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View Full Version : PSD NBA Finals Round (#2 ORLANDO vs. #1 LA LAKERS)



JordansBulls
09-02-2009, 01:11 PM
LA Lakers Have Homecourt Advantage in this Series


PSD NBA FINALS

Orlando vs. LA LAKERS
Winner: Vote here!

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Each poll will have a voting time of 7 days. This applies to each matchup until an

NBA Champion has been determined.



PSD CONFERENCE WINNERS- PLAYOFFS - PREDICTIONS


EASTERN FINALS

Orlando vs. Toronto
Winner: Orlando, 4-1 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401224)


WESTERN FINALS

LA Lakers vs. San Antonio
Winner: LA Lakers, 4-2 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401227)



NOTE: Don't put this in your teams forum with a link to it or you are disqualified.

clutchski
09-02-2009, 01:13 PM
Hmm repeat of last year..this would be a great matchup with the changes both teams have made. tough call.

Raph12
09-02-2009, 01:31 PM
Man now this is a tough one, with all of the changes. I say if the chemistry is right, Orlando in 6; if not, LA in 6.

Gibby23
09-02-2009, 01:53 PM
Lakers in 5.

Gibby23
09-02-2009, 01:53 PM
And Boston should be here

MackSnackWrap
09-02-2009, 02:03 PM
LAkers will take it in 5 games

ManRam
09-02-2009, 02:16 PM
I really want to be a homer...but I really don't think the Magic are actually better.

soundjunkies2
09-02-2009, 02:20 PM
I chose the lakers in 6 but it could easily go either way.

jackyyy
09-02-2009, 02:27 PM
i still think we can shut down dwight howard.. its just the addition of VC , Barnes , Bass im worried about.


Lakers in 6 though

theuuord
09-02-2009, 02:31 PM
lmao @ the Raptors

Orlando in 7. But if this happens it will be a great series.

JWO35
09-02-2009, 02:39 PM
Where's my Toronto Raptors!?

IversonIsKrazy
09-02-2009, 03:12 PM
i cant believe the Raptors are not going to win, i mean there the clear choice, lol.

anyways, Lakers beat ORL in 5 last year, Lakers added Artest, while Orlando got VC with the subtraction of Hedo. They got Bass & Gortat though, with Barnes as well, but IMO Lakers would still take it in 6. Dwight still wont be able to bully around Gasol and Odom, and hopefully Bynum and most likely he will contribute over 7ppg and 4rpg this time. Also, i think Sasha Vujacic will revive his 3-point sucess and come up huge.

OVerall i c LA taking it in 6.

Vidball
09-02-2009, 03:20 PM
Lakers in 5...adding Ron Artest and having a healthy Drew will give the Lakers a nasty defense.

Lakersfan2483
09-02-2009, 03:34 PM
LA in 6 games., nothing has changed in terms of the Magic, they should have kept Turk. Carter gives them a better backcourt player for sure, but they have lost a playmaker in Hedo. LA has gotten better in terms of adding one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and another legit scoring option. All in all, I don't see the Magic having enough to upset LA in a 7 game series.

JordansBulls
09-02-2009, 03:50 PM
LA in 6 games., nothing has changed in terms of the Magic, they should have kept Turk. Carter gives them a better backcourt player for sure, but they have lost a playmaker in Hedo. LA has gotten better in terms of adding one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA and another legit scoring option. All in all, I don't see the Magic having enough to upset LA in a 7 game series.

They have plenty of enough to upset the Lakers. A whole new backcourt in fact, more depth and more defenders.

To me Boston or Orlando are the only ones that can knock off LA.

Ace33Bone
09-02-2009, 03:52 PM
Lakers in 7... too much talent for the Magic, but if this series were to take place again i would be cheering for the Magic

Antbanks21
09-02-2009, 04:05 PM
I can't even imagine the magic upsetting the lakers. Orlando is stacked, but they simply can't stop Kobe and with the addition of Artest, the lakers are one of the best defensive teams out there and already were the best offensive team last year. lakers are the team to beat!

Tommyh1331
09-02-2009, 04:18 PM
Great series Orlando in 7 and gets their revenge for last year

Raps08-09 Champ
09-02-2009, 04:44 PM
Damn it.

I told all you guys to make extra accounts and vote Raptors.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-02-2009, 04:45 PM
Lakers obviously going to win.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-02-2009, 04:45 PM
But I don't think there would be a finals rematch though.

LAKERMANIA
09-02-2009, 05:04 PM
But I don't think there would be a finals rematch though.

Me niether, nor did I think the Raptors make it to the ECF beating Boston but hey thats just me..

Lakers in 6 I think it comes down to HCA..

Gibby
09-02-2009, 05:14 PM
lakers are running away with this poll. if only raps made it. :rolleyes:

i think it will be magic in 7. i want see how much improvement we will see from Howard this season.

Saint Brian
09-02-2009, 05:18 PM
Lakers in five games.

still1ballin
09-02-2009, 06:15 PM
I don't think it will be a finals repeat, but Lakers for sure will win it again. Lakers in 5.

I like you
09-02-2009, 06:38 PM
Lakers in 5

bigsams50
09-02-2009, 07:07 PM
lake show

RaiderLakersA's
09-02-2009, 07:13 PM
No one on Orlando scares me...and even with the additions I don't think that makes the Magic a smarter b-ball team.

Lakers in 5. Lakers in 6 if they don't have HCA.

RaiderLakersA's
09-02-2009, 07:14 PM
Lakers in 7 if D. Howard develops an inside game and realizes that the Finals aren't the time to try and get Kobe Bryant to smile.

GCOOKIE7
09-02-2009, 07:28 PM
Raptors in 7.

LakePackYank
09-02-2009, 07:30 PM
Lakers in 6. I like the additions the magic made, but I can't see them beating the lakers at all. The lakers won last year and now they are even better with artest.

LakePackYank
09-02-2009, 07:32 PM
Raptors in 7.

That sig of yours fits you perfectly. :laugh2:

zambo4president
09-02-2009, 08:02 PM
Lakers in 6.

iggypop123
09-02-2009, 08:52 PM
lakers in 5. they beat them in 5 last yr with a hurt bynum yet howard was contained. with the 3 bigs the lakers have they can throw enough at howard to stop his impact.

WITZ
09-02-2009, 09:24 PM
I thought Toronto was gonna make the finals Oh well ima go with lakers in 5.

JordansBulls
09-02-2009, 11:06 PM
I think people are selling Orlando short. People are forgetting that Vince and Kobe's numbers in the playoffs are virtually the same.


Playoffs

Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg , 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per

GCOOKIE7
09-02-2009, 11:14 PM
That sig of yours fits you perfectly. :laugh2:

Thanks. I actually has 5 infractions when you said that... but I seem to find a way to add to it.

ARMIN12NBA
09-03-2009, 12:15 AM
Lakers in 6. I don't think the Magic added the pieces that would help lift them above the Lakers. Maybe they get an extra win, but not more than that. Kobe and Pau still have decided advantages and Bynum should only get better (remember he did very well starting off on Howard; Laker players said Bynum set the tone for the defensive pressure on D12).

I see a Repeat Championship! Back to Back!

BTW-- I don't think this will be the NBA Finals though. I think it will be Lakers v. Celtics (if KG is healthy).

ARMIN12NBA
09-03-2009, 12:19 AM
I think people are selling Orlando short. People are forgetting that Vince and Kobe's numbers in the playoffs are virtually the same.


Playoffs

Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg , 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per

Not really. Take a look at Kobe's playoff numbers since 2000 (becoming starter in full NBA season) and his numbers are much, much better than Carter's.

Not to mention defense and other intangibles.

MTar786
09-03-2009, 12:53 AM
iduno how people seem to think orlando cant win.. its highly possible. i still think LA will win in 6 but i wouldnt be the least bit surprised if it went 7 and right down to the last few possessions. not cuz of d12 tho. He's over rated imo. It's cuz of that depth with j-will, barnes, pietrus, healthy nelson, gortat, bass and the addition of carter. but ill still take LA cuz we have artest, healthy bynum and a vujacic that cant do any worse than last season.. and HCA

RaptorizedKevin
09-03-2009, 12:55 AM
lakers 6 games.

MTar786
09-03-2009, 12:59 AM
I think people are selling Orlando short. People are forgetting that Vince and Kobe's numbers in the playoffs are virtually the same.


Playoffs

Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg , 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per

so i guess with that kind of mentality ud say that the lakers would have still won the 09 title if u switched kobe and carter??

i agree with u that orlando is being a little under estimated.. but come on.. that is not the way to compare the two players talent.. this is just another way of proving stats dont mean as much as people think.. they dont show the true players value. i wonder if carter was triple teamed on the 25 points he was getting :rolleyes:

Raph12
09-03-2009, 01:20 AM
so i guess with that kind of mentality ud say that the lakers would have still won the 09 title if u switched kobe and carter??

i agree with u that orlando is being a little under estimated.. but come on.. that is not the way to compare the two players talent.. this is just another way of proving stats dont mean as much as people think.. they dont show the true players value. i wonder if carter was triple teamed on the 25 points he was getting :rolleyes:

The Lakers would probably still win considering that Lee would guard Carter, Nelson was coming off a 4 month absence and the Magic team was inferior in almost every way to the Lakers last season.

Carter was doubled and tripled because he was the only legitimate scorer on his team practically his whole career.

Now don't misunderstand this post, Kobe is on a different level than Carter for sure, but the Magic backcourt last year in the playoffs could be outplayed by any elite SG, let alone the best player in the league in Kobe.

JB is just trying to point out that people underestimate Carter and the Magic, I personally think he is right, but the Magic will have to prove it first. Chemistry will be key.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-03-2009, 02:05 AM
I think people are selling Orlando short. People are forgetting that Vince and Kobe's numbers in the playoffs are virtually the same.


Playoffs

Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg , 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per

Carter has played less games and was the man back then. He isn't the man now so those stats probably don't mean anything.

lakerboy
09-03-2009, 03:38 AM
LA in 5

JordansBulls
09-03-2009, 08:26 AM
Not really. Take a look at Kobe's playoff numbers since 2000 (becoming starter in full NBA season) and his numbers are much, much better than Carter's.

Not to mention defense and other intangibles.

No one said Carter was better, but that people are selling the Magic short. I threw his stats out there to show how productive he has been in the playoffs.

Gibby23
09-03-2009, 10:44 AM
No one said Carter was better, but that people are selling the Magic short. I threw his stats out there to show how productive he has been in the playoffs.

But this is the Finals, so show me what Vince has done in the Finals. Howard had great playoff stats and in the Finals he just scored 15.4ppg and shot 48%. In the playoffs he was shooting about 60%.

jimbobjarree
09-03-2009, 10:45 AM
if Magic can stay healthy I think they've improved much more, I'd take them in 7....whateva happens I just hope next years goes longer than 5 games

JordansBulls
09-03-2009, 11:48 AM
But this is the Finals, so show me what Vince has done in the Finals. Howard had great playoff stats and in the Finals he just scored 15.4ppg and shot 48%. In the playoffs he was shooting about 60%.

Are you serious?

Yeah Dwight had played bad in the finals, but overall these are Kobe's finals numbers.

In 30 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 24.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 5.3 assists a game on 41% FG. That's worst this his overall playoff numbers and season numbers.

TO Rapz
09-03-2009, 12:24 PM
lake show in 6 =)

LAKERMANIA
09-03-2009, 12:27 PM
I think people are selling Orlando short. People are forgetting that Vince and Kobe's numbers in the playoffs are virtually the same.


Playoffs

Kobe Bryant
25.0 ppg, 44.7% fg, 32.9% 3pt FG, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.7 bpg, 2.9 tpg , 22.0 per


Vince Carter
25.9 ppg, 41.8% fg, 33.2% 3 pt FG, 6.9 rpg, 5.2 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.9 bpg, 2.7 tpg, 21.4 per

Senseiking?

LAKERMANIA
09-03-2009, 12:28 PM
No one said Carter was better, but that people are selling the Magic short. I threw his stats out there to show how productive he has been in the playoffs.

No one is selling the Magic Short, I said the Lakers in 6, that means the Magic win a whopping 2 GAMES! in the FINALS! :clap:

theuuord
09-03-2009, 12:52 PM
so i guess with that kind of mentality ud say that the lakers would have still won the 09 title if u switched kobe and carter??


That mentality or not, the Lakers definitely would have won the Finals if they had Carter and not Kobe. They're still the best team in the NBA even with that switch.

LakePackYank
09-03-2009, 01:04 PM
That mentality or not, the Lakers definitely would have won the Finals if they had Carter and not Kobe. They're still the best team in the NBA even with that switch.

usually most of what you say makes sense even if i disagree with you but this one is just so absurd that i will even sig this. :pity:

theuuord
09-03-2009, 01:20 PM
usually most of what you say makes sense even if i disagree with you but this one is just so absurd that i will even sig this. :pity:

lol if you really think the dropoff from Carter to Kobe is so vast that the Magic would go from losing in 5 to winning the series then I can't help you.

The Lakers had the best team in basketball last year. Kobe was a big part of that. But if you take out Kobe and give that team any of the top shooting guards - Wade, Roy, Iguodala, Carter, Johnson - they're still the best team in basketball. Not as good, obviously, except with Wade, but still the best.

JordansBulls
09-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Senseiking?

La SeV???;)

Gibby23
09-03-2009, 01:59 PM
Are you serious?

Yeah Dwight had played bad in the finals, but overall these are Kobe's finals numbers.

In 30 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 24.6 points, 5.2 rebounds and 5.3 assists a game on 41% FG. That's worst this his overall playoff numbers and season numbers.

Am I serious?

You were the on comparing playoff numbers of a guy (Vince Carter) who isn't even a top 10 player in the NBA, to a guy that is the 1st or 2nd best player in the game.

JordansBulls
09-03-2009, 03:34 PM
Am I serious?

You were the on comparing playoff numbers of a guy (Vince Carter) who isn't even a top 10 player in the NBA, to a guy that is the 1st or 2nd best player in the game.

Ok??? What's your point?

It just goes to show how productive that guy who isn't 10th in the NBA is to a guy who is 1st or 2nd best in the playoffs.

Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that Vince is better or even close, it just shows how productive he has been in the playoffs in his career.

Gibby23
09-03-2009, 03:44 PM
Ok??? What's your point?

It just goes to show how productive that guy who isn't 10th in the NBA is to a guy who is 1st or 2nd best in the playoffs.

Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean that Vince is better or even close, it just shows how productive he has been in the playoffs in his career.

It's kind of meaningless tp put Vinces playoff stats up there because the last time he was in the playoffs was 2 years ago and if he makes it this year it will be 3 years since his last playoffs. he will be 3 years older, his game is not like it was when he was 30. You can't really throw out career playoff numbers and say the guy can do that 3 years later.

*Superman*
09-03-2009, 04:51 PM
Votings are biased, they are all laker fans.

theuuord
09-03-2009, 04:53 PM
Votings are biased, they are all laker fans.

Probably, but it's still totally justifiable.

Gibby23
09-03-2009, 05:01 PM
Votings are biased, they are all laker fans.

Well I assume you voted for the Magic. You are a Magic fan, isn't that biased?

JordansBulls
09-03-2009, 05:06 PM
Votings are biased, they are all laker fans.

Another forum had the Raps sweeping the Celtics, Magic and Lakers and the Raps won it all.

lorenz00
09-03-2009, 05:26 PM
lakers sweep baby

MTar786
09-03-2009, 05:29 PM
lol if you really think the dropoff from Carter to Kobe is so vast that the Magic would go from losing in 5 to winning the series then I can't help you.

The Lakers had the best team in basketball last year. Kobe was a big part of that. But if you take out Kobe and give that team any of the top shooting guards - Wade, Roy, Iguodala, Carter, Johnson - they're still the best team in basketball. Not as good, obviously, except with Wade, but still the best.

wowowoww i think someone needs to join Michael beasley in rehabbbb

the lakers not only would have lost to the magic. they wouldnt have even made the finals

magichatnumber9
09-03-2009, 05:46 PM
Even in this league Orlando chokes

Lakersfan2483
09-03-2009, 06:08 PM
lol if you really think the dropoff from Carter to Kobe is so vast that the Magic would go from losing in 5 to winning the series then I can't help you.

The Lakers had the best team in basketball last year. Kobe was a big part of that. But if you take out Kobe and give that team any of the top shooting guards - Wade, Roy, Iguodala, Carter, Johnson - they're still the best team in basketball. Not as good, obviously, except with Wade, but still the best.

Outside of Wade, if the Lakers lost Kobe, they would not have beaten the Nuggets, Rockets or Magic with the guys you named. They were taken to 7 games against Houston with Kobe and were taken to a competitive 6 games against the Nuggets. Outside of Wade, I don't see any of those guys being enough to beat any of those teams and I am quite confident in my statement as well. None of those guys (except for Wade) have accomplished anything in the playoffs and would not be able to lead the 08-09 Lakers to the championship.

theuuord
09-03-2009, 06:18 PM
[/B]

Outside of Wade, if the Lakers lost Kobe, they would not have beaten the Nuggets, Rockets or Magic with the guys you named. They were taken to 7 games against Houston with Kobe and were taken to a competitive 6 games against the Nuggets. Outside of Wade, I don't see any of those guys being enough to beat any of those teams and I am quite confident in my statement as well. None of those guys (except for Wade) have accomplished anything in the playoffs and would not be able to lead the 08-09 Lakers to the championship.

Definitely disagree. Kobe is certainly a notch above everyone I listed (except for Wade), but the difference between their play levels is not so staggering that it swings the entire series. The only arguable one would be Houston, and even then Kobe was subpar (for Kobe standards, mind you, which means he still played really well, even against Battier) for two of their four wins, which means they didn't rely on him for their victories. All four of their victories against the Rockets they won by double digits - 13, 14, 30, and 19 points. The difference between Kobe and the guys I listed (except arguably Johnson) wouldn't have turned any of those wins into losses.

Lakersfan2483
09-03-2009, 06:25 PM
Definitely disagree. Kobe is certainly a notch above everyone I listed (except for Wade), but the difference between their play levels is not so staggering that it swings the entire series. The only arguable one would be Houston, and even then Kobe was subpar (for Kobe standards, mind you, which means he still played really well, even against Battier) for two of their four wins, which means they didn't rely on him for their victories. All four of their victories against the Rockets they won by double digits - 13, 14, 30, and 19 points. The difference between Kobe and the guys I listed (except arguably Johnson) wouldn't have turned any of those wins into losses.

Answer this question: Outside of Wade, what have you seen from any of those guys you mentioned that leads you to believe they could have led the Lakers to a title last season? None of those guys have shown they can lead a team past the 2nd round as the no. 1 option, so what makes you think they have what it takes to lead a team to a title as the main option. It's a lot more difficult then you think to win a title and beat certain teams, you don't just assume certain players would win by taking player A out and inserting player B, it doesn't work like that, unless the player(s) you mentioned are hall of fame players with a winning background.

Iguodala, Johnson, etc, are not good enough to lead a team to a title, point blank. As I stated earlier, Wade is the only player at the 2 guard spot that could have led LA to the title last year. As a matter of fact, there are only a handful of players in the NBA that are real franchise players and are good enough as a no. 1 option to lead a team to a title. It's very difficult to win a championship in the NBA as the main guy.

theuuord
09-03-2009, 06:29 PM
Answer this question: Outside of Wade, what have you seen from any of those guys you mentioned that leads you to believe they could have led the Lakers to a title last season? None of those guys have shown they can lead a team past the 2nd round as the no. 1 option, so what makes you think they have what it takes to lead a team to a title as the main option. It's a lot more difficult then you think to win a title and beat certain teams, you don't just assume certain players would win by taking player A out and inserting player B, it doesn't work like that, unless the player(s) you mentioned are hall of fame players with a winning background.

I would argue that every single one of those players (save, as I said, the arguable Joe Johnson) that I listed was more effective as an individual player than any player on the Pistons during their championship years. The Lakers both had a superstar in Kobe and they were extraordinarily effective as an entire unit. The team wouldn't suffer because they had a slightly lesser player (or Wade) at the 2.

The only chance Carter had was with a Toronto team that quite literally was the worst team in the NBA without him, and they were one shot away from the ECF. Roy is in his third year with an extremely young team.

You (like a lot of people on this site) are highly overstating the first option and highly understating the other eleven.

Lakersfan2483
09-03-2009, 06:34 PM
I would argue that every single one of those players (save, as I said, the arguable Joe Johnson) that I listed was more effective as an individual player than any player on the Pistons during their championship years. The Lakers both had a superstar in Kobe and they were extraordinarily effective as an entire unit. The team wouldn't suffer because they had a slightly lesser player (or Wade) at the 2.

The only chance Carter had was with a Toronto team that quite literally was the worst team in the NBA without him, and they were one shot away from the ECF. Roy is in his third year with an extremely young team.

You (like a lot of people on this site) are highly overstating the first option and highly understating the other eleven.

I think you are undervaluing the role of a no. 1 guy and not understanding how difficult it is to lead a team to a title. Also, the Pistons team were an aberration, most title teams are composed of 2 superstars and very good role players.

BTW, Kobe was the main reason that team won, when he went out of the game, the team struggled for the most part. Again, a lot of people on this site don't understand just how important he was to that team's success last year. His team was definitely talented, but if you take him away and plug in another shooting guard (except for Wade) that team would not win a title.

*Do you know how watered down the East was when Carter was having most of his success? The eastern conference was weak during the early and mid 00's.

theuuord
09-03-2009, 09:21 PM
[/B]

I think you are undervaluing the role of a no. 1 guy and not understanding how difficult it is to lead a team to a title. Also, the Pistons team were an aberration, most title teams are composed of 2 superstars and very good role players.

What team would have gotten in their way this season? Utah didn't stand a chance. Houston didn't stand a chance after Yao went down in game 3 and got blown out in every loss. Carmelo was mired in the worst year of his career and Billups can't make close-out shots (6-37 on game-winners in the last six years). The Magic don't have one single perimeter player on Wade/Roy/Carter's level and Gasol completely locked down Howard.

On a team of that strength, Wade/a blooming Roy/veteran Carter or Gasol could easily have taken a so-called "#1 option" moniker and the team would still be balanced enough to take down any challenger in the NBA last season.


BTW, Kobe was the main reason that team won, when he went out of the game, the team struggled for the most part. Again, a lot of people on this site don't understand just how important he was to that team's success last year. His team was definitely talented, but if you take him away and plug in another shooting guard (except for Wade) that team would not win a title.

This is how crazy Kobe love gets, sports fans. I actually have to defend the strength of the Lakers to a Lakers fan.
Yes, Kobe is a great player. Yes, Kobe is the main reason that team won because he was the best player on the team. That doesn't mean the rest of the team wasn't unbelievably strong. Gasol is the best 2nd option in the game and better than a ton of so-called first options. He's also perhaps the most underrated post defender in the game - he played single coverage on Howard and basically shut him down every game of the Finals. Lamar Odom, as flaky as he can be, played very well in the playoffs. Derek Fisher, although he certainly struggled at times in the playoffs, is a playoff-tested, ice-in-my-veins point guard who made a couple of daggers in the Finals. Shannon Brown shot 12-25 from deep in the playoffs in limited time.

If Wade was on the Lakers possession usage likely wouldn't change at all. If Roy/Carter was on the Lakers he'd probably take 27% of possessions, about 6% less than Kobe did, at the same efficiency. The other possessions would be spread around to the rest of the starting 5 and Odom and barely any overall efficiency for the team would be lost (if any at all).

Are you really trying to tell me that a lineup of Fisher-Wade/Roy/Carter-Ariza-Gasol-Bynum with Odom playing 6th man wouldn't have been the best top 6 in basketball - certainly in the playoffs - last year?


*Do you know how watered down the East was when Carter was having most of his success? The eastern conference was weak during the early and mid 00's.

And do you realize how HORRIBLE Carter's Raptor teams were? Carter scored more than twice as many points per game than any other player, while having the highest offensive efficiency of any player on the team. That's unheard of. That's prime-Jordan-playing-on-Princeton bad. (Well maybe not that bad. But you get my point.) The fact that his team in 2001 even made it to the 2nd round is a testament to how freaking amazing Vince Carter was in that season. The fact that the Raptors made it to the playoffs ANY year Vince was there is a testament to that, actually.

theuuord
09-03-2009, 09:39 PM
Before what I'm saying gets horribly misinterpreted (which I know never happens on PSD), I don't want Lakers fans to think I'm devaluing Kobe Bryant. I'm not. He's an amazing physical specimen and one of the best players in the NBA (and for that matter, one of the best the NBA has ever seen). He was the main reason the Lakers have their fourth championship since he's been with them. He's a joy to watch play and I'd probably jump through my skin if he was on my team, too.

What I am saying, however, is that the Lakers team surrounding Kobe was exceptionally strong (especially their top 6 depth), and that even if you replaced Kobe with another top shooting guard, the team as a whole wouldn't have missed a beat. This is not if you switched Kobe, merely if you replaced him. For instance, if the rest of the lineups from last year were identical and Kobe was on the Magic instead of the Lakers, I would have picked the Magic to win last year's Finals - probably in 5 games.

I know hearing Kobe Bryant's name gives all you guys tinglies and deservedly so, and I'm not trying to take that feeling away. I'm just saying that because of the strength of the rest of your team (which you guys weirdly underappreciate - maybe watching it all the time makes it stale), even if Kobe was Dwyane, or Brandon, or Vince the Lakers would still likely have won that ring you fans are so happy your team has.

Lakersfan2483
09-04-2009, 02:28 AM
Before what I'm saying gets horribly misinterpreted (which I know never happens on PSD), I don't want Lakers fans to think I'm devaluing Kobe Bryant. I'm not. He's an amazing physical specimen and one of the best players in the NBA (and for that matter, one of the best the NBA has ever seen). He was the main reason the Lakers have their fourth championship since he's been with them. He's a joy to watch play and I'd probably jump through my skin if he was on my team, too.

What I am saying, however, is that the Lakers team surrounding Kobe was exceptionally strong (especially their top 6 depth), and that even if you replaced Kobe with another top shooting guard, the team as a whole wouldn't have missed a beat. This is not if you switched Kobe, merely if you replaced him. For instance, if the rest of the lineups from last year were identical and Kobe was on the Magic instead of the Lakers, I would have picked the Magic to win last year's Finals - probably in 5 games.

I know hearing Kobe Bryant's name gives all you guys tinglies and deservedly so, and I'm not trying to take that feeling away. I'm just saying that because of the strength of the rest of your team (which you guys weirdly underappreciate - maybe watching it all the time makes it stale), even if Kobe was Dwyane, or Brandon, or Vince the Lakers would still likely have won that ring you fans are so happy your team has.

As I stated earlier, outside of Wade, no other shooting guard would have led the Lakers to a title this past season. You aren't giving the other teams enough credit, Denver posed a serious threat to LA and had it not been for some big time performances from Kobe, the Lakers could have easily lost that series. The only other shooting guard that I could see playing close to Kobe's level against the best teams and influencing the outcome of the game would be Wade.

As far as your comment about the Lakers cast being talented and many laker fans not realizing that, trust me, we all realize they have talent., but also understand that Bryant is the driving force behind the team's success. We also understand that you can't just plug in any shooting guard and think that he can pickup the intricacies of the triangle, fascilitate the offense, spear head the defensive charge, and take over the game at the end. All of what I stated, makes Bryant a once in a generation type of player. It's true that LA has a talented roster, but take away Bryant and insert a guard not named Wade, and that team gets beat by Denver or Houston, no question about it.

Magic Johnson was the orchestrator of arguably the greatest team of all time, a team filled with talent, but you take Magic away, and that team was a totally diff. team on the court. My whole point is, like Magic, Bryant does so much to make his team operate smoothly and you simply can't input another star and say that the team wouldn't miss a beat, it doesn't work like that. Guys like Magic, Bryant, etc.. are a rare breed and it's very difficult for a lot of players to replicate what they bring to their respective teams night in and night out.....

*You also have to factor in major intangibles like leadership, postseason/finals experience, etc.... and most of those guys you mentioned save for Wade, aren't on par with the likes of a Kobe Bryant and it's not even debatable.

-Big-Baby-
09-04-2009, 02:46 AM
Ron Artest better keep his moth shut and play basketball if he wants to see a ring.

Gambeezy
09-04-2009, 03:07 AM
I don't even know why we do these anymore. There are too many Lakers fans for this too be unbiased.

KobeBeatJeeesus
09-04-2009, 03:10 AM
Its insane how people underestimate the power of intangibles. Kobe has skills that you can't just learn from repetition, and clearly has skill that you can learn from repetition. Look at what happened to lebrooms "powerhouse" against the magic, or why the Nuggets were SIGNIFICANTLY better after the Iverson trade. Iverson puts up great numbers too, you gonna say that he can replace Kobe? Kobe is Jordanesque in that he is a one of a kind player with a killer instinct and a stellar skill set who WILL win a game when he wants to. Aside from that, the Magic had an amazing supporting cast, they just kind of...you know.....lost.

KobeBeatJeeesus
09-04-2009, 03:14 AM
I don't even know why we do these anymore. There are too many Lakers fans for this too be unbiased.

You dont have to be a Laker fan to know that they're going to win another ring this season (or at least make the finals)

Any time you're dealing with the greatest franchise in the history of Basketball, you can pretty much guarantee that they'll win.

LakePackYank
09-04-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't even know why we do these anymore. There are too many Lakers fans for this too be unbiased.

how is it lakers beating orlando a biased choice? Lakers are right now the best in the league and are currently the defending champs.

It's not like were voting for our favorite team just because of that, it's because we think that their better and it's not such a bad choice either.

Or hey what about when raptors fan voted raptors over a healthy boston team in a 7 game series? what that's not biased?

theuuord
09-04-2009, 01:40 PM
As I stated earlier, outside of Wade, no other shooting guard would have led the Lakers to a title this past season. You aren't giving the other teams enough credit, Denver posed a serious threat to LA and had it not been for some big time performances from Kobe, the Lakers could have easily lost that series. The only other shooting guard that I could see playing close to Kobe's level against the best teams and influencing the outcome of the game would be Wade.

Again, I'm not denying that Kobe played some great games. But what game were they going to lose? The only game that could really have swung in either direction was game 1, and while Kobe was outstanding, a more balanced attack likely wouldn't have ended any differently (one where the shooting guard doesn't take 30% of the shots and nobody else outside of Derek Fisher even hits double digits in FGA).
The Lakers weren't going to go from winning in 6 to losing that series if you put a slight downgrade (or Wade) in Kobe's position.


As far as your comment about the Lakers cast being talented and many laker fans not realizing that, trust me, we all realize they have talent., but also understand that Bryant is the driving force behind the team's success. We also understand that you can't just plug in any shooting guard and think that he can pickup the intricacies of the triangle, fascilitate the offense, spear head the defensive charge, and take over the game at the end. All of what I stated, makes Bryant a once in a generation type of player. It's true that LA has a talented roster, but take away Bryant and insert a guard not named Wade, and that team gets beat by Denver or Houston, no question about it.

Magic Johnson was the orchestrator of arguably the greatest team of all time, a team filled with talent, but you take Magic away, and that team was a totally diff. team on the court. My whole point is, like Magic, Bryant does so much to make his team operate smoothly and you simply can't input another star and say that the team wouldn't miss a beat, it doesn't work like that. Guys like Magic, Bryant, etc.. are a rare breed and it's very difficult for a lot of players to replicate what they bring to their respective teams night in and night out.....

*You also have to factor in major intangibles like leadership, postseason/finals experience, etc.... and most of those guys you mentioned save for Wade, aren't on par with the likes of a Kobe Bryant and it's not even debatable.

I really don't think you guys understand it at all. Bryant has been the leader to one championship in the last six years, and all of a sudden, he's the undisputed "driving force"? I didn't hear one person say that about him from 2005-2007, when Kobe was throwing up 35 a night and you guys were getting knocked out of the first round or missing the playoffs altogether. He was a no-trade clause away from going to Chicago.
Where was this defensive stalwart in 2005 when the Lakers had the worst defense in the NBA? Where was this cold-blooded killer in 2006 and 2007 when the Suns knocked them out of the first round in consecutive years?

Bryant is the best shooting guard of the decade, and there's no doubt about that, but you guys act like he's not even a human sometimes. He puts his pants on one leg at a time too, and his value isn't at a level that immediately forces the team out of the playoffs if you downgrade slightly or put Wade there.
Lakers fans love to argue Bryant's intangibles but what they rarely seem to be able to acknowledge is the actual value of those intangibles. And while they certainly have some value, they are far from this unbeatable, unthinkable God-like quality.

The Lakers were 125-133 (including playoff games) from 2005-2007, between the Shaq-Gasol years. Now, outside of Lamar Odom (who averaged a double-double) and all-star Caron Butler, the team wasn't very good, but how much credit do you give Kobe for that team? I remember Lakers fans calling for his head at that time.
Subsequently, how much credit are you taking away from Gasol and the rest of the team's development?

theuuord
09-04-2009, 01:41 PM
Its insane how people underestimate the power of intangibles. Kobe has skills that you can't just learn from repetition, and clearly has skill that you can learn from repetition. Look at what happened to lebrooms "powerhouse" against the magic, or why the Nuggets were SIGNIFICANTLY better after the Iverson trade. Iverson puts up great numbers too, you gonna say that he can replace Kobe? Kobe is Jordanesque in that he is a one of a kind player with a killer instinct and a stellar skill set who WILL win a game when he wants to. Aside from that, the Magic had an amazing supporting cast, they just kind of...you know.....lost.

a) LeBron was the only great player on that team and the Cavs got outclassed defensively
b) Billups's numbers are better than Iverson's, you just have to put them in context
c) Kobe is not Jordan
d) The Magic caught on fire during the end of the Celtics series and the Cavs series, then were beaten by the better team in the Finals

ARMIN12NBA
09-04-2009, 07:23 PM
lol if you really think the dropoff from Carter to Kobe is so vast that the Magic would go from losing in 5 to winning the series then I can't help you.

The Lakers had the best team in basketball last year. Kobe was a big part of that. But if you take out Kobe and give that team any of the top shooting guards - Wade, Roy, Iguodala, Carter, Johnson - they're still the best team in basketball. Not as good, obviously, except with Wade, but still the best.

The drop-off is vast, uuord.

It isn't as simple as "NBA Live" ratings. Sure, on "NBA Live" or on "2K" sports, the drop-off may not be vast.

In real life, the drop off is HUGE. In fact, the Lakers may not have beaten the Rockets and definitely not the Nuggets with Carter.

For one, Carter isn't a great playoff performer. He is OK, but not near Bryant's level. Remember that Bryant averaged 12 PPG in the 4th quarter for the WCF, which was the highest for any playoff player if I'm not mistaken.

Not only that, but he scored 18 points in the 4th for Game 1 to lead the Lakers back from deficit and hit HUGE shots down in Game 3 when it looked like a sure loss. Not to mention Game 5 (which I watched last week) where the Nuggets doubled Bryant on every play and Kobe passed it out of the double team every time and the Lakers got so many easy buckets in the paint. JVG and Mark Jackson noted this on multiple occasions (referring to Kobe as the greatest decoy ever even).

Would Carter do any of this? Nope. I think that is clear. He wouldn't command that attention to open up teammates and he wont produce 35/6 in the WCF to get the Lakers past the WCF.

Not to mention leadership qualities and work ethic. Carter doesn't possess either of these in mass amounts like Bryant.

For Example: Recently Ron Artest posted on Twitter how he was going to the Lakers facility at 6 to 6:30 so he would be the first one there. Kobe had been there since 5:30 already and Kobe lives an hour away.

Work ethic.

That simply drives a team and Bryant's mentality and even aura/persona drove a lot of Laker players and even Gasol (by own admission).

In the Finals, there is no way Carter achieves the historic feat of averaging the 30+/8+/5+ that was needed in the first 4 games to overcome 2 overtimes. Not to mention the attention that Bryant acquires helps the team so much. Carter (nor Iggy, nor Roy, nor Johnson) would help the Lakers win the NBA Finals...They would not even get past the WCF truthfully.

ARMIN12NBA
09-04-2009, 07:34 PM
he played single coverage on Howard and basically shut him down every game of the Finals.

Not according to the Lakers staff. In fact, the only time they said they single covered him was to start with and that was with Bynum.


Lamar Odom, as flaky as he can be, played very well in the playoffs.

He played well in the Utah series, but played badly after that in the Western Conference Finals.

Lamar averaged 8 PPG and 9 PPG on 48% shooting against Houston.
Lamar averaged 11 PPG and 9 PPG on 42% shooting against Denver.

Lamar was wildly inconsistent during the playoffs. In fact, most of the Lakers were except for Kobe, Pau, and Ariza.

Fisher- straight up awful.
Bynum- pretty bad, but he was at 70% so it wasn't necessarily his fault.
Farmar- horrible.
Vujacic- the worst. 0% shooting in the Finals.
Odom- extremely inconsistent with two bad series.
Brown- great, but rarely played
Walton- decent to below average

Kobe and Pau had to carry a ton of weight for this team. I hate when the likes of the uuord call this team straight up dominant from top to bottom last year. They WERE in the beginning of the season with a healthy Bynum and LO (both were unhealthy in the playoffs) and a fresh Fisher. In the playoffs, it was a different story because Fisher showed his age and both Bynum and LO had health issues. Their extremely good line-up from 1-8 became an extremely good line-up from 1-3 with the rest being wild cards.

Next year will clearly be different though with the implementation of Brown and a healthy Bynum, Odom, and the addition of Ron Artest. It will definitely be a more dominant line-up.

Vinny642
09-04-2009, 09:54 PM
I went Magic in 7, i think they get revenge.

iggypop123
09-04-2009, 10:00 PM
I don't even know why we do these anymore. There are too many Lakers fans for this too be unbiased.

lakers in 6 is somehow biased? its not like 80% said lakers sweep

Kakaroach
09-04-2009, 10:22 PM
Magic in 6.

theuuord
09-04-2009, 10:43 PM
The drop-off is vast, uuord.

It isn't as simple as "NBA Live" ratings. Sure, on "NBA Live" or on "2K" sports, the drop-off may not be vast.

Come on, dude. Nobody here is talking about video games. No reason to bring them in. It's insulting to the intelligence level of the conversation.


In real life, the drop off is HUGE. In fact, the Lakers may not have beaten the Rockets and definitely not the Nuggets with Carter.

For one, Carter isn't a great playoff performer. He is OK, but not near Bryant's level. Remember that Bryant averaged 12 PPG in the 4th quarter for the WCF, which was the highest for any playoff player if I'm not mistaken.

I don't know who lied to you, but Carter has always been a great playoff performer. 26-7-5 - although that's a basic representation - says more than enough. The only difference is that he's never had a great team around him - and even more importantly, a competent big man to defer to and play off. Bryant has had that in every serious playoff run of his career.


Not only that, but he scored 18 points in the 4th for Game 1 to lead the Lakers back from deficit and hit HUGE shots down in Game 3 when it looked like a sure loss. Not to mention Game 5 (which I watched last week) where the Nuggets doubled Bryant on every play and Kobe passed it out of the double team every time and the Lakers got so many easy buckets in the paint. JVG and Mark Jackson noted this on multiple occasions (referring to Kobe as the greatest decoy ever even).

So what you're saying is, a great shooting guard on a great team passes out of double teams. Great. Let me jot that down in my coaches notebook.


Would Carter do any of this? Nope. I think that is clear. He wouldn't command that attention to open up teammates and he wont produce 35/6 in the WCF to get the Lakers past the WCF.

If a guy like Carter, Roy, or Wade were on the Lakers, the attack the Lakers would take would likely change. Only Wade of those three would demand the same type of usage rate that Kobe had, and the other two would lead a more balanced attack without damaging the efficiency of the offense.


Not to mention leadership qualities and work ethic. Carter doesn't possess either of these in mass amounts like Bryant.

Bryant's work ethic is second to none in the league, and leadership qualities - again, we have to assess the value of these things. I'd argue that Carter, Roy, and Wade were all phenomenal leaders of their respective teams this season as well - they just didn't have a comparable unit surrounding them.


For Example: Recently Ron Artest posted on Twitter how he was going to the Lakers facility at 6 to 6:30 so he would be the first one there. Kobe had been there since 5:30 already and Kobe lives an hour away.

Work ethic.

That simply drives a team and Bryant's mentality and even aura/persona drove a lot of Laker players and even Gasol (by own admission).

Again, who was Kobe driving in 2005-2007, before Gasol got there?

Again, no one is questioning that he has a great work ethic. You're making a lot of statements without qualifying their actual value. What I'm doing is saying, they are valuable, but to what extent? Kobe being up at 5:30 in the gym is nice, I suppose, but there are other NBA players, college players, and high school players who do the same thing. I've played with similar guys in the lower levels. (I was one in high school.)
I'm not saying Kobe isn't valuable - he's the most valuable shooting guard in the NBA not named Wade, imo - but we have to fairly assess this value.


In the Finals, there is no way Carter achieves the historic feat of averaging the 30+/8+/5+ that was needed in the first 4 games to overcome 2 overtimes. Not to mention the attention that Bryant acquires helps the team so much. Carter (nor Iggy, nor Roy, nor Johnson) would help the Lakers win the NBA Finals...They would not even get past the WCF truthfully.

Carter and Roy also wouldn't take 28 shots a game shooting under 43% to try to get there. Like I said, if you had a guy that's not Kobe, the offense shifts to maintain the efficiency. It shifts less if it's Wade than the other guys, but Roy/Carter are more than efficient enough to offset the difference in skill level.



Not according to the Lakers staff. In fact, the only time they said they single covered him was to start with and that was with Bynum.

They can say whatever they want, but facts speak louder: Gasol kept Howard very much in check throughout the series, and more so the longer the series went.
Gasol single covered him on 38 possessions in game 5 and Howard didn't score one field goal in any of those possessions (0-4). They double-teamed him once in 71 total possessions he was in the game. During the Finals, Howard shot under 50 pct from the field despite taking 42 of his 43 FG attempts from the paint.
Gasol covered him on 58 possessions in game 4 and Howard scored 10 points (4-9, all in the paint, 2-8 from the line). There were 2 double-teams in 93 possessions.
Gasol covered Howard on 37 possessions in game 3 and Howard scored 5 points (1-2, 3-4). He was double-teamed 9 times on 80 possessions.
Gasol covered Howard on 68 possessions in game 2 and Howard scored 6 points (2-4, 2-2). He was double-teamed 17 times on 97 possessions.
And in Game 1, Gasol covered Howard on only 27 possessions and didn't allow a field goal.

Gasol absolutely dominated Howard defensively during the series.




Also, to respond to your PM: Stop being ridiculous. I don't hate any NBA player, least of all the most fundamentally sound (undoubtedly) and one of the most exciting shooting guards to watch ever. It's (again) insulting that you think I have a personal bias against any NBA player. Hell, my girlfriend is a huge Celtics fan and jokes that she thinks about breaking up with me because I defend Kobe Bryant when we're together. I feel no hatred against Kobe Bryant.
What I do have a problem with is fairy-tale fans of anyone - Lakers, Cavs, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, anyone. It just so happens that on PSD you get more Lakers fans with their heads in the clouds than anyone else, so that's who you see me arguing with.

If someone wanted to argue that Kobe was worse than anyone not named LeBron, Dwyane, or Chris, then I'd disagree with them, too (although I'd probably just leave them to the vulture Lakers fans here to chew them apart). I deal in value, and assessing it fairly, which I don't think many Lakers fans are able to do.

ChiSox219
09-05-2009, 07:26 PM
That mentality or not, the Lakers definitely would have won the Finals if they had Carter and not Kobe. They're still the best team in the NBA even with that switch.

I agree.

todu82
09-06-2009, 01:17 PM
Lakers in 6.

Raph12
09-06-2009, 01:37 PM
Come on, dude. Nobody here is talking about video games. No reason to bring them in. It's insulting to the intelligence level of the conversation.



I don't know who lied to you, but Carter has always been a great playoff performer. 26-7-5 - although that's a basic representation - says more than enough. The only difference is that he's never had a great team around him - and even more importantly, a competent big man to defer to and play off. Bryant has had that in every serious playoff run of his career.



So what you're saying is, a great shooting guard on a great team passes out of double teams. Great. Let me jot that down in my coaches notebook.



If a guy like Carter, Roy, or Wade were on the Lakers, the attack the Lakers would take would likely change. Only Wade of those three would demand the same type of usage rate that Kobe had, and the other two would lead a more balanced attack without damaging the efficiency of the offense.



Bryant's work ethic is second to none in the league, and leadership qualities - again, we have to assess the value of these things. I'd argue that Carter, Roy, and Wade were all phenomenal leaders of their respective teams this season as well - they just didn't have a comparable unit surrounding them.



Again, who was Kobe driving in 2005-2007, before Gasol got there?

Again, no one is questioning that he has a great work ethic. You're making a lot of statements without qualifying their actual value. What I'm doing is saying, they are valuable, but to what extent? Kobe being up at 5:30 in the gym is nice, I suppose, but there are other NBA players, college players, and high school players who do the same thing. I've played with similar guys in the lower levels. (I was one in high school.)
I'm not saying Kobe isn't valuable - he's the most valuable shooting guard in the NBA not named Wade, imo - but we have to fairly assess this value.



Carter and Roy also wouldn't take 28 shots a game shooting under 43% to try to get there. Like I said, if you had a guy that's not Kobe, the offense shifts to maintain the efficiency. It shifts less if it's Wade than the other guys, but Roy/Carter are more than efficient enough to offset the difference in skill level.



They can say whatever they want, but facts speak louder: Gasol kept Howard very much in check throughout the series, and more so the longer the series went.
Gasol single covered him on 38 possessions in game 5 and Howard didn't score one field goal in any of those possessions (0-4). They double-teamed him once in 71 total possessions he was in the game. During the Finals, Howard shot under 50 pct from the field despite taking 42 of his 43 FG attempts from the paint.
Gasol covered him on 58 possessions in game 4 and Howard scored 10 points (4-9, all in the paint, 2-8 from the line). There were 2 double-teams in 93 possessions.
Gasol covered Howard on 37 possessions in game 3 and Howard scored 5 points (1-2, 3-4). He was double-teamed 9 times on 80 possessions.
Gasol covered Howard on 68 possessions in game 2 and Howard scored 6 points (2-4, 2-2). He was double-teamed 17 times on 97 possessions.
And in Game 1, Gasol covered Howard on only 27 possessions and didn't allow a field goal.

Gasol absolutely dominated Howard defensively during the series.




Also, to respond to your PM: Stop being ridiculous. I don't hate any NBA player, least of all the most fundamentally sound (undoubtedly) and one of the most exciting shooting guards to watch ever. It's (again) insulting that you think I have a personal bias against any NBA player. Hell, my girlfriend is a huge Celtics fan and jokes that she thinks about breaking up with me because I defend Kobe Bryant when we're together. I feel no hatred against Kobe Bryant.
What I do have a problem with is fairy-tale fans of anyone - Lakers, Cavs, LeBron, Kobe, Wade, anyone. It just so happens that on PSD you get more Lakers fans with their heads in the clouds than anyone else, so that's who you see me arguing with.

If someone wanted to argue that Kobe was worse than anyone not named LeBron, Dwyane, or Chris, then I'd disagree with them, too (although I'd probably just leave them to the vulture Lakers fans here to chew them apart). I deal in value, and assessing it fairly, which I don't think many Lakers fans are able to do.

:clap: Not often I agree with everything someone says lol

BradHolt4CYoung
09-06-2009, 01:57 PM
I think Carter is better then Turk. But Turk fit the Magic. He played there offense. Carter attacks that hoop which will be tough to do with Howard down there. He also shoots the J not so much the 3. LA in 6.

theuuord
09-06-2009, 02:00 PM
I think Carter is better then Turk. But Turk fit the Magic. He played there offense. Carter attacks that hoop which will be tough to do with Howard down there. He also shoots the J not so much the 3. LA in 6.

Search "Stop this madness: The Hedo-Vince Edition."

Raph12
09-06-2009, 02:09 PM
I think Carter is better then Turk. But Turk fit the Magic. He played there offense. Carter attacks that hoop which will be tough to do with Howard down there. He also shoots the J not so much the 3. LA in 6.

Carter is often critisized for not attacking the rim enough and taking too many long jumpers/3s. Carter makes more 3s than Turk with better percentages, true it will take time to get the offense right, but they'll have 94+ games before the Finals so meshing shouldn't be too much of an issue.

lakerssssssss
09-07-2009, 01:34 AM
both lal and orl got better this offseason. However, jameer nelson did not play at full strength for orlando in the finals. THat being said, I would take the lakers in 6

Mave1002
09-07-2009, 02:22 AM
I chose the lakers in 6 but it could easily go either way.

You got doubts? i dont even think that they got better. if they did, it would be because of the sigining of Bass and Barnes. Reason why im hoping that LA sign Tony Gaffney, youth + braun.

Dhow
Lewis
VC
Pietrus
Nelson

Gortat
Bass
Barnes
Redick
Jwill

Foyle
R.Anderson
Johnson

VS

AB17
Pau
RonRon
Kobe
Fish

LO
T.Gaffney (instead of ammo)
Luke
Sasha
S.Brown

DJ
JP
Farmar

Lakers in 5 games. NO DOUBT

theimortalone
09-07-2009, 06:33 PM
I said Orlando in 7.

rapswin98
09-07-2009, 06:54 PM
Lakers Repeat in 6

Ebbs
09-08-2009, 05:21 PM
I dont think Lakers will be as hungry for it as the Magic. minus Artest.
I also think that Andrew Bynum, and Lamar Odom are overrated. while Rashard Lewis Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson are underated.

So Magic in 6

Lakersfan2483
09-09-2009, 12:38 AM
I dont think Lakers will be as hungry for it as the Magic. minus Artest.
I also think that Andrew Bynum, and Lamar Odom are overrated. while Rashard Lewis Vince Carter and Jameer Nelson are underated.

So Magic in 6

So LA (assuming they have homecourt again) will only beat Orlando twice? Wow. :speechless: