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View Full Version : Shaq, Artest, Carter, Jefferson, Rasheed numbers next season



JordansBulls
09-08-2009, 12:14 AM
What numbers will each of these new additions (haq, Artest, Carter, Jefferson, Rasheed to the top 5 contenders put up next season?

lorenz00
09-08-2009, 12:17 AM
shaq 15 . 10. artest 18points 4reb 1.5 steals, jefferson 18.4 reb 3. rasheed points11 ,6 reb..

Shady66
09-08-2009, 12:22 AM
Shaq: 15 and 7 (Lebron just isnt as good as a playmaker as nash is )

Artest: 14 4 and 4

Carter: 19 5 and 5

Jefferson: 16 ppg

Sheed: 13 and 8 a game

ManRam
09-08-2009, 12:25 AM
Shaq: 18 points, 8 boards, 1.3 blocks, 60% FG
Artest: 15 points, 5 boards, 3 assists, 40% FG
Carter: 19 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 44% FG
Wallace: 10 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 43% FG
Jefferson: 17 points, 5 boards, 2.5 assists, 45% FG

blazerman
09-08-2009, 12:31 AM
I would assume all of them will average less because there all on better teams, Shaq will make sure he gets his though so Mo Williams stats will probably suffer on Cavs instead of Oneil's.

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 12:33 AM
Vince Carter: better PER than Kobe

jmastert
09-08-2009, 12:36 AM
i personally think carter will have an amazing year

ARMIN12NBA
09-08-2009, 12:42 AM
Vince Carter: better PER than Kobe

:laugh2:

Raph12
09-08-2009, 12:45 AM
What numbers will each of these new additions (haq, Artest, Carter, Jefferson, Rasheed to the top 5 contenders put up next season?

O'Neal: 14-6-1
Artest: 13-5-3
Carter: 18-5-5
Jefferson: 16-5-2
Wallace: 11-6-1
(Pts-Rebs-Asts)

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 12:51 AM
i personally think carter will have an amazing year

As do I.


:laugh2:

Wouldn't be the first time

ARMIN12NBA
09-08-2009, 12:55 AM
As do I.



Wouldn't be the first time

1. Yes it would. At least in Hollingers PER since the 2002-2003 season. Carter has never had a higher PER than Kobe.

2. I was laughing because of how random it is to bring up Kobe and at how unsurprising it is as Kobe is always brought up in every thread. It truly speaks to his greatness as it seems to be that he is the measuring stick.

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 01:00 AM
1. Yes it would. At least in Hollingers PER since the 2002-2003 season. Carter has never had a higher PER than Kobe.

2. I was laughing because of how random it is to bring up Kobe and at how unsurprising it is as Kobe is always brought up in every thread. It truly speaks to his greatness as it seems to be that he is the measuring stick.

Kobe is the best two guard, I think VC is going to put up a career year so Im gonna measure him against the best at his position. Though it won't be long before the best 2 guards will be benchmarked against Roy.

All 3 years 98-01 Carter had a better PER (in 04-05 he did as well once he moved to NJ), he hasn't been very motivated since but I believe the fire will be re-lit. Also, playing with Howard will help him a lot and he's gonna launch a lot of open 3's. I would guess he attempts 6 treys a game at a 40% success rate.

ARMIN12NBA
09-08-2009, 01:02 AM
Kobe is the best two guard, I think VC is going to put up a career year so Im gonna measure him against the best at his position. Though it won't be long before the best 2 guards will be benchmarked against Roy.

All 3 years 98-01 Carter had a better PER, he hasn't been very motivated since but I believe the fire will be re-lit. Also, playing with Howard will help him a lot and he's gonna launch a lot of open 3's. I would guess he attempts 6 treys a game at a 40% success rate.

1. Bryant was a bench player for two of those years so bringing up two of those years isn't very realistic. 2000-2001 is surprising to me, but...

2. Give me the site. I want to see it because ESPN only goes back to the 2003 season.

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 01:04 AM
1. Bryant was a bench player for two of those years so bringing up two of those years isn't very realistic. 2000-2001 is surprising to me, but...

2. Give me the site. I want to see it because ESPN only goes back to the 2003 season.

1. No he wasn't, Kobe started 180 of 184 games during that time frame.

2. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

ARMIN12NBA
09-08-2009, 01:08 AM
1. No he wasn't, Kobe started 180 of 184 games during that time frame.

2. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

1998-2001 was referring to 1998-1999, 1999-2000, and 2000-2001 I see. I thought you were counting 1997-1998.

Basically, Carter had Kobe for 3 years and Kobe has had him for the past 8...

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 01:15 AM
1998-2001 was referring to 1998-1999, 1999-2000, and 2000-2001 I see. I thought you were counting 1997-1998.

Basically, Carter had Kobe for 3 years and Kobe has had him for the past 8...

Correct.

I made my prediction because

A. Life is too short to make boring predictions
B. Carter has shown potential, it's unlikely he exceeds Kobe, but it's not impossible.
C. The Magic love to use Howard to setup threes and Carter can knock 3's. He has the most motivation since he first came into the league when he played his best.
D. I think Kobe's stats will be a bit lower as he will get rest since the Lakers are so stacked

Bleeds Blue
09-08-2009, 01:35 AM
shaq: 16.5 ppg 8 reb 1.5 blks 60 fg pct 50 ft pct 60 games played

artest: 13 ppg 5 reb 43 fg pct 33 3pt pct 65 games played

carter: 18 ppg 5 reb 4.5 ast 44 fg pct 37 3pt pct

jefferson: 15 ppg 4.5 reb 44 fg pct 38 3pt pct

rasheed: 11 ppg 6.5 reb 45 fg pct 37 3pt pct

Pornstar86
09-08-2009, 01:51 AM
Kobe is the best two guard, I think VC is going to put up a career year so Im gonna measure him against the best at his position. Though it won't be long before the best 2 guards will be benchmarked against Roy.

All 3 years 98-01 Carter had a better PER (in 04-05 he did as well once he moved to NJ), he hasn't been very motivated since but I believe the fire will be re-lit. Also, playing with Howard will help him a lot and he's gonna launch a lot of open 3's. I would guess he attempts 6 treys a game at a 40% success rate.

what about wade...as of right now, wade is the next best 2 guard

lakerssssssss
09-08-2009, 01:56 AM
Vince Carter: better PER than Kobe
we'll see about that

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 01:59 AM
what about wade...as of right now, wade is the next best 2 guard

I think Wade will have a higher PER than Carter because Wade will have to carry much more of a load than Kobe. But Roy will eclipse him as well shortly.

DreamShaker
09-08-2009, 02:05 AM
Shaq: 18 points, 8 boards, 1.3 blocks, 60% FG
Artest: 15 points, 5 boards, 3 assists, 40% FG
Carter: 19 points, 5 assists, 5 rebounds, 44% FG
Wallace: 10 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 43% FG
Jefferson: 17 points, 5 boards, 2.5 assists, 45% FG

Sounds about right...

Kobe4Life
09-08-2009, 02:12 AM
lol am I seeing things or people in here really comparing Vince Carter with Kobe on any level, LOL, haters keep on coming. We welcome you :clap:

2009-2010 NBA Champs - Lakers


Artest Season Avg- 17 points,6 rebounds , 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block- 46% FG

TheKing23
09-08-2009, 07:46 AM
Shaquille O'Neal: 17 ppg, 8 rpg, 2 apg, 1.3 bpg, 60 fg%
Ron Artest: 13 ppg, 4 rpg, 3 apg, 1.5 spg 43 fg%
Vince Carter: 18 ppg, 5 rpg, 4apg, 44 fg%
Richard Jefferson: 15 ppg, 4 rpg, 3 apg, 46 fg%
Rasheed Wallace: 10 ppg, 6 rpg, 1 apg, 1.3 bpg, 45 fg%

BkOriginalOne
09-08-2009, 10:14 AM
Shaq 16ppg 11rpg 2bpg
Artest 18ppg, 5rpg, 2apg, 2spg
Carter 22 5rpg, 5apg
Jefferson 18, 6rpg, 3apg
Sheed 14ppg,8rpg 1bpg

DitchDat
09-08-2009, 10:31 AM
Shaq: 15 and 7 (Lebron just isnt as good as a playmaker as nash is )

Artest: 14 4 and 4

Carter: 19 5 and 5

Jefferson: 16 ppg

Sheed: 13 and 8 a game

if he is that productive, #18 is a lock

I think you're pretty accurate about the other ones though.

DitchDat
09-08-2009, 10:32 AM
i will die if Shaq puts up Michael Beasley numbers (13 and 5)

JordansBulls
09-08-2009, 11:02 AM
Added a poll to see whose impact would be greater.

CELTICS4LYFE
09-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Added a poll to see whose impact would be greater.

jefferson....all the others were jus add ons or replacements

King P
09-08-2009, 11:43 AM
Vince Carter take the Magic over the hump this year. Also, Richard Jerfferson should have a good year.

King P
09-08-2009, 11:44 AM
LMAO @ Hedo not being mentioned. Turkoglu lost :p

macc
09-08-2009, 12:27 PM
lol am I seeing things or people in here really comparing Vince Carter with Kobe on any level, LOL, haters keep on coming. We welcome you :clap:

2009-2010 NBA Champs - Lakers


Artest Season Avg- 17 points,6 rebounds , 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block- 46% FG




I don't think that's far fetched. If you compare there per, it's very close, even their career percentages in every catagory are all very close. The biggest difference is Kobe had the most dominant player in Shaq to assist him in getting 3 rings. I'm sure if you replace Kobe with a D Wade, Carter, B Roy, T Mac LBJ type player, I'm guessing those Laker teams would still have those 3 championships.

Don't forget Kobe wanted a trade before the Lakers got Gasol. Lakers with only Kobe and Lamar and role players were barely a playoff team.

Could it be safe to say Kobe gets a little to much credit at times? My point is talent wise there isn't a huge gap between a Kobe, T-Mac (prime), Carter, Dwade, LBJ...ect. Just some were placed on better teams and made the best of their situation where others weren't so lucky.


Going back to the topic I don't think their "stats" really show the full impact of somone. I guess if you're a number fanatic that's all you look for but I break it down individually.

Shaq - Will be utilized to stop/slow down Howard. I don't see why else they would of picked him because because they were an excellent regular season team. The question is, can he defend a pick and roll?

Artest - Should be an upgrade over Ariza with his lock down defense and playmaking ability. Will he take away shots from Kobe when they count?

Carter - Magic needed a goto scorer desperately. Noone on their team last year was a guy you could give the ball to and clear out and say, score! Now they have that player.

Jefferson - I think was prob the most underated trade all off season. Jefferson is a team player and can make plays when need be. I think he'll fit in perfectly and be able to step up if somone gets injured.

Rasheed - Solidifies Bostons front court. Bench player though so not sure how much of an impact he'll have esp considering the strides Perkins had last year on both offense and defense.


Over all I think it's a tie between Carter and Jefferson, maybe Carter having a slight edge. Carter has the ability of putting Orlando over the hump and so does Jefferson. I think he made the Spurs a 2nd round playoff team to possible Champions. Esp under a great coach.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-08-2009, 03:04 PM
Shaq-17,8,1
Artest-15,5,2
Carter-18,5,4
Jefferson-18,5,2
Wallace-12,6,1

ko8e24
09-08-2009, 03:13 PM
Shaq: 29.7 PPG, 13.6 RPG, 3.8 APG, 1.1 SPG, 3.03 BPG :smoking:

MackSnackWrap
09-08-2009, 03:29 PM
Shaq- 16points 9 rebounds 1 assist
Jefferson- 16.5points 5 rebounds and 2 assists
Artest-14points 5 rebounds 4 assists
Carter-18.5 points 5 rebounds 4.5 assists
Wallace-13 points 7 rebounds 1 assist

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 03:37 PM
I don't think that's far fetched. If you compare there per, it's very close, even their career percentages in every catagory are all very close. The biggest difference is Kobe had the most dominant player in Shaq to assist him in getting 3 rings. I'm sure if you replace Kobe with a D Wade, Carter, B Roy, T Mac LBJ type player, I'm guessing those Laker teams would still have those 3 championships.

Don't forget Kobe wanted a trade before the Lakers got Gasol. Lakers with only Kobe and Lamar and role players were barely a playoff team.

Could it be safe to say Kobe gets a little to much credit at times? My point is talent wise there isn't a huge gap between a Kobe, T-Mac (prime), Carter, Dwade, LBJ...ect. Just some were placed on better teams and made the best of their situation where others weren't so lucky.


Going back to the topic I don't think their "stats" really show the full impact of somone. I guess if you're a number fanatic that's all you look for but I break it down individually.

Shaq - Will be utilized to stop/slow down Howard. I don't see why else they would of picked him because because they were an excellent regular season team. The question is, can he defend a pick and roll?

Artest - Should be an upgrade over Ariza with his lock down defense and playmaking ability. Will he take away shots from Kobe when they count?

Carter - Magic needed a goto scorer desperately. Noone on their team last year was a guy you could give the ball to and clear out and say, score! Now they have that player.

Jefferson - I think was prob the most underated trade all off season. Jefferson is a team player and can make plays when need be. I think he'll fit in perfectly and be able to step up if somone gets injured.

Rasheed - Solidifies Bostons front court. Bench player though so not sure how much of an impact he'll have esp considering the strides Perkins had last year on both offense and defense.


Over all I think it's a tie between Carter and Jefferson, maybe Carter having a slight edge. Carter has the ability of putting Orlando over the hump and so does Jefferson. I think he made the Spurs a 2nd round playoff team to possible Champions. Esp under a great coach.



did you get your breakfast today... it's the most important meal of the day :sigh:
anyways Ron 13pts 4rbs 3ast

iggypop123
09-08-2009, 03:38 PM
what about wade...as of right now, wade is the next best 2 guard

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 03:44 PM
did you get your breakfast today... it's the most important meal of the day :sigh:
anyways Ron 13pts 4rbs 3ast

He is correct, you are not. So maybe breakfast isn't that important?

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 03:51 PM
you gotta be kidding me carter leading this poll! :pity: get real! i have both jefferson, O'neil and Rasheed makeing a huge impacts for there teams! ik artest and carter are upgrades but the spurs celtics and cavs made impact moves! Jefferson should be winning this poll come on spurs fans step up!

macc
09-08-2009, 03:53 PM
did you get your breakfast today... it's the most important meal of the day :sigh:
anyways Ron 13pts 4rbs 3ast


Suprised it took this long for a Kobe homer to quote me.


Anyways. What did I say that was incorrect? At least do me for favor of putting some "thought" into your rebuttle when you quote me.
Did you forget about the years between 2004-2007?

2004-2005 Lakers were 34-48
05-06 - 45-37
06-07 42-40

All years with the Great Kobe Bryant! Once again he wanted to be traded before they got Gasol for nothing.

My original point was talent wise there isn't a huge difference between Kobe vs a Melo, Wade, Carter, LBJ, Roy, T - Mac. So please tell me how I'm wrong in saying that statement.

You put Wade with Shaq and in one year you got a Championship...hmmmmm

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 03:54 PM
He is correct, you are not. So maybe breakfast isn't that important?

is that what he told you? :love:

Mavrix
09-08-2009, 03:56 PM
Marion anyone?

macc
09-08-2009, 03:57 PM
you gotta be kidding me carter leading this poll! :pity: get real! i have both jefferson, O'neil and Rasheed makeing a huge impacts for there teams! ik artest and carter are upgrades but the spurs celtics and cavs made impact moves! Jefferson should be winning this poll come on spurs fans step up!


Ok, please explain why Rasheed is a bigger upgrade (coming off the bench) than Carter or Artest. Opinions are great but having "reasoning" behind the opinion makes it that much better. Savy

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 04:00 PM
is that what he told you? :love:

You are embarrassing yourself and even worse, your fellow Laker fans.

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:04 PM
Ok, please explain why Rasheed is a bigger upgrade (coming off the bench) than Carter or Artest. Opinions are great but having "reasoning" behind the opinion makes it that much better. Savy
why becuase he adds depth to the team and yes hes going to the bench but he gives c's that fire power off the bench that the teams in the nba dont have. carter is a starter/ a impact player and a upgread but if you look at the c's they added a 4 time allstar to the bench who still in his prime

but you also did not read the rest of my post i like jefferson and i picked him over carter

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:07 PM
You are embarrassing yourself and even worse, your fellow Laker fans.

oh snap

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 04:08 PM
Suprised it took this long for a Kobe homer to quote me.


Anyways. What did I say that was incorrect? At least do me for favor of putting some "thought" into your rebuttle when you quote me.
Did you forget about the years between 2004-2007?

2004-2005 Lakers were 34-48
05-06 - 45-37
06-07 42-40

All years with the Great Kobe Bryant! Once again he wanted to be traded before they got Gasol for nothing.

My original point was talent wise there isn't a huge difference between Kobe vs a Melo, Wade, Carter, LBJ, Roy, T - Mac. So please tell me how I'm wrong in saying that statement.

You put Wade with Shaq and in one year you got a Championship...hmmmmm

so I'm not on this site 24/7 big deal...

wow!! most of the stars want to win, and if that's not happening, hey they want to go elsewhere where they can win...look at paul pierce, he wanted to get traded away, garnett, and I bet way more players have thought of it..

Kobe is the most talented player in the NBA, but that's not what brings you championships! you got to have heart...something Vince doesn't have. T-MAC- lets see if he can stay healthy first. Melo? Doubt Roy could have won 3 rings with Shaq in the 2000's. LBJ and Wade all are great, but we will see how they do when they get another superstar on their team.

Mavrix
09-08-2009, 04:08 PM
why becuase he adds depth to the team and yes hes going to the bench but he gives c's that fire power off the bench that the teams in the nba dont have. carter is a starter/ a impact player and a upgread but if you look at the c's they added a 4 time allstar to the bench who still in his prime

but you also did not read the rest of my post i like jefferson and i picked him over carter

I know you didn't just say Rasheed Wallace is still in his prime.

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:10 PM
I know you didn't just say Rasheed Wallace is still in his prime.
ok i may be out of line there but hes still a hell of a player

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 04:11 PM
why becuase he adds depth to the team and yes hes going to the bench but he gives c's that fire power off the bench that the teams in the nba dont have. carter is a starter/ a impact player and a upgread but if you look at the c's they added a 4 time allstar to the bench who still in his prime

but you also did not read the rest of my post i like jefferson and i picked him over carter

Rasheed turns 35 in nine days, he's a good player to have off the bench and a nice fit for Boston, but he's past his prime.

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 04:13 PM
You are embarrassing yourself and even worse, your fellow Laker fans.

you know what? get back to the topic.. I'm here to talk basketball!

macc
09-08-2009, 04:13 PM
why becuase he adds depth to the team and yes hes going to the bench but he gives c's that fire power off the bench that the teams in the nba dont have. carter is a starter/ a impact player and a upgread but if you look at the c's they added a 4 time allstar to the bench who still in his prime

but you also did not read the rest of my post i like jefferson and i picked him over carter


First off Wallace isn't in his prime still. That's obvious.

Second you're telling me that a 4 time allstar coming off the bench behind a Kevin Garnett and a Solid starter in Perkins is more of an impact than an 8 time All star going to a team to be their "goto scorer" and clutch man. I'm sorry but theres nothing you can tell me that's going to make me think otherwise.

I like Boston and I like Wallace but this isn't even close. You're a Boston fan and I believe your homerism is affecting your judgement my friend. We'll just have to agree to disagree but theres a reason Carter has more votes than Wallace. Savy

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 04:13 PM
so I'm not on this site 24/7 big deal...

wow!! most of the stars want to win, and if that's not happening, hey they want to go elsewhere where they can win...look at paul pierce, he wanted to get traded away, garnett, and I bet way more players have thought of it..

Kobe is the most talented player in the NBA, but that's not what brings you championships! you got to have heart...something Vince doesn't have. T-MAC- lets see if he can stay healthy first. Melo? Doubt Roy could have won 3 rings with Shaq in the 2000's. LBJ and Wade all are great, but we will see how they do when they get another superstar on their team.

Wade already won a title with Shaq and he was the MVP of Finals not Shaq.

Wouldn't be surprised if LeBron does the same this season.

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:15 PM
Rasheed turns 35 in nine days, he's a good player to have off the bench and a nice fit for Boston, but he's past his prime.
ok i agree with that

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:20 PM
First off Wallace isn't in his prime still. That's obvious.

Second you're telling me that a 4 time allstar coming off the bench behind a Kevin Garnett and a Solid starter in Perkins is more of an impact than an 8 time All star going to a team to be their "goto scorer" and clutch man. I'm sorry but theres nothing you can tell me that's going to make me think otherwise.

I like Boston and I like Wallace but this isn't even close. You're a Boston fan and I believe your homerism is affecting your judgement my friend. We'll just have to agree to disagree but theres a reason Carter has more votes than Wallace. Savy

man your not getting it i pick jefferson over carter but i do argee what you say about sheed and we will have to agree to disagree

*Superman*
09-08-2009, 04:22 PM
Rasheed in his prime?

Shows how much you know.:facepalm:

macc
09-08-2009, 04:22 PM
so I'm not on this site 24/7 big deal...

wow!! most of the stars want to win, and if that's not happening, hey they want to go elsewhere where they can win...look at paul pierce, he wanted to get traded away, garnett, and I bet way more players have thought of it..

Kobe is the most talented player in the NBA, but that's not what brings you championships! you got to have heart...something Vince doesn't have. T-MAC- lets see if he can stay healthy first. Melo? Doubt Roy could have won 3 rings with Shaq in the 2000's. LBJ and Wade all are great, but we will see how they do when they get another superstar on their team.


I'm not gonna disagree that Kobe is the most talented in the league. Do you have to be the most talented in the league to win a championship? How can you say somone has no heart? Do you like talk to these guys on a daily or somthing? What are you basing it off? I'm sure if Carter had a Shaq on the team to take on double and tripple teams he would have a couple rings himself. How can you not say that's extrememly possible? Wade played with Shaq for 1 1/2 years and got a ring and he isn't even in his prime yet.


But if you're consistant can you say that Kobe had no heart when the Lakers weren't making the playoffs or losing in the 1st/2nd round?

So going back once again to my original statement. There isn't a huge difference in talent between the players I mentioned. Its not called having heart, it's called having a monster who can score at will and demand triple teams which is called Shaq.

Mavrix
09-08-2009, 04:24 PM
Marquis Daniels might even make a bigger impact then Rasheed

macc
09-08-2009, 04:24 PM
edit

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 04:25 PM
Wade already won a title with Shaq and he was the MVP of Finals not Shaq.

Wouldn't be surprised if LeBron does the same this season.

so I guess 1 title < 3 titles...
so aging Heat Shaq wasn't as daminant 20pts 9rbs 2blk as the Lakers 3 peat times:
2000 -30pts 14rbs 3blk
2001 -29pts 13rbs 3blk
2002 -27pts 11rbs 2blk

macc
09-08-2009, 04:28 PM
man your not getting it i pick jefferson over carter but i do argee what you say about sheed and we will have to agree to disagree


Ok Jefferson has a better argument than Rasheed. It came down to both of those players for me and either can be at the 1 or 2 spots so we pretty much agree there.

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 04:32 PM
so I guess 1 title < 3 titles...
so aging Heat Shaq wasn't as daminant 20pts 9rbs 2blk as the Lakers 3 peat times:
2000 -30pts 14rbs 3blk
2001 -29pts 13rbs 3blk
2002 -27pts 11rbs 2blk

You are not getting it. If Wade could win with a banged Shaq past his prime, he would have won 3 if he was swapped for Kobe.

tdkjr6
09-08-2009, 04:34 PM
Shaq: 15 and 7 (Lebron just isnt as good as a playmaker as nash is )


but lebron draws more attention with his ability as a great passer!

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 04:35 PM
I'm not gonna disagree that Kobe is the most talented in the league. Do you have to be the most talented in the league to win a championship? How can you say somone has no heart? Do you like talk to these guys on a daily or somthing? What are you basing it off? I'm sure if Carter had a Shaq on the team to take on double and tripple teams he would have a couple rings himself. How can you not say that's extrememly possible? Wade played with Shaq for 1 1/2 years and got a ring and he isn't even in his prime yet.


But if you're consistant can you say that Kobe had no heart when the Lakers weren't making the playoffs or losing in the 1st/2nd round?

So going back once again to my original statement. There isn't a huge difference in talent between the players I mentioned. Its not called having heart, it's called having a monster who can score at will and demand triple teams which is called Shaq.

Carter has Howard now, similar to a Shaq kind of player, let's see how many rings he gets then..

Kobe wasn't in his prime either..

so what he did against the suns = no heart. Kobe took the suns to 7 games with Kwame and Smush against Nash, Stoudemire, Marion. he worked his ***** off.

Kobe won with Pau and I believe people here called him "soft"

Antbanks21
09-08-2009, 04:41 PM
You are not getting it. If Wade could win with a banged Shaq past his prime, he would have won 3 if he was swapped for Kobe.

really? and I bet if Kobe was swapped with Wade in 2006 Kobe would have won the Finals MVP...
hey Kobe won 3 rings with shaq... don't try and take anything away from him... all this if wade would have had shaq in his prime, he would win too, all that is crap! he didn't so just move on..

bigsams50
09-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Carter has Howard now, similar to a Shaq kind of player, let's see how many rings he gets then..

Kobe wasn't in his prime either..

so what he did against the suns = no heart. Kobe took the suns to 7 games with Kwame and Smush against Nash, Stoudemire, Marion. he worked his ***** off.

Kobe won with Pau and I believe people here called him "soft"

howard isnt even close to how dominant shaq wash when he three peated

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:45 PM
Rasheed in his prime?

Shows how much you know.:facepalm:

dude stay out of this

TheMicrowave
09-08-2009, 04:46 PM
What numbers will each of these new additions (haq, Artest, Carter, Jefferson, Rasheed to the top 5 contenders put up next season?

Shaq - 14PTs 8Rebs
Artest - 15PTs 4RBs 4AST
Jefferson - 21PTs 4RBs
Rasheed - 10PTs 6RBs

I don't think much will change for most of these guys. Jefferson is probably in the best spot because of his team. I think his FG% will go up from last season to about 46-47%.

ChiSox219
09-08-2009, 04:48 PM
really? and I bet if Kobe was swapped with Wade in 2006 Kobe would have won the Finals MVP...
hey Kobe won 3 rings with shaq... don't try and take anything away from him... all this if wade would have had shaq in his prime, he would win too, all that is crap! he didn't so just move on..

I don't even know what to say to this.

CraigtheSoxFan
09-08-2009, 04:48 PM
Marquis Daniels might even make a bigger impact then Rasheed
that might be true

King P
09-08-2009, 04:49 PM
lol @ VC having no heart. Despite the fact that he stayed with the rebuilding Nets and didnt complain once, and played almost every game despite being injured.

In the 07-08 season, he pretty much played the whole season with a hurt ankle. The Nets organization recommended him to have his ankle surgically repaired and be sidelined for the rest of the season. But he didnt do that, he played out the rest of the season and had the surgery in the offseason. And despite the fact that he was injured all season, he still managed to have 21 ppg, 6 rpg, & 5 apg. He was only 1 of 3 players to do that (Lebron & Kobe). But yet this man says he has no heart. :facepalm:

I think you meant to say T-Mac has no heart, but you got the cousins confused.

koberulesall
09-08-2009, 05:01 PM
i dont think artest will be avg more than 13 or 14 ppg Vince Carter is a very talented player who alot of people have forgot about and I think could bring Orlando back to the Finals same goes for Sheed he could help get Boston back with a healthy KG but I think LA will repeat if they stay healthy and Ron doesnt attack any fans

Ebbs
09-08-2009, 05:18 PM
Carter 22 ppg 4 rpg 4 apg

shaq 16 ppg 9 rpg

Artest 11 ppg 5 rpg 4 apg

sheed 8 ppg 5 rpg

jefferson 16 ppg

And Shawn Marion 13 ppg 8 rpg 5 apg

stockchampion25
09-08-2009, 05:36 PM
Shaq: 15 and 7 (Lebron just isnt as good as a playmaker as nash is )

Artest: 14 4 and 4

Carter: 19 5 and 5

Jefferson: 16 ppg

Sheed: 13 and 8 a game

Did you seriously say LBJ isnt as good as a play maker as STEVE NASH?!?!?!:facepalm:

Brother, put down the pipe and step away from the crack.

Consider this an intervention. Just because LBJ can finish more and doesnt have to dish off to someone else to make the plays in the paint does not mean in ANY way, shape or form that he isnt the play maker Nash is!! Truth be told, Nash isnt THAT good.:speechless: I love the guy but did he deserve 2 MVP's? If he did then Mark Price deserves one also. Ok Ok I might be pushing it with that last line but you get my point.

I will agree with you on Shaqs output - 15 and 7 or 8 is where I see him.

Shady66
09-08-2009, 06:56 PM
Did you seriously say LBJ isnt as good as a play maker as STEVE NASH?!?!?!:facepalm:

Brother, put down the pipe and step away from the crack.

Consider this an intervention. Just because LBJ can finish more and doesnt have to dish off to someone else to make the plays in the paint does not mean in ANY way, shape or form that he isnt the play maker Nash is!! Truth be told, Nash isnt THAT good.:speechless: I love the guy but did he deserve 2 MVP's? If he did then Mark Price deserves one also. Ok Ok I might be pushing it with that last line but you get my point.

I will agree with you on Shaqs output - 15 and 7 or 8 is where I see him.

:facepalm:
Yes i smoke crack, thats why nash is a better playmaker than LBJ.u get more facepalms if u honestly think Lebron is a better playmaker than nash. Like even right now, its not even close.

And i dont thikn Nash deserved the 2nd MVP, but he did deserve the first one.

MrFastBreak
09-08-2009, 07:03 PM
Shaq: 15ppg, 8rpg, 1bpg, 60 FG%

Artest: 16ppg, 5rpg, 3apg, 1.5spg 42 FG%

Carter: 19ppg, 5rpg, 4.5apg 44 FG%

Jefferson: 17ppg, 4.5rpg, 3apg 43 FG%

Sheed: 11ppg, 7rpg, 2apg 45 FG%

iHop
09-08-2009, 07:08 PM
Carter has the biggest job to do out of the group up there.
Shaq - 15.3 ppg 10 rpg
Artest - 15.8 ppg 4 rpg 1 apg
Carter - 20.5 ppg 5rpg 5 apg
Jefferson - 13 ppg 4rpg
Rasheed - 7.9 ppg 5rpg

mrblisterdundee
09-08-2009, 07:23 PM
Richard Jefferson: 15 PPG, 4 RPG, 2 APG

Shaquille O'Neal: 16 PPG, 7 RPG, 3 APG

Ron Artest: 16 PPG, 5 RPG, 3 APG

Vince Carter: 18 PPG, 5 RPG, 5 APG

Rasheed Wallace: 10 PPG, 6 RPG, 1 APG

Vince Carter: He's probably the most talented player on this list, right at this moment. He's also got the biggest hole to fill, in Hedo Turkoglu. There's now a 'big four' in Orlando.

stockchampion25
09-08-2009, 11:20 PM
:facepalm:
Yes i smoke crack.

LOL:surrender: you win! I dont fight with crackheads!

And for all you VC guys out there. He is a choak artist. Sasha Pavolvic heald him to under 35% for an entire series, by himself!!

Career Playoff numbers for VC.
FG% .418 3pt% .332 FG% .780 Reb 6.9 Ast 5.2 Pts 25.9
Not bad but they are all down from season averages. And for a guy like Carter those number should be better. Pressure is something that the Carter/McGrady family cant handle. Orlando might regret this move as much as they regretted the McGrady move.

And FYI, Carter has yet to lead a team to the playoffs as "highlight" on a team since he was with Toranto(2000-2001). While with NJ he had Kidd and Jefferson to help carry him. Good news for Orlando, they have Lewis and Howard to help hide him...:clap:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-NBAChamps

ARMIN12NBA
09-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Correct.

I made my prediction because

A. Life is too short to make boring predictions
B. Carter has shown potential, it's unlikely he exceeds Kobe, but it's not impossible.
C. The Magic love to use Howard to setup threes and Carter can knock 3's. He has the most motivation since he first came into the league when he played his best.
D. I think Kobe's stats will be a bit lower as he will get rest since the Lakers are so stacked

Haha. That's a good enough reason right there.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-08-2009, 11:39 PM
If Nash can get an MVP for passing a ball, Calderon should receive 1 too.

King P
09-08-2009, 11:43 PM
LOL:surrender: you win! I dont fight with crackheads!

And for all you VC guys out there. He is a choak artist. Sasha Pavolvic heald him to under 35% for an entire series, by himself!!

Career Playoff numbers for VC.
FG% .418 3pt% .332 FG% .780 Reb 6.9 Ast 5.2 Pts 25.9
Not bad but they are all down from season averages. And for a guy like Carter those number should be better. Pressure is something that the Carter/McGrady family cant handle. Orlando might regret this move as much as they regretted the McGrady move.

And FYI, Carter has yet to lead a team to the playoffs as "highlight" on a team since he was with Toranto(2000-2001). While with NJ he had Kidd and Jefferson to help carry him. Good news for Orlando, they have Lewis and Howard to help hide him...:clap:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=OffseasonPredictions09-NBAChamps
wrong!!! Carter actually performed the best out of the trio.
In the 06 playoffs, VC averaged 30 ppg, RJ averaged 22. Kidd was on the downslope, but still played fairly well. What the Nets lacked was a good big man, and it showed when they played the Heat.

And those are all playoff numbers averages are great. You do realize that VC is 9th on the all time list for most ppg in the playoffs. Only active players ahead of him are AI, Lebron, & T-Mac.

Shady66
09-08-2009, 11:47 PM
If Nash can get an MVP for passing a ball, Calderon should receive 1 too.

I hope your joking Lol.

PLAYERS FAN
09-09-2009, 12:16 AM
It's funny when Kobe was playing with Shaq, the Tmac,Vince Carters and Iverson lovers saying Kobe only can do what he do on the court because of Shaq. They thought Kobe was going to be a penny hardaway type of player without Shaq. Now that he bypass these players to a point that they look ridiculous now. It's funny that Magic don't get that he won those title's because of Kareem which the facts show it is valid. Kareem won a title before Magic enter the league and three MVPs. Shaq before Kobe never won a title or a MVP award. But when it come's to Kobe rings it's because of Shaq but the fact is that Shaq was a donut before Kobe. It a reason Kobe is the most hated NBA player.

Lakersfan2483
09-09-2009, 12:22 AM
What numbers will each of these new additions (haq, Artest, Carter, Jefferson, Rasheed to the top 5 contenders put up next season?

Shaq: 16ppg, 7rpg, 1.5bpg

Artest: 13ppg, 5rpg, 2.4spg

V. Carter: 19.5ppg, 5rpg, 5apg

R. Jefferson: 15.6ppg, 6rpg

R. Wallace: 10ppg, 6rpg

Lakersfan2483
09-09-2009, 12:29 AM
I don't think that's far fetched. If you compare there per, it's very close, even their career percentages in every catagory are all very close. The biggest difference is Kobe had the most dominant player in Shaq to assist him in getting 3 rings. I'm sure if you replace Kobe with a D Wade, Carter, B Roy, T Mac LBJ type player, I'm guessing those Laker teams would still have those 3 championships.
Don't forget Kobe wanted a trade before the Lakers got Gasol. Lakers with only Kobe and Lamar and role players were barely a playoff team.

Could it be safe to say Kobe gets a little to much credit at times? My point is talent wise there isn't a huge gap between a Kobe, T-Mac (prime), Carter, Dwade, LBJ...ect. Just some were placed on better teams and made the best of their situation where others weren't so lucky.


Going back to the topic I don't think their "stats" really show the full impact of somone. I guess if you're a number fanatic that's all you look for but I break it down individually.

Shaq - Will be utilized to stop/slow down Howard. I don't see why else they would of picked him because because they were an excellent regular season team. The question is, can he defend a pick and roll?

Artest - Should be an upgrade over Ariza with his lock down defense and playmaking ability. Will he take away shots from Kobe when they count?

Carter - Magic needed a goto scorer desperately. Noone on their team last year was a guy you could give the ball to and clear out and say, score! Now they have that player.

Jefferson - I think was prob the most underated trade all off season. Jefferson is a team player and can make plays when need be. I think he'll fit in perfectly and be able to step up if somone gets injured.

Rasheed - Solidifies Bostons front court. Bench player though so not sure how much of an impact he'll have esp considering the strides Perkins had last year on both offense and defense.


Over all I think it's a tie between Carter and Jefferson, maybe Carter having a slight edge. Carter has the ability of putting Orlando over the hump and so does Jefferson. I think he made the Spurs a 2nd round playoff team to possible Champions. Esp under a great coach.


And if you replace Shaq with Tim Duncan or even KG, Kobe would have won 3 rings, so it works both ways. Duncan was far more durable than Oneal and he and Bryant would have easily won 3 or 4 titles, maybe more.

macc
09-09-2009, 01:04 AM
And if you replace Shaq with Tim Duncan or even KG, Kobe would have won 3 rings, so it works both ways. Duncan was far more durable than Oneal and he and Bryant would have easily won 3 or 4 titles, maybe more.



No I'm sorry I can't agree with that. Having a prime Shaq on the team is much much different than having Garnett or Duncan. Neither Garnett or Duncan were nearly as dominate as Shaq. Not even close.

Ovratd1up
09-09-2009, 01:09 AM
Shaq- 15 and 7, they will rest him for the playoffs

Artest- 14, 5, and 3, 2spg Top DPOY Candidate (after Howard)

Carter- 19, 5, and 5.5, less pressure on him, can really shine, more of a playmaker for his teamates

Jefferson- 17, 4, and 3, can relieve pressure off Big 3, step in for Ginobili

Sheed- 13 and 8. Will put up numbers in less minutes, will thrive with no pressure on him

ko8e24
09-09-2009, 01:43 AM
LMAO @ Hedo not being mentioned. Turkoglu lost :p

he's not on a championship caliber team. he just went to the team that didnt even make the playoffs

ron, shaq, sheed, vc and rj are all on championship caliber teams

ko8e24
09-09-2009, 01:44 AM
If Nash can get an MVP for passing a ball, Calderon should receive 1 too.

:facepalm: dumbest quote on PSD to date....I think

Mavrix
09-09-2009, 02:05 AM
he's not on a championship caliber team. he just went to the team that didnt even make the playoffs

ron, shaq, sheed, vc and rj are all on championship caliber teams

So is Marion?

Ace33Bone
09-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Shaq = 16 ppg & 12 rpg
Artest= 15 ppg & 7 rpg
Carter 20ppg
Jefferson 16.5 ppg
Sheed 13 ppg & 8 rpg

Ace33Bone
09-09-2009, 11:01 AM
I hope your joking Lol.

x2

stockchampion25
09-09-2009, 02:39 PM
wrong!!! Carter actually performed the best out of the trio.
In the 06 playoffs, VC averaged 30 ppg, RJ averaged 22. Kidd was on the downslope, but still played fairly well. What the Nets lacked was a good big man, and it showed when they played the Heat.

And those are all playoff numbers averages are great. You do realize that VC is 9th on the all time list for most ppg in the playoffs. Only active players ahead of him are AI, Lebron, & T-Mac.

Just because he has one good year in the playoffs doenst mean jack. Even a broken clock is right twice a day but that doesnt mean it works. But thanks for proving my point.:clap: That year you are talking about he shot .241% from 3pt land and had his best FG% for any year in the playoffs. The point being that he actually used his athletical skills to drive to the hoop instead of being lazy and jacking up 3's like he has done ever other year since then. For a guy like Vince to be lazy and shoot 3's is a bad sign. Im glad you found the one year that he wanted to drive and make someone guard him.

Did you say Kidd was on the "downslope"? Because he average 14 pts 10.9 rebs and 10.9 ast the very next year in the playoffs. Thats one heck of a downslope!!

And WOW 9th on the alltime list...How many rings has that won him? "0"

Im sure you had a point in there somewhere but I cant find it and apparently neither can you.:speechless:

King P
09-09-2009, 03:11 PM
Just because he has one good year in the playoffs doenst mean jack. Even a broken clock is right twice a day but that doesnt mean it works. But thanks for proving my point.:clap: That year you are talking about he shot .241% from 3pt land and had his best FG% for any year in the playoffs. The point being that he actually used his athletical skills to drive to the hoop instead of being lazy and jacking up 3's like he has done ever other year since then. For a guy like Vince to be lazy and shoot 3's is a bad sign. Im glad you found the one year that he wanted to drive and make someone guard him.

Did you say Kidd was on the "downslope"? Because he average 14 pts 10.9 rebs and 10.9 ast the very next year in the playoffs. Thats one heck of a downslope!!

And WOW 9th on the alltime list...How many rings has that won him? "0"

Im sure you had a point in there somewhere but I cant find it and apparently neither can you.:speechless:

yes Kidd was on the downslope. I have been a Nets fan for over 10 years, so I can tell you that Kidd was not the same. '01 Kidd >>>>>>> '05 Kidd.
Put VC on the 01 Nets team, and they go all the way.

He hasnt won any because he never had the championship calibur team to take him there. He has averaged 20 ppg every year he has been in the playoffs, and has always been the go to guy. I do not think he is a choker at all.

smith&wesson
09-09-2009, 04:34 PM
I think this is easy lets look at it like this.

carter will start BUT his team is stacked and wont be expected to have the biggest role on the team. he has dwight howard, reshard lewis, nelson, pietrus... that team is stacked. carter will do well but wont be the guy who is expected to carry his team.

artest is in the same boat, he has tons of talent around him and wont be expected to carry his team the way he was in houston or sacremento he has kobe, gasol, and odem as running mates, he will do well but isnt expected to carry his team.

jeffreson same deal, he has duncan, parker, and ginobly he will also do well but is just playing a role on an already good team.

wallace has even less expectations of him coming off the bench. with an already stacked team with peirce, garnet, allen, and rondo, his role with be
6th man.

That leaves shaq. Shaq has the most expectations on him. he comes to the cavs with the expectation of being the #2 guy night in night out. He also is beleived by cavs management to be the piece that puts the cavs in contention. I think if shaq can play like he did last year then he will have the biggest impact to his team. that doesnt mean he will average more points then carter or artest or RJ but he will contribute to his team the most and will be playing the most important role on his team.

stockchampion25
09-09-2009, 05:18 PM
yes Kidd was on the downslope. I have been a Nets fan for over 10 years, so I can tell you that Kidd was not the same. '01 Kidd >>>>>>> '05 Kidd.
Put VC on the 01 Nets team, and they go all the way.

He hasnt won any because he never had the championship calibur team to take him there. He has averaged 20 ppg every year he has been in the playoffs, and has always been the go to guy. I do not think he is a choker at all.

Again he in not a winner. He is a termendous athlete and a great shooter but has yet to put it all together for more than a seaon. Hes to old to start now.


J.E.T.S., Jets, Jets, Jets
Just
End
The
Season

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

rabzouz 96
09-09-2009, 08:15 PM
Again he in not a winner. He is a termendous athlete and a great shooter but has yet to put it all together for more than a seaon. Hes to old to start now.


J.E.T.S., Jets, Jets, Jets
Just
End
The
Season

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA JETS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
how funny HAHAHAHA

































:cricket:

rabzouz 96
09-09-2009, 08:18 PM
i think the predictions for sheed are way too high, i dont think he will average much this season, hes a bit washed up and behind kg and perkins i thin hell average around 6-8 points and 4 rebounds.

rabzouz 96
09-09-2009, 08:25 PM
you know what? get back to the topic.. I'm here to talk basketball!

how unfortunate that you dont know anything about it.

King P
09-09-2009, 11:02 PM
Again he in not a winner. He is a termendous athlete and a great shooter but has yet to put it all together for more than a seaon. Hes to old to start now.

too old?
Ray Allen just won a championship last year and he is older than VC. Not to mention that KG & Pierce are pretty much the same age as Carter. It's never to late to put it all together and win it all.

And now he finally has the chance to do it, because this is the 1st time that he truly has a real shot at winning a championship.

d-baller23
09-10-2009, 11:54 PM
Carter will have the biggest factor out of all the newcomers

JordansBulls
09-11-2009, 12:16 AM
Carter will have the biggest factor out of all the newcomers

He or Shaq as they are 2nd options.

1WorthyLakerFan
09-11-2009, 02:07 AM
Vince Carter: better PER than Kobe

If PSD every gives an award for stupidity, then you get my vote.:laugh:

1WorthyLakerFan
09-11-2009, 02:24 AM
too old?
Ray Allen just won a championship last year and he is older than VC. Not to mention that KG & Pierce are pretty much the same age as Carter. It's never to late to put it all together and win it all.

And now he finally has the chance to do it, because this is the 1st time that he truly has a real shot at winning a championship.

I am thinking that Ray Allan was a shooter, and shooters skills generally don't decline with age. Conversely, VC is a slasher and dunker, a skillset that greatly deteriorates with age. Don't be dissapointed if he doesn't live up to the hype that you guys are giving him...it really isn't his fault that you are expecting something that is not based on reality.

Statik1
09-11-2009, 02:34 AM
Vince Carter: better PER than Kobe

Puff puff pass :facepalm:

Antbanks21
09-11-2009, 02:46 AM
i think the predictions for sheed are way too high, i dont think he will average much this season, hes a bit washed up and behind kg and perkins i thin hell average around 6-8 points and 4 rebounds.

shows how much you know... :facepalm:

King P
09-11-2009, 10:47 AM
I am thinking that Ray Allan was a shooter, and shooters skills generally don't decline with age. Conversely, VC is a slasher and dunker, a skillset that greatly deteriorates with age. Don't be dissapointed if he doesn't live up to the hype that you guys are giving him...it really isn't his fault that you are expecting something that is not based on reality.
but you are acting like VC can't shoot. VC can outshoot with the best of him. He can basically be reduced to a shooter and still be effective.

JordansBulls
09-17-2009, 10:46 PM
but you are acting like VC can't shoot. VC can outshoot with the best of him. He can basically be reduced to a shooter and still be effective.

Vince shoots 38% for his career from 3 point range.

King P
09-18-2009, 10:13 AM
Vince shoots 38% for his career from 3 point range.
which is good, considering that the 2 players with the most 3 pointers ever (Reggie Miller & Ray Allen) both shoot 39% from behind the arc.

JordansBulls
09-18-2009, 02:05 PM
which is good, considering that the 2 players with the most 3 pointers ever (Reggie Miller & Ray Allen) both shoot 39% from behind the arc.

I know that is what I am saying. 38% for a wing player from 3 point range is great.

rabzouz 96
11-28-2009, 03:47 AM
i think the predictions for sheed are way too high, i dont think he will average much this season, hes a bit washed up and behind kg and perkins i thin hell average around 6-8 points and 4 rebounds.


shows how much you know... :facepalm:

sheed averaging 8.8 points and 4.1 rebounds.
seems like i really know nothing...

ko8e24
11-28-2009, 03:37 PM
sheed averaging 8.8 points and 4.1 rebounds.
seems like i really know nothing...

haha nice

Raps18-19 Champ
11-28-2009, 03:58 PM
I think Shaq finishes the season 14 and 8.

Ray_R
11-28-2009, 04:00 PM
i thought the poll would be closer

ManRam
11-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Vince Carter: better PER than Kobe

Epic fail. I actually thought Vince would obviously be better than he has been. His FG% is worse than ever, and his assist total is laughable. He's a volume shooter now... something PER doesn't heavily reward all the time.

I will say that I think all 5 of these players have had FAR less of an impact than any of us expected. Shaq hasn't done much. Vince hasn't been amazing himself. Ron-Ron is struggling a bit. Jefferson has been pretty good, but you hear nothing about him. Sheed is doing a nice job off the bench...but hasn't really made a huge difference.

Deezy Dee 24.
11-28-2009, 04:10 PM
Marc Gasol
20 and 15
10-11 All Star