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JordansBulls
10-05-2009, 12:22 AM
How did the Minnesota T-wolves in 2004 go from the #1 seed and 58 wins to not even making the playoffs in 2005 with the same team and winning 44 games?

IRUAM #21
10-05-2009, 12:33 AM
By winning less games.

D Blue987
10-05-2009, 12:40 AM
By winning less games.

Smart *** comment but I still LOL'd. :p

loveofthegame87
10-05-2009, 01:06 AM
sam cassell was still going through his back injury and latrell sprewell was dealing with contract disputes.

boeknows
10-05-2009, 01:11 AM
yeah that was the year Spreewell told the Wolves he couldnt feed his kids for the $10 mil he was making from them. Ironically that was the last year Spree played in the NBA.

GiantMetKnick
10-05-2009, 01:39 AM
Relevance? Importance?

Anyway, I suppose injuries (including injuries the media may not have been aware of), team chemistry issues, and the Sprewell reason above me could have all factored in. They were also one year older, and maybe other teams got better.

But really, this thread is lame.

brandonwarne52
10-05-2009, 01:56 AM
One word:

Schism.

B.JenningsMVP
10-05-2009, 02:14 AM
They just did.

BkOriginalOne
10-05-2009, 02:30 AM
Injuries, and Sprewell issues.

iggypop123
10-05-2009, 03:04 AM
joe smith leftover and injuries and sprewell must have a zoo to need 15 million to feed kids

JordansBulls
10-05-2009, 08:37 AM
Relevance? Importance?

Anyway, I suppose injuries (including injuries the media may not have been aware of), team chemistry issues, and the Sprewell reason above me could have all factored in. They were also one year older, and maybe other teams got better.

But really, this thread is lame.

Yeah it is relevant it is a basketball forum.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 12:00 PM
Cassell demanding a new contract and missing 30 games due to injury, Sprewell demanding a new contract, therefore playing half ***, which demotivated both of them. Wally being back, and their defensive hunger gone.
Really boils down the the selfishness of Cassell and Spree. Simple as that. They both wanted thier money, didn't get it, and pouted. That, and with some minor personel changes, the Wolves defense became a lot worse. Anytime Wally plays a lot, your defense suffers.

Raph12
10-05-2009, 12:19 PM
Cassell demanding a new contract and missing 30 games due to injury, Sprewell demanding a new contract, therefore playing half ***, which demotivated both of them. Wally being back, and their defensive hunger gone.
Really boils down the the selfishness of Cassell and Spree. Simple as that. They both wanted thier money, didn't get it, and pouted. That, and with some minor personel changes, the Wolves defense became a lot worse. Anytime Wally plays a lot, your defense suffers.

This

kEviN21
10-05-2009, 12:27 PM
Relevance? Importance?

Anyway, I suppose injuries (including injuries the media may not have been aware of), team chemistry issues, and the Sprewell reason above me could have all factored in. They were also one year older, and maybe other teams got better.

But really, this thread is lame.

Noob. Jordanbulls is highly respected as a thread maker.

Sam Cassell was constantly injured, Sprewell had $ issues, draft picks were useless...The T'wolves needed to improve that offseason and they got worst.

#2004-2005 MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES ROSTER#

NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS DOB FROM
== ====== === == == === === ====
7 Anthony Carter G 6-2 195 4 6/16/75 Hawaii
8 Latrell Sprewell G 6-5 195 11 9/8/70 Alabama
10 Wally Szczerbiak F 6-7 244 4 3/5/77 Miami Ohio
12 John Thomas F 6-8 270 5 9/8/75 Minnesota
16 Troy Hudson G 6-1 175 6 3/13/76 Southern Ill
19 Sam Cassell G 6-3 185 10 11/18/69 Florida St
21 Kevin Garnett F 6-11 220 8 5/19/76 Farragut Academy (IL) HS
23 Trenton Hassell G 6-5 200 2 3/4/79 Austin Peay
32 Fred Hoiberg G 6-5 210 8 10/15/72 Iowa St
34 Michael Olowokandi C 7-0 270 5 4/3/75 Pacific
35 I-Mark Madsen F 6-9 236 3 1/28/76 Stanford
40 Ervin Johnson C 6-11 255 10 12/21/67 New Orleans
41 Eddie Griffin F 6-10 232 2 5/30/82 Seton Hall
44 I-Ndudi Ebi F 6-9 195 1 6/18/84 Westbury Christian (TX)


In 05-06, it was Ricky Davis/Marcus Banks/Marko Jaric which is self-explanatory.

SpeeMN
10-05-2009, 12:36 PM
Kevin Mchale was still in charge. He somehow had an alright team and managed to mess it up.

How?
He fired Flip Sanders in Feb '05 and replaced him with...... HIMSELF(mchale).

Atleast he is gone now.

Chronz
10-05-2009, 01:04 PM
Spree was 33 and Sam I Am was 34, the age when most players begin to fall off. Something Spree did completely the very next year, the drop off in his game was beyond dramatic, he had like zero dunks that year. Sam was still a serviceable player but no longer an all-star. From 1 year to the next the offense didnt suffer, Wallys addition to the team made up for the loss of Sam, however had they had him they couldve theoretically been in the top 3-5 offensive teams in the league, an act that wouldve given them atleast 48-50wins if their defense didnt suffer too much.

But without him, and with Wally playing so many minutes the drop off defensively was the primary factor. As for what shouldve been done to prevent this drop off then you have to blame McHale, he threw too much money at Troy Hudson and Olowakandi. And followed that up by handing the Clippers their only playoff appearance this decade and a first rounder to go with it, all for the right to overpay Marko Jaric.

BRILLIANT man but I love him for it

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 01:39 PM
Spree was 33 and Sam I Am was 34, the age when most players begin to fall off. Something Spree did completely the very next year, the drop off in his game was beyond dramatic, he had like zero dunks that year. Sam was still a serviceable player but no longer an all-star. From 1 year to the next the offense didnt suffer, Wallys addition to the team made up for the loss of Sam, however had they had him they couldve theoretically been in the top 3-5 offensive teams in the league, an act that wouldve given them atleast 48-50wins if their defense didnt suffer too much.

But without him, and with Wally playing so many minutes the drop off defensively was the primary factor. As for what shouldve been done to prevent this drop off then you have to blame McHale, he threw too much money at Troy Hudson and Olowakandi. And followed that up by handing the Clippers their only playoff appearance this decade and a first rounder to go with it, all for the right to overpay Marko Jaric.

BRILLIANT man but I love him for it


they also peaked with vets who wanted to win at the right time. Cassell and Spree probably wouldn't have had that dropoff had they not been pouting about their contract situations. Cassell's injury kept them from the 8th seed most likely. As I said, and you hit it, Wally on the floor for 80 games at 35 mpg hurts your defense.
And those weren't the only bad decisions that led to their downfall. They had zero influx of youth, due to the Joe Smith penalties. In fact, I could write a book on the mistakes of Mr McHale.

Chronz
10-05-2009, 01:53 PM
they also peaked with vets who wanted to win at the right time. Cassell and Spree probably wouldn't have had that dropoff had they not been pouting about their contract situations. Cassell's injury kept them from the 8th seed most likely. As I said, and you hit it, Wally on the floor for 80 games at 35 mpg hurts your defense.
And those weren't the only bad decisions that led to their downfall. They had zero influx of youth, due to the Joe Smith penalties. In fact, I could write a book on the mistakes of Mr McHale.

Yea the no draft picks hurt them alot but there is no way around their decline. Spree in a contract year shouldve shown he was worth the money, not regressed to the point where even with his name wasnt able to get much. I guess he couldve played less than his abilities, but a drop off that severe isnt going to change much as a result of motivation.

You could make a case for Sam Cassell though, he was projected as still being an all-star caliber player that year, maybe his contract situation coupled with his injuries hurt him, because he was basically the same player for us that he was for you guys except he was healthy.

Silent
10-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Noob. Jordanbulls is highly respected as a thread maker.

Sam Cassell was constantly injured, Sprewell had $ issues, draft picks were useless...The T'wolves needed to improve that offseason and they got worst.

#2004-2005 MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES ROSTER#

NO. PLAYER POS HT WT YRS DOB FROM
== ====== === == == === === ====
7 Anthony Carter G 6-2 195 4 6/16/75 Hawaii
8 Latrell Sprewell G 6-5 195 11 9/8/70 Alabama
10 Wally Szczerbiak F 6-7 244 4 3/5/77 Miami Ohio
12 John Thomas F 6-8 270 5 9/8/75 Minnesota
16 Troy Hudson G 6-1 175 6 3/13/76 Southern Ill
19 Sam Cassell G 6-3 185 10 11/18/69 Florida St
21 Kevin Garnett F 6-11 220 8 5/19/76 Farragut Academy (IL) HS
23 Trenton Hassell G 6-5 200 2 3/4/79 Austin Peay
32 Fred Hoiberg G 6-5 210 8 10/15/72 Iowa St
34 Michael Olowokandi C 7-0 270 5 4/3/75 Pacific
35 I-Mark Madsen F 6-9 236 3 1/28/76 Stanford
40 Ervin Johnson C 6-11 255 10 12/21/67 New Orleans
41 Eddie Griffin F 6-10 232 2 5/30/82 Seton Hall
44 I-Ndudi Ebi F 6-9 195 1 6/18/84 Westbury Christian (TX)


In 05-06, it was Ricky Davis/Marcus Banks/Marko Jaric which is self-explanatory.

that made me LOL'd. :p:p:p

Back to the question u had a ageing team

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 01:58 PM
Yea the no draft picks hurt them alot but there is no way around their decline. Spree in a contract year shouldve shown he was worth the money, not regressed to the point where even with his name wasnt able to get much. I guess he couldve played less than his abilities, but a drop off that big isnt going to change much as a result of motivation.

You could make a case for Sam Cassell though, he was projected as still being an all-star caliber player that year, maybe his contract situation coupled with his injuries hurt him, because he was basically the same player for us that he was for you guys except he was healthy.

well, does decline hit players who couldn't dunk in college, can't jump over an inch, and is 6'3" with a jumper?
I think it was mostly injuries, but everyone knows Sam wears out his welcome after his initial year typically. He has forever whined about his contract, even though he is the one who signs the dotted line, and plays when he wants to.
Another big effect was guys like Earvin Johnson and Fred Hoiberg, who didn't show up statistically in either season really (although Fred did kill it in 3 pt % in 03-04'), had declined big time. They were such a huge part of that team on both ends of the floor.
I would like to personally thank you for reminding me of Hudson and Olowokandi's deals, haha. I thought i had removed that part of history from my mind

Chronz
10-05-2009, 02:07 PM
Yea Ervin was an underrated part of that defense, I still remember the Coast2Coast segment they had on him that year. It was a game vs Duncan where his ability to defend Duncan 1 on 1 allowed KG to help on everyone else. But Hoighberg stats were amazing, he rated as a better player than Spree offensively. He had a Shane Battier role offensively, but his efficiency was beyond amazing. 138 Offensive Rating has to be a record, even for someone with such little offensive responsibility. Too bad his defense sucked

Wisdom Listens
10-05-2009, 02:14 PM
There was just way too much going on off the court that season for the team to have any chemistry.