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Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 11:55 AM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2009/09/17/the-updated-top-25/


agree? Yes or no

Tom81
09-18-2009, 12:10 PM
I agree,maybe amare is too high.But it's ok.

ZHawk1123
09-18-2009, 12:11 PM
Agree for the most part... I would put Wade ahead of Howard and KG ahead of Dirk... I think I would also put Granger ahead of Durant... For the moment.

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 12:14 PM
booo no rose

thatmediadude
09-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Durant is better than 20th.. Wait and see! I agree with bbcmillionaire, I would put Rose at LEAST ahead of Ray Allen!

mitch91
09-18-2009, 12:39 PM
the ordered will be argued be everyone as we all have are own thoughts but i think most will agree on who is on the list...though i only glanced at it

ttam68
09-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Amare is overrated, and Iguodala needs to atleast make the list. He should be near 20.

mitch91
09-18-2009, 01:06 PM
Amare is overrated, and Iguodala needs to atleast make the list. He should be near 20.

id prefer amar'e over iggy but thats just me

AIMelo=KillaDUO
09-18-2009, 01:18 PM
id prefer amar'e over iggy but thats just me

so would I... but that's just us...

Carey
09-18-2009, 01:27 PM
I think Amare is a lil high, Ray Allen is one of my very favorite players but i dont think he's in the top 25 in the NBA

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Amare is too high.

Hellcrooner
09-18-2009, 01:34 PM
players like dirk, kg, duncan, shaq shold be on the down and pleyrs like duran, roy, granger shoudl be on the up IMO.

by the way parker isnt begtter than gasol

anyone saw spain crash france yesterday?

PAu 28 pts 14 rb Parker only 6 point (Rubio kicked his *** in d the whole game)

Vidball
09-18-2009, 01:35 PM
Finally...a list that doesn't overrate Bosh

Vidball
09-18-2009, 01:38 PM
players like dirk, kg, duncan, shaq shold be on the down and pleyrs like duran, roy, granger shoudl be on the up IMO.

by the way parker isnt begtter than gasol

anyone saw spain crash france yesterday?

PAu 28 pts 14 rb Parker only 6 point (Rubio kicked his *** in d the whole game)

Yeah...that was a great game. I was also impressed with how in shape Marc Gasol looks--although he looked totally out of place on the court and had trouble with some fundamentals (spacing, sealing his man, catching a pass).

In Parker's defense, he didn't get much help. Screens weren't even being set for him.

Ebbs
09-18-2009, 01:52 PM
its close i think duncan should decline a bit hes way past his prime..
i think pau and amare are both overrated..
And its missing rose

JordansBulls
09-18-2009, 01:59 PM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2009/09/17/the-updated-top-25/


agree? Yes or no

No way is Devin Harris higher than Rose nor should Ray Allen be top 25 at this point.

lakerssssssss
09-18-2009, 02:16 PM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2009/09/17/the-updated-top-25/


agree? Yes or no
I just knew that the list had lebron at #1 b/c hawkeye would never put a list that had kobe at #1.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 02:23 PM
I just knew that the list had lebron at #1 b/c hawkeye would never put a list that had kobe at #1.

not true. I posted a lind of Eddie Johnson's choices. Nothing more. You know, if you bothered to look at my entire body of posts, you would realize I say a ton of good things about Kobe Bryant as well. But, something tells me you haven't bothered to read them. Oh well.

Big Zo
09-18-2009, 02:24 PM
Dwyane Wade behind Howard? Hoopshype, you ****ed up...

GAWDtv
09-18-2009, 02:25 PM
Bron is #1, hands down. A.I. will crash that list like GangBustaz this season, yŠll sleeping on the 2nd Kummin of Kryst

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 02:26 PM
No way is Devin Harris higher than Rose nor should Ray Allen be top 25 at this point.

I think Harris and Rose are very close, but Harris is a better on the ball defender. Rose will surpass him this season, so you have a valid point, since this is a ranking for upcoming season.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 02:27 PM
Dwyane Wade behind Howard? Hoopshype, you ****ed up...

haha, I agree. All in all, I think:

Ray Allen is not top 25
Amare and Parker are far too high
Pau is slightly too high
Wade and Howard need to be swapped

lakerssssssss
09-18-2009, 02:28 PM
not true. I posted a lind of Eddie Johnson's choices. Nothing more. You know, if you bothered to look at my entire body of posts, you would realize I say a ton of good things about Kobe Bryant as well. But, something tells me you haven't bothered to read them. Oh well.

I actually went over your posts looking for something good u say about kobe, but have not found one. I don't care if u hate kobe(a lot of ppl do), I just don't like ppl who pretend to like sum1 but really don't. If I'm proven wrong, I apologize.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 02:31 PM
I actually went over your posts looking for something good u say about kobe, but have not found one. I don't care if u hate kobe(a lot of ppl do), I just don't like ppl who pretend to like sum1 but really don't. If I'm proven wrong, I apologize.

keep going brother. You will fine plenty. However, unlike many of the Laker fans here, I actually venture outside the Laker related threads, so you will actually find a heavy number that don't involve your god in any way.
No apology necessary. Don't really need it. Peace

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 02:45 PM
and by the way, I don't like Kobe. At all. But I respect his basketball game immensely. I think he is a great player. He was the best player in the NBA overall from 2004-2007. A top 15 player ever.
But I don't like him, and I don't support the Lakers winning. I don't pretend anything. I will stick up for him if someone says something stupid when talking about Kobe's basketball game. But nothing further.

ko8e24
09-18-2009, 02:46 PM
booo no rose

lemme guess, u watched b-ball til 97-98, then went into a coma until 08-09? Perhaps u missed the decade between jordan's last game as a bull and rose's 1st game.

Hellcrooner
09-18-2009, 03:30 PM
^thats a common illness i think it started in Boston and had people sleeping for 20 years :p

Raps18-19 Champ
09-18-2009, 03:40 PM
For the most of it.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 03:51 PM
^thats a common illness i think it started in Boston and had people sleeping for 20 years :p

haha, so true. Luckily for me, my team has never won crap, so I have always been, and am currently, in the bad days of my team.

pebloemer
09-18-2009, 03:59 PM
I think Harris and Rose are very close, but Harris is a better on the ball defender. Rose will surpass him this season, so you have a valid point, since this is a ranking for upcoming season.


Is it though? He makes comments like,
"If Harris is not a Top 20 player this season, I will be disappointed." Then he rates Harris at 24. It sounds like these are rankings going into the upcoming season, not who will be where by the end.

Also, this comment about Durant:
"He will be an All-Star the rest of his career and will flirt with the All-NBA team at season’s end." It seems to me that he is basing rankings on the current status of things.

blazerman
09-18-2009, 04:22 PM
No way Pau Gasol is top 10, he is a good player on a really good team with the best player in the league(or top 2). Gasol is top 20 but no way is he a 10, Amare is way too high and Steve Nash is suspect over Granger and definitely not better than Durant.

Im not cutting these guys down Laker or Suns fans because I really like Gasol,Amare and Nash but some of those other guys are better thats all.

jim51990
09-18-2009, 04:25 PM
if d -will and park switched spots i agree and also d wade should be above of dwight until he can make a shot besides a dunk

Vinny642
09-18-2009, 04:28 PM
Wow CP3 number 6? I dont like the top 10 List, Wade and CP over Howard and Duncan

Fayzon10
09-18-2009, 04:31 PM
and by the way, I don't like Kobe. At all. But I respect his basketball game immensely. I think he is a great player. He was the best player in the NBA overall from 2004-2007. A top 15 player ever.
But I don't like him, and I don't support the Lakers winning. I don't pretend anything. I will stick up for him if someone says something stupid when talking about Kobe's basketball game. But nothing further. I've never understood why people dislike players for no valid reason I can understand if you're team is in a heated rivalry with the Lakers or something how you could dislike a player for that reason but for people to dislike a player for no valid reason is beyond me I am a Lakers fan but I don't dislike any players in the league I don't know any of them personally so I can't say I dislike them in anyway because I don't know them.. What is the beef with Kobe?? What has Kobe done wrong that no other player in the league has done wrong??

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Is it though? He makes comments like, Then he rates Harris at 24. It sounds like these are rankings going into the upcoming season, not who will be where by the end.

Also, this comment about Durant: It seems to me that he is basing rankings on the current status of things.

you could be right. I scanned thru the players, but I only read the explanation on a couple. Comments like that would lead me to believe he means today, or based on last season. It does make a difference.

celticsfan18ty
09-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Lebron should not be number 1 he has not won a ring yet kobe should be be number 1 he took his team to the championship and won with out shaq last season i hate the lakers but i give people there credit when they win and one more thing paul pierce should be ranked higher than that

MackSnackWrap
09-18-2009, 04:40 PM
Amare ahead of bosh :facepalm:

Vinny642
09-18-2009, 04:44 PM
Lebron should not be number 1 he has not won a ring yet kobe should be be number 1 he took his team to the championship and won with out shaq last season i hate the lakers but i give people there credit when they win and one more thing paul pierce should be ranked higher than that

OMFG so what if Lebron doesnt got a ring, he is still un****ing stoppable, more unstoppable then kobe

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Lebron should not be number 1 he has not won a ring yet kobe should be be number 1 he took his team to the championship and won with out shaq last season i hate the lakers but i give people there credit when they win and one more thing paul pierce should be ranked higher than that

Teams win rings. Look at their teams, and the help that each had. There wasn't a single all star caliber player on the Cavs after LeBron. (Mo does not count for me, he was named as a replacement for Jameer by Stern himself, only because a team with that many wins should only have one all star, at least typically, so they threw a mercy naming at Mo, sorry). Everyone else on his team sucked

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 04:49 PM
OMFG so what if Lebron doesnt got a ring, he is still un****ing stoppable, more unstoppable then kobe

when he gets one, they will say, "Kobe has 4, Better!"
There is always going to be some reason in their heads. Oh well

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 04:51 PM
lemme guess, u watched b-ball til 97-98, then went into a coma until 08-09? Perhaps u missed the decade between jordan's last game as a bull and rose's 1st game.

actually i was a bulls fan since birth, and besides lets see where kobe is in 8 years and where rose is:D

jm413
09-18-2009, 04:52 PM
wade should definitely be higher than Dwight howard

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 04:56 PM
I've never understood why people dislike players for no valid reason I can understand if you're team is in a heated rivalry with the Lakers or something how you could dislike a player for that reason but for people to dislike a player for no valid reason is beyond me I am a Lakers fan but I don't dislike any players in the league I don't know any of them personally so I can't say I dislike them in anyway because I don't know them.. What is the beef with Kobe?? What has Kobe done wrong that no other player in the league has done wrong??

I can like or not like anyone I choose. His team knocked mine out of the playoffs a couple times. I didn't like the way he handled the trade demand, the comments he made about his young center, the wave off of Karl Malone in the all star game, the way he carries himself with his teammates, barking orders at them like they are dogs. Whatever. I respect him highly as a player, and think he is an unreal basketball player. But I don't like what I have seen of him.
And the fact is, many of the all time greats in any sports are douches.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 04:57 PM
actually i was a bulls fan since birth, and besides lets see where kobe is in 8 years and where rose is:D

Kobe will be sitting on the top 10 of all time list, with lots of hardware and money. Who knows what Rose will be doing.

Vinny642
09-18-2009, 04:59 PM
when he gets one, they will say, "Kobe has 4, Better!"
There is always going to be some reason in their heads. Oh well

yea it doesnt end with them, Rings are one of the worst excuses ever, because it always comes down to robert horry.

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Kobe will be sitting on the top 10 of all time list, with lots of hardware and money. Who knows what Rose will be doing.

well not number 1, its that guy umm 23 his initials were MJ:p

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 05:01 PM
well not number 1, its that guy umm 23 his initials were MJ:p

no way he will catch MJ, Bird, or Magic in my book. But he should have a place in top 10 of all time at this point if he has a couple more good years.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 05:03 PM
yea it doesnt end with them, Rings are one of the worst excuses ever, because it always comes down to robert horry.

When is a career is over, rings can define two players who are of the same class. If comparing two elite players, with similar numbers, then rings can and should be used. But while they are active, and especially when ones career is far behind the others as far as age/future production, etc, rings can not define anything yet. They are simply a last ditch effort to win an argument. But lets be honest. If Stockton had a ring or two, he would be ranked with Magic equally. If Barkley had a ring or two, he would be rated as the best PF ever possibly. It does make a difference when ones career is over.

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 05:05 PM
no way he will catch MJ, Bird, or Magic in my book. But he should have a place in top 10 of all time at this point if he has a couple more good years.

yes, kobe is top 5 already.

mike
bird
magic
kobe
tim duncan
shaq
wilt
jerry west
dr.j
john stockton my top 10

THE_FLASH_21
09-18-2009, 05:07 PM
Dweezy is not 13... lol he's a top 7 at worst.. Paul LOL.. whatever.. and Durant was way to high.. maybe 12 or so!

mikantsass
09-18-2009, 05:08 PM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2009/09/17/the-updated-top-25/


agree? Yes or no


I find 2 things wrong with this.

1. Kobe should be #1 not LeBron
2. Pau Gasol is NOT a top 10 player. IMO he should be between 20 and 25

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 05:09 PM
yes, kobe is top 5 already.

mike
bird
magic
kobe
tim duncan
shaq
wilt
jerry west
dr.j
john stockton my top 10

I have a different top 10. And there is no way he is ahead of Shaq yet. Nor Duncan. Where is Kareem? Where is Russell?

D Roses Bulls
09-18-2009, 05:10 PM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2009/09/17/the-updated-top-25/


agree? Yes or no

HELL NO I DONT AGREE!!!!!

lebron number 1? i dont even like kobe bryant, but i think he is better and i also think wade is better as well. Dwight Howard, love him but i think he is 4th, but i would pick him number one to build a franchise around like phil jackson said. i also think tony parker is rated way to high, hes not underrated, he's overrated, he's good but definitely not better then deron williams.

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
kareem the dreamshake was the man, it was him or wilt

Shahrose
09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
Kevin Durant should be ranked much higher

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
HELL NO I DONT AGREE!!!!!

lebron number 1? i dont even like kobe bryant, but i think he is better and i also think wade is better as well. Dwight Howard, love him but i think he is 4th, but i would pick him number one to build a franchise around like phil jackson said. i also think tony parker is rated way to high, hes not underrated, he's overrated, he's good but definitely not better then deron williams.

while I disagree with your first part, I think Deron is too low as well, or at least I agree that Parker is too high, and should be behind Deron

D Roses Bulls
09-18-2009, 05:12 PM
I have a different top 10. And there is no way he is ahead of Shaq yet. Nor Duncan. Where is Kareem? Where is Russell?

kobe will never be ahead of shaq, not bill, or wilt. hell i dont even think he will get on magic or birds level either. even bias *** espn ranked jerry west over kobe bryant in the all time shooting guards list.

D Roses Bulls
09-18-2009, 05:17 PM
while I disagree with your first part, I think Deron is too low as well, or at least I agree that Parker is too high, and should be behind Deron

lebron doesnt have a jumper. he still doesnt know how to get his team over that hump even with the talent they had last year and no one can say other wise cause everyone picked them to go to the finals. kobe does have a ring without shaq at least even though his team was damn good this year, he exposed lebron big time in the two games they played last year. wade has a ring, finals mvp with an aging shaq would didnt produce double digits in rebounds and i believe points as well in 2006 playoffs. also, this past season not just his scoring but his defensive numbers were off the chart. yeah though williams is better then parker

BkOriginalOne
09-18-2009, 05:17 PM
Kobe is better thab LBJ.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 05:17 PM
kobe will never be ahead of shaq, not bill, or wilt. hell i dont even think he will get on magic or birds level either. even bias *** espn ranked jerry west over kobe bryant in the all time shooting guards list.

I think Kobe passes Jerry West. But I find it hard to swallow that he will get by Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Bird, Kareem, or Magic. I think he ends up around 6-7 in my book.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 05:19 PM
lebron doesnt have a jumper. he still doesnt know how to get his team over that hump even with the talent they had last year and no one can say other wise cause everyone picked them to go to the finals. kobe does have a ring without sha at least even though his team was damn good this year, he exposed lebron big time in the two games they played last year. wade has a ring, finals mvp with an aging sha would didnt produce double digits in rebounds and i believe points as well in 2006 playoffs. also, this past season not just his scoring but his defensive numbers were off the chart. yeah thought williams is better then parker

I am not gonna argue this same old crap. And what help for LeBron are you referring to?? This will be the only response to that argument, it has been done time and time again. If you actually think what LeBron had was a contending supporting cast, you are sorely mistaken. They are a collection of cast offs, past their prime vets, and single skilled role players. Nothing more.

Zefflin
09-18-2009, 05:19 PM
Haha no, and as soon as I saw it was hawkeye who posted the thread I already knew the top 2 order.

Fayzon10
09-18-2009, 05:52 PM
I can like or not like anyone I choose. His team knocked mine out of the playoffs a couple times. I didn't like the way he handled the trade demand, the comments he made about his young center, the wave off of Karl Malone in the all star game, the way he carries himself with his teammates, barking orders at them like they are dogs. Whatever. I respect him highly as a player, and think he is an unreal basketball player. But I don't like what I have seen of him.
And the fact is, many of the all time greats in any sports are douches. Of course that's your choice to dislike him my point was that some fans just go too far with the dislike when truth is in todays free agency the guy you say you dislike might end up on your team, then what?? The majority of athletes today have been treated like they were gods gift to mankind since they were 10 yrs old so alot of them grow up thinking they can do whatever they want.. There has been countless examples of that so to question Kobe's character and dislike him for it when your favorite player most likely does things that you wouldn't agree with, it's just silly to dislike a player for doing something that a huge majority of players do. Seriously you could research any player in any sport and find some kind of dirt on them that would tarnish their character to hate one and not the others just seems weird..

Vinny642
09-18-2009, 05:58 PM
When is a career is over, rings can define two players who are of the same class. If comparing two elite players, with similar numbers, then rings can and should be used. But while they are active, and especially when ones career is far behind the others as far as age/future production, etc, rings can not define anything yet. They are simply a last ditch effort to win an argument. But lets be honest. If Stockton had a ring or two, he would be ranked with Magic equally. If Barkley had a ring or two, he would be rated as the best PF ever possibly. It does make a difference when ones career is over.

Thats what I meant :D
I just didnt feel like typing

Chronz
09-18-2009, 06:09 PM
Overrated: Deron, Pierce

Underrated: Amare, Roy, Billups, Wade

Chronz
09-18-2009, 06:10 PM
No way is Devin Harris higher than Rose nor should Ray Allen be top 25 at this point.
Fixed it

As for Ray Ray, you do know that there have been maybe 4 or 5 50PT games in the playoffs this decade, and Ray just had one of them. Yes it came against bad defender and a team that had to rely on a rookie PG as turnover prone as Rose, but its still impressive.


Hope you like the jabs to your kidneys

Draco
09-18-2009, 06:16 PM
If Billups is underrated he certainly didn't prove it in last seasons Laker/Nuggets series. He was mediocre.

Zefflin
09-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Overrated: Turks (i hate to say it)

Underrated: Deron, Pierce, Amare and VC

Fixed it.
I'm just confused by this...we don't agree on much...

Chronz
09-18-2009, 06:38 PM
I was just talking about the players on the list, but I agree VC is underrated, just not top 25 underrated, well maybe but I havent really thought about it. But we both agree Amare is underrated.

Deron has always been overrated, it happens when people like a players skills and talent over his actual on court contributions. Derons game is so pretty, and hes a big PG so most people think hes a good defender. But truthfully, as pretty as Derons crossover is, the fact that he has to rely on it so much makes him turnover prone, most PG's have innate quickness or intelligence to either blow by you without the need to crossover (therefore protecting the ball) or are so crafty that they can score hella efficiently without the athletic gifts.

Deron could end up at that level, and in some respects he is underrated. But in this list, where hes rated and who hes rated in front of is a sham.

Zefflin
09-18-2009, 06:42 PM
I was just talking about the players on the list, but I agree VC is underrated, just not top 25 underrated, well maybe but I havent really thought about it. But we both agree Amare is underrated.

Deron has always been overrated, it happens when people like a players skills over his actual on court contributions.

Oh I see, yes and yeah. But I can see what you mean by Deron. I myself like him more for his individual skills but he has done a very very good job with Utah. You can't overlook that. He's still a top 3 PG in the league. Top 2 IMO.

sugarrayray
09-18-2009, 07:19 PM
Durant is better than 20th.. Wait and see! I agree with bbcmillionaire, I would put Rose at LEAST ahead of Ray Allen!

rose is not yet better than ray allen, rays presence alone leads a team better. Let me ask you, who would u rather have had playing for you in the bulls-celtics series, ray allen or derrick rose?

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 07:34 PM
rose is not yet better than ray allen, rays presence alone leads a team better. Let me ask you, who would u rather have had playing for you in the bulls-celtics series, ray allen or derrick rose?

i got you mediadude, the only person on the celtics that was more dynamic and valuable to their team in the playoffs was rondo. Ray allen equaled ben gordon with his absence on defense and offense for like the first 2 quarter. not to mention ray allen was a non-factor in two games. While rose showed up every game.

to answer your question, i'd take the more reliable playmaking point gaurd instead of a spot up 3 point hitter/clutch shooter with questionable defense

bbcmillionaire
09-18-2009, 07:35 PM
and why is carmelo that low, he should be right around wade

_KB24_
09-18-2009, 07:43 PM
I am not gonna argue this same old crap. And what help for LeBron are you referring to?? This will be the only response to that argument, it has been done time and time again. If you actually think what LeBron had was a contending supporting cast, you are sorely mistaken. They are a collection of cast offs, past their prime vets, and single skilled role players. Nothing more.

Place any other star wing man ( Roy, Melo, Wade, Kobe, ) and there still contenders. That team was a real good team and you don't just win 66 games and have the best defense in the league because of one player.

Lakersfan2483
09-18-2009, 07:43 PM
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/johnson/2009/09/17/the-updated-top-25/


agree? Yes or no

How is Dwight Howard ranked ahead of D. Wade? Why is Ray Allen among the top 25 players in the NBA? There are way too many things wrong with this list....

Lakersfan2483
09-18-2009, 07:44 PM
Place any other star wing man ( Roy, Melo, Wade, Kobe, ) and there still contenders. That team was a real good team and you don't just win 66 games and have the best defense in the league because of one player.


Agree completely.

Chronz
09-18-2009, 07:56 PM
Place any other star wing man ( Roy, Melo, Wade, Kobe, ) and there still contenders. That team was a real good team and you don't just win 66 games and have the best defense in the league because of one player.

But thats not what he said at all


Agree completely.

Then could you clarify how it relates to his argument?

_KB24_
09-18-2009, 09:46 PM
But thats not what he said at all



Then could you clarify how it relates to his argument?

Buddy, he said that the Cavs supporting cast was not of a contender. So your telling me that a team with 66 + plus wins and the best defense based on last year does not have a "contending" cast and is a one-man show? The Cavs supporting cast has been extremely under-rated last year.

Shady66
09-18-2009, 09:59 PM
^ If anything, they were severally over rated, especially mo williams. If you take lebron off of that team, and put in somebody like jackson at the SF, that team would not make the playoffs in the east last year.

Chronz
09-18-2009, 10:04 PM
Buddy, he said that the Cavs supporting cast was not of a contender. So your telling me that a team with 66 + plus wins and the best defense based on last year does not have a "contending" cast and is a one-man show? The Cavs supporting cast has been extremely under-rated last year.

Every word he said was true but lets break it down shall we,

If you actually think what LeBron had was a contending supporting cast, you are sorely mistaken. They are a collection of cast offs, past their prime vets, and single skilled role players. Nothing more.

Where in that post do you see the words, one man show? Still he would be right in thinking that if your talking about the best teams in the league. No team in their class relied as much on one player as the Cavs did Bron, and his sidekick went blank when the pressure of the playoffs hit. It happens you move on.

Tell me how many wins do you think they wouldve had without Bron? Would any of the conference finalist teams suffer as great of a drop due to a single player? Therefore, relatively speaking Bron was a one man show. The same way MJ was a one man show when he was winning titles, no player ever consistently accounted for the majority of his teams possessions while on a championship team the way MJ did on route to 6 rings.

Obviously he wasnt surrounded by crap, its been said so often that its become cliche, no one wins by themselves, no ****, account for that and compare the loads. MJ was as much of a one man show for 6 titles as we'll ever see in this league. Unless Bron won a title last year, in which case it wouldve been the greatest season of all time. Im really hoping Shaq doesnt decline this year the way Dream and much of his peers did at this age. Hes really all Bron needs if he doesnt diminish much.

Chronz
09-18-2009, 10:08 PM
^ If anything, they were severally over rated, especially mo williams. If you take lebron off of that team, and put in somebody like jackson at the SF, that team would not make the playoffs in the east last year.

No joke, but thats partly why Id want Bron to leave, so that people could get that same ahha moment that Billups getting traded had on people. I tried to tell everyone how great he was, few listened.

The Lakers with Kobe and Shaq were contenders, but if you took Shaq off the squad the Lakers werent a playoff lock and they had a player greater than anyone on the Cavs team, so really all hes doing by mentioning their win total, with THAT supporting cast is boosting LeBrons case.

barreleffact
09-18-2009, 10:13 PM
this list is an epic fail. chris paul could make an argument for the best in the league and he's number 6. at worst he's number 4. LJ and KB can swap. they almost have to be above him cuz they have noone that can check them at all, but paul was exposed by the nuggets. he and wade go 3 and 4. then howard. then the list gets gray. plenty of players should be a lot higher and amare at 12 is laughable considering noone knows what he has to offer right now. thats like putting mcgrady on the list just because his "remotivation"

nuggetsyankees
09-18-2009, 10:33 PM
melo #11....behind duncan....it's amazing what the world has come to

toovey107
09-18-2009, 10:37 PM
melo #11....behind duncan....it's amazing what the world has come to
stop being a homer

MrFastBreak
09-18-2009, 10:42 PM
its close i think duncan should decline a bit hes way past his prime..
i think pau and amare are both overrated..
And its missing rose

No it's not. He is not YET a top 25 player in the NBA.


And for the list.. Melo should not be lower than Gasol. He should be higher than Parker.
And Billups is too low.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 11:39 PM
Of course that's your choice to dislike him my point was that some fans just go too far with the dislike when truth is in todays free agency the guy you say you dislike might end up on your team, then what?? The majority of athletes today have been treated like they were gods gift to mankind since they were 10 yrs old so alot of them grow up thinking they can do whatever they want.. There has been countless examples of that so to question Kobe's character and dislike him for it when your favorite player most likely does things that you wouldn't agree with, it's just silly to dislike a player for doing something that a huge majority of players do. Seriously you could research any player in any sport and find some kind of dirt on them that would tarnish their character to hate one and not the others just seems weird..

I agree on the point you are trying to make, but not the criticism. It is your given right to like or not like whatever you want.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 11:40 PM
Overrated: Deron, Pierce

Underrated: Amare, Roy, Billups, Wade

no way Amare is underrated. We can discuss this if you like.

Hawkeye15
09-18-2009, 11:42 PM
Place any other star wing man ( Roy, Melo, Wade, Kobe, ) and there still contenders. That team was a real good team and you don't just win 66 games and have the best defense in the league because of one player.

I will give you the possibility that Kobe could get them to be a contender. But the others, haha. Ok. Then the same can be said that if you replace Kobe with LJ, Wade, Melo, Roy, they are the champs.
And that is even bs.

_KB24_
09-19-2009, 12:23 AM
I will give you the possibility that Kobe could get them to be a contender. But the others, haha. Ok. Then the same can be said that if you replace Kobe with LJ, Wade, Melo, Roy, they are the champs.
And that is even bs.

You don't honestly think that Wade or Melo could be just as good if they were on the Cavs team? And were not talking about the Lakers because they get their credit. The Cavs on the other hand, are always frowned upon.

shep33
09-19-2009, 12:36 AM
Brandon Roy should be top 10. Dwight should be 4th behind kobe, bron, and Wade. Even though i love the Spaniard, he shouldn't be top 10 right now, maybe more like 20-25. I can see why Gilbert Arenas isn't on the list, just cause he hasn't played in 2 years. But how about this... where is Caron Butler?! This guy shoulda made the list, i think he's just as valuable as some of the other players on this list. No Vince either?

AFlagRules
09-19-2009, 10:18 AM
Bosh where Amare is and we're set.

Kurple
09-19-2009, 01:36 PM
Melo should be over KG, Parker, Pau & Duncan

Chicagofaithful
09-19-2009, 01:57 PM
not really... i would rearrange so many of them

AllTheWay
09-19-2009, 02:40 PM
Amare is too high. TP is too.

GHOSTSNIPER
09-19-2009, 02:50 PM
So he calls Kobe the best scorer and defender but it doesn't translate into being the best.The joke stops here.The list was trash once I read that.

HouRealCoach
09-19-2009, 06:26 PM
This is ****.... Dirk better than KG, Joe Johnson better than Granger, and Durant. Billups is too low..... AND GASOL AT 10 and Steve NAsh isnt better than Devin Harris at the moment

TheMicrowave
09-19-2009, 10:44 PM
I don't like it at all.