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DenButsu
09-25-2009, 01:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2010&week=-1


RANK TEAM REC.
1 (1) Lakers 65-17
2 (4) Magic 59-23
3 (3) Celtics 62-20
4 (2) Cavaliers 66-16
5 (8) Spurs 54-28
6 (6) Nuggets 54-28
7 (10) Mavericks 50-32
8 (5) Trail Blazers 54-28
9 (12) Hawks 47-35
10 (16) Suns 46-36
11 (9) Hornets 49-33
12 (13) Jazz 48-34
13 (11) Bulls 41-41
14 (20) Raptors 33-49
15 (27) Wizards 19-63
16 (14) Heat 43-39
17 (17) 76ers 41-41
18 (15) Pistons 39-43
19 (19) Bobcats 35-47
20 (29) Clippers 19-63
21 (28) Thunder 23-59
22 (7) Rockets 53-29
23 (22) Warriors 29-53

ManRam
09-25-2009, 01:25 PM
They look good overall. Obviously everyone is going to have some minor beefs...but I think it's a fair list.

SpeeMN
09-25-2009, 01:27 PM
My Beef is with the Clippers and the Thunder. I don't think they should be that high if the twolves (I'm guessing) are last.

29$JerZ
09-25-2009, 01:30 PM
I don't how why the Thunder and Clippers are as high as they are. L.A loses because of health concerns and their coach, I can't seem them all stay healthy for a whole season.Thunder only improved in 1 area and that's SG, still have no big mean to compete.

As for the lower teams why is NJ over NY? We had a better record then them while they had Vince Carter. So now that he is gone they wil have a better record than us?

cabernetluver
09-25-2009, 01:31 PM
The only thing at this point that could keep the Lakers from being #1 at this time would be a traffic accident, they are in fact the defending champions and are actually improved with the addition of Artest. I have strong reservations with the next three.

I just don't see the Magic being a better team than the Cav's. The Celtics have a huge age issue. Everyone says "if we stay healty...." but the reality is that age of the big three with the Celtics is going to make staying healthy problematic.

Ironman5219
09-25-2009, 01:39 PM
Hawks and suns are ahead of the Jazz? Spurs are at 5????? Sounds like a few homer moves in this one.

Odominator
09-25-2009, 01:39 PM
Age is nothing but a number.... but not in the Celtic's case.

MackSnackWrap
09-25-2009, 01:39 PM
RANK TEAM REC.
1 (1) Lakers 65-17
2 (2) Cavaliers 66-16
3 (4) Magic 59-23
4(3) Celtics 62-20
5 (8) Spurs 54-28
6 (6) Nuggets 54-28
7 (10) Mavericks 50-32
8 (5) Trail Blazers 54-28
9 (13) Jazz 48-34
10 (16) Suns 46-36
11 (9) Hornets 49-33
12 (20) Raptors 33-49
13 (11) Bulls 41-41
14(12) Hawks 47-35

jazzman86
09-25-2009, 01:45 PM
RANK TEAM REC.
1 (1) Lakers 65-17
2 (2) Cavaliers 66-16
3 (4) Magic 59-23
4(3) Celtics 62-20
5 (8) Spurs 54-28
6 (6) Nuggets 54-28
7 (10) Mavericks 50-32
8 (5) Trail Blazers 54-28
9 (13) Jazz 48-34
10 (16) Suns 46-36
11 (9) Hornets 49-33
12 (20) Raptors 33-49
13 (11) Bulls 41-41
14(12) Hawks 47-35

I like this one a lot better. There is no way the Hawks and Suns are better than the Jazz. I would probably move the Hornets to 10th ahead of the Suns.

Macedonian
09-25-2009, 01:50 PM
Bulls ahead of the Raptors????????
Unbelievable!!!:confused::mad:

fredv
09-25-2009, 01:54 PM
lol @ Rockets! Im glad we start so low, it will be funny when we make the playoffs. Rockets where without Yao and took Lakers to 7 games, you really think we are going to lose to ****** teams and be that low? Nuh-uh.

jc4life
09-25-2009, 02:03 PM
I don't how why the Thunder and Clippers are as high as they are. L.A loses because of health concerns and their coach, I can't seem them all stay healthy for a whole season.Thunder only improved in 1 area and that's SG, still have no big mean to compete.

As for the lower teams why is NJ over NY? We had a better record then them while they had Vince Carter. So now that he is gone they wil have a better record than us?

nah bro the nets had a better record than the knicks

asandhu23
09-25-2009, 02:08 PM
I fuaking hate ESPN. they always have a negative attitude towards the Warriors. Look where they put us. stupid idiots. we had a bad season because our main player raped his foot on a moped and 3/4 of the season was gone by the time he returned anywhere close to his real self. plus we also had too many game winning shots against us ( like the LeBron one where we had our best defender Turiaf on him and all ) :mad::mad::mad:

ManRam
09-25-2009, 02:13 PM
Hawks and suns are ahead of the Jazz? Spurs are at 5????? Sounds like a few homer moves in this one.

What's wrong with the Spurs at 5???

Did the Jazz get better this off-season?? I don't think so. The Hawks certainly did. Also, if Amare was healthy all year last year they get the 8th seed, not Utah. If he's healthy, I think they are a better team.

D Roses Bulls
09-25-2009, 02:58 PM
finally the magic get some respect from espn. i dont know how anyone would rate the cavs ahead of the magic when all they did was acquire aging veterans and no one besides shaq who is decent. also the bulls should be ahead of the raptors until the raptors can prove they can even make the playoffs

MackSnackWrap
09-25-2009, 04:40 PM
finally the magic get some respect from espn. i dont know how anyone would rate the cavs ahead of the magic when all they did was acquire aging veterans and no one besides shaq who is decent. also the bulls should be ahead of the raptors until the raptors can prove they can even make the playoffs

Homer :facepalm: explain why Chicagos better than Toronto. And what you mean magic are not better than Cleveland

ManRam
09-25-2009, 04:59 PM
Homer :facepalm: explain why Chicagos better than Toronto. And what you mean magic are not better than Cleveland

Because Toronto was terrible last year, Chicago wasn't. Sure, they lost Gordon, but the core of their team is very young, and will get a lot better this year. Gordon might have hurt Chicago more than he helped them last year. He's a one dimensional player, a chucker who plays no defense. Deng will be healthy, who is almost just as good as an addition as Hedo will be for Toronto. They have great front court depth too. Who plays defense for Toronto?? Chicago will be a great defensive team.

I do think Toronto is slightly better, but I think it is almost a coin toss.

Shady66
09-25-2009, 05:00 PM
Nice to see the Suns finally gettin some love, so many of yall think they gonna miss the playoffs

ChiSox219
09-25-2009, 05:02 PM
Blazers should be no lower than 5.

MackSnackWrap
09-25-2009, 05:23 PM
Because Toronto was terrible last year, Chicago wasn't. Sure, they lost Gordon, but the core of their team is very young, and will get a lot better this year. Gordon might have hurt Chicago more than he helped them last year. He's a one dimensional player, a chucker who plays no defense. Deng will be healthy, who is almost just as good as an addition as Hedo will be for Toronto. They have great front court depth too. Who plays defense for Toronto?? Chicago will be a great defensive team.

I do think Toronto is slightly better, but I think it is almost a coin toss.

Wow r u fuking kidding me. First of all one of our biggest problems was our depth(our bench was garbage). We adressed that by adding Marco Belleneli who has a ton of potential and barely got a chance to prove himself in Golden state cuz of Don Nelson, we added Antoine Wright who is a great defensive minded player. We added Jarret Jack who will arguably be the best back up pg in the NBA this season, and this adresses our problem of a decent back up pg since last year we used pgs like Roko Ukic and Will Solomon. We drafted Demar Derozan who im not excpecting to do whole lot this year but he will play decent ball this year and has alot of potential to be big. We had another problem last season last year which was our toughness we adressed that buy getting Regge evans a tough gritty player along with amir Johnson and oh yeah our Franchise player Chris Bosh put on 15+ pounds over the offseason so that need has been adressed. We also have a young Andrea Bargnani who showed signs of a breakout year near the end of last year, he will definitely have a solid season. And we got Turkoglu who is probably over paid but was a huge part of whatever success orlando had last year along with Dwight and Lewis ofcourse. So our team hasnt got slightly better its gotten alot better.... Explain to me how losing your best player in the playoffs (Ben Gordon)will make you a better team. Face it Raps will be better than Chicago.

ChiSox219
09-25-2009, 05:33 PM
Wow r u fuking kidding me. First of all one of our biggest problems was our depth(our bench was garbage). We adressed that by adding Marco Belleneli who has a ton of potential and barely got a chance to prove himself in Golden state cuz of Don Nelson, we added Antoine Wright who is a great defensive minded player. We added Jarret Jack who will arguably be the best back up pg in the NBA this season, and this adresses our problem of a decent back up pg since last year we used pgs like Roko Ukic and Will Solomon. We drafted Demar Derozan who im not excpecting to do whole lot this year but he will play decent ball this year and has alot of potential to be big. We had another problem last season last year which was our toughness we adressed that buy getting Regge evans a tough gritty player along with amir Johnson and oh yeah our Franchise player Chris Bosh put on 15+ pounds over the offseason so that need has been adressed. We also have a young Andrea Bargnani who showed signs of a breakout year near the end of last year, he will definitely have a solid season. And we got Turkoglu who is probably over paid but was a huge part of whatever success orlando had last year along with Dwight and Lewis ofcourse. So our team hasnt got slightly better its gotten alot better.... Explain to me how losing your best player in the playoffs (Ben Gordon)will make you a better team. Face it Raps will be better than Chicago.

It doesnt really matter, neither team is getting past the second round.

yungballah15
09-25-2009, 05:37 PM
Because Toronto was terrible last year, Chicago wasn't. Sure, they lost Gordon, but the core of their team is very young, and will get a lot better this year. Gordon might have hurt Chicago more than he helped them last year. He's a one dimensional player, a chucker who plays no defense. Deng will be healthy, who is almost just as good as an addition as Hedo will be for Toronto. They have great front court depth too. Who plays defense for Toronto?? Chicago will be a great defensive team.

I do think Toronto is slightly better, but I think it is almost a coin toss.

loll, hol hol hol up,chill out, that raptors are only slightly better than chicago, hol hol up, chill out, did you just say raptors where only slightly better than chicago, and its a coin toss yikess :speechless: raptors did a lot this year, they added depth, they added turkoglu, who isnt just gon get his points, hes gonna make the players around him better, and the players like bargnani, jose are gonna benfit off his attacking, which they didnt have last year, right now theres no question, that raptors are better then chicago, its a coin toss, with raptors hawks, and somewhat wizards.

Jamiecballer
09-25-2009, 05:40 PM
Wow r u fuking kidding me. First of all one of our biggest problems was our depth(our bench was garbage). We adressed that by adding Marco Belleneli who has a ton of potential and barely got a chance to prove himself in Golden state cuz of Don Nelson, we added Antoine Wright who is a great defensive minded player. We added Jarret Jack who will arguably be the best back up pg in the NBA this season, and this adresses our problem of a decent back up pg since last year we used pgs like Roko Ukic and Will Solomon. We drafted Demar Derozan who im not excpecting to do whole lot this year but he will play decent ball this year and has alot of potential to be big. We had another problem last season last year which was our toughness we adressed that buy getting Regge evans a tough gritty player along with amir Johnson and oh yeah our Franchise player Chris Bosh put on 15+ pounds over the offseason so that need has been adressed. We also have a young Andrea Bargnani who showed signs of a breakout year near the end of last year, he will definitely have a solid season. And we got Turkoglu who is probably over paid but was a huge part of whatever success orlando had last year along with Dwight and Lewis ofcourse. So our team hasnt got slightly better its gotten alot better.... Explain to me how losing your best player in the playoffs (Ben Gordon)will make you a better team. Face it Raps will be better than Chicago.

i'm a big raps fan too bro but it sounds to me like you have had a little too much of the BC kool-aid. it was an impressive overhaul but there are plenty of questions about whether or not the pieces fit. this team will be very soft and very poor defensively. i for one am cautiously optimistic but think that there will be a lot of 40 point quarters by the opposing teams.

theimortalone
09-25-2009, 05:51 PM
Sweet the Suns are ranked 10th! Can't complain with that! :D

CityofTreez
09-25-2009, 05:54 PM
Am I supposed to take these serious if the clippers are ranked at #19. Nope, answered my own question.

Why did they have to mention Casspi over Tyreke Evans in the power ranking consensus! Oh yeah, it's BSPN being BSPN!

ManRam
09-25-2009, 05:55 PM
Wow r u fuking kidding me. First of all one of our biggest problems was our depth(our bench was garbage). We adressed that by adding Marco Belleneli who has a ton of potential and barely got a chance to prove himself in Golden state cuz of Don Nelson, we added Antoine Wright who is a great defensive minded player. We added Jarret Jack who will arguably be the best back up pg in the NBA this season, and this adresses our problem of a decent back up pg since last year we used pgs like Roko Ukic and Will Solomon. We drafted Demar Derozan who im not excpecting to do whole lot this year but he will play decent ball this year and has alot of potential to be big. We had another problem last season last year which was our toughness we adressed that buy getting Regge evans a tough gritty player along with amir Johnson and oh yeah our Franchise player Chris Bosh put on 15+ pounds over the offseason so that need has been adressed. We also have a young Andrea Bargnani who showed signs of a breakout year near the end of last year, he will definitely have a solid season. And we got Turkoglu who is probably over paid but was a huge part of whatever success orlando had last year along with Dwight and Lewis ofcourse. So our team hasnt got slightly better its gotten alot better.... Explain to me how losing your best player in the playoffs (Ben Gordon)will make you a better team. Face it Raps will be better than Chicago.

Defensive much?? Yikes.

BG wasn't their best player. BG is not a winner. All he is a scorer. He doesn't pass, play defense, he isn't a leader. He's a volume shooter. Losing him wont hurt much. I'd rather have Salmons honestly. Getting Deng back will help. Noah, Thomas and Rose are going to be a lot better. The fact of the matter is Chicago was a shot or two away from being in the second round. Toronto was the third worst team in the East, only one win better than NYK! I love Hedo. He is a great player...but is he enough to turn Toronto from cellar dweller to a potential second round team? I don't think so. This league is based on defense. Chicago's defense will be much better than Toronto's now. Hedo isn't going to help that out.

I'm not crazy. There are a lot of people who think the same way I do...

Toronto got a lot better, but until I see how Hedo fits in (already have a great passing PG, Hedo's role changes), and the other new guys (I like DeRozan and Marco)...I'm not ready to believe that a team that won one more game than New York last year is better than a team that almost was in the second round. Chicago is going to be a great defensive team, with a fair amount of depth. I think losing BG wont stop them much at all.

ManRam
09-25-2009, 05:57 PM
Am I supposed to take these serious if the clippers are ranked at #19. Nope, answered my own question.

Why did they have to mention Casspi over Tyreke Evans in the power ranking consensus! Oh yeah, it's BSPN being BSPN!

LAC is a team to watch. Blake Griffin will be a stud. They got rid of one of the biggest cancers ever in Randolph. They have a ton of young talent. Great depth.

Davis/Telfair
Gordon/Butler/Collins
Thornton/Davis
Griffin/Smith
Kaman/Camby

That's a solid team IMO.

Cubs Win
09-25-2009, 05:58 PM
Wow, some of these Raps fans need to chill out. The Raptors got better and the Bulls should be better as well. Yes, the Bulls did lose Gordon who ruined offensive rhythm and played poor defense. He cost us at least as many and probably more points than he put on the scoreboard. Deng missed a lot of time last season. He's finally healthy and has been working real hard this offseason. And probably the hardest worker this offseason was our best player last year, Derrick Rose. He should not only be much better on offense and defense, but will get some of the calls that refs don't give to rookies quite as easily. So as you can see there was no need for your overreactions to someone on the internet disagreeing with you, a Raptors homer, about the Raptors. :facepalm:

bigsams50
09-25-2009, 06:05 PM
Cats at 19, i can **** wit it for now, i still think we're gonna get a playoff berth

bogdanrom
09-25-2009, 06:11 PM
I'm fine with the rankings and where the Wizards are. I'd rather be an underdog than to be overrated and fail during the season.

ManRam
09-25-2009, 06:23 PM
Chicago was outscored per 100 possessions when BG was on the court. When he was off the court, they outscored their opponents per 100 possessions...from 82games.com.

They were actually better with him off the court than on it.

aman_13
09-25-2009, 06:36 PM
How about we let the season do the talking.

Litchris12
09-25-2009, 06:54 PM
I don't how why the Thunder and Clippers are as high as they are. L.A loses because of health concerns and their coach, I can't seem them all stay healthy for a whole season.Thunder only improved in 1 area and that's SG, still have no big mean to compete.

As for the lower teams why is NJ over NY? We had a better record then them while they had Vince Carter. So now that he is gone they wil have a better record than us?

I know thats what im about to say

Draco
09-25-2009, 06:57 PM
Nets fans will live with every single bad "Nyets" joke if their prospective Russian owner has anywhere near the effect Roman Abramovich had at Chelsea. Don't forget, though, that the NBA does have a salary cap.

:laugh:

Antbanks21
09-25-2009, 06:59 PM
grizzlies are too low

Cubs Win
09-25-2009, 07:05 PM
Chicago was outscored per 100 possessions when BG was on the court. When he was off the court, they outscored their opponents per 100 possessions...from 82games.com.

They were actually better with him off the court than on it.

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

Draco
09-25-2009, 07:12 PM
Homer :facepalm: explain why Chicagos better than Toronto. And what you mean magic are not better than Cleveland

Why should he? This is ESPNs power ranking not one from a Bulls fan. If anyone's being a homer it's the Raptor fans butt hurt about ESPNs ranking.

jasondrobinson
09-25-2009, 07:28 PM
this site makes me embarrassed to be a raps fan....

arkanian215
09-25-2009, 07:41 PM
im surprised... grizzlies are still down there. they just got iverson and zbo. that adds some experience to their very young squad. it shouldve moved them at least ahead of the nets.

i totally disagree with where the wizards are. they're top 5 imo. last year they played without haywood and arenas for most of the season. now they'll get them back healthy with miller and foye as key additions and the loss of no one important.

MackSnackWrap
09-25-2009, 07:57 PM
Why should he? This is ESPNs power ranking not one from a Bulls fan. If anyone's being a homer it's the Raptor fans butt hurt about ESPNs ranking.

Because he said the Bulls are better than the Raps does that anwer your question.

SA5195
09-25-2009, 08:10 PM
Like really??? Raps having the same record as last season? like really?

Draco
09-25-2009, 08:16 PM
Because he said the Bulls are better than the Raps does that anwer your question.

And you were already given an answer to a question that didn't need to be asked.


also the bulls should be ahead of the raptors until the raptors can prove they can even make the playoffs

DenButsu
09-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Toronto and Chicago will determine themselves which team is better when they get out on the court and play their 82 games, including the ones where they go H2H.

Until then, nobody really knows. But personally, I really don't fault any preseason power rankings, as it's impossible to determine the impact of offseason moves until the teams actually play the games (for example neither Camby dumped off the Nuggets or Brand to Philly had the results that most "experts" were predicting).

Not that it's a totally moot point for discussion, but man, people are getting really worked up about this. Toronto had a great offseason, but they still have a lot to prove. Chicago lost Gordon, but Rose will only keep getting better and they've proven their ability to compete with great teams in the playoffs. Seems to me like Stein is basically just going with what we've already learned more than what we haven't learned yet.

soundjunkies2
09-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Because he said the Bulls are better than the Raps does that anwer your question.

That makes him a homer? Just sounds like a fan to me.

Draco
09-25-2009, 08:19 PM
Like really??? Raps having the same record as last season? like really?

Looks to me like it's just a reference to last season's record.. although they probably should have reset that column to zero.

Toenail Clipper
09-25-2009, 08:23 PM
Although they are capable of beating the Lakers, Bobcats are a joke.

Shady66
09-25-2009, 08:29 PM
Although they are capable of beating the Lakers, Bobcats are a joke.

Says the Clippers fan

Toenail Clipper
09-25-2009, 08:32 PM
Says the Clippers fan

Says the Suns fan

Shady66
09-25-2009, 08:33 PM
Yup :D

Vinny642
09-25-2009, 08:39 PM
I dont agree with the Suns being ahead of us, but whatever.

celticsfan18ty
09-25-2009, 08:51 PM
i agree with the list for now but when the season starts the celtics should be number 1 on the power rankings the celtics can still win with old players so yall stop talkin bout how old the celtics are most of the young teams cant win championships anyway so yo need veterans to win a championship

Toenail Clipper
09-25-2009, 09:00 PM
i agree with the list for now but when the season starts the celtics should be number 1 on the power rankings the celtics can still win with old players so yall stop talkin bout how old the celtics are most of the young teams cant win championships anyway so yo need veterans to win a championship

Really?
You are soooooo SMART!

DenButsu
09-25-2009, 09:18 PM
Looks to me like it's just a reference to last season's record.. although they probably should have reset that column to zero.

Yeah, those are last season's records.

ko8e24
09-25-2009, 09:48 PM
Bulls ahead of the Raptors????????
Unbelievable!!!:confused::mad:

which one of the 2 teams made the playoffs in 09? :confused:

jimbobjarree
09-25-2009, 11:57 PM
Jazz should be 9th at least, the rest is arguable, cant wait to start proving everyone wrong though soon as the season starts with everyone finally healthy, gunna be sweet

sofargone
09-26-2009, 12:08 AM
which one of the 2 teams made the playoffs in 09? :confused:

which one of those two teams completely revamped their roster and which one lost a star player?:confused:

lakersfan211
09-26-2009, 12:50 AM
suns ranked 10th , someone needs a drug test , that is not a top 10 team anymore at best they are an 8 seed , i say that because the 8 seed in the west is wide open this year .

bigsams50
09-26-2009, 05:47 AM
Although they are capable of beating the Lakers, Bobcats are a joke.

The only joke is the clippers franchise, yall only have 6 winning seasons in yalls entire existance? Thats a joke

DenButsu
09-26-2009, 06:25 AM
Enough of everybody just insulting everyone else's team. If you want to make the case that one team should be ranked higher than another, then make the case, but "the ______s suck!" or "the _______s are a joke!" is just meaningless bickering that is borderline baiting and will only piss people off without even making an actual point, so please cut it out.

bodupp311
09-26-2009, 09:12 AM
Bulls ahead of the Raptors????????
Unbelievable!!!:confused::mad:

raptor fans are delusional

bodupp311
09-26-2009, 09:19 AM
and Toronto better make a DEEP playoff run as much as I'm hearing their fans run their mouth

Kakaroach
09-26-2009, 10:35 AM
Suns should not be higher up than Jazz thats ridiculous. Other than that, their pretty fair.

ManRam
09-26-2009, 10:37 AM
which one of those two teams completely revamped their roster and which one lost a star player?:confused:

Revamping isn't always a great thing. I am curious to see how they all mesh together. Hedo isn't going to be as effective with a pure passing PG already on the team. And BG is not a star. All he is a high volume shooter. He does nothing else. He doesn't defend, pass, rebound, lead, anything. He just demands the ball and shoots.

The Bulls were a better team with him off the court (outscoring their opponents) than they were with him on it (being outscored) last year.

Plus, they get Deng back. I'd rather have Deng than Gorden. I'd almost rather have Deng than Hedo.

Toronto isn't going to play any defense next year. Chicago is going to play a lot.

goku
09-26-2009, 10:53 PM
Revamping isn't always a great thing. I am curious to see how they all mesh together. Hedo isn't going to be as effective with a pure passing PG already on the team. And BG is not a star. All he is a high volume shooter. He does nothing else. He doesn't defend, pass, rebound, lead, anything. He just demands the ball and shoots.

The Bulls were a better team with him off the court (outscoring their opponents) than they were with him on it (being outscored) last year.

Plus, they get Deng back. I'd rather have Deng than Gorden. I'd almost rather have Deng than Hedo.

Toronto isn't going to play any defense next year. Chicago is going to play a lot.

deng is hurt every yr

ManRam
09-26-2009, 11:08 PM
deng is hurt every yr

Besides last year, he's missed 11 games a year before last year. That's not terrible. He's been healthy to finish the season every year but last year. He's more likely to be healthy, and finish the season healthy than he is not to...way more likely.

RaptorizedKevin
09-27-2009, 12:11 AM
My Lord. as soon as i saw this thread i got ticked. chicago better than the raptors? well lets looky here. what did Chicago adress this offseason

Lost Ben gordon( da man with the clutch shots pure offense, no d or doesnt pass)
regained loul deng( from an injured season)
uhmm ..
rose and noah should get better.

idk what else chicogo did, but if they did anything else its not big news.

raptors now..

aquired Hedo Turkoglu( man with clutch shots who ledthe magic to the nba finals, with bad d)

aquired demarderozan( 9th pick , to have said he would live to be the next air canada)

Aquired Jarrat jack( solid starter last year at indiania, stilll has time to improve and get better to play bench minutes)

added marco belini( very good player who hasnt beenn getting the minutes

added defensive players> wright, evans, johnson, rasho nesterovich

overall the raptors improved their d, deph for sure( they have starters/potential starters playing bench )

and rebounding in some way, but barely

with bargnanis breakoutseason, theres alot more, especailly after signing a 50 mil contract. im talking bout 18 and 7 numbers or more.

Not to mention the 12 pounds of bulk from this summer fro bargs. improved post moves


bosh who has gained 15 lbs of bulk, no doubt his d, rebounding, and post moves have gotten better.

with the addition of health the raptors should be a tough to to guard. especailly when they have versitile players who can cause nitemares for poor or average defensive teams.

with the raptors health, they would ahd at least finished at .500 mark. with this overhaul and health, deefinatly a 50+ win i have no doubt. even if people clash with injures.. we arent screwed. our bench is very goood. we have starters on our bench, i'll say it again.


The bulls wouldnt had won many games if it wasnt for BG clutch shots, espeically in the playoffs, dont feel gased. bulls are not better. but than again lets see how the season turns out.

Draco
09-27-2009, 01:22 AM
My Lord. as soon as i saw this thread i got ticked. chicago better than the raptors? well lets looky here. what did Chicago adress this offseason

Lost Ben gordon( da man with the clutch shots pure offense, no d or doesnt pass)
regained loul deng( from an injured season)
uhmm ..
rose and noah should get better.

idk what else chicogo did, but if they did anything else its not big news.

raptors now..

aquired Hedo Turkoglu( man with clutch shots who ledthe magic to the nba finals, with bad d)

aquired demarderozan( 9th pick , to have said he would live to be the next air canada)

Aquired Jarrat jack( solid starter last year at indiania, stilll has time to improve and get better to play bench minutes)

added marco belini( very good player who hasnt beenn getting the minutes

added defensive players> wright, evans, johnson, rasho nesterovich

overall the raptors improved their d, deph for sure( they have starters/potential starters playing bench )

and rebounding in some way, but barely

with bargnanis breakoutseason, theres alot more, especailly after signing a 50 mil contract. im talking bout 18 and 7 numbers or more.

Not to mention the 12 pounds of bulk from this summer fro bargs. improved post moves


bosh who has gained 15 lbs of bulk, no doubt his d, rebounding, and post moves have gotten better.

with the addition of health the raptors should be a tough to to guard. especailly when they have versitile players who can cause nitemares for poor or average defensive teams.

with the raptors health, they would ahd at least finished at .500 mark. with this overhaul and health, deefinatly a 50+ win i have no doubt. even if people clash with injures.. we arent screwed. our bench is very goood. we have starters on our bench, i'll say it again.


The bulls wouldnt had won many games if it wasnt for BG clutch shots, espeically in the playoffs, dont feel gased. bulls are not better. but than again lets see how the season turns out.

It's already been mentioned in other threads but it's worth repeating here. Salmons and Miller only played the last 26 and 27 games respectively for the Bulls. The Bulls won 45.6% of their games before their arrival and 60% of their games after their arrival. Overall the Bulls won 50% of their games but looking ahead to next season at least there's some evidence to suggest they can do better.

It's also worth repeating that Deng and Hinrich played 49 and 51 games respectively last season and Deng missed the playoffs.

The Bulls also put in some work over the summer. It's weird that Raptor fans think off season improvement in players is something unique to their ball club.

Bulls.com: What kind of commitment did you see from the roster this offseason?

Forman: “I thought our guys, pretty much across the board, made great progress. For the most part, all of them were in here for large portions of the summer. Tyrus [Thomas] and Joakim [Noah] both worked on their skill level, and they’ve gotten bigger and stronger. Derrick [Rose] has worked on shooting, and during the USA trials, it looked like he has extended his range. He’s also getting more confidence. Luol [Deng] has absolutely lived in [the Berto Center]. He started the summer around 225 pounds and 10 percent body fat; now he’s up to 235 with five percent body fat. He literally lived in the gym. He’d bring his dinner and eat it in the player’s lounge inbetween his afternoon and evening workouts. The rookies have been here pretty consistently since summer league. Even veterans like Brad [Miller] and Lindsey [Hunter] have spent a lot of time in the gym. Kirk [Hinrich] has had the best summer since he’s been with the Bulls. He’s in great condition and he’s very motivated to have a good year. John Salmons is another guy who works on his game, his body and his conditioning all of the time.”
http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/forman_090925.html

RaptorizedKevin
09-27-2009, 12:24 PM
lol. we did improve on the offseason. and we improved in our core players calderon bosh and bargs. watch bargnani being a 20 and 7-8 guy. just watch.

we have a very good offensive front court.

bosh 22.7
turkoglu 17
Bargnani 15.4

but if yu look at the last month, bargnani was averaging 20.3 points a game. and bosh was averaging dwight howard rebounding numbers.

HiphopRelated
09-27-2009, 12:49 PM
Revamping isn't always a great thing. I am curious to see how they all mesh together. Hedo isn't going to be as effective with a pure passing PG already on the team. And BG is not a star. All he is a high volume shooter. He does nothing else. He doesn't defend, pass, rebound, lead, anything. He just demands the ball and shoots.

The Bulls were a better team with him off the court (outscoring their opponents) than they were with him on it (being outscored) last year.

Plus, they get Deng back. I'd rather have Deng than Gorden. I'd almost rather have Deng than Hedo.

Toronto isn't going to play any defense next year. Chicago is going to play a lot.
lol, Deng has had 1 good year his whole career. Bulls will be comedy this year without Gordon, they just don't know it yet.

Storch
09-27-2009, 01:50 PM
Bulls vs Raptors debate all over the place in this thread. It doesnt really matter anyway, neither can stand up against the cavs, magic, celtics, spurs, and lakers. :shrug:

Sly Guy
09-27-2009, 03:08 PM
Suns are way too high. Aside from that, pretty reasonable.

Draco
09-27-2009, 05:04 PM
lol, Deng has had 1 good year his whole career. Bulls will be comedy this year without Gordon, they just don't know it yet.

That's more than you can say for Bustnani. I think the comedy will be watching the Raptors try to get anywhere over the next five years with their crap defense.

ManRam
09-27-2009, 05:26 PM
lol, Deng has had 1 good year his whole career. Bulls will be comedy this year without Gordon, they just don't know it yet.

Yeah...which is why the Bulls were statistically a better team when Gordon wasn't playing than when he was.

Ben is a high volume shooter. That's it. He does nothing else. Salmons and Deng easily will pick up the weight lost...while playing this thing called defense at the same time...something not one Raptor player knows how to play.

zambo4president
09-27-2009, 05:35 PM
Bulls ahead of the Raptors????????
Unbelievable!!!:confused::mad:

The Bulls are better than the Raptors so how is that unbelievable?

zambo4president
09-27-2009, 05:38 PM
lol, Deng has had 1 good year his whole career. Bulls will be comedy this year without Gordon, they just don't know it yet.

Really? I think it's comedy that you think we got worse with losing Ben. Now we have a good defensive team who won't force shots and can pass the ball. Rose is only going to get better. Salmons will flourish as a full time starter. Deng will be back strong. Noah is developing into a good young defender and rebounder and Tyrus just sucks but when you bring Kirk and Brad Miller off the bench along with James Johnson, the Bulls are a force to be reckoned with.

smith&wesson
09-27-2009, 06:21 PM
i'm a big raps fan too bro but it sounds to me like you have had a little too much of the BC kool-aid. it was an impressive overhaul but there are plenty of questions about whether or not the pieces fit. this team will be very soft and very poor defensively. i for one am cautiously optimistic but think that there will be a lot of 40 point quarters by the opposing teams.


jack, reggie evans, wright, excell on defense.

bosh, bargs, johnson, turk, rasho are all decent defenders.

calderon, belli, are the only liabilities.

derozen has yet to play so we dont know...

were not looking that bad defensively, but it is a concern, hopefully the pieces fit well and Marc Iavaroni can help with the over all team defence. offensively we may very well have alot of 40 point quarters as well.

LanceUpperCut
09-27-2009, 06:24 PM
Yeah...which is why the Bulls were statistically a better team when Gordon wasn't playing than when he was.

Ben is a high volume shooter. That's it. He does nothing else. Salmons and Deng easily will pick up the weight lost...while playing this thing called defense at the same time...something not one Raptor player knows how to play.

Not one guy knows how to play D. Just cause thiers alot of white euros does'nt mean they can't play D. The raptors bench is a solid defensive group Jack, Marco, Wright, Amir, Rasho. And I know all the Bargnani haters will never except his skills no matter how good he gets, like anyone who watched the guy last year like us Raptor fans see's the defensive coming along good. All I know is every thing that was wrong last season B.C. addressed better than I could have ever imagined. I don't care how much you hate the raptors if you know anything about Basketball you can compare last years roster and this years roster and see the vast improvement. One more thing Bargnani had a great rookie year and horrible 2nd year and a good 3rd year so he's had one bad year people make it seem like he's played ****** for 10 years.

LanceUpperCut
09-27-2009, 06:25 PM
jack, reggie evans, wright, excell on defense.

bosh, bargs, johnson, turk, rasho are all decent defenders.

calderon, belli, are the only liabilities.

derozen has yet to play so we dont know...

were not looking that bad defensively, but it is a concern, hopefully the pieces fit well and Marc Iavaroni can help with the over all team defence. offensively we may very well have alot of 40 point quarters as well.

Hey Belli not that bad at all on D just cause he's a white euro does'nt mean he sucks. Jose will be better this year to.

MackSnackWrap
09-27-2009, 06:36 PM
raptor fans are delusional

Raps Fans are delusional? wtf its the other way around!

MackSnackWrap
09-27-2009, 06:37 PM
Hey Belli not that bad at all on D just cause he's a white euro does'nt mean he sucks. Jose will be better this year to.

True dat Bellenelis an avergae defender not more not less as for calderon i hope his defence is better this year

smith&wesson
09-27-2009, 06:42 PM
Hey Belli not that bad at all on D just cause he's a white euro does'nt mean he sucks. Jose will be better this year to.

lol, what makes you think i said that just because he is white and earopean, im pretty sure rasho is white and earopean and so is bargs and i put them on the decent defenders list...

the trueth is i hope belli is a decent defender, perhaps i did assume that he wasnt great on D, not because he is white or earopean but because i know he is an offensive minded player who started his career on a team thats terrible defensivley and playing under a coach that never preaches defence at all. thats where my assumption came from , not his ethnicity.

smith&wesson
09-27-2009, 06:47 PM
raptor fans are delusional

Explain your statement. explain why you think the bulls are better... or are you caught up in some kind of illusion yourself.

i think they are both decent teams on the rise... i dont know which will do better, and i think both teams are pretty talented. i dont know if either has a chance to win a 2nd round apeareance so if you asked me they could very well be on the same level. soo lets hear your responce. other then saying somthing with no substance behind it. im sure you are capable.