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View Full Version : Evaluate Artest, Rasheed, VC, BG and Hedo's Performances so far.



fairandbalanced
11-16-2009, 05:32 PM
We've seen enough games to predict how they will affect the team, what are the pro's and cons of each player?


My take:

Hedo: Has helped Toronto's offense rotate better, they also seem to have a better chemistry on defense. He is not driving and passing as much as he did in Orlando but I think the team is better with him and would make the play-offs.

Rasheed: Still unpredictable, seemed bored atimes when your team is not that good and always ready to play a good team. The Celtics style more low post when he's out and seem a lot more jump shots when he's in. They are still solid like the 08 championship team.

VC: You can't evaluate the magic till Lewis gets back but so far he's been a bad addition. Howard doesn't get the ball as much and the Magic do not move the ball around as much as they did with Hedo and Lewis...the team can catch a break if Lewis could help with Carter's short-comings.

Artest: We also can't evaluate the Lakers as a team till Gasol gets back...kinda Ironic that I think without Kobe but with Gasol, the Lakers would probably have the same record at this point. Getting back on topic, Artest has been worse than Ariza to the Lakers...he is a better individual player but Kobe and him do not have the same chemistry Kobe and Ariza had. Kobe knows where Ariza is all the time, both at the offensive and at the defensive end. Whenever I watch the Lakers game, it seems that Kobe and Artest are sometimes confused on whom to cover at the defensive end.....I am open to criticism on that point. Ariza knows his role defensively but Artest wants Kobe's role defensively...Kobe knows where Ariza will be on offense but he sometimes lose Artest and thus he end up shooting the ball just like he did when he had Devin George. Players need to understand each other to build a chemistry...


Ariza: Who could have thought Houston will beat the Lakers at home. He has been Solid along with Battier on the defensive end. They're doing what I thought Kobe and Artest would do on defense. Ariza has been a great addition for Houston although he still is not an offensive treat.

Gordon: Still a Bull its heart....takes some days off and rack up points on others. I thought he will change and be more consistent but maybe he's too early to judge his inconsistencies. He been a good subtraction for the Bulls.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-16-2009, 05:50 PM
Give us their stats.

And screw Hedo. We paid him 55 mil for his clutchness and he didn't do **** yesterday.

fairandbalanced
11-16-2009, 05:56 PM
Give us their stats.

And screw Hedo. We paid him 55 mil for his clutchness and he didn't do **** yesterday.

I evaluated impact...not stats. You can do so if you choose.

ManRam
11-16-2009, 06:01 PM
Hedo: 14.5 points, 4.7 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 46.5%, 40% from three
Sheed: 9.7 points, 3.6 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 40.8%, 31.3% from three
Vince: 17.3 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2 assists, 43.7%, 42.1 from three
Artest: 12.2 points, 4.8 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 42.7%, 37.8% from three
Ariza: 18.4 points, 5.1 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 40.0%, 35.8% from three
Gordon: 22.4 points, 2.4 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 44.8%, 36.7% from three

Hedo: assists are down, shots are down. He's shooting a better percentage than he did in Orlando. He hasn't taken over games. There are some ball-handling issues between him and Calderon...especially late in games. Time will tell.

Sheed: not shooting efficiently, but rarely does. He's been solid off the bench, especially defensively. He's hit some big threes. I think he's provided what they wanted.

Vince: Too early to tell. Magic aren't healthy. However, he isn't really looking to create for others, and is taking too many threes. He's gotta have a bigger role in the offense, more than just another expensive three point shooter. He's gotta start acting like a play maker, otherwise losing Hedo will hurt.

Artest: His defense is going to help (not that Ariza was a scrub, he won some games single handedly in the playoffs). His shot selection as usual blows...but he isn't really hurting them on offense. He's fit in well...not sure if taking him over Ariza was the right move still. Some chemistry issues...but when Pau returns we'll know for sure. I'll judge this at the end of the season. Championship or bust.

Ariza: Been great...for the most part. He's obviously taking more shots than ever, as expected since they have very few offensive scoring options. His FG% is bad...but that will improve over time as he gets more comfortable. Has been a stud defensively. I think it was a good signing for the Rockets...they just wont win tons of games with him as the first or second option.

Gordon: Injuries make it unfair to judge him so far. I'm not a Gordon fan so I'll quit right now.

randomness
11-16-2009, 06:06 PM
Give us their stats.

And screw Hedo. We paid him 55 mil for his clutchness and he didn't do **** yesterday.

well he was playing while he was hurt so you can't blame him.. but yes, I regret the Raptors signed Hedo for 55m. We should have just tried to re-sign Marion..

prodigy
11-16-2009, 06:11 PM
Hedo- Playing an all around game and shooting well. He helps the raps alot.

Sheed- His temper and ego will end up costing the Celtics points in the playoffs. Also shoots way to many three's. Magic and cavs have faster bigs that will be able to cover him out there.

VC- Shooting the ball way to much and only has 2 assits agame. Hurting the magic more then helping. Just like I said he would. He takes the ball out of Howard's, nelson and lewis hands. Ball hog. Whats up with all the 3's? Can't he drive anymore?

Artest- Not impressed at all. Takes bad shots, misses open layups, Low %. I think they just want his defense in the playoffs.

Ariz- Doing some real good things there. congrats to him.

Gordon- Looks real good. Scoring like crazy.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-16-2009, 06:26 PM
well he was playing while he was hurt so you can't blame him.. but yes, I regret the Raptors signed Hedo for 55m. We should have just tried to re-sign Marion..

Lol I was just joking about that part.

And who cares if it was for 55 mil? We weren't gonna do anything else anyways.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-16-2009, 06:27 PM
I'm surprised Hedo has the best FG% out of all of them.

mjt20mik
11-16-2009, 06:29 PM
Give us their stats.

And screw Hedo. We paid him 55 mil for his clutchness and he didn't do **** yesterday.

One game. He tried, and you know what he didn't make it.

edison_yia
11-16-2009, 06:31 PM
ariza is the only bright spot

d-baller23
11-16-2009, 06:32 PM
Hedo- Playing an all around game and shooting well. He helps the raps alot.

Sheed- His temper and ego will end up costing the Celtics points in the playoffs. Also shoots way to many three's. Magic and cavs have faster bigs that will be able to cover him out there.

VC- Shooting the ball way to much and only has 2 assits agame. Hurting the magic more then helping. Just like I said he would. He takes the ball out of Howard's, nelson and lewis hands. Ball hog. Whats up with all the 3's? Can't he drive anymore?
Artest- Not impressed at all. Takes bad shots, misses open layups, Low %. I think they just want his defense in the playoffs.

Ariz- Doing some real good things there. congrats to him.

Gordon- Looks real good. Scoring like crazy.

Uhh SVG told him to do that, he is not there to fit in. He is there to score for the Magic. We got Jameer and J-Will for passing, and Dwight is still gettin his points.

Gators123
11-16-2009, 06:37 PM
We've seen enough games to predict how they will affect the team, what are the pro's and cons of each player?


Gordon: Still a Bull its heart....takes some days off and rack up points on others. I thought he will change and be more consistent but maybe he's too early to judge his inconsistencies. He been a good subtraction for the Bulls.

For the Name "Fairandbalanced" your are exactly the opposite. How is he inconsistent? and take days off? He has played in 10 games and had only 1 bad game. Before Last nights game, BG was averaging 24ppg and shooting about 50%. So far he has been far from inconsistent.

ManRam
11-16-2009, 06:38 PM
Uhh SVG told him to do that, he is not there to fit in. He is there to score for the Magic. We got Jameer and J-Will for passing, and Dwight is still gettin his points.

He is here to score...I'll give you that. We didn't have a go-to scorer really last year (Hedo kind of was). I don't think he is here to jack up 7 threes a game...not at all. We have plenty of guys who can do that. We don't have enough guys who can attack and create for other guys. He's on pace for a career high in threes per game and career low in assists. I'd like to see each of those level out some. Can't have enough play-makers. Right now, we don't. Vince needs to be that. Shooting almost half your shots from three is not why we brought him here. Hedo could have done that.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-16-2009, 06:42 PM
One game. He tried, and you know what he didn't make it.

I'm surprised people don't realize I was joking.

mjt20mik
11-16-2009, 06:44 PM
I'm surprised people don't realize I was joking.

Oh. My bad. Dude you know how Raptor fans are with like rationality. I'm just use to people like bashing our team after one game. lol

Raps18-19 Champ
11-16-2009, 06:46 PM
I'm all for Hedo.

I wished he could have made that shot though because being clutch is 1 of the main reasons we overpaid him though.

YayArea
11-16-2009, 07:16 PM
For the Name "Fairandbalanced" your are exactly the opposite. How is he inconsistent? and take days off? He has played in 10 games and had only 1 bad game. Before Last nights game, BG was averaging 24ppg and shooting about 50%. So far he has been far from inconsistent.


Yeah I dont know what he was thinking. Ben has been playing Great this year! His all around game is more than what I expected to see so far!

mjt20mik
11-16-2009, 07:16 PM
I'm all for Hedo.

I wished he could have made that shot though because being clutch is 1 of the main reasons we overpaid him though.

He's gonna make more than he misses. He still put together a good game for being not 100%.

Verbal Christ
11-16-2009, 07:18 PM
Ariza: Who could have thought Houston will beat the Lakers at home. He has been Solid along with Battier on the defensive end. They're doing what I thought Kobe and Artest would do on defense. Ariza has been a great addition for Houston although he still is not an offensive treat.


Trevor Ariza Stats for 2009 thus far look like

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/trevor_ariza/

PPG 18.4 RPG 5.10 APG 4.2 EFF + 16.70

i'll take that for not being an 'offensive threat' :rolleyes:

ManRam
11-16-2009, 07:24 PM
Trevor Ariza Stats for 2009 thus far look like

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/trevor_ariza/

PPG 18.4 RPG 5.10 APG 4.2 EFF + 16.70

i'll take that for not being an 'offensive threat' :rolleyes:

He's shooting 40%. He's never going to be a great shooter. Only 3 of the top 50 scorers this year are shooting a lower percentage than that. He is scoring, but not at terrible efficient rates. He's a good 3rd option...not sure he has it in him to be a first or second option.

He's had an impressive year nonetheless.

dtmagnet
11-16-2009, 07:37 PM
I picked Ariza for fantasy and I'm glad I did.

Ovratd1up
11-16-2009, 07:39 PM
Gordon: Still a Bull its heart....takes some days off and rack up points on others. I thought he will change and be more consistent but maybe he's too early to judge his inconsistencies. He been a good subtraction for the Bulls.


This is another player being judged for his reputation. Gordon doesn't even deserve the reputation of being inconsistent, because he only was truly inconsistent his rookie year, when he was putting up 16 ppg inconsistently.

Gordon has been playing great this year, not only stuffing the points VERY consistently and efficiently, but not holding his team back defensively. Every night he put up numbers in the mid 20's for one of the best defensive teams in the league. But because he sucked in the most recent game, you saw it on ESPN and assumed this is how he has played the entire season :facepalm:

By the way, have you seen the Bulls' Field Goal and 3 point percentages lately?

fairandbalanced
11-16-2009, 07:43 PM
This is another player being judged for his reputation. Gordon doesn't even deserve the reputation of being inconsistent, because he only was truly inconsistent his rookie year, when he was putting up 16 ppg inconsistently.

Gordon has been playing great this year, not only stuffing the points VERY consistently and efficiently, but not holding his team back defensively. Every night he put up numbers in the mid 20's for one of the best defensive teams in the league. But because he sucked in the most recent game, you saw it on ESPN and assumed this is how he has played the entire season :facepalm:

By the way, have you seen the Bulls' Field Goal and 3 point percentages lately?

I have seen them play defense and they're better than with Gordon. I never said Gordon was bad for Detroit guys, I only gave kudos to the Bulls.

Chronz
11-16-2009, 07:47 PM
My Grades are scaled by what I expected from them. Like Amir Johnson has been an A+ of an addition because hes surpassing his expectations even if he hasnt had as much of an impact.

Hedo- A-
Performing exactly how I expected aside from him not slashing as much and being more of a liability defensively, but hes adapted to playing alongside a pure point by shooting better than ever from the field, hes become more efficient like a true winner should and the teams offense has been fun to watch, even when they came back from 20 down to beat us I wasnt surprised it happened. They can really light you up.

As always the question is, is this sustainable? So early in the year we have too many anomalies yet to sort themselves out. If the Raps finish the year with both the best offense and worst defense ending up with a .500 record is that really suppose to convince Bosh to stay? Thats the other part of evaluating Hedo. Bosh now is playing so much better than Bosh last year (Though he started the season on fire last year as well). How will their offense respond if and when Bosh comes back down to reality, if he doesnt slip and has a career year yet this is as far as his team gets then thats not going to bode well for him staying.

The teams defense has got to improve, its the only way they will stay in contention for the playoffs if Bosh does indeed slip. Which I wouldnt blame him for doing, hes playing out of his mind right now.


Sheed- B ish
So long as hes keeping KG's minutes down hes doing his job. Personally though hes been chucking way too much.

VC- Incomplete
Hes suppose to be playing alongside Shard, and getting substantial run as the teams playmaker but so far hes filled Shards old role. Offensively they are still as efficient as they were last year and thats come without their most efficient shooter so its an impressive feat. Still I was expecting Vince to take a smaller role in the offense, the fact that hes maintained his efficiency despite the increased burden is worthy of an A+ but hes been hurt and inconsistent so Im not willing to grade him yet.

Its Orlando's defense thats been the difference from one year to the next but if Shard comes back, Dwight continues his progression and Vince looks to score less and increases his efficiency then the Magic could end up improving despite the fact that their defense has slipped so considerably.


Artest- C+
Ill admit I expected him to struggle but not to this degree, the Lakers offense has suffered significantly with the switch, his shot has been shaky and hes become really turnover prone. He will turn it around, Im sure of it, no way is he this bad offensively, but as of now Ill give him a C+. If only because his defense has been better than I expected.

Ariza- B
The main reason he rates higher than Artest is because I feel the transition from a role player to a go to guy is harder than vice versa but in terms of making that transition Ariza has been pretty disappointing. Dont get me wrong, I love how hes played, I was just hoping for alittle more improvement. Hes basically been the same player he was last year only in a larger role, his overall impact on the game isnt much different but hes definitely kept the Rockets D from slipping, so for that alone hes an upgrade. The fact that hes been more efficient than Artest despite not playing alongside the great Kobe makes him the superior player. Again as expected

Gordon- A+
He was brought for one thing and one thing alone, to score the ball. Hes responded with a career year in that aspect. For a guy to improve and actually try his best to make that contract worth while is something I cant overlook.


PS
If I were grading players by what their salary dictated they should be offering their teams then the entire thing changes. But Im not gonna punish these guys for taking money, I knew Hedo wouldnt be worth the investment and I knew Ariza would be so much more valuable to a team despite not receiving the same kind of money. Name recognition matters in salary talks, moreso than actual worth.

Gators123
11-16-2009, 07:48 PM
I have seen them play defense and they're better than with Gordon. I never said Gordon was bad for Detroit guys, I only gave kudos to the Bulls.

But you made this thread about how the those players are performing so far. And you didn't mention that about Gordon.

Chronz
11-16-2009, 07:59 PM
He's shooting 40%. He's never going to be a great shooter. Only 3 of the top 50 scorers this year are shooting a lower percentage than that. He is scoring, but not at terrible efficient rates. He's a good 3rd option...not sure he has it in him to be a first or second option.

He's had an impressive year nonetheless.

I wouldnt say never, hes only 24 and has handled the transition pretty well for a guy nobody thought had the talent to play without being "spoonfed" by Kobe (Not Pau). All of it was a crock but by most peoples expectations Ariza has really done well. By the expectations of true fans of the game, hes performed the way youd expect, only the homer in me was hoping for more.

I still have that hope because hes grown in different aspects, but my hope really resides with his jumpshot. He became a 3pt shooter in 1 year, added an off the dribble 3pt pull up this year and its helped his driving game but his handles are still mediocre. Put it this way, his set shot is money, if he could learn how to create that shot with proper handles then he could easily become a good shooter. His midrange game still needs work though.

mikantsass
11-16-2009, 08:03 PM
Vince- Was hurt and missed some time. Seems like he is having a decent impact and we should know more when Lewis returns. Its too early to see his impact.

Turk- He plays in Canada and I havent seen 1 Raps game this year. All I know is that Bosh is killin it.

Artest- Struggling. Lake show should have kept Ariza. Is Ron Ron too dumb to work in the triangle?

Gordon- Has been solid for Detroit. He's doing his job of scoring the ball. Problem is that RIP has been injured all year. What will happen when RIP returns? Ben's impact has certainly been felt however.

Sheed- the only one of these guys that comes off the bench so his impact is slightly different. He sure gives the C's a heck of a 6th man and a good spell to KG/Perk.

Ariza- Having a good year so far. He's having a big impact on his team. The emergence of Brooks contributes to that too

MAC10TIZZY
11-16-2009, 08:07 PM
We've seen enough games to predict how they will affect the team, what are the pro's and cons of each player?


My take:

Hedo: Has helped Toronto's offense rotate better, they also seem to have a better chemistry on defense. He is not driving and passing as much as he did in Orlando but I think the team is better with him and would make the play-offs.

Rasheed: Still unpredictable, seemed bored atimes when your team is not that good and always ready to play a good team. The Celtics style more low post when he's out and seem a lot more jump shots when he's in. They are still solid like the 08 championship team.

VC: You can't evaluate the magic till Lewis gets back but so far he's been a bad addition. Howard doesn't get the ball as much and the Magic do not move the ball around as much as they did with Hedo and Lewis...the team can catch a break if Lewis could help with Carter's short-comings.

Artest: We also can't evaluate the Lakers as a team till Gasol gets back...kinda Ironic that I think without Kobe but with Gasol, the Lakers would probably have the same record at this point. Getting back on topic, Artest has been worse than Ariza to the Lakers...he is a better individual player but Kobe and him do not have the same chemistry Kobe and Ariza had. Kobe knows where Ariza is all the time, both at the offensive and at the defensive end. Whenever I watch the Lakers game, it seems that Kobe and Artest are sometimes confused on whom to cover at the defensive end.....I am open to criticism on that point. Ariza knows his role defensively but Artest wants Kobe's role defensively...Kobe knows where Ariza will be on offense but he sometimes lose Artest and thus he end up shooting the ball just like he did when he had Devin George. Players need to understand each other to build a chemistry...


Ariza: Who could have thought Houston will beat the Lakers at home. He has been Solid along with Battier on the defensive end. They're doing what I thought Kobe and Artest would do on defense. Ariza has been a great addition for Houston although he still is not an offensive treat.

Gordon: Still a Bull its heart....takes some days off and rack up points on others. I thought he will change and be more consistent but maybe he's too early to judge his inconsistencies. He been a good subtraction for the Bulls.


did you neglect to add shaq's name to this list on purpose? and all the teams mentioned above have winning records except for pistons and toronto , so i would say they all have been good....i lmao at artest throwing arizas shoe last nite....lol...lol

Bulls_fan90
11-16-2009, 08:07 PM
Yeah I dont know what he was thinking. Ben has been playing Great this year! His all around game is more than what I expected to see so far!

All round game? The guy is all offense. But that's fine, it's what the Pistons expected from him when they signed him. I think he has played well thus far. But you should expect some more games like last nights. Simply because he is a pure shooter and he will obviously have cold nights.

Mavrix
11-16-2009, 08:44 PM
Where is Marion.

fairandbalanced
11-16-2009, 08:59 PM
did you neglect to add shaq's name to this list on purpose? and all the teams mentioned above have winning records except for pistons and toronto , so i would say they all have been good....i lmao at artest throwing arizas shoe last nite....lol...lol

Shaq is so old, you actually need about 60 games to evaluate him.


Where is Marion.

He hasn't made a difference.;)

RaptorizedKevin
11-16-2009, 09:07 PM
well he was playing while he was hurt so you can't blame him.. But yes, i regret the raptors signed hedo for 55m. We should have just tried to re-sign marion..

lool i remember making a million threads on why we should have marion and yu guys all insulted me.. While heres ur karma. We got screwed over signing this guy.. Overpayed fela whos gonna get older and older. Next year his stats will be 12 pts. Lool

FlakeyFool
11-16-2009, 09:41 PM
lool i remember making a million threads on why we should have marion and yu guys all insulted me.. While heres ur karma. We got screwed over signing this guy.. Overpayed fela whos gonna get older and older. Next year his stats will be 12 pts. Lool

you did make a million usless threads, I miss those.

Marion didn't want to stay.

lorenz00
11-16-2009, 10:37 PM
whats with all this hedo bashing? come on now it was just one game that he miss that for the win shot.. come on now before we got out on that point he made a 3 and a step back 2 pointer those a clutch shots already. he miss so be it

Mavrix
11-16-2009, 10:42 PM
He hasn't made a difference.;)

LOL which is why Dallas has improved vastly on the defensive end?

YayArea
11-16-2009, 11:20 PM
All round game? The guy is all offense. But that's fine, it's what the Pistons expected from him when they signed him. I think he has played well thus far. But you should expect some more games like last nights. Simply because he is a pure shooter and he will obviously have cold nights.

You haven't been watching to many pistons games then. Not only is he playing good defense his To ratio is down. The game against the bobcats he had 22 pt 8 asst and ZERO TO's. And he is playing A lot of mins right now .. So with that being said... not only is he scoring but he is doing good in areas people talked about him not doing good in :)

Gators123
11-16-2009, 11:29 PM
You haven't been watching to many pistons games then. Not only is he playing good defense his To ratio is down. The game against the bobcats he had 22 pt 8 asst and ZERO TO's. And he is playing A lot of mins right now .. So with that being said... not only is he scoring but he is doing good in areas people talked about him not doing good in :)

Yup, I believe people were throwing around the words "defensive liability". He hasn't been one yet. :cool:

Is he a great Defender? No
Is he better then he gets credit for? Yes

RaptorizedKevin
11-16-2009, 11:44 PM
you did make a million usless threads, I miss those.

Marion didn't want to stay.

Actually there was no actual proof or verbal talk bout marion saying he didnt want to stay. PLus my threads were not useless, i comapred each of marion and hedos game and posted my opinion bout who adresses more needs and a better fit on the team. so they are not useless threads, please stop insulting me.Moderators i hope yu look into this, flakey is creating disruptive behaviour.

FlakeyFool
11-16-2009, 11:59 PM
Actually there was no actual proof or verbal talk bout marion saying he didnt want to stay. PLus my threads were not useless, i comapred each of marion and hedos game and posted my opinion bout who adresses more needs and a better fit on the team. so they are not useless threads, please stop insulting me.Moderators i hope yu look into this, flakey is creating disruptive behaviour.

I wasn't trying to insult you, sorry if you took it that way...

Anyways I disagree with you, I think hedo has been solid with the raps so far and will look even better when his teammates (calderon especially) know how to play along side him.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-17-2009, 12:03 AM
Actually there was no actual proof or verbal talk bout marion saying he didnt want to stay. PLus my threads were not useless, i comapred each of marion and hedos game and posted my opinion bout who adresses more needs and a better fit on the team. so they are not useless threads, please stop insulting me.Moderators i hope yu look into this, flakey is creating disruptive behaviour.

How long will Marion last though?

He lives on athleticism(fast breaks, defense, leaping ability, etc and absolutely no finesse game(shots are horrible and he isn't going to improve).

Chronz
11-17-2009, 12:38 AM
The Raps shouldnt have signed either Marion or Hedo I think, unless Marion got a 3 year deal, in which case I think its a decent investment. I thought Hedo got a 5 year deal, at the end of which will certainly cripple his teams cap, if you buy the theory that Hedo's game will diminish significantly into his late 30's. Which may not be all that likely given how effortless his game looks. I suppose if you sapped him of any quickness he had he would become more a standstill shooter but I doubt it.

Raph12
11-17-2009, 12:55 AM
Carter's fade-away 3pt dagger tonight was just dirty, this acquisition just may prove to pay some dividends for the Magic, we will just have to wait and see....

_KB24_
11-17-2009, 01:06 AM
Man, do I miss Ariza...........I felt so happy when he received his ring last night. I hope that Artest will become that ultimate defensive stopper that can play along side Kobe and stay focused.

Right now:

Ariza: A-
Artest: C+

Don't care for the rest.