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View Full Version : NBA ReDraft Playoffs: 1 Miami Heat vs. 4 New York Knicks -- Part II



Catfish1314
11-10-2009, 11:48 PM
Once or a twice year, PSD holds an NBA ReDraft. In this game played by PSD users, all the players in the NBA go into a draft pool. A lottery is held to determine the order and in 12 rounds of drafting and trading the GMs try to create the best team possible.

This second round match-up features the top seeded Miami Heat versus the 4th seeded New York Knicks. The Heat have homecourt advantage. Their respective rosters and write-ups are listed below:

Keep in mind these are not the real life teams.

Heat:

PG: Gilbert Arenas/Rafer Alston
SG: Ronnie Brewer/Maurice Evans
SF: Richard Jefferson/James Jones/James Johnson
PF: Chris Bosh/Jason Maxiell/Eduardo Najera
C: Spencer Hawes/Francisco Elson

Knicks:

C - Marcus Camby / Brian Skinner / Steven Hunter
PF - David Lee / Craig Smith
SF - Boris Diaw / Ime Udoka
SG - Brandon Roy / Rasual Butler
PG - Mo Williams / Sergio Rodriguez / Shaun Livingston

Heat's write-up:


Bosh a wannabe #1? That must be why he is one of the top prizes of the 2010 free agency. Have you seen him play this season?

Ronnie Brewer is one of the best defenders in the league and would seriously affect Roy's output. BTW Roy posted 2 points the other night. Pathetic.

Your front-court is going to hurt from Camby's negative ability to score and David Lee would get swallowed if you played him at Center, like you said you will.

You also mentioned Diaw getting significant minutes at the 4 slot to guard Bosh leaving Rasual Butler!! to guard R-Jeff.

The fact of the matter is we have 3 guys who can put up 30 points on any given night (hey remember when Gilbert threw down 60? weird). And defenders in Brewer, Evans and Maxiell that can handle threats on the perimeter while only having to focus on Lee in the paint.

You're head to head match-ups are void because those were real-life teams with chemistry of their own. We feel our team has a great balance of superstars and defenders that can do everything well.

We have slashers, shooters, defenders, rebounders, good passers, and to top it all off we have a great 6th man in Rafer who can come off the bench and distribute. Your team just wouldn't be able to keep up with us. We're lacking a write-up, but we pair up well with you guys and would win this game in real-life. I just wish PSD voters would read this and make a logical decision. We got the #1 seed for a good reason.

P.s. WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE IN THE PLAY-OFFS.

It simple really, the knicks have 2 defenders in Diaw and Camby. Camby cannot leave the paint and will be relegated to guarding Spencer Hawes. Diaw, according to KoB, will be guarding Bosh for most of the game. That leaves R-Jeff and Gilbert (plus Brewer's slashing ability) to have free-range on the perimeter. We simply have too many scorers for you to handle.

We have Evans, Brewer and Maxiell. Evans can hit the 3 and play solid D on Mo Williams while our best defender (Brewer) is guarding their #1 option (Roy). You can say that Roy always wins the match-ups but he certainly won't explode for on us like he would if we had a weak defender on him. We have Maxiell (good defensive player) who will come in off the bench to bang with Lee and give him a hard time scoring. We have 3 freakishly talented scorers in which you cannot seem to cover at the same time while your only prolific scorer is guarded by our best defender.

And as much as you would like to kid yourself, MO WILLIAMS DOES NOT HAVE THE OFFENSIVE ABILITY TO BE MENTIONED IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS GILBERT. Mo gets his wide open looks in Cleveland because Lebron is drawing double-teams and penetrating the lane. You're not going to kid any voters by trying to say Mo is greater than Gilbert. You have no one to guard him and R-Jeff. Rasual is not a great defender though you try to classify him as such, No one on your perimeter can guard our 1-3. Diaw and Lee can only be in one place at a time. We would score too much for the Knicks to keep up. Even Hawes is a hustle guy with good passing skills. He'd run Camby up and down the court. We'd score 100+ in this match-up


Knicks write-up:


Read these writeups carefully and ignore the flashiness of his roster. Look for substance in these teams and you will clearly see the Knicks will win this series.

C - Marcus Camby vs. Spencer Hawes
There’s a reason Camby still goes 2 and a half rounds earlier than Hawes. Hawes game’s vs. Camby: 0-1, 1-5, 4-11, 3-6, 2-8, 4-18 for a combined 5.8 ppg on 14/49 from the field (28.5fg%) So don’t even try and tell me this is an edge for him. 2007 Hawes couldn’t score on him and 2008 Hawes couldn’t score on him. Hawes’s inconsistency this year proves he hasn’t taken a jump further either. Meanwhile, Camby’s averages vs. Hawes: 10.4ppg, 13.8rpb, 2.8bpg, 48% fg
This shows me that while Hawes gets worse, Camby is playing his SAME GAME.
Sidenote: Backups David Lee vs. Elson is a slam dunk for me.

Edge: Knicks

PF – David Lee/Boris Diaw vs. Chris Bosh
Boris Diaw will get significant minutes at the PF in this series with Lee playing some center. Bosh went 0-2 vs. Diaw last year. Game 1: Bosh goes for 18 on 5-12 from the field in 39 minutes. Diaw matches him with 14 on 7-12 from the field in only 27 minutes in a 26 point victory. Game 2: Bosh puts up 35 (!) on 8-17 from the field in 41 minutes. BUT Boris Diaw scores 30 on 15-21 from the field in 38 minutes and the Cats won by 13.
Final Stats: Bosh – 26.5 ppg/45% fg
Diaw – 22ppg/67% fg

It’s a situation you can’t ignore. His player will get his but SO WILL MINE. Bosh has never been considered a top defender. On the other hand, David Lee has improved every year in this league to the point that he’s averaging 20-10 this year on 60%fg. Bosh may put up 25 ppg but he’s gonna need a lot of shots while Lee and Diaw can score in a variety of ways on my end and Diaw has proven to be a handful for Bosh head to head.

Edge: Heat

SF – Boris Diaw/Rasual Butler vs. Richard Jefferson
Richard Jefferson is another player who, while a good player, shoots a low percentage and needs a lot of shots (19th in FGA last season) to get his points. Keep this in mind. Defensively he was better in NJ in 07 than in 08 where he regressed with the Bucks. With a weak backup like James Jones this matchup is even.

Edge: Even

SG – Brandon Roy vs. Ronnie BrewerEven though Brandon Roy got outplayed by Rip Hamilton I’ve managed to advance to the second round (I’m kidding Haris, relax). Read this section very carefully and do not get fooled into the Heat’s “We respect Roy but Brewer is a good defender who puts up 13-15ppg and will limit Roy’s effectiveness” because it just ain’t true. This is a landslide victory for me. Since 2007, they have played a total 9 games head to head. The Blazers are 6-3 in these games and Roy has outscored Brewer 8-1 in these games. The one game Brewer won? Roy was injured and only played 9 minutes. Meaning = A Healthy Brandon Roy STOMPS on Ronnie Brewer. Even Kobe loses a head to head every once in a while. 8-0 over a 3 year span is incredibly lopsided! Even including the injury game Roy has averaged 22.1 ppg shooting 55%FG (better than his regular season average) to Brewer’s 10.6ppg on 49%FG.

Huge Edge: Knicks
PG – Mo Williams vs. Gilbert Arenas
This is easy for me to write because I’ve never liked Gilbert Arenas. Back in 2006 I actually started a thread in the nba forum and listed the 5 guys I believed could never win an NBA Championship and Arenas was #1. He really fits with this Miami Heat team because he’s talented and he loves to shoot the ball at a low percentage.
This season, people are already saying Arenas is “back.” Yes he is. He’s back to having monsterous games 40% of the time while 60% of the time he has weak to awful games that usually lose the game.

Game 1: 10-21 (48%fg) for 29 points, 9 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 11 point win
Game 2: 9-22 (40%fg) for 23 points, 4 assists, 7 turnovers in an 11 point loss
Game 3: 9-13 (69%!) for 32 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 19 point win
Game 4: 7-18 (39%fg) for 22 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 12 point loss
Game 5: 9-27 (33%fg) for 32 points, 3 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 4 point loss

THIS IS GILBERT ARENAS!! I couldn’t have imagined a more accurate description of his style than those first 5 games. He’s putting up 27.6ppg and 5.6apg which looks amazing but how can his team consistently win when he misses 13, 11, 18 shots and has 4 turnovers per game. I completely believe in this series Arenas will help the Heat tremendously in 2-3 of their wins and KILL them in 3-4 of their loses.

For the Knicks, we have All-Star Mo Williams who was 14th in the NBA last season (#3 PG behind Steve Nash/Jose Calderon) in Effective Field Goal Percentage. His 3pt shot and 2pt jumper are remarkably consistent. Also, he fits perfectly with a guy like Roy because, like with LeBron, he can allow Roy to dominate the ball during crunchtime while he plays on the wing and knocks down open threes at a high clip.

Edge: Knicks

Bench:
PG – Sergio vs. Alston – Edge Heat
SG – Butler vs. Evans – Edge: Knicks
SF – Butler vs. Jones – Huge Edge: Knicks
PF – Diaw/Smith vs. Maxiell – Huge Edge: Knicks
C – Lee vs. Elson – Huge Edge: Knicks
Edge: Knicks easily


Closing:
1. I’m clearly going to outshoot him in this series. In their last healthy seasons his starters FG %’s were as follows: 41.8, 50.9, 43.9, 48.7, 46.6
Knicks: 46.7, 48, 49.5, 54.9, 51.2

In fact, I have 3 of the top 15 players in the NBA last season in effective field goal percentage: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...9_leaders.html
Diaw – 11th
Lee – 13th
Mo Williams – 14th

He has one good defender and I have 3. If anything, his percentages would drop and mine would go up.

2. My team is exactly that. A TEAM. The Knicks have a PG who can slash, distribute, and play off the ball, a superstar at SG who can do it, a versatile SF who can play PF and loves to pass, a PF/C who is an elite rebounder, can finish with either hand at the rim (so underrated there!), and has a solid jumpshot, and a shotblocking rebounding C to protect the paint. It’s a team. It’s a team built for balance and a team built to win.

The Heat have two wanna-be #1’s taking 20 shots per game, a #3 who takes as many shots as a #1, and two big men both want to play on the perimeter! On paper they look good, but when you need to take 250 shots collectively to win, its gonna be hard to find that many possessions.

3. My bench is clearly better. Elson and James Jones don’t even play.

4. I have the best player on the court in Brandon Roy.

Knicks win the series and advance to the ECF.

KnicksorBust
11-11-2009, 12:01 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009111014

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 12:05 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009111014
:laugh: 12 turnovers

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:11 AM
^^ And as I said before, ROY had 2 points the other night and he's your #1 option. We have another legit #1 option in Bosh as well as an excellent #3 option in R-Jeff who averaged just under 20ppg last year. Everyone has their bad nights here and there. Arenas and Roy are no exception. Arenas was without Jamison, Foye, and Miller (3 key rotation players) while Caron underwhelmed. On our team Gilbert wouldn't have to take on that big of a role to be the sole force of the team.

The fact is, if Roy has a bad night for your Knicks, you guys are screwed badly. Mo is proving in Cleveland that, as a #2 option, he can't win a Championship with LEBRON so stop trying to pass him off as some prolific Superstar PG. Mo wishes he had Gilbert's offensive ability. Arenas is top 10 in scoring for this season so far. It still doesn't negate the fact that your team doesn't have the star power to compete with us. One off-night from Gilbert won't lose us a 7 game play-off series, especially when WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE.

UPost2Much
11-11-2009, 12:14 AM
As I said in the other forum, before I saw this one:


And as I said before, ROY had 2 points the other night and he's your #1 option. We have another legit #1 option in Bosh as well as an excellent #3 option in R-Jeff who averaged just under 20ppg last year. Everyone has their bad nights here and there. Arenas and Roy are no exception. Arenas was without Jamison, Foye, and Miller (3 key rotation players) while Caron underwhelmed. On our team Gilbert wouldn't have to take on that big of a role to be the sole force of the team.

The fact is, if Roy has a bad night for your Knicks, you guys are screwed badly. Mo is proving in Cleveland that, as a #2 option, he can't win a Championship with LEBRON so stop trying to pass him off as some prolific Superstar PG. Mo wishes he had Gilbert's offensive ability. Arenas is top 10 in scoring for this season so far. It still doesn't negate the fact that your team doesn't have the star power to compete with us. One off-night from Gilbert won't lose us a 7 game play-off series, especially when WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE.

I think his point was that Arenas has shown on many occasions that he has the ability to CRIPPLE his team's chances of winning. His style of play is completely hit or miss. He's an exciting player to watch when he's on, but he's the definition of atrocious when he's off. And he's off FAR MORE OFTEN than any other top tier player... which sort of makes him not a top tier player...

I enjoy watching Arenas play, but I also enjoy the fact that he isn't on my team.

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:17 AM
KoB I just want to congratulate you on everything throughout this re-draft. I really do like you as a GM and a poster. No matter what happens on this round 2 (finale hopefully), no hard feelings man. I hope you or me wins the whole thing. Best of luck to you, seriously.

Catfish. I apologize. We were a bit harsh on you earlier. Thank you for posting some of what we posted in the previous thread into the write-up. It means a lot to us.

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 12:22 AM
^^ And as I said before, ROY had 2 points the other night and he's your #1 option. We have another legit #1 option in Bosh as well as an excellent #3 option in R-Jeff who averaged just under 20ppg last year. Everyone has their bad nights here and there. Arenas and Roy are no exception. Arenas was without Jamison, Foye, and Miller (3 key rotation players) while Caron underwhelmed. On our team Gilbert wouldn't have to take on that big of a role to be the sole force of the team.

The fact is, if Roy has a bad night for your Knicks, you guys are screwed badly. Mo is proving in Cleveland that, as a #2 option, he can't win a Championship with LEBRON so stop trying to pass him off as some prolific Superstar PG. Mo wishes he had Gilbert's offensive ability. Arenas is top 10 in scoring for this season so far. It still doesn't negate the fact that your team doesn't have the star power to compete with us. One off-night from Gilbert won't lose us a 7 game play-off series, especially when WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE.

But c'mon. Roy doesn't have an off night as often as arenas. 12 turnovers WILL lose you games in the NBA, and if Arenas turned the ball over 12 times on this team, then his team would lose because the knicks would capitalize. And what makes you think that gilbert wouldn't have these kinds of nights on your team? Even when Arenas had great sidekicks in Butler and Jamison, he still turned the ball over alot and had alot of bad games. Jamison and Butler are equal to, if not better than the combo of rj and bosh, so to think that arenas would not have bad game is just rediculous

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:25 AM
As I said in the other forum, before I saw this one:



I think his point was that Arenas has shown on many occasions that he has the ability to CRIPPLE his team's chances of winning. His style of play is completely hit or miss. He's an exciting player to watch when he's on, but he's the definition of atrocious when he's off. And he's off FAR MORE OFTEN than any other top tier player... which sort of makes him not a top tier player...

I enjoy watching Arenas play, but I also enjoy the fact that he isn't on my team.


Right, I see your argument. But, you have to envision how Gilbert would perform in a balanced team like ours. Gilbert actually has a TRUE starting caliber PG in Rafer backing him up. He also has a dominant force in Bosh who can take over any game at anytime. Combine that with R-Jeff's slashing and shooting ability and you have an Arenas that can sit back and shoot while the rest of our offensively sound team distributes the offensive load evenly amongst themselves. No more giant load for Gilbert.

The Knicks only perimeter defender is Diaw and KoB said he will be guarding Bosh most of the night. That leaves no one with solid Defense to guard Gilbert or Jefferson who are capable of putting 30+ points against suspect defenders.

The Wiz are terrible. D Wade went through some of the same pains as Gilbert is going through when the Heat were struck with injury and won 15 games all season b/c Wade was trying to do too much and had mediocre help. No one on the Wizards shot a good percentage tonight. No one.

jrodmesche
11-11-2009, 12:25 AM
the knicks redraft team has the worst bench i have ever seen!!
rasual butler and Craig smith are OK but the others arent even close

RocketsRule
11-11-2009, 12:27 AM
Sticking to my guns. Miami takes this one in 7.

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:27 AM
But c'mon. Roy doesn't have an off night as often as arenas. 12 turnovers WILL lose you games in the NBA, and if Arenas turned the ball over 12 times on this team, then his team would lose because the knicks would capitalize. And what makes you think that gilbert wouldn't have these kinds of nights on your team? Even when Arenas had great sidekicks in Butler and Jamison, he still turned the ball over alot and had alot of bad games. Jamison and Butler are equal to, if not better than the combo of rj and bosh, so to think that arenas would not have bad game is just rediculous

I'm sorry, I was going to respond to your post until I read the bold. I can no longer respect anything you say again.

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 12:28 AM
I'm sorry, I was going to respond to your post until I read the bold. I can no longer respect anything you say again.

explain

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:32 AM
the knicks redraft team has the worst bench i have ever seen!!
rasual butler and Craig smith are OK but the others arent even close

Thank you Jeez!! Did anyone notice that his back-up center is Brian Skinner and he has Udoka at SF? Rasual Butler averages 8 ppg career and is an average defender at best.

His bench is terrible yet he has the brass to post in his write-up that the Knick have the huge edge for the bench comparison. BTW he included Lee ad Diaw, 2 of his starters in the bench comparison. :facepalm:

KnicksorBust
11-11-2009, 12:36 AM
^^ And as I said before, ROY had 2 points the other night and he's your #1 option. We have another legit #1 option in Bosh as well as an excellent #3 option in R-Jeff who averaged just under 20ppg last year. Everyone has their bad nights here and there. Arenas and Roy are no exception. Arenas was without Jamison, Foye, and Miller (3 key rotation players) while Caron underwhelmed. On our team Gilbert wouldn't have to take on that big of a role to be the sole force of the team.

The fact is, if Roy has a bad night for your Knicks, you guys are screwed badly. Mo is proving in Cleveland that, as a #2 option, he can't win a Championship with LEBRON so stop trying to pass him off as some prolific Superstar PG. Mo wishes he had Gilbert's offensive ability. Arenas is top 10 in scoring for this season so far. It still doesn't negate the fact that your team doesn't have the star power to compete with us. One off-night from Gilbert won't lose us a 7 game play-off series, especially when WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE.

Here you want the box score to that game:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AitXnBner6ousENOTlXiQHpYPaB4?gid=200 9110822

Brandon Roy - 25 minutes / 1 of 6 from the field, 7 assists, 1 turnover, 1 steal, Blazers win by 23.

I can guarantee 2 things:
1. If they were losing he would have ended up shooting more and bringing up that 1 for 6.
2. Gilbert Arenas ain't stopping at 6 shots.

Roy is a winner. End of discussion. Takes Aldridge Pryz, Oden, Blake, Fernandez to the 3rd best record in the west? You don't think he'd do better with my group?

You are saying Mo Williams isn't a #2 because he didn't win a championship in his one season with LeBron? I don't even think I have to explain how dumb that sounds. I don't even need him to be a clear cut #2 because I can get 15+ points out of Diaw and Lee and close to it with Camby and Butler. Especially since I have 3 guys who can distribute the ball on my TEAM. This TEAM is built to win in the playoffs because they can do it all.

KnicksorBust
11-11-2009, 12:41 AM
the knicks redraft team has the worst bench i have ever seen!!
rasual butler and Craig smith are OK but the others arent even close

Catfish edit my ****ing lineup please because these geniuses don't read write-ups and are banking on Skinner and Udoka playing 20 minutes per game for me when they weren't even sniff the court. I can't stand losing this matchup because people don't understand that I'm playing a 9 man rotation.

In close games it would look something like:

Center - Camby (36), Lee (12)
PF - Lee (28), Diaw (20)
SF - Diaw (22), Butler (26)
SG - Roy (42), Butler (6)
PG - Mo Williams (40), Sergio (8)

Therefore my BENCH EDGE IS DRAMATIC!

Lee >>>> Elson
Diaw >> Maxiell
Butler >>> Jones
Butler = Mo Evans
Sergio <<< Alston

Knicks >>>> Heat

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:43 AM
explain

B/c Bosh is putting up 29 and 11.6 this season and, with Amare/Lebron will be the grand prize of the 2010 Free Agency. His EFF is +30.71. That's ridiculously high. And R-Jeff is one of the league's best 3rd options and will give us 18/5 guaranteed. Especially with Udoka or Rasual covering him.

Now you just tried to compare those guys to Jamison who, is injured and doesn't even have stats for this season yet (career 19.9ppg and 8 boards) who is a poor man's Bosh and Rasual Butler! who career averages 8.4ppg and weighs 205 pounds. Not only is he an average defender, but he can't even bang with R-Jeff's bigger frame.

You said those two are equal to or better than Bosh and R-Jeff. You may catch some hell for that later on.

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 12:47 AM
Jamison's stats with Arenas in 07 (Arenas's last healthy season) 20 pts and eight boards on forty five percent shooting

Caron's stats with Arenas in 07 were 19 pts and 7.5 boards on forty six percent shooting, while providing magnificent defense.

There's no doubt that Bosh is superior to Jamison, but you think that there is a drastic gap between the two, which is incorrect. Jamison's stats the three years were 20 points and eight boards, 21 points and ten boards, and 22 points and nine boards, all on around 45 percent shooting. Bosh's numbers in the last three years were 23 points and eight boards, 22 points and nine boards, and 23 points and ten boards on around 48 percent shooting. So on offense, Bosh has Jamison by about a couple points and a board, while shooting slightly more efficiently. I'll give you that Bosh is slightly better on defense, but they are both nothing special on defense. Keep in mind that Jamison had to share the rock with Butler and Arenas in 06-07, and in 07-09 had to share the ball with caron, and had didn't have a jose calderon dishing the ball to him. Bosh and bargs were the primary scorers on Toronto, therefore he had many opportunities. He also had calderon dishing the ball to him.

Now Caron versus RJ is a landslide. Caron's numbers the last three years were 19, 7, and four; 20, 7, and 5; and 21, 7, 5, while shooting around 47 percent from the field. RJ the last three years was: 16, 4, and 3; 23, 4, and 3 (on a bad Nets team); 20, 4, and 2 (on an awful bucks team), while shooting around 45 percent from the field. Caron is a more efficients scorer, a more prolific rebounder, and a better distributer, while playing significantly better defense than RJ.

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 12:49 AM
B/c Bosh is putting up 29 and 11.6 this season and, with Amare/Lebron will be the grand prize of the 2010 Free Agency. His EFF is +30.71. That's ridiculously high. And R-Jeff is one of the league's best 3rd options and will give us 18/5 guaranteed. Especially with Udoka or Rasual covering him.

Now you just tried to compare those guys to Jamison who, is injured and doesn't even have stats for this season yet (career 19.9ppg and 8 boards) who is a poor man's Bosh and Rasual Butler! who career averages 8.4ppg and weighs 205 pounds. Not only is he an average defender, but he can't even bang with R-Jeff's bigger frame.

You said those two are equal to or better than Bosh and R-Jeff. You may catch some hell for that later on.

I meant caron butler buddy. why would i mention rasual and jamison?? that wouldn't even make sense.

UPost2Much
11-11-2009, 12:51 AM
Right, I see your argument. But, you have to envision how Gilbert would perform in a balanced team like ours. Gilbert actually has a TRUE starting caliber PG in Rafer backing him up. He also has a dominant force in Bosh who can take over any game at anytime. Combine that with R-Jeff's slashing and shooting ability and you have an Arenas that can sit back and shoot while the rest of our offensively sound team distributes the offensive load evenly amongst themselves. No more giant load for Gilbert.

The Knicks only perimeter defender is Diaw and KoB said he will be guarding Bosh most of the night. That leaves no one with solid Defense to guard Gilbert or Jefferson who are capable of putting 30+ points against suspect defenders.

The Wiz are terrible. D Wade went through some of the same pains as Gilbert is going through when the Heat were struck with injury and won 15 games all season b/c Wade was trying to do too much and had mediocre help. No one on the Wizards shot a good percentage tonight. No one.

No, no, no. You are speaking completely hypothetically. That can't be used as evidence. The evidence would be what he has historically done in his career. You're trying to pretend he has been on the worst team in history throughout his entire career is misleading. While he has never been a CHAMPION (as you insulted Mo Williams for not being) he has had a solid supporting cast. The question I pose to you is: When he had a legitimate supporting cast, did Gilbert Arenas ever take a backseat to his teammates and become a more efficient and less selfish player? Answer: No.

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 12:53 AM
no, no, no. You are speaking completely hypothetically. That can't be used as evidence. The evidence would be what he has historically done in his career. You're trying to pretend he has been on the worst team in history throughout his entire career is misleading. While he has never been a champion (as you insulted mo williams for not being) he has had a solid supporting cast. The question i pose to you is: when he had a legitimate supporting cast, did gilbert arenas ever take a backseat to his teammates and become a more efficient and less selfish player? answer: No.

exactly

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 01:10 AM
No, no, no. You are speaking completely hypothetically. That can't be used as evidence. The evidence would be what he has historically done in his career. You're trying to pretend he has been on the worst team in history throughout his entire career is misleading. While he has never been a CHAMPION (as you insulted Mo Williams for not being) he has had a solid supporting cast. The question I pose to you is: When he had a legitimate supporting cast, did Gilbert Arenas ever take a backseat to his teammates and become a more efficient and less selfish player? Answer: No.

Dwyane Wade took 28 shots tonight. Gilbert is a #1 option. You call it selfish but #1 options on teams tend to take more shots than the role players. How is that confusing?

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 01:23 AM
Catfish edit my ****ing lineup please because these geniuses don't read write-ups and are banking on Skinner and Udoka playing 20 minutes per game for me when they weren't even sniff the court. I can't stand losing this matchup because people don't understand that I'm playing a 9 man rotation.

In close games it would look something like:

Center - Camby (36), Lee (12)
PF - Lee (28), Diaw (20)
SF - Diaw (22), Butler (26)
SG - Roy (42), Butler (6)
PG - Mo Williams (40), Sergio (8)

Therefore my BENCH EDGE IS DRAMATIC!

Lee >>>> Elson
Diaw >> Maxiell
Butler >>> Jones
Butler = Mo Evans
Sergio <<< Alston

Knicks >>>> Heat


What the hell are you doing man? This is so pathetic. You're comparing our bench to your starters in Lee and Diaw. And then you say you have the better bench by a landslide. Your bench is terrible. If you want to pull the "We're running with a 9-man rotation because the rest of our bench is utter trash" then we can do that too. Our 3 best bench players are better than your 3 best.

Mo Evans is a better defender than Rasual and is shooting a higher percentage (46%) from 3pt range this year.

Evans>>>>Rasual

Rafer>>>>Sergio

Maxiell>>>>Skinner

Your bench is just sad. Wanna see what a real bench comparison looks like?

Rafer>>>Sergio
Evans>>>Rasual
Jones===Udoka
Maxiell>>>Smith (His D is better than Smith's O)
Elson>>>Skinner (What a joke Skinner is)

A bench comparison is a comparison of your bench versus mine. Not your starters versus my bench. Comparing Lee to Elson, are you serious?

HEAT BENCH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KNICKS TRASH BENCH (Worst bench in the redraft).

J$mo0th_3o5
11-11-2009, 01:33 AM
I'll reiterate what I said "The Knicks bench is terrible":puke: (no offense)

KnicksorBust
11-11-2009, 01:59 AM
What the hell are you doing man? This is so pathetic. You're comparing our bench to your starters in Lee and Diaw. And then you say you have the better bench by a landslide. Your bench is terrible. If you want to pull the "We're running with a 9-man rotation because the rest of our bench is utter trash" then we can do that too. Our 3 best bench players are better than your 3 best.

Mo Evans is a better defender than Rasual and is shooting a higher percentage (46%) from 3pt range this year.

Evans>>>>Rasual

Rafer>>>>Sergio

Maxiell>>>>Skinner

Your bench is just sad. Wanna see what a real bench comparison looks like?

Rafer>>>Sergio
Evans>>>Rasual
Jones===Udoka
Maxiell>>>Smith (His D is better than Smith's O)
Elson>>>Skinner (What a joke Skinner is)

A bench comparison is a comparison of your bench versus mine. Not your starters versus my bench. Comparing Lee to Elson, are you serious?

HEAT BENCH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>KNICKS TRASH BENCH (Worst bench in the redraft).

You've officially given me a headache. You're comparing players that won't play and now just making ridiculous claims in the hopes of confusing people. Congratulations it seems to be working. The fact that you desperately keep pointing out bench players and that your have home court shows you're running out of ideas. Mo Evans the 15 minute bench player is better than Rasual the 30mpg starter because he's made 7-15 threes this year. Yeah that's right... :confused: Udoka and Skinner won't play. I actually gave you a minute by minute rotation to prove that. Steven Hunter would be my emergency center. Skinner was there as a joke but obviously you missed that joke because you and your co and assistant never go to the redraft forum and then like to ***** at catfish for not PM'ing you like little children and letting you know when it's time to do a writeup.

Sergio was 6th in the NBA in assists per 48.
Craig Smith was the 10th highest scoring PF per 48 min.
Rasual Butler is a starter who can hit 3's at a high clip (almost 40% last season), can score in double digits, and guards opponents best players ever night.
David Lee and Boris Diaw will slide to play backup roles at other positions.

Forget opinions this is what I've already proved:

1. Mo Williams is an effecient scorer.
2. Arenas is not.
3. Brandon Roy significantly has outplayed Ronnie Brewer all 8 games they have played head to head. Roy's statistics and performance improve over his regular numbers while Brewer's decrease.
4. Boris Diaw was able to score 22ppg on 67% shooting guarded by Bosh last season.
5. Marcus Camby has significantly outplayed Hawes in every game they've played head to head and never even allowed Hawes to make more than 4 shots in a game while shooting under 30% while Camby puts up double-doubles with about 3bpg his regular statistics.
6. I also have better rebounding with David (led the league in double-doubles last year with 65 beating out D12) Lee and Camby crashing the boards.
7. Your players require a lot of shots.
8. Your players collectively shoot a low percentage.
9. You only have one starter who averaged over 3apg in last season.
10. I have 3 starters who averaged over 4apg last season.

Your team has no one to create easy baskets for your 1 on 1 team while my team will use great ball movement (mo/roy/diaw), great slashing (mo/roy) great perimeter shooters (mo/roy/diaw/butler), good post players (lee/diaw), great pick and roll game (mo/lee), good perimeter defense (roy/diaw/butler), great shotblocking (camby) and the balance of my team will beat your individual "stars."

KnicksorBust
11-11-2009, 02:06 AM
Jamison's stats with Arenas in 07 (Arenas's last healthy season) 20 pts and eight boards on forty five percent shooting

Caron's stats with Arenas in 07 were 19 pts and 7.5 boards on forty six percent shooting, while providing magnificent defense.

There's no doubt that Bosh is superior to Jamison, but you think that there is a drastic gap between the two, which is incorrect. Jamison's stats the three years were 20 points and eight boards, 21 points and ten boards, and 22 points and nine boards, all on around 45 percent shooting. Bosh's numbers in the last three years were 23 points and eight boards, 22 points and nine boards, and 23 points and ten boards on around 48 percent shooting. So on offense, Bosh has Jamison by about a couple points and a board, while shooting slightly more efficiently. I'll give you that Bosh is slightly better on defense, but they are both nothing special on defense. Keep in mind that Jamison had to share the rock with Butler and Arenas in 06-07, and in 07-09 had to share the ball with caron, and had didn't have a jose calderon dishing the ball to him. Bosh and bargs were the primary scorers on Toronto, therefore he had many opportunities. He also had calderon dishing the ball to him.

Now Caron versus RJ is a landslide. Caron's numbers the last three years were 19, 7, and four; 20, 7, and 5; and 21, 7, 5, while shooting around 47 percent from the field. RJ the last three years was: 16, 4, and 3; 23, 4, and 3 (on a bad Nets team); 20, 4, and 2 (on an awful bucks team), while shooting around 45 percent from the field. Caron is a more efficients scorer, a more prolific rebounder, and a better distributer, while playing significantly better defense than RJ.

Great post. :clap:

Confusion
11-11-2009, 02:07 AM
Heat with Arenas and Bosh.

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 02:22 AM
The bottom line is you just can't win with a 7-man rotation. In your bench comparison you only included 2 true bench players (Rasual and Sergio) and the rest were starters. No matter which way you slice it, it gives you no right to compare your starters to our bench. You have Camby playing 36 minutes. Don't forget his age. The guy is old and doesn't ever play more than 30mpg, but that's a grave you've dug for yourself since you constructed a terrible bench.

Elson will never play for us. Stop comparing him to Lee b/c it makes you look silly. I don't care if you've labeled Lee's 2nd position as Center. Our 3-man rotation in the paint is Bosh, Hawes and Maxiell which is a nice combination of Outside/Inside scoring along with Maxiell's defense off the bench.

With Camby in the paint and Boris eating up the chunk of his minutes on Bosh, you literally have no one capable of guarding Gilbert or R-Jeff on the perimeter. Not to mention Brewer will give us 14ppg with a strong body and excellent slashing ability.

I understand you are getting frustrated with my arguments. We have a better bench than you and people are seeing it. You probably should have never posted a bench comparison in your write-up showing your starters against my bench players. It made you look silly and it's probably better for you if people skip that part. Your supporting cast isn't good enough to get you past our offensive (Gilbert, Rafer, Evans, R-jeff, Bosh, Hawes) and defensive (Evans, Brewer, Maxiell) threats.

Heat win this in Game 7 in front of our home crowd. ECF here we come.

thesparky33
11-11-2009, 03:18 AM
I am going to keep to my vote, and give it to the Knicks.

And yes, I saw your response in the other thread, LayZbone. I do think your lineup might look better with Alston at point and Arenas at the 2 just because I dont think Arenas is a true point guard... more of a shoot first, shoot 2nd, and pass 3rd point guard.

Also, I'm not a huge Bosh fan. I think he's an all-star talent in this league, but I wouldnt consider him a superstar in terms of talent (maybe marketing-wise and popularity).

UPost2Much
11-11-2009, 03:40 AM
Dwyane Wade took 28 shots tonight. Gilbert is a #1 option. You call it selfish but #1 options on teams tend to take more shots than the role players. How is that confusing?

Again, you fail to see the basis of the statement.

Let's recap:

1- A statement is made that Arenas can't be a stud, since he is extremely hit or miss, as proven by his track record.
2-You refute this statement by saying he A- won't have to do this with your team since he now has help, and B- that it's OK if he does since he is the #1 option on his team.

To respond to this, as I stated previously, he has had a strong supporting cast in the past. That is not new to him. He has played the same game regardless as to which teammates he had. Agreed? Of course...indisputable.

Secondarily, if we can assume he will continue to play the same way he has his entire career (selfishly to the point that he can either dominate or blow a game-which he does FAR too often to be considered an elite player), then it is NOT beneficial to have him running your team, since his level of efficiency is in the basement. He would waste too many possessions against a very strong team.

I am well aware that #1 options take more shots than role players. My issue is that Arenas is the polar opposite of efficient, and that playing in front of his home crowd, in a game 7 as predicted, his fans probably wouldn't love his 12 turnovers... Right, everyone has a bad game here and there... how many elite players have had 5 of them in the 8 games played so far this season?? Zero. Because Agent Zero is not an elite player. And isn't even close.

He does have a great commercial with Dwight Schrute though. That should count for something I'm sure...

roshan3ai
11-11-2009, 05:45 PM
bump