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View Full Version : Biggest weakness next season



nithanyo
09-02-2009, 09:38 PM
What do you guys believe is our biggest weakness going into 2010?

MLBJB
09-02-2009, 09:40 PM
The same thing it is every year, OFFENSE!

marcre
09-02-2009, 09:45 PM
There's so many, it's hard to choose.

FlakeyFool
09-02-2009, 09:54 PM
the whole team is our weakness really

but mostly our GM

Zaunnie
09-02-2009, 10:14 PM
JP Ricciardi

nithanyo
09-02-2009, 10:24 PM
Ok i should have reworded this thread. Who is our biggest weakness next to our GM

Jamiecballer
09-02-2009, 10:36 PM
A five tool outfielder, perhaps with all star games under his belt

nithanyo
09-02-2009, 10:56 PM
A five tool outfielder, perhaps with all star games under his belt

wasnt that what Vernon and Rios supposed to be :eyebrow:

scottythegreat1
09-02-2009, 11:43 PM
someone that can bat cleanup. If it involves trading this bat for Doc, Id be happy. If it were someone that can bring in 120 RBIs, thats good for me, Id take a salary dump (no more than 18 million a year), and if it means we trade Overbay so this bat can play first base, so be it.

wamco
09-03-2009, 08:34 AM
power covers up other weaknesses pretty well.

nithanyo
09-03-2009, 09:35 AM
someone that can bat cleanup. If it involves trading this bat for Doc, Id be happy. If it were someone that can bring in 120 RBIs, thats good for me, Id take a salary dump (no more than 18 million a year), and if it means we trade Overbay so this bat can play first base, so be it.

Whats the point of having a powerbat if your gonna trade your ace and have no pitching

malcolmclark
09-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Offense is the major problem. Your ace can only win ball games if the team is able to give him run support. I am not saying trade Doc, but we need a intimading #4 hitter that will make everyone around him better.

CaptainBolduke
09-03-2009, 10:16 AM
A five tool outfielder, perhaps with all star games under his belt

To bad Rios and Wells have turned out to be fakes.

dman_39
09-03-2009, 10:17 AM
another starting pitcher, a 3rd baseman, a shortstop and catcher (if Rod and Scutaro go) a dh and maybe a 1st baseman. that is alot and too much to do in 1 year.

CaptainBolduke
09-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Offense is the major problem. Your ace can only win ball games if the team is able to give him run support. I am not saying trade Doc, but we need a intimading #4 hitter that will make everyone around him better.

If Lind hits .310 with 35plus homeruns, 50plus doubles and drives in 110plus does that make him intimading ?

jaysfan55
09-03-2009, 10:22 AM
The biggest weakness is going to be at 3B.... EE cant do the job unless he figures out his swing and timing. Unfortunatley I dont think the Front office is going to give the GM any more money to spend this year so what we have is what we have. Unless they give us an additional 10-15 Mill to spend we are stuck with a very in-consistant 3B.... Hopefully the OF steps up next year and can produce better. I would like to see this out of our OF:

Lind- LF .305 35Hr 115 RBI
Wells- CF .275 20Hr 85 RBI 25 SB(better than this year)
Snider- RF .280 25Hr 85-90RBI (might be asking alot)

jaysfan55
09-03-2009, 10:29 AM
I dont see why we cant compete in 2010 if some players stay consistant from there numbers in 2009...

Hill- .288 33HR 105RBI
Scutaro- .275 14HR 70RBI
Lind-.305 35HR 115RBI
Wells- .275 20HR 85RBI (big Improvement over 2009)
Snider- .280 25HR 80 RBI (Maybe a big prediction)
Overbay- .275 15HR 65RBI
Encarnacion- .240 16HR 55RBI (long shoit but ok prediction)
Barajas- .270 15HR 70RBI (similar to 2009)
Ruiz- .270 25HR 80RBI (I think he can do it)

That would give us 5+ guys that can hit 20+ Hr's 2 that can hit 30+ and the rest would be over 10... I think if the pitching can stay healthy we can compete in 2010

CaptainBolduke
09-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Considering those lineups are basically the status quo and keeping in mind the players and teams we compete with we clearly still have a 4th place team.

dman_39
09-03-2009, 12:11 PM
jaysfans55 - i love you optimism but there is alot of ifs in there.

wamco
09-03-2009, 12:31 PM
Whats the point of having a powerbat if your gonna trade your ace and have no pitching

because 80 percent of the games are pitched by 4 other starters and the bullpen.

wamco
09-03-2009, 12:38 PM
If they are going to make a priority to get ONE player in free agency, I think it has to be figgins. He gives us legitimate top of the order speedy/on base ability and covers 3b allowing EE to DH where he belongs.

How much will he command now, coming off a big year is the question, 7m?

And will it be a moot point if the angels are going to sign him back anyways. I mean given equal money, do you play in sunny california where you have your whole career on a solid franchise, or do you come to Toronto who appears to be trying to trade away their best player.

I'm not too familiar with Angel's prospects, but I know they aren't sold on brandon wood being the answer at 3b. He doesn't even get at bats when they do call him up.

I'm thinking they sign figgins and lackey, but maybe kazmir replaces lackey.

dman_39
09-03-2009, 01:59 PM
I like the idea of Figgins for sure, keep Scutaro and Barajas, dump Overbay, sign Carlos to play first/dh.

wamco
09-03-2009, 02:57 PM
Keep overbay, for his 7 M and the scrap heap bat that can play 1b and hit LHP, that would be far from our biggest problem next year, a 850 ops 1bman. That would rank about 15th this year, so right in the middle of the pack.

wamco
09-03-2009, 03:17 PM
Cito giving 130 ab to bautista vs rhp made no sense (550 ops). He didn't hit as good vs lhp as last year, 782ops about 100 pts lower than last season.

dman_39
09-03-2009, 04:01 PM
Still not sold on Overbay, we need more production from first. I love his glove and he has been better the last month or so but need more from him.
I guess he played Bautista because of the lack of depth. I mean that bench of Millar, Bautista, etc really stinks.

wamco
09-03-2009, 04:29 PM
bautista doesn't stink vs LHP, he does vs RHP. That's the thing. Maybe we shouldn't have been the only team last year NOT to sign a player to a mlb contract (as a free agent). Could have accounted for crappy depth.

Overbay has like a 933 or so OPS vs RHP this season, what's not to like? 863 overall puts him right in the middle of the pack of 1bman. And he plays excellent D. And he is already on the roster. Is it worth scrambling to find a team to trade him to, and then going out and finding another 1bman as there is only 1 year left on overbay's contract I think

nithanyo
09-03-2009, 04:45 PM
because 80 percent of the games are pitched by 4 other starters and the bullpen.

Well why would you trade away your best player when you should be trying to build around it. Why would you want a rotation full of mediocre nobodies? And how can you compete with that???

T.O. Fan
09-03-2009, 06:17 PM
Let's see, the Jays biggest weakness next year is......too many holes:

Catcher
SS
3B
Bullpen
Starter

Not to mention speed and power......

wamco
09-03-2009, 07:19 PM
if 4/5 of your rotation are mediocre nobodies, you won't compete either.

H-MYK
09-03-2009, 07:55 PM
We need a power bat.

dtmagnet
09-03-2009, 08:06 PM
We need to take Jason Bay from the Red Sox, it makes us better and makes them worse. Simple logic right?

FlakeyFool
09-03-2009, 09:14 PM
We need to take Jason Bay from the Red Sox, it makes us better and makes them worse. Simple logic right?

no the simple logic is that hes canadian, so he must want to play for a canadian team!

marcre
09-03-2009, 09:29 PM
Why would he want to leave a great situation? I love the Jays, they're my team. But, if I was a player I'm not so sure they'd be on my list of teams to play for. Put aside the fact that the Jays won't be able to pay him what he's looking for, I wouldn't want to play at an empty stadium all the time.

dman_39
09-04-2009, 09:15 AM
Good point Wamco on Overbay; maybe keeping him is a good idea, then if he stinks it up they could trade for someone else mid-year in 2010 (if they are in it to some degree). Do you think they will try this kid Sanchez at short as well? or sign Scutaro?

jaysfan55
09-04-2009, 09:44 AM
jaysfans55 - i love you optimism but there is alot of ifs in there.

I always try to remain optomistic. Because we really dont know whats going to happen in 2010. Alot of my ifs can actually be a reality if most of the guys stay consistant compared to 2009..Wells Needs to step it up in 2010 and he knows it. Snider needs to find the right swing and role with it or he can count on coming off the bench next year. LEts ask these questions:

1. What if ownership says we will get you an extra 10-15 Million on top of the 14 million we already have to spend???

2. What if they fire JP and the new GM decides to clean house??

Those are the 2 biggest moves they need to make right now...Deciding where the budget will be and what to do with JP..... If we have a shot at 20-25 Million to spend then they should use to its full extent and get some good players..there are many options available that could easily turn this team around....

dman_39
09-04-2009, 10:51 AM
I love optimism but I am concerned about next year.

I think some of the ifs will work out but some won't just like every year.

Look at the iffy players

Overbay - does he get back to where he was?
Wells - does he get back to where he was?
Halladay - does he stay? and if so will he be healthy all year?
3B - who goes there?
SS- who goes there?
Catcher - who goes there?
Dh - who goes there?
Bullpen - does it shore up?
Starting pitching (behind Roy) - who are they? and will they be healthy?
Ownership - are they really going to invest this year? (I doubt it)

nithanyo
09-04-2009, 05:54 PM
I love optimism but I am concerned about next year.

I think some of the ifs will work out but some won't just like every year.

Look at the iffy players

Overbay - does he get back to where he was?
Wells - does he get back to where he was?
Halladay - does he stay? and if so will he be healthy all year?
3B - who goes there?
SS- who goes there?
Catcher - who goes there?
Dh - who goes there?
Bullpen - does it shore up?
Starting pitching (behind Roy) - who are they? and will they be healthy?
Ownership - are they really going to invest this year? (I doubt it)

I was pretty optimistic for next season but I just realized all the holes we have. I say we trade away all of our assets and try for 2019.

wamco
09-04-2009, 08:08 PM
1. What if ownership says we will get you an extra 10-15 Million on top of the 14 million we already have to spend???


How are you sure there is 14M to spend?

marcre
09-04-2009, 08:13 PM
1. What if ownership says we will get you an extra 10-15 Million on top of the 14 million we already have to spend???

That won't happen, mostly because there isn't 14 million to spend. This team is waiting for Ryan's contract to come off the books as well as some other players that are done after next year. I don't see them spending after that either though. First thing this team needs to do is figure out what direction they are going to go. Then we'll have a better idea what is going on. Right now, it's all speculation.

To me though, common sense says they are not adding payroll, they are looking to lower it.

wamco
09-04-2009, 11:01 PM
biggest weakness is too low of a payroll to compete in this division on a consistent basis, bottom line.

1hardcore
09-05-2009, 02:30 PM
1 slugger a reliever and just stay healthy next year...

thejazlive
09-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Ok i should have reworded this thread. Who is our biggest weakness next to our GM

I definitely agree with JP is week an he should go but regards to the team the pitching should be alright pending if they trade Halladay over the offseason but the Jays really do need a bat or 2

blujaysrock
09-05-2009, 03:46 PM
I love optimism but I am concerned about next year.

I think some of the ifs will work out but some won't just like every year.

Look at the iffy players

Overbay - does he get back to where he was? - If he does what he does this year i'd be happy
Wells - does he get back to where he was? - I really hope so
Halladay - does he stay? and if so will he be healthy all year? - He hasn't been injured yet (majorly) knock on wood
3B - who goes there? - Edwin Encarnicion
SS- who goes there? - Hopefully we don't overpay for Scutaro
Catcher - who goes there? - Bring back Barajas or someone else keep Chavez though
Dh - who goes there? - Lind/Snider then sign Bay
Bullpen - does it shore up? - I really hope so
Starting pitching (behind Roy) - who are they? and will they be healthy? - Ricky Romero, Zep, Marcum, Cecil, there's plenty of guys to fill it but i'd like to sign a legit #2
Ownership - are they really going to invest this year? (I doubt it) - I doubt it, but i'd like to hope so

the bold is my input/what i'd like to happen.

Gibby
09-07-2009, 10:26 PM
i thinks the jays would need a power bat. it would be great if he came in the form of a 3rd baseman.

donatolla
09-13-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm really starting to worry about outfield defense...or rather defense in general.

An outfield of Snider/Wells/Lind would be epically bad - even IF Wells returns to form. Try to go after Bay in the off season and the defense will actually get *worse.* (Maybe he isn't adjusting to the green monster this year, but Bay is having a BAD year defensively).

There is a key lesson that led to the improvement of the Rays last year, Rangers this year. Defense can be added much more cheaply than can the kind of offense that we would need to offset all the added runs.

I'd like to see a new Centerfielder brought in...then look at third base (at least then the infield defense can be awesome).

Twitchy
09-13-2009, 08:54 PM
I'm really starting to worry about outfield defense...or rather defense in general.

An outfield of Snider/Wells/Lind would be epically bad - even IF Wells returns to form. Try to go after Bay in the off season and the defense will actually get *worse.* (Maybe he isn't adjusting to the green monster this year, but Bay is having a BAD year defensively).

There is a key lesson that led to the improvement of the Rays last year, Rangers this year. Defense can be added much more cheaply than can the kind of offense that we would need to offset all the added runs.

I'd like to see a new Centerfielder brought in...then look at third base (at least then the infield defense can be awesome).

Mike Cameron would be perfect for this team. Throw him in CF, Wells in RF, Snider in LF and Lind is the DH. Upgrades the entire OF defense and adds a nice bat too. Probably improves the OF defense by about 30 runs by moving Wells out of CF, Lind out of LF, and putting a very good defensive player in Cameron in CF.

As much as I'd like to upgrade the 3B spot with defense, I don't see it happening unless the Jays get Beltre or Figgins. Not a lot of good options @ 3B, unless you think Huff will rebound and can still play 3B. We might be stuck with Edwin if JP or whoever is in charge doesn't get creative.

I still think the Jays need another arm in the rotation. If you can bump Marcum/Romero and one of Zep/Cecil to the 3-4-5 spots the rotation will be a hell of a lot better. Assuming his arm hasn't fallen off, I'd really like to take a shot on Ben Sheets. I don't see anybody else who's got much upside unless you think Pineiro/Penny/Marquis would do well in the AL.

donatolla
09-13-2009, 09:09 PM
Mike Cameron would be perfect for this team. Throw him in CF, Wells in RF, Snider in LF and Lind is the DH. Upgrades the entire OF defense and adds a nice bat too. Probably improves the OF defense by about 30 runs by moving Wells out of CF, Lind out of LF, and putting a very good defensive player in Cameron in CF.

As much as I'd like to upgrade the 3B spot with defense, I don't see it happening unless the Jays get Beltre or Figgins. Not a lot of good options @ 3B, unless you think Huff will rebound and can still play 3B. We might be stuck with Edwin if JP or whoever is in charge doesn't get creative.

I still think the Jays need another arm in the rotation. If you can bump Marcum/Romero and one of Zep/Cecil to the 3-4-5 spots the rotation will be a hell of a lot better. Assuming his arm hasn't fallen off, I'd really like to take a shot on Ben Sheets. I don't see anybody else who's got much upside unless you think Pineiro/Penny/Marquis would do well in the AL.

Cameron is exactly who I've been thinking of too.

As for pitching - not sure. I think that this team is likely to do much less to improve from outside than most think. It wouldn't surprise me to see them not spend money at all, and see where they are with the existing crew.

Sheets would be an interesting gamble though.

marcre
09-13-2009, 10:05 PM
Cameron is exactly who I've been thinking of too.

As for pitching - not sure. I think that this team is likely to do much less to improve from outside than most think. It wouldn't surprise me to see them not spend money at all, and see where they are with the existing crew.

Sheets would be an interesting gamble though.

I'm almost positive this team will do no spending this off-season.

Twitchy
09-13-2009, 10:42 PM
I'm almost positive this team will do no spending this off-season.

That's what I'm afraid of. I don't care if they rebuild or if they try to compete, but don't just sit around and not make any moves. Whether it's trading Overbay/Downs/Frasor to get some prospects and rebuild, or signing/trading some vets, pick a direction and make a move.

StealingSigns
09-14-2009, 12:14 AM
That's what I'm afraid of. I don't care if they rebuild or if they try to compete, but don't just sit around and not make any moves. Whether it's trading Overbay/Downs/Frasor to get some prospects and rebuild, or signing/trading some vets, pick a direction and make a move.

It would be horrible if they stood pat again, eesh.

I was convinced a few weeks back that the team would be blown up, but some in the Toronto media with close links to Paul Beeston are still saying there will be an increase in payroll next year.

I still think they should rebuild, but maybe the new president they have lined up has a business plan that makes sense to Rogers. :confused: