And now people talk of NY. Ha. Another winner. If he still had skills teams would be jumping all over this former HOF'er. He's not what he was! Sorry.

desertrat218
11-18-2009, 06:12 PM
Nearly everyone today is saying he's 'washed up' and 'not what he used to be'. Less than two years ago (April-May 2008) Iverson was averaging 26.4 points per game on a Nuggets team that won over 50 games. You don't lose your game in a year and a half that dramatically to the point people are making it out to be unless there was a major injury.

True, when he left they became better but they always needed a true point guard like Billups.

And the system Iverson went to was inevitably one of the worst possible situations for him. Hamilton, Prince, Wallace and McDyess were used to their team play and Stuckey was trying to make his mark. Where does Iverson fit in there?

The truth is he's NOT a 6th man. He got 18 points on 8-12 shooting in 28 minutes in his best game this year. He can still play 35-40 minutes a night and get 25-30 points. He does need to be the focus though.

That's why the Knicks are perfect for him. They won't make the playoffs, but I can surely see Iverson getting them to 35 wins.

There's no reason to hate on Iverson. Do you think the situation would be any different for a Kobe Bryant, a Gilbert Arenas or a Dirk Nowitzki?

If they were traded and suddenly not the focus of the offense anymore? Any superstar would have complained. And for a guy who averaged 26.4 points per game on a 50 win team to accept being a sixth man on a 40 win team like the Pistons or one of the worst teams in the NBA (the Grizzlies) is absurd.

Iverson led the Sixers single handedly to the Finals in 2001. He's consistantly pumped up good team after good team for them his entire career until the end. He was never a cancer, he's just been misunderstood.

If he doesn't get a star role, he really should retire. He's getting disrespected like crazy.

Iverson has never shown respect, there is no reason to give him any respect. He has always been a selfish player that mocked the idea of practicing with his teammates. Spare me the lecture about him being disrespected.

bagwell368
11-18-2009, 07:32 PM
Iverson has never shown respect, there is no reason to give him any respect. He has always been a selfish player that mocked the idea of practicing with his teammates. Spare me the lecture about him being disrespected.

^^ yes sir

he's steaming pile of shart as a team player

king9er
11-18-2009, 08:00 PM
bring AI back to Washington

mzgrizz
11-19-2009, 01:01 AM
look what grizzlies did
signed and benched a guy who had problem to come off bench

don't say that thats iverson fault

Uh, you should get your facts straight first. The Grizzlies were working him into the lineup AFTER being out for nearly a month with a hamstring injury; he got impatient and started *****ing about wanting to start after only ONE game; got replaced on the all time scoring list by Kobe while playing in LA: then left the team with multiple problems....the biggest being a bruised ego. That would be Iverson's fault in my book.

cyph34
11-19-2009, 01:52 AM
goddamn bagwell368, who's the broad in the picture?