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View Full Version : Allow me to defend Allen Iverson...



cmacmath
09-09-2009, 12:46 PM
I'm not going to speak on his All-Star appearances, MVP's, ROY's, Scoring titles, etc. because everyone knows that and that often works against him because that is when people call him selfish...

But let's talk about the last 2-3 years and his sudden fall from grace:

Just one year ago...so not last year (Pistons debacle) but the year before that (not that long ago people) Allen Iverson was third in the NBA in scoring...it went Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson...I think people forget that...he was 32 and 3rd in the NBA in scoring on a 50 win playoff team...he hasn't fallen THAT off...

Then there was the Detroit situation and he has sort of been blamed for this because its easy to make him the scapegoat (talking to you Piston fans), but let's talk about what has taken place with the Detroit Pistons in the last year:

1. trade your finals MVP Chauncey Billups
2. Fire your head coach after just one season (how many coaches has Detroit gone thru??)
3. trade Amir Johnson
4. Rasheed doesnt want to resign
5. McDyess doesnt want to resign
6. Commit to Stuckey even tho he is overrated
7. Kwame Brown starting
8. Swept out of the playoffs (without Allen Iverson)

There was a lot more going on in that organization that just Allen Iverson...not to mention you brought him into a team that plays slow when he plays uptempo and basically told him "we don't want you here, we just want your contract"...JOE DUMARS IS TO BLAME PISTON FANS!!!! He ruined your organization, not Iverson...case in point...you bring in Ben Gordon (a poor man's Iverson)...did you not learn from your mistakes?? Or did you trade Rip and/or Stuckey and I'm missing something??

Lastly, for all the talk of Iverson being a "loser" lets talk about his career....so not individual achievements, but his teams:

1. was the #1 overall pick in the draft so he was obviously coming to a team that was bad...how bad you ask? They won 18 games the year before
2. Within 3 years Iverson had them in the playoffs
3. For his career teams with Allen Iverson STARTING on them are 486-466 or 20 games over .500
4. He has LED a team to the playoffs 8 times in his career and been out of the first round at least 4 times...i repeat second round 4 times...
5. After the lockout in 99, Philly went on to win 56 games, 43 games, 48 games, and 43 games...one year they went 33-49...BECAUSE?!?!?! Iverson only played 40 games that season...

I have no clue if this Memphis situation will be a bust or not...probably...but Iverson is not done and his career should not be overlooked and he has made plenty of BAD teams good in the past...

The Knicks should have signed him, I am done...

JordansBulls
09-09-2009, 02:07 PM
Raptors needed him.

IBleedPurple
09-09-2009, 02:43 PM
At least you can help Iverson defend himself....because Iverson can't defend anyone else

ChiSox219
09-09-2009, 02:58 PM
At least you can help Iverson defend himself....because Iverson can't defend anyone else

+1, great stuff

Raph12
09-09-2009, 03:33 PM
At least you can help Iverson defend himself....because Iverson can't defend anyone else

Lmao, that was a good one, in all seriousness though, AI is being picked on a bit too much. Detroit was a bad situation and to be honest I don't think Memphis is too much better, but we'll just wait and see I guess.

lorenz00
09-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Lmao, that was a good one, in all seriousness though, AI is being picked on a bit too much. Detroit was a bad situation and to be honest I don't think Memphis is too much better, but we'll just wait and see I guess.

agreed iverson was all to blame in pistons down Lol... i think its all on dumars for trusting stucky to be the point man

lorenz00
09-09-2009, 04:18 PM
Raptors needed him.

nah yo we dont need iverson... not because he sucks or anything we have 2 ball handlers already :D hedo and jose. we just need defense

IversonIsKrazy
09-09-2009, 04:24 PM
well said cmacmath

KG2TB
09-09-2009, 04:41 PM
Allen Iverson, Zach Randolph, OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay...one ball...should be an interesting season for the Grizz

MackSnackWrap
09-09-2009, 04:41 PM
Raptors needed him.

No i dont think the Raps needed him, we have enough depth at the pg and sg positions respectively.

asandhu23
09-09-2009, 04:47 PM
you can't defend Iverson, he will cross you, cross you again and make a quick 3 so fast, Wilt Chamberlain's ashes would be like DAMN.


^ Warning: joke made by my brother. It does not express the viewpoints of Asandhu23

NiTEFuRY
09-09-2009, 04:47 PM
I am a pistons fan and do fall into that category of a non-believer in iverson. Just so we're clear, the year he was averaging 32pts as you said was either 4 or 5 years ago. He did not play all 82 games and was averaging almost 25 shots per night.

For the first time in his career the pistons organization asked him to do something he was not comfortable in doing, and we're not talking about practice. His reaction allowed the world to see his true character.

Yes, last year was not a great year for the pistons, and im sure you will find a way to tear me another one last year, but the nucleus of the pistons would have allowed AI to get closer to a championship than he has been in quite a few years - he helped that situation become a non-reality. JoeMars had alot to do with last years failings, but it was evident so did AI.

and a quick refute;

1. trade your finals MVP Chauncey Billups - Yes, clearly a big mistake, but we thought we could have a sucessful floor general in AI (which was WRONG).
2. Fire your head coach after just one season (how many coaches has Detroit gone thru??)last time I checked this was Currys team while he was playing, nothing changed mid-season
3. - 5. Re: Amir/Sheed/Dyess That all happened after the season
6. Commit to Stuckey even tho he is overrated. I happen to agree, but this could have shown how AI could develop another "star" player
7. Kwame Brown startingThat remains to be seen, we like Wilcox around here
8. Swept out of the playoffs (without Allen Iverson)Yes, without him. He was benched because of his attitude and classified as a team distraction.

Bottom line, we were fine without him - and will be fine after him. I am worried about Memphis, who he has now pushed Conley out of the lineup and stunted his growth. Not to mention other players who need minutes who AI will take away from.

mikantsass
09-09-2009, 05:01 PM
I'm not going to speak on his All-Star appearances, MVP's, ROY's, Scoring titles, etc. because everyone knows that and that often works against him because that is when people call him selfish...

But let's talk about the last 2-3 years and his sudden fall from grace:

Just one year ago...so not last year (Pistons debacle) but the year before that (not that long ago people) Allen Iverson was third in the NBA in scoring...it went Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson...I think people forget that...he was 32 and 3rd in the NBA in scoring on a 50 win playoff team...he hasn't fallen THAT off...

Then there was the Detroit situation and he has sort of been blamed for this because its easy to make him the scapegoat (talking to you Piston fans), but let's talk about what has taken place with the Detroit Pistons in the last year:

1. trade your finals MVP Chauncey Billups
2. Fire your head coach after just one season (how many coaches has Detroit gone thru??)
3. trade Amir Johnson
4. Rasheed doesnt want to resign
5. McDyess doesnt want to resign
6. Commit to Stuckey even tho he is overrated
7. Kwame Brown starting
8. Swept out of the playoffs (without Allen Iverson)

There was a lot more going on in that organization that just Allen Iverson...not to mention you brought him into a team that plays slow when he plays uptempo and basically told him "we don't want you here, we just want your contract"...JOE DUMARS IS TO BLAME PISTON FANS!!!! He ruined your organization, not Iverson...case in point...you bring in Ben Gordon (a poor man's Iverson)...did you not learn from your mistakes?? Or did you trade Rip and/or Stuckey and I'm missing something??

Lastly, for all the talk of Iverson being a "loser" lets talk about his career....so not individual achievements, but his teams:

1. was the #1 overall pick in the draft so he was obviously coming to a team that was bad...how bad you ask? They won 18 games the year before
2. Within 3 years Iverson had them in the playoffs
3. For his career teams with Allen Iverson STARTING on them are 486-466 or 20 games over .500
4. He has LED a team to the playoffs 8 times in his career and been out of the first round at least 4 times...i repeat second round 4 times...
5. After the lockout in 99, Philly went on to win 56 games, 43 games, 48 games, and 43 games...one year they went 33-49...BECAUSE?!?!?! Iverson only played 40 games that season...

I have no clue if this Memphis situation will be a bust or not...probably...but Iverson is not done and his career should not be overlooked and he has made plenty of BAD teams good in the past...

The Knicks should have signed him, I am done...


Couldnt agree more. I'd add that his Hoyas team wasnt too shabby either. That being said, it is going to be very interesting to see how the Memphis team can gel. It seems as if their "big 4" all have the same label (lead scorer). I am a big Iverson fan and wish nothing but the best for him.

mikantsass
09-09-2009, 05:02 PM
nah yo we dont need iverson... not because he sucks or anything we have 2 ball handlers already :D hedo and jose. we just need defense

I'd take Iverson over Jose and Hedo in a heartbeat

PLAYERS FAN
09-09-2009, 05:15 PM
I am a pistons fan and do fall into that category of a non-believer in iverson. Just so we're clear, the year he was averaging 32pts as you said was either 4 or 5 years ago. He did not play all 82 games and was averaging almost 25 shots per night.

For the first time in his career the pistons organization asked him to do something he was not comfortable in doing, and we're not talking about practice. His reaction allowed the world to see his true character.

Yes, last year was not a great year for the pistons, and im sure you will find a way to tear me another one last year, but the nucleus of the pistons would have allowed AI to get closer to a championship than he has been in quite a few years - he helped that situation become a non-reality. JoeMars had alot to do with last years failings, but it was evident so did AI.

and a quick refute;

1. trade your finals MVP Chauncey Billups - Yes, clearly a big mistake, but we thought we could have a sucessful floor general in AI (which was WRONG).
2. Fire your head coach after just one season (how many coaches has Detroit gone thru??)last time I checked this was Currys team while he was playing, nothing changed mid-season
3. - 5. Re: Amir/Sheed/Dyess That all happened after the season
6. Commit to Stuckey even tho he is overrated. I happen to agree, but this could have shown how AI could develop another "star" player
7. Kwame Brown startingThat remains to be seen, we like Wilcox around here
8. Swept out of the playoffs (without Allen Iverson)Yes, without him. He was benched because of his attitude and classified as a team distraction.

Bottom line, we were fine without him - and will be fine after him. I am worried about Memphis, who he has now pushed Conley out of the lineup and stunted his growth. Not to mention other players who need minutes who AI will take away from.

I use to respect A.I. until what he did in Detroit! Going to the Memphis tells me(IMO) he's trying to get Mike Conley spot. Just look at Paul Pierce who sacrifice his scoring for a championship. I don't think Iverson will never sacrifice his scoring.:(

koberulesall
09-09-2009, 05:19 PM
its funny how people try to "defend" a player like iverson and say hes sooooo bad *** when he shoots barley over 40% and has ZERO rings he never was and never will be anything special in the nba then just a little ball hog

ps that mvp he won was BS

PLAYERS FAN
09-09-2009, 05:39 PM
its funny how people try to "defend" a player like iverson and say hes sooooo bad *** when he shoots barley over 40% and has ZERO rings he never was and never will be anything special in the nba then just a little ball hog

ps that mvp he won was BS

Iverson deserve that MVP!

Missing56&33
09-09-2009, 05:40 PM
never thought that he would go through something like this....I guess he should have tolerated the sixers franchise more than he did.

levignjw
09-09-2009, 05:46 PM
Pretty sad thread my man. You try to "defend" Iverson by taking shots at guy that has been one of the best GM's in the league over the years. The Pistons are in a transition period. Rasheed is a damn cancer and Curry was never meant to be as a HC. GM's make mistakes, some more than others, but if we want to take shots at other team's front offices why don't we take a look at our own first (just to be clear that would be the New York Knicks).

Iverson is not a team player and never has been. He came to this Piston's team with the initial mentality of being willing to do whatever it took to help this team win. But we all saw how quickly he is not a man of his word because the guy's ego is the size of a damn elephant. Before "defending" this so called superstar Iverson, how about you analyze his character as a man before analyzing a Detroit Pistons team that has been quite dominant over the years.

Chronz
09-09-2009, 07:20 PM
Didnt like your argument at all, it doesnt really say much regarding AI's impact as a player, some of your subjective facts are wrong, like the McDyess not wanting to resign even though when Denver waived him he went back to Detroit. Him and Sheed only wanted out once they realized how pitiful the team was going to be without Billups.

Chronz
09-09-2009, 07:21 PM
Iverson deserve that MVP!
About 5 players deserved it more than him that year

lorenz00
09-09-2009, 07:23 PM
I'd take Iverson over Jose and Hedo in a heartbeat

lol all i was saying we dont need him i wasnt saying jose and hedo was better :facepalm:

SteveNash
09-09-2009, 07:32 PM
Lastly, for all the talk of Iverson being a "loser" lets talk about his career....so not individual achievements, but his teams:

He wanted to play for a championship, but was unwilling to sacrifice his stats or his starting role to try and help the team. Detroit wasn't going to win a championship last year, but if he would have been a good team player he wouldn't be considered a pariah in the NBA right now.

His attitude alone is the definition of loser.

PLAYERS FAN
09-09-2009, 07:56 PM
About 5 players deserved it more than him that year

Who? and please don't say Shaq because he had Kobe who average 28.5 pts that same year.

Chronz
09-09-2009, 08:08 PM
Who? and please don't say Shaq because he had Kobe who average 28.5 pts that same year.

Both of them deserved it more. Yes they had eachother, its also why they were a better team. You would have a great point if they had eachother and the Sixers were a better squad but facts are both players were playing at a higher level and both were winning more. Its pretty easy to call

But if you dont want to count them then

Duncan, C-Webb, KG

Tmac was a better player at the time, but his team was crap and he wasnt at the peak of his performance to get him in the top 4 like he would later despite his teams crappiness.

levignjw
09-09-2009, 08:10 PM
lol all i was saying we dont need him i wasnt saying jose and hedo was better :facepalm:

At this point in Iverson's career, I'd take Hedo over him all day.

JayW_1023
09-10-2009, 05:46 AM
Don't kid yourself. Iverson had an ideal situation to win a title with an established core that already had won one title. The fact that Detroit became an eighth seed after years of consecutive conference finals appearances proves he doesn't make his team better. He had a great chance to prove everyone he was a team player and he flat out blew it.

In Memphis, I doubt he'll last much longer when the team staff ultimately decides it's time for AI to come off the bench.

ccrider9
09-10-2009, 06:42 AM
Don't kid yourself. Iverson had an ideal situation to win a title with an established core that already had won one title. The fact that Detroit became an eighth seed after years of consecutive conference finals appearances proves he doesn't make his team better. He had a great chance to prove everyone he was a team player and he flat out blew it.

In Memphis, I doubt he'll last much longer when the team staff ultimately decides it's time for AI to come off the bench.

And I guess that DUMB COACH had nothing to do with what happen and all of the other players who also quit or was complaning. What about Rip, he didn't want to take a back seat to AI or anyone else for that matter. Just think about your jobs and ask yourself how would you feel if that happen to you!!!!!!

LakersIn5
09-10-2009, 07:57 AM
I use to respect A.I. until what he did in Detroit! Going to the Memphis tells me(IMO) he's trying to get Mike Conley spot. Just look at Paul Pierce who sacrifice his scoring for a championship. I don't think Iverson will never sacrifice his scoring.:(

as if he had a choice

GCOOKIE7
09-10-2009, 08:37 AM
How many times did he win the ROY award.

BkOriginalOne
09-10-2009, 09:30 AM
Allen Iverson will be an all star next season - that's a garuntee.
I like the fact that he gets incentives for the team's success - for their wins and a huge one if they make the playoffs.

Memphis went 24-58 last season.
Allen Has to be seen as sucessfull if he can make them a 500 club and get them at least challenging for a playoff spot.

I think that this is a good chance for AI to prove that he can still have a winning effect on a team. And, unlike last season, AI will be with his new team all through training camp, so we can watch this team grow into a scoring giant that's it's going to be.

It won't be all bad, Memphis poor D will allow Thabeet to challenge Howard for leading the league in Blocks.

Ironman5219
09-10-2009, 06:52 PM
AI can't win it by himself that is his down fall, yes he scores a lot because he shoots a lot. He finnally got a compliment scorer in Anthony, but even two ball hogs that don't play defense couldn't get past the first round in the playoffs. Even other ball hogs like Kobe and MJ had to play Defense and have great supporting casts to win the titles. AI gets trashed on #1 he's not a good person #2 he's a terrible teammate, #3 he's a ball hog that never passes the ball when he should. And just a bonus, going to the foul line 50+ times for flopping isn't talent. The dudes a thug, Griz aren't going to win more than 15 games with him. 20 Without him