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Mavrix
11-10-2009, 04:00 PM
Wow... :facepalm:

Ballot just came out for voting and Kaman isn't anywhere on the list. He would be my clear cut choice for starting center in the west with the way he's tearing it up. Too bad you can't vote for him.

jimbobjarree
11-10-2009, 04:02 PM
I'm sure he'll be everybodys write in choice

defender4m
11-10-2009, 04:08 PM
yea he should be on the list hes having a great season so far.

albertc86
11-10-2009, 04:12 PM
I think Kaman is extremely underrated. I've been saying this for years. I know the Clippers are seen as a cursed franchised but Kaman gets no love.

Mavrix
11-10-2009, 04:24 PM
I think Kaman is extremely underrated. I've been saying this for years. I know the Clippers are seen as a cursed franchised but Kaman gets no love.

He's averaging 22 ppg 10 rpg 2 bpg and no love.

DerekRE_3
11-10-2009, 05:08 PM
If he keeps it up the Coaches will vote him in.

ElMarroAfamado
11-10-2009, 05:10 PM
what the...i believe he has been on in years past....
can someone tell me the centers that ARE on the ballot?

GoatMilk
11-10-2009, 05:18 PM
no Kaman on the ballot

but Blake Griffin, who hasnt played a game, is.

i hate the ASG voting

Cool007
11-10-2009, 05:24 PM
That is so absurd.

Kaman not even in the ballot is just plain PATHETIC and whoever made the list should be fired right now. How can Al Thorton be on the ballot but not Kaman???

Also, in the east, how can Noah be not on the list - they put Brad Miller in there instead??? Who is a backup center for Bulls - yet Miller is there but not Noah.

Unbelievable.

Chronz
11-10-2009, 06:17 PM
Brad Miller > Noah

Just like Hinrich > Rose

*Superman*
11-10-2009, 06:20 PM
He's averaging 22 ppg 10 rpg 2 bpg and no love.

:speechless: Wow those stats and not on the list?

Stunner
11-10-2009, 06:50 PM
No noah either! But theres a brad miller?

MiamiHeat
11-10-2009, 07:47 PM
damn
Mario Chalmers is the only one missing.
I could've voted for an all Heat lineup :D

AI4MVP
11-10-2009, 07:58 PM
wow whoever made this list should be ****in fired. How the flying **** do u put antoni muthr fukin mcdouche but u dontput chris kaman? i dont care if he looks like a cave man with down syndrome. he could be the best center in the west right now and its an absolute no brainer that he should be on the ballot. i hope this is realized, he gets added, and whoever made this list gets fired

and another mistake. blake griffin? really? dude hasnt played a game in the nba, AND hes a rookie so u cant sa hes on there becuz of his past success in the nba. if blake griffin is guna b on there, tyreke evans and brandon yung buck jennings need to be on there.

but this kaman thing is really bothering me.

bigsams50
11-10-2009, 08:05 PM
Tht sucks, i just dont get it, they got both sheed and perkins on the east side, y couldnt they put both camby and kaman

MakaSizzle
11-10-2009, 08:25 PM
Brad Miller > Noah

Just like Hinrich > Rose

Brad Miller is the worst basketball player on floor level. This includes the luvabulls and matadors.

Chronz
11-10-2009, 08:29 PM
Brad Miller is the worst basketball player on floor level. This includes the luvabulls and matadors.

Not buying it, Bulls fans know as much about their players as the media tells them to believe. The importance of a shooting bigman go far beyond what you know about the game, its simple. The Bulls best lineups include him for that sole purpose, he makes players around him better. He has his shortcomings and its why hes no longer an all-star, but a fading all-star is still better than Noah based on what Ive seen from him last year. I havent seen much of him this year and I know his stats qualify what one would deem an all-star these days for a bigman, but Id like to see him sustain this level of play all year before saying hes better than Brad.

If thats what your arguing so be it, Ill agree. But Id like you to find me some substantial proof that the Bulls were better with Noah than Brad last year.

Ni55anpat
11-10-2009, 08:35 PM
Kaman is white. no love

ko8e24
11-10-2009, 08:39 PM
He's averaging 22 ppg 10 rpg 2 bpg and no love.

that w/o Blake Griffin on the court.


And with Bynum, hes average 20 ppg 10 rpg 1.2 bpg with no Pau Gasol, but with Kobe Bryant (leading the league in scoring at 33.6 ppg) being the primary option, not Bynum.


And Amare or Duncan gonna be chosen as starting C anyways due to popularity, its just a matter of the head coaches choosing that reserve center, and they'll most likely choose an all-star on an elite team then an all-star on a lottery team (if Griffin doesn't come back soon; if he does, they could make playoffs)

ko8e24
11-10-2009, 08:41 PM
Not buying it, Bulls fans know as much about their players as the media tells them to believe. The importance of a shooting bigman go far beyond what you know about the game, its simple. The Bulls best lineups include him for that sole purpose, he makes players around him better. He has his shortcomings and its why hes no longer an all-star, but a fading all-star is still better than Noah based on what Ive seen from him last year. I havent seen much of him this year and I know his stats qualify what one would deem an all-star these days for a bigman, but Id like to see him sustain this level of play all year before saying hes better than Brad.

If thats what your arguing so be it, Ill agree. But Id like you to find me some substantial proof that the Bulls were better with Noah than Brad last year.



oh , and Im not really replyin on ur post, but rather, wut u have written on sig. It's actually

"Long shots lead to long rebounds"

not offensive rebounds. Long rebounds indicating that the rebound could be way out of reach for the guy who has the position to rebound and may go as far prolly back to where the shooter was standing when he shot the ball. just FYI

op12
11-10-2009, 10:36 PM
ive always thought kaman was extremely underrated.

op12
11-10-2009, 10:38 PM
that w/o Blake Griffin on the court.


And with Bynum, hes average 20 ppg 10 rpg 1.2 bpg with no Pau Gasol, but with Kobe Bryant (leading the league in scoring at 33.6 ppg) being the primary option, not Bynum.


And Amare or Duncan gonna be chosen as starting C anyways due to popularity, its just a matter of the head coaches choosing that reserve center, and they'll most likely choose an all-star on an elite team then an all-star on a lottery team (if Griffin doesn't come back soon; if he does, they could make playoffs)

does every thread about a center have to come back to bynum? were talking about kaman here.

Toenail Clipper
11-10-2009, 10:51 PM
This is a plot by David Stern to make sure that Andrew Bynum enters the list, knowing that the other four Clipper candidates, Davis, Camby, Griffin, and Thornton would not get voted. Chris Kaman should definitely start.

Lakersfan2483
11-10-2009, 10:57 PM
This is a plot by David Stern to make sure that Andrew Bynum enters the list, knowing that the other four Clipper candidates, Davis, Camby, Griffin, and Thornton would not get voted. Chris Kaman should definitely start.

:laugh2:

daleja424
11-10-2009, 11:07 PM
they make the bllot during the offseason so it is based on projected stats

RaptorizedKevin
11-11-2009, 01:29 AM
blake griffen hasnt played one nba game to my knowledge and hes already lsited for all star voteing? and kaman is putting up 20 and 10? wow.. the nba is messed up..

Bishnoff
11-11-2009, 01:50 AM
He (Kaman) should be listed.

Lost Art
11-11-2009, 01:58 AM
Its going to be Bynum or Amare as the starter anyway..........the Clippers are just too terrible of a team. Guys putting up stats on a bad team rarely get much consideration for the ASG. If he's still tearing it up come February, and the Clippers aren't buried in losses, the coaches will put him on the team.

kozelkid
11-11-2009, 01:59 AM
they make the bllot during the offseason so it is based on projected stats

yup. Although I think it would be better if they would delay it a couple more weeks or so if it means a more accurate ballot.

championships
11-11-2009, 02:22 AM
Oh shucks. Whatever shall we do?

Confusion
11-11-2009, 02:23 AM
yea he should be on the list hes having a great season so far.Agreed, but it can change. He does deserve to be on the list thus far though.

Mavrix
11-11-2009, 02:30 AM
Its going to be Bynum or Amare as the starter anyway..........the Clippers are just too terrible of a team. Guys putting up stats on a bad team rarely get much consideration for the ASG. If he's still tearing it up come February, and the Clippers aren't buried in losses, the coaches will put him on the team.I'm sorry to burst your homer bubble but Kaman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynum

Lost Art
11-11-2009, 02:32 AM
I'm sorry to burst your homer bubble but Kaman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynum

Sure he is :crazy:

Mavrix
11-11-2009, 02:34 AM
Sure he is :crazy:

Man crush :facepalm:

GoatMilk
11-11-2009, 03:00 AM
This is a plot by David Stern to make sure that Andrew Bynum enters the list, knowing that the other four Clipper candidates, Davis, Camby, Griffin, and Thornton would not get voted. Chris Kaman should definitely start.

Bynum won't get more votes than Amare.

BS that Amare is listed as a C though.
He's PHX's PF, not C. he wasnt even Center last year, Shaq was


and Blake Griffin shouldnt be on the ballot either.

it's simple. take Griffin off, put Amare as F, add Kaman.


but that makes too much sense

thesparky33
11-11-2009, 03:36 AM
First time any of the Centers have a legit shot of getting the starting spot in the West (since Yao is injured), and Kaman gets the shaft not being on the ballot, lol.

I am curious to see how many votes Yao gets regardless, since Yi Jianlian got a ton of write-in votes a couple years ago...

Raph12
11-11-2009, 03:53 AM
Bynum>Kaman IMO

Kaman is a stat-buff, when Griffin returns and gets a feel for the NBA, Kaman will be forgotten and so will his stats.

Lakersfan2483
11-11-2009, 04:05 AM
I'm sorry to burst your homer bubble but Kaman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bynum

Kaman doesn't have as much impact on winning as Andrew does. Bynum is better.

Chronz
11-11-2009, 12:40 PM
that w/o Blake Griffin on the court.


And with Bynum, hes average 20 ppg 10 rpg 1.2 bpg with no Pau Gasol, but with Kobe Bryant (leading the league in scoring at 33.6 ppg) being the primary option, not Bynum.

Youve basically said nothing about their stats. Bynum is the better player but its not for the excuses your making. Remember Bynum is playing 40MPG, Kaman is getting that 22-10 in 37MPG.



oh , and Im not really replyin on ur post, but rather, wut u have written on sig. It's actually

"Long shots lead to long rebounds"

not offensive rebounds. Long rebounds indicating that the rebound could be way out of reach for the guy who has the position to rebound and may go as far prolly back to where the shooter was standing when he shot the ball. just FYI
In a roundabout way its what I was getting at.
You may be right, maybe I heard it wrong but the general idea I got is that the more 3's you take the more offensive rebounds your likely to get simply by virtue of them becoming long rebounds.

Chronz
11-11-2009, 12:41 PM
Bynum>Kaman IMO

Kaman is a stat-buff, when Griffin returns and gets a feel for the NBA, Kaman will be forgotten and so will his stats.

So Kaman getting better teammates and having a better chance to rack up W's is suppose to hurt his All-Star chances? Im not following

Lost Art
11-11-2009, 01:14 PM
So Kaman getting better teammates and having a better chance to rack up W's is suppose to hurt his All-Star chances? Im not following

The point is that just about any decent player can put on big numbers on a horrible team..........but it takes a different caliber of player to put up big numbers as a main cog on a winning team. Bynum hasn't just been putting up big numbers on the Lakers, he's also had a big impact on the outcome of the game.......which in most cases has been a W.

Raph12
11-11-2009, 01:19 PM
So Kaman getting better teammates and having a better chance to rack up W's is suppose to hurt his All-Star chances? Im not following

Kaman wouldn't put up the same stats if he played in Bynum's shoes... y-o-u f-o-l-l-o-w m-e n-o-w o-r a-m I s-t-i-l-l g-o-i-n-g t-o-o f-a-s-t f-o-r y-o-u?

MTone8788
11-11-2009, 01:29 PM
So Kaman getting better teammates and having a better chance to rack up W's is suppose to hurt his All-Star chances? Im not following

Are you that oblivious?!

Wow, you're like a teenage blond girl with that post...

The dude is trying to say that once Blake Griffin returns then Kaman will not be putting up nearly the numbers he is now because he won't have such a load to take on.

And he is saying how Bynum is on great team with the Lakers and still has a huge role and is delivering with great numbers.


**I'm not going to read this whole thread, but did anyone mention that Kaman is not on the ballot because Marcus Camby is?

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10528/inside-the-all-star-ballot-selections


It's not rocket science.

Chronz
11-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Are you that oblivious?!

Wow, you're like a teenage blond girl with that post...

The dude is trying to say that once Blake Griffin returns then Kaman will not be putting up nearly the numbers he is now because he won't have such a load to take on.

And he is saying how Bynum is on great team with the Lakers and still has a huge role and is delivering with great numbers.


**I'm not going to read this whole thread, but did anyone mention that Kaman is not on the ballot because Marcus Camby is?

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10528/inside-the-all-star-ballot-selections


It's not rocket science.

LOL lets see, either I dont know stats or your completely missing the point of my post.

LMFAO which do you think is more realistic?

Chronz
11-11-2009, 01:37 PM
Kaman wouldn't put up the same stats if he played in Bynum's shoes... y-o-u f-o-l-l-o-w m-e n-o-w o-r a-m I s-t-i-l-l g-o-i-n-g t-o-o f-a-s-t f-o-r y-o-u?
How cute, mind answering the question


The point is that just about any decent player can put on big numbers on a horrible team..........but it takes a different caliber of player to put up big numbers as a main cog on a winning team. Bynum hasn't just been putting up big numbers on the Lakers, he's also had a big impact on the outcome of the game.......which in most cases has been a W.
How do you know his #'s wont go up with Blakes presence? Of course Bynum is going to have more W's, his team won a championship with him at 50%, now that hes healthier and the Lakers have had a cupcake schedule its only logical he ends up with more W's. Kaman is arguably his teams best player, Bynum may be better than Kaman but comparing team records with no context is irrelevant here.


Just so you guys know where I stand, I know Kaman isnt Bynum and I know hes not as good as the #'s hes posting, but its so not for the reasons you guys are giving. The manner in which you guys are presenting your "matter of fact" argument is flawed. Bynum has put up better #'s when hes not as much of a focal point, what makes you think Kaman is so different.

If Kaman didnt carry such a burden he could take higher% looks, and work the offensive glass more (what a shock, his offensive rebounding #'s are down this year) so he could improve in other facets and maintain the same statistical impact. I thought he was playing out of his mind early, but thus far hes been All-Star caliber and on Bynums level. The excuses you guys have made are just that.

Chronz
11-11-2009, 02:05 PM
First of all it is a joke to even have the All-Star ballot out and no team has played even ten games yet. It is far too early to release the ballot and much to soon to even vote. No matter how bad it is to have the ballot out this early it is a far greater travesty for Kaman to not even be on the ballot. This tells me that that ballot was probably created before the season even started, which makes absolutely no sense at all.
Agreed, but as the coaches have proven. They could have up until that deadline before turning in their ballots and still elect the wrong players, though not as bad as Fans voting by early november

Raph12
11-11-2009, 02:38 PM
How cute, mind answering the question.

Racking up Ws isn't the only thing that gets you into the All-Star game, winning games is important only if you are a big part of the reason why your team wins...

On the Lakers playing alongside Kobe and Gasol, Kamam would not fit that bill.

Chronz
11-11-2009, 03:04 PM
Racking up Ws isn't the only thing that gets you into the All-Star game, winning games is important only if you are a big part of the reason why your team wins...
Are you saying Kaman isnt a big part of why the Clippers would win? Even though he has a coach whos dead set on pounding him the ball? And in this theoretical world where Blake helps the Clippers win more games, why would Kaman be any less a part of that than Bynum winning with Kobe and Pau? Are Kobe and Pau not greater teammates than anything Kaman has to work with, so why wouldnt Kaman be just as responsible for his teams success as Bynum? Why not just hold the 2 accountable for what they do instead, why make excuses that are based on ........... what exactly? All I know is based on the early results, Kaman has rivaled Drew in the performance/impact department. Drew may be the better player, but like Ive said what seems like a million times now, its not for the ballsac excuses about what Kaman would or wouldnt look like playing alongside Kobe.




On the Lakers playing alongside Kobe and Gasol, Kamam would not fit that

Yes I get that you feel that, now comes the explanation process.

Ive explained my part to LA, but Ill rehash it to you with your example. Bynum has yet to play with Pau this year so what does that have to do with THIS comparison? How exactly would Kaman play alongside Pau and Kobe or any card you want to play....


----------------------------------
Someone explain to me how Kobe can be both the cause for a players success and failure to produce.

albertc86
11-11-2009, 03:08 PM
Kaman should be on the ballot, no doubt. He'll put those numbers up against the best in the league. Kaman is good with both hands and a solid player all around.

GAWDtv
11-11-2009, 04:03 PM
No Zack Randolph either, but AI is still thier. I will votefor AI EVERYDAY, ALL HIS FANS WILL and we will show the L you cant keep good man down!!

Lost Art
11-11-2009, 10:31 PM
How cute, mind answering the question


How do you know his #'s wont go up with Blakes presence? Of course Bynum is going to have more W's, his team won a championship with him at 50%, now that hes healthier and the Lakers have had a cupcake schedule its only logical he ends up with more W's. Kaman is arguably his teams best player, Bynum may be better than Kaman but comparing team records with no context is irrelevant here.


Just so you guys know where I stand, I know Kaman isnt Bynum and I know hes not as good as the #'s hes posting, but its so not for the reasons you guys are giving. The manner in which you guys are presenting your "matter of fact" argument is flawed. Bynum has put up better #'s when hes not as much of a focal point, what makes you think Kaman is so different.

If Kaman didnt carry such a burden he could take higher% looks, and work the offensive glass more (what a shock, his offensive rebounding #'s are down this year) so he could improve in other facets and maintain the same statistical impact. I thought he was playing out of his mind early, but thus far hes been All-Star caliber and on Bynums level. The excuses you guys have made are just that.

Fair enough, can't say that I disagree............IMO the best judge of talent are my two eyes, and anyone with any sense would take Bynum over Kaman in a heartbeat.........and from what I've read from you so far, I think that you'd probably agree with that.

Faces
11-11-2009, 10:45 PM
The reason why Kaman and Noah aren't on the ballot is because the ballot is created in October...


An august panel of ESPN.comís Marc Stein, Mike Breen of ABC, Ian Thomsen of Sports Illustrated, Marc Spears of Yahoo! Sports, Eddie Sefko of the Dallas Morning News and little old me (itís a benefit of being president of the Professional Basketball Writers Association) had to come up with the names keeping in mind some tricky criteria.

We had to find 24 forwards, 24 guards and 12 centres from each conference and the one thing that made it hardest was the fact each team had to have three guys on the ballot. We also decided as a group that, outside of No. 1 pick Blake Griffin, we wouldnít have any rookies on the ballot; in my opinion the right decision because they have to prove something before being considered. Griffin? An honour for being No. 1.

Sounds simple? Well, find us a third Minnesota Timberwolves rep, outside of Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. Or a Buck after Andrew Bogut and Michael Redd. Thatís how guys like Ramon Sessions and Hakim Warrick end up on the ballot.

Adding to the difficulty was that we had to make our choices in October, for logistical reasons, which is why Marcus Camby got the nod over Chris Kaman, and why Brad Millerís on the ballot and not Joakim Noah. I donít think any of us, or many of you, saw the starts coming that Kaman and Noah have had.

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

Who can expect a panel that started talking in August and finished the ballot in October to have guessed that Kaman and Noah to be playing the way they are right now?

Toenail Clipper
11-11-2009, 10:56 PM
The reason why Kaman and Noah aren't on the ballot is because the ballot is created in October...



http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

Who can expect a panel that started talking in August and finished the ballot in October to have guessed that Kaman and Noah to be playing the way they are right now?

Well, how about the last year's All-Star game? Mo Williams, Danny Granger, Jameer Nelson, and Devin Harris were on the All-Star game for the first time. I am not exactly sure whether they were in the ballot or not, but NBA should consider the fact that there might be outbreaks were they suddenly become great players. Therefore, they should make the ballots in between the beginning of the season, and the all star game. I'm sure the NBA has time on their hands and rushing the creation of the ballots isn't necessary.

Toenail Clipper
11-11-2009, 10:59 PM
Bynum>Kaman IMO

Kaman is a stat-buff, when Griffin returns and gets a feel for the NBA, Kaman will be forgotten and so will his stats.

No, they can both share the ball. It's not like Blake Griffin will just hog the ball and be inconsiderate to his teammates.

mrblisterdundee
11-11-2009, 11:10 PM
They're jealous of Kaman joining the German team for the Olympics. The NBA people wanted those 10.4 points and 6 rebounds per game. They're still trying to get Dirk naturalized.

Kakaroach
11-11-2009, 11:14 PM
Can they alter the ballot now? Cuz Kamayne should definitely be on it.

AllTheWay
11-11-2009, 11:37 PM
Bynum iz da best.

But seriously, Bynum tends to out-duel Kaman every time they meet.

championships
11-12-2009, 12:20 AM
Its a popularity contest just like baseball. Lots of people who deserve to be there won't. Wouldn't be surprised to see T-Mac there.

MakaSizzle
11-12-2009, 01:20 PM
Not buying it, Bulls fans know as much about their players as the media tells them to believe. The importance of a shooting bigman go far beyond what you know about the game, its simple. The Bulls best lineups include him for that sole purpose, he makes players around him better. He has his shortcomings and its why hes no longer an all-star, but a fading all-star is still better than Noah based on what Ive seen from him last year. I havent seen much of him this year and I know his stats qualify what one would deem an all-star these days for a bigman, but Id like to see him sustain this level of play all year before saying hes better than Brad.

If thats what your arguing so be it, Ill agree. But Id like you to find me some substantial proof that the Bulls were better with Noah than Brad last year.

No no no. Chicago media loves the guy along with hinrich I wonder why:eyebrow:. I dont know where he gets the knack of still being a good passing big man. He is a High Risk passer at his best, his turnovers :facepalm:. Him thinking he can consistenly knock down a three when if he takes 2 steps in and his percentage doubles:facepalm:. His D is atrocious his rebounding sub par. His a one trick pony he has a good mid range game. But him better than Noah at the C:facepalm:. Noah leading the league in rebounds top 5 in blocks and getting 12 points on over 60% shooting. I take Noah. If you want shooting you got Taj gibison who plays just like Noah with a Jumper but less tenacity and you get Rookie mistakes with but so be it. Way better than Miller.

-TRUTH

Chronz
11-12-2009, 01:24 PM
No no no. Chicago media loves the guy along with hinrich I wonder why:eyebrow:. I dont know where he gets the knack of still being a good passing big man. He is a High Risk passer at his best, his turnovers :facepalm:. Him thinking he can consistenly knock down a three when if he takes 2 steps in and his percentage doubles:facepalm:. His D is atrocious his rebounding sub par. His a one trick pony he has a good mid range game. But him better than Noah at the C:facepalm:. Noah leading the league in rebounds top 5 in blocks and getting 12 points on over 60% shooting. I take Noah. If you want shooting you got Taj gibison who plays just like Noah with a Jumper but less tenacity and you get Rookie mistakes with but so be it. Way better than Miller.

-TRUTH

Respect for being a Bulls fan, seeing what I wrote and instead of flipping out and flaming me, proceeding to tell me why Im wrong. I dont agree with everything you said but I can respect your stance.