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View Full Version : Mark Cuban questions Ron Artest's potential impact on the Lakers



Toenail Clipper
10-03-2009, 10:37 PM
I tell you what, now that they've got Ron Artest, I couldn't think of anything better

I believe that Mark Cuban's theory of Lakers' addition of Ron Artest will result in opening up the Western Conference for several team contenders is truly false. Any thoughts?

Source: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-cubanisthankfulronar&prov=tsn&type=lgns

Trouble87
10-03-2009, 10:47 PM
Oct 30th will be a sad day for Mavs fans

I like and admire Cuban as a owner for the most part but sometimes he talks a lil too much ****

Toenail Clipper
10-03-2009, 10:57 PM
Oct 30th will be a sad day for Mavs fans

I like and admire Cuban as a owner for the most part but sometimes he talks a lil too much ****

Agreed.
Signing Ron Artest is way better than signing Shawn Marion

OA SLAY
10-03-2009, 11:37 PM
Who is Mark Cuban???

Raps18-19 Champ
10-03-2009, 11:39 PM
It could end up being one of those "make it or break it" situations.

Artest could make them way better or it could really explode in their face.

I think Cuban is wrong but I see where he is coming from.

Toenail Clipper
10-04-2009, 12:03 AM
Who is Mark Cuban???

Are you serious?

sofargone
10-04-2009, 12:04 AM
Who is Mark Cuban???

http://www.cslacker.com/images/funny/meme/demotivational/stop_that

iggypop123
10-04-2009, 01:02 AM
he travels with the team too. he can witness the destruction on october 30

Ebbs
10-04-2009, 01:14 AM
talk your smack watch us rape l akers

Toenail Clipper
10-04-2009, 01:15 AM
talk your smack watch us rape l akers

lmaooo
I'll reply to this once the Mavs get fcked in the A

Illuminati999
10-04-2009, 01:22 AM
Obviously the majority of you aren't that bright. Cuban understands that without Ron Artest around, the Lakers were still almost impossible to beat in a 7 game series. Adding Ron Artest, a potential cancer, to the team wouldn't serve any purpose because they could have done the same thing with Trevor Ariza (who is younger and getting better). Did anyone notice Ariza making some monster plays last playoff season? I understand where Cuban is coming from... why fix it if it's not broken? Ariza was already a proven SF, why risk the possibility of destroying the chemistry between your championship team for a slight upgrade at the SF spot. Not just that, but it is no doubt that Ariza will be better than Artest in 2-3 years.

Yes, we all know the Lakers can just trade Artest if he becomes a cancer... but the damage would have been done at that point... not to mention, no Ariza to fall back on.

It would be the equivalent of 3 players on Jeopardy (the TV show) betting all they had for the final round of Jeopardy, when player A has $10,100, player B has $5,000, and player C has $1,000. Why would player A bet all his money in the final jeopardy round when he automatically wins if he bets 0. If he bets all he has and gets the question wrong, he has the potential to come in last, thus, no coming back to play the game again.

Before any of you say, "This isn't Jeopardy," let me remind you it is suppose to be an analogy... so of COURSE it's not Jeopardy...

GREATNESS ONE
10-04-2009, 01:48 AM
^ ok 1st of all dude Ariza wanted more money. Artest took less to come here and if we gave Ariza the money he wanted Odom probably wouldve been gone.

2nd of all if every team in the league made an addition to try and close the gap on the Lakers how is adding one of the premier and bulldogs a bad thing.

Celtics- Wallace
Cavaliers- Shaq
Mavs- Marion
Spurs- Jefferson

Also lastly Artest does one hell of a job in guarding premier SF. Ariza did a fantastic job last year and we never wouldve won without him but adding Artest isnt going to lack in anything and will be a upgrade to the Lakers roster.

DCB/LAL
10-04-2009, 02:16 AM
It could end up being one of those "make it or break it" situations.

Artest could make them way better or it could really explode in their face.

I think Cuban is wrong but I see where he is coming from.

I agree kinda sorta but no matter what Cuban really shouldn't wanna give any extra motivation to the Lakers not that they need it or not that they haven't heard what everyone is saying but still shouldn't be the one to say it.

RISE ABOVE
10-04-2009, 02:33 AM
Cuban can kiss our 4-rings in 9 years...to his 0 in their entire history!

Lone Maverick
10-04-2009, 03:40 AM
Does anyone here honestly think the defending champs, the Lakers needed more motivation? C'mon get real. This is just Cubes talking, no need to get offended.

ink
10-04-2009, 03:47 AM
Artest will be fine. Stop living in the past. He was great with the Rockets last year and he will be great with the Lakers too. For God's sake, Phil Jackson managed Dennis Rodman, a complete freak, and won a few titles with him. He won't have any trouble with Artest. Cuban is ......... well .... not always exactly right on the money. Can I say STEVE NASH, MVP. Cuban also predicted Nash was a waste of the Phoenix Suns money. Look how that turned out. Advice: don't wager any money on a Mark Cuban prediction.

USMCLaker
10-04-2009, 01:04 PM
^Agreed, not only stop living in the past but there is nothing wrong with Artest's past. That's right I said it!!! Which one of you wouldn't have gone into the stands if some beer drinking idiot tosses his backwashed brew at you while you were chilling on the scorer's table.

Corey
10-04-2009, 01:13 PM
there is nothing wrong with Artest's past. That's right I said it!!!

:facepalm:

Come on man, I like him as a player, but the guy has been bat-**** crazy at times.

USMCLaker
10-04-2009, 01:26 PM
:facepalm:

Come on man, I like him as a player, but the guy has been bat-**** crazy at times.

I guess as compared to me he is not very crazy it that better.

aNYer
10-04-2009, 02:04 PM
^ ok 1st of all dude Ariza wanted more money. Artest took less to come here and if we gave Ariza the money he wanted Odom probably wouldve been gone.

2nd of all if every team in the league made an addition to try and close the gap on the Lakers how is adding one of the premier and bulldogs a bad thing.

Celtics- Wallace
Cavaliers- Shaq
Mavs- Marion
Spurs- Jefferson

Also lastly Artest does one hell of a job in guarding premier SF. Ariza did a fantastic job last year and we never wouldve won without him but adding Artest isnt going to lack in anything and will be a upgrade to the Lakers roster.

They won't be worse with Artest. There is a chance but I highly doubt it. As far as the money goes thats not true. You guys are way over the cap and you are a big market team that makes a lot of money so they don't care, you are allowed to go over the cap as much as you want you just have to pay the lux tax. Ariza and Artest are both making the MLE aren't they.

Merkin
10-04-2009, 02:12 PM
the Lakers arent going to get any motivation from something so petty its just Cuban being Cuban

vash9
10-04-2009, 03:18 PM
Kobe and Artest will have a fist fight..

lol. In all things serious, i think Kobe and Artest will mesh in just fine. Cuban is just talking. Like he always does.

Merkin
10-04-2009, 03:52 PM
Kobe and Artest will have a fist fight..

lol. In all things serious, i think Kobe and Artest will mesh in just fine. Cuban is just talking. Like he always does.
agreed but if they did have a fist fight ive got artest

Verbal Christ
10-04-2009, 11:09 PM
on the cool, any laker fan who really thinks artest is still premier defender is gonna need more than one universal remote for all the ticky tack fouls, kobe, bynum or the rest of the players are gonna get because artest is 'gambling' on the perimeter or truthfully has just lost a step, all this credit he's getting is totally based on past performances because you people only watched whatever playoff games were televised nationally for the rockets. trust me its all smoke and mirrors with the guy, get used to the one dribble to the left chuck shot he seems to have perfected, but hey if you need a guy to knock out the front teeth of the poor schmoe in row 1 then he's your guy. ENJOY! (PS - Thanks for Ariza)

Ethix11
10-04-2009, 11:42 PM
Ok so Artest likes to bash annoying fans like some of you. How does that ruin the TEAM chemistry? One of the top defenders in the league is only a plus. Mark Cuban isnt some know-it-all prophet. This guys got a big mouth. You cant take him seriously.

GREATNESS ONE
10-05-2009, 12:01 AM
on the cool, any laker fan who really thinks artest is still premier defender is gonna need more than one universal remote for all the ticky tack fouls, kobe, bynum or the rest of the players are gonna get because artest is 'gambling' on the perimeter or truthfully has just lost a step, all this credit he's getting is totally based on past performances because you people only watched whatever playoff games were televised nationally for the rockets. trust me its all smoke and mirrors with the guy, get used to the one dribble to the left chuck shot he seems to have perfected, but hey if you need a guy to knock out the front teeth of the poor schmoe in row 1 then he's your guy. ENJOY! (PS - Thanks for Ariza)

:rolleyes: lmao

I am not going to sit here and diss Trevor like you just did Artest. I will say this tho Ariza had a pretty good team last year to make him look good.

GREATNESS ONE
10-05-2009, 12:05 AM
They won't be worse with Artest. There is a chance but I highly doubt it. As far as the money goes thats not true. You guys are way over the cap and you are a big market team that makes a lot of money so they don't care, you are allowed to go over the cap as much as you want you just have to pay the lux tax. Ariza and Artest are both making the MLE aren't they.



Overall I agree with you there is a chance but like you I highly doubt the become worse.

I dont think we are way over the cap but I am sure we are saying that matching dollar for dollar is a helll of alot of money.

Also I believe Ariza got in the are of 6-8 mill while Artest took the MLE.

Could be wrong but hey I really cant wait for the season too start.

Shareeb_omac2
10-05-2009, 12:18 AM
Artest will be fine. Stop living in the past. He was great with the Rockets last year and he will be great with the Lakers too. For God's sake, Phil Jackson managed Dennis Rodman, a complete freak, and won a few titles with him. He won't have any trouble with Artest. Cuban is ......... well .... not always exactly right on the money. Can I say STEVE NASH, MVP. Cuban also predicted Nash was a waste of the Phoenix Suns money. Look how that turned out. Advice: don't wager any money on a Mark Cuban prediction.

Actually that's all wrong. Steve Nash hit free agency wanting a ton of money. Cuban had to choose between paying to keep him or saving money to spend on re-signing Dirk and other potential free agents. Dirk re-signed and has won an MVP also. Look at Nash now. He's lost a step and can't cover half the PGs in the NBA.
Cubans not dumb. He wasn't saying that Ron Artest is going to make you a worse team. He knows how tough the lakers are going to be. But even if teams can't beat you, now theres a chance you guys will beat yourself.

thedfactor
10-05-2009, 12:56 AM
Ron Artest is a different player than Trevor Ariza. Ariza is younger and more athletic. Artest is older and griddy. I do not think the Lakers lost anything in the swap. Don't hammer into this too much. No big deal. Oh and Marion is a better all around player than Ron Ron no question. Has had a much better career and joined with a distributor in Kidd Marion will show some signs of the Suns Matrix. No shot at Artest, but Marion was and is still capable of being that good.

Illuminati999
10-05-2009, 01:14 AM
Overall I agree with you there is a chance but like you I highly doubt the become worse.

I dont think we are way over the cap but I am sure we are saying that matching dollar for dollar is a helll of alot of money.

Also I believe Ariza got in the are of 6-8 mill while Artest took the MLE.

Could be wrong but hey I really cant wait for the season too start.

That's all Mark was saying... =) I'm glad you agree with him.

Getting Artest (horrible FG efficiency/bad temper/not a good locker room guy) could make the team worse. As far as adding any other player, I think Allen Iverson is tied with Ron Artest for the "potential to make a little better or noticeably worse" team.

rsweene
10-05-2009, 01:27 AM
Who is Mark Cuban???

get out

rsweene
10-05-2009, 01:34 AM
all this credit he's getting is totally based on past performances

Wow, I thought people are judged on what they will due in the future, :p. You mean to say that what people have done in the past is what theyre reputation is based on? Wow, i had no idea thanks for the insight jesus

GREATNESS ONE
10-05-2009, 05:30 AM
That's all Mark was saying... =) I'm glad you agree with him.

Getting Artest (horrible FG efficiency/bad temper/not a good locker room guy) could make the team worse. As far as adding any other player, I think Allen Iverson is tied with Ron Artest for the "potential to make a little better or noticeably worse" team.

:rolleyes:

I definetly think Artest will be a PLUS:D

Only 1 way to find out just sit back and watch

DenButsu
10-05-2009, 05:35 AM
I just hope Cuban insults Artest's mom. Ron surely would not be as merciful as Kenyon was.

TheDiggler
10-05-2009, 05:38 AM
I think there is no need for Mavs fans and no need for Lakers fans to be offended and bash each other. But, Lakers fans on PSD always seem to get pissed very fast if not everybody hails to Kobe, the rings, Phil Jackson and that actor there in the first row. Whatever. With Cuban it's a bit like with Kevin Garnett. Some people totally missunderstand this "always 100% attitude" and talking.

But, Lakers fans can't say, that there is no tiny little question mark behind Artest and how well he'll fit in, so as with Marion on the Mavs, too ...

#1Mavericksfan
10-05-2009, 08:37 AM
Lakers fans get emotional as hell when somebody says something about Kobe, Phil and the rest of the team...people should know by now not to pay attention to anything Mark Cuban say's yet people/Lakers fans are talking it to heart, Cuban's not even lying either with Lakers fans thinking Ron Artest is just gonna be like Rodman, the Lakers just added another ball hog to the line up with Artest to go alone with Fisher who whon't pass the ball at all, Artest has bad shot selection and is still unpredictable as hell but Lakers fans don't want to hear that, I can't wait untill these 2 team play.

Toenail Clipper
10-05-2009, 09:24 AM
Lakers fans get emotional as hell when somebody says something about Kobe, Phil and the rest of the team...people should know by now not to pay attention to anything Mark Cuban say's yet people/Lakers fans are talking it to heart, Cuban's not even lying either with Lakers fans thinking Ron Artest is just gonna be like Rodman, the Lakers just added another ball hog to the line up with Artest to go alone with Fisher who whon't pass the ball at all, Artest has bad shot selection and is still unpredictable as hell but Lakers fans don't want to hear that, I can't wait untill these 2 team play.

Artest's signing to the Lakers was for defensive reasons, not really to score
(:

Ace33Bone
10-05-2009, 09:30 AM
I think that the Mavs can contend with the Lakers... but the Mavs problem have never been the lakers their problems have lied in stopping Kobe because IMO Kobe has his greatest games against the MAVS

Verbal Christ
10-05-2009, 09:38 AM
Wow, I thought people are judged on what they will due in the future, :p. You mean to say that what people have done in the past is what theyre reputation is based on? Wow, i had no idea thanks for the insight jesus

for such a 'smart' guy you fail to grasp the point. everyone on here is saying how great ron artest will be on defense, and how much improved the lakers will be without actually researching his LATEST body of work which would be last year with houston. last year with houston he sucked, if you ask kings fan he sucked defensively the year before that too, but since you cant understand that concept i guess i should whip out the wood shape box give you the square and ask you to put it into the circle, maybe that makes more sense to the elite thinkers on here. :facepalm:

G-Funk
10-05-2009, 10:39 AM
I feel bad for the Mavs on 0ct. 30

Fayzon10
10-05-2009, 11:10 AM
Obviously the majority of you aren't that bright. Cuban understands that without Ron Artest around, the Lakers were still almost impossible to beat in a 7 game series. Adding Ron Artest, a potential cancer, to the team wouldn't serve any purpose because they could have done the same thing with Trevor Ariza (who is younger and getting better). Did anyone notice Ariza making some monster plays last playoff season? I understand where Cuban is coming from... why fix it if it's not broken? Ariza was already a proven SF, why risk the possibility of destroying the chemistry between your championship team for a slight upgrade at the SF spot. Not just that, but it is no doubt that Ariza will be better than Artest in 2-3 years.

Yes, we all know the Lakers can just trade Artest if he becomes a cancer... but the damage would have been done at that point... not to mention, no Ariza to fall back on.

It would be the equivalent of 3 players on Jeopardy (the TV show) betting all they had for the final round of Jeopardy, when player A has $10,100, player B has $5,000, and player C has $1,000. Why would player A bet all his money in the final jeopardy round when he automatically wins if he bets 0. If he bets all he has and gets the question wrong, he has the potential to come in last, thus, no coming back to play the game again.

Before any of you say, "This isn't Jeopardy," let me remind you it is suppose to be an analogy... so of COURSE it's not Jeopardy... For one Ariza just had a hell of a post season of course he's a very good defender but the shots he made was icing on the cake the law of averages says he will come back down to earth and shoot closer to his career average, Secondly I see the Artest to LA thing more like Moss to New England rather than TO to Dallas. LA like New England has strong leadership and will demand Artest to play and act a certain way. Artest respects guys who have done it before and know what their talking about hence coming to LA for the MLE and getting along well with Rick Adelman.. And on the other hand Dallas had no leadership what so ever when TO got there he was the biggest star in Dallas, and Dallas had no structure to force TO to follow so that whole thing blew up.. But we shall see it should be an interesting season

ShakeN'Bake
10-05-2009, 11:22 AM
I neglect to see where he actually "dissed" Ron Artest at. Your thread title makes it sound like he came out and said Artest sucks. There was nothing in the form of a diss in the article he voiced a legitimate concern that everyone should be thinking about with all new additions, will they be able to fit in with the team. He happens to think Artest will cause some problems that's all. Could he have said it better? yes, but once again failing to see where he "dissed" Artest.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 12:48 PM
on the cool, any laker fan who really thinks artest is still premier defender is gonna need more than one universal remote for all the ticky tack fouls, kobe, bynum or the rest of the players are gonna get because artest is 'gambling' on the perimeter or truthfully has just lost a step, all this credit he's getting is totally based on past performances because you people only watched whatever playoff games were televised nationally for the rockets. trust me its all smoke and mirrors with the guy, get used to the one dribble to the left chuck shot he seems to have perfected, but hey if you need a guy to knock out the front teeth of the poor schmoe in row 1 then he's your guy. ENJOY! (PS - Thanks for Ariza)

while this is extreme, its true. Laker fans are envisioning the Artest of old defensively. Battier guarded the other teams top player. Artest got about 8 mpg at them. He is no longer capable of guarding a premier wing for more than a quarter, tops. He can have great games, and can be more than frustrating sometimes. he tries to shoot his way out of slumps, but does it in a manner that can hurt the team.
I do think he will be willing to take a back role for the Lakers, so there should be no drop, but it is all a guess right now.
As far as Cuban, what's new? He has been putting his foot in his mouth for years. It cost him a ring, is anyone really surprised when he says something stupid?

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 12:51 PM
here is a simple way to put it. Artest is a dropoff from Ariza individually on defense. He is also an upgrade on offense. We will see which one is more severe as the season progresses.

LA_cabals
10-05-2009, 03:42 PM
for such a 'smart' guy you fail to grasp the point. everyone on here is saying how great ron artest will be on defense, and how much improved the lakers will be without actually researching his LATEST body of work which would be last year with houston. last year with houston he sucked, if you ask kings fan he sucked defensively the year before that too, but since you cant understand that concept i guess i should whip out the wood shape box give you the square and ask you to put it into the circle, maybe that makes more sense to the elite thinkers on here. :facepalm:


while this is extreme, its true. Laker fans are envisioning the Artest of old defensively. Battier guarded the other teams top player. Artest got about 8 mpg at them. He is no longer capable of guarding a premier wing for more than a quarter, tops.....


Uhhhh... Artest was on the 2nd All-Defensive Team last year. Do you understand that concept Verbal Christ, or would you like an analogy?

Verbal Christ
10-05-2009, 04:02 PM
Uhhhh... Artest was on the 2nd All-Defensive Team last year. Do you understand that concept Verbal Christ, or would you like an analogy?

so let me get this straight, you're going to judge his defensive ability on the fact some sportswriters/groupies nominated him for a popularity contest? LMFAO, why instead dont you look up the tape on how roy and kobe both abused him to the point of total anal collapse. c'mon man if you know anything about basketball you know how much fans/critics love to remember what the player used to be, but the reality remains that ron is not the ron of old, hell last year he was hobbling around here complaining that ne needed ankle surgery, so you can bold and italics me to death if you want its not going to change the fact that the lakers had a perfectly good thing going without having to add napalm to it thats all, take it how you want.

MackSnackWrap
10-05-2009, 04:11 PM
Cubans a good gm and an idiot at the same time, shyt talker

Illuminati999
10-05-2009, 04:17 PM
I just hope Cuban insults Artest's mom. Ron surely would not be as merciful as Kenyon was.

I hope he does... in the 4th quarter, Mark is going to hire a Mavericks fan in LA to go up to Artest's mom in the stands and say, "Too bad whoever knocked you up wasn't successful using the rusty old coat hanger to abort baby Ron Ron..." Then he will proceed by spilling beer on her.

Artest will then drop kick the fan in the head and jump on his neck. Mavs make an insane comeback after Artest is out!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 04:18 PM
Uhhhh... Artest was on the 2nd All-Defensive Team last year. Do you understand that concept Verbal Christ, or would you like an analogy?

why don't you tell me then? And did you watch Houston? I doubt it. Artest was not the primary defender on the other team's top wing for more than 8-12 minutes a game.
Artest made that off reputation, of which you Laker fans are currently living under the spell of.
Artest is an upgrade offensively, and as long as there is no running, he will provide good defense, but he is a step back defensively from Ariza. He just is at this point.

Illuminati999
10-05-2009, 04:26 PM
Artest's signing to the Lakers was for defensive reasons, not really to score
(:

He knows this... his point is that Artest is not the defensive stopper he once was, yet people think he is because of his past. On top of that, he was (and still is) a basket case. NOW, he is more of a jack it up kind of shooter. He would fit perfectly in the Golden State rotation. Shane Battier would be a better skill set type of player the Lakers should have gone after... or just kept Ariza.

Fayzon10
10-05-2009, 04:33 PM
why don't you tell me then? And did you watch Houston? I doubt it. Artest was not the primary defender on the other team's top wing for more than 8-12 minutes a game.
Artest made that off reputation, of which you Laker fans are currently living under the spell of.
Artest is an upgrade offensively, and as long as there is no running, he will provide good defense, but he is a step back defensively from Ariza. He just is at this point. Are u saying he can't guard the top wing players or doesnt have the skill to do it anymore or that he just didn't because Battier was there to do it?

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 04:39 PM
Are u saying he can't guard the top wing players or doesnt have the skill to do it anymore or that he just didn't because Battier was there to do it?

I am saying he isn't capable, due to age, and decline, of guarding top wing players for 38 mpg, more than a handful of games. he didn't at Sacramento the year prior either. He is slower than he used to be. A lot.
As I stated, he is still a better offensive player than Ariza. But he is a downgrade defensively. I would assume Phil will mix him, Kobe, and maybe Powell defending the top wings, to save them all. But don't look for 2003 Artest, a pit bull man to man defender, to be on that team this year. Those days are over.

Jamiecballer
10-05-2009, 04:46 PM
Artest will be fine. Stop living in the past. He was great with the Rockets last year and he will be great with the Lakers too. For God's sake, Phil Jackson managed Dennis Rodman, a complete freak, and won a few titles with him. He won't have any trouble with Artest. Cuban is ......... well .... not always exactly right on the money. Can I say STEVE NASH, MVP. Cuban also predicted Nash was a waste of the Phoenix Suns money. Look how that turned out. Advice: don't wager any money on a Mark Cuban prediction.

i think time has sufficiently proven that D'Antoni's system should be a 2X MVP and not Steve Nash. otherwise i agree with everything else. he likes to talk ****.

LA_cabals
10-05-2009, 04:53 PM
so let me get this straight, you're going to judge his defensive ability on the fact some sportswriters/groupies nominated him for a popularity contest? LMFAO, why instead dont you look up the tape on how roy and kobe both abused him to the point of total anal collapse. c'mon man if you know anything about basketball you know how much fans/critics love to remember what the player used to be, but the reality remains that ron is not the ron of old, hell last year he was hobbling around here complaining that ne needed ankle surgery, so you can bold and italics me to death if you want its not going to change the fact that the lakers had a perfectly good thing going without having to add napalm to it thats all, take it how you want.

You're right.. I should judge his defensive abilities based off of your bitter rant instead. I mean, why would I consider his achievements/awards, when I could just watch a 30 second youtube clip from 1 game last year?

Do you even know who votes for the All-Defensive teams? No, it's not "some groupies\sportswriters." Voting is done by Head Coaches, who are not allowed to vote for players on their own teams, meaning you have no idea what you're talking about. For arguments sake, however, lets say coaches were "groupies" and "love to remember what the player used to be." If that was actually the case, then wouldn't Duncan, who has the most selections ever, have made the 1st team last year.

Chronz
10-05-2009, 05:02 PM
here is a simple way to put it. Artest is a dropoff from Ariza individually on defense. He is also an upgrade on offense. We will see which one is more severe as the season progresses.
Wanna bet hes a downgrade on both ends for that team? Just name the price

They'll probably still win it all because when it comes to defending Pierce and Bron or maybe even Vince, hes one of the best equipped for the job. But throughout the course of the season he wont produce the way Ariza did.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:05 PM
Wanna bet hes a downgrade on both ends for that team? Just name the price

I personally think he will be a downgrade to LA on both ends. But I don't think it will be much on offense, if it all. But there is no way I am willing to bet he isn't. I watched about 55 games last year of Artest. The dude is a ball stopper. Part of that was Houston not having much else, but I don't know how many times the offense just stopped, he dribbled the ball out of the air, went 2 hard dribbles left, and chucked up a brick.
Defensively, the Lakers will be worse. No doubt in my mind. He will be able to occasionally stick LeBron, or Pierce for example. He just can't do it for long. Vince as well. But if they use him as their primary defender for the elite wings all season, there will be nothing left come postseason

Fayzon10
10-05-2009, 05:08 PM
I am saying he isn't capable, due to age, and decline, of guarding top wing players for 38 mpg, more than a handful of games. he didn't at Sacramento the year prior either. He is slower than he used to be. A lot.
As I stated, he is still a better offensive player than Ariza. But he is a downgrade defensively. I would assume Phil will mix him, Kobe, and maybe Powell defending the top wings, to save them all. But don't look for 2003 Artest, a pit bull man to man defender, to be on that team this year. Those days are over. I understand what your saying about 38mpg but Rons main objective in LA would be to defend so he won't need to do much heavy lifting on the offensive end with this team, I mean how long did Bruce Bowen stay at the top of his game on the defensive end? All because he didn't need to do much on the offensive end much like Ron won't need to, of course Ron want his touches and there will be time for that but honestly he would be the third or fourth option on the offensive end. I live in Sacramento and watched a ton of the games Ron played and 85 percent of the time he was guarding the top wing players here in Sacramento they didnt have anyone else to guard them, usually it was Artest and Salmons but Salmons came off the bench so that only left Artest to guard the wings cause they would never ask Martin to do it, Martin couldn't guard me. And the year before that it was Artest and Bonzi Wells to guard the wings so he did more than his share in Sac... And Ariza is a good defender but bigger wings game him problems I mean Kobe had to guard Carmelo in the west finals because Carmelo had his way with Ariza down low, Ariza just didn't have the upper body to guard him..

LA_cabals
10-05-2009, 05:11 PM
why don't you tell me then? And did you watch Houston? I doubt it. Artest was not the primary defender on the other team's top wing for more than 8-12 minutes a game.
Artest made that off reputation, of which you Laker fans are currently living under the spell of.
Artest is an upgrade offensively, and as long as there is no running, he will provide good defense, but he is a step back defensively from Ariza. He just is at this point.


I am saying he isn't capable, due to age, and decline, of guarding top wing players for 38 mpg, more than a handful of games. he didn't at Sacramento the year prior either. He is slower than he used to be. A lot.
As I stated, he is still a better offensive player than Ariza. But he is a downgrade defensively. I would assume Phil will mix him, Kobe, and maybe Powell defending the top wings, to save them all. But don't look for 2003 Artest, a pit bull man to man defender, to be on that team this year. Those days are over.


You may be right that, Artest wasn't the primary defender against other teams' best perimeter player, but that certainly doesn't mean he wasn't capable of doing it. Nor is there any way to prove your opinion that he only guarded them for 8-12 minutes, as you suggest. Nevertheless, I will agree that Battier did take a majority of the minutes, since he is considered a CAPTAIN on their team and is also a great defender.

Regardless of what you say, Artest did have a great year defensively last year, as is proved by his All-Defensive team selection. He did not make the team off any recent "reputation" because that "reputation" was last recognized in '03-'04. Yes, Artest wasn't as focused/good defensively during the '04-'05 & '06-'07 & '07-'08 seasons, thus he wasn't recognized for it either.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:13 PM
you may be partially right, but Ron carries a ton of weight compared to Bowen, and I don't see how he take that roll, he is too interested in shooting.
I think as a whole, Ron Artest doesn't improve LA's defensive efficiency.
But, only time will tell. You and I could both be wrong, haha

JNA17
10-05-2009, 05:13 PM
Defensively, the Lakers will be worse. No doubt in my mind.

wanna bet? :rolleyes:

In the playoffs, Kobe had to help ariza all the time because he just simply could not guard players like turq, melo, etc. If u don't believe me, see the games for yourself. It was a total disaster except for that steal he did at the end of 2 of the games.

championships
10-05-2009, 05:14 PM
Haters are just hoping Artest will implode cause your scared of us now and the only chance you have is if the Lakers bring themselves down. Look at the people who are around him now. Leaders like Kobe and Phil will keep him straight and locker room personalities like D-Fish and Pau.
Artest and his best friend, L.O., will blaze it before games and he will be calm and cool while the Lakers breeze to a repeat. What reason is there for him to be a problem?

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:15 PM
You may be right that, Artest wasn't the primary defender against other teams' best perimeter player, but that certainly doesn't mean he wasn't capable of doing it. Nor is there any way to prove your opinion that he only guarded them for 8-12 minutes, as you suggest. Nevertheless, I will agree that Battier did take a majority of the minutes, since he is considered a CAPTAIN on their team and is also a great defender.

Regardless of what you say, Artest did have a great year defensively last year, as is proved by his All-Defensive team selection. He did not make the team off any recent "reputation" because that "reputation" was last recognized in '03-'04. Yes, Artest wasn't as focused/good defensively during the '04-'05 & '06-'07 & '07-'08 seasons, thus he wasn't recognized for it either.


Artest was voted so, for his nationally televised performance against the King, Houston's elite team defense, and his personal reputation.
He isn't the defender he was. He can still be an elite perimeter defender, but for only small amounts of time. He is too big and heavy, and doesn't have the speed anymore.
But again, we will see. I simply think he will continue to go downhill as a defender. But, compared to what he was a few years ago, there is no way but down

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:16 PM
Haters are just hoping Artest will implode cause your scared of us now and the only chance you have is if the Lakers bring themselves down. Look at the people who are around him now. Leaders like Kobe and Phil will keep him straight and locker room personalities like D-Fish and Pau.
Artest and his best friend, L.O., will blaze it before games and he will be calm and cool while the Lakers breeze to a repeat. What reason is there for him to be a problem?

ahhh, the hater comeback. It was only a matter of time. Artest wasn't a problem last year. hell, he was the only calm one in that Phx fight. The problem is he isn't the defender he once was.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:18 PM
and Battier was guarding the other teams best player because he is a far superior defender today

ko8e24
10-05-2009, 05:18 PM
wanna bet? :rolleyes:

In the playoffs, Kobe had to help ariza all the time because he just simply could not guard players like turq, melo, etc. If u don't believe me, see the games for yourself. It was a total disaster except for that steal he did at the end of 2 of the games.

exactly

championships
10-05-2009, 05:20 PM
It doesn't matter if his offense has declined. The Lakers have plenty of other offensive weapons. All they need from him is good D and hit an occasional open shot. I think he can handle that.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:21 PM
wanna bet? :rolleyes:

In the playoffs, Kobe had to help ariza all the time because he just simply could not guard players like turq, melo, etc. If u don't believe me, see the games for yourself. It was a total disaster except for that steal he did at the end of 2 of the games.

I think we are talking about the regular season. Remember that pesky 82 games that needs to be played before the playoffs?
Artest, over 82 games, against the NBA, will not be as efficient a defender as Ariza. Especially not for the upcoming season.
If you would like to bet on that, lets go

championships
10-05-2009, 05:22 PM
ahhh, the hater comeback. It was only a matter of time. Artest wasn't a problem last year. hell, he was the only calm one in that Phx fight. The problem is he isn't the defender he once was.

I would say Cuban is a hater, wouldn't you. He has to be.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 05:25 PM
I would say Cuban is a hater, wouldn't you. He has to be.

I don't think he is a hater necessarily. But i do think he puts his foot in his mouth. Ever watched a Mavs game where they are losing? He hates any team that beats him. Ask Kenyon Martin's mother

MTar786
10-05-2009, 05:27 PM
lol.. i just love all these laker haters and their wishful thinking.. u guys are in denial. IMO the lakers will be better with artest.. they will be better offensively and hopefully defensively. ariza is one of my fav players.. his defense is amazing.. his 3 point shot became great as long as he was catching and shooting. he needed to be set up. he has become over rated.. his D was what we needed. he could not create a shot for himself. all he could do on offense was catch lobs and dunk.. or shoot a catch and shoot jumper. artest can do more on O. i dont think his hogging will be a problem. cuz now he actually has more than one other offensive player to rely on on his team. U guys have to remember that artest was the second best scorer on houston and sac town. he HAD to focus on offense. tmac was injured so much.. n shane was their best defensive player. so it only made sense for ron to run the offense.
on D i think ariza is better BUT artest is better when it comes to guarding the lebrons, pierces and melos. thats what we need him for. thats what he brings. now pls stop hating.

ps. ariza was an AMAZING pickup for houston. but pls dont try to fool ur selves into thinking he's better than ron at this point in his career

btw im not god. i cant say LA is gonna be better or worse. NONE OF US CAN> so stop trying to act like u guys know everything and know these players on a personal level. like chronz. u wanna make bets lol. its really ********. we dont know if ron is gonna make them better or way worse. (if they get worse they can trade him or just not play him). we dont know if kg is gonna break his leg. or if dirk is gonna dislocate his arm. we dont know if sheed is gonna go crazy again or if dwight becomes the next shaq all of a sudden and orlando destroys everyone. so stop acting like u know whats gonna happen when its only speculating.

championships
10-05-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't think he is a hater necessarily. But i do think he puts his foot in his mouth. Ever watched a Mavs game where they are losing? He hates any team that beats him. Ask Kenyon Martin's mother

Lol. I think he is more like a fan than an owner. He is a self made billionaire who bought a sports team. I am a laker fanatic and if I was able to buy the Lakers I know I would get pissed everytime we got beat. In fact, I do that now.

MTar786
10-05-2009, 05:31 PM
Haters are just hoping Artest will implode cause your scared of us now and the only chance you have is if the Lakers bring themselves down. Look at the people who are around him now. Leaders like Kobe and Phil will keep him straight and locker room personalities like D-Fish and Pau.
Artest and his best friend, L.O., will blaze it before games and he will be calm and cool while the Lakers breeze to a repeat. What reason is there for him to be a problem?

LO and ron ron smokin some OG just before the games in the parking lot. maybe some gods gift just before they play the celtics

bigsams50
10-05-2009, 05:34 PM
lol.. i just love all these laker haters and their wishful thinking.. u guys are in denial. IMO the lakers will be better with artest.. they will be better offensively and hopefully defensively. ariza is one of my fav players.. his defense is amazing.. his 3 point shot became great as long as he was catching and shooting. he needed to be set up. he has become over rated.. his D was what we needed. he could not create a shot for himself. all he could do on offense was catch lobs and dunk.. or shoot a catch and shoot jumper. artest can do more on O. i dont think his hogging will be a problem. cuz now he actually has more than one other offensive player to rely on on his team. U guys have to remember that artest was the second best scorer on houston and sac town. he HAD to focus on offense. tmac was injured so much.. n shane was their best defensive player. so it only made sense for ron to run the offense.
on D i think ariza is better BUT artest is better when it comes to guarding the lebrons, pierces and melos. thats what we need him for. thats what he brings. now pls stop hating.

ps. ariza was an AMAZING pickup for houston. but pls dont try to fool ur selves into thinking he's better than ron at this point in his career

btw im not god. i cant say LA is gonna be better or worse. NONE OF US CAN> so stop trying to act like u guys know everything and know these players on a personal level. like chronz. u wanna make bets lol. its really ********. we dont know if ron is gonna make them better or way worse. (if they get worse they can trade him or just not play him). we dont know if kg is gonna break his leg. or if dirk is gonna dislocate his arm. we dont know if sheed is gonna go crazy again or if dwight becomes the next shaq all of a sudden and orlando destroys everyone. so stop acting like u know whats gonna happen when its only speculating.

:eyebrow:

MTar786
10-05-2009, 05:45 PM
:eyebrow:

are u one of those kids who go to special schools?

what im trying to say is that IN MY OPINION the lakers will be better. But i cant say FOR SURE cuz i could be wrong. im not god. so everyone here should try to stop saying things are going to happen like they know the future. no one here knows ron personally. he may have worked his *** off all off season and is now the defensive stopper he once was. maybe he sucks.. but i have my opinion. n im stating my opinions like the are opinions.. not facts

bigsams50
10-05-2009, 05:48 PM
are u one of those kids who go to special schools?
what im trying to say is that IN MY OPINION the lakers will be better. But i cant say FOR SURE cuz i could be wrong. im not god. so everyone here should try to stop saying things are going to happen like they know the future. no one here knows ron personally. he may have worked his *** off all off season and is now the defensive stopper he once was. maybe he sucks.. but i have my opinion. n im stating my opinions like the are opinions.. not facts

OOOOOO, internet tough guy, And stop saying im not god, of course your not....

MTar786
10-05-2009, 05:54 PM
OOOOOO, internet tough guy, And stop saying im not god, of course your not....

:facepalm: every thread has to have a loser like you who doesnt talk any sense. just comments on others posts for nothing.

knickfan4life
10-05-2009, 05:55 PM
Mark Cuban knows NOTHING about the game of basketball tell him to make sure his business empire is not ruined, cause the mavericks aint winnin anytime soon, he needs to rebuild that team cause he is trying to add players to a team with no good core and no style of game that defines them. dirk is a great player, dont get me wrong, but hes not gonna get you the title. i love the way cuban throws money around, but always ends up getting washed up players like Kidd or Marion. hes tryin to go for the kill every year, but every year gets ****ed... artest is not gonna mess up the lakers, its the same as when rodman went to the bulls and every1 thought he was gonna mess them up. a championship team that stays together, their chemistry cannot b ruined by one bad player, artest will get kicked out if he messes around and i dunno Y IN THE WHOLE NBA cuban tlks shyt to the LAKERS lol... u wanna ignite them even more? lol its like adding gas to the fire lol... moron, but hey what else can we expect from cuban, considering he was tlkin about a players mom last season lol who was that again? hes lucky he didnt get b* tch slapped lol

JabberJaw
10-05-2009, 06:02 PM
Wow! Mark Cuban saying something to try and stir up a reaction? Never thought he would stoop to that level. haha. The same guy that traded away his PG of the future (Harris) for a PG well past his prime (Kidd). Also, the same guy who's big acquisition is Marion, who looks quite average while not in a Suns uniform. Cuban seems like he would be a GREAT person to work for, but his mouth writes checks that his @$$ can't cash. He is more of a comedian than anything.
With all that said, Artest will either propel the Lakers into being extreme favorites or at the worst bring them back to the pack in the west. I don't know how anyone can say the dude is a "cancer". He takes some questionable shots, but in no way be considered a cancer. He was a stud on the Pacers, couldn't lead a crap Sacramento team anywhere, and actually led a severely depleted Rockets team (no Yao or McGrady) to 7 games vs. the eventual Champions (Lakers). I think people are just hoping that he screws up so they throw out the "cancer" title to see if it sticks. I think the Lakers will be even better than last year. Considering, Ariza was lucky to see the court before being on a team that was so talented that he could just stick to a role. Now, you bring in a guy that shot better behind the arc, is a stronger defender at the SF position and is a much better scorer and for less than it would have cost them for Ariza? That is a no brainer. Ariza was a flat out beast, but now the Lakers will be able to run more plays out of the post and will be a much stronger defensive team. I wish Ariza the best, but he kinda shot himself in the foot when he thought he deserved more and lost the money offered to him by a guy with a better pedigree.

gr824
10-05-2009, 06:03 PM
I am saying he isn't capable, due to age, and decline, of guarding top wing players for 38 mpg, more than a handful of games. he didn't at Sacramento the year prior either. He is slower than he used to be. A lot.
As I stated, he is still a better offensive player than Ariza. But he is a downgrade defensively. I would assume Phil will mix him, Kobe, and maybe Powell defending the top wings, to save them all. But don't look for 2003 Artest, a pit bull man to man defender, to be on that team this year. Those days are over.

:speechless:

Your credibility just flew out the window ... Josh Powell is a PF, who, on very rare occasions, slides up into the 5 when other teams go 'small' against the Lakers. Phil Jackson would never ask him to guard "the top wings" from other teams except on a defensive switch here and there ... :facepalm:

EternalLakeShow
10-05-2009, 06:40 PM
OOOOOO, internet tough guy, And stop saying im not god, of course your not....

that guys nothing close to a "internet tough guy" nor is trying to act like one

but you on the other hand are a classic internet d-bag :clap:


no need for anyone to get offended by cubans comments
hes not really losing anything by saying things like that cause all the western conference is just looking for a clink in the lakers armor but only time will tell if artest will be that opening for other teams

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 07:20 PM
:speechless:

Your credibility just flew out the window ... Josh Powell is a PF, who, on very rare occasions, slides up into the 5 when other teams go 'small' against the Lakers. Phil Jackson would never ask him to guard "the top wings" from other teams except on a defensive switch here and there ... :facepalm:

then who is going to? It going to be Kobe and Artest only? They are both a little older, and need to be saved. Walton, whomever, is going to have to take some time guarding the perimeter players bro.
Love your reaction, haha. I was at a Houston game, where Mr. Powell was guarding Battier, while Ariza was shutting down Brooks.

MTar786
10-05-2009, 08:31 PM
that guys nothing close to a "internet tough guy" nor is trying to act like one

but you on the other hand are a classic internet d-bag :clap:


no need for anyone to get offended by cubans comments
hes not really losing anything by saying things like that cause all the western conference is just looking for a clink in the lakers armor but only time will tell if artest will be that opening for other teams

thanks man

AllTheWay
10-05-2009, 10:31 PM
here is a simple way to put it. Artest is a dropoff from Ariza individually on defense. He is also an upgrade on offense. We will see which one is more severe as the season progresses.

Actually, Ariza was abused individually on defense. Ariza's best work came as a team, and help defender. Individually, he is about above average.

AllTheWay
10-05-2009, 10:36 PM
then who is going to? It going to be Kobe and Artest only? They are both a little older, and need to be saved. Walton, whomever, is going to have to take some time guarding the perimeter players bro.
Love your reaction, haha. I was at a Houston game, where Mr. Powell was guarding Battier, while Ariza was shutting down Brooks.

Both Walton and Vujacic would get a go at the top wings before Phil even considered throwing Powell out there.

Hawkeye15
10-05-2009, 11:05 PM
Actually, Ariza was abused individually on defense. Ariza's best work came as a team, and help defender. Individually, he is about above average.

k

AllTheWay
10-06-2009, 12:34 AM
k

Cool Response.

Prove me wrong. I dare ya.

gr824
10-06-2009, 02:44 AM
then who is going to? It going to be Kobe and Artest only? They are both a little older, and need to be saved. Walton, whomever, is going to have to take some time guarding the perimeter players bro.
Love your reaction, haha. I was at a Houston game, where Mr. Powell was guarding Battier, while Ariza was shutting down Brooks.


Both Walton and Vujacic would get a go at the top wings before Phil even considered throwing Powell out there.

AllTheWay is correct here ... Bryant and Artest are both likely to play 35+ MPG during the regular season. Vujacic and Walton will pick up the slack from there; the Lakers also have Shannon Brown, who can defend most SGs and some smaller, quick SFs and L. A. has Morrison, too, to plug into the 2 and/or the 3 as needed [ although it is arguable whether he can guard anybody :rolleyes: ].

In addition, the Lakers have brought Mickael Gelabale to camp, along with rookie Tony Gaffney; the Laker coaches seem high on Gaffney, purportedly a hustling 3/4 'tweener', a help defender par excellence, whereas Gelabale, if healthy, is a superb 'on-ball' defender -- probably better than Ariza in that regard -- who can also use his length and quickness to disrupt the passing lanes much as Ariza did last season. The Lakers may limit their roster to only 13 players so as to avoid more LT payment come next summer, which means Gelabale and Gaffney would be 'cut' before this season commences. However, if the team expands the limit to 14 or 15, then Gelabale and/or Gaffney may provide added depth to the Lakers' defensive outlook on the perimeter ...

As to Powell: He barely played against Houston in the playoffs last season, so the game you saw with him 'on' Battier certainly was not a 'money' game; Josh did play against the Rockets more extensively during the regular season, though I do not recall him ever being assigned to guard Battier for any extended period of time [ as I said, Powell may pick up a SF on switches occasionally, but the small guys are never 'his man' by design for very long ] ...

Chronz
10-06-2009, 03:03 AM
Cool Response.

Prove me wrong. I dare ya.

He did, individually, Ariza will provide the better TEAM defense. As for their man defense, he wasnt burned as badly as Artest was throughout the year, dont get me wrong he had a good defensive season, but according to Morey Ariza rates as one of the leagues top flight defenders, above Artest.

We'll see though, Ariza's lack of bulk was something that hurt him on some nights, but overall his anticipation and ball hawking abilities compensate for those shortcomings, far more than Artests overall lack of mobility and declining athleticism

#1Mavericksfan
10-06-2009, 03:15 AM
I see Lakers fans are still getting emotional about this and it's hilarious.:laugh2:

#1Mavericksfan
10-06-2009, 03:22 AM
I neglect to see where he actually "dissed" Ron Artest at. Your thread title makes it sound like he came out and said Artest sucks. There was nothing in the form of a diss in the article he voiced a legitimate concern that everyone should be thinking about with all new additions, will they be able to fit in with the team. He happens to think Artest will cause some problems that's all. Could he have said it better? yes, but once again failing to see where he "dissed" Artest.

Great post...the title of this thread is misleading and made in order for people to spew there hate towards Cuban and the Mavs, Cuban didn't even "diss" Artest he just said he had a hard time seeing Artest giving Kobe the ball to take a game wining shot since everybody know Artest is a ball hog that'a all, people love to turn thing's around just to spew hate towards Cuban and the Mavs and that's sad.

#1Mavericksfan
10-06-2009, 03:27 AM
Mark Cuban knows NOTHING about the game of basketball tell him to make sure his business empire is not ruined, cause the mavericks aint winnin anytime soon, he needs to rebuild that team cause he is trying to add players to a team with no good core and no style of game that defines them. dirk is a great player, dont get me wrong, but hes not gonna get you the title. i love the way cuban throws money around, but always ends up getting washed up players like Kidd or Marion. hes tryin to go for the kill every year, but every year gets ****ed... artest is not gonna mess up the lakers, its the same as when rodman went to the bulls and every1 thought he was gonna mess them up. a championship team that stays together, their chemistry cannot b ruined by one bad player, artest will get kicked out if he messes around and i dunno Y IN THE WHOLE NBA cuban tlks shyt to the LAKERS lol... u wanna ignite them even more? lol its like adding gas to the fire lol... moron, but hey what else can we expect from cuban, considering he was tlkin about a players mom last season lol who was that again? hes lucky he didnt get b* tch slapped lol


Your a damm Knicks fan saying all of this trash really?...when was the last time your team won something or better yet made the damm playoffs?...you as a Knicks fan should be the last person saying like Cuban know's "NOTHING" about Basketball man please!!!....go jump on the Lakers bandwagon I'm pretty sure there some room for you.

fresh prince
10-06-2009, 05:46 AM
Wanna bet hes a downgrade on both ends for that team? Just name the price

They'll probably still win it all because when it comes to defending Pierce and Bron or maybe even Vince, hes one of the best equipped for the job. But throughout the course of the season he wont produce the way Ariza did.

Whoa! Not sure what you were planning to bet but, you should edit this post quick! You do realize that Ariza averaged:

8.9 ppg 4.3 rpg 1.8 apg, 1.7 spg , 31.6 3pfg % AND 46 % fg

All Career highs!

Ron will surpass that production in his sleep except for the fg %

We are talking about a career 16 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 2.0 spg per game player in Artest here..

I mean really..Us Laker fans over hype all of our players but now you guys are drinking the kool aid with Trevor.. Get a grip... Ariza is a solid role player on a good team not an all star caliber talent like Artest..

The Lakers are replacing a role player with an all star caliber talent..(to fill the same role)To Mark Cuban's point... whether or not Ron can handle the reduced role and fit in is what remains to be seen. But the talent level discrepancy is a no brainer. Simply put Artest is the better player

D-Leethal
10-06-2009, 06:14 AM
Your a damm Knicks fan saying all of this trash really?...when was the last time your team won something or better yet made the damm playoffs?...you as a Knicks fan should be the last person saying like Cuban know's "NOTHING" about Basketball man please!!!....go jump on the Lakers bandwagon I'm pretty sure there some room for you.

cmon don't hate on the Knicks cause of that goon....I don't agree with anything he had to say......Mavs are the only team I believe to win 50+ games in what the last 9 seasons? Cubans done a hell of a job.....and to that poster.......do you really think the Mavs is where Cuban gets all his money? Hes a billionaire without the Mavs organization, **** he owns the mavs for ***** and giggles to give him something to cheer for

GREATNESS ONE
10-06-2009, 07:09 AM
AllTheWay is correct here ... Bryant and Artest are both likely to play 35+ MPG during the regular season. Vujacic and Walton will pick up the slack from there; the Lakers also have Shannon Brown, who can defend most SGs and some smaller, quick SFs and L. A. has Morrison, too, to plug into the 2 and/or the 3 [ although it is arguable whether he can guard anybody :rolleyes: ].

In addition, the Lakers have brought Mickael Gelabale to camp, along with rookie Tony Gaffney; the Laker coaches seem high on Gaffney, purportedly a hustling 3/4 'tweener', a help defender par excellence, whereas Gelabale, if healthy, is an superb 'on-ball' defender -- probably better than Ariza in that regard -- who can also use his length and quickness to disrupt the passing lanes much as Ariza did last season. The Lakers may limit their roster to only 13 players so as to avoid more LT payment come next summer, which means Gelabale and Gaffney would be 'cut' before the season commences. However, if the team expands the limit to 14 or 15, then Gelabale and/or Gaffney may provide added depth to the Lakers' defensive outlook on the perimeter ...

As to Powell: He barely played against Houston in the playoffs last season, so the game you saw with him 'on' Battier certainly was not a 'money' game; Josh did play against the Rockets more extensively during the regular season, though I do not recall him ever being assigned to guard Battier for any extended period of time [ as I said, Powell may pick up a SF on switches occasionally, but the small guys are never 'his man' by design for very long ] ...



Lol seriously I don't know why anyone even messes with you... You have to be the most intelligent basketball mind on PSD... Glad your on our side:clap:

gr824
10-06-2009, 09:44 AM
Lol seriously I don't know why anyone even messes with you... You have to be the most intelligent basketball mind on PSD... Glad your on our side:clap:

Thanks for the compliment ... :cool:

:D :D :D

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 09:55 AM
Does your knowledge expand beyond the lakers? 29 other teams, so many forget that. And it was a regular season game I went to. Powell moved to Battier for a good period of time after being abused by Landry on two straight posessions.
The point doesn't change. Artest will decrease the lakers team defensive efficiency, unless others step up to handle the dropoff. Ariza is a more efficient defender today in a team defensive setting.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 09:58 AM
Whoa! Not sure what you were planning to bet but, you should edit this post quick! You do realize that Ariza averaged:

8.9 ppg 4.3 rpg 1.8 apg, 1.7 spg , 31.6 3pfg % AND 46 % fg

All Career highs!

Ron will surpass that production in his sleep except for the fg %

We are talking about a career 16 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 2.0 spg per game player in Artest here..

I mean really..Us Laker fans over hype all of our players but now you guys are drinking the kool aid with Trevor.. Get a grip... Ariza is a solid role player on a good team not an all star caliber talent like Artest..

The Lakers are replacing a role player with an all star caliber talent..(to fill the same role)To Mark Cuban's point... whether or not Ron can handle the reduced role and fit in is what remains to be seen. But the talent level discrepancy is a no brainer. Simply put Artest is the better player


he is talking defensively. And I think it was a year ago, when many laker fans were blaming their finals loss on not having Ariza and Bynum, and during the preseason last year, many of them were also blowing up Ariza. So yes, you are again overhyping an incoming player for the Lakers.
Artest is not that great guys. Look past straight statistics, dig in to his real numbers, and watch a series of games, not just the ones where he plays the lakers.
Nobody is drinking the Ariza coolaid. he isn't that good either But he is a good team defender, of which Artest has become average at this point.

Wilson
10-06-2009, 10:31 AM
It could end up being one of those "make it or break it" situations.

Artest could make them way better or it could really explode in their face.

I think Cuban is wrong but I see where he is coming from.

Agreed. It could go either way and I wouldn't be suprised.

gr824
10-06-2009, 12:33 PM
Does your knowledge expand beyond the lakers? 29 other teams, so many forget that. And it was a regular season game I went to. Powell moved to Battier for a good period of time after being abused by Landry on two straight posessions.
The point doesn't change. Artest will decrease the lakers team defensive efficiency, unless others step up to handle the dropoff. Ariza is a more efficient defender today in a team defensive setting.


he is talking defensively. And I think it was a year ago, when many laker fans were blaming their finals loss on not having Ariza and Bynum, and during the preseason last year, many of them were also blowing up Ariza. So yes, you are again overhyping an incoming player for the Lakers.
Artest is not that great guys. Look past straight statistics, dig in to his real numbers, and watch a series of games, not just the ones where he plays the lakers.
Nobody is drinking the Ariza coolaid. he isn't that good either But he is a good team defender, of which Artest has become average at this point.

Yes, it does ...

So your example proves my point, not yours ... The game in question was probably the March game in Houston, a game for which Lamar Odom was made unavailable due to a one-game suspension from the league. Powell uncharacteristically logged heavy minutes at PF that night because Odom was absent from the lineup. When Landry got hot, Phil therefore stuck Powell on Battier not because PJ thought Powell could guard Battier particularly well, but because Josh had proven incapable of stopping Landry. In other words, it was an act of desperation, not design, from Jackson -- had Odom been available, Lamar would have guarded Landry and Battier would have faced Ariza or Walton or Brown or, perhaps, even Kobe; after all, Battier poses no real offensive threat except as a [ spot-up ] 3-point shooter. So the notion that Phil Jackson would ideally want Powell guarding quality offensive NBA wing players was always, and still is, woefully wrongheaded ... :facepalm:

Artest will be fine in the Laker context ... if his head does not explode being in L.A. year-around :rolleyes: ... I never did believe that Artest replaces all that Ariza brought to the table, especially defensively, yet I feel that Ron certainly has the toughness and strength to help the Lakers curtail dynamic, high-scoring 3s like Carmelo, Pierce, and LeBron, something Trevor had a hard time doing with any consistency. Artest is no longer super-quick defensively, but I am not sure he was ever as speedy and 'stifling' as many believe he was, so who cares if he has lost a step ? :eyebrow:

With Artest, the Lakers will be different ... and probably better overall; in any case, they will not be worse as long as Ron Ron stays healthy and out of trouble with a capital "T" ... I can only go so far as to agree with your position by saying that replacing Ariza with only Artest leaves the Lakers possibly little, if any, improved defensively on the perimeter, merely 'different' in key regards [ less 'finesse' and quickness versus more strength and indomitable 'grittiness' ]. However, replacing Ariza on the roster with both Artest and Gelabale [ assuming Mickael still has the skills he had before his recent injury ] makes the Lakers much more deep and formidable than they were last season. For those who have not seen Gelabale play, defensively he has the qualities of a Pietrus or a Sefalosha -- or, yes, even an Ariza :cool: -- a quick, long, wiry guy who tenaciously stays in front of his man and can disrupt the passing lanes effectively. Offensively, he is less impressive, although, as a SuperSonic, he had a killer of a corner 3-point shot -- a great thing for the SF in the triangle to have. Overall, his 3-point shooting is slightly subpar, but then Ariza was borderline lousy from deep before his stint as a Laker, too ... Time will tell ...

Not having Bynum at all and playing with a rusty Ariza certainly hurt the Lakers in June, 2008 ... But playing nearly the entire series 5-on-8 was a much larger factor in the Lakers' ultimate demise against Boston. When NBA referees simply cannot -- or will not -- enforce the rules of the game properly and fairly, the better team does not always win ... :shrug:

bigsams50
10-06-2009, 12:38 PM
Yes, it does ...

So your example proves my point, not yours ... The game in question was probably the March game in Houston, a game for which Lamar Odom was made unavailable due to a one-game suspension from the league. Powell uncharacteristically logged heavy minutes at PF that night because Odom was absent from the lineup. When Landry got hot, Phil therefore stuck Powell on Battier not because PJ thought Powell could guard Battier particularly well, but because Josh had proven incapable of stopping Landry. In other words, it was an act of desperation, not design, from Jackson -- had Odom been available, Lamar would have guarded Landry and Battier would have faced Ariza or Walton or Brown or, perhaps, even Kobe; after all, Battier poses no real offensive threat except as a [ spot-up ] 3-point shooter. So the notion that Phil Jackson would ideally want Powell guarding quality offensive NBA wing players was always, and still is, woefully wrongheaded ... :facepalm:

Artest will be fine in the Laker context ... if his head does not explode being in L.A. year-around :rolleyes: ... I never did believe that Artest replaces all that Ariza brought to the table, especially defensively, yet I feel that Ron certainly has the toughness and strength to help the Lakers curtail dynamic, high-scoring 3s like Carmelo, Pierce, and LeBron, something Trevor had a hard time doing with any consistency. Artest is no longer super-quick defensively, but I am not sure he was ever as speedy and 'stifling' as many believe he was, so who cares if he has lost a step ? :eyebrow:

With Artest, the Lakers will be different ... and probably better overall; in any case, they will not be worse as long as Ron Ron stays healthy and out of trouble with a capital "T" ... I can only go so far as to agree with your position by saying that replacing Ariza with only Artest leaves the Lakers possibly little, if any, improved defensively on the perimeter, merely 'different' in key regards [ less 'finesse' and quickness versus more strength and indomitable 'grittiness' ]. However, replacing Ariza on the roster with both Artest and Gelabale [ assuming Mickael still has the skills he had before his recent injury ] makes the Lakers much more deep and formidable than they were last season. For those who have not seen Gelabale play, defensively he has the qualities of a Pietrus or a Sefalosha -- or, yes, even an Ariza :cool: -- a quick, long, wiry guy who tenaciously stays in front of his man and can disrupt the passing lanes effectively. Offensively, he is less impressive, although, as a SuperSonic, he had a killer of a corner 3-point shot -- a great thing for the SF in the triangle to have. Overall, his 3-point shooting is slightly subpar, but then Ariza was borderline lousy from deep before his stint as a Laker, too ... Time will tell ...

Not having Bynum at all and playing with a rusty Ariza certainly hurt the Lakers in June, 2008 ... But playing nearly the entire series 5-on-8 was a much larger factor in the Lakers' ultimate demise against Boston. When NBA referees simply cannot -- or will not -- enforce the rules of the game properly and fairly, the better team does not always win ... :shrug:

When kings fans use this excuse they get called whiners, and are told to get over it.

gr824
10-06-2009, 12:44 PM
When kings fans use this excuse they get called whiners, and are told to get over it.

:facepalm:

There is no legitimate comparison to be made between the 2002 WCF and the 2008 NBA Finals -- if you really knew NBA history [ as in watching the games might help ] you would know that ... :eyebrow:

fresh prince
10-06-2009, 12:51 PM
he is talking defensively. And I think it was a year ago, when many laker fans were blaming their finals loss on not having Ariza and Bynum, and during the preseason last year, many of them were also blowing up Ariza. So yes, you are again overhyping an incoming player for the Lakers.
Artest is not that great guys. Look past straight statistics, dig in to his real numbers, and watch a series of games, not just the ones where he plays the lakers.
Nobody is drinking the Ariza coolaid. he isn't that good either But he is a good team defender, of which Artest has become average at this point.

Can you please provide these real numbers that are past "straight statistics" please?

I dont think anyone is saying Artest is a "great" player. But he is better than Trevor Ariza..and there's really no one who should dispute that. I've known Trevor for a while now and even he would admit Ron is a better player than him.

As far as defense goes the 2 are polar opposites.. Trevor thrives as an off the ball defender and has trouble against bigger more physical players. Ron Ron is best on the ball against those same bigger physical players.. Lebron, Melo, Peirce, Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Turkulogu types.. This is why the the move is an upgrade for the Lakers...

Also... the biggest point I think the Artest nay sayers are over looking is that this is a new season and ARTEST HAS THE PRIMARY ROLE AS A DEFENSIVE STOPPER ON THIS CLUB.

He isnt needed to score big for this team to succeed. IF he embraces that role which is what all signs indicate..I fully expect his defense to be much improved from last year..when he was still very formidable.. You guys are talking as if its a forgone conclusion that Artest sucks on Defense and he is incapable of improving that aspect of his game!

You act like were talking about Michael Redd or JJ Reddick..Its Ron Artest and defense we are talking about here!

I mean really?

Verbal Christ
10-06-2009, 05:22 PM
You're right.. I should judge his defensive abilities based off of your bitter rant instead. I mean, why would I consider his achievements/awards, when I could just watch a 30 second youtube clip from 1 game last year?

Do you even know who votes for the All-Defensive teams? No, it's not "some groupies\sportswriters." Voting is done by Head Coaches, who are not allowed to vote for players on their own teams, meaning you have no idea what you're talking about. For arguments sake, however, lets say coaches were "groupies" and "love to remember what the player used to be." If that was actually the case, then wouldn't Duncan, who has the most selections ever, have made the 1st team last year.

HAHAHA, oh my bad dog the coaches are the end all's in the argument and rarely show favoritism regardless of affiliation, struck that one on the head didnt ya ace ... how bout this; just look up an actual game, not a highlight reel not a boxscore, and why would my rant be viewed as bitter? maybe you're just too emotional? nevertheless if you want to base your opinion on second teams and black and white numbers vs actual gameplay go right ahead, you're in for a rude awakening trust me, because just like you; LAST YEAR; i was harping on what ron artest brings to a team, after just on year i can base my opinion on everyday play, and the so-called intangibles he brings to a team amount to absurd media comments and walking around in his damn underwear everywhere he goes, so again keep sipping that championship kool-aid before it goes moldy, its gonna be a wild ride for you guys.

edit: duncan gets MUCH LOVE on reputation alone, you sure you wanna go down that road?

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 07:17 PM
this has been really fun. Why don't we let the season decide. Unless other Laker's defensive efficiency go up to replace the loss of Ariza, I am willing to bet their overall team defensive efficiency goes down in the regular season with Artest on the team.
I will leave it at that. I don't care enough about the Lakers to pursue this. I watched Artest over 50 times last year. I know what you are getting.

Chronz
10-06-2009, 07:51 PM
Whoa! Not sure what you were planning to bet but, you should edit this post quick! You do realize that Ariza averaged:

8.9 ppg 4.3 rpg 1.8 apg, 1.7 spg , 31.6 3pfg % AND 46 % fg

All Career highs!

Ron will surpass that production in his sleep except for the fg %

We are talking about a career 16 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 2.0 spg per game player in Artest here..

I mean really..Us Laker fans over hype all of our players but now you guys are drinking the kool aid with Trevor.. Get a grip... Ariza is a solid role player on a good team not an all star caliber talent like Artest..

The Lakers are replacing a role player with an all star caliber talent..(to fill the same role)To Mark Cuban's point... whether or not Ron can handle the reduced role and fit in is what remains to be seen. But the talent level discrepancy is a no brainer. Simply put Artest is the better player

LOL at Artest being an all-star, and simply put your stats dont have any context to them Ariza was arguably Artest's equal, and Ariza is the better player especially for your team. You dont replace a 4th option with a guy who has NEVER shown the ability to play efficiently and is on the decline.

If I wanted to build a team and lose Id pick Artest, if I wanted to build a contending team around winners, Ill pick Ariza. Sure Artest could carry my franchise to better record without any stars around him, but when the stars are around, Ill take the guy who can mesh with them.

Being a first option caliber player does not make you a superior player with a greater impact. They are just different kinds of players.

gr824
10-06-2009, 07:55 PM
this has been really fun. Why don't we let the season decide. Unless other Laker's defensive efficiency go up to replace the loss of Ariza, I am willing to bet their overall team defensive efficiency goes down in the regular season with Artest on the team.
I will leave it at that. I don't care enough about the Lakers to pursue this. I watched Artest over 50 times last year. I know what you are getting.

... and I watched Ariza over 100 times last season, so I know what you are getting ... :rolleyes:

:cool:

:D :D :D

Lakersfan2483
10-06-2009, 07:59 PM
Artest is clearly better than Ariza, the question remains if Artest will mesh with his new teammates, which I am quite sure he will. Phil will make sure he fits in during the season. Artest is one of the better defenders in the league and is an upgrade over Ariza.

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:11 PM
... and I watched Ariza over 100 times last season, so I know what you are getting ... :rolleyes:

:cool:

:D :D :D

I watched him play numerous times. And he still is better defensively. What is it with you and the smartass little faces?
Don't be arrogant. Last year, you guys overhyped Ariza. Now you crap on him, and overhype Artest. Whatever.
Besides, I live in Houston, but I could really care less about the Rockets. I watch them because my friends like them, so I have zero bias when evaluating thier players, of which most fans here do

Chronz
10-06-2009, 08:27 PM
Artest is clearly better than Ariza, the question remains if Artest will mesh with his new teammates, which I am quite sure he will. Phil will make sure he fits in during the season. Artest is one of the better defenders in the league and is an upgrade over Ariza.

Except that nothing you said was true. Well except for the fact that Artest is one of the better defenders in the league, hes just not an upgrade on Ariza.

Lakersfan2483
10-06-2009, 08:42 PM
Except that nothing you said was true. Well except for the fact that Artest is one of the better defenders in the league, hes just not an upgrade on Ariza.

Based on what, prior to last season, Ariza was a career journey men and had not done anything in his career. He played well during the playoffs this year and made a name for himself, but is still not better than Artest and it's not even debatable. Artest is clearly better, he's a better defender, scorer, rebounder, and has a better overall game. Now, it remains to be seen if he will flourish in his new role, but with Phil, he should.

nbafan63
10-06-2009, 08:43 PM
Why do some of you pretend to know more about building a championship team than a NBA GM and a hall of fame coach in Phil Jackson? I'm a Laker fan, but I'm not a die hard fan who claims all the Laker players are the best. Basketball is a game of "matchups." Phil Jackson has wanted Ron artest since last yr but couldn't get a trade done without giving up Lamar. It's pretty clear since last year that the Lakers roster had a gap to fill in terms of guarding a strong SF and a quick PG. Laker's main competitors all have a big strong SF and its a weakness of ours...the Lebron, Carmelo, Paul Peirce. While Ariza is a great defender, he is essentially a Kobe-Lite. We needed someone to muscle with the big SFs. We also needed a quick PG because Fisher is getting his azz worked by the young fast PGs and that's why we brought in Shannon Brown. We have quick PG in Farmar, but he cant stop any quick PGs and his floor leadership is questionable.

To have a championship team, you need variety of players to match up to just about every situation. That's why everyone keeps saying the Lakers are so deep, because we have the talent and the size for just about any team. If we play a big banger Center like Dwight, we have Bynum to answer. Not saying Bynum is better than Dwight, but Bynum has the size to put a body on him. Now if we are playing a smaller PF/C with jumpshot, we got Gasol for him. If we face a hybrid SF/PF such as Rashard Lewis, we got Lamar to match his speed and length (something the celtics didnt have last yr because KG was hurt). If we face a quick SF lengthy SF, we got Ariza or Kobe. If we face a quick SG like Brandon Roy we got Kobe or Ariza. If we got a Strong PG like Deron we got Fisher. See the GAP in or roster?? The strong SF and Quick PG. Ariza can't really handle the big SFs which meant Kobe had to cover or help which isn't Ideal either since Kobe isn't that big himself. Also, Fisher gets burned left and right by quick PGs. So we had to address those issues. We brought Shannon Brown who isnt much of a PG in any means. But he is 6'3 and can run and jump with the best of them. Something Fisher nor Farmar could do. So this offseason we addressed the issue of covering the bigger SFs with Artest.

I agree, Artest has lost a step. But do you see why we made that move? We didn't need a super slim quick guy, we got that in Kobe. We needed a strong body 6'6"-6'9". Ariza will develop into a good player, we all can see that. I think Houston made a good pick up at MLE for Ariza's talent. But for the Lakers, he didn't address anything that Kobe couldn't do. And most important, our biggest competition or "rivals" all have a big powerhouse SF as their #1 scoring option. Lebron, Carmelo, Paul Pierce. It's important for us to find an answer to slow those guys now and not them them score at will.

Will Artest cause a problem for the lakers? I don't know, I hope not. I guess we shall see. But we all know what role he plays and I sure hope he understands his own role. And I think at this point in his career, he understands it too. Why would the guy take minimum $ if it wasn't to win and play with the best. If he wants to be a stud and drop 20, he could have done what Iverson did. Go to a young crappy team and find your points there and maybe for more money as well.

Hope my input helps. Not trying to say I know more than the rest of you, but I have watched a few interviews from last yr where Phil Jackson told the media he needed toughness at certain positions on his roster.

gr824
10-06-2009, 08:44 PM
I watched him play numerous times. And he still is better defensively. What is it with you and the smartass little faces?
Don't be arrogant. Last year, you guys overhyped Ariza. Now you crap on him, and overhype Artest. Whatever.
Besides, I live in Houston, but I could really care less about the Rockets. I watch them because my friends like them, so I have zero bias when evaluating thier players, of which most fans here do

Arrogant ?!?!? :confused:

If anyone has been high and mighty and overly dismissive in this exchange it has been you, so get a grip [ smilies are a stylistic thing -- either accept or ignore their use, but do not ascribed undue importance upon it ].

In regards to 'crapping' on Ariza, nothing could be farther from the truth as far as my statements are concerned -- I actually like him as a player and have since his days at UCLA. Nothing I have written could be construed otherwise by any reasonable person. If I had made the decision about his future, I would have maneuvered to obtain Artest AND retain Ariza as well and solved the LT 'problem' some other way. But Kupchak and Buss decided to go another direction. In any case, the Lakers are still the class of the league and will continue to prove it starting later this month ... :nod:

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 08:47 PM
Arrogant ?!?!? :confused:

If anyone has been high and mighty and overly dismissive in this exchange it has been you, so get a grip [ smilies are a stylistic thing -- either accept or ignore their use, but do not ascribed undue importance upon it ].

As far as 'crapping' on Ariza goes, nothing could be farther from the truth as far as my statements are concerned -- I actually like him as a player and have since his days at UCLA. Nothing I have written could be construed otherwise by any reasonable person. If I had made the decision about his future, I would have maneuvered to obtain Artest AND retain Ariza as well and solved the LT 'problem' some other way. But Kupchak and Buss decided to go another direction. In any case, the Lakers are still the class of the league and will continue to prove it starting later this month ... :nod:


I will agree the Lakers are the team to beat. The other stuff, not so much.
I will state it one last time, and move on from this thread. Artest is a downgrade on the Laker's team defense.
Lata :horse:

Lakersfan2483
10-06-2009, 08:51 PM
It's funny the lengths people go to discredit the lakers, it's alright though, we have an upgrade in Artest and are looking to repeat as champs.

Lakersfan2483
10-06-2009, 08:54 PM
Whoa! Not sure what you were planning to bet but, you should edit this post quick! You do realize that Ariza averaged:

8.9 ppg 4.3 rpg 1.8 apg, 1.7 spg , 31.6 3pfg % AND 46 % fg

All Career highs!

Ron will surpass that production in his sleep except for the fg %

We are talking about a career 16 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg 2.0 spg per game player in Artest here..

I mean really..Us Laker fans over hype all of our players but now you guys are drinking the kool aid with Trevor.. Get a grip... Ariza is a solid role player on a good team not an all star caliber talent like Artest..


The Lakers are replacing a role player with an all star caliber talent..(to fill the same role)To Mark Cuban's point... whether or not Ron can handle the reduced role and fit in is what remains to be seen. But the talent level discrepancy is a no brainer. Simply put Artest is the better player

:clap: I like Ariza a whole lot and was dissapointed to see him go, but as you stated, Artest is clearly the better player.

Toenail Clipper
10-06-2009, 10:01 PM
God damn! 2,500 freakin views!
woohoo! :D

nbafan63
10-06-2009, 10:47 PM
[QUOTE+Besides, I live in Houston, but I could really care less about the Rockets. I watch them because my friends like them, so I have zero bias when evaluating thier players, of which most fans here do[/QUOTE]


If your friend likes to watch gay porn0, do you watch it with him also?

Hawkeye15
10-06-2009, 11:10 PM
[QUOTE+Besides, I live in Houston, but I could really care less about the Rockets. I watch them because my friends like them, so I have zero bias when evaluating thier players, of which most fans here do


If your friend likes to watch gay porn0, do you watch it with him also?[/QUOTE]

hilarious. I get the NBA league pass, Houston is on all the time here. tough concept, huh?

GREATNESS ONE
10-06-2009, 11:17 PM
Only 1 way to find out


Season is less than 30 days away...

broncofangene
10-06-2009, 11:29 PM
I can't wait until Kenyon Martin runs into him face to face. Cuban is a rich scumbag

MTar786
10-07-2009, 09:18 AM
It's funny the lengths people go to discredit the lakers, it's alright though, we have an upgrade in Artest and are looking to repeat as champs.

i know.. its pretty sad. and if/when we win the championship again everyone will be like. ya cuz u had that all star artest and pau and bynum.. but now they trash talk bynum and compare artest to ariza like theyre on the same level.

end of season if lakers win
all the laker haters will talk of artest like he is an all star JUST to discredit kobe

Chronz
10-07-2009, 02:24 PM
Based on what, prior to last season, Ariza was a career journey men and had not done anything in his career. He played well during the playoffs this year and made a name for himself, but is still not better than Artest and it's not even debatable. Artest is clearly better, he's a better defender, scorer, rebounder, and has a better overall game. Now, it remains to be seen if he will flourish in his new role, but with Phil, he should.
Based on his production and impact.

Prior to last season Ariza was exactly the same player he was in Orlando and in NY, slightly improved due to his natural growth as a player, but nothing earth shattering. The fact that you didnt know this is why you shouldnt label players by "jouneymen" instead focus on their games.

And hes better than Artest, look at how many inaccuracies you have in your claims.

Better Rebounder? You do know Ariza has a CAREER Rebound Rate of 11.1, the highest Artest has ever put up was 10.1 when he was able to play alot of PF on a horrible rebounding team. If your trying to show how credible you are at analyzing a players game the least you could do is get something as easy to quantify as Rebounding right.

Once you get all caught up Ill gladly debate the matter, until then stop the lies.

rsweene
10-08-2009, 01:38 AM
for such a 'smart' guy you fail to grasp the point. everyone on here is saying how great ron artest will be on defense, and how much improved the lakers will be without actually researching his LATEST body of work which would be last year with houston. last year with houston he sucked, if you ask kings fan he sucked defensively the year before that too, but since you cant understand that concept i guess i should whip out the wood shape box give you the square and ask you to put it into the circle, maybe that makes more sense to the elite thinkers on here. :facepalm:

Im quoting you smart guy, not what "eeryone else" is saying or what you think other people are saying.

Read your quote and my comment, and dont read into it like there is more than what I said Dont be bitter becauase you got caught sounding like an idiot and hae a nice day:clap:

juggla53
10-08-2009, 01:58 AM
I like cuban but hes dilusional. I like to think of it kind of like when the Patriots added Randy Moss who was considered a cancer like Artest after two years in oakland and then he went to NE with Belicheck and Brady and can anybody tell me of hearing one problem with Randy since he went to the Pats? I think it will be the same situation with Ron-Ron going to a team with Kobe and the Zen Master who's managed such ego's as MJ, Shaq, Kobe, D-Rod etc... with an established leader on the court and one on the sidelines artest will be less apt to pull some of the stuff he has become known for because LA simply wont take it much like NE wouldnt have tolerated Moss doing any of his former antics such as "i play when i wanna play". I think all will work out fine and LA is due for a big year in what should be one of the most exciteing seasons the NBA has had in some time. I think Cuban would be a little bit more worried that his four best players behind Dirk all play either SF or PG.

caseyv415
10-08-2009, 02:41 AM
If I were a Laker fan I would have much rather had Ariza than Artest hands down.. Artest is solid, yet old and skill level is pretty much set.. Whereas Ariza is a STUD and is only getting better.. not to mention he bailed their sorry azz' out of not 1 but 2 key playoff games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoTW9T8Erng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv7JXGslhYQ

Penetra8r
10-08-2009, 03:02 AM
Cuban = empty trophy case

yopotna
10-08-2009, 03:30 AM
Mark Cuban is funny, colorful, and entertaining, but unforunately for Maverick fans that is not what wins championships. Seriously, could anyone ever see any other owner in the NBA or any other major sport hanging out behind the team bench yelling at refs and getting ejected from games? As vocal as Steinbrenner has been over the years can you see him coming on to the field arguing with umps over calls? Jerry Jones? Cuban doesn't know basketball, he's a businessman, and he really shouldn't be questioning the decisions of the owners and general managers of teams that have won multiple titles. Nor should a GM be criticizing players that do not play for him. His actions are childish and pathetic and unfortunately for his players, embarrassing. It is too bad that Dirk willl never win a championship unless he takes a serious pay cut and goes to play for the Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, or joins up with LeBron in Cleveland.

~ShOrTy~
10-08-2009, 03:48 AM
YOU KNOW WAT! TELL Mark Cuban TO SUK MAH FOOT

#1Mavericksfan
10-08-2009, 08:30 AM
Somebody please tell me why this thread is still open?....most of the people posting in this damm thread probably didn't even read what Cuban said they just saw the title of the thread and decided to bash Cuban with the rest of these followers in this thread, Cuban did not "diss" Artest all he said was that he thought Artest might give the Lakers team chemistry problems that's all...this thread just give people who already hate Cuban more reason to bash him and and I wish the Mod would close this thread already damm already or maybe I might just have to check with them.

gr824
10-08-2009, 09:55 AM
Somebody please tell me why this thread is still open?....most of the people posting in this damm thread probably didn't even read what Cuban said they just saw the title of the thread and decided to bash Cuban with the rest of these followers in this thread, Cuban did not "diss" Artest all he said was that he thought Artest might give the Lakers team chemistry problems that's all...this thread just give people who already hate Cuban more reason to bash him and and I wish the Mod would close this thread already damm already or maybe I might just have to check with them.

I hope Mark saw the game last night:

Artest/Lakers 1 - Cuban/Artest Detractors 0 ... :nod:

#1Mavericksfan
10-08-2009, 11:48 AM
I hope Mark saw the game last night:

Artest/Lakers 1 - Cuban/Artest Detractors 0 ... :nod:

1 PRE-SEASON game don't mean nothing.......:facepalm:

Randy West
10-08-2009, 12:04 PM
I can understand where Mark is coming from

On the other hand if he could have signed Artest for the same money the Lakers paid I think he would have

gr824
10-08-2009, 12:09 PM
1 PRE-SEASON game not mean nothing.......:facepalm:

Keep telling yourself that ... Granted, it was only a preseason game ... and granted also it was against Golden State at reduced strength ...

But to say it means "nothing" [ using bad grammar to boot ] is flat out wrong. The results of this one game mean more than any of the mindless 'anti-Artest/Laker' conjecture/drivel being spewed here in light of the fact that last night's contest was actual evidence -- the only such -- of Artest playing in a game in the context of this Laker team ...

More supporting evidence will be forthcoming tomorrow evening; those who want to have their opinions taken seriously should be watching whereas those who merely want to hate on the Lakers ? Well, their 'opinions' are worthless anyway ...

CityofTreez
10-08-2009, 12:11 PM
Go buy the Cubs Cuban, oh nevermind, your a joke and will always be a joke and never win a championship.

Long story short: This is how Mark Cuban feels about the Lakers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysAH1c8nMrA&feature=related

Lakersfan2483
10-08-2009, 01:08 PM
Based on his production and impact.

Prior to last season Ariza was exactly the same player he was in Orlando and in NY, slightly improved due to his natural growth as a player, but nothing earth shattering. The fact that you didnt know this is why you shouldnt label players by "jouneymen" instead focus on their games.

And hes better than Artest, look at how many inaccuracies you have in your claims.

Better Rebounder? You do know Ariza has a CAREER Rebound Rate of 11.1, the highest Artest has ever put up was 10.1 when he was able to play alot of PF on a horrible rebounding team. If your trying to show how credible you are at analyzing a players game the least you could do is get something as easy to quantify as Rebounding right.


Once you get all caught up Ill gladly debate the matter, until then stop the lies.

I have watched Ariza since he came out of UCLA so I know exactly what type of progression he has had as an NBA player and his best year came under Kobe's tutelage. He is transitioning into a very good role player.

Let's look at both players numbers from last season and their career best rebounding avg.:

Ariza's numbers last year: 8ppg, 4.3rpg

Ron's numbers last year: 17ppg, 5.2rpg

Artest's career best rebounding wise: 6.5rpg
Ariza's career best rebounding avg: 4.4rpg

Obviously Ron has been in the league longer thus allowing him to establish himself as one of the better role players in the game as opposed to Ariza's limited time and mins. in the NBA. Early on in his career, Trevor's role was reduced as he wasn't quite ready to contribute as much as he is now. Ron is not the same player he was 5 yrs. ago, but he still is impactful on the game. More is expected of Ron on the teams he plays on because he's the better player when comparing the two guys. Ariza was a very nice complimentary player for the lakers last season and now we will get the opportunity to see if Ron can fit in with LA having to have a diff. type of role. IMO, his role on the lakers will change, but his impact on the game will be greater than that of Ariza.

Zefflin
10-08-2009, 01:57 PM
If I hear Ron is old and on the decline again I'll quit this site. Yes, he has lost a step and will continue to year after year but since when did Artest need his athleticism to dominate players or games? This Ariza and Artest dicussion is getting a little out of hand...for people who are saying there will be a big difference defensivly you are sorely mistaken. Artest will undoubtedly make the Lakers a better team, on both offense and defense. Finally we have the guy who can guard the bigger better 3's in the league and take the pressure off Kobe. Now Kobe can abuse any 2 put in front of him. Believe it or not, Ron Ron will actually be one of the many leaders of this team. (Kobe/Fish/Gasol/Odom/Ron) The loss of Ariza will be felt and I personally will miss him, but Shannon Brown will take over his spot (not the SF spot) and do all the intangibles that Trevor did.

gr824
10-08-2009, 02:04 PM
If I hear Ron is old and on the decline again I'll quit this site. Yes, he has lost a step and will continue to year after year but since when did Artest need his athleticism to dominate players or games? This Ariza and Artest dicussion is getting a little out of hand...for people who are saying there will be a big difference defensivly you are sorely mistaken. Artest will undoubtedly make the Lakers a better team, on both offense and defense. Finally we have the guy who can guard the bigger better 3's in the league and take the pressure off Kobe. Now Kobe can abuse any 2 put in front of him. Believe it or not, Ron Ron will actually be one of the many leaders of this team. (Kobe/Fish/Gasol/Odom/Ron) The loss of Ariza will be felt and I personally will miss him, but Shannon Brown will take over his spot (not the SF spot) and do all the intangibles that Trevor did.

... and if Brown does not [ or cannot ], then perhaps Gelabale and/or Gaffney will, assuming Kupchak and Buss decide it is OK to let loose of another $2 or $3 million in total team salary/LT obligation in order to increase/solidify Laker bench depth ...

Lakersfan2483
10-08-2009, 02:04 PM
If I hear Ron is old and on the decline again I'll quit this site. Yes, he has lost a step and will continue to year after year but since when did Artest need his athleticism to dominate players or games? This Ariza and Artest dicussion is getting a little out of hand...for people who are saying there will be a big difference defensivly you are sorely mistaken. Artest will undoubtedly make the Lakers a better team, on both offense and defense. Finally we have the guy who can guard the bigger better 3's in the league and take the pressure off Kobe. Now Kobe can abuse any 2 put in front of him. Believe it or not, Ron Ron will actually be one of the many leaders of this team. (Kobe/Fish/Gasol/Odom/Ron) The loss of Ariza will be felt and I personally will miss him, but Shannon Brown will take over his spot (not the SF spot) and do all the intangibles that Trevor did.

:clap:

Chronz
10-08-2009, 05:02 PM
I have watched Ariza since he came out of UCLA so I know exactly what type of progression he has had as an NBA player and his best year came under Kobe's tutelage. He is transitioning into a very good role player.
Then how could you possibly miss something so easy to quantify as rebounding? Im sure youve seen him alot, whats not clear is if you know how to properly evaluate his performance. And I like how you tried to make it seem like it was Kobes doing that made him improve when in reality, his role has always been the same, the only thing thats improved about him is his stroke, I guess you could credit Kobe for that, but in the end it was him who put in the time and effort, also Kobe wont even be the Laker Ariza misses the most, from both an analytical and subjective standpoint, Ariza was the better player when Gasol was on the court with him. Kobe helps his game as well, just not as profoundly as Gasol did.


Let's look at both players numbers from last season and their career best rebounding avg.:

Ariza's numbers last year: 8ppg, 4.3rpg

Ron's numbers last year: 17ppg, 5.2rpg

Artest's career best rebounding wise: 6.5rpg
Ariza's career best rebounding avg: 4.4rpg

Look guy, Im going to say this as respectfully as I possibly can, Im not going waste my time debating the matter with you if your going to post grade school stats, use the stats that reflect a players ability, the stats GM's/Coaches use when they inevitably fall back on statistics(With variations accounting for lineup changes, and offensive sets) but the starting point is the same. PER POSSESSION metrics are FAR more accurate than per game averages. Ariza is the better rebounder/defender EASY. Asking Artest to fill that role is going to lead to a drop in performance. He can make up for it in other ways, but I doubt he impacts the game more than Ariza did.

nbafan63
10-08-2009, 05:08 PM
Everyone already knows Artest is > Ariza. Those who doesn't think so don't really know much about basketball and root for crappy teams like the Mavericks. So why bother debating with knuckleheads? In their mind, Jason kid is still a triple double machine and their team just got better because they added the 2005 Shawn Marion. LOL.

Lakersfan2483
10-08-2009, 05:17 PM
Then how could you possibly miss something so easy to quantify as rebounding? Im sure youve seen him alot, whats not clear is if you know how to properly evaluate his performance. And I like how you tried to make it seem like it was Kobes doing that made him improve when in reality, his role has always been the same, the only thing thats improved about him is his stroke, I guess you could credit Kobe for that, but in the end it was him who put in the time and effort, also Kobe wont even be the Laker Ariza misses the most, from both an analytical and subjective standpoint, Ariza was the better player when Gasol was on the court with him. Kobe helps his game as well, just not as profoundly as Gasol did.


Look guy, Im going to say this as respectfully as I possibly can, Im not going waste my time debating the matter with you if your going to post grade school stats, use the stats that reflect a players ability, the stats GM's/Coaches use when they inevitably fall back on statistics(With variations accounting for lineup changes, and offensive sets) but the starting point is the same. PER POSSESSION metrics are FAR more accurate than per game averages. Ariza is the better rebounder/defender EASY. Asking Artest to fill that role is going to lead to a drop in performance. He can make up for it in other ways, but I doubt he impacts the game more than Ariza did.

Your insults are the only thing that is grade school around here, why don't you have a debate with someone rather then leaving smart remarks. You still have yet to disprove why Ariza is the better defender/rebounder. Here is what we both know, Artest's numbers and impact are superior to Ariza's. True or false? We can go back and forth about this but you still will not be able to prove that Trevor is the better player. Based on what, what has Ariza done to prove that he is better then Ron Artest? Nothing and most would agree with that. Heck, Phil Jackson jumped at the chance to land Artest, a player he's been coveting for quite sometime now.

As far as the first remark, I watched every laker game, studied and analyzed the game as well and it was quite clear that Ariza benefited the most from Kobe's presence on the court and that's a fact, guy......Ask any knowledgable fan and you would find out that Trevor works out with Kobe and improved tremendously from the tips, workouts, etc.. he received from Kobe. As far as on the court, it was clear that Ariza's pts. came mostly off of Kobe creating for him and or Kobe being doubled and Trevor being left wide open.

Hawkeye15
10-08-2009, 09:20 PM
This thread needs to be closed. It is counterproductive. It reminds me of the "How awesome is Bynum" thread that went on for 25 pages last preseason.
Evidence has been put forth both ways. Who cares. The season will decide this. Statistically speaking, Artest is not an upgrade over Ariza for the role he will be expected to play. And the thing is, it may not matter at all. The Lakers offensive depth, and thier experience will most likely be too much anyways.
Move on. Season is right around the corner.

DenButsu
10-09-2009, 12:49 AM
Everyone posting in this thread needs to drop all personal remarks. If you have disagreements, keep them on topic and respectful.

-------------

That said, I'm not quite convinced this thread needs to be closed. From the article in the top post:


"If you would have said, what one player—and I'll get killed over this—what one player would you like to see on the Lakers? Ron Artest,” Cuban continued.

Cuban himself acknowledged that he was inviting criticism, and as such if a lot of people are critical of his remarks I don't think it should be too surprising.

That said, enough with the "Cuban is a _____." comments. The topic is whether Artest will help or hurt the Lakers more. Keep it to that, or this thread will get closed after all.

Chronz
10-09-2009, 02:12 AM
Your insults are the only thing that is grade school around here, why don't you have a debate with someone rather then leaving smart remarks.
Dude Im not insulting, I told you I was going to say it as respectfully as I could, and the stats you are using are beyond outdated. If your going to take me telling you facts as insults then how can I even talk to you? Was it the fact that I called them grade school level? Cmon guy its the freaking truth, nobody in the league relies on them anymore, the smart coaches never did.



You still have yet to disprove why Ariza is the better defender/rebounder.

Read my first post, in it I explain to you their rebounding #'s.


Here is what we both know, Artest's numbers and impact are superior to Ariza's. True or false?
False if you know how to interpret stats, but true on some level. I just see them as equals


We can go back and forth about this but you still will not be able to prove that Trevor is the better player.
Dude if you cant even get something as easy as rebounding right, then what you think I can prove or not holds no relevance for me, Im just playing the role of good soldier and responding to your questions.


Based on what, what has Ariza done to prove that he is better then Ron Artest? Nothing
Defend, rebound, score efficiently. Things I covet in a 4th option as you guys so eloquently put it.


and most would agree with that. Heck, Phil Jackson jumped at the chance to land Artest, a player he's been coveting for quite sometime now.

On the flip side Morey refused to offer Artest anything more than a 1 year tender and threw the bank at Ariza as far as evaluating talent, Morey's track record speaks for itself. Besides can you confirm that the Lakers would have rather not have Ariza, I was under the impression that Artest was plan B after the Ariza talk stalled.


As far as the first remark, I watched every laker game, studied and analyzed the game as well and it was quite clear that Ariza benefited the most from Kobe's presence on the court and that's a fact,
LOL ok so lets play this game of your opinion vs mine. Just rinse and repeat everything you just said only replace Kobes name with Pau's and you have my counter argument. And I HIGHLY doubt that you analyze the game.


guy......Ask any knowledgable fan and you would find out that Trevor works out with Kobe and improved tremendously from the tips, workouts, etc.. he received from Kobe.
I did, and they all said your full of it. PLAYFULLY SPEAKING THIS IS NOT AN INSULT, IF YOU FELT INSULTED BY IT, I APOLIGIZE IN ADVANCE, DONT TAKE IT PERSONAL.


As far as on the court, it was clear that Ariza's pts. came mostly off of Kobe creating for him and or Kobe being doubled and Trevor being left wide open.

Yet for some reason when Kobe wasnt on the court but Pau was, he got even more looks, made more of his shots and turned it over less the reason was clear as day when I saw them play, Kobe provides Ariza space on his jumpers, Pau collapses defenses and invites Ariza to find the open spot in the paint allowing him to get higher% looks .... hmmm who should I believe, my own 2 eyes and the #'s that back them up, or some guy who cant even accurately quantify rebounding?????

CMON guy

Lakersfan2483
10-09-2009, 02:51 AM
Dude Im not insulting, I told you I was going to say it as respectfully as I could, and the stats you are using are beyond outdated. If your going to take me telling you facts as insults then how can I even talk to you? Was it the fact that I called them grade school level? Cmon guy its the freaking truth, nobody in the league relies on them anymore, the smart coaches never did.



Read my first post, in it I explain to you their rebounding #'s.


False if you know how to interpret stats, but true on some level. I just see them as equals


Dude if you cant even get something as easy as rebounding right, then what you think I can prove or not holds no relevance for me, Im just playing the role of good soldier and responding to your questions.


Defend, rebound, score efficiently. Things I covet in a 4th option as you guys so eloquently put it.


On the flip side Morey refused to offer Artest anything more than a 1 year tender and threw the bank at Ariza as far as evaluating talent, Morey's track record speaks for itself. Besides can you confirm that the Lakers would have rather not have Ariza, I was under the impression that Artest was plan B after the Ariza talk stalled.


LOL ok so lets play this game of your opinion vs mine. Just rinse and repeat everything you just said only replace Kobes name with Pau's and you have my counter argument. And I HIGHLY doubt that you analyze the game.


I did, and they all said your full of it. PLAYFULLY SPEAKING THIS IS NOT AN INSULT, IF YOU FELT INSULTED BY IT, I APOLIGIZE IN ADVANCE, DONT TAKE IT PERSONAL.


Yet for some reason when Kobe wasnt on the court but Pau was, he got even more looks, made more of his shots and turned it over less the reason was clear as day when I saw them play, Kobe provides Ariza space on his jumpers, Pau collapses defenses and invites Ariza to find the open spot in the paint allowing him to get higher% looks .... hmmm who should I believe, my own 2 eyes and the #'s that back them up, or some guy who cant even accurately quantify rebounding?????

CMON guy

We will have to just agree to disagree on the subject of Artest and Ariza. You feel strongly that you are correct as do I. As far as my analyzing games, trust me, I analyze every aspect of the game. I have been a fan for over 20 yrs., played the game, coached bball, I know the game and how to analyze it. I am a bball junkie.

I watched practically ever single laker game and Ariza benefited most from Kobe's presence. He benefited a great deal from Pau, but Kobe was the main guy in terms of everyone benefiting from the attention he garners night in and night out.

Chronz
10-09-2009, 03:12 AM
Thats all well and good but you really should use modern performance evaluators if your going to use stats. It'll prevent mistakes like saying Artest is a better rebounder.

As for Kobe and Pau, they both played a role, and when both were on the court he was that much better, but really the difference in his play with or without either is not night and day, hes still Ariza and plays his game, just know the #'s dont support your theory about who being more influential, and unless you can tell me what they and my own 2 eyes are missing, I really dont care what you think.

JNA17
10-09-2009, 10:31 AM
when the lakers win the championship, im just gonna bring this thread back up to hear all the hater's new excuses.

Hawkeye15
10-09-2009, 12:19 PM
when the lakers win the championship, im just gonna bring this thread back up to hear all the hater's new excuses.

and if they don't, the countless laker fans who throw their "expertise" down everyones throats are going to say............
exactly. Nothing.
And don't worry, whether or not they win, there will be hundreds of threads for your beloved Lakers.

Toenail Clipper
10-09-2009, 08:31 PM
I live here in LA and here's whats the problem with the LA fans.
When they had Trevor Ariza, they were praising him for his work ethic such as rebounding, defending, and slashing through the defenders. During that Rockets series, they were despising Ron Artest and saying he fouls too much but Kobe ain't getting any calls.WTF happened? When Ariza signed with Rockets and Artest signed with the Lakers, all of the positive comments for Ariza has disappeared; hating on him and claiming "he's a greedy bastard who wants money" and "the Lakers made him a better player." Yes the Lakers are now better with Ron Artest, but come on, stop exaggerating Ron's superiority over Ariza. Just because Ron has accomplished more, he is a better player. It just means he's been in the league longer than Ariza. Also, Ariza is capable of being one of the best SF's in the future.

blazerman
10-09-2009, 10:20 PM
agreed but if they did have a fist fight ive got artest

x2

MackSnackWrap
10-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Cuban needs to shutup sometimes and keep his comments to himself LOL