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ko8e24
09-30-2009, 02:51 AM
2009-2010 NBA Season


Top 5 Defensive Teams (Opponent's PPG)

1. Boston Celtics
2. Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Los Angeles Lakers
4. Charlotte Bobcats
5. San Antonio Spurs



Top 5 Offensive Teams (Team's PPG)

1. Phoenix Suns
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Dallas Mavericks
4. Orlando Magic
5. Denver Nuggets

swissle
09-30-2009, 03:10 AM
dude, if you think the New York Knicks won't be in the top 5 of PPG, then I think your rankings lose all cred. Mike D'antoni...tries to win games by scoring over 100 ppg. No defense.

ko8e24
09-30-2009, 03:13 AM
dude, if you think the New York Knicks won't be in the top 5 of PPG, then I think your rankings lose all cred. Mike D'antoni...tries to win games by scoring over 100 ppg. No defense.

there could be 8 teams avg over 100 ppg. but that is not the question.


question is who will be top 5 in scoring overall. knicks may avg over 100 ppg, but so can 5 teams ahead of them.

DenButsu
09-30-2009, 05:23 AM
dude, if you think the New York Knicks won't be in the top 5 of PPG, then I think your rankings lose all cred. Mike D'antoni...tries to win games by scoring over 100 ppg. No defense.

Some might argue that if you think that being top 5 in ppg equates to being a top 5 offensive team, you may be losing a bit of credibility yourself. :rolleyes:

------------------------------

Offensive efficiency stats are a much better reflection of a team's true offensive caliber since pace is accounted for. Two good examples of this difference from last season would be:

Cleveland - 13th in the league in ppg at 100.3. But would anybody seriously attempt to argue that their offense was mediocre enough to be ranked 13th in the league? Hopefully not. And if you look at their offensive efficiency rating, it's 109.7 which puts them at 4th in the league - which appropriately looks a lot more like what we actually saw from them last season.

Golden State - 2nd in the league in points per game at 108.6, but again, I'd hope not to see anybody trying to make the case that they actually that elite of a team offensively after they managed to put together only a 29 win season. And again, if you look at their offensive efficiency rating, it's 106.6, putting them at 11th in the league which sounds a whole lot more reasonable.

And an even better example of the same situation as GSW is... yep, you guessed it:

New York - 4th in the league in ppg (105.2), but 17th in offensive efficiency (105.3)


The bottom line is that the offenses of teams that play at a very fast pace tend to get overrated. Why? Because the faster pace they play at gives them more possessions per game, which leads to more scoring opportunities and, of course, more points. But if you're wondering what those offensive efficiency ratings actually mean, it's the number of points scored per 100 possessions, which means pace is not taken into consideration any longer. So while the Cavs scored 4.9 fewer points per game than the Knicks on account of playing at a much slower pace, if you look at what each team scored per 100 possessions, Cleveland scored 4.4 points more than the Knicks, meaning their offense was more efficient and effective.


FWIW, Golden State was the fastest team in the league last season, with a pace factor of 101.0. New York was 2nd at 99.0. And Cleveland was 25th at 91.2 - and being so much slower is the main reason for those big reversals when you compare their ppg/off eff with that of GSW and NYK.

-----------------------

So, according to efficiency ratings, the top 10 offenses last season were:


RNK Team Pace Off*Eff
1 Phoenix 98.4 111.2
2 Portland 89.2 110.7
3 L.A. Lakers 96.9 109.8
4 Cleveland 91.2 109.7
5 Dallas 93.9 108.1
6 Boston 92.7 108.1
7 Denver 97 107.5
8 Orlando 94.6 107.2
9 Utah 95.6 107.1
10 Atlanta 92 106.6

And the top 10 defenses were:


RNK Team Pace Def*Eff
1 Orlando 94.6 98.9
2 Boston 92.7 99.4
3 Cleveland 91.2 99.4
4 Houston 92.7 101.4
5 L.A. Lakers 96.9 101.9
6 San Antonio 90.4 102
7 Charlotte 90.8 103.4
8 Denver 97 103.5
9 New Orleans 90 104.1
10 Portland 89.2 104.5

-------------------------

By the way, all the stats I used in this post came from here (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=offeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3doffeff%26seasonT ype%3d2%26league%3dnba) and here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&season=2009&seasontype=4&league=nba).

bigsams50
09-30-2009, 07:27 AM
Muthafrickin Bobcats baby!!!

DenButsu
09-30-2009, 07:59 AM
Muthafrickin Bobcats baby!!!

Offense or defense? Seems to me their trading Okafor for Chandler could hurt them on the defensive end.

bigsams50
09-30-2009, 09:14 AM
Offense or defense? Seems to me their trading Okafor for Chandler could hurt them on the defensive end.

Defense, chandler is a more legit C than okafor though, he has size and athleticism something okafor lacked. chandler is also a much better shot blocker

zambo4president
09-30-2009, 09:42 AM
Defense, chandler is a more legit C than okafor though, he has size and athleticism something okafor lacked. chandler is also a much better shot blocker

Ok that's not true. Also I don't think Tyson Chandler is very athletic at all. Emeka is better by a good deal IMO.

ChiSox219
09-30-2009, 09:47 AM
Some might argue that if you think that being top 5 in ppg equates to being a top 5 offensive team, you may be losing a bit of credibility yourself. :rolleyes:

------------------------------

Offensive efficiency stats are a much better reflection of a team's true offensive caliber since pace is accounted for. Two good examples of this difference from last season would be:

Cleveland - 13th in the league in ppg at 100.3. But would anybody seriously attempt to argue that their offense was mediocre enough to be ranked 13th in the league? Hopefully not. And if you look at their offensive efficiency rating, it's 109.7 which puts them at 4th in the league - which appropriately looks a lot more like what we actually saw from them last season.

Golden State - 2nd in the league in points per game at 108.6, but again, I'd hope not to see anybody trying to make the case that they actually that elite of a team offensively after they managed to put together only a 29 win season. And again, if you look at their offensive efficiency rating, it's 106.6, putting them at 11th in the league which sounds a whole lot more reasonable.

And an even better example of the same situation as GSW is... yep, you guessed it:

New York - 4th in the league in ppg (105.2), but 17th in offensive efficiency (105.3)


The bottom line is that the offenses of teams that play at a very fast pace tend to get overrated. Why? Because the faster pace they play at gives them more possessions per game, which leads to more scoring opportunities and, of course, more points. But if you're wondering what those offensive efficiency ratings actually mean, it's the number of points scored per 100 possessions, which means pace is not taken into consideration any longer. So while the Cavs scored 4.9 fewer points per game than the Knicks on account of playing at a much slower pace, if you look at what each team scored per 100 possessions, Cleveland scored 4.4 points more than the Knicks, meaning their offense was more efficient and effective.


FWIW, Golden State was the fastest team in the league last season, with a pace factor of 101.0. New York was 2nd at 99.0. And Cleveland was 25th at 91.2 - and being so much slower is the main reason for those big reversals when you compare their ppg/off eff with that of GSW and NYK.

-----------------------

So, according to efficiency ratings, the top 10 offenses last season were:


RNK Team Pace Off*Eff
1 Phoenix 98.4 111.2
2 Portland 89.2 110.7
3 L.A. Lakers 96.9 109.8
4 Cleveland 91.2 109.7
5 Dallas 93.9 108.1
6 Boston 92.7 108.1
7 Denver 97 107.5
8 Orlando 94.6 107.2
9 Utah 95.6 107.1
10 Atlanta 92 106.6

And the top 10 defenses were:


RNK Team Pace Def*Eff
1 Orlando 94.6 98.9
2 Boston 92.7 99.4
3 Cleveland 91.2 99.4
4 Houston 92.7 101.4
5 L.A. Lakers 96.9 101.9
6 San Antonio 90.4 102
7 Charlotte 90.8 103.4
8 Denver 97 103.5
9 New Orleans 90 104.1
10 Portland 89.2 104.5

-------------------------

By the way, all the stats I used in this post came from here (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=offeff&seasonType=2&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3doffeff%26seasonT ype%3d2%26league%3dnba) and here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=teamstatoff&season=2009&seasontype=4&league=nba).

Now that is what I call ownage. :clap:

DenButsu
09-30-2009, 12:23 PM
Now that is what I call ownage. :clap:

Thanks, but not trying to "own". I just think a lot of people (including, notoriously, TV commentators who call NBA games who are supposed to be somewhat "expert" at what they do) tend to put too much stock into "easy", simplified stats that aren't as accurate of measurements of things such as, roughly speaking, "best offense", as other slightly more complicated and obscure stats are.

It's the same thing with field goal percentage/effective fg%/true shot percentage. So for example if you look at Billups' fg% straight up, it's .420, which is fairly lowly among NBA point guards. But it really belies how efficiently he actually scores, and when you look at his TS%, which takes the impact of 3-shooting and FTs into consideration, it's .595, which is 5th among pgs, and a much better representation of where his offensive game is really at.

Raph12
09-30-2009, 12:27 PM
2009-2010 NBA Season


Top 5 Defensive Teams (Opponent's PPG)

1. Boston Celtics
2. Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Los Angeles Lakers
4. Charlotte Bobcats
5. San Antonio Spurs



Top 5 Offensive Teams (Team's PPG)

1. Phoenix Suns
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Dallas Mavericks
4. Orlando Magic
5. Denver Nuggets

That is a horrible way to determine the Top 5 Offensive and Defensive teams. A better way would be to use the offensive ratings (an estimate of points produced [players] or scored [teams] per 100 possessions) and defensive ratings (an estimate of points allowed per 100 possessions) to determine which teams are really the best offensive/defensive teams in the league. In which case, my rankings would look like this:

Top 5 Offensive Teams (Team's Offensive Rating)

1. Phoenix Suns
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Dallas Mavericks
4. Portland Trailblazers
5. Boston Celtics
Honorable Mentions: Denver Nuggets, Cleveland Cavaliers and Orlando Magic


Top 5 Defensive Teams (Team's Defensive Rating)

1. Orlando Magic
2. Boston Celtics
3. Cleveland Cavaliers
4. San Antonio Spurs
5. Los Angeles Lakers
Honorable Mentions: Charlotte Bobcats, New Orleans Hornets and Utah Jazz

Mavrix
09-30-2009, 01:59 PM
Dallas will be a top 5 offensive and top 10 defensive team this year

ko8e24
09-30-2009, 02:01 PM
people, is it that hard?????

Just list the 5 teams who will average the most ppg, and the top 5 teams who will give up the least points per game. Not one time did I mention "efficiency". You guys brought that up when I wasn't even referring to it. im not even talkin about efficeincy or per 100 possessions or per 48 minutes.


IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION! STOP COMPLICATING THINGS!

DenButsu
09-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Dallas will be a top 5 offensive and top 10 defensive team this year

Who do you think will fall out of last season's top 10? With most of the teams there, I'm not feeling there should be all that much movement.

sofargone
09-30-2009, 02:21 PM
2009-2010 NBA Season


Top 5 Defensive Teams (Opponent's PPG)

1. Boston Celtics
2. Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Los Angeles Lakers
4. Charlotte Bobcats
5. San Antonio Spurs



Top 5 Offensive Teams (Team's PPG)

1. Phoenix Suns
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Dallas Mavericks
4. Orlando Magic
5. Denver Nuggets
how do ya figure sportsfan?

Chronz
09-30-2009, 02:42 PM
people, is it that hard?????

Just list the 5 teams who will average the most ppg, and the top 5 teams who will give up the least points per game. Not one time did I mention "efficiency". You guys brought that up when I wasn't even referring to it. im not even talkin about efficeincy or per 100 possessions or per 48 minutes.


IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION! STOP COMPLICATING THINGS!

Get on the trolly friend, nobody cares about per game averages, they dont tell anything, if all you want to know is that then you may as well title your next thread what teams are going to play fast and which will play slow, but in a thread where your asking which teams are going to be the BEST offensively then your going to get these kind of ACCURATE responses. Its not complicated bro, unless your really REALLY slow.... like 40 possessions a game slow ...... rimshot


Offense or defense? Seems to me their trading Okafor for Chandler could hurt them on the defensive end.

Really, I have it going just the opposite, Ive never been REALLY impressed with Okafors defense until last year, Ive always been impressed with Chandlers D since his Chicago days.

Chronz
09-30-2009, 02:43 PM
Dallas will be a top 5 offensive and top 10 defensive team this year

Do you remember how bad your defense was when Dirk was your Center?

bigsams50
09-30-2009, 03:05 PM
how do ya figure sportsfan?

They were seventh last year, and have only improved defensively this year.

DerekRE_3
09-30-2009, 03:35 PM
Offense or defense? Seems to me their trading Okafor for Chandler could hurt them on the defensive end.

I think it could be a wash. Okafor has better post D, but can't defend the pick and roll to save his life, which a ton of teams use in the NBA. Chandler may not get as many blocks, but with his length he can alter a lot of shots. It really depends on Chandler's health.

bogdanrom
09-30-2009, 03:51 PM
I think the Wizards will be up there (Offensive Teams of course). We are getting Arenas back, who loves to score and our new coach Flip Saunders is a offensive genius.

DenButsu
09-30-2009, 08:48 PM
people, is it that hard?????

Just list the 5 teams who will average the most ppg, and the top 5 teams who will give up the least points per game. Not one time did I mention "efficiency". You guys brought that up when I wasn't even referring to it. im not even talkin about efficeincy or per 100 possessions or per 48 minutes.


IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION! STOP COMPLICATING THINGS!

I'm not "complicating" anything. I'm just clarifying (albeit in a detailed way):

The "Top 5 Offensive Teams" are not the teams with the most points per game.
And the "Top 5 Defensive Teams" are not the teams that allow the fewest points per game.

That's simple enough, right?


What it really all boils down to is that the whole assumption this thread is based on (tat "best O" = "most ppg" and "best D" = "fewest ppg allowed") is erroneous.

mrblisterdundee
09-30-2009, 10:17 PM
Offensive:

1. Phoenix
2. Portland
3. Los Angeles
4. Cleveland
5. Dallas

Defensive:

1. Boston
2. Orlando
3. Cleveland
4. Los Angeles
5. San Antonio

_KB24_
09-30-2009, 10:32 PM
Offensive
1. Suns
2. Lakers
3.Warriors :D (for you my fellow desi homer ;) )
4. Knicks
5. Nuggets

Defensive
1. Lakers
2. Boston
3. Orlando
4. Cleveland
5. Spurs

ko8e24
09-30-2009, 11:18 PM
I'm not "complicating" anything. I'm just clarifying (albeit in a detailed way):

The "Top 5 Offensive Teams" are not the teams with the most points per game.
And the "Top 5 Defensive Teams" are not the teams that allow the fewest points per game.

That's simple enough, right?


What it really all boils down to is that the whole assumption this thread is based on (tat "best O" = "most ppg" and "best D" = "fewest ppg allowed") is erroneous.




fair enuf.

when i said top 5 offensive and defensively, i meant purely PPG.

so my bad

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 02:09 AM
Who do you think will fall out of last season's top 10? With most of the teams there, I'm not feeling there should be all that much movement.

Who's in the top 10 now? Dallas threw Marion into the starting line up...that's going to change a lot of things.

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 02:10 AM
Do you remember how bad your defense was when Dirk was your Center?

Who said anything about Dirk being center? Dallas is starting with Gooden and having Dampier back him up when more traditional centers are on the floor

DenButsu
10-01-2009, 02:50 AM
fair enuf.

when i said top 5 offensive and defensively, i meant purely PPG.

so my bad

Well, that's fair enough as well.

Mainly, I think it all comes down to the question: "What can any particular stat be used to measure?" There is definitely a usefulness to team ppg, especially when considered along with other stats in the context of a bigger picture. Like the GSW example above, every coaching staff who scouts them will be very aware that they have the capability to put a lot of points on the board (due to their ppg). But if they juxtapose that with their offensive efficiency and pace ratings, then they can also understand a few ways of preventing them from running up the score too high, such as slowing down the pace of the game, and taking advantage of their wasted possessions via good rebounding and capitalizing on turnovers. So again, it's not like ppg isn't good for anything, I just don't think it is the most accurate stat for showing, overall, how effective a team's offense or defense really is.

DenButsu
10-01-2009, 02:53 AM
Incidentally, I think the Nuggets have a good shot at cracking the top 5 offensive teams this season. Melo's production should be higher now that he's over his elbow injury. J.R. will get more minutes which should be more of a scoring punch. Karl has said he wants to get Nene more touches, which can only help since he's so efficient. And I do also think the additions of Afflalo and Lawson, who will take some of the minutes formerly provided by Jones and Carter, should lead to better overall scoring from the rotation guards.

Ansy
10-01-2009, 04:53 AM
people, is it that hard?????

Just list the 5 teams who will average the most ppg, and the top 5 teams who will give up the least points per game. Not one time did I mention "efficiency". You guys brought that up when I wasn't even referring to it. im not even talkin about efficeincy or per 100 possessions or per 48 minutes.


IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION! STOP COMPLICATING THINGS!

If this is the question, it has nothing to do with which teams are "top" at either end of the court.

3RDASYSTEM
10-01-2009, 05:46 AM
TOP 5 OFF
1. Warriors
2. Suns
3. Knicks
4. Lakers
5. Grizz/Nuggs

TOP DEF
1. Boston
2. Cavs
3. Spurs
4. Magic
5. Bobcats

Giants-49ers-Ws
10-01-2009, 06:43 AM
warriors will score most points in league by far

jimbobjarree
10-01-2009, 09:08 AM
Jazz as ever should be up there in offensive efficiency and assists/steals

Chronz
10-01-2009, 12:47 PM
Who said anything about Dirk being center? Dallas is starting with Gooden and having Dampier back him up when more traditional centers are on the floor
LOL dont bother with the semantics, if Dirk and Gooden are on the floor, it doesnt really matter which one they list as the C. But if you insist Ill rephrase the question, do you remember how bad Gooden's defense was the last time he had to play the 5 because he was paired with another PF?

PS I thought the Nuggets wouldve made it last year when they traded for Billups, I didnt expect Melo to regress offensively, now that hes healthy and JR should get more run, they should easily make the top 5.

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 01:54 PM
LOL dont bother with the semantics, if Dirk and Gooden are on the floor, it doesnt really matter which one they list as the C. But if you insist Ill rephrase the question, do you remember how bad Gooden's defense was the last time he had to play the 5 because he was paired with another PF?

PS I thought the Nuggets wouldve made it last year when they traded for Billups, I didnt expect Melo to regress offensively, now that hes healthy and JR should get more run, they should easily make the top 5.Nor Gooden or Nowitzki will get the bulk of the minutes at the center position, Dampier will. He will get around 23 minutes a game. Gooden will play around 12 minutes to start off the game and Nowitzki will play the rest. IF Nowitzki/Gooden fail to show any defense at the 5, that's when Dampier will take over defensive duties. Easy as that.

I'm also looking forward to what Dallas does around the trade deadline to get a good center.

Chronz
10-01-2009, 02:17 PM
Yea, sounds like a recipe for disaster, and not capable of meeting your criteria IMO, because if your going back to the original lineup, you lose the offense thats suppose to make you top5-10 at either.

Its not like we can combine Gooden and Damp, if Damp plays half the time then hes only making half the contribution. Gooden at the 5 is going to contribute alot of negatives defensively theres just no way around it and its certainly not an issue that the really good defensive teams will have to deal with.

blazerman
10-01-2009, 02:43 PM
Dallas will be a top 5 offensive and top 10 defensive team this year

when did Dallas become a top 10 defensive team? they didnt. Who's your defensive stopper Marion, doubt it, he's on the decline and hasnt done anything in yrs, Dirk, please, Kidd, even worse,Gooden, he's a stiff

Offensively they can outscore teams and are top 5 offensively but there defense scares nobody!

bkmikeyy
10-01-2009, 02:50 PM
If you look at efficiency turns out the knicks are not in the 5 worst defensive teams in the nba either, making d'antoni not the worst defensive coach. Now that the knicks got some more size and help in the middle i expect them to be even a little higher.

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 02:56 PM
when did Dallas become a top 10 defensive team? they didnt. Who's your defensive stopper Marion, doubt it, he's on the decline and hasnt done anything in yrs, Dirk, please, Kidd, even worse,Gooden, he's a stiff

Offensively they can outscore teams and are top 5 offensively but there defense scares nobody!

Josh mother ****in Howard

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 03:03 PM
Yea, sounds like a recipe for disaster, and not capable of meeting your criteria IMO, because if your going back to the original lineup, you lose the offense thats suppose to make you top5-10 at either.

Its not like we can combine Gooden and Damp, if Damp plays half the time then hes only making half the contribution. Gooden at the 5 is going to contribute alot of negatives defensively theres just no way around it and its certainly not an issue that the really good defensive teams will have to deal with.

Why are you making bogus predictions? With Howard, another very good defender, back healthy and sliding to SG...Marion, who is one of the best and most versatile defenders in the league taking SF duties, Kidd still being a good defensive minded PG, and still having Dampier to take the bulk of the minutes at the 5, you can't discredit the Mavericks as potentially being a top 10 defensive team. Just ask the Suns and Heat, whose defenses both fell off tremendously after they traded the Matrix mid-season.

eugene
10-01-2009, 03:03 PM
Defensive TOP5 looks more or less alright, maybe Lakers should be out of this TOP. Offensive ... Hmmm... well.. through out Orlando out of there...

Chronz
10-01-2009, 03:29 PM
Why are you making bogus predictions? With Howard, another very good defender, back healthy and sliding to SG...Marion, who is one of the best and most versatile defenders in the league taking SF duties, Kidd still being a good defensive minded PG, and still having Dampier to take the bulk of the minutes at the 5, you can't discredit the Mavericks as potentially being a top 10 defensive team. Just ask the Suns and Heat, whose defenses both fell off tremendously after they traded the Matrix mid-season.

OK Well lets look into this

What do you project as your top 5 most frequently used lineups? But yea Marion could be an x-factor

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 03:41 PM
OK Well lets look into this

What do you project as your top 5 most frequently used lineups? But yea Marion could be an x-factor

Kidd
Howard
Marion
Nowitzki
Dampier

mikantsass
10-01-2009, 03:42 PM
2009-2010 NBA Season


Top 5 Defensive Teams (Opponent's PPG)

1. Boston Celtics
2. Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Los Angeles Lakers
4. Charlotte Bobcats
5. San Antonio Spurs



Top 5 Offensive Teams (Team's PPG)

1. Phoenix Suns
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Dallas Mavericks
4. Orlando Magic
5. Denver Nuggets



I like your defenses, Portland prob will be up there too. Offensively I'd have maybe the knicks and warriors in there. I dont think that LAL will have the #2 offense.

Chronz
10-01-2009, 04:04 PM
Kidd
Howard
Marion
Nowitzki
Dampier

Thats 1 of 5

BoratSagdiyev
10-01-2009, 04:13 PM
Ok that's not true. Also I don't think Tyson Chandler is very athletic at all. Emeka is better by a good deal IMO.

I respectfully disagree.

Mavrix
10-01-2009, 06:42 PM
Thats 1 of 5

1 of 5 that can play defense?

You're saying a healthy Josh Howard isn't a good defender? Kidd and Dampier arn't good defenders?

Chronz
10-01-2009, 06:49 PM
1 of 5 that can play defense?

You're saying a healthy Josh Howard isn't a good defender? Kidd and Dampier arn't good defenders?

I meant 1 of 5 lineups, your team isnt going to spend 100% of their possessions with that lineup.

So just to simplify, what are the top 5 lineups you expect the Mavs to put out?

DenButsu
10-01-2009, 08:34 PM
If you look at efficiency turns out the knicks are not in the 5 worst defensive teams in the nba either, making d'antoni not the worst defensive coach. Now that the knicks got some more size and help in the middle i expect them to be even a little higher.

That's a very good point that I bet a lot of people didn't pick up on. (So, bump).

If you look at efficiency, it turns out that while the Knicks offense does remain stronger than their defense, they are actually a much more balanced team than their "best in offense but worst in defense" reputation gives them credit for.

kArSoN RyDaH
10-01-2009, 08:48 PM
2009-2010 NBA Season


Top 5 Defensive Teams (Opponent's PPG)

1. Boston Celtics
2. Cleveland Cavaliers
3. Los Angeles Lakers
4. Charlotte Bobcats
5. San Antonio Spurs



Top 5 Offensive Teams (Team's PPG)

1. Phoenix Suns
2. Los Angeles Lakers
3. Dallas Mavericks
4. Orlando Magic
5. Denver Nuggets

defense.
celtics lakers cavs spurs cats
offense
lakers suns dallas magic nuggets

Mavrix
10-02-2009, 03:14 AM
I meant 1 of 5 lineups, your team isnt going to spend 100% of their possessions with that lineup.

So just to simplify, what are the top 5 lineups you expect the Mavs to put out?

Most defensive line up

Kidd
Howard
Marion
Nowitzki
Dampier

Pick and roll with Terry

Kidd
Terry
Marion
Nowitzki
Dampier

Most talented to finish off games

Kidd
Terry
Howard
Marion
Nowitzki

Gooden at center when teams don't play a traditional center

Kidd
Howard
Marion
Nowitzki
Gooden

All offense

Terry
Howard
Marion
Nowitzki
Gooden