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View Full Version : Teams that need to blow up their roster



Chronz
11-13-2009, 05:06 PM
Blowing your team up differs from rebuilding in that you actually need to rid yourself of youthful-core pieces that you wouldve otherwise have kept if not for this dire need of cap relief.

In most rebuilding processes you have the team with an aging star whos team is not doing so well, ridding themselves of those stars becomes the centerpiece of the deal and where the CAP relief usually comes from. (Think Vince Carter to Orlando)
But scenarios where its the same team struggling, only instead of a star they have all that money tied to mediocre talent, and thats when you have a team that needs blowing up. Your cap situation is so bad, that you need to rid yourself of your future in order to have a future. Trading your prime players in their prime if need be.

Thats the best way I can explain it, now I dont know how much money these owners have so Im not trying to judge them, but if I were basing this list off the premise that no team can afford such minimal returns on their finances for such a long duration, then these are the teams that meet my criteria. Teams devoting inordinate sums of money for minimal productivity yet possess players making nil with the kind of upside and talent to make OTHER teams think twice about passing up the commitment.




Philly 4-4 Over CAP for next 2 YRS
Brand+Dalembert - Next 2Years 54.2Million -15.8PPG, 11.9Reb, 1.5Ast (12.4PER/-2.3PER Differential)

From a Per Possession standpoint, they are basically paying 2 guys more money than what the Celtics pay for superior production from 1 player (KG). Granted thats 1 gifted player but if thats not a scream for help I dont know what is.

The overall commitment is longer than 2 years, this is just what Philly is paying in the foreseeable future. They wont be able to rid themselves of both, and they would prefer to toss Brand away but wont be able to unless they trade Iggy and thats where things get interesting. The Sixers basically have 2 options of self destruction:

Trade Iggy+Brand (134Million) and rebuild around Young and Speights with +12M available in 2010 and BUTTLOADS in 2011.

or Trade Speights and Dalembert(+Green)(31.M) and try to keep the team in contention with Brand saddle bagging the franchise for the next decade. If you opt for this route you basically have no cap space till 2011 but your not pushing luxury. In other words, they couldve kept Andre Miller if they were in this position a year ago.

One things for sure Philly cant just stick at it, they will be stuck at this level of play for years to come as by the time the big contracts expire the extensions of their core players will be kicking in.



New Orleans Over Luxury Tax next 2 YRS
Peja 14.5M(2YRS)
Morris 6.4M (2YRS)
Posey 6.4M(3YRS)


This team has devoted 26M on this year alone to 3 bench players. Emeka is highly overpaid as well but they just acquired him. West is actually underpaid and provides a decent return on his modest 9Million (and scaling down) salary. But hes not enough of an asset to help New Orleans get out of this mess, leaving only 1 solution. The Hornets have to trade yet another future HOFer for the sake of their franchise.

CP3 has to go, its really that simple. He wont want to stay in a floundering franchise and you cant improve the team with these contracts.

Seeing as how CP3 is such a franchise altering player, they have the luxury of throwing out alot of garbage with him. Problem is where do you start?


Do you think any of these teams should trade their franchise players away? Any teams Im not considering?

olrales
11-13-2009, 05:12 PM
Chronz, not in answer of your thread but, in your list of flawed NBA cliches, you should had: Ball don't lie! For the freethrows, it's a must!!! ;)

asandhu23
11-13-2009, 05:14 PM
Warriors

Kyben36
11-13-2009, 05:34 PM
I think the bulls have to do some, They need players that fit next to rose, and while I like Deng as much as anyone on this forum, we need an athletic swingman who can shoot the 3 to run with rose and be a good shooter for Rose to hit on the outside. Hinrich needs to go. very soon. While he still has some value, we need a PF that can do more than jump and Dunk. IF we can do that we are a contender IMO. Noah is the only player that fits in our system right now.

Then again, Deng is an excelent Defender, so maybe his inability to fit next to rose offensivly, Defensivly maybe he fits so well we cant trade him.

SteveNash
11-13-2009, 05:40 PM
I don't think either of those teams really have the luxury of just being able to start over at this point, especially with almost every other team trying to cut cost, no Knicks to dump your contracts onto these days. So it looks like Phi/No is stuck in mediocrity unless they're lucky enough to win the draft lottery.

If this year doesn't work out for them, San Antonio should probably blow it up next year.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-13-2009, 05:48 PM
New York Bricks

The_Mac22
11-13-2009, 05:52 PM
Warriors...

Giaps
11-13-2009, 09:34 PM
New York Bricks
Yeah, and they are. 6-8 guys will not be on the team anymore next season no matter who they get in free agency.

GoatMilk
11-13-2009, 09:38 PM
yeah it's the Warriors

Kakaroach
11-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Warriors for sure. Hornets to some extent.

soonabooma
11-14-2009, 03:22 AM
The Hornets are in bad shape right now. I can tell you from experience that Shinn has no business owning a team, and Jeff Bower is no genius. All that guy did was take the money that WE here in OKC put in Shinns pocket and he went out and bought Tyson Chandler and Peja. The team got really good shortly after but then that idiot let Chandler go. You can't trade away one of your key pieces like that. He was too important. It's not easy to replace a guy like TC. They're not gonna get that kind of rebounding/shot blocking, and defensive energy from Okafor, and everybody knows it. They traded away one of their big guns, and people wondered why they don't look the same now. Byron Scotts coaching skills haven't changed, and neither has CP3 and David Wests ability to do their job. This team is suffering becuz of bonehead decisions on the part of the management. Now they're missing both TC and Byron Scott. Now they're back to square one with Paul and West, but now they don't even have THEIR coach. They might as well be Hornets team that arrived here in Oklahoma City back in '05'. It's really sad that its come to this. But I say if you're gonna go out, you might as well go out with a bang. Chris Paul needs to just get the heck out of that dump and come home to OKC. He was born into the NBA in this city, and this is where he belongs. CP, you just let us know when you're ready, and we'll send a jet for you.

Chronz
11-14-2009, 03:24 AM
Chronz, not in answer of your thread but, in your list of flawed NBA cliches, you should had: Ball don't lie! For the freethrows, it's a must!!! ;)

Sorry bro, I happen to believe in that one

abe_froman
11-14-2009, 03:26 AM
Yeah, and they are. 6-8 guys will not be on the team anymore next season no matter who they get in free agency.

and this a flaw with going "all in" for 2010.what if no one(relevant/worth spending money on),whats the back up plan?

PBG
11-14-2009, 07:26 AM
I think the bulls have to do some, They need players that fit next to rose, and while I like Deng as much as anyone on this forum, we need an athletic swingman who can shoot the 3 to run with rose and be a good shooter for Rose to hit on the outside. Hinrich needs to go. very soon. While he still has some value, we need a PF that can do more than jump and Dunk. IF we can do that we are a contender IMO. Noah is the only player that fits in our system right now.

Then again, Deng is an excelent Defender, so maybe his inability to fit next to rose offensivly, Defensivly maybe he fits so well we cant trade him.

:eyebrow: didnt chicago just let the player you said they need, walk out? i thought bulls fans were all hyped up about this season with a backcourt of rose and salmons, thinking salmons could fill gordons spot.

sintaks12
11-14-2009, 07:36 AM
Yeah, and they are. 6-8 guys will not be on the team anymore next season no matter who they get in free agency.

God willing :pray:

NANDOKNICK
11-14-2009, 11:01 AM
and you are saying that they will not get better.
If thats true,,,then its true of the entire NBA so
that we should have no young players.
76s are much better run then the Knicks..
They have a very good point in his 1st year as starting PG..
They just drafted an excellent point guard from UCLA
Speights, Young and Iguodola,,,will be much better.
They have a well balanced team and they make good draft
picks. Knicks have bad managment and are a disaster.


Blowing your team up differs from rebuilding in that you actually need to rid yourself of youthful-core pieces that you wouldve otherwise have kept if not for this dire need of cap relief.

In most rebuilding processes you have the team with an aging star whos team is not doing so well, ridding themselves of those stars becomes the centerpiece of the deal and where the CAP relief usually comes from. (Think Vince Carter to Orlando)
But scenarios where its the same team struggling, only instead of a star they have all that money tied to mediocre talent, and thats when you have a team that needs blowing up. Your cap situation is so bad, that you need to rid yourself of your future in order to have a future. Trading your prime players in their prime if need be.

Thats the best way I can explain it, now I dont know how much money these owners have so Im not trying to judge them, but if I were basing this list off the premise that no team can afford such minimal returns on their finances for such a long duration, then these are the teams that meet my criteria. Teams devoting inordinate sums of money for minimal productivity yet possess players making nil with the kind of upside and talent to make OTHER teams think twice about passing up the commitment.




Philly 4-4 Over CAP for next 2 YRS
Brand+Dalembert - Next 2Years 54.2Million -15.8PPG, 11.9Reb, 1.5Ast (12.4PER/-2.3PER Differential)

From a Per Possession standpoint, they are basically paying 2 guys more money than what the Celtics pay for superior production from 1 player (KG). Granted thats 1 gifted player but if thats not a scream for help I dont know what is.

The overall commitment is longer than 2 years, this is just what Philly is paying in the foreseeable future. They wont be able to rid themselves of both, and they would prefer to toss Brand away but wont be able to unless they trade Iggy and thats where things get interesting. The Sixers basically have 2 options of self destruction:

Trade Iggy+Brand (134Million) and rebuild around Young and Speights with +12M available in 2010 and BUTTLOADS in 2011.

or Trade Speights and Dalembert(+Green)(31.M) and try to keep the team in contention with Brand saddle bagging the franchise for the next decade. If you opt for this route you basically have no cap space till 2011 but your not pushing luxury. In other words, they couldve kept Andre Miller if they were in this position a year ago.

One things for sure Philly cant just stick at it, they will be stuck at this level of play for years to come as by the time the big contracts expire the extensions of their core players will be kicking in.



New Orleans Over Luxury Tax next 2 YRS
Peja 14.5M(2YRS)
Morris 6.4M (2YRS)
Posey 6.4M(3YRS)


This team has devoted 26M on this year alone to 3 bench players. Emeka is highly overpaid as well but they just acquired him. West is actually underpaid and provides a decent return on his modest 9Million (and scaling down) salary. But hes not enough of an asset to help New Orleans get out of this mess, leaving only 1 solution. The Hornets have to trade yet another future HOFer for the sake of their franchise.

CP3 has to go, its really that simple. He wont want to stay in a floundering franchise and you cant improve the team with these contracts.

Seeing as how CP3 is such a franchise altering player, they have the luxury of throwing out alot of garbage with him. Problem is where do you start?


Do you think any of these teams should trade their franchise players away? Any teams Im not considering?

arkanian215
11-14-2009, 11:10 AM
there's plenty of good FA's in 2010 to be had outside of the typical Lebron, Boozer, Bosh, Wade, Amare. That's a couple of max contracts right there, or at least close to max. Four of them are realistic possibilities to leave their current team. Not sure about Amare. I think he likes PHX again.

On top of them guys who can get lots of money are: JJ, Gay, Manu.
Middle of the pack guys: Al Harrington, Shaq, Big Z, TMac, Jermaine O'Neal, Camby, Brad Miller, Tyrus Thomas, Scola, David Lee, and Nate Robinson.

So there might not be many superstars at the bottom of that list but those are decent guys to have on any team, granted they're healthy. If you have about 20+ mil and can land 3 of those guys from that last bit, you'll be in decent shape.

HouRealCoach
11-14-2009, 12:48 PM
NOH & Utah

mrblisterdundee
11-14-2009, 01:59 PM
1. New Orleans
2. Philadelphia
3. New York
4. ...

JPHX
11-14-2009, 04:13 PM
Lakers

29$JerZ
11-14-2009, 04:21 PM
New Orleans could use a serious youth development.

Sucks Peja,MO are 2 yr deals and not 1.


Knicks won't be seeing 6-9 guys on this roster next year so that's going to be a blessing.
No more Duhon,AL,Larry,Darko :D

what54!?
11-14-2009, 04:28 PM
the hornets.

FlakeyFool
11-14-2009, 04:31 PM
celtics

B.JenningsMVP
11-14-2009, 04:53 PM
Warriors

Chronz
11-14-2009, 11:55 PM
and you are saying that they will not get better.
If thats true,,,then its true of the entire NBA so
that we should have no young players.
76s are much better run then the Knicks..
They have a very good point in his 1st year as starting PG..
They just drafted an excellent point guard from UCLA
Speights, Young and Iguodola,,,will be much better.
They have a well balanced team and they make good draft
picks. Knicks have bad managment and are a disaster.
The knicks already went through their blow it up routine, its not yet finished but they are where they shouldve been 3 years ago, only they didnt realize it then because they wanted to keep salary high and try to compete. Thats not how teams should be built IMO. When your up against the cap and your pushing .500, you shouldnt be committed to players like Brand and Bert for long.

Tell me this, what happens if because of Brands contract the team doesnt get to keep all those improved players? In many ways, their youngsters improving too soon could end up hurting them by virtue of their market value skyrocketing beyond what they could afford.

The elite teams sustain that excellence by having the foresight and luck of being able to sign core players to reasonable contracts and not being saddled by dead weight contracts. Even if your team improves, if your not contending whats the point?

superkegger
11-15-2009, 01:19 AM
In my opinion, the wizards need to absolutely blow the **** out of that team. Have a Florida Marlins type of fire sale. Everyone has to go.