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Jack of Blades
09-25-2009, 10:32 PM
Is the 3rd second basemen in MLB history to join the 30-30 club.

Congrats Kins :clap:

ritz
09-25-2009, 11:26 PM
:clap:

VRP723
09-25-2009, 11:48 PM
Is he the best 2nd baseman in baseball? I think so...

Wrightw/Reyes19
09-25-2009, 11:59 PM
sweet.

sofargone
09-26-2009, 12:03 AM
who are the others?

Jack of Blades
09-26-2009, 12:07 AM
who are the others?

Alfonso Soriano (also when he was with Texas) and Brandon Phillips.

sofargone
09-26-2009, 12:09 AM
brandon phillips ...ugh what happened! good for kinsler though

theLgndKllr35
09-26-2009, 12:47 AM
Is he the best 2nd baseman in baseball? I think so...

Chase Utley?

Congrats to Kinsler though, truly a great accomplishment. :clap:

Bustersballs
09-26-2009, 12:48 AM
nice job kins

CraigtheSoxFan
09-26-2009, 01:23 AM
congrats to kins!!! 2nd best power hitting 2b man and 3rd beat hitting avg 2b in the mlb

Matt-the-great
09-26-2009, 10:46 AM
all 3 of them were pretty recent too

CQSox305
09-26-2009, 11:08 AM
Probably the 2nd best after Utley.

JimFinn6969
09-26-2009, 11:25 AM
there is no doubt ian kinsler is good
but cmon robinson cano is defnitely the best second baseman in the al

1. Robinson Cano
2. Kinsler
3. Dustin

MrSexy
09-26-2009, 11:28 AM
there is no doubt ian kinsler is good
but cmon robinson cano is defnitely the best second baseman in the al

1. Robinson Cano
2. Kinsler
3. Dustin

Cano? You're delusional.

As for best in baseball, I'd have to go with

1. Utley
2. Kinsler

But you could make an argument for switching them.

deuces
09-26-2009, 11:31 AM
what about aaron hill?:shrug:

yankswin27
09-26-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't agree with Kinsler being the best 2B in the game. Chase Utley ring a bell? It's hard to rank the best 2B in the majors, just because there's so many good ones. But Utley stands alone at the top as the best in the game, no questions asked.

yankswin27
09-26-2009, 11:35 AM
Cano? You're delusional.

As for best in baseball, I'd have to go with

1. Utley
2. Kinsler

But you could make an argument for switching them.

Show Cano some love, man. He's hitting .321 on the year with almost 25 bombs, not to mention the most AB's on the team. Great defense up the middle as well.

Manatoo
09-26-2009, 11:47 AM
Show Cano some love, man. He's hitting .321 on the year with almost 25 bombs, not to mention the most AB's on the team. Great defense up the middle as well.

.... your not serious are you?

Tragedy
09-26-2009, 12:00 PM
Utley is the best 2B..Don't know why others are thinking otherwise. Cano, Kinsler, and Pedroia all round out the top 4, and the order can be flipped around any way you want it.

MrSexy
09-26-2009, 12:14 PM
Show Cano some love, man. He's hitting .321 on the year with almost 25 bombs, not to mention the most AB's on the team. Great defense up the middle as well.

Oh no doubt he's good, but he's no where NEAR the best.

Nycguy84
09-26-2009, 12:23 PM
Utley & Aaron Hill can definitely make an argument as best 2B though Cano isn't a little behind on power numbers he is wielding a .325 average and a better field than Utley or Kinsler. And I wouldn't be surprised if Cano is a 30 HR hitter next year. 23 so far in '09, 30-33 is no stretch.

Dark Donnie
09-26-2009, 12:28 PM
Cano? You're delusional.

As for best in baseball, I'd have to go with

1. Utley
2. Kinsler

But you could make an argument for switching them.
Their really is no arguement.


Utley & Aaron Hill can definitely make an argument as best 2B though Cano isn't a little behind on power numbers he is wielding a .325 average and a better field than Utley or Kinsler. And I wouldn't be surprised if Cano is a 30 HR hitter next year. 23 so far in '09, 30-33 is no stretch.

Utley:
WAR 7.9
UZR 10.6

Cano:
WAR 3.9
UZR -6.8

Kinzler:

WAR 4.0
UZR 7.9

sexicano31
09-26-2009, 12:43 PM
Cano? You're delusional.

As for best in baseball, I'd have to go with

1. Utley
2. Kinsler

But you could make an argument for switching them.

I kinda agree. I mean chase does everything right. Kinsler is a ****ing slugger with wheels. Its all a matter of homerism so utley is the best 2b EVAR

skierdude44
09-26-2009, 01:25 PM
Their really is no arguement.



Utley:
WAR 7.9
UZR 10.6

Cano:
WAR 3.9
UZR -6.8

Kinzler:

WAR 4.0
UZR 7.9

As far as WAR goes, Cano and Kinsler are equal. Utley is clearly the best 2bman, but the picture gets muddled after that. Also, I'm really not sure why UZR doesn't like Cano. He has made a lot of nice plays this year and looks better on defense than he ever has before. A couple of years ago he was an 11.1 UZR value and he played arguably worse defense than he has this year despite a -6.8 mark. UZR isn't very reliable because of sampling issues, but I will admit it's the best defensive metric we have. And another point on Cano, he's had atleast 34 doubles every year in the bigs, has topped 40 three times, and is sitting at 47 doubles right now. He could very well reach 50 doubles this season with 23-25 HRs. Kinsler may have more HR than him, but he has better power overall.

CraigtheSoxFan
09-26-2009, 02:04 PM
1.kinsler
2.utley
3 pedroia
4 cano
5 hill

Zaunnie
09-26-2009, 02:09 PM
what about aaron hill?:shrug:

No one in the US cares about any Canadian teams unless it's there's a possibility of acquiring their best player(s).

MGB
09-26-2009, 02:21 PM
No one in the US cares about any Canadian teams unless it's there's a possibility of acquiring their best player(s).

:cheers:

JimFinn6969
09-26-2009, 02:24 PM
robbie cano has 200 hits 25 homeruns 50 double season aboutt

and he is hitting like 321

soo.... how am I delusional to say that??

he is the best hitter in the Al for second baseman for the last 2-3 years overall

aaron hill is having a better year this year but overall cano is better

and dustin is no where near cano

Omar Little
09-26-2009, 02:32 PM
brandon phillips ...ugh what happened! good for kinsler though

How come everyone gets so down on Brandon? He's been injured last year and this year, yet he's still managed to go 21 HRs/23 SBs in only 140 games last year and 20 HRs/25 SBs (...and counting) this year.

Id take that kind of production from a 2B-man any day.

Imperial
09-26-2009, 02:35 PM
Show Cano some love, man. He's hitting .321 on the year with almost 25 bombs, not to mention the most AB's on the team. Great defense up the middle as well.

You really can't judge any Yankees player by how many "bombs" they have. They hit in the most friendly home run hitter's park in baseball. Cano hits for average and a little bit of power. He's not patient, he can't steal (actually has more CS) and he plays suspect defense.

There's no way he belongs in the same category as Utley or Kinsler.

j-mart
09-26-2009, 02:57 PM
Not only is Hill having a monster season offensively (34 HR and 103 RBI) but check out his fielding stats (7 errors and .991 fielding percentage). Pedrioa is the only one even remotely caparable defensively this year.

Zaunnie
09-26-2009, 03:01 PM
Not only is Hill having a monster season offensively (34 HR and 103 RBI) but check out his fielding stats (7 errors and .991 fielding percentage). Pedrioa is the only one even remotely caparable defensively this year.

watch all the saber heads come in and call you an idiot for using irrelevant stats like fielding percentage, and rbi as an argument :rolleyes:

Dark Donnie
09-26-2009, 03:16 PM
watch all the saber heads come in and call you an idiot for using irrelevant stats like fielding percentage, and rbi as an argument :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: I don't think anyone is discrediting Hill.

Where do you see Hill in terms of 2B in the league?

Zaunnie
09-26-2009, 03:19 PM
:rolleyes: I don't think anyone is discrediting Hill.

Where do you see Hill in terms of 2B in the league?

Oh don't get me wrong I think Hill is one of the best 2B in the league, but I'm just making an observation about how some saberheads in this forum get their panties in a bunch whenever stats like rbi and fielding percentage are used. :)

bcransom
09-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Is he the best 2nd baseman in baseball? I think so...
Ever heard of Chase Utley?

j-mart
09-26-2009, 03:53 PM
Ever heard of Chase Utley?

Who?

skierdude44
09-26-2009, 03:56 PM
You really can't judge any Yankees player by how many "bombs" they have. They hit in the most friendly home run hitter's park in baseball. Cano hits for average and a little bit of power. He's not patient, he can't steal (actually has more CS) and he plays suspect defense.

There's no way he belongs in the same category as Utley or Kinsler.

Cano has 12 home runs hit at home and 11 on the road. It seems like the park plays little effect on him. In fact, his home/road splits are pretty equal across the board. Kinsler also plays his home games in a hitter's park, and his home/road splits are far more drastic. His home line is .285/.363/.577 with 19 home runs. On the road the line is .211/.273/.383 with 11 home runs. His home OPS is nearly 300 points higher than his road OPS. Cano is also equally good against right handed and left handed pitching. Against righties he's OPSing .859 and against lefties he's at .879. Kinsler struggles with right handed pitching with a .724 OPS and kills lefties with a 1.012 OPS. Power-wise, Cano is just as good, if not better. He has 3 seasons of 40+ doubles, whereas Kinsler only has one season with 30+ doubles. Kinsler averages 20.5 HR per year (a number that is inflated by him besting his previous career high this season by 10 HR) while Cano averages 17 HR. Finally the SLG numbers for the career are Cano, .478, and Kinsler .476.

Cano's not a patient hitter, but he doesn't strike out much either. He averages 66.6 K's per season. Kinsler averages 72.3 K's. Cano doesn't walk much only 25.2 BB's which I would agree would be a concern if he didn't have such a high batting average. Kinsler is better at drawing walks, but isn't out of this world averaging 50.25 walks per season.

Speed is in Kinsler's favor, there's no denying that. As for defense, everyone's quick to say that Kinsler is a superior defender to Cano. UZR would lead you to believe that this year, but this is the first season that Kinsler has had a positive UZR value. For his career he is -22.9, while Cano is -28.6 (however that number is inflated by a -22.6 mark his rookie season). Most people are willing to dismiss Jeter's improved UZR as a sampling error, but those same people claim Kinsler's a gold glover. You can't have it both ways. UZR is an interesting way to try to approximate defense, but it's a rough approximation at best. One full season is not enough of a sample, and a career number has too many variables (age, improvvement, etc).

So all that we can truly conclude is that Kinsler is faster than Cano. I'd take Cano's bat over Kinsler's, and in the field they're pretty much a wash. Even with his shaky UZR this year, Cano has been equal to Kinsler in WAR (3.9 to 4.0, I don't put too much stock in that one-tenth difference) largely because he is a superior hitter.

JabberJaw
09-26-2009, 04:07 PM
Orlando Hudson is no slouch either. He hits for a good avg. and is probably the best fielding 2nd baseman in baseball

j-mart
09-26-2009, 04:25 PM
^^ Plus Hudson also said that JP Ricciardi dressed like a pimp when he was with the Jays. Classic.

Manatoo
09-26-2009, 04:28 PM
Not only is Hill having a monster season offensively (34 HR and 103 RBI) but check out his fielding stats (7 errors and .991 fielding percentage). Pedrioa is the only one even remotely caparable defensively this year.

Please, im all for being a huge homer but at least use semi decent arguments.

MDfootball36
09-26-2009, 04:59 PM
love em

Young2Kinsler
09-26-2009, 05:20 PM
Good accomplishment, but Kinslers swing needs work. If I were to rank 2B in baseball...

1. Utley
2. Kinsler
3. Roberts
4. Cano
5. Hill

josh81589
09-26-2009, 05:29 PM
Kinsler is a great 2b and probably my favorite player, and I think he is one of the top 2b in the league. However, his avg could be higher. Just a down year that I would like to credit to his injury. Before he had his injury at the beginning of the season he was on a tare, if he didn't have an injury I could see him at .315, 37 homeruns, 113 RBI and 34 SB

Jack of Blades
09-26-2009, 05:39 PM
Good accomplishment, but Kinslers swing needs work. If I were to rank 2B in baseball...

1. Utley
2. Kinsler
3. Roberts
4. Cano
5. Hill

Yeah, Roberts is incredibly underrated.

2009mvp
09-26-2009, 06:11 PM
As fun as it is to discount him because of the gritty, scrappy, gamer comments media guys like to make, I'd take Pedroia and his glove over anyone not named Chase. After that it's a toss up between Kinsler and the three AL East 2B, though Hill`s probably not likely to repeat the power numbers again.

TheRuckus
09-26-2009, 06:16 PM
It's still Utley, head and shoulders above everyone else.

Kinsler, Cano, Pedroia, Hill, Roberts are all on the second tier. In a couple of years, the first three might surpass Chase as he hits his decline phase, but Utley is a generational talent. We're talking top 10 at the position all-time.

2009mvp
09-26-2009, 06:28 PM
Utley is underrated at this point. Don't think people realize just how good he is.