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Catfish1314
11-09-2009, 08:42 PM
Once or a twice year, PSD holds an NBA ReDraft. In this game played by PSD users, all the players in the NBA go into a draft pool. A lottery is held to determine the order and in 12 rounds of drafting and trading the GMs try to create the best team possible.

This second round match-up features the top seeded Miami Heat versus the 4th seeded New York Knicks. The Heat have homecourt advantage. Their respective rosters and write-ups are listed below:

Keep in mind these are not the real life teams.

Heat:

PG: Gilbert Arenas/Rafer Alston
SG: Ronnie Brewer/Maurice Evans
SF: Richard Jefferson/James Jones/James Johnson
PF: Chris Bosh/Jason Maxiell/Eduardo Najera
C: Spencer Hawes/Francisco Elson

Knicks:

C - Marcus Camby / Brian Skinner / Steven Hunter
PF - David Lee / Craig Smith
SF - Boris Diaw / Ime Udoka
SG - Brandon Roy / Rasual Butler
PG - Mo Williams / Sergio Rodriguez / Shaun Livingston

The Heat did not send in a write-up.

Knicks write-up:


Read these writeups carefully and ignore the flashiness of his roster. Look for substance in these teams and you will clearly see the Knicks will win this series.

C - Marcus Camby vs. Spencer Hawes
There’s a reason Camby still goes 2 and a half rounds earlier than Hawes. Hawes game’s vs. Camby: 0-1, 1-5, 4-11, 3-6, 2-8, 4-18 for a combined 5.8 ppg on 14/49 from the field (28.5fg%) So don’t even try and tell me this is an edge for him. 2007 Hawes couldn’t score on him and 2008 Hawes couldn’t score on him. Hawes’s inconsistency this year proves he hasn’t taken a jump further either. Meanwhile, Camby’s averages vs. Hawes: 10.4ppg, 13.8rpb, 2.8bpg, 48% fg
This shows me that while Hawes gets worse, Camby is playing his SAME GAME.
Sidenote: Backups David Lee vs. Elson is a slam dunk for me.

Edge: Knicks

PF – David Lee/Boris Diaw vs. Chris Bosh
Boris Diaw will get significant minutes at the PF in this series with Lee playing some center. Bosh went 0-2 vs. Diaw last year. Game 1: Bosh goes for 18 on 5-12 from the field in 39 minutes. Diaw matches him with 14 on 7-12 from the field in only 27 minutes in a 26 point victory. Game 2: Bosh puts up 35 (!) on 8-17 from the field in 41 minutes. BUT Boris Diaw scores 30 on 15-21 from the field in 38 minutes and the Cats won by 13.
Final Stats: Bosh – 26.5 ppg/45% fg
Diaw – 22ppg/67% fg

It’s a situation you can’t ignore. His player will get his but SO WILL MINE. Bosh has never been considered a top defender. On the other hand, David Lee has improved every year in this league to the point that he’s averaging 20-10 this year on 60%fg. Bosh may put up 25 ppg but he’s gonna need a lot of shots while Lee and Diaw can score in a variety of ways on my end and Diaw has proven to be a handful for Bosh head to head.

Edge: Heat

SF – Boris Diaw/Rasual Butler vs. Richard Jefferson
Richard Jefferson is another player who, while a good player, shoots a low percentage and needs a lot of shots (19th in FGA last season) to get his points. Keep this in mind. Defensively he was better in NJ in 07 than in 08 where he regressed with the Bucks. With a weak backup like James Jones this matchup is even.

Edge: Even

SG – Brandon Roy vs. Ronnie BrewerEven though Brandon Roy got outplayed by Rip Hamilton I’ve managed to advance to the second round (I’m kidding Haris, relax). Read this section very carefully and do not get fooled into the Heat’s “We respect Roy but Brewer is a good defender who puts up 13-15ppg and will limit Roy’s effectiveness” because it just ain’t true. This is a landslide victory for me. Since 2007, they have played a total 9 games head to head. The Blazers are 6-3 in these games and Roy has outscored Brewer 8-1 in these games. The one game Brewer won? Roy was injured and only played 9 minutes. Meaning = A Healthy Brandon Roy STOMPS on Ronnie Brewer. Even Kobe loses a head to head every once in a while. 8-0 over a 3 year span is incredibly lopsided! Even including the injury game Roy has averaged 22.1 ppg shooting 55%FG (better than his regular season average) to Brewer’s 10.6ppg on 49%FG.

Huge Edge: Knicks
PG – Mo Williams vs. Gilbert Arenas
This is easy for me to write because I’ve never liked Gilbert Arenas. Back in 2006 I actually started a thread in the nba forum and listed the 5 guys I believed could never win an NBA Championship and Arenas was #1. He really fits with this Miami Heat team because he’s talented and he loves to shoot the ball at a low percentage.
This season, people are already saying Arenas is “back.” Yes he is. He’s back to having monsterous games 40% of the time while 60% of the time he has weak to awful games that usually lose the game.

Game 1: 10-21 (48%fg) for 29 points, 9 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 11 point win
Game 2: 9-22 (40%fg) for 23 points, 4 assists, 7 turnovers in an 11 point loss
Game 3: 9-13 (69%!) for 32 points, 7 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 19 point win
Game 4: 7-18 (39%fg) for 22 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 12 point loss
Game 5: 9-27 (33%fg) for 32 points, 3 assists, 3 turnovers, in a 4 point loss

THIS IS GILBERT ARENAS!! I couldn’t have imagined a more accurate description of his style than those first 5 games. He’s putting up 27.6ppg and 5.6apg which looks amazing but how can his team consistently win when he misses 13, 11, 18 shots and has 4 turnovers per game. I completely believe in this series Arenas will help the Heat tremendously in 2-3 of their wins and KILL them in 3-4 of their loses.

For the Knicks, we have All-Star Mo Williams who was 14th in the NBA last season (#3 PG behind Steve Nash/Jose Calderon) in Effective Field Goal Percentage. His 3pt shot and 2pt jumper are remarkably consistent. Also, he fits perfectly with a guy like Roy because, like with LeBron, he can allow Roy to dominate the ball during crunchtime while he plays on the wing and knocks down open threes at a high clip.

Edge: Knicks

Bench:
PG – Sergio vs. Alston – Edge Heat
SG – Butler vs. Evans – Edge: Knicks
SF – Butler vs. Jones – Huge Edge: Knicks
PF – Diaw/Smith vs. Maxiell – Huge Edge: Knicks
C – Lee vs. Elson – Huge Edge: Knicks
Edge: Knicks easily


Closing:
1. I’m clearly going to outshoot him in this series. In their last healthy seasons his starters FG %’s were as follows: 41.8, 50.9, 43.9, 48.7, 46.6
Knicks: 46.7, 48, 49.5, 54.9, 51.2

In fact, I have 3 of the top 15 players in the NBA last season in effective field goal percentage: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...9_leaders.html
Diaw – 11th
Lee – 13th
Mo Williams – 14th

He has one good defender and I have 3. If anything, his percentages would drop and mine would go up.

2. My team is exactly that. A TEAM. The Knicks have a PG who can slash, distribute, and play off the ball, a superstar at SG who can do it, a versatile SF who can play PF and loves to pass, a PF/C who is an elite rebounder, can finish with either hand at the rim (so underrated there!), and has a solid jumpshot, and a shotblocking rebounding C to protect the paint. It’s a team. It’s a team built for balance and a team built to win.

The Heat have two wanna-be #1’s taking 20 shots per game, a #3 who takes as many shots as a #1, and two big men both want to play on the perimeter! On paper they look good, but when you need to take 250 shots collectively to win, its gonna be hard to find that many possessions.

3. My bench is clearly better. Elson and James Jones don’t even play.

4. I have the best player on the court in Brandon Roy.

Knicks win the series and advance to the ECF.

SteveNash
11-09-2009, 08:45 PM
Knicks since the Heat would be lost with no sense of direction.

Catfish1314
11-09-2009, 08:48 PM
I also went with the Knicks given their logical breakdown that they actually took the time to do. Their write-up sold me and it would have been fairly close without it. Two really good teams either way.

LayZbone
11-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Crap. I haven't had time to make a write-up...(where's my co!)

Good luck to KoB. I really like your squad.

Kakaroach
11-09-2009, 08:56 PM
Whew I knew this was gonna be a toughy, and KOB's write-up is pretty impressive, except for the SF part, Jefferson is a whole lot better than Butler, no matter how you slice it. Knicks take it.

Silent
11-09-2009, 08:58 PM
arenas and bosh thats 2 superstars on the same team thats a deadly duo i have to go heat

LayZbone
11-09-2009, 09:02 PM
Catfish, you should have let us know when the writeups were due like you did for the 1st round. Kinda crept up on me. I'll see if my assistant or I can whip one together, and you can edit it in.

b_rad23
11-09-2009, 11:23 PM
You know what's BS? Knicks writes his starters in as backups and then says he has a huge advantage in his bench....:pity:

Catfish1314
11-09-2009, 11:30 PM
Catfish, you should have let us know when the writeups were due like you did for the 1st round. Kinda crept up on me. I'll see if my assistant or I can whip one together, and you can edit it in.

I did silly. Go look at the Playoff Match-up thread in the NBA ReDraft Forum. You guys had to know this was coming anyway. There was like a 2 day gap between the end of the 1st round and the start of the 2nd round. And this was the second set of 2nd round match-ups. I know people can get busy, but you didn't need notification and if you did I don't know how you found time for the ReDraft in the first place.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 12:01 AM
KoB you're write-up is a bit ridiculous at times to say the least. I honestly wish we would have had a chance to send in a write-up. We would have won this match-up in a close race.
Mo better than Gilbert? What's wrong with you? What point guards stats wouldn't be inflated playing next to the biggest monster (Lebron) in basketball?

Bosh a wannabe #1? That must be why he is one of the top prizes of the 2010 free agency. Have you seen him play this season?

Ronnie Brewer is one of the best defenders in the league and would seriously affect Roy's output. BTW Roy posted 2 points the other night. Pathetic.

Your front-court is going to hurt from Camby's negative ability to score and David Lee would get swallowed if you played him at Center, like you said you will.

You also mentioned Diaw getting significant minutes at the 4 slot to guard Bosh leaving Rasual Butler!! to guard R-Jeff.

The fact of the matter is we have 3 guys who can put up 30 points on any given night (hey remember when Gilbert threw down 60? weird). And defenders in Brewer, Evans and Maxiell that can handle threats on the perimeter while only having to focus on Lee in the paint.

You're head to head match-ups are void because those were real-life teams with chemistry of their own. We feel our team has a great balance of superstars and defenders that can do everything well.

We have slashers, shooters, defenders, rebounders, good passers, and to top it all off we have a great 6th man in Rafer who can come off the bench and distribute. Your team just wouldn't be able to keep up with us. We're lacking a write-up, but we pair up well with you guys and would win this game in real-life. I just wish PSD voters would read this and make a logical decision. We got the #1 seed for a good reason.

P.s. WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE IN THE PLAY-OFFS.

Kakaroach
11-10-2009, 12:17 AM
Well sometimes write-ups are needed.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 12:23 AM
Well sometimes write-ups are needed.

Yes, of course. They're essential to any play-off match-up. The teams are close in comparison and a write-up can seriously sway a decision. After I posted my small write-up above, we started getting the obvious votes. It's difficult to read a well written argument and then vote against it. I just hope I wasn't too late b/c our team is a serious contender for the Finals.

Kakaroach
11-10-2009, 12:27 AM
Yeah but if it was me I would have been on top of it, especially with all the work that goes into a re-draft. I would actually check out the re-draft forum and know when the match-ups are and make sure to get my write-up in on time. CatFish is easy to blame, but you need to be on top of it. Don't want all of that hard work go to waste just cuz you were lazy. :shrug:

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 12:42 AM
Yeah but if it was me I would have been on top of it, especially with all the work that goes into a re-draft. I would actually check out the re-draft forum and know when the match-ups are and make sure to get my write-up in on time. CatFish is easy to blame, but you need to be on top of it. Don't want all of that hard work go to waste just cuz you were lazy. :shrug:


Yea you're right. It did take a lot of hardwork to build a contender like ours, especially since we didn't make one trade.

Your out of line by even insinuating that I was lazy though. I have a full-time job and go to college full-time. I get on PSD to have fun and talk sports. If you check the draft board, we never took more than 10 minutes to make a pick throughout all 12 rounds of the draft. We were always on top of everything. Catfish sent us a PM when our 1st write-up was due. Why would we have any reason to believe that he wasn't going to do the same for the 2nd round match-up? It's too late to change anything now so I don't want to dwell on it, but it really did bum us out to see the match-up posted without a write-up. Think about it man, that was 2+ months of hardwork and draft strategizing.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 12:45 AM
You know what's BS? Knicks writes his starters in as backups and then says he has a huge advantage in his bench....:pity:

yes, yes he did. :facepalm:

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 12:51 AM
Yeah but if it was me I would have been on top of it, especially with all the work that goes into a re-draft. I would actually check out the re-draft forum and know when the match-ups are and make sure to get my write-up in on time. CatFish is easy to blame, but you need to be on top of it. Don't want all of that hard work go to waste just cuz you were lazy. :shrug:

We've never missed a pick, and we've always been on top of things. Extremely active. Is it so farfetched to expect a notice for round 2 when we received one for round 1?

I'm not sure "lazy" is the right word. We missed one post at the bottom of one thread. If I were the commish, I'd at least give a heads-up (PM) about an hour before posting the matchups, to the one team that didn't already send them in.....seriously, 1 short PM. Common courtesy to a couple of committed GMs that have never caused problems before.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 03:10 AM
bump

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 08:13 AM
You know what's BS? Knicks writes his starters in as backups and then says he has a huge advantage in his bench....:pity:

Yeah because Lee is going to backup Camby and Diaw/Smith are going to backup Lee. How is that hard to understand? It is a huge advantage when he takes out Spencer Hawes (because Camby will have been destroying him) and tries to put up Francisco "I don't play anymore" Elson and I get to put Lee at Center. The same David Lee who is throwing up 20-10s on any big man in the league these days. I think he can handle a past-his-prime player who doesn't play AT ALL anymore and wasn't even that good to begin with.


KoB you're write-up is a bit ridiculous at times to say the least. I honestly wish we would have had a chance to send in a write-up. We would have won this match-up in a close race.
Mo better than Gilbert? What's wrong with you? What point guards stats wouldn't be inflated playing next to the biggest monster (Lebron) in basketball?

Bosh a wannabe #1? That must be why he is one of the top prizes of the 2010 free agency. Have you seen him play this season?

Ronnie Brewer is one of the best defenders in the league and would seriously affect Roy's output. BTW Roy posted 2 points the other night. Pathetic.

Your front-court is going to hurt from Camby's negative ability to score and David Lee would get swallowed if you played him at Center, like you said you will.

You also mentioned Diaw getting significant minutes at the 4 slot to guard Bosh leaving Rasual Butler!! to guard R-Jeff.

The fact of the matter is we have 3 guys who can put up 30 points on any given night (hey remember when Gilbert threw down 60? weird). And defenders in Brewer, Evans and Maxiell that can handle threats on the perimeter while only having to focus on Lee in the paint.

You're head to head match-ups are void because those were real-life teams with chemistry of their own. We feel our team has a great balance of superstars and defenders that can do everything well.

We have slashers, shooters, defenders, rebounders, good passers, and to top it all off we have a great 6th man in Rafer who can come off the bench and distribute. Your team just wouldn't be able to keep up with us. We're lacking a write-up, but we pair up well with you guys and would win this game in real-life. I just wish PSD voters would read this and make a logical decision. We got the #1 seed for a good reason.

P.s. WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE. DON'T UNDERESTIMATE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE IN THE PLAY-OFFS.

This writeup is so shaky. What does Gilbert Arenas having one 60 point game like 3 seasons ago prove? How about you tell us the story of his most recent game 2 nights ago? The one where he went 7-22 with 4 turnovers and 5 personal fouls in a loss. That's a Gilbert Arenas special right there. Mo Williams can have big games for 30+ points but he doesn't have the rock-bottom awful games like Arenas where he kills his team. Arenas has those...like 2 out of every 5 games! I honestly would rather have Mo Williams because he's a lights out shooter as I proved in my write-up and he fits perfect with a superstar wing.

Next, how do you expect Brewer to limit Roy when he's NEVER DONE IT BEFORE? I knew you were going to throw that line of BS out there and I even put it in my write-up. Just explain that to me. They've played 9 games head to head and Roy has thoroughly outplayed him in 8 of them and was injured 9 minutes into the other game. Roy clearly has Brewer's number. It'd be a 25-10 landslide everygame. That's easily the biggest mismatch in the series and a huge advantage for me. My best player can't be stopped. You don't even have a top interior defender to protect the paint like I have with Camby. Meanwhile you are talking trash on Rasual Butler who was a starter on a good Hornets team last year putting up 11ppg on 39% 3pt shooting while guarding the opponents best scorer everynight. Then he got traded to the Clippers (Cp3 was pissed because it was a cap move) where he IMMEDIATELY took Al Thornton's job and is already up to 10 ppg in L.A. He's known as a great defender so I'm sure he do a respectable job on a 3rd-tier player like RJ and easily outplay your backup James Jones (another backup who isn't even in an NBA rotation right now) when Boris Diaw is playing PF.

I don't know how this went from 12-2 Knicks to 20-16 Heat but I wish I had a co-gm so I could get two votes for my team. Come on guys.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 09:19 AM
Yeah because Lee is going to backup Camby and Diaw/Smith are going to backup Lee. How is that hard to understand? It is a huge advantage when he takes out Spencer Hawes (because Camby will have been destroying him) and tries to put up Francisco "I don't play anymore" Elson and I get to put Lee at Center. The same David Lee who is throwing up 20-10s on any big man in the league these days. I think he can handle a past-his-prime player who doesn't play AT ALL anymore and wasn't even that good to begin with.

By that token, we can put Ronnie Brewer at the 3 for some minutes, Bosh at the 5. It doesn't change the fact that your starters are NOT your bench. You can't claim Diaw/Lee > Elson/Maxiell, and say your bench is better. Compare my guys to Udoka and Skinner.




This writeup is so shaky. What does Gilbert Arenas having one 60 point game like 3 seasons ago prove? How about you tell us the story of his most recent game 2 nights ago? The one where he went 7-22 with 4 turnovers and 5 personal fouls in a loss. That's a Gilbert Arenas special right there. Mo Williams can have big games for 30+ points but he doesn't have the rock-bottom awful games like Arenas where he kills his team. Arenas has those...like 2 out of every 5 games! I honestly would rather have Mo Williams because he's a lights out shooter as I proved in my write-up and he fits perfect with a superstar wing.

Dude, everyone has bad games. Maybe the team we've built around him is better than his supporting cast with the Wizards, and he won't be forced to throw up as many shots. The current Wizards are w/o Jamison. Gilbert will certainly be able to carry less of a load with this team. Mo Williams disappeared at times during the playoffs last year. Shooting closer to 30% for most games in the 2nd and 3rd round. He is an all-star point guard, benefiting from playing next to the king. Gilbert has consistently (except when injured) been playing at a superstar level.



Next, how do you expect Brewer to limit Roy when he's NEVER DONE IT BEFORE? I knew you were going to throw that line of BS out there and I even put it in my write-up. Just explain that to me. They've played 9 games head to head and Roy has thoroughly outplayed him in 8 of them and was injured 9 minutes into the other game. Roy clearly has Brewer's number. It'd be a 25-10 landslide everygame. That's easily the biggest mismatch in the series and a huge advantage for me. My best player can't be stopped.

Is there a way to find out how many times Roy scored on Brewer, or Brewer was able to alter Roy's shot? (I'm asking honestly, cause I don't know). It'd be one thing if we were analyzing game tapes....but looking at stat sheets for games between the Jazz/Blazers only tells half the story. How many times a game did they put AK47 on Roy? There are more factors to consider. The best we can do is make reasonable assumptions based on the reputation our players have built over the years. Brewer IS a tough defender, which is lucky for us best your best player plays his position. Does that cancel them out? hell no. Roy is a tough cover....but let's also not forget that we have another good defender in Mo Evans off the bench.




You don't even have a top interior defender to protect the paint like I have with Camby. Meanwhile you are talking trash on Rasual Butler who was a starter on a good Hornets team last year putting up 11ppg on 39% 3pt shooting while guarding the opponents best scorer everynight. Then he got traded to the Clippers (Cp3 was pissed because it was a cap move) where he IMMEDIATELY took Al Thornton's job and is already up to 10 ppg in L.A. He's known as a great defender so I'm sure he do a respectable job on a 3rd-tier player like RJ and easily outplay your backup James Jones (another backup who isn't even in an NBA rotation right now) when Boris Diaw is playing PF.

See? That's the same thing we're saying about Brewer/Evans. None of us know for sure. You bring up game logs, and that could be a sign that Brewer simply has no answer for Roy, but I'm not convinced. Interior D is our weakest aspect (though Maxiell is good), but every other area of our game is top notch. Crap on JJ all you want, but as a Heat fan I can attest to his great 3-point shooting ability and solid defense. He performed well for us against the Hawks last year in the playoffs.....at one point making two 4-point plays in a row.



I don't know how this went from 12-2 Knicks to 20-16 Heat but I wish I had a co-gm so I could get two votes for my team. Come on guys.

People were giving you the benefit of the doubt for the time you put into that writeup....assuming we just didn't care enough to make one of our own. We let it be known that that wasn't the case, and also provided a quick counter-argument to your writeup...so the voters get both sides of the story.

To be fair, we didn't even vote for ourselves (because we outnumber you) until you voted for yourself. The rules state that your vote will only count if the other GM also votes. I'll let Catfish make that call.

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 10:12 AM
By that token, we can put Ronnie Brewer at the 3 for some minutes, Bosh at the 5. It doesn't change the fact that your starters are NOT your bench. You can't claim Diaw/Lee > Elson/Maxiell, and say your bench is better. Compare my guys to Udoka and Skinner.
.

I have a 9 man rotation (like most playoff teams do). Skinner and Udoka won't even play. Camby would get the bulk of Center minutes with Lee as the backup. Meaning Lee > Elson. Lee would split PF with Diaw with Craig Smith getting spot minutes. Meaning Diaw/Smith > Maxiell. Diaw would split SF with Butler. Meaning Butler > James Jones. Roy would get the bulk of SG with Butler getting limitted minutes. Meaning Butler = Mo Evans (That's a close call, I'd say I have a slight edge but basically even). Mo Williams would get bulk of PG with Sergio getting limitted minutes. Rafer > Sergio - your only advantage off the bench.

Did I really have to clarify this? It was clear in my write-up.



Dude, everyone has bad games. Maybe the team we've built around him is better than his supporting cast with the Wizards, and he won't be forced to throw up as many shots. The current Wizards are w/o Jamison. Gilbert will certainly be able to carry less of a load with this team. Mo Williams disappeared at times during the playoffs last year. Shooting closer to 30% for most games in the 2nd and 3rd round. He is an all-star point guard, benefiting from playing next to the king. Gilbert has consistently (except when injured) been playing at a superstar level.
.

Yes but their bad games aren't anywhere NEAR as bad as Arenas's bad games. He has games that DESTROY his team 2 out of every 5 games. He consistently puts up these 7 for 22 from the field 4 turnover type games. This is the way he has ALWAYS played. Even when he had 'Twan and Tough Juice to help with the scoring. I hate his game.


Is there a way to find out how many times Roy scored on Brewer, or Brewer was able to alter Roy's shot? (I'm asking honestly, cause I don't know). It'd be one thing if we were analyzing game tapes....but looking at stat sheets for games between the Jazz/Blazers only tells half the story. How many times a game did they put AK47 on Roy? There are more factors to consider. The best we can do is make reasonable assumptions based on the reputation our players have built over the years. Brewer IS a tough defender, which is lucky for us best your best player plays his position. Does that cancel them out? hell no. Roy is a tough cover....but let's also not forget that we have another good defender in Mo Evans off the bench. .

Basketball reference compares players that were on the court for 25+ minutes together and were playing the same position. They were both playing SG and I'm sure Brewer was getting help. Yet Roy OUTPLAYED HIM SIGNIFICANTLY EVERY TIME! 8-0. That's not luck, that's having someone's number. Also, you don't have the interior D to help since you admit it's your "weakest aspect" in your next paragraph.



See? That's the same thing we're saying about Brewer/Evans. None of us know for sure. You bring up game logs, and that could be a sign that Brewer simply has no answer for Roy, but I'm not convinced. Interior D is our weakest aspect (though Maxiell is good), but every other area of our game is top notch. Crap on JJ all you want, but as a Heat fan I can attest to his great 3-point shooting ability and solid defense. He performed well for us against the Hawks last year in the playoffs.....at one point making two 4-point plays in a row.



People were giving you the benefit of the doubt for the time you put into that writeup....assuming we just didn't care enough to make one of our own. We let it be known that that wasn't the case, and also provided a quick counter-argument to your writeup...so the voters get both sides of the story.

To be fair, we didn't even vote for ourselves (because we outnumber you) until you voted for yourself. The rules state that your vote will only count if the other GM also votes. I'll let Catfish make that call.

You really think it's fair to have both your votes count?

jimbobjarree
11-10-2009, 10:44 AM
dont you think the Brewer-Roy match up has something to do with Roy being the undisputed number one scoring option on his team and go to guy whereas Brewer is 5th option at best on the Jazz, obviously his stats are going to be better than Brewers...duhhh

olrales
11-10-2009, 10:59 AM
If Arenas is sharing the ball and doesn't try to do everything by himself, Heat win...if not, then Knicks will win easily. The X-factor of this serie is the team play of Arenas. It would be the difference between winning and losing.

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 11:59 AM
dont you think the Brewer-Roy match up has something to do with Roy being the undisputed number one scoring option on his team and go to guy whereas Brewer is 5th option at best on the Jazz, obviously his stats are going to be better than Brewers...duhhh

My point is simple. He's saying Brewer would limit Roy, my best player. Roy has NEVER been limitted in a game by Brewer even though they'd had numerous head to head matchups. He shoots 55% from the field and averages about 25ppg. Brewer meanwhile puts up about 10ppg. Brewer can't limit Roy, doesn't make Roy work hard defensively, and this means my best player gets to have a field day. Meanwhile his best player is head to head with Boris Diaw who put up 22ppg on 67% (!) from the field on Bosh last season in 2 Bobcats victories.

I have a clear advantage here.

Voting: 24-24 if you don't count the Heat double voting for themselves.

jimbobjarree
11-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Brewer guards their best player and the series are always split (we both always keep homecourt), Roy cant win at Brewer's homecourt, and the heat have homecourt.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 12:50 PM
I have a 9 man rotation (like most playoff teams do). Skinner and Udoka won't even play. Camby would get the bulk of Center minutes with Lee as the backup. Meaning Lee > Elson. Lee would split PF with Diaw with Craig Smith getting spot minutes. Meaning Diaw/Smith > Maxiell. Diaw would split SF with Butler. Meaning Butler > James Jones. Roy would get the bulk of SG with Butler getting limitted minutes. Meaning Butler = Mo Evans (That's a close call, I'd say I have a slight edge but basically even). Mo Williams would get bulk of PG with Sergio getting limitted minutes. Rafer > Sergio - your only advantage off the bench.

Did I really have to clarify this? It was clear in my write-up.

Of course, all 12 players won't get minutes. JJ and Elson will be getting garbage time. Between Ronnie Brewer, Richard Jefferson and Mo Evans our perimeter is set. And like I said, Bosh can play some at Center. Mind you, both Bosh and Hawes can stretch the floor and hit it from 20+ range. If Camby has to worry about the perimeter, it will open up the lane for our slashers. And if you're putting Diaw in for post defense, it'll only hurt your perimeter D. Rasual is NOT a lockdown....and I'm very familiar with Rasual from his days with the Heat. I don't see anyone on your roster who can contain RJeff or Gilbert.




Yes but their bad games aren't anywhere NEAR as bad as Arenas's bad games. He has games that DESTROY his team 2 out of every 5 games. He consistently puts up these 7 for 22 from the field 4 turnover type games. This is the way he has ALWAYS played. Even when he had 'Twan and Tough Juice to help with the scoring. I hate his game.

Gilbert is a career 43% shooter. That's not terrible, and Mo isn't much better from the field. I mean....let's not leave out the positives. Agent Zero is cerebral, and extremely tough to cover. He's a clutch scorer that can take over games when need be. Although, like I stated, he may not always have to when he's sharing the floor with a beast inside, Bosh. Who do you have to throw at Gilbert on defense?



Basketball reference compares players that were on the court for 25+ minutes together and were playing the same position. They were both playing SG and I'm sure Brewer was getting help. Yet Roy OUTPLAYED HIM SIGNIFICANTLY EVERY TIME! 8-0. That's not luck, that's having someone's number. Also, you don't have the interior D to help since you admit it's your "weakest aspect" in your next paragraph.

That's actually good to know. Roy is definitely a tough cover, but so is Gilbert, so I expect them both to have a big series. But even if Roy has played well against Brewer in the past, having good defenders on a top-notch scorer is a great thing....and we have two of those (Brewer/Evans), meaning that Brandon Roy will always have a scrappy defender guarding him. He'll still get his.....but having bad perimeter defenders would allow him to explode. I'll expect him to do what he does, but it'll be difficult to explode when we have great defenders on him all game long.



You really think it's fair to have both your votes count?

As long as it's not a 1-point differential at the end of the matchup. Let's worry about that when the voting closes. It really doesn't matter now.

BlondeBomber41
11-10-2009, 03:13 PM
Its funny that yall are talking about how he has one more GM so one less vote should count because I tried to say that one year and got ripped into it for that.

I took over as commish for nykway last year and was in a matchup against a team that had two GM's to my one. We ended in a tie but two of his votes were the GM's and only one of my votes was me, so I said I won. Everyone threw a ****ing fit like I had no right to do that and made me restart it... was unreal.

Catfish1314
11-10-2009, 03:32 PM
^That's ****ing ridiculous.

Only one GM vote per team will count because KoB was the Knicks sole GM for the ReDraft. Doing things any other way wouldn't make sense.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 04:18 PM
It simple really, the knicks have 2 defenders in Diaw and Camby. Camby cannot leave the paint and will be relegated to guarding Spencer Hawes. Diaw, according to KoB, will be guarding Bosh for most of the game. That leaves R-Jeff and Gilbert (plus Brewer's slashing ability) to have free-range on the perimeter. We simply have too many scorers for you to handle.

We have Evans, Brewer and Maxiell. Evans can hit the 3 and play solid D on Mo Williams while our best defender (Brewer) is guarding their #1 option (Roy). You can say that Roy always wins the match-ups but he certainly won't explode for on us like he would if we had a weak defender on him. We have Maxiell (good defensive player) who will come in off the bench to bang with Lee and give him a hard time scoring. We have 3 freakishly talented scorers in which you cannot seem to cover at the same time while your only prolific scorer is guarded by our best defender.

And as much as you would like to kid yourself, MO WILLIAMS DOES NOT HAVE THE OFFENSIVE ABILITY TO BE MENTIONED IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS GILBERT. Mo gets his wide open looks in Cleveland because Lebron is drawing double-teams and penetrating the lane. You're not going to kid any voters by trying to say Mo is greater than Gilbert. You have no one to guard him and R-Jeff. Rasual is not a great defender though you try to classify him as such, No one on your perimeter can guard our 1-3. Diaw and Lee can only be in one place at a time. We would score too much for the Knicks to keep up. Even Hawes is a hustle guy with good passing skills. He'd run Camby up and down the court. We'd score 100+ in this match-up

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 04:27 PM
^That's ****ing ridiculous.

Only one GM vote per team will count because KoB was the Knicks sole GM for the ReDraft. Doing things any other way wouldn't make sense.

What would make sense, and the way I remember doing it, would be to have a 3rd poll option for the 2 teams' GMs and assistants. Seemed like a good system....unless something went wrong in the last few redrafts that i don't know about. Then we wouldn't have the problems like what happened to BB41.

sep11ie
11-10-2009, 04:33 PM
Dude, those aren't the real teams!

fins08
11-10-2009, 04:41 PM
A couple things I want to add here

How in the world does David Lee cover our best player? He is awful on defense, and his stats are so high because the Knicks shoot a lot, and he gets rebounds and shoots a lot as well. Bosh's stats would be amazing if he were on the Knicks.

As far as their best player goes, we can stop them. Ronnie Brewer is a great defensive specialist that will hold Roy and his offense down. We can balance that out, especially with Bosh having a huge advantage.

Diaw will have to cover Bosh sometimes, and R Jeff can score a lot on him too. Gilbert Arenas is having a huge year, and with not the greatest team. Hibatchi will get tons of points on Mo Williams. Play all the D you want obn Hawes, fact is, with Bosh, RJ and Arenas, Hawes is not really the go to guy. He struggled against Camby as a top option on the Kings. Now being the 4th/5th option, he'd do better and provide solid minutes at center and he plays good D.

In addition, our bench is so much better. Good benches really help.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 05:25 PM
Our offense is too much for them to handle, and it's distributed nicely throughout the lineup....Bosh in the post, RJeff on the perimeter, Gilbert at the point. On top of that, We don't feel as though their defenders are strong at those positions. Camby, at Center, is a great defender...but our athleticism, youth, and versatility (bigs got range) in the frontcourt may give him a headache.

On top of THAT, our best defenders are on the perimeter, where the Knicks' most dangerous offensive weapons are.

Our only weakness is average/decent post defense, but it's not like they have a big-time threat down there. We have the size to do a decent number on Boris Diaw and David Lee.

And just to reiterate what Gambeezy pointed out. We DO have home court advantage in this series.

KoB can use his strategy to say that Diaw/Lee give him the bench advantage....but it's common knowledge that not all 12 players will touch the court in a playoff series. It makes no sense to compare his starters to our fringe backups, when our starters are versatile enough to play multiple positions just like his. Look at all the players riding the Knicks' pine, and then look at ours. The best bench player in this series is Rafer Alston....the guy who helped fill in for Jameer and help the Magic reach the Finals. He brings something different to the table, and adds experience and versatility to a position where we had a bit of a question mark. It turns out that Gilbert IS playing great ball again, which is scary....because we will always have a starting caliber PG on the floor in this series.

Catfish1314
11-10-2009, 05:29 PM
What would make sense, and the way I remember doing it, would be to have a 3rd poll option for the 2 teams' GMs and assistants. Seemed like a good system....unless something went wrong in the last few redrafts that i don't know about. Then we wouldn't have the problems like what happened to BB41.

A number of problems occurred with that in the last Mock and have always occurred in Mock/ReDrafts to the best of my knowledge. But the extent to which it occurred in the most recent Mock Offseason Playoffs was enough to eliminate that option.

Voters were accidentally clicking on the "GMs click here" options and in close match-ups it was too much of an issue to figure out who they really meant to vote for and all that so we just decided to drop the option and let GMs vote for their own teams.

KoB is the only GM of the Knicks and I know the Heat have 3. Only one GM vote for the Heat will be counted.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 05:38 PM
A number of problems occurred with that in the last Mock and have always occurred in Mock/ReDrafts to the best of my knowledge. But the extent to which it occurred in the most recent Mock Offseason Playoffs was enough to eliminate that option.

Voters were accidentally clicking on the "GMs click here" options and in close match-ups it was too much of an issue to figure out who they really meant to vote for and all that so we just decided to drop the option and let GMs vote for their own teams.

KoB is the only GM of the Knicks and I know the Heat have 3. Only one GM vote for the Heat will be counted.

ahh ok. I didn't know that.

Oh, and Fins08 has not voted...I told him not to, because of the issues/confusion. It was just me and Gambeezy, so subtract 1 point from us.

J$mo0th_3o5
11-10-2009, 05:52 PM
The Knicks bench is terrible!

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 05:54 PM
We simply have too many scorers for you to handle.



Our offense is too much for them to handle.

So we're running with the "offense wins championships" motto. That's usually works (when you have Magic Johnson running the show). Whose creating all these bunny shots? You have Jose Calderon helping Bosh right? You have Jason Kidd helping Jefferson? You don't even have Deron Williams to help Brewer. Oh no wait you have a shoot-first PG who is going to go 10-21 in a win, 9-22 in a loss, 9-13 in a big win, 7-18 in a loss, 9-27 in a loss, 5-10 in a loss, 7-22 in a LOSS! There's your 7 game series. You lost 5-2. Where's I get those numbers from? His 7 games this season. OH HE'S BACK!?! Yes he's back to losing his team games with his chucking! You don't have ANYONE to create. A bunch of 1 on 1 LOW PERCENTAGE shooters trying to drive past good perimeter defenders like roy/butler/diaw into the paint where former DPOY Marcus Camby sits waiting to protect the basket.

KNICKS!

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 05:58 PM
The Knicks bench is terrible!

There's this thing called a writeup that goes on the first page. You should check it out sometime. :)

David Lee, Craig Smith, Boris Diaw, Rasual Butler, Sergio Rodriguez is worse than Elson, Maxiell, Jones, Evans, Alston? Really?

I could handle losing if the person was saying they thought Arenas was a good player in spite of his off games and his game would mesh well with Bosh but these types of posts drive me crazy.

Sidenote: Even if we go based on offensive firepower

Mo goes off because Arenas can't play D
Roy owns Brewer
Butler would be fine vs. RJ
Diaw owns Bosh
Lee is good for 15
Camby owns Hawes.

Where are you stopping me?

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 06:05 PM
So we're running with the "offense wins championships" motto. That's usually works (when you have Magic Johnson running the show). Whose creating all these bunny shots? You have Jose Calderon helping Bosh right? You have Jason Kidd helping Jefferson? You don't even have Deron Williams to help Brewer. Oh no wait you have a shoot-first PG who is going to go 10-21 in a win, 9-22 in a loss, 9-13 in a big win, 7-18 in a loss, 9-27 in a loss, 5-10 in a loss, 7-22 in a LOSS! There's your 7 game series. You lost 5-2. Where's I get those numbers from? His 7 games this season. OH HE'S BACK!?! Yes he's back to losing his team games with his chucking! You don't have ANYONE to create. A bunch of 1 on 1 LOW PERCENTAGE shooters trying to drive past good perimeter defenders like roy/butler/diaw into the paint where former DPOY Marcus Camby sits waiting to protect the basket.

KNICKS!
My team is a TEAM and we're

Rafer Alston is the distributor to compliment Gilbert's scoring mentality. Gilbert and his team are losing because Oberto is starting at PF and playing like crap, Caron Butler had a slow start, and Jamison/Miller are out with injury. They WILL bounce back. Gilbert is an underrated passer, He usually gets about 5-6 assists a game, but how can you not expect that number to rise when he's playing with RJeff and Bosh? It's funny that you're reaching into the start of the season as your primary ammo to bash Gilbert...

The season just started!

Roy scored 2 points the other night. Camby isn't playing as well as he should and the Clippers still suck. David Lee, I'm sure, is having a ball grabbing those boards in the NYC. How many games have they won?

The point is that this is not the current Washington Wizards....this is a different team, and one that was voted 1st seed for a reason....because it's that damn good.

BTW, I guess Mo williams is on par with JKidd & Calderon when it comes to distrbution huh? B-Roy gets a nice amount of assists. I'm starting to think he's one of your only bright spots in this series.

And if Camby is sitting in the paint "waiting" for the slashers.....how will he guard the jump-shooting Hawes and Bosh? Actually....Bosh is nearly unguardable w/ his versatility.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 06:08 PM
There's this thing called a writeup that goes on the first page. You should check it out sometime. :)

David Lee, Craig Smith, Boris Diaw, Rasual Butler, Sergio Rodriguez is worse than Elson, Maxiell, Jones, Evans, Alston? Really?

I could handle losing if the person was saying they thought Arenas was a good player in spite of his off games and his game would mesh well with Bosh but these types of posts drive me crazy.

Sidenote: Even if we go based on offensive firepower

Mo goes off because Arenas can't play D
Roy owns Brewer
Butler would be fine vs. RJ
Diaw owns Bosh
Lee is good for 15
Camby owns Hawes.

Where are you stopping me?

oh snap! its a 1v1 tourney! jk

-Mo can't D-up either....and Gilbert is VASTLY superior on offense.
-Roy is going to have to fight for his 25....with Brewer OR Evans on him the whole game.
-Butler would be fine huh? Rjeff is solid on D, and unlike Butler, can do more than just shoot 3s. I don't think it's even a question who has the advantage here.
-Diaw played well against Bosh in 2 games last year. thats a wrap! Bosh is mentioned as a top 4 PF for a reason. Have fun, Diaw.
-Camby is going to have his hands full as the only great defender on your team. He can't be two places at once. And tall, jump shooters like Hawes and Bosh are TOUGH to cover.

Honestly, Roy and Camby are your only advantages....and I stand by my statement that our offense will overwhelm you in this series.

and i can't believe we still have to go over this....if you're including Diaw/Lee in your "bench"....than add Brewer (2&3) and Bosh (4&5) to the other side before you start comparing.

PhillyLuver
11-10-2009, 06:18 PM
Straight up tie aww ish its about to go down

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 06:19 PM
Straight up tie aww ish its about to go down

well he's up 1. we have 2 Gms that voted to his 1.

Still this is extremely close....I love a good Heat/Knicks rivalry. :D

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Rafer Alston is the distributor to compliment Gilbert's scoring mentality. Gilbert and his team are losing because Oberto is starting at PF and playing like crap, Caron Butler had a slow start, and Jamison/Miller are out with injury. They WILL bounce back. Gilbert is an underrated passer, He usually gets about 5-6 assists a game, but how can you not expect that number to rise when he's playing with RJeff and Bosh? It's funny that you're reaching into the start of the season as your primary ammo to bash Gilbert...

The season just started!

Roy scored 2 points the other night. Camby isn't playing as well as he should and the Clippers still suck. David Lee, I'm sure, is having a ball grabbing those boards in the NYC. How many games have they won?

The point is that this is not the current Washington Wizards....this is a different team, and one that was voted 1st seed for a reason....because it's that damn good.

BTW, I guess Mo williams is on par with JKidd & Calderon when it comes to distrbution huh? B-Roy gets a nice amount of assists. I'm starting to think he's one of your only bright spots in this series.

And if Camby is sitting in the paint "waiting" for the slashers.....how will he guard the jump-shooting Hawes and Bosh? Actually....Bosh is nearly unguardable w/ his versatility.

OF COURSE I CAN USE HIS SEASON SO FAR. IT'S EXACTLY LIKE HIS WHOLE CAREER.

Career - 7.3 for 17.2 (42.7%fg) for 22.8 ppg
2006 (Last Healthy Season) - 8.7 for 20.9 (41.8%fg) for 28.5 ppg
2009 (7 games this season) - 8.0 for 19.0 (42.1%fg) for 24.4 ppg

He's always gonna be the same chucker he's always been. You really believe you can win a playoff series vs. me with him missing 11 shots per game? Considering he'd have 2-3 *hot* shooting nights, it'd be more like 13, 14, or 15 misses in the off-nights. That's brutal for you.

Then you wanna bring up Roy's 2 point game? You know only took 6 shots in 25 minutes and they won right? And he had 7 assists...only 1 turnover (not 3-4 like Arenas would have)...and a steal. How embarassing! Was he being guarded by Ronnie Brewer that game? OF COURSE NOT BECAUSE BREWER HAS NEVER STOPPED HIM! ARENT YOU PAYING ATTENTION??

I love that on page 1 I point out that Camby ***** on Hawes chest everytime and now you're trying to throw that out as a deadly weapon. All my guys seem to outplay yours and yet you just blatantly ignore it and make the same tired argument that anyone else would make.


oh snap! its a 1v1 tourney!

-Mo can't D-up either....and Gilbert is VASTLY superior on offense.
-Roy is going to have to fight for his 25....with Brewer OR Evans on him the whole game.
-Butler would be fine huh? Rjeff is solid on D, and unlike Butler, can do more than just shoot 3s.
-Diaw played well against Bosh in 2 games last year. thats a wrap! Bosh is mentioned as a top 4 PF for a reason. Have fun, Diaw.
-Camby is going to have his hands full as the only great defender on your team. He can't be two places at once. And tall, jump shooters like Hawes and Bosh are TOUGH to cover.

I'm just sayin offensively you can't stop me either. And that's a fact.

Kakaroach
11-10-2009, 06:29 PM
Yea you're right. It did take a lot of hardwork to build a contender like ours, especially since we didn't make one trade.

Your out of line by even insinuating that I was lazy though. I have a full-time job and go to college full-time. I get on PSD to have fun and talk sports. If you check the draft board, we never took more than 10 minutes to make a pick throughout all 12 rounds of the draft. We were always on top of everything. Catfish sent us a PM when our 1st write-up was due. Why would we have any reason to believe that he wasn't going to do the same for the 2nd round match-up? It's too late to change anything now so I don't want to dwell on it, but it really did bum us out to see the match-up posted without a write-up. Think about it man, that was 2+ months of hardwork and draft strategizing. Your just justifying my point. You guys have 3 ****ing GMs'. Active ones. And you're trying to tell me that not one of you had the time to check out the re-draft forum? Not one of the 3 couldn't take one damn minute to check out a thread? Being that busy but still having the time for PSD is complete bull**** and you know it. And yes, it is being lazy. Which is just a shame because you guys did put in a lot of hard work and have a great team. And then telling CatFish he shouldn't run one of this again is just pitiful. :pity:

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 06:40 PM
OF COURSE I CAN USE HIS SEASON SO FAR. IT'S EXACTLY LIKE HIS WHOLE CAREER.

Career - 7.3 for 17.2 (42.7%fg) for 22.8 ppg
2006 (Last Healthy Season) - 8.7 for 20.9 (41.8%fg) for 28.5 ppg
2009 (7 games this season) - 8.0 for 19.0 (42.1%fg) for 24.4 ppg

He's always gonna be the same chucker he's always been. You really believe you can win a playoff series vs. me with him missing 11 shots per game? Considering he'd have 2-3 *hot* shooting nights, it'd be more like 13, 14, or 15 misses in the off-nights. That's brutal for you.

Then you wanna bring up Roy's 2 point game? You know only took 6 shots in 25 minutes and they won right? And he had 7 assists...only 1 turnover (not 3-4 like Arenas would have)...and a steal. How embarassing! Was he being guarded by Ronnie Brewer that game? OF COURSE NOT BECAUSE BREWER HAS NEVER STOPPED HIM! ARENT YOU PAYING ATTENTION??

I love that on page 1 I point out that Camby ***** on Hawes chest everytime and now you're trying to throw that out as a deadly weapon. All my guys seem to outplay yours and yet you just blatantly ignore it and make the same tired argument that anyone else would make.



I'm just sayin offensively you can't stop me either. And that's a fact.

I'm saying that your arguments are flawed.

Gilbert shooting 43% is gonna implode my team! How can we succeed? Because for the 1st time in Gilbert's career, he's playing on a legitimate contender with another bonafide superstar to help carry the load.

You have proven that Brandon Roy is hard to guard, and historically, has outplayed Ronnie Brewer. But I'm saying that our advantages over you outweighs that elsewhere in the lineup. It'll be interesting to see how he fairs against Evans as well.

You're overselling the crap out of Rasual Butler.

There's no doubt that individually Camby>Hawes. I explained why I think our system will be effective against him though.

Yo don't have anyone to throw at Gilbert, Rjeff or Bosh defensively! 2 solid games from Diaw isn't a strong argument. And if you think Brandon Roy will still be able to drop career numbers on Brewer/Evans....I expect Bosh to have a field day on Diaw/Lee.

Blazer (roy)-Jazz (brewer) games and Bobcat (diaw)-Raptor (bosh) games are only painting half of the picture. My team has an entirely different make-up, and top to bottom, has more advantages.

Just to re-iterate...I have sort of conceded to your argument for Brandon Roy having a good series...but you don't have much else going for you compared to our advantages.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 06:53 PM
Your just justifying my point. You guys have 3 ****ing GMs'. Active ones. And you're trying to tell me that not one of you had the time to check out the re-draft forum? Not one of the 3 couldn't take one damn minute to check out a thread? Being that busy but still having the time for PSD is complete bull**** and you know it. And yes, it is being lazy. Which is just a shame because you guys did put in a lot of hard work and have a great team. And then telling CatFish he shouldn't run one of this again is just pitiful. :pity:

Clearly is was a matter of mis-communication, and it's in the past now. Next time (if there is one), we will make sure to send in the write-up on time....whether we have to check the matchup thread, or C-fish sends us a message. Understandably, we were expecting the same in round 2 as we received in round 1. Let's just move on and focus on the Heat/Knicks matchup.

roshan3ai
11-10-2009, 07:11 PM
an hour and a half left for voting, and the knicks up by one vote. this will be a nail biter

RocketsRule
11-10-2009, 07:26 PM
When with the Heat here. I like the Heat's bench too much... plus they have HCA

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 07:27 PM
When with the Heat here. I like the Heat's bench too much... plus they have HCA

valid points. thank you for noticing.

thesparky33
11-10-2009, 07:44 PM
This is tough. Both teams' GMs did a great job, so congrats to you guys.

I went with the Knicks. It wasnt easy. Just at the end of the day, I can actually visualize the Knicks squad and how they would work together, and I have a hard time seeing that with the Heat, or at least not as easily. A Mo Williams and Roy backcourt would be very fluid, as Mo can easily sit back and hit open set jumpers while Roy brings it up the court in crunch time, or you could switch it the other way around. All the while you have a good defender and a do-it-all SF with Diaw, and then again, a frontcourt of Lee and Camby that compliments each other with great effect. Lee can bang down low, while Camby has that pretty mid-range shot.

All the while, I'm not sure how Arenas is health-wise and effectiveness-wise. He's played good so far this season, but its only been 8 or so games, so I can't judge it all on that... and his FG% has been horrific as always. Not sure how Bosh and Hawes work together since they both rely heavily in a mid range game, but at the same time, Bosh would have some really nice scoring numbers against Lee (but I'd have to assume that Camby would be primarily his defender).

Again, I can see arguments for both teams, but its easier for me to visualize the Knicks more as a fluid team than the Heat, so that's the deciding factor for me.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 07:57 PM
This is tough. Both teams' GMs did a great job, so congrats to you guys.

I went with the Knicks. It wasnt easy. Just at the end of the day, I can actually visualize the Knicks squad and how they would work together, and I have a hard time seeing that with the Heat, or at least not as easily. A Mo Williams and Roy backcourt would be very fluid, as Mo can easily sit back and hit open set jumpers while Roy brings it up the court in crunch time, or you could switch it the other way around. All the while you have a good defender and a do-it-all SF with Diaw, and then again, a frontcourt of Lee and Camby that compliments each other with great effect. Lee can bang down low, while Camby has that pretty mid-range shot.

All the while, I'm not sure how Arenas is health-wise and effectiveness-wise. He's played good so far this season, but its only been 8 or so games, so I can't judge it all on that... and his FG% has been horrific as always. Not sure how Bosh and Hawes work together since they both rely heavily in a mid range game, but at the same time, Bosh would have some really nice scoring numbers against Lee (but I'd have to assume that Camby would be primarily his defender).

Again, I can see arguments for both teams, but its easier for me to visualize the Knicks more as a fluid team than the Heat, so that's the deciding factor for me.


Sparky, I respect your opinion. I'd like to respond to your reservations though. First, Mo won't be able to just sit back and hit open jumpers while Roy drives it down the lane in crunch time. Our 2 best defenders in Mo Evans and Brewer will be guarding them both for large portions of the game, while Hawes is no slouch on defense in the paint either.

You mentioned concerns about Arenas' health and the overall functionality of our team, we answered that question mark by drafting a starting caliber point guard in Rafer Alston as our 6th man. This gives us extreme versatility to run with numerous line-ups. We could slide Arenas' to the 2 spot and keep R-Jeff at the 3 and have an extremely powerful offensive line-up. He can't guard that line-up.

The facts remain Gilbert Arenas and Chris Bosh are Superstars who can score in a multitude of ways and positionally he has no one on his team that will keep them from doing what they do best.

LayZbone
11-10-2009, 08:03 PM
The Knicks argument states that they win the defensive battle in the paint. We obviously win the perimeter defensive battle with Evans/Brewer which is where the bulk of his offense comes from. Most of our offense will not even come from the paint. Bosh can hit the bucket from anywhere on the court including the paint, while Hawes can stretch the floor with his jump shooting. That's not even taking into consideration what Arenas, R-jeff, Evans and Alston can accomplish from mid-range and beyond.

The bulk of KOB's argument comes from past match-ups with these NBA players and their current teams and the outcome of those games. We feel that this isn't a strong argument at all because the composition of our team has way more versatility than any team that any of our players play on currently.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 08:27 PM
Well, This is down to the buzzer

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 08:37 PM
home stretch

Confusion
11-10-2009, 08:38 PM
Heat with Bosh and Arenas!

Kakaroach
11-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Heat win by 1 vote. Wow. Congratz to both teams, you both did a great job.

BlondeBomber41
11-10-2009, 09:18 PM
No, its tied. Heat had two GM's while the Knicks only had one.

Kakaroach
11-10-2009, 09:22 PM
No, its tied. Heat had two GM's while the Knicks only had one. Ahhhh so what happens now?

UPost2Much
11-10-2009, 09:23 PM
Sick!

Only fair thing is Heat & Knicks get to combine rosters... watch out for that squad!

UPost2Much
11-10-2009, 09:31 PM
No, its tied. Heat had two GM's while the Knicks only had one.

^^ Beastly ReDraft team... if you have any bench at all, that's a wrap.

Catfish1314
11-10-2009, 11:23 PM
Wow, tied 41-41.

Gambeezy
11-10-2009, 11:25 PM
Are you going to re-post the match-up and start over again Catfish? What are you thinking?

KnicksorBust
11-10-2009, 11:34 PM
I'd love it. I hope people saw Arenas's game tonight. Another classic gem.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009111014

7-20 from the field, 12 turnovers. STOP CALLING HIM A SUPERSTAR. RE-OPEN THIS! KNICKS OVER HEAT!

Catfish1314
11-10-2009, 11:34 PM
Pretty much but in a sudden death fashion. The poll would only be left open for a few hours (or less) instead of 24. That's what's always been done.

Gambeezy
11-11-2009, 12:02 AM
I'd love it. I hope people saw Arenas's game tonight. Another classic gem.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2009111014

7-20 from the field, 12 turnovers. STOP CALLING HIM A SUPERSTAR. RE-OPEN THIS! KNICKS OVER HEAT!


And as I said before, ROY had 2 points the other night and he's your #1 option. We have another legit #1 option in Bosh as well as an excellent #3 option in R-Jeff who averaged just under 20ppg last year. Everyone has their bad nights here and there. Arenas and Roy are no exception. Arenas was without Jamison, Foye, and Miller (3 key rotation players) while Caron underwhelmed. On our team Gilbert wouldn't have to take on that big of a role to be the sole force of the team.

The fact is, if Roy has a bad night for your Knicks, you guys are screwed badly. Mo is proving in Cleveland that, as a #2 option, he can't win a Championship with LEBRON so stop trying to pass him off as some prolific Superstar PG. Mo wishes he had Gilbert's offensive ability. Arenas is top 10 in scoring for this season so far. It still doesn't negate the fact that your team doesn't have the star power to compete with us. One off-night from Gilbert won't lose us a 7 game play-off series, especially when WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE.

UPost2Much
11-11-2009, 12:08 AM
And as I said before, ROY had 2 points the other night and he's your #1 option. We have another legit #1 option in Bosh as well as a excellent #3 option in R-Jeff who averaged just under 20ppg last year. Everyone has their bad nights here and there. Arenas and Roy are no exception. Arenas was without Jamison and Foye while Caron underwhelmed. On our team Gilbert wouldn't have to take on that big of a role to be the sole force of the team.

The fact is, if Roy has a bad night for your Knicks, you guys are screwed badly. Mo is proving in Cleveland that, as a #2 option, he can't win a Championship with LEBRON so stop trying to pass him off as some prolific Superstar PG. Mo wishes he had Gilbert's offensive ability. Arenas is top 10 in scoring for this season so far. It still doesn't negate the fact that your team doesn't have the star power to compete with us. One off-night from Gilbert won't lose us a 7 game play-off series, especially when WE HAVE HOME-COURT ADVANTAGE.

I think his point was that Arenas has shown on many occasions that he has the ability to CRIPPLE his team's chances of winning. His style of play is completely hit or miss. He's an exciting player to watch when he's on, but he's the definition of atrocious when he's off. And he's off FAR MORE OFTEN than any other top tier player... which sort of makes him not a top tier player...

I enjoy watching Arenas play, but I also enjoy the fact that he isn't on my team.