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View Full Version : Is the 'Role Player' dying in the NBA?



shep33
09-25-2009, 09:14 PM
One of the problems i have with the nba is that the role players seem to be missing these days. Teams in the 90s had 3 point specialists, defensive stoppers, and enforcers. For example:

Enforcers:
Larry Johnson
Charles Oakley
Otis Thrope
Rick Mahorn
Rodman

3 point specialists:
Mark Price (actually very good all around)
Sam Perkins
Paxon
Kerr
Dale Ellis
etc..

Just seems like role players are dying out, and guys getting drafted are mostly just guys that could score. I mean c'mon Oakley wasn't a lights out scorer, but his kind seems to have died out in the NBA, and i think its a shame. Too many babies these days. Honestly just watch this link and tell me you don't miss these types of games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpNwtmudALQ

shep33
09-25-2009, 09:17 PM
Just wanted to add that i think that role players back in the day added to the rivalries which the nba clearly doesn't have anymore. I mean when the knicks use to play chicago, you hated kerr just b/c he'd hit anything wide open. You hated Rodman for being Rodman, and i'm sure the bulls hated starks for being a 'tough' guard, or Oakley for giving em cheap shots.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-25-2009, 09:22 PM
Are player who aren't stars called role players?

ink
09-25-2009, 09:29 PM
There are tons of role players. What are Jason Kapono, Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen (just retired), Kurt Thomas, Anthony Parker, Reggie Evans, Shane Battier, etc, etc, etc?

KG2TB
09-25-2009, 09:31 PM
Role players aren't dying out and are more valuable than ever. The problem is a lot of players don't want to play to their strengths and try to be a star when they're best served taking a back seat and playing into a role. The NBA is more of a business than ever and a lot of players are more interested in stats than playing a team game. With that said, the league still has plenty of role players but the thing is it also has a lot of players who think they're better than they are.

superkegger
09-25-2009, 09:52 PM
yeah, derek fisher, trevor ariza, luke walton, sasha vujacic and shannon brown aren't role players at all. I mean, they didn't provide anything for the Lakers championship team at all. None of them had a role, nor did they play. Jesus christ. this is the dumbest ****ing thread I've seen not created by jordansbulls in awhile. No wonder I stopped posting in the nba forum. bunch of ****wads in here.

TheKing23
09-25-2009, 09:58 PM
I think role players are more prominent than ever.
You've got players like Chris Andersen, Marcin Gortat and Anderson Varejao all earning new contracts this off-season as high energy, hustling big men.

You've got defensive specialists like Shane Battier, Bruce Bowen (just retired), Raja Bell, Dahntay Jones, James Posey etc. Specialist shooters like Boobie Gibson, Jason Kapono, Sasha Vujacic and rebounding big men off the bench like Joel Pryzbilla and Jeff Foster.

So overall, no I don't think the role player is dying out in the NBA and I don't think it will ever die out as there will always be a need for them.

what54!?
09-25-2009, 09:59 PM
no the heat are filled with role players

J$mo0th_3o5
09-25-2009, 10:14 PM
no the heat are filled with role players

Ain't that the truth.

knickfan4life
09-25-2009, 10:48 PM
One of the problems i have with the nba is that the role players seem to be missing these days. Teams in the 90s had 3 point specialists, defensive stoppers, and enforcers. For example:

Enforcers:
Larry Johnson
Charles Oakley
Otis Thrope
Rick Mahorn
Rodman

3 point specialists:
Mark Price (actually very good all around)
Sam Perkins
Paxon
Kerr
Dale Ellis
etc..

Just seems like role players are dying out, and guys getting drafted are mostly just guys that could score. I mean c'mon Oakley wasn't a lights out scorer, but his kind seems to have died out in the NBA, and i think its a shame. Too many babies these days. Honestly just watch this link and tell me you don't miss these types of games: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpNwtmudALQ

First off, WOW at 2:05 that move by MJ was ridiculous, now to your point... yeah we will never see rivalries like that EVER again because of the way the games are referee'd these days... the way oakley played in that ONe game, he would have been ejected twice in the current days and would have been given a 3 game suspension EASILY... i blame it allllll on David Stern i hate that motha fuka... he single handidly turned the GAME of basketball into a fukin business full of pansies that ***** n moan when they are tipped... pippen was hammered SEVERAL times in that game... we will never see those types of games.... ahhhh the beauty of REAL basketball

Toenail Clipper
09-25-2009, 10:51 PM
Tayshaun Prince is a role player :D

Byronicle
09-25-2009, 11:31 PM
enforcers:

dwight howard
ron artest

sofargone
09-26-2009, 12:06 AM
yeah, derek fisher, trevor ariza, luke walton, sasha vujacic and shannon brown aren't role players at all. I mean, they didn't provide anything for the Lakers championship team at all. None of them had a role, nor did they play. Jesus christ. this is the dumbest ****ing thread I've seen not created by jordansbulls in awhile. No wonder I stopped posting in the nba forum. bunch of ****wads in here.

i caught that secret writing at the bottom there, but well said

PennyMy#1
09-26-2009, 07:42 AM
Battier is glue guy, not a role player. I think "enforcers" are dying, but not role players at themselves.

NANDOKNICK
09-26-2009, 08:59 AM
Still lots of rivalries in the NBA but its based on skill...we have some great
point guards, and great teams...its all about skill now


Just wanted to add that i think that role players back in the day added to the rivalries which the nba clearly doesn't have anymore. I mean when the knicks use to play chicago, you hated kerr just b/c he'd hit anything wide open. You hated Rodman for being Rodman, and i'm sure the bulls hated starks for being a 'tough' guard, or Oakley for giving em cheap shots.

MackSnackWrap
09-26-2009, 09:52 AM
No the role player is not dying in the nBA

Wilson
09-26-2009, 10:05 AM
The games aren't as physical as they used to be, which is a shame, but there are still a lot of role players (a lot of good ones as well). The Lakers just won the championship, and they couldn't have done it without contributions from Trevor Ariza, Derek Fisher, Luke Walton, and Lamar Odom.

Elsewhere, guys like Shane Battier, Louis Scola, Glen Davis, Udonis Haslem, Brad Miller and many others continue to do a good job as role players.

HiphopRelated
09-26-2009, 10:48 AM
Battier is glue guy, not a role player. I think "enforcers" are dying, but not role players at themselves.
:rolleyes: and the difference is?

knickfan4life
09-26-2009, 12:00 PM
:rolleyes: and the difference is?

role players include 3 point specialists and defensive stoppers as well... the enforcers are the charles oakley, dennis rodman type players, like chris anderson, u dont see 2 many guys like chris anderson these days... i can name you 30 from 1995, one from every team, name me 5 today

Wrightw/Reyes19
09-26-2009, 12:00 PM
i dont think they're fading away. almost every team has certain role players

Wrightw/Reyes19
09-26-2009, 12:04 PM
Chuckie Hayes would be my example of a true role player. he is a lock down defender for big men + he can afford to pick up big fouls.

HiphopRelated
09-26-2009, 12:34 PM
role players include 3 point specialists and defensive stoppers as well... the enforcers are the charles oakley, dennis rodman type players, like chris anderson, u dont see 2 many guys like chris anderson these days... i can name you 30 from 1995, one from every team, name me 5 today
I highlighted the "Battier's a glue guy not roleplayer". I want that explanation

Guys like Haslem, Magloire, Ben Wallace, etc. would have been the enforcers. It's pointless being an "enforcer" like in the late 80s/90s sense if you'll get thrown out and suspended from games. That part of the game has changed

Hellcrooner
09-26-2009, 02:10 PM
role players are dying becauee god teams are dodgin the rules somehow and stockpiling allstars or almost all stars in just 6 or 7 rosters in the league.

In the old times like before 1995 or so it was.

Jordan and Pipp and a lot of role players.

Isiaiha and Dumars and a lot of role players.

Mchale, Bird, Parish and Role players.

Magic,Wrhty , old Kareem and role players.

etc etc.

Now you got Kobe, Arts, pAu, Odom, Bynum or Pierce, Allen, Kg, SHeed, Rondo or Carter, Howard, Lewis and Nelson or Parker, Manu, Jeefferson, duncan and etc etc etc.

abe_froman
09-26-2009, 02:20 PM
Now you got Kobe, Arts, pAu, Odom, Bynum or Pierce, Allen, Kg, SHeed, Rondo or Carter, Howard, Lewis and Nelson or Parker, Manu, Jeefferson, duncan and etc etc etc.

except alot of the people you mentioned are role players.

here's what happened,we know and value certain players more than we did as kids.see he just mentioned artest,he's a role player(maybe the best in the business) but you value the guy more now so you see him as something more than you would have have before joining nba forums.

Hellcrooner
09-26-2009, 03:58 PM
ron artest used to be a 20 ppg guy and he would be on a leaser team,

you are confusing role players with players that get into a team with better players than them and need to step down to work as role player even if they are stars.

shep33
09-26-2009, 07:06 PM
First off, WOW at 2:05 that move by MJ was ridiculous, now to your point... yeah we will never see rivalries like that EVER again because of the way the games are referee'd these days... the way oakley played in that ONe game, he would have been ejected twice in the current days and would have been given a 3 game suspension EASILY... i blame it allllll on David Stern i hate that motha fuka... he single handidly turned the GAME of basketball into a fukin business full of pansies that ***** n moan when they are tipped... pippen was hammered SEVERAL times in that game... we will never see those types of games.... ahhhh the beauty of REAL basketball

haha man i'm with ya. This was ball at its finest. NBA is too soft these days, i think guys like oak and mason added to rivalries... honestly i can't name one nba rivalry today. No New York vs Miami/Indy/or Chi Town. No Detroit vs Chi town, etc. But i gotta say that the true role player in the NBA is still dying out. Back in the 90s guys were often drafted for certain things, i.e. shooting 3s, rebounding, blocking shots, etc. Now when you look at the draft, teams seem to be taking kids that average 35 ppg out of high school, or high scoring college players. Role players are guys i consider who play a large part in the game, not just say luke walton who comes in and does a bit here and there. Kendrick Perkins is a role player in my opinion, he changes the game with his size and defense, and honestly he intimidates guards who come into the paint. Kapono is a true shooter, but we don't have as many of these guys like we use to in the nba. I just think NBA teams often go after the best scorers out there in the draft and then try to make them into role players afterwards now.

IversonIsKrazy
09-26-2009, 07:15 PM
IMO, role players are more valuable and appreciated than ever. Just look at Bruce BOwen, it was everywhere on the site when he announced retirement.

lorenz00
09-26-2009, 07:19 PM
there are still a lot of role players!

shep33
09-26-2009, 07:29 PM
There are tons of role players. What are Jason Kapono, Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen (just retired), Kurt Thomas, Anthony Parker, Reggie Evans, Shane Battier, etc, etc, etc?

Does Evans still play? Kurt thomas, Parker, shane battier, and bruce bowen are all good role players. I totally agree with you. However, look at the guys you named here, besides Kapono, these guys are all old guys. Bowen (retired), Kurt Thomas (63 yrs old), Bell (33), parker (34). These guys all played in the 90s. But younger role players today don't seem to be as prevalent. Defensive stoppers today almost always seem to be older guys in their 30s. Posey, Raja, Bowen, Battier, eric snow, Dikembe, Stacey Augmon, were all drafted for defensive purposes. Now look at this years draft and go on wikipedia and look at drafts in the early 90s. Guys drafted today are the top scorers from college and highschool in most cases, or guys that seem to have the most offensive potential.

loki34
09-26-2009, 07:30 PM
the entire suns bench are role players

shep33
09-26-2009, 07:36 PM
IMO, role players are more valuable and appreciated than ever. Just look at Bruce BOwen, it was everywhere on the site when he announced retirement.

Ya but look how old Bruce Bowen is, this guy is part of the older generation that i'm talking about. I remember when he played in the late 90s and he was a journeyman (played in France, the CBA, etc. since 93). I remember when he was guarding Houston and Sprewell in 1999, hah and he was like 30 back then. He was part of the generation i'm talking about, but today it seems that his type of player is dying out. But i completely agree with you that Bowen is the pinnacle of what a role player should be.

TheKing23
09-26-2009, 08:12 PM
ron artest used to be a 20 ppg guy and he would be on a leaser team,

you are confusing role players with players that get into a team with better players than them and need to step down to work as role player even if they are stars.

No, you are confusing role players and star players. You said it yourself they "step down to work as a role player", it doesn't matter if Artest used to be a star, that won't be his position on the team.

Yes he could still be the number 1 option on offense for a few teams in the NBA but he now fits into the role as defensive stopper who can score. He will fill Ariza's spot and play the same role as him and Ariza was a prototypical role player.

Wilson
09-26-2009, 09:28 PM
Look at the last few NBA Champions, they all have had great role players:

2009: Lakers - Trevor Ariza, Derek Fisher, Lamar Odom, Luke Walton, Shannon Brown

2008: Celtics - Rajon Rondo (maybe a star now, but was a role player back then), James Posey, Leon Powe, Eddie House, Kendrick Perkins

2007: Spurs - Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Brent Barry, Michael Finley

2006: Heat - Udonis Haslem, Jason Williams, Eddie House, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, James Posey

2005: Spurs - Bruce Bowen, Robert Horry, Brent Barry

2004: Pistons - Really the entire team...

The list goes on...

Every team in the league has star players, but the contending teams are the ones with good role players to compliment those stars. Role players are just as important today as they've ever been.

Illuminati999
09-26-2009, 10:31 PM
No, you are confusing role players and star players. You said it yourself they "step down to work as a role player", it doesn't matter if Artest used to be a star, that won't be his position on the team.

Yes he could still be the number 1 option on offense for a few teams in the NBA but he now fits into the role as defensive stopper who can score. He will fill Ariza's spot and play the same role as him and Ariza was a prototypical role player.

I can only think of the Knicks where Artest would be number 1 options. Then again, if JJ Barea was on the team, he would probably be the number 1 option too...

smith&wesson
09-26-2009, 10:45 PM
Battier is glue guy, not a role player. I think "enforcers" are dying, but not role players at themselves.

enforcers, ron artest, jermain o'niel, reggie evans, perkins, ben wallace, Kmart, haslem, zaza pachula, josh smith, nene,

shep33
09-27-2009, 01:03 AM
enforcers, ron artest, jermain o'niel, reggie evans, perkins, ben wallace, Kmart, haslem, zaza pachula, josh smith, nene,

Man the enforcers are weak these days. Guys i agree with are Artest and Perkins but thats it. Haha the Knicks had more enforcers on their team than the nba does today. Oakley, Mason, haha even Starks was the most hardcore guard. Dale Davis, Larry Johnson, Atoine Carr, Mahorn... dang the whole pistons team in the late 80s. I wish the rules hadn't of changed so much... basketball has become weak now, no such thing as a hard foul anymore. Enforcers use to control the game in a lot of ways, they'd make you scared of coming into the lane, while adding rivlaries to the nba.

JayW_1023
09-27-2009, 04:32 AM
Every young player wants to be 'the man' instead of just being happy to be in the NBA. Because alot of players don't get that chance (in reference to the movie Hoop Dreams).

smith&wesson
09-27-2009, 05:02 AM
Man the enforcers are weak these days. Guys i agree with are Artest and Perkins but thats it. Haha the Knicks had more enforcers on their team than the nba does today. Oakley, Mason, haha even Starks was the most hardcore guard. Dale Davis, Larry Johnson, Atoine Carr, Mahorn... dang the whole pistons team in the late 80s. I wish the rules hadn't of changed so much... basketball has become weak now, no such thing as a hard foul anymore. Enforcers use to control the game in a lot of ways, they'd make you scared of coming into the lane, while adding rivlaries to the nba.

i supose you havent seen the classic fight betwen alonzo and LJ it was a sissy fight like two girls trying to scratch eachothers face or someshit,,,

any ways i dont agree man, some of these dudes i mentioned can hang with guys you just mentioned up there. in terms of tuffness, you cant discredit jermain oniel, he's in everyones face, reggie evens is just grimey, josh smith plays very intimidating, nene is a goone, kmarts no chump, shaq is shaq, ron artest is just gritty, i seen perkins get in JO's face a couples times last season. ben wallace was a searious beast and even though he is washed up he is still a montser in they physical aspect. . the old days had rules where players can get away with being more physical, but rules have changed and so players have adapted,,

JayW_1023
09-27-2009, 05:13 AM
Most players are all talk...JO is all talk. How can you call this guy tough when he has developed allergy for the post the past five years? As much as i like the Nuggets K-Mart is another chest beating bully who disappears when it truly matters.

shep33
09-27-2009, 04:20 PM
i supose you havent seen the classic fight betwen alonzo and LJ it was a sissy fight like two girls trying to scratch eachothers face or someshit,,,

any ways i dont agree man, some of these dudes i mentioned can hang with guys you just mentioned up there. in terms of tuffness, you cant discredit jermain oniel, he's in everyones face, reggie evens is just grimey, josh smith plays very intimidating, nene is a goone, kmarts no chump, shaq is shaq, ron artest is just gritty, i seen perkins get in JO's face a couples times last season. ben wallace was a searious beast and even though he is washed up he is still a montser in they physical aspect. . the old days had rules where players can get away with being more physical, but rules have changed and so players have adapted,,

Haha yeah that fight with LJ and Zo was terrible, I gotta agree with you on that... looked like a soccer fight. You make some good points but i still gotta disagree with JO, the guy gets posterized more than Megan Fox these days (yes i just said that). Ben Wallace is done though (great Career), maybe with detroit 5 years ago i could agree. Josh Smith doesn't seem too intimadating, hah the guy seems like he's so shy or something... great player though. But i mean Lebron just destroyed him in the playoffs and dunked it whenever he wanted (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdp9Gsk6Zmo). I agree with Perk, Kmart just kinda talks trash doesn't really imposes himself on the court. But i think the enforcer type has just died down cause of the rule changes. Maybe they still exist but they just can't do what they once were able to do. I mean everything is a flagrant these days which is a shame. But yah the game has just changed