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Pensx3
10-13-2009, 06:22 PM
Well, our season has been over for sometime now, I just wanted to start an offseason thread of any rumors or ideas you guys have heard. Who would you like us to keep? What about free agents, are there any players out there we can afford? What about prospects? Discuss whatever you want that involves the Buccos.

I went to about 10 games this summer, but it was only after the Penguins season was over and before the Steelers training camp started. I just hope this team can be competitive this year...

The floor is yours

Hossa Sucks
10-13-2009, 09:01 PM
As far as trades go, I'd like to see Matt Capps, Ryan Doumit, and Paul Maholm traded while they still have some value. Even if they could get a solid pitching prospect and middle infield prospect I'd be OK with that. Perhaps send Capps and Maholm to Colorodo for Eric Young Jr. I think people around the league still see Capps as having a live arm and big time closer potential. And Evan Meek is clearly the closer of the future in Pittsburgh.

I would like to see the Pirates try to get a power hitter. Even if it is for just one season, or if it's a reclaimation project. Nick Johnson or Jermaine Dye could be possibilities. And call me crazy, but I would not mind seeing the Bucs make a play for Jack Wilson in the offseason. If they could get Jack, then they could move Cendeno to second base, and somewhat stabilize the infield.

If they can get a SS or 2B, then they need to focus on switching Andy Laroche or Neil Walker to 1st base. Either of them would probably be a better defensive option than Jones. And I think that Jones would do better in right field.

Getting a veteran starter like Randy Wolfe to eat some innings and provide some insurance for the young starters would be nice, but I'd be somewhat comfortable with the starting 5 as is.

But all that being said, I think the best way to go might be to try what the Rays and Twins have done and just go with the strength of your best prospects. If that's the case, the Pirates could potentially be very dangerous next year or they could fall flat on their faces. That being said, with what's available this is my probable starting lineup for 2010

1B- Garrett Jones
2B- Delwin Young/Andy Laroche
SS- Ronny Cedeno
3B- Neil Walker/Andy Laroche
C- Jason Jarimillo
RF- Jose Tabata
CF- Andrew McCutchen
LF- Lastings Millege

SP- Ross Olendorf
SP- Zach Duke
SP- Paul Maholm
SP- Craig Morton
SP- Tim Alderson

Closer- Matt Capps
RH setup- Evan Meek
LH setup- Donnie Veal
SP-

Roberto Walker
10-16-2009, 11:32 AM
I wouldn't count on the Bucco's front office making many bold moves this winter. They've got so many question marks now that they blew up the team for minor leaguers they've almost trapped themselves. If everything works right Alvarez, Tabata and Lincoln are mid year call-ups. So what about Jones, Young and LaRoche? Nick Johnson would be an interesting acquisition since his OBP is so high and he can hit second. What about power though? Doumit peaks at 100 games and possibly 15 HR's - that doesn't do much for a team that needs a critical RBI guy. Maholm and Capps for EY, Jr. is a pipedream - it undervalues both Buccos and creates more voids in the already sub mediocre pitching staff. Relief corps are needed bad - Moskos back to a setup man has got to be in the works. Veal's going back to the minors to be an SP. Too many questions to envision these guys winning for a while. Probably best to keep drafting as much talent as possible, then hope that in 3-4 years the mix of rookies and veterans is a winning combo.

cre0530
10-25-2009, 12:06 AM
As far as trades go, I'd like to see Matt Capps, Ryan Doumit, and Paul Maholm traded while they still have some value. Even if they could get a solid pitching prospect and middle infield prospect I'd be OK with that. Perhaps send Capps and Maholm to Colorodo for Eric Young Jr. I think people around the league still see Capps as having a live arm and big time closer potential. And Evan Meek is clearly the closer of the future in Pittsburgh.

I would like to see the Pirates try to get a power hitter. Even if it is for just one season, or if it's a reclaimation project. Nick Johnson or Jermaine Dye could be possibilities. And call me crazy, but I would not mind seeing the Bucs make a play for Jack Wilson in the offseason. If they could get Jack, then they could move Cendeno to second base, and somewhat stabilize the infield.

If they can get a SS or 2B, then they need to focus on switching Andy Laroche or Neil Walker to 1st base. Either of them would probably be a better defensive option than Jones. And I think that Jones would do better in right field.

Getting a veteran starter like Randy Wolfe to eat some innings and provide some insurance for the young starters would be nice, but I'd be somewhat comfortable with the starting 5 as is.

But all that being said, I think the best way to go might be to try what the Rays and Twins have done and just go with the strength of your best prospects. If that's the case, the Pirates could potentially be very dangerous next year or they could fall flat on their faces. That being said, with what's available this is my probable starting lineup for 2010

1B- Garrett Jones
2B- Delwin Young/Andy Laroche
SS- Ronny Cedeno
3B- Neil Walker/Andy Laroche
C- Jason Jarimillo
RF- Jose Tabata
CF- Andrew McCutchen
LF- Lastings Millege

SP- Ross Olendorf
SP- Zach Duke
SP- Paul Maholm
SP- Craig Morton
SP- Tim Alderson

Closer- Matt Capps
RH setup- Evan Meek
LH setup- Donnie Veal
SP-

Jones defense at first isn't bad and would be better if he wasn't moved around so much. No way Alderson makes it this year even if he did well during spring training Huntington will send him back to the minors to retain his rights for another yr. Your probably right about Morton which means we' ll have 20 loses out of his 28 starts as hes not even an adequate AAA pitcher. I can see the pirates trying to trade Doumit, Maholm, Capps, Olendorf and Duke as there isn't anybody else with the exception of Alvarez, Lincon and Alderson that any MLB team would trade for in the bucs system. I doubt that any player traded by the bucs would come back as they got away from Huntingtons and Russells mismanagement of the team. Unless there is a desperate free agent out there or somebody just wanting to get out from behind somebody like Jones there is no way Huntington will sign anybody of any value this off season as they would cost money and that would tarnish his low payroll.

nickster16301
10-28-2009, 12:50 AM
dont do anything and ensure us of getting a number one overall pick in 11 and i get out of college start my career by season tickets real cheap and finally then in a year or two ill be at every game when the pirates finally make a run for the playoffs

MooseWithFleas
11-01-2009, 02:52 PM
baseball prospectus's john perrotto reports (via twitter) that there's no chance pittsburgh pirates prospects pedro alvarez and brad lincoln will be called up to the majors before at least june of next year.

mlbtr

Strike89
11-03-2009, 06:10 PM
http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2009/11/rays-working-on-iwamura-deal.html

So what do you guys think?

Pensx3
11-03-2009, 06:36 PM
http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2009/11/rays-working-on-iwamura-deal.html

So what do you guys think?

If he can stay healthy, i kind of like this move. He has hit around .280 or so and is a cheaper version of Freddy Sanchez. I dont know who we are trading for him, as long as it is not someone with huge potential, it makes sense...

Next move: get rid of Moss

burgh_fan66
11-04-2009, 12:18 AM
its a good move IF we sign some relief pitchers. we traded our "lefty" specialist so we need some pitchers.

Hossa Sucks
11-04-2009, 02:24 PM
I wonder what this is going to mean for Delwin Young going forward. I guess he'd be a good fill in if Tabata isn't ready for full time duty.

Isn't it kind of ironic that our bull pen is probably going to be the downfall of the club in a couple of years when the starting pitching and the position prospects all make the big club? I mean, it was just a couple of seasons ago that we supposedly had a top tier bullpen with Torres, Marte, Grabow, Capps, and Gonzo.

nickster16301
11-04-2009, 05:49 PM
I wonder what this is going to mean for Delwin Young going forward. I guess he'd be a good fill in if Tabata isn't ready for full time duty.

Isn't it kind of ironic that our bull pen is probably going to be the downfall of the club in a couple of years when the starting pitching and the position prospects all make the big club? I mean, it was just a couple of seasons ago that we supposedly had a top tier bullpen with Torres, Marte, Grabow, Capps, and Gonzo.

moskos will be a great reliever i think...he might possibly going to be are closer down the line...and you basically can just sign some arms and hope you get lucky for the rest of the pen

Hossa Sucks
11-04-2009, 08:47 PM
Aren't they grooming Moskos to be a starter again?

If they're not, I think that Moskos, Veal, Meek, and Hanson (if he's able to come back) could anchor the back end of the bullpen, but that right now is clearly the weakest part of the organization going forward. I guess Hart, Asciano, and Morton will probably end up in the pen before long, but that doesn't exactly make me feel better.

Pensx3
11-04-2009, 10:23 PM
i did like chavez, but if this means the japense guy (sorry, i cant remember it off hand)can play third, that means no more Andy LaRoche!!!!! Who sucks...

burgh_fan66
11-04-2009, 11:34 PM
i did like chavez, but if this means the japense guy (sorry, i cant remember it off hand)can play third, that means no more Andy LaRoche!!!!! Who sucks...

Iwamura will play 2nd. I'm guessing LaRoche will stay at 3rd until Alvarez is ready.

And to my best guess assuming Capps isnt traded the bullpen will look like this next year:

CL: Capps
SU: Hanrahan
SU: Signed Lefty RP
MR: Meek
MR: Hacker/ Jackson/ Another of the LR/ Minor League FA/ etc...
LR: Dumatrait, Ascino, Karstens, Hart, ...
LR: another one from above

Just my opinion though.

cre0530
11-08-2009, 11:10 AM
If he can stay healthy, i kind of like this move. He has hit around .280 or so and is a cheaper version of Freddy Sanchez. I dont know who we are trading for him, as long as it is not someone with huge potential, it makes sense...

Next move: get rid of Moss

Can't get rid of Moss there isn't even a AAA team who wants him. Our new 31 yr old 5 mil a yr avg second baseman just hightlights Neils lies.

cre0530
11-08-2009, 11:13 AM
http://blogs.tampabay.com/rays/2009/11/rays-working-on-iwamura-deal.html

So what do you guys think?

Lets see they traded a decent reliever for a 5mil a yr avg secondbaseman who was going to be allowed to go into free agency where there would have been very little interest in an often injured weak hitting avg fielding converted thirdbaseman. Great baseball move Neil.

cre0530
11-08-2009, 11:19 AM
dont do anything and ensure us of getting a number one overall pick in 11 and i get out of college start my career by season tickets real cheap and finally then in a year or two ill be at every game when the pirates finally make a run for the playoffs

Don't worry with Neil Huntington in charge and Russell in the dugout the bucs won't do any consistent winning for years to come. If you will your season tickets to your children maybe your grandchildren will see them in the play-offs because it will take that long if Neil is left in charge much longer. :mad:

WarriorFan4Life
11-09-2009, 04:26 AM
hi. i am the co-gm for the pirates. i am not a fan of the pirates at all (sorry) and i would like to know what the best players are and who you think that player can get in a trade. Thanks and good luck to the pirates!

MooseWithFleas
11-09-2009, 03:06 PM
Don't worry with Neil Huntington in charge and Russell in the dugout the bucs won't do any consistent winning for years to come. If you will your season tickets to your children maybe your grandchildren will see them in the play-offs because it will take that long if Neil is left in charge much longer. :mad:

I think Neil is doing a very good job :shrug:

PenguinsSteeler
11-11-2009, 02:54 PM
I think Hunington is doing a descent job. We had very few prospects in our organization before he came around. I dont think he is the problem, a guy can only do so much with a $30 million payroll. I thought the Pirates received $70 million a year through reveue sharing, but yet they dont use half of that for the teams salary. So unless this team is losing $35 or so million a year, ownership needs to be held accountable.

burgh_fan66
11-12-2009, 01:18 PM
I don't think it was 70 million but you have the right idea. The Pirates get enough revune sharing to cover the majority if not all of thier payroll. The team should have a 50 - 60 million dollar payroll.

It could be made more if attendance and team interest increased. And no that will not neccesarily come with winning.

Using the Pens for an example, attendence went up before they started winning. So in effect attendence contributed to winning not the other way around.

Jimmy Shine
11-13-2009, 02:01 PM
Owner greed and outright deception makes it hard to expect fans to go on faith. The team will have to win back their fans.

burgh_fan66
11-14-2009, 12:19 AM
I totally agree with you but I am of the belief that winning may not be enough to bring fans back. I don't know if Pittsburgh is a baseball town anymore, a successful Pirate team might still be a minor stroy.

I look at it this way, when the Pirates were playing thier best baseball this season and hosting an 11-1 Marlins team is among the times they drew the lowest crowds of the season.

Small sample I know but until we get a larger on this is really all we can use.

Jimmy Shine
11-14-2009, 05:57 PM
I totally agree with you but I am of the belief that winning may not be enough to bring fans back. I don't know if Pittsburgh is a baseball town anymore, a successful Pirate team might still be a minor stroy.

I look at it this way, when the Pirates were playing thier best baseball this season and hosting an 11-1 Marlins team is among the times they drew the lowest crowds of the season.
Small sample I know but until we get a larger on this is really all we can use.

I think that may be because Pirate fans didnt really buy into it long term. Theyve seen these short bursts of hope before.

I think Nutting is hoping to play the fans for suckers. I believe the goal is to get the team back to the .500 level and create the illusion of contention being just around the corner. Of course, the team could get lucky and exceed that. But I dont believe Nutting is ready to properly finance a championship calibre club.

burgh_fan66
11-14-2009, 07:31 PM
I think that may be because Pirate fans didnt really buy into it long term. Theyve seen these short bursts of hope before.

I think Nutting is hoping to play the fans for suckers. I believe the goal is to get the team back to the .500 level and create the illusion of contention being just around the corner. Of course, the team could get lucky and exceed that. But I dont believe Nutting is ready to properly finance a championship calibre club.

I understand fans not buying into it and I hope I am wrong and if the Pirates do start winning, I hope attendance comes along with it but I'm not positive it will. They seem permently entrenched as a the 4th team in a 3 sport city (I put Pitt athletics ahead of them).Now I hope I am wrong and I hope you are wrong too.

I'm not sure what you mean by properly financing a championship calibre team: if you mean a payroll of 90+ million and keeping most of the young players together then that is definately true, Nutting will not do that. Now if you mean (what I think you mean) raising payroll (about 65-70 million) and keeping 3-4 key players here through a few years of free agency then that has a slight chance of happening (I would still bet against it though).

Jimmy Shine
11-14-2009, 09:51 PM
I understand fans not buying into it and I hope I am wrong and if the Pirates do start winning, I hope attendance comes along with it but I'm not positive it will. They seem permently entrenched as a the 4th team in a 3 sport city (I put Pitt athletics ahead of them).Now I hope I am wrong and I hope you are wrong too.

I'm not sure what you mean by properly financing a championship calibre team: if you mean a payroll of 90+ million and keeping most of the young players together then that is definately true, Nutting will not do that. Now if you mean (what I think you mean) raising payroll (about 65-70 million) and keeping 3-4 key players here through a few years of free agency then that has a slight chance of happening (I would still bet against it though).

Yes, thats what I meant. I just think this guys a pig. Now, I suppose you can win in the 40-50 mil range, but the stars will have to align miraculously because the minute Cutch commands FA prices he'll be driven to the airport.