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BTownTeamsRKing
10-29-2009, 11:56 PM
who in the world goes into a WS against this yankee line up and makes them look so foolish with a freaken 87 mph fastball?

he outstmarted those all star hitters completely. he struck out jeter and a-rod twice and damon and teixeira once. sure they got 2 HRs. big deal. this is Pedro 6 years removed from his prime and he was great out there.

(nice job theo picking smoltz, byrd, and penny over Pedro, who wanted to go to Boston. stupid *** move.)

He talked the talk and Walked the walk. the phillies offense didnt support him and Manuel pulled a grady little leaving him in there past 100 pitches. but it doesn't take away that this guy put on one heck of a show in a classic match up.

all hail the Dominican Dominater.

wheres fat roger now?

Dark Donnie
10-29-2009, 11:57 PM
He did pitch very good.

NYK|NYY
10-29-2009, 11:58 PM
Expected him to get shelled, gave him his props in another thread. He pitched well.

jetsfan28
10-29-2009, 11:58 PM
I expected nothing less

theLgndKllr35
10-30-2009, 12:01 AM
I wonder what will happen this offseason with him.

jetsfan28
10-30-2009, 12:03 AM
I wonder what will happen this offseason with him.
Probably the same thing. He's best off going the Clemens route at this point in his career.

NYY NYJ NYK
10-30-2009, 12:10 AM
He was freaking amazing. (Thank god he didn't resign with the Red Sox)

Also thank god A.J was on his game today.

Don Starks
10-30-2009, 12:10 AM
how many games did he pitch this season?

theLgndKllr35
10-30-2009, 12:12 AM
Probably the same thing. He's best off going the Clemens route at this point in his career.

I'd agree with that. He'll probably do it with Philadelphia again if all goes well in the series.

GottaBelieve
10-30-2009, 12:14 AM
Pedro is a living legend. Plain and simple.

MooseWithFleas
10-30-2009, 12:15 AM
:clap: Pedro

Sick Of It All
10-30-2009, 12:15 AM
too bad he took the last 2 and a half years off when he was a Met.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 12:17 AM
Amazing is a little bit of an overstatement. He was very good, and alot more mistake pitches were made just weren't taken advantage of. When he was hit, he was hit hard, just right to the outfielders. Very good outing, little upset he went the "I'm sick" route, jeter has battled sickness since September never mentions it win or lose. But again, very unexpected, I thought he would go 4 innings giving up 4 or 5 runs. But i thought the same from Burnett

Pavelb1
10-30-2009, 12:18 AM
"nice job theo picking smoltz, byrd, and penny over Pedro, who wanted to go to Boston. stupid *** move"

Yeah, Pedro's great when he has about a years rest, then 9 days for this start. Problem is Theo needed him all year. Besides Pedro wanted too much money.

7chuck7
10-30-2009, 12:22 AM
who in the world goes into a WS against this yankee line up and makes them look so foolish with a freaken 87 mph fastball?

he outstmarted those all star hitters completely. he struck out jeter and a-rod twice and damon and teixeira once. sure they got 2 HRs. big deal. this is Pedro 6 years removed from his prime and he was great out there.

(nice job theo picking smoltz, byrd, and penny over Pedro, who wanted to go to Boston. stupid *** move.)

He talked the talk and Walked the walk. the phillies offense didnt support him and Manuel pulled a grady little leaving him in there past 100 pitches. but it doesn't take away that this guy put on one heck of a show in a classic match up.

all hail the Dominican Dominater.

wheres fat roger now?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone phone Fenway lately ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UQI59N-bAs

Pavelb1
10-30-2009, 12:26 AM
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone phone Fenway lately ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UQI59N-bAs

Why? Will Aroldis Chapman answer?

Havoc Wreaker
10-30-2009, 12:30 AM
I was nervous, as I stated in the other thread, but he was pretty good.

Too bad Burnett was better.

:cheers:

Dark Donnie
10-30-2009, 12:30 AM
Amazing is a little bit of an overstatement. He was very good, and alot more mistake pitches were made just weren't taken advantage of. When he was hit, he was hit hard, just right to the outfielders. Very good outing, little upset he went the "I'm sick" route, jeter has battled sickness since September never mentions it win or lose. But again, very unexpected, I thought he would go 4 innings giving up 4 or 5 runs. But i thought the same from Burnett

Pedro is 38 years old and only pitched a handful of starts. What he did was pretty incredible.

PhillyForLife90
10-30-2009, 12:32 AM
Pedro did pitch very well, its a shame we couldn't get him the win. Surely enough, he has the numbers to get into the HOF, no?

Pavelb1
10-30-2009, 12:33 AM
Pedro did pitch very well, its a shame we couldn't get him the win. Surely enough, he has the numbers to get into the HOF, no?

Beyond lock.

Dark Donnie
10-30-2009, 12:34 AM
Pedro did pitch very well, its a shame we couldn't get him the win. Surely enough, he has the numbers to get into the HOF, no?

For sure...best pitcher of this generation. 3 Cy Youngs should be enough.

jetsfan28
10-30-2009, 12:34 AM
Pedro did pitch very well, its a shame we couldn't get him the win. Surely enough, he has the numbers to get into the HOF, no?

Pedro is a pretty obvious first ballot choice to me, he dominated a very tough era to dominate. If he isn't some people should not be allowed to vote anymore.

GottaBelieve
10-30-2009, 12:34 AM
Beyond lock.

Best pitcher of his era IMO.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 12:40 AM
Ok the excuse of him being 38 doesn't uphold. That makes no difference really. The numbers aren't going to skew just for a 38 year old. Yes, he was very good. I'm not taking anything away from him. But to say he was amazing when the score could have easily been 5-1 on him. Teixiera up, bases loaded, 1 outs with the runners on 2nd and 3rd being his runs, if the Howard non catch was called right. And don't blame it on any other calls, because that has nothing to do with this conversation. Again, he did very well for a guy 6 Years removed from relying on his unbelievable fastball. Burnett was just better, he was About Lee good, not as good as lee, but close

and about him being in the HOF I think it's as automatic as jeter and Mariano. He has the best single season from any pitcher ever IMO in either 98 or 99

Dark Donnie
10-30-2009, 12:46 AM
Ok the excuse of him being 38 doesn't uphold. That makes no difference really. The numbers aren't going to skew just for a 38 year old. Yes, he was very good. I'm not taking anything away from him. But to say he was amazing when the score could have easily been 5-1 on him. Teixiera up, bases loaded, 1 outs with the runners on 2nd and 3rd being his runs, if the Howard non catch was called right. And don't blame it on any other calls, because that has nothing to do with this conversation. Again, he did very well for a guy 6 Years removed from relying on his unbelievable fastball. Burnett was just better, he was About Lee good, not as good as lee, but close

and about him being in the HOF I think it's as automatic as jeter and Mariano. He has the best single season from any pitcher ever IMO in either 98 or 99
Why must you bring The Yankees into this thread?

Also saying it could easily be 5-1 is a joke.

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 12:54 AM
Best pitcher of his era IMO.

Pedro is my all time favorite baseball player. literally the reason i became a baseball fan in 1999. but Randy Johson was also super dominant.

i dont think either of them did riods. but who knows.

I give it a tie b/w Pedro and Johnson.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 12:54 AM
Why bring the Yankees? Maybe because that's who he faced thought that was a good enough reason lol.

And why is it a joke, he gave up 3 runs, and if the call was made correctly, the Yankees had 2 batters to get a single to score 2 runs which would make it 5-1. So why is it a joke? It still would have been a great outing with that inning being the only bad inning. It's all moot because the umps unsurprisingly missed the call. But it's like saying the phillies could have made it 3-3 if the umps called utley safe, which he was, and Howard got up and hit a HR. The Yankees making it 5-1 was more likely, but you get the point

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 12:55 AM
Ok the excuse of him being 38 doesn't uphold. That makes no difference really. The numbers aren't going to skew just for a 38 year old. Yes, he was very good. I'm not taking anything away from him. But to say he was amazing when the score could have easily been 5-1 on him. Teixiera up, bases loaded, 1 outs with the runners on 2nd and 3rd being his runs, if the Howard non catch was called right. And don't blame it on any other calls, because that has nothing to do with this conversation. Again, he did very well for a guy 6 Years removed from relying on his unbelievable fastball. Burnett was just better, he was About Lee good, not as good as lee, but close

and about him being in the HOF I think it's as automatic as jeter and Mariano. He has the best single season from any pitcher ever IMO in either 98 or 99

at the height of the steriod era. its really unbelievable. hes one gifted player. thats for sure.

man i wish Boston brought him back.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 12:55 AM
Pedro is my all time favorite baseball player. literally the reason i became a baseball fan in 1999. but Randy Johson was also super dominant.

i dont think either of them did riods. but who knows.

I give it a tie b/w Pedro and Johnson.

Johnson was great, he has 300 wins, but if I had a choice, it's Pedro everyday from 97-2003

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 12:57 AM
Why bring the Yankees? Maybe because that's who he faced thought that was a good enough reason lol.

And why is it a joke, he gave up 3 runs, and if the call was made correctly, the Yankees had 2 batters to get a single to score 2 runs which would make it 5-1. So why is it a joke? It still would have been a great outing with that inning being the only bad inning. It's all moot because the umps unsurprisingly missed the call. But it's like saying the phillies could have made it 3-3 if the umps called utley safe, which he was, and Howard got up and hit a HR. The Yankees making it 5-1 was more likely, but you get the point

lets not play the "if" game. we all know Pedro is not good, even in his prime after 100 pitches. yet managers still havent figured it out. even at age 38.

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 12:58 AM
Johnson was great, he has 300 wins, but if I had a choice, it's Pedro everyday from 97-2003

not to mention a 20K game. u cant underestimate that. i cant wait til we have pitchers who can do that again.

NYY NYJ NYK
10-30-2009, 12:59 AM
After watching Pedro today. I am really happy the Red Sox didn't sign him.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 12:59 AM
at the height of the steriod era. its really unbelievable. hes one gifted player. thats for sure.

man i wish Boston brought him back.

This season? Trust me, no you don't. Tonight he did well but him and smoltz are one in the same. They need to be in the NL. They don't have the stuff to be dominant every fifth day when 5 of the 7 best offenses reside in the AL, 2 of which the red sox face 18 times each. Brad penny struggled in the AL, went to the giants and was brad penny of old

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 01:04 AM
This season? Trust me, no you don't. Tonight he did well but him and smoltz are one in the same. They need to be in the NL. They don't have the stuff to be dominant every fifth day when 5 of the 7 best offenses reside in the AL, 2 of which the red sox face 18 times each. Brad penny struggled in the AL, went to the giants and was brad penny of old

well like i said, im a Pedro fanboy. admittedly. so for me, it would have been a whole more entertaining and maybe he could have infused some life into the lifeless team.

my second point is, no Pedro and Smoltz are not the same. Pedro has 100% redifined himself as a pitcher. he is no longer a flamethrower. he is a thinker and location master.

Smoltz failed to make this adjustment.

waffles
10-30-2009, 01:06 AM
as much as i want to hate him, i respect him. he's such a fierce competitor and had one of the greatest stretches of pitching dominance ever.

not to mention he's a great interview.. i forgot about that since he's been in exile for two years.

king4day
10-30-2009, 01:09 AM
Why must you bring The Yankees into this thread?
Also saying it could easily be 5-1 is a joke.

Because the thread creator did as well, talking about how he did in tonights game.

GoatMilk
10-30-2009, 01:15 AM
too bad he got the loss, but yeah awesome game

i was loving it.

Dark Donnie
10-30-2009, 01:16 AM
Because the thread creator did as well, talking about how he did in tonights game.

My comment was in reference to him saying something about Mariano and Jeter.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 01:21 AM
It was inregards to "locks" for the HOF. "locks" aren't really a-plenty in this league right now. And I'm talking as close to 100% yes votes as you can get. Smoltz will get in, but isn't a lock for the first go around. Who else is there that's still playing? Johnson? And don't say pujols or anyone that could have career ending injuries tomorrow and not have the numbers right now. Obviously hypothetical just making the point. I'm talking players that if they retired tomorrow would be in. There's only a handful. And why I brought up Mo and jeter? Because I don't remember rules against it

infernoscurse
10-30-2009, 01:57 AM
to me pedro is a lock to the HOF, that guys been out of this world

he pitched a great game tonight too

penuch
10-30-2009, 03:20 AM
He pitched well and kept the Phillies in the game.... You guys really couldn't of asked for much more. You were just missing your offense tonight that's all.

Stamina
10-30-2009, 03:35 AM
Pedro's pitching last night was overshadowed by that god aweful plaid sports jacket he wore during the post game interview. If someone can find a pic that would be great!

penuch
10-30-2009, 03:59 AM
http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=291029110

Pedros postgame interview is on there.

bagwell368
10-30-2009, 06:30 AM
Pedro did pitch very well, its a shame we couldn't get him the win. Surely enough, he has the numbers to get into the HOF, no?

Between '97 and '05 inclusive, Pedro put up the greatest run in the history of MLB pitching. Led in ERA+ five times, WHIP six times, H/9 five times, K's 3 times, 3 Cy's. Koufax's 5 year run would be the only other challenge.

By raw numbers/awards in his career he's about 23rd all time (Koufax is about 43rd), by rate stats only Pedro is the best (Koufax next best in parens):

W-L% 6th (24th)
H/9 - 4th (2nd)
K/9 - 3rd (6th)
K/BB - 3rd (41st)
WHIP - 3rd (23rd)
ERA+ - 1st (37th)

Best I ever saw, and I saw Koufax a few times.

deuces
10-30-2009, 06:52 AM
to bad it was in yankee stadium, i know tex's homerune wouldn't of been one in a regular stadium, don't know about matsui's

Hustla23
10-30-2009, 07:40 AM
to bad it was in yankee stadium, i know tex's homerune wouldn't of been one in a regular stadium, don't know about matsui's
I'm pretty sure a ball hit 414 feet would make it out in most parks.

But back to the thread,

yeah yeah Pedro is great, but where was he the last 3 years ? :mad:

:cry:

Rylinkus
10-30-2009, 08:49 AM
Best I ever saw, and I saw Koufax a few times.


I agree. Even though he was on a rival team and I cringed when he pitched against us, Pedro was special. And I always enjoyed watching him pitch. You don't get to see guys like him often and I hope people appreciate it.

Jetsguy
10-30-2009, 09:15 AM
to bad it was in yankee stadium, i know tex's homerune wouldn't of been one in a regular stadium, don't know about matsui's

stupid and off topic...sweet! Tex hit that ball a long way

Dark Donnie
10-30-2009, 09:21 AM
That Tex HR would have been out of any park. I was watching the highlights on MLB Network and the pitch was pretty good....down and away. Tex was just able to extend on it. Great piece of hitting.

The Schmooze
10-30-2009, 09:23 AM
Ive always said that aside from the obvious, Pedro is one of the best ever b/c once he lost his high 90s fastball, he re-invented himself and he was still dominant

Dark Donnie
10-30-2009, 09:28 AM
They had some stat on MLB Network last night....his pitches hit 17 different velocities or something like that.

Mr Grim
10-30-2009, 09:31 AM
Has everyone forgot he did zilch on the mets? Granted he's been a terrific pitcher for the majority of his career, he did nothing the last 3 years. How many games did he start this year?

Gunzito22
10-30-2009, 09:32 AM
Pedro exceeded EVERYBODYS expectations last night, I expected the Yankees (A-Rod and Jeter) especially to tee up on him... he did his thing.

Joe Buck almost blew him, I was relatively convinced by the 263rd time I heard about how "Wiley", "deceptive" and "intelligent" he is, that he really should have gotten Obama's Nobel Prize. Or at least an honorary Doctorate Degree from Stanford...

and yes, an absolute first ballot LOCK for the HOF (along with the Unit) IF (huge if, not making accusations at all) his name does not get dragged into any sort of Steriods accusation.

The Schmooze
10-30-2009, 09:43 AM
Has everyone forgot he did zilch on the mets? Granted he's been a terrific pitcher for the majority of his career, he did nothing the last 3 years. How many games did he start this year?

When he was healthy, he pitched well for the Mets. His first year he should have won 20 games, but the Mets didnt have a bullpen and blew alot of his starts

bagwell368
10-30-2009, 09:52 AM
Has everyone forgot he did zilch on the mets? Granted he's been a terrific pitcher for the majority of his career, he did nothing the last 3 years. How many games did he start this year?

Sorry Mets fan, but he had a pretty fine year in 2005. Small aging pitchers with huge resumes are no promise of future performance.

The Schmooze
10-30-2009, 10:04 AM
Sorry Mets fan, but he had a pretty fine year in 2005. Small aging pitchers with huge resumes are no promise of future performance.

No need to apologize, I'm perfectly happy with the Pedro signing, b/c it went further than just performance alone. Getting Pedro was Step 1 into rebuilding the franchise into one that was serious about contending. If Pedro wasnt signed, chances are Beltran wouldnt have been...along with many international prospects

NYK|NYY
10-30-2009, 10:16 AM
Pedro is 100% right, if he was on the Yanks he would be a god.

MattyG
10-30-2009, 10:32 AM
-

tonyd3b54
10-30-2009, 10:35 AM
this is why he is my childhood hero...

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 11:34 AM
to bad it was in yankee stadium, i know tex's homerune wouldn't of been one in a regular stadium, don't know about matsui's

teixeira's is a legit HR. matsui's? not a chance. in fenway, thats a harmless fly ball.

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:06 PM
Mets fans have too be pissed. Great game, he's not that old, I think Pettite is older.

Tragedy
10-30-2009, 12:07 PM
too bad he took the last 2 and a half years off when he was a Met.
:laugh:

One of my all time favorite players. It was such a joy to watch him pitch all those amazing years in Boston, so it was a great throwback to see him pitch like that last night. Just wish he could have gotten a W.

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:11 PM
this is why he is my childhood hero...

While Pedro is a all-time great, you need a better hero. Try a teacher or a relative. Somebody that makes a difference in your life not throws at people's heads:)

The Schmooze
10-30-2009, 12:12 PM
Mets fans have too be pissed. Great game, he's not that old, I think Pettite is older.

see avi

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:13 PM
Somebody closed the AJ thread and this one is on page 5. Classic! The AJ thread was even created by a Phillies fan, this one by a Sox fan.

ndfightirish12
10-30-2009, 12:15 PM
i was at the game last night and pedro did pitch well..but i have to say i loved getting to chant whos your daddy to him!!.. he is a great pitcher and i respect him but i gotta say it felt great seeing tex and matsui go deep off him...best time ive ever had at a yankee game

ndfightirish12
10-30-2009, 12:19 PM
Mets fans have too be pissed. Great game, he's not that old, I think Pettite is older.

pettite is a great post season pitcher and hes better than pedro will ever be in the post season..plus andy is more of a respectable guy and i cant think of anyone who hates him cuz there is no reason to hate him

sixer04fan
10-30-2009, 12:23 PM
Whose your daddy?

Seriously though he out-pitched my expectations definitely. That Hideki HR was a great pitch I thought too... No idea how he turned on that low outside breaking ball to put in into the RF bleachers.

sixer04fan
10-30-2009, 12:23 PM
pettite is a great post season pitcher and hes better than pedro will ever be in the post season..plus andy is more of a respectable guy and i cant think of anyone who hates him cuz there is no reason to hate him

Besides the fact that he did steroids?

ndfightirish12
10-30-2009, 12:29 PM
he admitted to it and took what ever they gave him like a man...i admitt ya it was a stupid move but i liked the way he handled himself..i still think hes a great guy and like pedro he can still deal at an older age

ndfightirish12
10-30-2009, 12:31 PM
pedro did throw well last night but to say hes unreal?? no hes not hes a good pitcher but saying hes absolutly amazing is a huge overstatment

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:31 PM
Besides the fact that he did steroids?

HGH, but yeah, there is always that. HGH is one of those things that we will never get a positive test for and you can almost assume that a great deal of players who did it will never be revealed. But that doesn't make it right.

Tragedy
10-30-2009, 12:33 PM
pedro did throw well last night but to say hes unreal?? no hes not hes a good pitcher but saying hes absolutly amazing is a huge overstatment
Wait, in what regards?

I mean, for Pedro to go out against the Yankees and do what he did..Yeah..That's unreal.

Pedro career wise...That's unreal.

Pedro at this stage of his career? He's not amazing, and he's not unreal.

Hopefully you mean the latter, because the guy had one of the greatest stretches of pitching we'll ever see.

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:33 PM
Ibanez doesn't make that catch and the tenor of the game is completely different. It's 1-1 with Cano on third and 1 out. Same thing with A-Rod misssing the play on stairs. What was impressive was all the swings and misses, great job changing speeds!

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:39 PM
Anyone who thinks Pedro wasn't one of the 3 best pitchers of our generation (Clemens and Johnson) needs to have their heads examined. If the Red-Sox ever scored any runs for him he could have won 25 games in a season.

Tragedy
10-30-2009, 12:42 PM
Anyone who thinks Pedro wasn't one of the 3 best pitchers of our generation (Clemens and Johnson) needs to have their heads examined. If the Red-Sox ever scored any runs for him he could have won 25 games in a season.
Anyone that forgets to add Maddux needs to have their heads examined! I hope you just forget his name.

ndfightirish12
10-30-2009, 12:44 PM
im not saying hes bad but what about aj burnett shutting down the phills last night noone has anything to say about that?? his first seires start and him and pedro matched eatcherother pitch for pitch but in the end aj was alittle better...im suprised noone has said anything about him yet

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:56 PM
Anyone that forgets to add Maddux needs to have their heads examined! I hope you just forget his name.

Good catch. ok 4. (National leaguers often skip my mind)

donnie23
10-30-2009, 12:58 PM
im not saying hes bad but what about aj burnett shutting down the phills last night noone has anything to say about that?? his first seires start and him and pedro matched eatcherother pitch for pitch but in the end aj was alittle better...im suprised noone has said anything about him yet

A Philles fan created one but it was closed. Don't complain or the bully patrol will come out and say "boo hoo, there goes another Yankee fan claiming anti-yankee bias".

RaiderDawg
10-30-2009, 01:02 PM
thats like saying ''on your shadow, falling to me, dun dun dadundundund''

BTownTeamsRKing
10-30-2009, 01:14 PM
im not saying hes bad but what about aj burnett shutting down the phills last night noone has anything to say about that?? his first seires start and him and pedro matched eatcherother pitch for pitch but in the end aj was alittle better...im suprised noone has said anything about him yet

AJ is not a living legend. Pedro is.

AJ is in his prime. he is supposed to pitch very well, which he did.

Pedro is 6 years out of his prime and facing the toughest line up baseball has seen in a decade at least and continuously fooled them with 17 different speeds, great location, and movement.

thats why no one is very impressed with AJ's performance. it was solid. he was unhittable, but he isn't the legend and personality that Pedro is.

PDT4LIFE
10-30-2009, 01:25 PM
Ok the excuse of him being 38 doesn't uphold. That makes no difference really. The numbers aren't going to skew just for a 38 year old. Yes, he was very good. I'm not taking anything away from him. But to say he was amazing when the score could have easily been 5-1 on him. Teixiera up, bases loaded, 1 outs with the runners on 2nd and 3rd being his runs, if the Howard non catch was called right. And don't blame it on any other calls, because that has nothing to do with this conversation. Again, he did very well for a guy 6 Years removed from relying on his unbelievable fastball. Burnett was just better, he was About Lee good, not as good as lee, but close

and about him being in the HOF I think it's as automatic as jeter and Mariano. He has the best single season from any pitcher ever IMO in either 98 or 99

Could, should almost dont apply to baseball. If I could have shot like Peter North Id be a porn star. Whats your point?

iggypop123
10-30-2009, 01:34 PM
the two years maddux had with era around 1 something is just ridiculous.

donnie23
10-30-2009, 01:58 PM
AJ is not a living legend. Pedro is.

AJ is in his prime. he is supposed to pitch very well, which he did.

Pedro is 6 years out of his prime and facing the toughest line up baseball has seen in a decade at least and continuously fooled them with 17 different speeds, great location, and movement.

thats why no one is very impressed with AJ's performance. it was solid. he was unhittable, but he isn't the legend and personality that Pedro is.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Funny, I didn't see any Andy Pettitte threads after game 6 vs LAA.

colinskik
10-30-2009, 02:07 PM
AJ is not a living legend. Pedro is.

AJ is in his prime. he is supposed to pitch very well, which he did.

Pedro is 6 years out of his prime and facing the toughest line up baseball has seen in a decade at least and continuously fooled them with 17 different speeds, great location, and movement.

thats why no one is very impressed with AJ's performance. it was solid. he was unhittable, but he isn't the legend and personality that Pedro is.
This is laughable ... so because a pitcher is in his prime he's supposed to unhittable everytime out? I was impressed with AJ's performance last night, and you weren't because you're a Boston hater. I was also impressed with Pedro's performance, but mainly because I figured he would blow.

AJ pitched an amazing game, better than Pedro. Pedro had a good game as well, but if that's a game during the season, no one's calling it "unreal." He pitched well, but not well enough.

I had the opportunity to watch Pedro pitch for the Mets more times than I would like to admit, and during the end of his time there he really stunk the place up. He's not a starting pitcher anymore who can go every fifth game. He's a big game pitcher who can do what he's done this year. And for that he should not be getting a lucrative contract.

During his prime Pedro was definitely one of the top pitchers, although watching him as a Yankees fan, he never really frightened me to no end since our teams usually handled him fairly well.

Twitchy
10-30-2009, 02:10 PM
During his prime Pedro was definitely one of the top pitchers, although watching him as a Yankees fan, he never really frightened me to no end since our teams usually handled him fairly well.

The Yankees didn't "handle him well".

In 32 career starts vs NYY (regular season) he was 11-11 in 216 Innings with 261 K to 63 BB, a 3.20 ERA and a 1.08 WHIP. Pretty sure anybody who puts those kind of numbers up against the Yankees is the one doing the pwning, and not the other way around.

colinskik
10-30-2009, 02:20 PM
I was watching those games, and let me tell you, he didn't dominate the Yankees like he did the rest of the league. Why do you think he said the Yankees were his daddy?

And if you're going to quote me at least quote me directly.

mdlr52192
10-30-2009, 02:25 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Funny, I didn't see any Andy Pettitte threads after game 6 vs LAA.

Prolly cuz Pedro is Pedro and is more heavily covered in the media....Anywho, what Pedro did was quite outstanding when you look at it. He was able to strike out 8 over 6 innings when he really hasn't been pitching professionally for 2 and a half yrs, then signs with PHI and pitches foro them for not even a full season, and he comes in and like I mentioned above struck out 8 hitters....not just any hitters but the best damn lineup in the MLB (as much as I hate to say it) and he did it with his fastball hitting a whopping 87 MPH!!! Burnett did better than expected but he has electrifying stuff. Pedro does too but he is getting old and as you can see he has lost the zip on the fastball. I expected the Yankees to be his freakin Daddy not his older brother...but he and Burnett shocked me last night and I give props to them both.

NYK|NYY
10-30-2009, 03:19 PM
Why is everyone so bitter? Pedro was awesome considering where he is in his career, give him his props and move on. Everyone knows AJ was fantastic no ones taking anything away from his start.

MelanconMadness
10-30-2009, 03:25 PM
Man if I had enough fingers and toes to count all of the 6 inning 3 er 6 hits 2 walks 8 k game. And his age really means nothing or the point of career he's in, because if you don't have what it takes to be there, then it's your coaches fault for playing you

1903
10-30-2009, 05:59 PM
Pedro is still great as long as he gets the right amount of rest. I don't think he has it in him to start 30-35 games a season and put in the performance we saw last night.

Liney3506
10-30-2009, 11:47 PM
Pedro's been nothing short of fantastic for us. He doesn't need his old 95 MPH fastball to dominate, if he can locate and change speeds, which he's done consistently. Props to Burnett, who I thought would be the one to get shelled, since he was able to throw first pitch strikes and throw that curveball of his. Bravo to both guys.

Nymfan87
10-31-2009, 12:18 AM
Best pitcher of his era IMO.

I'm going to go on the record as saying that in his prime, he was better than any pitcher, ever. In 2000, his WHIP was 0.737. I'm sorry, but that's just insane. I dare anyone to try to find a pitcher who had a better stretch of pitching than Pedro did from 1997-2003.

dbow1920
10-31-2009, 12:45 AM
I ****ing love Pedro...Hes my 3rd favorite Phillie behind Hamels, and Howard

koldjerky
10-31-2009, 01:07 AM
A good majority of them felt their bats failed on Wednesday rather than saying Cliff Lee dominated, I'd have to agree with you.

koldjerky
10-31-2009, 01:12 AM
AJ is not a living legend. Pedro is.

AJ is in his prime. he is supposed to pitch very well, which he did.

Pedro is 6 years out of his prime and facing the toughest line up baseball has seen in a decade at least and continuously fooled them with 17 different speeds, great location, and movement.

thats why no one is very impressed with AJ's performance. it was solid. he was unhittable, but he isn't the legend and personality that Pedro is.

Pedro pitched a solid game, above solid actually, but that gives no reason to discredit AJ's game. You can't say he was in his prime so he was expected to pitch well. The guy is Jeckyl and Hyde out there, he's like a box of chocolates. Pedro is the legend, he pitched well but I can't easily be a hypocrite and glorify Lee's performance on Wednesday while downplaying AJ's on Thursday.

Jamiecballer
10-31-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm going to go on the record as saying that in his prime, he was better than any pitcher, ever. In 2000, his WHIP was 0.737. I'm sorry, but that's just insane. I dare anyone to try to find a pitcher who had a better stretch of pitching than Pedro did from 1997-2003.

Pedro has had a remarkable career, but the answer to your question is Walter Johnson (from beginning to end)

Nymfan87
10-31-2009, 12:53 PM
Pedro has had a remarkable career, but the answer to your question is Walter Johnson (from beginning to end)

Except he pitched in an era with terrible hitting, unlike Pedro who was at his best in probably the best hitting era ever. On a side note, his WHIP was never lower than Pedro's career best, which just goes to show you how amazing Pedro was.

Mr. Magoo
10-31-2009, 02:10 PM
While he never had a single season WHIP quite that low, Sandy Koufax from 1962-1966 was possibly the most dominant pitcher ever...with an ERA barely over 2, and a WHIP of around .92, while averaging 275 innings per season for that period before blowing out his arm at 30. Pedro did have a slightly longer run though, and is still my favorite pitcher in the last 10 years, and has been one of the best all time.

Freaks like Koufax and Pedro come along once in a generation...if even that often.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-31-2009, 02:45 PM
This is laughable ... so because a pitcher is in his prime he's supposed to unhittable everytime out? I was impressed with AJ's performance last night, and you weren't because you're a Boston hater. I was also impressed with Pedro's performance, but mainly because I figured he would blow.

AJ pitched an amazing game, better than Pedro. Pedro had a good game as well, but if that's a game during the season, no one's calling it "unreal." He pitched well, but not well enough.

I had the opportunity to watch Pedro pitch for the Mets more times than I would like to admit, and during the end of his time there he really stunk the place up. He's not a starting pitcher anymore who can go every fifth game. He's a big game pitcher who can do what he's done this year. And for that he should not be getting a lucrative contract.

During his prime Pedro was definitely one of the top pitchers, although watching him as a Yankees fan, he never really frightened me to no end since our teams usually handled him fairly well.

First of all, you do realize Pedro has a career 3.20 ERA with a 1.08 WHIP against the Yanks. I didn't know thats "handling someone". But thanks for letting me know.

Let me ask you, did the Yanks "handle" him when he pitched that 17 strikeout, 1 hit game in Yankee stadium? Or how about when he pitched in game 3 of the 1999 ALCS and struck out 12, while giving up 2 hits and pitching 7 scoreless innings?

Also, I don't know if you noticed but the Yankees only started "handling him" later after he had been with the Sox for 4-5 years and the Yankees had seen him a billion times.

Pedro's ERA against the Yanks in 1999 was 1.69, in 2000, it was 2.10 and in 2001 it was 2.37. 99 and 2000 were easily his most dominant seasons overall.

After that, they started to hit him better but hardly handled him. It was only in 2004, where the Yanks finally battered him around but that was after 5 seasons of repeatedly seeing him.

The point is after repeatedly seeing the same pitcher over and over, eventually a team will start to do better against him.

Ask yourself why do you think out of all the teams in MLB, Mo has his worst stats against the Red Sox? (Do you remember the fact that Mo got CHEERED at one point in Fenway)

But does all this mean as a Sox fan I'm not frightened to see him? Hell no.

Clearly with your statement, you've proved either you have a horrible memory or you became a Yankee fan around 2003 (which sucks for you seeing as how they had that great run from 96-2000). I would lean toward the latter since you indicated Pedro as one of the "top pitchers" during his prime. Seeing as how he was not ONE of the top pitchers, but easily the BEST pitcher hands down. There wasn't really any debate and if you don't believe me look at his stats in 99 and 2000. Also, his ERA+ in 2000 was a ridiculous 291. His 99-2000 seasons were easily the best 2 year run of any pitcher to ever pitch the game.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-31-2009, 02:51 PM
Pedro is still great as long as he gets the right amount of rest. I don't think he has it in him to start 30-35 games a season and put in the performance we saw last night.

Thats definitely a fair assessment. Perhaps if he did what clemens did a couple years ago, and pitched the 2nd half only, he might be a good option.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-31-2009, 02:57 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/11/sports/baseball-1-hit-17-strikeouts-no-way-for-the-yankees.html

Great memory for sox fans.

FlakeyFool
10-31-2009, 03:03 PM
I hope philly wins the WS just so pedro can go out on top.

YankeeFan28
10-31-2009, 03:20 PM
First of all, you do realize Pedro has a career 3.20 ERA with a 1.08 WHIP against the Yanks. I didn't know thats "handling someone". But thanks for letting me know.

Let me ask you, did the Yanks "handle" him when he pitched that 17 strikeout, 1 hit game in Yankee stadium? Or how about when he pitched in game 3 of the 1999 ALCS and struck out 12, while giving up 2 hits and pitching 7 scoreless innings?

Also, I don't know if you noticed but the Yankees only started "handling him" later after he had been with the Sox for 4-5 years and the Yankees had seen him a billion times.

Pedro's ERA against the Yanks in 1999 was 1.69, in 2000, it was 2.10 and in 2001 it was 2.37. 99 and 2000 were easily his most dominant seasons overall.

After that, they started to hit him better but hardly handled him. It was only in 2004, where the Yanks finally battered him around but that was after 5 seasons of repeatedly seeing him.

The point is after repeatedly seeing the same pitcher over and over, eventually a team will start to do better against him.

Ask yourself why do you think out of all the teams in MLB, Mo has his worst stats against the Red Sox? (Do you remember the fact that Mo got CHEERED at one point in Fenway)

But does all this mean as a Sox fan I'm not frightened to see him? Hell no.

Clearly with your statement, you've proved either you have a horrible memory or you became a Yankee fan around 2003 (which sucks for you seeing as how they had that great run from 96-2000). I would lean toward the latter since you indicated Pedro as one of the "top pitchers" during his prime. Seeing as how he was not ONE of the top pitchers, but easily the BEST pitcher hands down. There wasn't really any debate and if you don't believe me look at his stats in 99 and 2000. Also, his ERA+ in 2000 was a ridiculous 291. His 99-2000 seasons were easily the best 2 year run of any pitcher to ever pitch the game.

and yet, he went 11-11 in 32 games started.

He's pitched great against the Yankees over his career. But they still found a way to beat him or not lose to him more often then he's beat them. So while he pitched remarkably, they certainly handled him to a degree where he didn't win.

WilymoPena
10-31-2009, 03:25 PM
He's the best player ever to play in Yankee stadium. Clearly the most influental ever to play there.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-31-2009, 04:45 PM
and yet, he went 11-11 in 32 games started.

He's pitched great against the Yankees over his career. But they still found a way to beat him or not lose to him more often then he's beat them. So while he pitched remarkably, they certainly handled him to a degree where he didn't win.

That's fair, I suppose. If you're talking about handling him to the degree where he didn't always get the win against the Yanks, thats true. Although, I'm sure a lot of those 11 wins for the Yankees came later on in his career with the Sox. Also, wins aren't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher. I'm sure a lot of those 11 wins the yanks have are games in which he lost low-scoring affairs to Pettite, Clemens, etc.

But by no means did he pitch badly against the Yanks (until 04). That other poster was implying he pitched poorly which is simply not true unless you're just going to look at 2004.

Let me ask you this, as a yankee fan, were you nervous when Pedro pitched against you? Don't just consider 2003-2004 when you guys started figuring him out. Think back to 99-2000 as well.

YankeeFan28
10-31-2009, 04:52 PM
That's fair, I suppose. If you're talking about handling him to the degree where he didn't always get the win against the Yanks, thats true. Although, I'm sure a lot of those 11 wins for the Yankees came later on in his career with the Sox. Also, wins aren't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher. I'm sure a lot of those 11 wins the yanks have are games in which he lost low-scoring affairs to Pettite, Clemens, etc.

But by no means did he pitch badly against the Yanks (until 04). That other poster was implying he pitched poorly which is simply not true unless you're just going to look at 2004.

Let me ask you this, as a yankee fan, were you nervous when Pedro pitched against you? Don't just consider 2003-2004 when you guys started figuring him out. Think back to 99-2000 as well.
I know wins aren't a good way to judge a pitcher. But at the end of the day, the Yankees still found ways to win despite Pedro pitching very well against the Yankees. There's no denying his legacy. Sure he did make me uneasy, but at the same time, the Yankees had a very patient lineup.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-31-2009, 05:00 PM
I know wins aren't a good way to judge a pitcher. But at the end of the day, the Yankees still found ways to win despite Pedro pitching very well against the Yankees. There's no denying his legacy. Sure he did make me uneasy, but at the same time, the Yankees had a very patient lineup.

But you can't fault the Red Sox lineup for not scoring for him or his bullpen for blowing games in which he pitched. And that happened a lot to him, especially in 2000. Consider he had a 1.74 ERA and only 18 wins. Thats mind boggling if you really think about it.

You did admit that he made you uneasy, I don't see how he couldn't. I know when Mo's on the mound he makes me uneasy, despite our relative success against him. Yes, the Yanks had a patient lineup which helped to drive up his pitch count and they'd attack the Sox bullpen afterward, but again, you can't really fault Pedro for what the rest of his team did.

PatsSoxKnicks
10-31-2009, 05:06 PM
By the way, why in your sig do you have a yankees fan with a paper bag over his head?

I mean yanks fans haven't exactly had to deal with a lack of success........

Twitchy
10-31-2009, 05:18 PM
I know wins aren't a good way to judge a pitcher.

You were doing so well up to here...


But at the end of the day, the Yankees still found ways to win despite Pedro pitching very well against the Yankees. There's no denying his legacy. Sure he did make me uneasy, but at the same time, the Yankees had a very patient lineup.

The Yankees lineup didn't beat Pedro. They barely scored more than 3 runs per 9 innings over a 200 inning sample size. This is a team that led, or was near the league lead in runs scored every year. I'm sure they averaged 5-6 runs a game, and they were held to 3. You can't expect much more out of a pitcher than that.

This is why win/loss record doesn't tell the whole story. It's like blaming Clemens for not winning more games in 05 when he had a 1.85 ERA (13-8 record). You can't fault the pitcher in these cases.

Mr. October
10-31-2009, 06:00 PM
You were doing so well up to here...



The Yankees lineup didn't beat Pedro. They barely scored more than 3 runs per 9 innings over a 200 inning sample size. This is a team that led, or was near the league lead in runs scored every year. I'm sure they averaged 5-6 runs a game, and they were held to 3. You can't expect much more out of a pitcher than that.

This is why win/loss record doesn't tell the whole story. It's like blaming Clemens for not winning more games in 05 when he had a 1.85 ERA (13-8 record). You can't fault the pitcher in these cases.

You can't fault him, but it doesn't mean he outpitched the Yankees pitcher in those 11 losses.

Twitchy
10-31-2009, 06:02 PM
You can't fault him, but it doesn't mean he outpitched the Yankees pitcher in those 11 losses.

Whether or not that's true, it's irrelevant to the fact that Pedro did an exceptional job against the Yankees. Which is the point I've been trying to get across. You can't ask for more out of a pitcher than to limit the Yanks to 3 runs or less, which is pretty much what he did for more than 200 innings.

Mr. October
10-31-2009, 06:09 PM
Whether or not that's true, it's irrelevant to the fact that Pedro did an exceptional job against the Yankees. Which is the point I've been trying to get across. You can't ask for more out of a pitcher than to limit the Yanks to 3 runs or less, which is pretty much what he did for more than 200 innings.

I was not disproving your point, but just emphasizing the fact that alot of losses occur due to facing a strong oppossing pitcher. What's impressive is how consistent he was in stopping the Yankees, even though they went through a few different aces during that time period. To face a team for a long period of time and still stop them is pretty god.

YankeeFan28
10-31-2009, 06:36 PM
You were doing so well up to here...



The Yankees lineup didn't beat Pedro. They barely scored more than 3 runs per 9 innings over a 200 inning sample size. This is a team that led, or was near the league lead in runs scored every year. I'm sure they averaged 5-6 runs a game, and they were held to 3. You can't expect much more out of a pitcher than that.

This is why win/loss record doesn't tell the whole story. It's like blaming Clemens for not winning more games in 05 when he had a 1.85 ERA (13-8 record). You can't fault the pitcher in these cases.

All I was saying is Pedro pitched remarkably very well. But the Yankees still found ways to win in games he's pitched. It's nothing against him.

misterd
11-01-2009, 12:27 AM
While he never had a single season WHIP quite that low, Sandy Koufax from 1962-1966 was possibly the most dominant pitcher ever...with an ERA barely over 2, and a WHIP of around .92, while averaging 275 innings per season for that period before blowing out his arm at 30. Pedro did have a slightly longer run though, and is still my favorite pitcher in the last 10 years, and has been one of the best all time.

Freaks like Koufax and Pedro come along once in a generation...if even that often.

I'll take Pedro, Johnson and Kofax for my rotation, thanks, with a side order of Maddux and Paige.

kyubi256
11-01-2009, 05:59 PM
I love Pedro as a player and he was one of my favorite Mets when he played here...

glad he still "has it"

colinskik
11-02-2009, 05:48 AM
That's fair, I suppose. If you're talking about handling him to the degree where he didn't always get the win against the Yanks, thats true. Although, I'm sure a lot of those 11 wins for the Yankees came later on in his career with the Sox. Also, wins aren't exactly the best way to judge a pitcher. I'm sure a lot of those 11 wins the yanks have are games in which he lost low-scoring affairs to Pettite, Clemens, etc.

But by no means did he pitch badly against the Yanks (until 04). That other poster was implying he pitched poorly which is simply not true unless you're just going to look at 2004.

Let me ask you this, as a yankee fan, were you nervous when Pedro pitched against you? Don't just consider 2003-2004 when you guys started figuring him out. Think back to 99-2000 as well.
"That other poster" here. Funny how you were able to gather that from my saying the Yankees "handled him fairly well."

Look, with a record of 11-11 against the Yankees, it's not wrong to say that. It could also be said that Pedro handled the Yankees fairly well. It wasn't an open and shut case either way, and yes, maybe the later performances against the Yankees are more fresh in my memory, but my perspective on the matter is that Pedro didn't scare me as a Yankee fan like some other pitchers did. It seemed the Yankees as a whole more often than not could find a way to play well when Pedro pitched. And this comes from 20+ years of watching the Yankees religiously.

Please find some new irrelevant point you'd like to argue, and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

Tragedy
11-02-2009, 12:49 PM
So you're just pointing out inconsequential details about the subject at hand then?
I do understand the point he's trying to make though. I think those with a brain know that Wins aren't a good indicator of much, but the point was still valid - Pedro did well against the Yankees, but it's not like the Yankees were NEVER able to win games when he was on the mound - They found a way to win many of the times.

So, he was a huge help in going against the Yankees, but the Sox didn't come out of those games winning most of them.