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burgh_fan66
11-05-2009, 10:48 AM
With the current group of players this is my best guess of what the 2010 roster will look like. I would like to believe some players will be signed but as of right now this is the 25 man roster I'm guessing they will take.

Starting Postion Players
C: Doumit
1B: Jones
2B: Iwamura
3B: LaRoche
SS: Cedeno
LF: Milledge
CF: McCutchen
RF: Young

Bench
C: Jaramillo
1B/OF: Pearce
2B/3B: Vazquez
SS/U: Bixler
OF: Moss

Starting Pitchers
Duke
Ohlendorf
Maholm
Morton
Hart

Bullpen
Capps
Hanrahan
Meek
Thomas
Jackson
Dumatrait
Ascanio

Anyone else want to share thier current 25 man roster?

burgh_fan66
11-08-2009, 12:18 AM
Every year I come up with 3 moves I wish the Pirates would make in free agency. Normally they do 0 or 1 of them but I still thought I'd list them. Sign a RF, a middle of the rotation SP, and a lefty reliever. Added to this would be some minor league invites of relievers and shortstops. Team would look something like this:

Starters
C: Doumit
1B: Jones
2B: Iwamura
3B: LaRoche
SS: Cedeno
LF: Milledge
CF: McCutchen
RF: FA, Ankiel would fit

Bench
C: Jaramillo
1B/OF: Moss or Pearce
2B/3B: Vazquez
SS/U: Bixler/Cruz/Minor League FA
OF: Young

Rotation
SP: Duke
SP: Ohlendorf
SP: FA, Harden would be great but there are a few others that would fit nicely
SP: Maholm
SP: Morton

Bullpen
CL: Capps
SU: Hanrahan
SU: FA Ohman or Beimel would be decent options
MR: Meek
MR: Jackson, Thomas, Veal, Minor League FA
LR: Hart, Ascanio, Karstens, Dumatrait
LR: Another from above

Plenty more holes to fill but I think these 3 are somewhat realistic and reasonable. And no I really don't believe they will sign Harden.

burgh_fan66
11-12-2009, 01:20 PM
There has been almost 200 views of this thread, so surely someone has thier opinion of what the roster will look like. And anyone have thoughts about a few reasonable moves they should make?

nickster16301
11-12-2009, 03:14 PM
i just dont see them making any big moves this offseason...they are going to tell you they are going to be active in free agency but when they offer the same as amount of money to good players as other teams, the good players are going to go to the better team....after all that happens they can come out and say hey we offered player x money and he didnt sign just so it looks like they tried

AaronDeGlau
11-12-2009, 05:47 PM
c doumit
1b jones
2b iwamura
3b la roche
ss cedeno
lf milldege
cf mccutchen
rf ankiel or young

c jaramillo
1bof pearce
1b c clement
ut vasquez
2b of young

duke
ohlendorf
maholm
morton
hart

capps
hanrahan
ryota igarashi a jap free agant 98mph
meek
karstens
a free agent lhp or trade diaz
yates or hansen as a milb free agent
others
thomas
dumatrait
ascanio
jackson
call up this season
alvarez
tabata
walker
lincoln
alderson
moskos
friday
sanchez( just think he is ready so)
hernandez
but please trade capps if you have any value for him and try to sign chad cordero for very cheap since he didnt play last yr

AaronDeGlau
11-12-2009, 09:29 PM
after 2011 season try to pull a ryan braun and sign mccutchen for 6y 45m
also i would like to say i love all of neal's trades but the laroche one, if we kept him we could have got a 2nd round pick at a type b fa for casey kotchman for him, not a. diaz and strickland, bad trade, the mclouth one is that morton as a chance to win 15 if he can throw strike one and hernandez is a right handed morgan, locke is a waste of talent, be smart neal, dont give in now

burgh_fan66
11-15-2009, 11:23 PM
i just dont see them making any big moves this offseason...they are going to tell you they are going to be active in free agency but when they offer the same as amount of money to good players as other teams, the good players are going to go to the better team....after all that happens they can come out and say hey we offered player x money and he didnt sign just so it looks like they tried

like I said they normally end up making 1 of the 3 moves I think they should make.

I think they will sign a LH reliever, a right fielder is possible but the type of starting pitcher I'm looking for won't happen. I've heard the names Jamey Wright and Mark Hendrickson mentioned as potential targets but those are not the types of SP I am talking about.

cre0530
11-18-2009, 10:50 PM
All the Neil apologists are forgetting is that Neil hasn't brought a decent player in on purpose yet. both Olendorf and Jones were a surprise pleasant for the fans and not so pleasant for Huntington as they will like Mcutchen demand more money soon. Hart, Morton, Cedeno, Clement and hernandez can barely play AA ball and would never make the AAA roster on a real MLB team with a knowledgable front office.

burgh_fan66
11-19-2009, 12:38 AM
All the Neil apologists are forgetting is that Neil hasn't brought a decent player in on purpose yet. both Olendorf and Jones were a surprise pleasant for the fans and not so pleasant for Huntington as they will like Mcutchen demand more money soon. Hart, Morton, Cedeno, Clement and hernandez can barely play AA ball and would never make the AAA roster on a real MLB team with a knowledgable front office.

You do realize Hart, Morton, Cedeno and Clement all were on the major league roster of the team they came from at one point, right? So other organizations do believe they are major leaguers not just the Pirates.

And Delwyn Young and Brandon Moss are decent players when used in correct roles. Young as a pinch hitter and Moss as a 4th outfielder.

MooseWithFleas
11-19-2009, 07:39 PM
I don't no how you put up with it burgh fan. Keep hope alive, this team IS turning it around.

gfixer33
11-21-2009, 05:09 PM
like I said they normally end up making 1 of the 3 moves I think they should make.

I think they will sign a LH reliever, a right fielder is possible but the type of starting pitcher I'm looking for won't happen. I've heard the names Jamey Wright and Mark Hendrickson mentioned as potential targets but those are not the types of SP I am talking about.

actually as a o's fan hendrickson is much better out of the bullpen either long releif or situational.how about scott posednak or roco baldelli for a cheap outfielder.

AaronDeGlau
11-21-2009, 07:41 PM
i like those names, i really do, but i dont see why they would come here unless its spring training, i think we will sign some non tenders

cre0530
11-26-2009, 02:29 PM
You do realize Hart, Morton, Cedeno and Clement all were on the major league roster of the team they came from at one point, right? So other organizations do believe they are major leaguers not just the Pirates.

And Delwyn Young and Brandon Moss are decent players when used in correct roles. Young as a pinch hitter and Moss as a 4th outfielder.

I agree Moss is by far better than Milledge in the field but is worse at the plate not by much though. Young is a pitch hit specialist and only good for that. At one point players like Morton, Hart, Cedeno and Clement were on ML rosters until the baseball minds on those teams recognized they made an error in judgment. Morton and Hart are only good for a decent outing once every 5 or 6 appearances which puts added strain on a weak bullpen and adds to our loss column. Cedeno has proven he can't throw out runners when the ball is hit into the hole which is kinda what a shortstop is expected to do on a consistent basis, he really tore it up at the plate didn't he? Clement the supposed great star isn't even able to dominate at the lower levels at the plate and still can't catch anything hit to him. Going further Hernandez whose speed is negated by the fact he rarely gets on base even at the AA level can barely throw the ball into the infield which is why he wasn't picked up during the last rule 5 draft when he was left unprotected.
In short Neil Huntington has not made a trade that improved the talent on this team because his motivation was to cut payroll. So to avoid disappointment don't look for the pirates to pick up any talent during free agency.

AaronDeGlau
11-26-2009, 04:41 PM
i agree that moss is better on d and young, but i think morton will win 15, hart wants to to good, so thats a start and clement is given a second shot here, i still like the trades and the players we got back, now we just have watch the development and wait i more yr

MooseWithFleas
01-11-2010, 09:19 PM
With the Church move, I wanted to also look at how the 2010 Pirates lineup is shaping up.

Lineup
1.) Andrew McCutchen - CF
2.) Akinori Iwamura - 2B
3.) Garrett Jones - 1B
4.) Andy LaRoche - 3B
5.) Ryan Doumit - C
6.) Ryan Church - RF
7.) Lastings Milledge - LF
8.) Bobby Crosby - SS

Bench
Jeff Clement
Ronny Cedeno
Jason Jaramillo
Delwyn Young
Brandon Moss

Rotation
SP1: Zach Duke
SP2: Paul Maholm
SP3: Ross Ohlendorf
SP4: Charlie Morton
SP5: Kevin Hart

Bullpen
LR: Jeff Karstens
MR: ???
MR: ???
MR: Jack Taschner
MR: Steven Jackson
SU: Evan Meek
CL: Joel Hanrahan

burgh_fan66
01-12-2010, 10:10 AM
I think Clement will actually get first shot to start. Plus Lopez will be in the bullpen. I am thinking a team something like this:

Lineup
CF: A McCutchen
2B: A Iwamura
RF: G Jones
C: R Doumit
LF: L Milledge
3B: A LaRoche
1B: J Clement
SS: R Cedeno

Bench
C: Jaramillo
IF: Crosby
IF: Vazquez
OF: Church
OF: Raynor

Starting Rotation
Z Duke
R Ohlendorf
P Maholm
C Morton
K Hart

Bullpen
C Jakubauskas or J Karstens
S Jackson
J Taschner or another NRI/FA
FA - hopefully Dotel
J Lopez
E Meek
J Hanrahan

This isn't how I want the team; it is how I think the team will look.

Jimmy Shine
01-12-2010, 01:00 PM
I have to agree with Moose here. After the Clement charade plays out, i think youll see Jones at 1B and Church a fixture in right.

burgh_fan66
01-12-2010, 08:29 PM
I have to agree with Moose here. After the Clement charade plays out, i think youll see Jones at 1B and Church a fixture in right.

I would prefer to see that but I dont think we will. If that does happen that opens a bench spot for Moss or Young.

AaronDeGlau
01-13-2010, 10:52 PM
i would bat clement 6 and laroche 7, and give clement a break, he wasnt the 4th overall pick on luck, look out for brian bass and dj carassaco as the 5th man but i would like to see hart there, add yates cotts hansen at midseason as well along with the prospects by the end of the season

Pensx3
01-13-2010, 11:48 PM
What is going to happen with Delwyn Young? Is he just going to be a utility man?

Pensx3
01-13-2010, 11:56 PM
I like the signing of Church now if we can sign a respectable starting pitcher and get some relief pitchers i will be excited to go to some games this summer...the buccos need to assemble a team to draw a crowd, fireworks night is not cutting it anymore.

burgh_fan66
01-14-2010, 10:48 AM
What is going to happen with Delwyn Young? Is he just going to be a utility man?


I like the signing of Church now if we can sign a respectable starting pitcher and get some relief pitchers i will be excited to go to some games this summer...the buccos need to assemble a team to draw a crowd, fireworks night is not cutting it anymore.

Delwyn Young I would guess is now trade bait. It appears the relief pitchers are on the way but I don't think you will see the starting pitcher. They seem to want to see what Hart or McCutchen have.

burgh_fan66
01-14-2010, 10:59 AM
Assuming what is being reported comes true and Dotel and the mystery pitcher sign I think the team will now look like this:

C: Doumit
1B: Clement
2B: Iwamura
3B: LaRoche
SS: Cedeno
LF: Milledge
CF: McCutchen
RF: Jones

C: Jaramillo
IF: Crosby
IF: Vazquez
OF: Church
OF: Raynor

SP: Duke
SP: Ohlendorf
SP: Maholm
SP: Morton
SP: Hart

LR: Carassco
MR: Mystery Arm
MR: Lopez
MR: Jackson
SU: Meek
SU: Hanrahan
CL: Dotel

Some of these spots could very well change in spring training but I get a sense this is basically what the 25 man roster would look like right now.

MooseWithFleas
01-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Throw Brian Bass into the discussion for the last MR spot, along with Taschner and Jakubauskus.

And Dotel does appear to be correct. Him and Hanrahan will battle for the closers job in the spring.

AaronDeGlau
01-14-2010, 09:05 PM
i was going to post a 25 man as well but u to got it nailed down right, lets just see who we might pick up in a few trades between now and april. later on throw in yates, cotts, veal,hansen,lincoln,alvarez,tabata,maskos and other picks ups, we are finally getting a ball club

burgh_fan66
01-15-2010, 11:46 PM
i was going to post a 25 man as well but u to got it nailed down right, lets just see who we might pick up in a few trades between now and april. later on throw in yates, cotts, veal,hansen,lincoln,alvarez,tabata,maskos and other picks ups, we are finally getting a ball club

:shush: shh be quiet. we don't want the rest of the league to realize that the Pirates are actually putting together some type of a major league team.

If Alvarez develops into a middle of the order bat and one of Lincoln /Alderson or someone turns into a top of the rotation pitcher this team actually might surprise. But there are still a couple ifs there so we just have to wait and see.

MooseWithFleas
01-16-2010, 05:49 PM
Pirates signed Brendan Donnelly as well. The bullpen is looking quite healthy right now.

LR: Carrasco
MR: Lopez
MR: Jackson
MR: Donnelly
MR: Meek
SU: Hanrahan
CL: Dotel

Jimmy Shine
01-16-2010, 07:01 PM
Apparantly the bullpen is the one place left where the Pirates can give the impression of doing something at salarys theyre willing to pay.

spanky8992
01-24-2010, 12:34 AM
If Milledge can reach his potential, we can be really good.

Jimmy Shine
01-24-2010, 12:48 PM
If Milledge can reach his potential, we can be really good.

Compared to who?

MooseWithFleas
01-24-2010, 01:57 PM
I think the team could be poised to win 70-72 games. I think this might be a year that starts off really rough, but ends with much promise. 2011 might be the year of the turnaround, when Alvarez, Tabata, and Sanchez will be having an impact. Realistically, 2012-2014 will be the year when they can content, depending on the moves the front office makes. That doesn't mean 2010 won't be an exciting season though, look for young players like Milledge, LaRoche, McCutchen to grow and anticipate a call-up from one of the top specs.

AaronDeGlau
01-26-2010, 10:21 AM
i hoping 75-85 wins

burgh_fan66
01-28-2010, 12:13 AM
I think the team could be poised to win 70-72 games. I think this might be a year that starts off really rough, but ends with much promise. 2011 might be the year of the turnaround, when Alvarez, Tabata, and Sanchez will be having an impact. Realistically, 2012-2014 will be the year when they can content, depending on the moves the front office makes. That doesn't mean 2010 won't be an exciting season though, look for young players like Milledge, LaRoche, McCutchen to grow and anticipate a call-up from one of the top specs.

That is about my take on the season. Approximately 70 wins. I say give or take 3 wins.

burgh_fan66
03-07-2010, 09:12 PM
I have determined what I want the roster to look like given the current players so I thought I'd post it. This is what I wish it would look like not what I think it will look like.

Starting Position Players:
C - Ryan Doumit
1B - Garrett Jones
2B - Akino Iwamura
3B - Andy LaRoche
SS - Bobby Crosby
LF - Lasting Milledge
CF - Andrew McCutchen
RF - Ryan Church

Bench
C - Jason Jaramillo
IF - Ronny Cedeno (2B/SS)
IF - Neil Walker (also 3rd catcher)
OF - Steven Pearce (platoon with Chruch, he hits lefties really well)
OF - John Raynor (top pinch-runner and backup CF)
OF - Brandon Moss (bench needs another lefty bat)

Starting Rotation
Paul Maholm
Russ Ohlendorf
Zach Duke
Charlie Morton
Daniel McCutchen

Bullpen
Kevin Hart - only 6 bullpen pitchers; so 2 long men needed
DJ Carrasco
Javier Lopez
Evan Meek
Brendan Donnelly
Ocatvio Dotel

DL - Joel Hanrahan (when he comes back either send Hart down if rotation is doing well or cut Moss or demote Pearce)

That is not what I thnk it will look like just what I hope it does.

AaronDeGlau
03-11-2010, 12:29 PM
i hope crosby starts, but he wont. i see young on the team over vasquez. i think there will be only 4 sp for the first two weeks of the season, making there be two bench spots and 7 relivers.
jaramillo
crosby
young
raynor
moss
church
also clement will be out 1st and jones rf
ps
pedro played a good game yesterday on tv, but he threw away his last ab

burgh_fan66
03-11-2010, 04:33 PM
on second though with the way Moss is playing this spring perhaps we should just cut him and go with a 7 man pen like normal.

I would really like to see Crosby get a shot at SS but you are right it will almost definatley be Cedeno. Clement will probably start the year at 1st and Pearce and Walker will be left in AAA.

The AAA infield is looking really crowded though.

Pearce, Myrow, Ford, Negrych, Alvarez, Walker, Diaz, Friday, Bernier

I am assuming Myrow is kept as a reserve outfielder. Bernier will probably start at AA because they need a backup middle infielder there. Pearce, Ford, Alvarez and Diaz will probably get most of the starts.

That leaves Negrych, Walker and Friday to back them up. I think that is one too many. Walker will probably work on a utility role so one of Negrych or Friday will need released or demoted.

I am really interested to see how the minors shake out there is a gap in talent at the AA level but a little too much (bodies wise at least) at certain positions in AAA and the lower levels.

AaronDeGlau
03-12-2010, 12:21 PM
thuis is how i see it at aaa
1b pearce
2b ford and friday
ss diaz
3b alvarez
ut walker
ut myrow
jim and bernier to aa

burgh_fan66
03-12-2010, 06:22 PM
That is similar to my thinking. Getting playing time for Negrych is not and should not be a prioirty. His future in the big leagues, if any, would be as a pinch-hitting utility infielder. So might as well use him in that role in the minors.

How do you think D'Arnaud and Mercer will be used this year? I have been trying to figure that one out. I think both will start at AA but I hope they dont make them share the shortstop position. I would like to see one or the other play second.

MR.MET_N_JET
03-13-2010, 08:28 PM
hey guys I'm a die hard mets fan and i love the way your team is looking u guys have a bright future !!!!!!

AaronDeGlau
03-15-2010, 11:12 AM
thanks mr met, we think around 2011-2014 will be our best yrs(if most players develop) but i hope the jets go no where but down

AaronDeGlau
03-15-2010, 11:14 AM
i think mercer will be our aa short stop and d arnaud will play 2b, with negrych and bernier as the backups. but they could be fliped

burgh_fan66
03-15-2010, 11:36 PM
I am hoping it will be that way. I think d'Arnaud will eventually move to 2nd anyway. But last year they made them split time a lot and I ant to see both of them get consistent playing time.

Harrison could throw a wrench into the thing if he starts at AA but i think he will stay in high A.

Negrych and Bernier sound good as backups but I would not be surprised if one of them started out in AAA. Since Hernandez is starting out at AA the Pirates have a position player spot open in AAA. It will be one of these two or the more likely canidate in my opinion is Durham as a backup OF.

burgh_fan66
03-16-2010, 01:49 PM
According to all accounts the opening day roster will probably look like this.

C: Ryan Doumit
1B: Jeff Clement
2B: Akinori Iwamura
3B: Andy LaRoche
SS: Ronny Cedeno
LF: Lastings Milledge
CF: Andrew McCutchen
RF: Garrett Jones

C: Jason Jaramillo
IF: Bobby Crosby
IF: Delwyn Young
OF: Ryan Church
OF: John Raynor

Paul Maholm
Ross Ohlendorf
Zach Duke
Charlie Morton
Kevin Hart

DJ Carrasco
Jack Taschner
Vinnie Chulk
Javier Lopez
Evan Meek
Brendan Donnelly
Octavio Dotel

I am thinking that will be the opening day roster. The only changes I could see are:

Brandon Moss over Jeff Clement
Erik Kratrz over Jason Jaramillo
Brian Bass over Vinnie Chulk

There are others possible but I think this is basically what it will look like.

burgh_fan66
03-23-2010, 07:20 PM
With Hart being cut, and Clement and Young all but assured spots it looks like these all the last battles.

Jaramillo and Kratz for the back up catcher.Jaramillo has 2 options left so I think it is entirely possible he is sent down to get regular playing time. Kratz put up good numbners last year in AAA and looks like he would be a serviceable backup.

Moss and Raynor for the 5th outfielder job. Raynor has outperformed but I think the Pirates want to keep Moss.

2 Bullpen Spots Not a shortage of candidates. All NRIs though. Bass, Chulk, Calgget, Jackson, Karstens, Powell, Taschner.

Assuming Carasco makes the team, two NRI relievers and maybe Kratz four spots are going to have to be opened up the 40 man roster. One will probably be Vazquez, another very well might be the Moss/Raynor loser, and a third probably will be Ascanio going to the 60 day DL. That leaves one more spot and I am not quite sure who it wuld be I would guess Jakubauskas.

burgh_fan66
03-25-2010, 11:03 AM
After looking at the situation a little closer I think the Pirates might just start the year with 11 pitchers and 14 position players. Assuming no rain outs they will only need a 5th starter once before April 24th. So that means the fifth starter, McCutchen, could be used as an extra bullpen arm or could even be sent down after April 11th (the only day a 5th starter is needed) and a bullpen arm could be recalled.

The line up and rotation would be basically the same but the bullpen and bench might look a little different.

Bench
C: Jason Jaramillo/Erik Kratz
1B/2B/3B/SS: Bobby Crosby
2B/3B/RF: Delwyn Young
LF/RF: Ryan Church
OF: John Raynor/Brandon Moss
Extra: John Raynor/Brandon Moss/Ramon Vazquez/Steve Pearce

Bullpen
Locks: Dotel, Donnelly, Meek, Lopez, Carrasco
1 from: Bass, Chulk, Calggett, Jackson, Karstens, Powell, Taschner
- I'd prefer Taschner since he would be another lefty but we will see.

Pearce would be a long shot but I would like to see him make the team because he is right handed and could platoon with Clement (I would prefer a platoon in right with Church but I know thats not going to happen). Vazquez might be kept a little longer if a trade partner can not be found. But the most likely IMO would be keeping both Moss and Raynor.

burgh_fan66
03-29-2010, 11:29 PM
With Moss being cut and Penn being picked up looks like the roster is basically set. Strange line up as well but its what JR is going with.

1. Iwamura, 2B
2. McCutchen, CF
3. Jones, RF
4. Doumit, C
5. Milledge, LF
6. Clement, 1B
7. LaRoche, 3B
8. Pitcher
9. Cedeno, SS

Bench
C: Jaramillo/Kratz -this is the one spot left; Jaramillo may start at AAA to get more AB
IF: Crosby
OF: Church
OF: Raynor
U: Young

Rotation
Duke
Ohlendorf
Maholm
Morton
McCutchen

Bullpen
LR: Penn
LR: Carrasco
MR: Taschner
MR: Lopez
SU: Meek
SU: Donnelly
CL: Dotel

Like it or not this is what the team is going to look like headed into the 2010 season. I would bet Jaramillo starts out as the back up catcher only because I do not who they would take off the 40 man roster for him. Ascanio will be put on the 60 day DL and Vazquez cut so that opens room for Carrasco and Taschner. To open a spot for Kratz they would probably waive Diaz or Jakubauskas and while those two are expendable I do not know if the Pirates would give up on them quite yet.

Tomahawk27
03-29-2010, 11:54 PM
Hey Burghfan I saw you in the one discussion on the realignment and you said to stop by... so here I am. I will start off by saying that I am a supporter of what Huntington has done and the players he has traded to get the current roster what it is today.

You and I were debating on the other board about a salary cap and what should be made of it. While I do not think the current system in the MLB would support a narrow salary cap minimum and maximum, there should be a limit on both. Something is obviously wrong when one teams entire payroll (Pirates for example) is less than that of a single player (Arod for example). Far too long have we Pirates fans been promised that "this is the year," only to see our team start miserably and end worse. I believe that the first sign of hope is when ownership willingly goes out and spends money on quality free agents and prospects (Sano). When reading how that process ended, I was simply disgusted as it seems the Pirates were unwilling to spend the necessary money on an elite level prospect. The Twins eventually ended up signing him for only a few million more than we offered which made it all the worse.

You mentioned before that it was basically you on the Pirates board Burghfan and I believe that is a sign of the 17 straight losing seasons. Now that you know where I stand on the Pirates and current ownership, I look forward to having many debates with you and hopefully some agreements as well lol.

burgh_fan66
03-30-2010, 11:36 AM
I know thats why I am here by myself. I have said it many times the 17 years of losing is starting to kill off die-hard fans. People like you and me are a different breed we are as I call us never-die fans.

The way I see the Sano mess is not the front office unwilling to spend money but rather just a general mismanagement of the situation. They were treating Sano like a draft pick because it appeared certain he would sign with them, plus they underestimated the ego of his agent. I do not think money played a huge role,it was just a management gaffe, which I think is actually worse.

I do not support a hard cap as I believe a there is nothing wrong with what the Yankees, Red Sox and other large market teams do. They are doing what they can to field a good team. I know most teams in baseball can not comete with that so there should be some balancing out. The luxury tax (soft cap) is a good start but higher percentages need to be enforced, in addition revune sharing needs to be increased. In return a floor needs to be implemented. Teams should have to spend to a certain level.

I am also a supporter of the NH plan as there was no other reasonable way to go. Adding enough to the team via free agency to make them compete would have been rather difficult. I think they would had to of added the Yankee trio last year, plus trade for a third baseman in a trade centered around McCutchen (with McLouth, Nady and Bay he was expendable). And even then they would have had to hope.

Huntington has made some trades I strongly agree with Nady, McLouth, Morgan but he has made others I am not so sure about Grabow, Wilson, Bay. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. There is a glimmer of hope. I think this year will be better than last and I think the team will keep improving. Wether or not they will compete I am not sold on that but overall the organization looks better than it did two years ago.

Finally welcome aboard, we do have a few others who occasionally come around this board but mainly its just me. I look forward to many discussions with you and hopefully others.

burgh_fan66
03-30-2010, 11:38 AM
Just to add to my own roster discussion.

Taschner will be on the team if they keep a 7 man pen but there is always the chance they go with a six man bench and keep Vazquez around a little longer.

Tomahawk27
03-30-2010, 12:55 PM
Well now that it is known we both agree with NH trades and the overall youth movement, I want to get your opinions on the farm system, mostly guys like Alvarez, Walker, Lincoln, and Tabata. All of these guys are in AAA and to my knowledge are the ones most likely to be called up. Here is what I gather from each of them:

Alvarez: The best prospect in our system and will be called up in summer. While it is obvious that he is our best option at third, where does that put LaRoche? I'm not with Iwamura at second so that is where I say he should play.

Walker: Unfortunately for Neil they drafted Alvarez which basically automatically displaced him at third. Once again, I'm not sold at second so if Neil could get the hang of it, I would love to have him here for good.

Lincoln: Hard to argue he should be here with the rather young rotation we currently have but my question to you is, when do you think he will stay with the Pirates?

Tabata: Another elite level prospect blocked by a crowded outfield. I believe McCutchen and Milledge are locks in center and left leaving Church and Jones to battle it out. Jones has the job I think but if you remove him, there goes a lot of your power. When Tabata finally arrives, does Jones play first and Clement sit?

burgh_fan66
03-30-2010, 02:03 PM
Alvarez will be up some time in june as long as he shows an ability to hit left handed pitching at least respectably. He is a good fit at third, however if LaRoche adds just a little power, I would like to keep his glove there and send Alvarez to 1st. I am not opposed to trying LaRoche at 2nd though.

Walker, I wanted him to make the team this year as the second infielder off the bench. I know learning a utility role on the fly is not the easiest thing to do but I thought he would be worth a shot. He would have added power to the bench, that is one thing he has done ok in the minors plus he would have made it easier to use Doumit as a pinch hitter on his off days. Walker could have been the emergency catcher.

Lincoln's debut I am thinking will come in late July. I think one of Duke and Maholm will be traded, I actually think one of them should be traded they are just too similar to both be in the rotation long term. Maybe that wont be his debut but he will join the rotation on a more permanent basis.

Tabata I have my doubts about. He needs to develop some power or else he will not be a good fit for this team. There is nothing wrong with the type of player he should become if he doesnt develop power, it is just the Pirates need him to be a run producer and a power righty bat. I actually think he will play most of the year in AAA.

Another prospect I think we will see in the majors some time this year is Moskos. I know a lot of people are down on him and yes he should not have been drafted where he was but I think he is going to be an ok major leaguer. I think he will excel in his relief role this year and be called up as a lefty reliever after one of Taschner or Lopez gets injured or is cut for ineffectiveness. He will do a serviceable job and become a nice lefty out of the pen, nothing grand but serviceable.

burgh_fan66
03-30-2010, 03:25 PM
Tomahawk I have posted this twice before but I will post it again and let you read it. I think it describes fans like you and me quite well. Try to read through any atrocious spelling or grammar mistakes, this was a long rant of mine in response to a Yankee fan who was wondering how fans could put up with the team this long. It kind of sums up my feeling of the team, not its current direction or anything but just my general passion for this team.



There is no simple answer to that. The older fans will tell you about the Lumber Company of the 70's and how they are awaiting a return to glory. Even older fans will talk about Maz and his walk off shot. The generation before me might point to the early 90's team which gave the Braves all they could handle. In my generation we all have our own reasons. Personally, mine was the '97 season. Specifically two events in that season the 10 million dollar man (Albert Bell) being swept by the 9 million dollar freak show Pirates. And moment two was Cordova and Rincon throwing a 10-inning no hitter, and Mark Smith's walk off 3-run homer (same game).

Through it all we have lost the fringe fan, the casual fan, the bandwagon fan, the medium fan, the normal fan, and even some die hard fans. There are still a few die-hards left but I believe alot of us are never-die fans. The Pirates are our spirit, it is the baseball we grew up loving and we know nothing else. The baseball gods gave us this team to support and we will honor our duty through any and all trials. We support them not because they are goo, not because the future is bright but because they are ours. We are with them for every up and every down, every turn, every trade, every defeat and the very few triumphs.

We put up with it because they are OUR team and will be forever. They will be good again and when they are we will relish the oppurtunity to say we witnessed it. We will be able to say we watched OUR team come out of the roughest stretch in sports history. The Pirate fan is a different type of fan we put up with because WE ARE THEM. The Pirate fan represents all that was once good with Pirate baseball and all that will be good again in the future. Without us all that reamins are a pile of losing seasons and mound of shattered hopes. They are in our blood, our mind, our spirit. We need to stay with it or Pirate baseball will cease to exist.

I hope this explains it but if it does not, well I tried. It is really tough to explain. Basically we are afraid that if we give up hope the true-Pirate brand of baseball will be forever lost.

Tomahawk27
03-30-2010, 04:41 PM
I completely agree Burghfan, we stay with this team because of the rich history and the hope that we can achieve at least some of it in the near future. To lose hope and stop following the Pirates would be to ignore past achievements and show that we have been defeated in a sense. I do not pretend to be the biggest baseball fan out there but I can appreciate a team full of history (such as beating the Yankees in Game 7) who have gone through a very long and tough stretch that may be on the brink of retuning.

MooseWithFleas
03-31-2010, 12:48 AM
Burgh, I really think if you have the time you should start a Pirates blog. I think you would develop a significant following as your work is really good. I'd help spread the word as well.

flea
04-02-2010, 02:04 AM
I'll just ask this here since there's only a few of you guys around and it's not likely to get lost in this forum:

How do you fans feel about Garrett Jones in 2010? He didn't have much fantasy draft stock despite his belated breakout year and pretty much everyone thinks he won't come close to repeating 2009. I drafted him in my league and I think he's going to end up a steal. Of course, I have one of my corner slots riding on him and Troy Glaus so it's not like I took him to see what happens.

Personally, from one interview and a few games last season, I like him as a player. I'm asking you guys because you watch the games, but I'm hoping he does well because he seems like a good and understated kind of guy (and he can really boost my fantasy team). I can look up his minor league numbers so here's what I specifically wanted to know:

-He's only recently started racking up the steals, how much of his this is real? Does he have average or better speed, does he mainly get steals with his baserunning skills, and what do you guys project for him in 2010?
-How much power is real? His minor league ISOs hover around .200, do you think he can outdo that this year and maybe go halfway to his outrageous .274 mark of 2009?
-What is his contact rate like? He's got a slightly better than average BABIP to go with a career .270 average - is there any reason to expect anything better than .270 in 2010?
-How is his patience? He drew an unspectacular number of walks in his minor league career, but he's not a hacker by any means. Do you think he'll even reach his minor league career mark of .350 OBP? Walks are the one thing that seems to dissipate for hitters in the majors since basically every walk is earned.

I'm not expecting an All Star here, but a fantasy production line of .270, 25 HRs, 75 R, 85 RBIs, 15 SB on the cheap would thrill me.

And one last thing, from watching him last year is he a player prone to streakiness moreso than average baseball players? I like to shuffle my weaker fantasy positions in a pseudo platoon based on matchups and, more often, hitting streaks. Is he a guy I should be ready to bench for week or two if he's in a rut?

Tomahawk27
04-02-2010, 11:16 PM
flea,

burghfan woud be able to answer your questions better than I ccan but I will give it a shot. Whenever Jones started playing consistently the homeruns were mostly in the beginning and they kind of dropped off towards the end of the season. I really don't know much about his stats but regarding his speed, yes he will steal a few bases for you. He is a pretty big guy but has really good speed for someone his size. With all of this being said, I expect teams to take more notice to him and realize that he is by no means a fluke however, I still anticipate another good season from Jones with (hopefully) 30+ homeruns and maybe 15-20 steals, but that is just a complete guess.

Tomahawk27
04-05-2010, 10:30 PM
A good win today by the Pirates. Duke allows only two runs in the 1st and then straightens it out and the whole lineup produces offensively. A good showing by the young lineup and hopefully a showing of more to come

burgh_fan66
04-05-2010, 11:39 PM
First of all sorry I have been gone so long. I got an abnormally large amount of college work this past week but I am now mainly through that (only one paper and test to go)


I completely agree Burghfan, we stay with this team because of the rich history and the hope that we can achieve at least some of it in the near future. To lose hope and stop following the Pirates would be to ignore past achievements and show that we have been defeated in a sense. I do not pretend to be the biggest baseball fan out there but I can appreciate a team full of history (such as beating the Yankees in Game 7) who have gone through a very long and tough stretch that may be on the brink of retuning.

Its nice to have you around. I am a not a big baseball fan but I am a huge Pirate fan.


Burgh, I really think if you have the time you should start a Pirates blog. I think you would develop a significant following as your work is really good. I'd help spread the word as well.

I will consider it but not for a few months. I am graduating soon and I am more concerned about finding an actual job at the moment.


I'll just ask this here since there's only a few of you guys around and it's not likely to get lost in this forum:

How do you fans feel about Garrett Jones in 2010? He didn't have much fantasy draft stock despite his belated breakout year and pretty much everyone thinks he won't come close to repeating 2009. I drafted him in my league and I think he's going to end up a steal. Of course, I have one of my corner slots riding on him and Troy Glaus so it's not like I took him to see what happens.

Personally, from one interview and a few games last season, I like him as a player. I'm asking you guys because you watch the games, but I'm hoping he does well because he seems like a good and understated kind of guy (and he can really boost my fantasy team). I can look up his minor league numbers so here's what I specifically wanted to know:

-He's only recently started racking up the steals, how much of his this is real? Does he have average or better speed, does he mainly get steals with his baserunning skills, and what do you guys project for him in 2010?
-How much power is real? His minor league ISOs hover around .200, do you think he can outdo that this year and maybe go halfway to his outrageous .274 mark of 2009?
-What is his contact rate like? He's got a slightly better than average BABIP to go with a career .270 average - is there any reason to expect anything better than .270 in 2010?
-How is his patience? He drew an unspectacular number of walks in his minor league career, but he's not a hacker by any means. Do you think he'll even reach his minor league career mark of .350 OBP? Walks are the one thing that seems to dissipate for hitters in the majors since basically every walk is earned.

I'm not expecting an All Star here, but a fantasy production line of .270, 25 HRs, 75 R, 85 RBIs, 15 SB on the cheap would thrill me.

And one last thing, from watching him last year is he a player prone to streakiness moreso than average baseball players? I like to shuffle my weaker fantasy positions in a pseudo platoon based on matchups and, more often, hitting streaks. Is he a guy I should be ready to bench for week or two if he's in a rut?

I am not really adept at some of the more advance stats there but I'll give you my overview. (Your line is actually a good overall projection.)

His steals are mainly from base running skill, he has average speed. 15 steals is a reasonable optimistic projection. I see around 10 to 12.

His power is real as he showed today.

He has good plae discipline. I do not think he will take a lot of walks this year because he pretty much is the Pirates sole run producer, so he needs to swing whenever possible. But he will be selective enough to keep his Ks low.

As far as being streaky, he seems to be a very streaky power hitter. Meaning when he is in the zone he is a really dangerous power threat. HDuring his streaks in which for little power he should still be serviceable because it does not affect the rest of his game.

One concern is he does not seem to be a great clutch hitter. He struggled mightily with runners in scoring position last year.

So essentially take your line, chop off a few steals, maybe add a few batting average points and if his RISP problem continues take off a couple RBIs and you have what Garrett Jones will do this year.

As I stated he is power streaky but even when he is not in one of his streaks he is still servicable because he does not let the drop in power affect the rest of his game.

So for fantasy purposes you will need to bench him during his non-power streaks if you are counting on him for home runs. Otherwise he should be a fine everyday play.

burgh_fan66
04-06-2010, 09:50 AM
flea,
In case you dont want to read my long answer I'll summarize it will quick.

Jones has legitimate power. His steals mainly come from his baserunning ability so about 10-15 is all you will get from him. His RBI production is in question because he has proven to be inconsistent with RISP. His power comes in spurts, some times he will have it, others time not. When he does not have it though, he does not allow it to affect the rest of his game.

Wrigheyes4MVP
04-07-2010, 10:26 AM
If Milledge can reach his potential, we can be really good.

Milledge is the biggest tease...one second he looks great...the next second he looks horrible.

But playing in Pittsburgh on a young team that hasnt won in decades is the perfect place for him. There is no pressure on him at all...and he made best friends with his twin in CF.

Seriously those two look ridiculous next to each other in the OF. They look like two Lil Wayne twins patroling the OF.

Anway...Milledge is still young, and playing for Pitt may give him the time to relax and come into his own.

But he is such a tease and is frusturating as hell to watch sometimes.

-Mets fan

burgh_fan66
04-07-2010, 11:33 PM
I think Milledge will thrive in the low pressure enviroment of Pittsburgh. He can be a great part of the team and help make the offense capabale of supporting the pitchers.