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Basel
11-08-2009, 07:55 PM
Larry Bird isn't a fan of all the camaraderie in the NBA today.

"I don't believe in it," Bird told the New York Daily News of the camaraderie now seen in the NBA.

"I think there's a little too much of it going on. I had a different mindset when I played. I always wanted to keep an edge. I always wanted to have the upper edge. That's how I approached it, even when I coached. I could never have a close relationship with my opponents. I thought if I did I'd lose my edge."

Bird has a new book out, "When the Game Was Ours," with Magic Johnson, his primary rival.

LeBron James was fined $25,000 for not shaking hands with the Magic when the Cavaliers lost in the Eastern Conference Finals last season. Bird disagreed with the fine.

"I didn't shake hands when we lost to the Lakers," he recalled. "I never shook hands. When the Lakers and Celtics played, we didn't shake hands. When I first got to play against Magic, there was a hate factor there. It was more than just dislike."





I agree with him. I dont want to see too much smiles and jokes from players on the court. Lets keep that to a minimum.

Paulliwali
11-08-2009, 08:08 PM
i think so too, it is a competition

asandhu23
11-08-2009, 08:18 PM
I agree.

Litchris12
11-08-2009, 08:31 PM
i agree also

PBG
11-08-2009, 08:47 PM
stern has turned the nba into a league of pansies.

JasonJohnHorn
11-08-2009, 08:58 PM
No reason two guys can't go head to head and have a beer after. I play ball against my friends all the time, and I play to win, but whatever happens on the court stays on the court. Jordan was close friends with several players and had not problem wheeling off 6 titles (twice as many as Bird). That said, I don't think there is a single right answer here. I think some people can handle it, and for them its natural. Others carry a loss with them for days and can't just go out for a beer after a tough loss. It depends on the person, but with all the trades that go on, and the American basketball team, and all-star games, the NBA is a family. Some people don't get a long, but some have a great deal of love for each other and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to be a friend with a guy on another team just because of a trade or something.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-08-2009, 09:00 PM
Next thing you know, the Cavs are going to get fined $1,000,000 for not playing him enough for camera time.

knickerbockerny
11-08-2009, 09:03 PM
I agree with him, lets face it basketball is a competitive sport.

SA5195
11-08-2009, 09:13 PM
Agreed, when Lebron was fined, he said something like

"its like getting beat down by a bully, when a bully beats you up, you don't shake his hand"

It's a sport, a competitive one, you can be best friends off the court, but when you're on the court its business.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2009, 09:15 PM
the league isnt the same anymore. The bad boys, and Riley's Knicks and Heat, along with the salaries becoming ridiculous, and all these kids with tatoos everywhere, and getting in trouble, has made image an issue. Then you throw on the no hand check rule, flagrant 1/2, etc. The NBA is a girl's league compared to what it once was. Which everyone needs to remember when comparing players from that era. Bird, or MJ, would have lit up today's league if they could not be touched. Remember that when ranking LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Howard, etc, along with those guys.

tr4shb0t
11-08-2009, 09:21 PM
Outside of the game I think it is fine. Be classy before and after the game and off the court. Be competitive and serious on the court

MTar786
11-08-2009, 09:51 PM
the league isnt the same anymore. The bad boys, and Riley's Knicks and Heat, along with the salaries becoming ridiculous, and all these kids with tatoos everywhere, and getting in trouble, has made image an issue. Then you throw on the no hand check rule, flagrant 1/2, etc. The NBA is a girl's league compared to what it once was. Which everyone needs to remember when comparing players from that era. Bird, or MJ, would have lit up today's league if they could not be touched. Remember that when ranking LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Howard, etc, along with those guys.

and YOU remember that when they played.. defences werent allowed to use zone defense. so ya, remember that when ranking jordan, and bird along with those guys

bagwell368
11-08-2009, 10:00 PM
I hated all the guys I played against, my sons have no use for any of their foes either. I never liked to play against friends, because it was win first, no matter the cost, and I didn't like all the *****ing afterwards. "Take it easy man, its just a game" - FRICK you it is!

Bird like me wanted to vomit when when that smiling cretin and Magic did the kiss thing before the Finals - in what 1989? Politically correct mamby pambies. Another reason I love KG, the guy is in civvies and he's still cussing, and grabing himself.

^^ Bird never got the star treatment BTW. Jordan got half his points off of bogus no travel calls. Karl Malone was allowed to kill guys with his elbows and got calls against his defenders for tickey tack nonsense.

bagwell368
11-08-2009, 10:05 PM
Outside of the game I think it is fine. Be classy before and after the game and off the court. Be competitive and serious on the court

That's nice.

I'm with Leo Durocher - "nice guys finish last"

Wilson
11-08-2009, 10:26 PM
No reason two guys can't go head to head and have a beer after. I play ball against my friends all the time, and I play to win, but whatever happens on the court stays on the court. Jordan was close friends with several players and had not problem wheeling off 6 titles (twice as many as Bird). That said, I don't think there is a single right answer here. I think some people can handle it, and for them its natural. Others carry a loss with them for days and can't just go out for a beer after a tough loss. It depends on the person, but with all the trades that go on, and the American basketball team, and all-star games, the NBA is a family. Some people don't get a long, but some have a great deal of love for each other and there is no reason you shouldn't be able to be a friend with a guy on another team just because of a trade or something.

Agreed. There is some of that in the league still. Kobe Bryant and Ron Artest really went at each other last season despite being friendly off the court, and now they're team-mates. Kobe and Carmelo Anthony have gone at it a few times as well despite being close off the court.

_KB24_
11-08-2009, 10:37 PM
I don't see anything wrong with players shaking each others hands and sharing a laugh or too before games. I think it was pretty stupid why Magic and Bird hated each other and Magic and Isiah still feud with each other. Theres no point IMO. Kobe and Lebron are always smiling before games and looks like their best buddies, on the court, looks like their going to kill each other.

Don't agree.

Chronz
11-08-2009, 10:37 PM
and YOU remember that when they played.. defences werent allowed to use zone defense. so ya, remember that when ranking jordan, and bird along with those guys

How old are you?

Mr. Fluffi
11-08-2009, 10:52 PM
I don't agree. It's just Basketball no need to make a war out of it :eyebrow:

SA5195
11-08-2009, 10:59 PM
Agreed. There is some of that in the league still. Kobe Bryant and Ron Artest really went at each other last season despite being friendly off the court, and now they're team-mates. Kobe and Carmelo Anthony have gone at it a few times as well despite being close off the court.

Exactly, off the court Kobe was talking about how him and melo were close when they were in the olympics. And in the court they went at each other a few times.

_KB24_
11-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Another example: Bosh and Dwight. From what I have seen, there real close off the court. Last game, they didn't hold back from jawing at each other. Basketball should be just a game. No need to carry hard feelings off the court.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2009, 11:17 PM
and YOU remember that when they played.. defences werent allowed to use zone defense. so ya, remember that when ranking jordan, and bird along with those guys

pure zones are still not allowed, in the least bit. Are you kidding me? That is your comeback? I am not saying Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc, wouldn't still be great in the old rules, we just don't know. For instance, Kobe hates contact. It may have effected him. He may have gotten past it. Who knows. LeBron lives off contact. However, he may not have been able to deal with the constant hand checks, because he wouldn't be able to get any momentum.
I mean it not as a criticism, but simply as a point of reference. Its a girls league now. If you clothesline a guy now, you get suspended, fined, and marked by the refs. Back in the day, it was 2 free throws to the victim, move on ladies.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2009, 11:19 PM
How old are you?

I don't mean this in a bad way, but my god its amazing how young some of the PSD posters are. Many have no idea of basketball before 1998.

Raps18-19 Champ
11-08-2009, 11:22 PM
I don't mean this in a bad way, but my god its amazing how young some of the PSD posters are. Many have no idea of basketball before 1998.

MJ sucked.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2009, 11:26 PM
MJ sucked.

haha, lame!

TheKing23
11-08-2009, 11:28 PM
MJ sucked.

Who's MJ?

swagga81
11-08-2009, 11:41 PM
Who's MJ? Magic Johnson? i think if not probably Michael Jordan

TheKing23
11-08-2009, 11:45 PM
Magic Johnson? i think if not probably Michael Jordan

Ooohhhhh, I thought they were talking about the real GOAT... Mike James

swagga81
11-08-2009, 11:55 PM
haha nice

Hellcrooner
11-09-2009, 12:31 AM
funny thing is in europe the land of "Soft" players rivalries are TERRIBLE and AGRESIVE with real hatred betwen the players.

Lakersfan2483
11-09-2009, 12:55 AM
pure zones are still not allowed, in the least bit. Are you kidding me? That is your comeback? I am not saying Kobe, LeBron, Wade, etc, wouldn't still be great in the old rules, we just don't know. For instance, Kobe hates contact. It may have effected him. He may have gotten past it. Who knows. LeBron lives off contact. However, he may not have been able to deal with the constant hand checks, because he wouldn't be able to get any momentum.
I mean it not as a criticism, but simply as a point of reference. Its a girls league now. If you clothesline a guy now, you get suspended, fined, and marked by the refs. Back in the day, it was 2 free throws to the victim, move on ladies.

Great players like Kobe, Lebron and Wade would be great in any era of basketball. I don't see the old rules affecting their games at all. They would still be just as impactful as they are now.

Jahari Kavi
11-09-2009, 01:07 AM
i agree with bird and this is exactly why i didn't see the big deal about bron not shaking hands............to be honest no one wants to shake hands after a tough defeat in the post season........"doing it just to do it" doesn't make anyone a bigger sport or anything, because deep down you're pissed off......sorta like giving someone a "good game" before the opening tip.......to hell with that, I hope you SUCK tonight........

shep33
11-09-2009, 01:25 AM
For sure... there's no such thing as rivalries anymore. No more Knicks vs. Bulls, LA vs Sacramento, Bulls vs. Pistons, etc. Do you guys remember when Sheed was joking around in the playoffs with KG a couple years back. Like what is that? It's the playoffs, i remember Oakley use to get in Pips face, and Starks would get in MJ's face like no one I ever seen. There's still respect there, but they disliked each other nonetheless, which made them try harder. I thought the Lakers vs Rockets last year wasn't bad, just b/c people got into it a bit. Scola, Fish, Odom. But yeah.. the good ol days are gone. NBA in the 90s was unbeatable. Tough players, with tough teams that truly disliked their main rivals.

LA_Raiders
11-09-2009, 01:56 AM
Agree...I hate the love from LeBroom, Melo & DW

Teeboy1487
11-09-2009, 02:03 AM
I thought Lebron was fined for not talking to the media? Nevertheless, I agree with Bird. You should not have to shake hands with the opponent if you don't want to. It's shows competitiveness to me. I did not fault James for what he did.

Raph12
11-09-2009, 03:07 AM
Just what we need, a HOFer promoting hate on the ball court...

I don't think it makes a big difference how they act off the court or before/after the game, as long as they play like enemies that's all that really matters.

1-800-STFU
11-09-2009, 03:14 AM
If players like one another I don't see the big deal, its a game lighten up :shrug:

stawka
11-09-2009, 03:27 AM
After the ECF everyone was saying "LeBron is *****, he has been babied his whole life, I hate LeBron", now all of a sudden what Bird is saying is right? Make up your mind people!

Either way, basketball is a competitive sport. When I play and lose, don't expect me to shake the opponents hand (not because I hate them, I just want to win)... and I don't expect them to shake my hand if they take basketball seriously.

Winning is everything, there's a difference between sooking and whining (Sheed), and being competitive to the point where you won't shake someone's hand after a loss.

abe_froman
11-09-2009, 03:39 AM
i agree,what happened to hating each other

loveofthegame87
11-09-2009, 06:24 AM
Lebron was fined for not talking to the media after the game; not for the hand shaking situation. I agree with Bird there's too much smiling and laughing going on. I love those days when players would knock each other down and not help the other player up. Bill Russell said that Wilt use to stay and eat dinner with his family but when the game started they would be close the fighting every game they played. It sicken me to see Lebron laughing, slapping knick players on the butt, and hi-fiving people in the crowd and the knicks did nothing about it.With that being said some form of seriousness and not laughing came make you more focus with the task at hand. Some people don't have that distinction between the game and friendship like a relationship with a boss and his worker.

tr4shb0t
11-09-2009, 06:42 AM
I think a lot of this "joking" is actually part of many players' game. Before the game they may joke around with the person they will be matched up against, leaving that person to think they don't take the game too seriously. Then bam, they go all out. This can give them the edge in the game.

stawka
11-09-2009, 06:43 AM
So it sickens you guys when LeBron smiles and taps players on the butt, but it also sickens you when LeBron doesn't shake his opponents hand after a loss?

By you, I don't mean YOU personally - but the general PSD user who bashes opposing superstars for everything they do.

magichatnumber9
11-09-2009, 07:42 AM
stern has turned the nba into a league of pansies.

Spot on

Lil Rhody
11-09-2009, 07:46 AM
ahhhh Larry Legend.... I hear what you are saying

Mr.ATLHawks
11-09-2009, 10:15 AM
I think this is a direct result in organizations treating these pl;ayers like crap. The NBA, just like all of professional sports, has become all about the almighty $. The owners dont care and I think this is why you see all the buddy buddy crap. They cant confide in their organizations so they confide in other players..

MackSnackWrap
11-09-2009, 10:54 AM
Agreed

ny212
11-09-2009, 11:16 AM
BREAKING NEWS

Lebron James is fined 1,000,000 for not answering David Stern's phone call.

RaiderLakersA's
11-09-2009, 11:25 AM
Agreed, when Lebron was fined, he said something like

"its like getting beat down by a bully, when a bully beats you up, you don't shake his hand"

It's a sport, a competitive one, you can be best friends off the court, but when you're on the court its business.

Can't compare the LeBron non-shake and the Bird non-shake. After the game or at some point during the offseason, LeBron likely would have hung out with Dwight Howard. But Bird and Magic? No chance. It was a different age then.

Frankly, I don't care what the players feel for each other, as long as sportsmanship is upheld. The least that these $100mm contract players can be is civil when the clock reads 00:00:00.

Hustla23
11-09-2009, 01:26 PM
I don't understand this glorification of sports that turns it into some kind of bootleg "war" between people.

I read a report that said two Cubs fans beat a White Sox fan to the point where the dude became blind in one eye :facepalm:

It is just ridiculous.

It's a ****ing game man.

Hating someone because they happen to compete with you in a game that's played by children is as ludicrous as it gets.

I, as a fan, want to see my players give it their all. 100%. Spill out their guts on the floor trying to secure the win.

But it is stupid for me to want them to hate another human being for some stupid reason such as this.

I wonder what kind of message Bird is sending ?

I guess he doesn't want kids to think that people play sports as an act of teamwork and camaraderie, but rather it's something that should cause divisions and hate between people ?

Ludicrous

Hawkeye15
11-09-2009, 01:49 PM
Great players like Kobe, Lebron and Wade would be great in any era of basketball. I don't see the old rules affecting their games at all. They would still be just as impactful as they are now.

I tend to agree, but we don't know. Kobe despises contact. Would he learn to live with it 20 years ago? Probably. But who knows. LeBron loves contact, but he also has the freedom to gain momentum, something he wouldn't have had back in the day. But it is obvious the other way, that if the strict rules today were in effect 20 years ago, those players would have been even better.

azkarraga
11-09-2009, 02:16 PM
Don't know if what's today is camaraderie or just plain hypocresy

azkarraga
11-09-2009, 02:19 PM
I don't understand this glorification of sports that turns it into some kind of bootleg "war" between people.

I read a report that said two Cubs fans beat a White Sox fan to the point where the dude became blind in one eye :facepalm:

It is just ridiculous.

It's a ****ing game man.

Hating someone because they happen to compete with you in a game that's played by children is as ludicrous as it gets.

I, as a fan, want to see my players give it their all. 100%. Spill out their guts on the floor trying to secure the win.

But it is stupid for me to want them to hate another human being for some stupid reason such as this.

I wonder what kind of message Bird is sending ?

I guess he doesn't want kids to think that people play sports as an act of teamwork and camaraderie, but rather it's something that should cause divisions and hate between people ?

Ludicrous

I agree with you. Hating is just nonsense. But ain't happy with today's hypocresy either.

RaiderLakersA's
11-09-2009, 03:30 PM
Kobe despises contact.

This is not an accurate assessment of Kobe's take on physicality in basketball. Go back to some of the more physical games and he'll tell you exactly how he felt about the banging in the press conferences. He thrives on it!

Hawkeye15
11-09-2009, 03:38 PM
This is not an accurate assessment of Kobe's take on physicality in basketball. Go back to some of the more physical games and he'll tell you exactly how he felt about the banging in the press conferences. He thrives on it!

his game become more inefficient when he faces contact. It is an accurate assessment. And again, it may not matter. He may have simply adjusted to the rules. He may not have. That is my point.

RaiderLakersA's
11-09-2009, 03:45 PM
his game become more inefficient when he faces contact.

Saying that his game is affected by contact is one thing. But saying that a player despises contact is a different assertion altogether.

I like contact. But running into a 300 lb defensive lineman would quickly reveal that I'm not very good at it. That doesn't mean that I despise contact.

AddiX
11-09-2009, 03:46 PM
Bird keeps it real.

He's absolutely right, I don't want to see my team shake the hands with opponents. I watched Bron get a nice bucket on Hughes and they both walked to the other side of the court smiling at each other.

Complete ********.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2009, 03:50 PM
Saying that his game is affected by contact is one thing. But saying that a player despises contact is a different assertion altogether.

I like contact. But running into a 300 lb defensive lineman would quickly reveal that I'm not very good at it. That doesn't mean that I despise contact.

Kobe doesn't like contact. Look at the way he acts when someone is rough with him. Sure he usually starts scoring, but at what expense?
And way to pick out your guy, even though I clearly put other stars in there as well. The point is, we don't know how any of these guys would have looked under the older, tougher league. That is not debatable. some, it wouldn't have mattered. Some, it would have. I don't need to continue to debate if Kobe likes contact or not, its clear he doesn't, and his game suffers when people are rough with him, regardless of whether or not they get away with it.

Big Zo
11-09-2009, 04:16 PM
I wanna see Heat/Knicks style rivalries again. Those were the days...

TheWatcher34
11-09-2009, 04:17 PM
NBA..where friends become foes happens!

King P
11-09-2009, 05:27 PM
there's a big difference between larry bird not shaking hands in the finals against magic and lebron doin that **** in the ecf.

1. In the 1st round, conference semi finals and conference finals, when those series end, basketball continues...so u usually congratulate, wish them luck or get words of encouragement. When the finals end...its over. You usually don't have a whole lot of time to shake hands cuz the other team is already celebrating.

2. In the 1st round, conference semi finals and conference finals, there should be a lot more emotions cuz you got so close yet so far. So I thinks its more acceptable in the finals.

3. In the 1st round, conference semi finals and conference finals, your playing teams that you see 3 or 4 times a season. People that you play with in the allstar game. Comraderie is built. You should at least go tell them to "represent for the east". If anything...i'd find it more difficult and akward to be the winner and have to give them a little pep talk, without sounding like an *******...what do u say to them..."better luck next year"..."you were good, but not good enough"..."you'll get one some day".

4. Lebron got swept in the finals by the spurs and didn't do that ****, so it made him look like a sore loser bitter cause he still doesn't have a ring instead of a hungry competitor with too much pride to shake someones hand. It was just real contradictory.

So I don't think you should be all buddy buddy shaking hands (especially in the finals). But you should at least be consistant with it...or you look like a hypocrite....and you know what...Larry Bird is pretty contradictory himself. This is the same cat who said God was disguised as Michael Jordan when MJ dropped 60 on them in the playoffs. Only teams I think generally hated each other with every inch of their body was Jerry Wests Lakers towards Bill Russells Celtics...and he truely had every right to.

King P
11-09-2009, 05:29 PM
I think its a little different to compare lebron and dwight to bird and magic. Because bird and magic were in the finals for one... They had a rivalry since college They always were each others competition Lebron and dwight are friends...and teamates on the us team as well as the eastern conference all stars. There's is nothing but comraderie between them.

USMCLaker
11-10-2009, 02:24 PM
I don't understand this glorification of sports that turns it into some kind of bootleg "war" between people.

I read a report that said two Cubs fans beat a White Sox fan to the point where the dude became blind in one eye :facepalm:

It is just ridiculous.

It's a ****ing game man.

Hating someone because they happen to compete with you in a game that's played by children is as ludicrous as it gets.

I, as a fan, want to see my players give it their all. 100%. Spill out their guts on the floor trying to secure the win.

But it is stupid for me to want them to hate another human being for some stupid reason such as this.

I wonder what kind of message Bird is sending ?

I guess he doesn't want kids to think that people play sports as an act of teamwork and camaraderie, but rather it's something that should cause divisions and hate between people ?

Ludicrous


Well said!!!

Sports does not = war!!!!

In war combatants might not agree with the war but do their job because it is their job and many vets regret ever having to kill someone or be a part of all the other types of suffering that go along with it.

So to equate sports with warlike behavior is ridiculous to me, like you said it's just an effing game and in school we try to teach children sportsMANship.

Did I enjoy old school basketball in the eighties, yes of course I did who didn't but that was a product of the era and the times but fortunately we are evolving as a society.

Sporting competition was originally created to prevent wars by inducing civil competition and as our technology advances our ability to destroy each other becomes more catastrophic. No one loves to hate on boston more than me for the sake of the rivalry but at the end of the day it is just for good brotherly fun, and I understand that the east coast is the birthplace for the country and I respect the history of Boston and it's civilians.

It's Bron's right not to shake the hands of his opponents but to act like he didn't want to because he lost a war is ridiculous to me.

sp1derm00
11-10-2009, 04:38 PM
It would be NBA marketing heaven if Kobe and Lebron or Wade and Lebron had some sort of beef.

It would also make some VERY enjoyable games.