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AlexTmz2
10-06-2009, 12:27 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-NBA-players-of-the-last-decade;_ylt=Ag8n2.2lqICiiJROborZhjW8vLYF?urn=nba,1 94287



10. Allen Iverson(notes)

There's a fair bit to criticize, but Iverson did score quite a lot and create shots for teams that truly needed him to score and create shots. And he's played for the duration of the decade in question, despite heaps of injuries.

And if this comes off as begrudging, it's because it is. I have a hard time selecting Iverson over people like Elton Brand(notes) or Chris Paul(notes) or even Vince Carter(notes), players who don't score as much, but contribute a great deal in all other areas of the game and score way, way more efficiently than Iverson ever did.



9. Tracy McGrady(notes)
T-Mac was the best perimeter player in this league during 2002-03, better than who you think was the best perimeter player in this league, and he was only 23 at the time. Injuries took over from there, though McGrady has been a fine contributor, he's averaged only 55 games a season in his last four years, and the production has tailed off considerably from his peak with the Magic.

Still a terrific all-around player, though, and well-deserving of placement on this list.



8. Dwyane Wade(notes)
Wade could run away with the MVP this year and work as this league's best player. He was at that level last season, among a couple of others, and the same went for 2005-06.

In between then, he missed 62 games over two years and only entered the league in 2003-04. So, despite the ring, that takes him down a peg in comparison to the players who were going at it for the entire 10-year run.



7. Jason Kidd(notes)
He can't guard anyone, anymore, and though Kidd has sussed out that whole "jump shot" thing with the Mavericks (he's nearly hitting in the mid-40s from behind the arc over 110 contests with Dallas), that wasn't the case for a good chunk of the decade. And he was probably overrated, quite a bit, for a good chunk of the term.

He also defended like mad for most of the run, was an expert passer, scored, rebounded, led teams and worked as the best point man of the decade. Kidd might not be all-world anymore, but he was for long enough to throw up here.



6. Shaquille O'Neal(notes)
Shaquille O'Neal, man among men, is only sixth on this list. It's been a pretty good decade.

Shaq turned in one of the great seasons of all time in 1999-00, but he's only averaged about 65 contests a season since then, he's been out of shape for a few of those years and ultimately disappointed a bit to these eyes.

He also was a beast down low, won four championships, produced some poorly rated summertime TV fare, Tweeted like a fiend, picked several lame fights and contributed to several playoff teams. Big man, big noise, big production.



5. LeBron James(notes)
He's the game's finest player, but there is a quibble with the fact that LeBron didn't play a minute of NBA basketball from 1999 to 2003, while the others on this list were contributing at an MVP level and/or leading their teams to great things.

James is the real deal, though. He somehow exceeded the hype he was met with upon his arrival in the NBA, he contributed in every conceivable area, he led a truly awful Cavalier team to the Finals in 2007 and he seems poised to do other-worldly things for the next 15 years or so.



4. Dirk Nowitzki(notes)
Dirk's second season was 1999-2000, and though his stats were relatively modest (17.5 points, 6.5 rebounds) compared to his eventual averages, the run did inform us that he was no bust worth fretting over. Sure, the non-busto signs were there from time to time during the lockout year, but 1999-00 is where we start to count.

And Dirk's been hotter than hell ever since. Scores at an efficient rate, rebounds, never turns the ball over, improved on defense considerably and he won games.



3. Kobe Bryant(notes)
With the scoring titles and four rings (with several, possibly, left to come), Kobe has the finest trading card resume of any player on this list. But defense matters, and because he isn't a big guy, Bryant just can't compare to those who score nearly as much, but also change games defensively while pulling in twice as many rebounds.

For a guard, though, this man's accomplishments are sublime. He scores, he leads, he works, he yells, he frets, he complains when others don't seem to share his obsession with the game, and I can relate to that. A fine decade for Kobe Bean.



2. Kevin Garnett(notes)
KG takes the cake over Kobe by a hair due to his defense, an area that isn't always accurately documented by statistics.

His stats, though, are pretty awesome. Garnett averaged over 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists for six years. Only Larry Bird has come close to that, and you know damn well Bird was defending or blocking and stealing (combined, usually over three blocks/steals per game) like KG. Pity it took Garnett until he was 31 to get a team worth shouting about.



1. Tim Duncan(notes)
Tim Duncan has led his team to four championships, three during the decade in question. He scores efficiently on either block, is a monster defender, rebounds like few others, draws huge amounts of attention when he has the ball offensively (something Kobe and KG, for all their gifts and for all the double-teams sent their way, just can't compare to), and he wins games.

Has he had great teams around him? Sure. But he's been better than everyone else.

If you really think about it, if you really deal with the game on the level it deserves, you know he's been the best. Really, it shouldn't even be a question. Tim Duncan's been the best player of the last decade.

ackar
10-06-2009, 12:35 PM
another list and upcoming a whole bunch of opinions. All i can say that's yahoo sports list not mine. I say as list go it a fine list as I see they lined up the numbers very nicely.

Chronz
10-06-2009, 12:52 PM
Better list than most Ive seen this off-season actually

Odominator
10-06-2009, 12:55 PM
I think Troy Murphy belongs at number 5 ;)

fresh prince
10-06-2009, 01:02 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-NBA-players-of-the-last-decade;_ylt=Ag8n2.2lqICiiJROborZhjW8vLYF?urn=nba,1 94287

3. Kobe Bryant(notes)

With the scoring titles and four rings (with several, possibly, left to come), Kobe has the finest trading card resume of any player on this list. But defense matters, and because he isn't a big guy, Bryant just can't compare to those who score nearly as much, but also change games defensively while pulling in twice as many rebounds.

For a guard, though, this man's accomplishments are sublime. He scores, he leads, he works, he yells, he frets, he complains when others don't seem to share his obsession with the game, and I can relate to that. A fine decade for Kobe Bean.





Solid list overall.. Cant ARGUE WITH KG and Duncan at 1 and 2

But WTF? Defense matters? This would leave one to assume the author is implying Kibe Bryant doesn't play any defense..

Ans that is some crazy ****...:confused:

nipo10847
10-06-2009, 01:03 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-NBA-players-of-the-last-decade;_ylt=Ag8n2.2lqICiiJROborZhjW8vLYF?urn=nba,1 94287



10. Allen Iverson(notes)

There's a fair bit to criticize, but Iverson did score quite a lot and create shots for teams that truly needed him to score and create shots. And he's played for the duration of the decade in question, despite heaps of injuries.

And if this comes off as begrudging, it's because it is. I have a hard time selecting Iverson over people like Elton Brand(notes) or Chris Paul(notes) or even Vince Carter(notes), players who don't score as much, but contribute a great deal in all other areas of the game and score way, way more efficiently than Iverson ever did.



9. Tracy McGrady(notes)
T-Mac was the best perimeter player in this league during 2002-03, better than who you think was the best perimeter player in this league, and he was only 23 at the time. Injuries took over from there, though McGrady has been a fine contributor, he's averaged only 55 games a season in his last four years, and the production has tailed off considerably from his peak with the Magic.

Still a terrific all-around player, though, and well-deserving of placement on this list.



8. Dwyane Wade(notes)
Wade could run away with the MVP this year and work as this league's best player. He was at that level last season, among a couple of others, and the same went for 2005-06.

In between then, he missed 62 games over two years and only entered the league in 2003-04. So, despite the ring, that takes him down a peg in comparison to the players who were going at it for the entire 10-year run.



7. Jason Kidd(notes)
He can't guard anyone, anymore, and though Kidd has sussed out that whole "jump shot" thing with the Mavericks (he's nearly hitting in the mid-40s from behind the arc over 110 contests with Dallas), that wasn't the case for a good chunk of the decade. And he was probably overrated, quite a bit, for a good chunk of the term.

He also defended like mad for most of the run, was an expert passer, scored, rebounded, led teams and worked as the best point man of the decade. Kidd might not be all-world anymore, but he was for long enough to throw up here.



6. Shaquille O'Neal(notes)
Shaquille O'Neal, man among men, is only sixth on this list. It's been a pretty good decade.

Shaq turned in one of the great seasons of all time in 1999-00, but he's only averaged about 65 contests a season since then, he's been out of shape for a few of those years and ultimately disappointed a bit to these eyes.

He also was a beast down low, won four championships, produced some poorly rated summertime TV fare, Tweeted like a fiend, picked several lame fights and contributed to several playoff teams. Big man, big noise, big production.



5. LeBron James(notes)
He's the game's finest player, but there is a quibble with the fact that LeBron didn't play a minute of NBA basketball from 1999 to 2003, while the others on this list were contributing at an MVP level and/or leading their teams to great things.

James is the real deal, though. He somehow exceeded the hype he was met with upon his arrival in the NBA, he contributed in every conceivable area, he led a truly awful Cavalier team to the Finals in 2007 and he seems poised to do other-worldly things for the next 15 years or so.



4. Dirk Nowitzki(notes)
Dirk's second season was 1999-2000, and though his stats were relatively modest (17.5 points, 6.5 rebounds) compared to his eventual averages, the run did inform us that he was no bust worth fretting over. Sure, the non-busto signs were there from time to time during the lockout year, but 1999-00 is where we start to count.

And Dirk's been hotter than hell ever since. Scores at an efficient rate, rebounds, never turns the ball over, improved on defense considerably and he won games.



3. Kobe Bryant(notes)
With the scoring titles and four rings (with several, possibly, left to come), Kobe has the finest trading card resume of any player on this list. But defense matters, and because he isn't a big guy, Bryant just can't compare to those who score nearly as much, but also change games defensively while pulling in twice as many rebounds.

For a guard, though, this man's accomplishments are sublime. He scores, he leads, he works, he yells, he frets, he complains when others don't seem to share his obsession with the game, and I can relate to that. A fine decade for Kobe Bean.



2. Kevin Garnett(notes)
KG takes the cake over Kobe by a hair due to his defense, an area that isn't always accurately documented by statistics.

His stats, though, are pretty awesome. Garnett averaged over 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists for six years. Only Larry Bird has come close to that, and you know damn well Bird was defending or blocking and stealing (combined, usually over three blocks/steals per game) like KG. Pity it took Garnett until he was 31 to get a team worth shouting about.



1. Tim Duncan(notes)
Tim Duncan has led his team to four championships, three during the decade in question. He scores efficiently on either block, is a monster defender, rebounds like few others, draws huge amounts of attention when he has the ball offensively (something Kobe and KG, for all their gifts and for all the double-teams sent their way, just can't compare to), and he wins games.

Has he had great teams around him? Sure. But he's been better than everyone else.

If you really think about it, if you really deal with the game on the level it deserves, you know he's been the best. Really, it shouldn't even be a question. Tim Duncan's been the best player of the last decade.




No wayyyyyyy in the world Shaq can be #6....only player that can be ahead of him is Tim Duncan. If you don't count the Championships to measure a player's greatness then I don't care about this list. 3 rings (three peat), 3 finals MVP, 1 league mvp. What have Garnett, Kobe, Lebron, and Nowitzki done in this decade to be upper on the list than shaq. Also D WADE has to be up in this list since he won 2006 championship with one of the greatest final's performances in NBA history.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
10-06-2009, 01:04 PM
The people who write this are complete idiots.... what has mcgrady done that AI hasn't? these make me sick.

mfb_lt1birdman
10-06-2009, 01:29 PM
I can acknowledge TD over Kobe but not KG, not one bit. "but defense matters". I suppose being a perennial lock on the All NBA Defensive Teams is not enough. Whatever.

And even though Shaq faded some over the last half of the decade he has done more than KG, and Dirk, and even Lebron. The first few years of the 00's Shaq was a one man wrecking crew. This list is crap.

eugene
10-06-2009, 01:35 PM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. L.James
5. Bryant
6. Wade
7. Nowitzki
8. Kidd
9. Paul
10. Nash/Billups

Jonathan2323
10-06-2009, 01:39 PM
Shaq is #1 and Dirk in front of Wade is laughable

b_russ
10-06-2009, 01:53 PM
I agree about O'Neal, he should be higher.

Pierzynski4Prez
10-06-2009, 01:53 PM
I love Shaq and all, but Duncan is ahead of him on this list. For the 2nd half of this decade, Shaq has been the 2nd fiddle on all his teams. Accomplishment wise, they are equal.

Duncan is still the nucleus of the Spurs, and that team revolves around him on both sides of the court, for the entire decade, not just 2000-2004 or 5 like Shaq.

Lakerfan8032
10-06-2009, 01:55 PM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. L.James
5. Bryant
6. Wade
7. Nowitzki
8. Kidd
9. Paul
10. Nash/Billups

You're list is quite pathetic. You really think Kobe is fifth behind LeBron? The only phrase that applies to you in this regard is that your ignorance knows no bounds. Or you're a Kobe hater. Duncan and Kobe need to be 1-2 on any player of the decade list. Doesn't matter who is one or two just as long as the two of them top the list.

JordansBulls
10-06-2009, 01:56 PM
:laugh2:

This dude is on crack. How the hell is Shaq 6th for the decade when the man has 4 titles, 3 finals mvp's, 1 season mvp and some of the best season and finals ever all time in this decade alone?


Also how the hell could KG be 2nd when he has only made it to the 2nd round two times in this decade alone?

LE-SHAQ
10-06-2009, 02:05 PM
These list are made two get us riled up. Tracy mcgrady??? Dirk????? Shaq at 6 come on man this is not based on nba basketball maybe this is based on nba live?

GREATNESS ONE
10-06-2009, 02:05 PM
I agree with this list somewhat but obviously there are clear errors in my opinion

BoTiggle
10-06-2009, 02:06 PM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. L.James
5. Bryant
6. Wade
7. Nowitzki
8. Kidd
9. Paul
10. Nash/Billups

LeBron above Kobe when considering best players of the decade? I love LeBron, don't get me wrong, but are you dense? Please explain.

JNA17
10-06-2009, 02:07 PM
one of the worst list i have ever seen. KG at number 2? But then again it's yahoo so who really gives a crap. Here's my list.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Allen Iverson
5. Kevin Garnett
6. D-Wade
7. Lebron James
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Jason Kidd
10. Tracy McGrady

king4day
10-06-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't think Wade belongs as high as he is.
Kobe should be ahead of KG. I thought Kobe has always been a better defender than KG and he shuts down top talent.

knickerbockerny
10-06-2009, 02:12 PM
This List is horrible!

last stand
10-06-2009, 02:21 PM
shaq, kobe, duncan all have 4 rings

yet KG is in front of all of them except duncan

bad list

AlexTmz2
10-06-2009, 02:22 PM
one of the worst list i have ever seen. KG at number 2? But then again it's yahoo so who really gives a crap. Here's my list.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Tim Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Allen Iverson
5. Kevin Garnett
6. D-Wade
7. Lebron James
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Jason Kidd
10. Tracy McGrady


Agree....

ShockerArt
10-06-2009, 02:41 PM
I like Garnett, but Kobe > Garnett. Kobe and Duncan are 1a and 1b.

Gibby
10-06-2009, 03:01 PM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. L.James
5. Bryant
6. Wade
7. Nowitzki
8. Kidd
9. Paul
10. Nash/Billups

You're clearly not a Kobe fan. i love chris Paul but he has only been in the league for 4 years. Steve nash was a good player but he wasn't considered a star until he got to Phoenix.

My list

1. Duncan
2. Bryant
3. Garnett
4. Shaq
5. Iverson
6. Kidd
7. James (best player since 2003)
8. Wade
9. Nowitzki
10. Yao

nipo10847
10-06-2009, 03:04 PM
I don't think Wade belongs as high as he is.
Kobe should be ahead of KG. I thought Kobe has always been a better defender than KG and he shuts down top talent.

?????.....U r right!..Wade should be replaced by Amare or barbosa!!!!!!....and ya, kobe is better than KG in defence!!!,,,,GTFOH!!!!!!!

nipo10847
10-06-2009, 03:07 PM
The list::::
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Bryant
4. Garnett
5. Iverson
6. Wade
7. James
8. Kidd
9. Nowitzki
10.Nash

heattiltheend94
10-06-2009, 03:14 PM
Nowitzki belongs a lot lower, and McGrady doesn't belong on the list

J4KOP99
10-06-2009, 03:26 PM
1-Kobe
2-Duncan
3-Shaq
4-KG

Bruno
10-06-2009, 03:51 PM
lol

Raps18-19 Champ
10-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Shaq should be #1.

kswissdaf
10-06-2009, 04:30 PM
Shaq is by far the best and its not even close

Fayzon10
10-06-2009, 04:38 PM
You're clearly not a Kobe fan. i love chris Paul but he has only been in the league for 4 years. Steve nash was a good player but he wasn't considered a star until he got to Phoenix.

My list

1. Duncan
2. Bryant
3. Garnett
4. Shaq
5. Iverson
6. Kidd
7. James (best player since 2003)
8. Wade
9. Nowitzki
10. Yao Swap Shaq and Garnett and you're dead on

8kobe24
10-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Wow TD an number one? Shaq at number 6? I rest my case.

NBAfan4life
10-06-2009, 05:14 PM
1. Bryant Duncan could be here but it is so close and I'm a Kobe fan
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Garnett
5. Iverson
6. Kidd
7. James
8. Wade
9. Nowitzki
10. Tmac

nipo10847
10-06-2009, 05:37 PM
1. Bryant Duncan could be here but it is so close and I'm a Kobe fan
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Garnett
5. Iverson
6. Kidd
7. James
8. Wade
9. Nowitzki
10. Tmac

Duncan: 4 rings, 3 finals mvp, 2 league mvp's.
Shaq: 4 rings, 3 finals mvp, 1 league mvp.

What has Kobe done to b on top????

NBAfan4life
10-06-2009, 05:40 PM
Duncan: 4 rings, 3 finals mvp, 2 league mvp's.
Shaq: 4 rings, 3 finals mvp, 1 league mvp.

What has Kobe done to b on top????

In all honesty Duncan should be number 1. Having Kobe number 2 is fair considering how bad shaq has been the last few years.

x_notorious
10-06-2009, 05:48 PM
Whoever did this list is a crack head.

Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan should be top 3, without question..4 rings a piece, Finals MVP, League MVP, etc. Garnett at 2 is a HUGE joke. No hating on Garnett, he is a fine player, but trophies speak volume.

ThuglifeJ
10-06-2009, 07:05 PM
HOW IS SHAQ NOT IN THE TOP 5!. I thought it was a given he was #1 or #2...

Does anyone else notice that Yahoo's top 10 SGs of the last decade went like this (pretty sure) 1.Kobe 2.Wade 3. Vince Carter 4. Ray Allen 5. Iverson
^or something like that, all I know is how can they decide to make Iverson on the top 10 of decade but not Ray Allen or Vince.


I agree he should be in the best of the decade list but come on Yahoo.

MackSnackWrap
10-06-2009, 07:19 PM
this is one fuked up listtt

rapswin98
10-06-2009, 07:20 PM
this is one fuked up listttagreed

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 07:27 PM
Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Nowitzki
Kidd
James
Wade
McGrady
Iverson

_KB24_
10-06-2009, 07:42 PM
I was drinking a milkshake when I saw Shaq was at number 6.....Thanks for ruining my my new shirt :@ ! I mean how can you possibly put the the most dominant big man ever, who has had his prime years and rings in this decade, at NUMBER 6? Dirk ****IN Nowitzki? Over Shaq? No disrespect to Dirk, but REALLY? Lebron as well? Shaq is light years ahead of Lebron in terms of achievements both individual and team during this decade. Last but not least, I have no problem with Duncan being number 1 or Kobe being 3, but I do take issue with Garnett being number 2. Kobe and Shaq have noth accomplished far more than what KG has done and that means a lot considering how great of a player KG was and to some extent currently is.

Congratulations fellas, seems like Yahoo has found that same kush we all expected ESPN to have...

Chronz
10-06-2009, 07:43 PM
The people who write this are complete idiots.... what has mcgrady done that AI hasn't? these make me sick.

Reach a higher level of play, at his peak was a superior 2 way player, he just never had the best defense in his weak conference to carry him to the Finals the way AI did.

Chronz
10-06-2009, 07:43 PM
I can acknowledge TD over Kobe but not KG, not one bit. "but defense matters". I suppose being a perennial lock on the All NBA Defensive Teams is not enough. Whatever.

And even though Shaq faded some over the last half of the decade he has done more than KG, and Dirk, and even Lebron. The first few years of the 00's Shaq was a one man wrecking crew. This list is crap.

Defense matters because no matter how good Kobe wants to be on any given night, he will never have the defensive impact that KG and Duncan had on their respective squads. Still Id rank Kobe ahead of everyone this decade because the writer neglects to mention that hes just as good offensively. And in terms of intangibles outside of Defense, that comes with winning, only Duncan can match him


EDIT PEOPLE SHAQ HAS ONLY DOMINATED HALF OF THIS DECADE.

NBAfan4life
10-06-2009, 07:47 PM
Reach a higher level of play, at his peak was a superior 2 way player, he just never had the best defense in his weak conference to carry him to the Finals the way AI did.

Didnt Tmac play in the same weak *** conference when he made it to the finals. AI is way ahead of tracy.

D Roses Bulls
10-06-2009, 08:12 PM
In all honesty Duncan should be number 1. Having Kobe number 2 is fair considering how bad shaq has been the last few years.

this is all i have to say about kobe being ahead of shaq or duncan......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jcpagfieg

NBAfan4life
10-06-2009, 08:15 PM
this is all i have to say about kobe being ahead of shaq or duncan......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9Jcpagfieg

Shaq has had some awful years in the last decade. Duncan I agree with.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:19 PM
Didnt Tmac play in the same weak *** conference when he made it to the finals. AI is way ahead of tracy.

um, they sure did for much of TMac's good years, but he did not have McKie, Snow, Mutumbo, and the rest of the defensive machine that Philly had for 2 seasons. McGrady was a highly efficient scorer, and an above average defender, both of which Iverson can not claim. Iverson used quantity to get his points.
McGrady had more of an impact on both ends of the floor. I used to agree with you, without the extreme, but if you really analyze their respective statistics, and what they meant to their teams, McGrady's best 4 years crush Iverson's.

Chronz
10-06-2009, 08:22 PM
Didnt Tmac play in the same weak *** conference when he made it to the finals.
Yes but thats why you should finish reading my sentence. Tmac DID NOT have the support of the BEST DEFENSE IN HIS CONFERENCE, to allow him to chuck to his hearts content regardless of how inefficient he was.


AI is way ahead of tracy.
To the masses yes, but to the intellectual fan, not even close.

D Roses Bulls
10-06-2009, 08:23 PM
Shaq has had some awful years in the last decade. Duncan I agree with.

but he was drafted in 92 and is like 5 years older then kobe, maybe 6 and has four rings this decade, kobe got 3 of them playing with shaq and who was the finals mvp those three times? oh yeah thats right..... SHAQ

Chronz
10-06-2009, 08:24 PM
but he was drafted in 92 and is like 5 years older then kobe, maybe 6 and has four rings this decade, kobe got 3 of them playing with shaq and who was the finals mvp those three times? oh yeah thats right..... SHAQ
Thats why Shaq shouldnt be above them, he was drafted in 92

Storch
10-06-2009, 08:25 PM
Is this dude on crack?! Kobe has no defense and Shaq is 6th? Throw this article away or at least use it to wipe your bossom.

D Roses Bulls
10-06-2009, 08:25 PM
To the masses yes, but to the intellectual fan, not even close.


lmao..... i so agree with that. if anyone remember t-mac he was a monster. i actually wrote a paper in high school of why i thought mcgrady was better then kobe and got an A on it. if Mcgrady didnt have those degenerative back problems he would of been one of the greatest ever.

D Roses Bulls
10-06-2009, 08:27 PM
Thats why Shaq shouldnt be above them, he was drafted in 92

and kobe was drafted in 96 with A.I. Garnett in 95. i mean i know 3 and 4 years after wards, but shaq didnt hit his prime til the 99-00 season.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:27 PM
To the masses yes, but to the intellectual fan, not even close.


lmao..... i so agree with that. if anyone remember t-mac he was a monster. i actually wrote a paper in high school of why i thought mcgrady was better then kobe and got an A on it. if Mcgrady did have those degenerative back problems he would of been one of the greatest ever.

I agree he was with Kobe at the time, but TMac hasn't shown the tenacity or heart to be mentioned with Mr Bryant. The back has some to do with it, but Kobe's mental drive would have seperated them regardless.

Storch
10-06-2009, 08:28 PM
Robert Horry deserves more praise than tracy mcgrady.

Some of you may laugh at my comment but look up the facts first, horry's got a ton of rings.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:29 PM
and kobe was drafted in 96 with A.I. Garnett in 95. i mean i know 3 and 4 years after wards, but shaq didnt hit his prime til the 99-00 season.

Shaq totally dominated from game 1, year 2. Now, when Hakeem, Robinson, etc left, there was nobody there to challenge him. I will admit he became ridiculously unstoppable in 99-00, only because he was finally healthy, but Shaq killed it from day 1 basically

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:30 PM
Robert Horry deserves more praise than tracy mcgrady.

Some of you may laugh at my comment but look up the facts first, horry's got a ton of rings.

cmon dude.

NBAfan4life
10-06-2009, 08:30 PM
Yes but thats why you should finish reading my sentence. Tmac DID NOT have the support of the BEST DEFENSE IN HIS CONFERENCE, to allow him to chuck to his hearts content regardless of how inefficient he was.


To the masses yes, but to the intellectual fan, not even close.

AI has made it out of the first round, to the finals even. Also how many games has tracy missed. AI has been so durable. I just cant put tracy ahead of him when his team has never been out of the first round EVER!!

D Roses Bulls
10-06-2009, 08:30 PM
I agree he was with Kobe at the time, but TMac hasn't shown the tenacity or heart to be mentioned with Mr Bryant. The back has some to do with it, but Kobe's mental drive would have seperated them regardless.

oh i agree. i was talking about back in the day when mcgrady was playing with the magic. i think the back had everything to do with it. mcgrady had that killer instinct not like MJ's cause no one had his killer instinct, but like kobe's and if he wasnt always hurt, i bet by now houston would of had a championship or two.

D Roses Bulls
10-06-2009, 08:33 PM
Shaq totally dominated from game 1, year 2. Now, when Hakeem, Robinson, etc left, there was nobody there to challenge him. I will admit he became ridiculously unstoppable in 99-00, only because he was finally healthy, but Shaq killed it from day 1 basically

oh yeah i know, but shaq was never shaq until 99-00 season. i mean theres a big difference in numbers and i mean look how big shaq was compared to even his first year with the lakers. his weight , athleticism, and when he finally learned how to really play the game made him so dominant and he became a whole new player. different then how he played the game in orlando and early on in L.A.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:37 PM
oh yeah i know, but shaq was never shaq until 99-00 season. i mean theres a big difference in numbers and i mean look how big shaq was compared to even his first year with the lakers. his weight , athleticism, and when he finally learned how to really play the game made him so dominant and he became a whole new player. different then how he played the game in orlando and early on in L.A.

I think Kobe maturing, and Phil hopping on board may have helped, haha.
Shaq was always Shaq, it just all came together team wise in 99'

Lakersfan2483
10-06-2009, 08:38 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-10-best-NBA-players-of-the-last-decade;_ylt=Ag8n2.2lqICiiJROborZhjW8vLYF?urn=nba,1 94287



10. Allen Iverson(notes)

There's a fair bit to criticize, but Iverson did score quite a lot and create shots for teams that truly needed him to score and create shots. And he's played for the duration of the decade in question, despite heaps of injuries.

And if this comes off as begrudging, it's because it is. I have a hard time selecting Iverson over people like Elton Brand(notes) or Chris Paul(notes) or even Vince Carter(notes), players who don't score as much, but contribute a great deal in all other areas of the game and score way, way more efficiently than Iverson ever did.



9. Tracy McGrady(notes)
T-Mac was the best perimeter player in this league during 2002-03, better than who you think was the best perimeter player in this league, and he was only 23 at the time. Injuries took over from there, though McGrady has been a fine contributor, he's averaged only 55 games a season in his last four years, and the production has tailed off considerably from his peak with the Magic.

Still a terrific all-around player, though, and well-deserving of placement on this list.



8. Dwyane Wade(notes)
Wade could run away with the MVP this year and work as this league's best player. He was at that level last season, among a couple of others, and the same went for 2005-06.

In between then, he missed 62 games over two years and only entered the league in 2003-04. So, despite the ring, that takes him down a peg in comparison to the players who were going at it for the entire 10-year run.



7. Jason Kidd(notes)
He can't guard anyone, anymore, and though Kidd has sussed out that whole "jump shot" thing with the Mavericks (he's nearly hitting in the mid-40s from behind the arc over 110 contests with Dallas), that wasn't the case for a good chunk of the decade. And he was probably overrated, quite a bit, for a good chunk of the term.

He also defended like mad for most of the run, was an expert passer, scored, rebounded, led teams and worked as the best point man of the decade. Kidd might not be all-world anymore, but he was for long enough to throw up here.



6. Shaquille O'Neal(notes)
Shaquille O'Neal, man among men, is only sixth on this list. It's been a pretty good decade.

Shaq turned in one of the great seasons of all time in 1999-00, but he's only averaged about 65 contests a season since then, he's been out of shape for a few of those years and ultimately disappointed a bit to these eyes.

He also was a beast down low, won four championships, produced some poorly rated summertime TV fare, Tweeted like a fiend, picked several lame fights and contributed to several playoff teams. Big man, big noise, big production.



5. LeBron James(notes)
He's the game's finest player, but there is a quibble with the fact that LeBron didn't play a minute of NBA basketball from 1999 to 2003, while the others on this list were contributing at an MVP level and/or leading their teams to great things.

James is the real deal, though. He somehow exceeded the hype he was met with upon his arrival in the NBA, he contributed in every conceivable area, he led a truly awful Cavalier team to the Finals in 2007 and he seems poised to do other-worldly things for the next 15 years or so.



4. Dirk Nowitzki(notes)
Dirk's second season was 1999-2000, and though his stats were relatively modest (17.5 points, 6.5 rebounds) compared to his eventual averages, the run did inform us that he was no bust worth fretting over. Sure, the non-busto signs were there from time to time during the lockout year, but 1999-00 is where we start to count.

And Dirk's been hotter than hell ever since. Scores at an efficient rate, rebounds, never turns the ball over, improved on defense considerably and he won games.



3. Kobe Bryant(notes)
With the scoring titles and four rings (with several, possibly, left to come), Kobe has the finest trading card resume of any player on this list. But defense matters, and because he isn't a big guy, Bryant just can't compare to those who score nearly as much, but also change games defensively while pulling in twice as many rebounds.

For a guard, though, this man's accomplishments are sublime. He scores, he leads, he works, he yells, he frets, he complains when others don't seem to share his obsession with the game, and I can relate to that. A fine decade for Kobe Bean.



2. Kevin Garnett(notes)
KG takes the cake over Kobe by a hair due to his defense, an area that isn't always accurately documented by statistics.

His stats, though, are pretty awesome. Garnett averaged over 20 points, 10 rebounds and five assists for six years. Only Larry Bird has come close to that, and you know damn well Bird was defending or blocking and stealing (combined, usually over three blocks/steals per game) like KG. Pity it took Garnett until he was 31 to get a team worth shouting about.



1. Tim Duncan(notes)
Tim Duncan has led his team to four championships, three during the decade in question. He scores efficiently on either block, is a monster defender, rebounds like few others, draws huge amounts of attention when he has the ball offensively (something Kobe and KG, for all their gifts and for all the double-teams sent their way, just can't compare to), and he wins games.

Has he had great teams around him? Sure. But he's been better than everyone else.

If you really think about it, if you really deal with the game on the level it deserves, you know he's been the best. Really, it shouldn't even be a question. Tim Duncan's been the best player of the last decade.

Any list with Shaq at no. 6 should not and will not be taken seriously. The list is garbage and that's being polite about it.

bbcmillionaire
10-06-2009, 08:41 PM
shaq and kg should switch spots

I like you
10-06-2009, 08:43 PM
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
KG
Lebron
Wade
Kidd
AI
Dirk
Nash

ko8e24
10-06-2009, 09:10 PM
Better list than most Ive seen this off-season actually

seriously dude, reading all ur posts does indeed indicate that u are on drugs!




Is thiz guy for real?? :speechless:

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 09:14 PM
seriously dude, reading all ur posts does indeed indicate that u are on drugs!




Is thiz guy for real?? :speechless:

haha, are you asking if Chronz is for real? He is more educated than almost every poster on PSD. I think it is hilarious that many of the Laker fans never venture outside any thread that doesn't involve their team but for a small, simple comment.
This wasn't a bad list. It really wasn't. Is any list perfect? Not unless you put it together yourself.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 09:15 PM
I like you Kobe24, but the dude you are going at is the best poster on PSD imo.
No beef with you bro, take it easy

ko8e24
10-06-2009, 09:22 PM
I like you Kobe24, but the dude you are going at is the best poster on PSD imo.
No beef with you bro, take it easy

ehh, prolly 2 harsh, so my bad bro.

but i was just surprised how he just totally and easily conceded to the list.

my apologies to chronz and u yo

ManRam
10-06-2009, 09:47 PM
Shaq at 6 is terrible, he's either one or two, but the rest is fine with me.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 09:49 PM
ehh, prolly 2 harsh, so my bad bro.

but i was just surprised how he just totally and easily conceded to the list.

my apologies to chronz and u yo

nah dude, you and me made peace a while back. No worries

Toenail Clipper
10-06-2009, 09:59 PM
Homosexual list.
Number one should be Rajon Rondo<3
I just love his dirty and sexy plays

B.JenningsMVP
10-06-2009, 10:03 PM
Fail

_KB24_
10-06-2009, 10:28 PM
I don't know how to come across this without being rude, but how in the **** is Shaq number 6? Anyone care to answer? And don't bring in the "decline" argument over the past 2-3 years, Shaq is still a Top 3 Center in the League today.

GREATNESS ONE
10-06-2009, 11:53 PM
Duncan/Shaq
Kobe
Garnett
Kidd
Iverson
James/Wade
Nowitzki
Nash


Heres you list until the end of this season when Kobe catapults to 1st place. Nash edges out Tmac and Yao with 2 season MVPs.

ARMIN12NBA
10-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Kelly Dwyer simply being Kelly Dwyer.

Shaq at 6th? Plain awful.

Kobe shouldn't be qualified as a great defender because he isn't a big man? Ugh. Awful argument.

What a joke. We all know Shaq/Kobe/TD belong in the top 3.

gattaca
10-07-2009, 12:20 AM
mcgrady????

Steve Nash is missing.

jim51990
10-07-2009, 12:27 AM
should be 1. duncan
2. shaq / kobe
4. garnett
5 lebron
6 kidd
7 nowitzki
8 wade
9 iverson
10 nash

silvTeg98
10-07-2009, 12:49 AM
lmao kobe number 3?! you gotta be kidding me

Hustla23
10-07-2009, 01:02 AM
Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kobe
Nowitzki
Lebron
Wade
McGrady
Kidd


IMO

I think people are overlooking Garnett a tad bit... This dude in his prime was just a monster. He put up absolutely ridiculous stats while playing arguably the best defense in the league.

Even so, Shaq in his prime was the most dominating player I've ever seen. I don't even care about Shaq's longevity. The way he just made candy of any team he played, in his prime, was just awesome.

I marked my calendar with sad faces everytime the Lakers played the Knicks in the late 90's, early 00's

NPH
10-07-2009, 01:06 AM
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. L.james
5. Bryant
6. Wade
7. Nowitzki
8. Kidd
9. Paul
10. Nash/billups


hahahahahahah!

ARMIN12NBA
10-07-2009, 01:12 AM
Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kobe
Nowitzki
Lebron
Wade
McGrady
Kidd


IMO

I think people are overlooking Garnett a tad bit... This dude in his prime was just a monster. He put up absolutely ridiculous stats while playing arguably the best defense in the league.

Even so, Shaq in his prime was the most dominating player I've ever seen. I don't even care about Shaq's longevity. The way he just made candy of any team he played, in his prime, was just awesome.

I marked my calendar with sad faces everytime the Lakers played the Knicks in the late 90's, early 00's

How do people overlook Garnett when they rightly place him at #4? In this case, you are overrating Garnett. Garnett is rarely ever overlooked and is always talked about as top 5 of decade and top 5 power forwards all time. He is rightly placed, but when you say he is top 3 is when he becomes overrated. Garnett is one player who doesn't get underrated very often.

Hustla23
10-07-2009, 01:29 AM
How do people overlook Garnett when they rightly place him at #4? In this case, you are overrating Garnett. Garnett is rarely ever overlooked and is always talked about as top 5 of decade and top 5 power forwards all time. He is rightly placed, but when you say he is top 3 is when he becomes overrated. Garnett is one player who doesn't get underrated very often.
Off-topic.

I was just curious if you didn't get a chance to answer my post about Lebron. I'm curious about your reply.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10993989&postcount=115

ChiSox219
10-07-2009, 01:56 AM
Duncan
Shaq
KG
Kobe
Nowitzki
Lebron
Wade
McGrady
Kidd


IMO

I think people are overlooking Garnett a tad bit... This dude in his prime was just a monster. He put up absolutely ridiculous stats while playing arguably the best defense in the league.

Even so, Shaq in his prime was the most dominating player I've ever seen. I don't even care about Shaq's longevity. The way he just made candy of any team he played, in his prime, was just awesome.

I marked my calendar with sad faces everytime the Lakers played the Knicks in the late 90's, early 00's
:laugh:

I agree with this post, except I would swap KG with Shaq. Though Shaq was more dominant, he had his inconsistent stretches where he was banged up.

Look at KG, first six years of his decade he started no less than 81 games, and 9 times played 70+.

Lakersfan2483
10-07-2009, 02:08 AM
The 3 best players of the decade are Shaq, Kobe and Duncan. After those 3, guys like KG, Nowitzki, Wade, Bron, Iverson, Kidd, Nash all belong.

Gibby
10-07-2009, 02:36 AM
You're clearly not a Kobe fan. i love chris Paul but he has only been in the league for 4 years. Steve nash was a good player but he wasn't considered a star until he got to Phoenix.

My list

1. Duncan
2. Bryant
3. Garnett
4. Shaq
5. Iverson
6. Kidd
7. James (best player since 2003)
8. Wade
9. Nowitzki
10. Yao

i have to change #10 to Nash. A 2 time league MVP, cant be left of the list.

i know alot of people are mad at shaq at #6. i think he should be a bit higher but you have keep in mind the last fews years hurt him.

If you were to look at best 10 years from all these players career and make a list, SHAQ would be #1.

Shaq would be only player to make top 10 list for the 90s and 2000s. This list shouldnt be disregarded because shaq's at 6. his best years were split between two decades.

JordansBulls
10-07-2009, 12:07 PM
lmao kobe number 3?! you gotta be kidding me

Only guys who have a case to be over him are Shaq and Duncan. Garnett doesn't.

G-Funk
10-07-2009, 12:50 PM
This list makes me sick but it looks a lot better next to eugene's

G-Funk
10-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Duncan Kobe Shaq are top 3 no matter what order you put it in, 2 LAKERS should be top 3.

Chronz
10-07-2009, 01:47 PM
ehh, prolly 2 harsh, so my bad bro.

but i was just surprised how he just totally and easily conceded to the list.

my apologies to chronz and u yo
We're all on drugs, if youve ever drank coffee you are a drug user

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11011034&postcount=44

Read this, in it I clearly say Id rank Kobe #1, so hopefully that cheers you up. That doesnt change the fact that this is a pretty decent list compared to most Ive seen, the reason doesnt have so much to do with where they placed players, but the overall selection of players is spot on. AI barely making this list is much better than having him 7th or top 5 like Ive seen in others. And while the selection of KG over Kobe is asinine, you can make a much better case for KG over Kobe than you could for AI being that good.

Shaq is such a hard case because if we were to treat every year as its own separate game, Shaq would be the most inconsistent player on this list, but yea probably underrated.

Lakerfan In NY
10-07-2009, 01:50 PM
Only guys who have a case to be over him are Shaq and Duncan. Garnett doesn't.

I agree w/you...Inteseting thing is do you think that KG would even be that high if he didn't win a title a yr ago?

But if your talking about a Decade (10 yrs) Shaq should be #1...Per yr these were the best.

1999-00-Shaq
2000-01-Shaq or AI
2001-02-Shaq or TD
2002-03-TD
2003-04-KG
2004-05-Nash
2005-06-No one stood out...
2006-07-Dirk
2007-08-Kobe
2008-09-LBJ

Chronz
10-07-2009, 01:55 PM
and kobe was drafted in 96 with A.I. Garnett in 95. i mean i know 3 and 4 years after wards, but shaq didnt hit his prime til the 99-00 season.
Yea but Kobe and KG were fresh outta highschool. When the decade came Shaq was 27-37, KB and KG were 21-31 and 23-33, respectively. In this decade there are far too many prime seasons from both those players probably every year could be considered a prime of sorts, more than Shaqs 5-6 year run thats for sure.


Shaq hit his prime in the 97-98 Season, then came the asterisk season, then when the full seasons were back it was evident to everyone how much has changed.

Still the man dominated like no other so you can make a case for him, but if I were stuck with 1 player for this decade I think Id take KG. No beef with you taking Shaq though

JordansBulls
10-07-2009, 02:03 PM
Yea but Kobe and KG were fresh outta highschool. When the decade came Shaq was 27-37, KB and KG were 21-31 and 23-33, respectively. In this decade there are far too many prime seasons from both those players probably every year could be considered a prime of sorts, more than Shaqs 5-6 year run thats for sure.


Shaq hit his prime in the 97-98 Season, then came the asterisk season, then when the full seasons were back it was evident to everyone how much has changed.

Still the man dominated like no other so you can make a case for him, but if I were stuck with 1 player for this decade I think Id take KG. No beef with you taking Shaq though

Shaq was in his prime pretty much since his 3rd year until 2003.

Chronz
10-07-2009, 02:08 PM
AI has made it out of the first round, to the finals even. Also how many games has tracy missed. AI has been so durable. I just cant put tracy ahead of him when his team has never been out of the first round EVER!!
LOL cmon man, AI has played a grand total of 11 more games than Tmac this decade.

Making it past the first round doesnt mean anything, even Melo and VC have done it, and they are far lesser players. Its about the circumstances that your teams dealt that decides whether you advance or not. Look at Kobe, if the so called best player in the game couldnt get out, it shows you just how much help one requires, and in every series Tmac has been in, the end result was out of his control.

The one series he was favored in, his best player was totally mitigated by Boozer. When your best player is a total defensive liability when hes been a STRENGTH all year, its going to mess up your chances. Still by this point Tmac was a shell of his former self so even had he advanced it wouldnt really have changed much about him.

Chronz
10-07-2009, 02:18 PM
Shaq was in his prime pretty much since his 3rd year until 2003.

I could see why you would think that, but the truth is he was a significantly better player by 97 than he was in year 3 and he was injured throughout alot of his early Laker career. The fact that Shaq's development stages were so dominant and eerily similar to his Prime stage, is a tribute to his greatness.

Still something changed about Shaq in those years leading up to the hiring of Phil. If not for the internal growth in Shaq maturity level, playing in the triangle wouldnt have never worked out. Its funny Shaq says the day he stopped caring about #'s was when he won championships, yet thats when his #'s were at their best, maybe he shouldve stopped caring a long time before that, but I think Shaqs just preaching cliches, more importantly though was Shaqs mindset on winning. He had enough of the jokes, the last straw being Nick's "Hawaii" chant. That focus and drive in Shaq was not apparent when he was content just making the Finals and winning scoring titles.

coloradoyankee
10-07-2009, 02:36 PM
that list is pathetic!

my list:

1. shaq
2. duncan
3. kobe
4. wade
5. kg
6. lebron
7. dirk
8. iverson
9. kidd
10. nash

no questions about it!

sp1derm00
10-07-2009, 02:46 PM
1. Kobe
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Lebron
7. Nash
8. Dirk
9. AI
10. Kidd

Ethix11
10-07-2009, 02:58 PM
My list:
1.Duncan - 4 rings first
2.Shaq - 4 rings second
3.Kobe - 4 rings third
4.KG - 1 ring but accomplished much this decade
5.Wade - 1 ring and does it all
6.James - finals appearance and does it all
7.Kidd - finals appearances but no rings
8.Nowitzki - 1 finals appearance and great scorer
9.Iverson - 1 finals appearance and great scorer but lower efficiency
10.McGrady - Could have been great...too many injuries

JordansBulls
10-07-2009, 03:13 PM
I could see why you would think that, but the truth is he was a significantly better player by 97 than he was in year 3 and he was injured throughout alot of his early Laker career. The fact that Shaq's development stages were so dominant and eerily similar to his Prime stage, is a tribute to his greatness.

Still something changed about Shaq in those years leading up to the hiring of Phil. If not for the internal growth in Shaq maturity level, playing in the triangle wouldnt have never worked out.

Yeah something changed. There was no more Prime Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Alonzo, Deke, etc to deal with. There was basically no dominant centers to deal with.

jim51990
10-08-2009, 12:41 AM
anyone putting wade above lebron is dead wrong one win is not good enough to put a player who is not close to as good and who was close to nonexistent for 2 of his 6 years

PurpleJesus
10-08-2009, 12:53 AM
McGrady over Nash?

Chronz
10-08-2009, 02:38 AM
Yeah something changed. There was no more Prime Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Alonzo, Deke, etc to deal with. There was basically no dominant centers to deal with.
LOL no, not really

PS how did you go from praising Shaq to bashing him one swoop?

ink
10-08-2009, 02:47 AM
:laugh2:

This dude is on crack. How the hell is Shaq 6th for the decade when the man has 4 titles, 3 finals mvp's, 1 season mvp and some of the best season and finals ever all time in this decade alone?


Also how the hell could KG be 2nd when he has only made it to the 2nd round two times in this decade alone?

Because he realizes correctly that teams win titles, not individuals.

ink
10-08-2009, 02:48 AM
McGrady over Nash?

That is pretty funny. Even McGrady over Carter is pretty funny and I'm not a Carter fan.

Penetra8r
10-08-2009, 02:59 AM
Dirk over Shaq?

BenFrank
10-08-2009, 03:32 AM
I can't see how McGrady could be ahead of Iverson.. to all the McGrady supporters..

Iverson might of had a defensive team... when he went to the nba championship, but he was really the only true scorer on that team, so he put the team on his back and got out of the first round on multiple occasion, before going to the championship.. he didn't get to play with Yao.. Yao and Mcgrady couldn't get past the first round and they had a 2-0 lead on dallas.. which gave them HCA.. and if u go to the play-offs 7 times u should get out of the first round atleast once..

People say Iverson wasn't a good defender.. but he led the league in steels for many years

and last but not least.. Iverson has a MVP on his resume.. a 4 time scoring champ at 6'0ft tall, and ranked 2nd on the active scorers list..

there's no way Mcgrady should be ahead of him on this list

ChiSox219
10-08-2009, 03:41 AM
We're all on drugs, if youve ever drank coffee you are a drug user

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11011034&postcount=44

Read this, in it I clearly say Id rank Kobe #1, so hopefully that cheers you up. That doesnt change the fact that this is a pretty decent list compared to most Ive seen, the reason doesnt have so much to do with where they placed players, but the overall selection of players is spot on. AI barely making this list is much better than having him 7th or top 5 like Ive seen in others. And while the selection of KG over Kobe is asinine, you can make a much better case for KG over Kobe than you could for AI being that good.

Shaq is such a hard case because if we were to treat every year as its own separate game, Shaq would be the most inconsistent player on this list, but yea probably underrated.

Could you elaborate on that? If you think Kobe is better I can understand that but I think the two are very close as far as performance over the last decade.

Chronz
10-08-2009, 03:48 AM
I can't see how McGrady could be ahead of Iverson.. to all the McGrady supporters..

Iverson might of had a defensive team... when he went to the nba championship, but he was really the only true scorer on that team, so he put the team on his back
He was the only scorer on the team because he was unable to adapt his playing style and remain an efficient force without hogging the ball, as such any partner that they tried to pair AI with fared poorly. So they did the only logical thing a GM could do, surround the guy with defenders, let him play the only way he knows how, and hope its enough to win.

He put that team on his back, but Tmac has proven capable of carrying the load and doing so without compromising the play of his teammates with his inability to operate without the ball shooting wise.


and got out of the first round on multiple occasion, before going to the championship.. he didn't get to play with Yao..
By the time Tmac got Yao he was past his prime but even at that stage was a comparable player to AI, the reason they didnt get past the first round was because Yao's dominance was mitigated by the team with the best ability to do so, Dallas went small which made Deke an important player and often more effective than Yao himself, The Jazz didnt have to go small, Boozer abused Yao (Notice how horrible Boozer played in the series vs Hayes), the Blazers had true centers and an average defensive mindset, and Yao could be exploited to no end.


Yao and Mcgrady couldn't get past the first round and they had a 2-0 lead on dallas.. which gave them HCA..
Yao was not a dominant player at that stage in his career, the mere fact that Houston went up 2-0 even though they were starting Ryan Bowen (Remember him?) is a testament to just how much Tmac can get out of his squads. IIRC he had to hit a game winning shot to go up 2-0. It doesnt change the fact that Dallas was the much healthier, deeper, stronger team that could easily bounce back considering Houstons weak Home Record, and the Mavs road record.


and if u go to the play-offs 7 times u should get out of the first round atleast once..

Why should I expect Tmac to have to do more to win, when all AI had to do was get lit up, chuck his way out of any problem?


People say Iverson wasn't a good defender.. but he led the league in steels for many years

lol yea you sure made your case with that one. Hey he has a bunch of steals, YEAH!!!


and last but not least.. Iverson has a MVP on his resume.. a 4 time scoring champ at 6'0ft tall, and ranked 2nd on the active scorers list..
there's no way Mcgrady should be ahead of him on this list


Put their resume and stats into proper context (their teammates, and competition) and the reality is clear. Tmac is EASILY above AI. Sadly because of AI's iconic stature off the court, his on court contributions are greatly exaggerated. Yes 2nd on all time scorers list, who wouldnt be with such absurdly low efficiency and high usage.

Chronz
10-08-2009, 03:50 AM
Could you elaborate on that? If you think Kobe is better I can understand that but I think the two are very close as far as performance over the last decade.
Im appeasing the Kobe fan boy allright ask me later

Chronz
10-08-2009, 03:52 AM
OK some Laker fan on CL put me in my place on this one, Shaq deserves to be in the top4 discussion.

And Nash was an MVP winner, but outside of that what does he have?

BenFrank
10-08-2009, 09:49 AM
He was the only scorer on the team because he was unable to adapt his playing style and remain an efficient force without hogging the ball, as such any partner that they tried to pair AI with fared poorly. So they did the only logical thing a GM could do, surround the guy with defenders, let him play the only way he knows how, and hope its enough to win.

He put that team on his back, but Tmac has proven capable of carrying the load and doing so without compromising the play of his teammates with his inability to operate without the ball shooting wise.


By the time Tmac got Yao he was past his prime but even at that stage was a comparable player to AI, the reason they didnt get past the first round was because Yao's dominance was mitigated by the team with the best ability to do so, Dallas went small which made Deke an important player and often more effective than Yao himself, The Jazz didnt have to go small, Boozer abused Yao (Notice how horrible Boozer played in the series vs Hayes), the Blazers had true centers and an average defensive mindset, and Yao could be exploited to no end.


Yao was not a dominant player at that stage in his career, the mere fact that Houston went up 2-0 even though they were starting Ryan Bowen (Remember him?) is a testament to just how much Tmac can get out of his squads. IIRC he had to hit a game winning shot to go up 2-0. It doesnt change the fact that Dallas was the much healthier, deeper, stronger team that could easily bounce back considering Houstons weak Home Record, and the Mavs road record.


Why should I expect Tmac to have to do more to win, when all AI had to do was get lit up, chuck his way out of any problem?


lol yea you sure made your case with that one. Hey he has a bunch of steals, YEAH!!!



Put their resume and stats into proper context (their teammates, and competition) and the reality is clear. Tmac is EASILY above AI. Sadly because of AI's iconic stature off the court, his on court contributions are greatly exaggerated. Yes 2nd on all time scorers list, who wouldnt be with such absurdly low efficiency and high usage.

All i see here is a bunch of excuses... are u that much of a T-Mac fanboy?

JayW_1023
10-08-2009, 10:07 AM
People say Iverson wasn't a good defender.. but he led the league in steels for many years


It's comments like these that really draw my ire. AI's idea of defense is gambing for steals...which is not good on the ball defense. In fact, that kind of defense makes players vulnerable to get passed and it puts alot of pressure on the big guys to help. Steals don't say jack about good defense...and neither do blocks for that matter.

BkOriginalOne
10-08-2009, 10:29 AM
1. Duncan
2. Shaq (You can argue about these top two all day)
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Lebron
7. Allen Iverson
8. Dirk
9. Kidd
10. Pierce

JordansBulls
10-08-2009, 10:51 AM
I can't see how McGrady could be ahead of Iverson.. to all the McGrady supporters..

Iverson might of had a defensive team... when he went to the nba championship, but he was really the only true scorer on that team, so he put the team on his back and got out of the first round on multiple occasion, before going to the championship.. he didn't get to play with Yao.. Yao and Mcgrady couldn't get past the first round and they had a 2-0 lead on dallas.. which gave them HCA.. and if u go to the play-offs 7 times u should get out of the first round atleast once..

People say Iverson wasn't a good defender.. but he led the league in steels for many years

and last but not least.. Iverson has a MVP on his resume.. a 4 time scoring champ at 6'0ft tall, and ranked 2nd on the active scorers list..

there's no way Mcgrady should be ahead of him on this list


Iverson should be ahead of Mcgrady as well. He has won at least 5 playoff series while Mcgrady hasn't even won one. Iverson is 4-0 in series with HCA and Mcgrady is 0-2. And Iverson actually has a MVP.

KnicksorBust
10-08-2009, 11:26 AM
It's comments like these that really draw my ire. AI's idea of defense is gambing for steals...which is not good on the ball defense. In fact, that kind of defense makes players vulnerable to get passed and it puts alot of pressure on the big guys to help. Steals don't say jack about good defense...and neither do blocks for that matter.

It "draws my ire" (word of the day toilet paper?) to see people claim steals and blocks don't help prove good defense. They lead to turnovers, they lead to fastbreaks with easy baskets, and additionally they lead to an unknown impact on the psyche of the opposing team.

A player like Hakeem Olajuwon was known as one of the great defenders of all-time and if I had to defend that, I see nothing wrong with pointing out his amazing ability to block shots and get steals.

I agree it's not all you can use, but you can't complain about someone using it by saying blocks and steals don't mean jack. That's not true either and that makes you look just as ignorant.

JordansBulls
10-08-2009, 02:00 PM
He was the only scorer on the team because he was unable to adapt his playing style and remain an efficient force without hogging the ball, as such any partner that they tried to pair AI with fared poorly. So they did the only logical thing a GM could do, surround the guy with defenders, let him play the only way he knows how, and hope its enough to win.

He put that team on his back, but Tmac has proven capable of carrying the load and doing so without compromising the play of his teammates with his inability to operate without the ball shooting wise.


By the time Tmac got Yao he was past his prime but even at that stage was a comparable player to AI, the reason they didnt get past the first round was because Yao's dominance was mitigated by the team with the best ability to do so, Dallas went small which made Deke an important player and often more effective than Yao himself, The Jazz didnt have to go small, Boozer abused Yao (Notice how horrible Boozer played in the series vs Hayes), the Blazers had true centers and an average defensive mindset, and Yao could be exploited to no end.


Yao was not a dominant player at that stage in his career, the mere fact that Houston went up 2-0 even though they were starting Ryan Bowen (Remember him?) is a testament to just how much Tmac can get out of his squads. IIRC he had to hit a game winning shot to go up 2-0. It doesnt change the fact that Dallas was the much healthier, deeper, stronger team that could easily bounce back considering Houstons weak Home Record, and the Mavs road record.


Why should I expect Tmac to have to do more to win, when all AI had to do was get lit up, chuck his way out of any problem?


lol yea you sure made your case with that one. Hey he has a bunch of steals, YEAH!!!



Put their resume and stats into proper context (their teammates, and competition) and the reality is clear. Tmac is EASILY above AI. Sadly because of AI's iconic stature off the court, his on court contributions are greatly exaggerated. Yes 2nd on all time scorers list, who wouldnt be with such absurdly low efficiency and high usage.


So are you saying that Iverson on the Rockets from 2005-2009 and Mcgrady on the Sixers from 1999-2005 have similar results, same results, better results for the Sixers with Mcgrady and worse results for the Rockets and Iverson???

Also which years or versions of the guys? Because 2001 T-mac isn't the same as 2001 Iverson.

albertc86
10-08-2009, 02:48 PM
I don't mind TD being #1 but KG over Kobe? No way. If it was fantasy basketball, then maybe, but not in the real world. That was a terrible call. I the the majority of the GM's in the league would've picked Kobe over KG.

NBAfan4life
10-08-2009, 03:16 PM
I agree with Ben Frank and jordansbulls on the AI Tmac debate. I'm not a fan of AI either nor do I support his style of play. He did get results though

Chronz
10-08-2009, 05:11 PM
All i see here is a bunch of excuses... are u that much of a T-Mac fanboy?

Excuses can be proven as fallible, FACTS are irrefutable, good luck on your mission.

Chronz
10-08-2009, 05:14 PM
So are you saying that Iverson on the Rockets from 2005-2009 and Mcgrady on the Sixers from 1999-2005 have similar results, same results, better results for the Sixers with Mcgrady and worse results for the Rockets and Iverson???

Also which years or versions of the guys? Because 2001 T-mac isn't the same as 2001 Iverson.
Its really this simple, offensively Tmac was better, defensively Tmac was MUCH better, rebounding Tmac was better. The only thing AI has going for him are undeserved hardware and iconic stature.

Strictly in terms of performance and impact its a no contest. Paul Pierce can make a better case than AI could, and hes one of the least heralded superstars of our era. Hes NEVER been an MVP candidate and has never cracked an All-NBA 1st team.

Chronz
10-08-2009, 05:16 PM
I agree with Ben Frank and jordansbulls on the AI Tmac debate. I'm not a fan of AI either nor do I support his style of play. He did get results though

Yea he sure did, becoming one of the most inefficient players of any era, with very little defensive impact. Ill take the guy who can win me games, over the oppertunistic player whos made to look better than he really is because of his popularity and cult status.

JordansBulls
10-08-2009, 07:17 PM
Its really this simple, offensively Tmac was better, defensively Tmac was MUCH better, rebounding Tmac was better. The only thing AI has going for him are undeserved hardware and iconic stature.

Strictly in terms of performance and impact its a no contest. Paul Pierce can make a better case than AI could, and hes one of the least heralded superstars of our era. Hes NEVER been an MVP candidate and has never cracked an All-NBA 1st team.

You can't be serious? Iverson has won at least 5 playoff series, 4 of them with HCA and is 4-0 in series with HCA. T-mac has won 0 playoff series despite having at times the best center in the league in Yao Ming. He is 0-2 in series with HCA and is 0-5 in series without it. Now he was only to win the 2 series with HCA which were in 2007 and 2008. For the record, 2008 wouldn't be held against him considering Yao was out, however the team did still win 12 games in a row without Yao, so they were still better.

ChiSox219
10-08-2009, 07:45 PM
Yea he sure did, becoming one of the most inefficient players of any era, with very little defensive impact. Ill take the guy who can win me games, over the oppertunistic player whos made to look better than he really is because of his popularity and cult status.

If there is a "10 most overrated players of the decade" list, Iverson has be at #1

Chronz
10-08-2009, 09:32 PM
You can't be serious? Iverson has won at least 5 playoff series, 4 of them with HCA and is 4-0 in series with HCA. T-mac has won 0 playoff series despite having at times the best center in the league in Yao Ming. He is 0-2 in series with HCA and is 0-5 in series without it. Now he was only to win the 2 series with HCA which were in 2007 and 2008. For the record, 2008 wouldn't be held against him considering Yao was out, however the team did still win 12 games in a row without Yao, so they were still better.
Refer to my initial post for proper context and not blind stats

magichatnumber9
10-08-2009, 09:46 PM
When will people realize that a championship is not a personal stat?

Hellcrooner
10-08-2009, 10:32 PM
1 duncan

2 shaq

3 Kobe


and for gods sake what the hell is the Kraut choker doing in that list?

PrettyBoyJ
10-08-2009, 10:52 PM
Kobe and K.G. Should Swap places.. Kobe Clearly dominated this decade

Chronz
10-08-2009, 11:11 PM
1 duncan

2 shaq

3 Kobe


and for gods sake what the hell is the Kraut choker doing in that list?

You dont like Dirk do you

Hellcrooner
10-08-2009, 11:18 PM
i do like dirk.

He is an euro after all.

bu he s way overate by people.

Chronz
10-08-2009, 11:33 PM
i do like dirk.

He is an euro after all.

bu he s way overate by people.

Hes one of the best playoff performers of our time, very few have raised their game as substantially as he has in terms of Reg. vs Playoffs.

I know you called him a choker but WHY?

Hellcrooner
10-08-2009, 11:38 PM
06 finals 2-0 big CHOKE.

then 1st seed upset by an 8th seed that was there by a casualty ( next year they sucked) CHOKE.


Germany Team..yeah they are no Spain or Argentina but yet have good players to at least take some Bronze or siver medals in euros.

10 years only 1 Medal and thy have missed many world cups and olympcis in that span.

CHOKE.


He woudl be an ASHTOUNDING Leutenant to a real superstar, jsut like Pau has become leutenant to Kobe.

But as a leader he is not valid, yes he put ups great numbers but overalll he Chokes.

And of course he belongs nowhere in a top 10 of the deacade list

Chronz
10-09-2009, 12:10 AM
06 finals 2-0 big CHOKE.
What about the series before that against the Spurs he didnt look like a choke artist then, why does it matter if he was up 2-0? Its not any different from being down 0-2 and coming back to win the series (Which Dirk has done). These things just happen, they won the first 2 and lost the rest, how does that mean he choked, it seems more like he lost to a better team that was properly equipped to defend him.


then 1st seed upset by an 8th seed that was there by a casualty ( next year they sucked) CHOKE.

That was a team of destiny, they had all the breaks going for them, he was going up against the guy who knew everything the Mavs liked to do, and his coach was THOROUGHLY outclassed. If anyone choked that series it was Avery and Dirks teammates.


Germany Team..yeah they are no Spain or Argentina but yet have good players to at least take some Bronze or siver medals in euros.

10 years only 1 Medal and thy have missed many world cups and olympcis in that span.

CHOKE.

No comment


He woudl be an ASHTOUNDING Leutenant to a real superstar, jsut like Pau has become leutenant to Kobe.

But as a leader he is not valid, yes he put ups great numbers but overalll he Chokes.

And of course he belongs nowhere in a top 10 of the deacade list

Well who would you put in front of him, chances are those guys have "choked" much harder than he has, you just arent putting their failures under such extreme scrutiny because they arent under the Euro microscope

I really dont see how you can dismiss his dominance and say overall he chokes

Rocco007
10-09-2009, 01:19 AM
Ask KG and Duncan ...who is the best player of the last 10 years?...lol...

Hands down...KB24

KnicksorBust
10-09-2009, 11:09 AM
When will people realize that a championship is not a personal stat?

If your the best player on that team then it damn sure adds to your resume.

BenFrank
10-09-2009, 12:00 PM
Excuses can be proven as fallible, FACTS are irrefutable, good luck on your mission.

Chronz i think u have fact's and opinion's mixed up there buddy.. In my post.. I listed fact's.. and u responded to my post with opinions.. that's why when u responded to me.. it went in one ear and out the other.. and another thing to kill your little argument.. AI will be a first ballot hall of famer one day.. U think T-Mac will be???

JordansBulls
10-09-2009, 12:53 PM
Ask KG and Duncan ...who is the best player of the last 10 years?...lol...

Hands down...KB24

It's not hands down anyone.

bigsams50
10-09-2009, 12:57 PM
Ask KG and Duncan ...who is the best player of the last 10 years?...lol...

Hands down...KB24

KG would prolly say Pierce ahahhaha, as i'd put duncan over KB, he wont all 4 of his championships as the number guy, not playing second fiddle to the most dominant center ever

G-Funk
10-09-2009, 02:06 PM
KG would prolly say Pierce ahahhaha, as i'd put duncan over KB, he wont all 4 of his championships as the number guy, not playing second fiddle to the most dominant center ever

He won 3 as the number 1 guy.

Ansy
10-09-2009, 02:44 PM
He won 3 as the number 1 guy.

You don't actually think Tony Parker was better than Duncan the year he won finals MVP do you?

bigsams50
10-09-2009, 02:45 PM
He won 3 as the number 1 guy.

3 is more than one last time i checked

ragee
10-09-2009, 03:56 PM
What about Steve Nash?

OBredskin
10-09-2009, 04:03 PM
T-Mac????...rather have Vince Carter or Gilbert Arenas on that list...at least they've played more than 20 games the last six years.

Chronz
10-09-2009, 04:55 PM
T-Mac????...rather have Vince Carter or Gilbert Arenas on that list...at least they've played more than 20 games the last six years.
I love how mostly everyone who has voted against Tmac has proven themselves totally devoid of rationale and seemingly out of touch with the league.

Chronz
10-09-2009, 04:58 PM
Chronz i think u have fact's and opinion's mixed up there buddy..
Opinions can be proven as fallible, facts are yadda yadda yadda good luck on your endeavor


In my post.. I listed fact's..
Yes you did


and u responded to my post with opinions..
No its called putting those facts into context. LOL really now man, REALLY... Its my OPINION that AI had the best defense in the conference supporting him, that he got ouplayed by every star in that run, that he couldnt defend his own position. God your in deep denial there, you sure you dont support AI? You share many of the same traits that his fanbase does.


that's why when u responded to me.. it went in one ear and out the other..
How is that not surprising


and another thing to kill your little argument.. AI will be a first ballot hall of famer one day.. U think T-Mac will be???

No for the reasons stated above. Really thats the best you got, thats what killed my little argument? LMFAO

BALLER71
10-09-2009, 05:18 PM
Shaq 6th?
KEVIN GARNETT over Kobe Bryant? Man I'm not a big Bryant fan but... what's the reasoning behind that?
Who ever made this list is stupid.

ragee
10-15-2009, 03:46 PM
Shaq 6th?
KEVIN GARNETT over Kobe Bryant? Man I'm not a big Bryant fan but... what's the reasoning behind that?
Who ever made this list is stupid.

KG did a lot this decade... People just fail to realize it because he was in Minnesota...

effen5
10-15-2009, 11:50 PM
1) TD
2) Shaq
3)Kobe
4) KG

JordansBulls
10-30-2009, 07:04 PM
I love how mostly everyone who has voted against Tmac has proven themselves totally devoid of rationale and seemingly out of touch with the league.

Why is this?

ko8e24
10-30-2009, 07:52 PM
Now that I think about it...

I feel its Shaq-Duncan-Kobe all tied to be honest with you. Shaq was the most dominant, Duncan kept the Spurs atop all decade, and Kobe showed the league how you should score and take over a game on a consistent basis throught an entire season. Kobe made the SG position that much greater when people thought there wouldn't be another great SG after MJ retired, Shaq's dominance made people wonder how the heck would other great big men from the past like Kareem, Wilt, Russell, and Prime Hakeem be able to match up to him. Tim Duncan took away that "best PF ever" title away from the Mailman and made the Spurs the most respectable franchise in NBA history. All 3 guys have multiple nba titles to show for it, finals mvp, league mvp, ASG mvp, played for their countries, 2 of the 3 won ROY, 2 of the 3 won scoring titles.


it's O'Neal, Bryant and Duncan.

and then.....

Garnett

and then...

AI-JKIDD-Lebron-Wade Etc.

bigsams50
10-30-2009, 07:53 PM
^ I can agree with that