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View Full Version : Is Kobe Bryant the best difficult shot maker in league history?



TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 06:49 PM
i cant think of anyone right now that rivals kobe when it comes to making extremely difficult shots whether by slashing to the basket, twisting his body in mid air, double pump reverse dunks, making an off balance jumper with 2-3 defenders in his face, coupled with fantastic footwork... etc


is there anyone in league history better than kobe when it comes to making difficult shots? if so please do state his name...

theuuord
09-01-2009, 06:52 PM
I can't think of one off the top of my head except maybe MJ.

madiaz3
09-01-2009, 06:53 PM
no one short of jordan really compared to kobes ability to hit incredible shots

Raps08-09 Champ
09-01-2009, 06:53 PM
MJ can do all that.

djeller1139
09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
Once he does this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAdgxyC1ehA) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ra9ni9_C7A&feature=related)

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
MJ can do all that.

I dont think MJ has the ballhandling and footwork skills of MJ. He also doesnt have Kobe's range.

bal_ravens
09-01-2009, 06:56 PM
Yeah Michael Jordan has done just as much and more.

madiaz3
09-01-2009, 06:56 PM
my favorite most impactful regular season shot this season

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t06Iz-6oYU

Raps08-09 Champ
09-01-2009, 06:57 PM
I dont think MJ has the ballhandling and footwork skills of MJ. He also doesnt have Kobe's range.

There are also things that MJ has done that Kobe hasn't yet.

It's about balancing out.

MJ is also pretty good at ball handling.

Raps08-09 Champ
09-01-2009, 06:57 PM
You people are forgetting Bargnani and Bynum.

Chronz
09-01-2009, 06:57 PM
Nique threw up some of the dumbest shots Ive ever seen a slasher take, yet he shoots a high %. I dont see him hit many of them but Ive only seen like maybe 10% of his games throughout his career. If the guys attempting hard as flip shots in the paint, and shooting a high% I can only assume hes making a few of them.

Nash has hit some absurdly tough shots over his career. Tmac and Vince in their heyday shot from distance almost effortlessly, but Tmac developed a horrible habit of taking contested jumpers in 03-04, before then it wasnt as bad but as his athletic ability waned he wasnt able to maintain his efficiency.

I saw this mix the other day where it showed all of Tmac facial j's and I wonder if it all got to his head.

Shahrose
09-01-2009, 06:57 PM
why are the options one sided?
absolutely and Not even close

there should be a: hes one of the best option
or something of the sort

theuuord
09-01-2009, 06:58 PM
I dont think MJ has the ballhandling and footwork skills of MJ. He also doesnt have Kobe's range.

I think it's pretty obvious that MJ has the footwork and ballhandling of himself, honestly.

theuuord
09-01-2009, 06:58 PM
Nique threw up some of the dumbest shots Ive ever seen a slasher take, yet he shoots a high %. I dont see him hit many of them but Ive only seen like maybe 10% of his games throughout his career. If the guys attempting hard as flip shots in the paint, and shooting a high% I can only assume hes making a few of them.

Nash has hit some absurdly tough shots over his career. Tmac and Vince in their heyday shot from distance almost effortlessly, but Tmac developed a horrible habit of taking contested jumpers in 03-04, before then it wasnt as bad but as his athletic ability waned he wasnt able to maintain his efficiency.

I saw this mix the other day where it showed all of Tmac facial j's and I wonder if it all got to his head.

Yeah Vince is another good one, T-Mac too.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 07:01 PM
agree, i think a healthy tmac would've rivaled kobe easily, sad how injuries destroys his career.

Chronz
09-01-2009, 07:04 PM
Yeah Vince is another good one, T-Mac too.

I always hated playing against guys who did that to me, just chucked in my grill, even if I couldnt contest it, why wouldnt you just get closer to the rim take the same shot, and make more of them?

madiaz3
09-01-2009, 07:04 PM
I always hated playing against guys who did that to me, just chucked in my grill, even if I couldnt contest it, why wouldnt you just get closer to the rim take the same shot, and make more of them?

demoralizes you while they play even harder

TheMicrowave
09-01-2009, 07:11 PM
There are also things that MJ has done that Kobe hasn't yet.

It's about balancing out.

MJ is also pretty good at ball handling.

The thread is about making difficult shots, not about the comparison between MJ and Kobe (there is really no comparison).

IMO Kobe makes the most difficult shots, I have never seen anything like it. He does it on a regular basis.

Recent guys that are similar
Pierce (Prime)
VC (Prime)
T-Mac (Prime)
MJ
Reggie Miller
AI

mrtrey1992
09-01-2009, 07:11 PM
one of the best i can't tell u who is

showtym24
09-01-2009, 07:13 PM
Yes, kobe has made shots ive never seen anyone make.

Draco
09-01-2009, 07:15 PM
Off the top of my head... MJ and Bird.

KG2TB
09-01-2009, 07:15 PM
It's impossible to really say. He definitely deserves to be mentioned though. Off the top of my head, MJ, VC, T-Mac in his day, AI, Ben Gordon, hell...LeBron is great at making difficult shots too. C'mon...step back shots from half court?!? All the above are pretty much unguardable and can drain some ridiculous shots when they're on. As for consistency, that's another story. MJ routinely got double and triple teamed and made extremely tough shots night in and night out, as does Kobe. All in all, he's up there when it comes to making difficult shots.

Draco
09-01-2009, 07:20 PM
After conducting some rigorous research I've determined that MJ and Bird were indeed the most difficult shot makers in league history.

I've posted my findings here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oACRt-Qp-s)

ManRam
09-01-2009, 07:22 PM
Poll options are stupid. I don't think it's "absolutely" or "not even close". He's one of the best, but I don't think he is clearly the best.

montazingmvp
09-01-2009, 07:26 PM
let me know when kobe does this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT2H_2_1Lro


or any of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT-w8wvr6-8

then we'll talk...


did you ever even watch mj...?

ws7L
09-01-2009, 07:40 PM
these are nice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxOG678BA5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0qMZJE3Xk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4GJHhdl9kc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG37xsOOvG8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vukMoNEtkBQ

:)

FNM BOY
09-01-2009, 07:40 PM
I don't know why Kobe lovers always try to find a way to try and make him the greatest ever.....he will never come close to MJ!!!

GeneWaldron#5
09-01-2009, 07:41 PM
Yeah he's up there but there are a number of others that have already been mentioned who are in the same bracket as Kobe.


let me know when kobe does this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT2H_2_1Lro


or any of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT-w8wvr6-8

then we'll talk...


did you ever even watch mj...?

The last clip on that second video is one of the most amazing plays I've ever seen.

montazingmvp
09-01-2009, 07:44 PM
Yeah he's up there but there are a number of others that have already been mentioned who are in the same bracket as Kobe.



The last clip on that second video is one of the most amazing plays I've ever seen.

i know its unreal. he manuevers three times in the air...never seen that before

Toenail Clipper
09-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Yes he is one of the best.
Click here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdcDbcZ5eg

and by the way, it's no travel

JordansBulls
09-01-2009, 07:52 PM
He is one of the best, but a lot of it has to do with his shot selection and how he decides to shoot. He simply makes it difficult on himself.

montazingmvp
09-01-2009, 07:52 PM
Yes he is one of the best.
Click here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdcDbcZ5eg

and by the way, it's no travel

funny thing being that is a travel.

he picks up his pivot foot...do you know what a travel is?

lol

MTar786
09-01-2009, 07:56 PM
there's no doubt in my mind that kobe is the Best most difficult shot taker in history. everytime i watch a laker game kobe takes one of the dumbest shots n im like nooooo idiot and they go in.. then im like oh wait nm.. its kobe

montazingmvp
09-01-2009, 07:57 PM
there's no doubt in my mind that kobe is the Best most difficult shot taker in history. everytime i watch a laker game kobe takes one of the dumbest shots n im like nooooo idiot and they go in.. then im like oh wait nm.. its kobe

and you can determine this because you've watched every player to ever play basketball..?

uh huh...

MTar786
09-01-2009, 07:58 PM
He is one of the best, but a lot of it has to do with his shot selection and how he decides to shoot. He simply makes it difficult on himself.

i agree.. except i dont feel he's one of the best. he is THE best. but i do think that those shots he takes arent the msartest of shots to take. when he stops making them il start complaining tho

montazingmvp
09-01-2009, 08:00 PM
i actually think there are players in the nba right now who make just as difficult if not more difficult shots than kobe...not sure who does it at a better rate, but thats near impossible to determine.

jr smith, vince carter come to mind.

29$JerZ
09-01-2009, 08:01 PM
I think Wade is on par when making difficult shots compared to Kobe

Reversed86Curse
09-01-2009, 08:08 PM
Kobe's good, but MJ was amazing, so no comparison

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 08:15 PM
i actually think there are players in the nba right now who make just as difficult if not more difficult shots than kobe...not sure who does it at a better rate, but thats near impossible to determine.

jr smith, vince carter come to mind.

No one in the nba TODAY comes close to have the ability to make as tough as shots as Kobe. VC is great and clutch, but not as great as Kobe. Wade is also another one.

In terms of history, I have to say Kobe is the best difficult shot maker via the jumper.

Jordan is however the greatest player to make tough shots in the paint. No argument there.

J$mo0th_3o5
09-01-2009, 08:15 PM
I think Wade is on par when making difficult shots compared to Kobe

You read my mind. How many times have you seen Wade throw up some ridiculous shots and make them....

madiaz3
09-01-2009, 08:19 PM
Kobe's are just ridiculous in so many ways, ridiuclous layups but just as many ridiculous threes, more notably his left handed one vs the mavs and all the bail out buzzer threes.

ewing
09-01-2009, 08:20 PM
I think Manu is the next best in the NBA right now. VC might had made as many impossible shots in his prime. When Isiah was on fire he'd score by accident but that was when he was on fire. Bird also comes to mind as a degree of difficulty shot maker

ctitus45
09-01-2009, 08:22 PM
MJ, Dr. J, Kobe, Wade, Reggie, Tony Parker, Nash, Baron Davis, Dominique, Dirk, LeBron, Vince, TMac, AI, Larry Bird, Kareem....they all do it. there is no clear cut favorite. Everyone makes difficult shots...i could keep on going but if you're one of the NBA's best present or past, you make difficult shots. it's part of being in the NBA...each difficult shot is it's own.

KG2TB
09-01-2009, 08:24 PM
i agree.. except i dont feel he's one of the best. he is THE best. but i do think that those shots he takes arent the msartest of shots to take. when he stops making them il start complaining tho

Well considering he's a career 45% shooter and never shot above 46% maybe you SHOULD start complaining. He can make unbelievable shots but he may settle for them a little too much.

ARMIN12NBA
09-01-2009, 08:28 PM
A lot of youngins on this website. Of course, they will say Michael Jordan because of the legend.

Watch Jordan play. The dude nearly always took extremely efficient and/or common shots. He was simply the best at getting those extremely high percentage shots...Whether it be near the rim or a great look in the mid-range. He hardly ever took difficult shots to begin with.

Now, while Kobe is also very good at getting to great spots, he has taken more difficult shots in his days and has made some ridiculously amazing shots...Shots that I'm not sure Jordan would make (merely because he didn't take them).

ARMIN12NBA
09-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Well considering he's a career 45% shooter and never shot above 46% maybe you SHOULD start complaining. He can make unbelievable shots but he may settle for them a little too much.

He has shot above 46%. He shot 47% last season.

BTW--Those shooting percentages are above average for his position. He is doing fine.

LA_Raiders
09-01-2009, 08:30 PM
Who Else???

MackSnackWrap
09-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Yeah, but maybe Mjs better not sure

asandhu23
09-01-2009, 08:35 PM
I dont think MJ has the ballhandling and footwork skills of MJ. He also doesnt have Kobe's range.

:facepalm:.....uh yeah no one noticed that? .......... btw Wilt had crazy shots too. i would put him in the conversation also. also put Dr J

blastmasta26
09-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Kobe's not the best difficult shot maker. He's incredible, but there are a lot of other great players who can also make very difficult shots. Kobe just takes them more often than other players of similar skill, which could make him seem like the best.

Mave1002
09-01-2009, 08:43 PM
His airness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEjcVPrOIcQ&feature=related

theuuord
09-01-2009, 08:45 PM
:facepalm:.....uh yeah no one noticed that? .......... btw Wilt had crazy shots too. i would put him in the conversation also. also put Dr J

first page dude.

Paulliwali
09-01-2009, 08:45 PM
T-mac without injuries can be a difficult shot maker. High vertical and very good 3-pointer

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 08:47 PM
Unguardable. Look how many people jumped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu7tdrAfJms

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 08:53 PM
Kobe's not the best difficult shot maker. He's incredible, but there are a lot of other great players who can also make very difficult shots. Kobe just takes them more often than other players of similar skill, which could make him seem like the best.

yes, but kobe does it more regularly than others. kobe's a true definition of a human highlight film. not a big fan of his game though but id give him credit when it comes to flair. kobe's a cut above the rest.

IBleedPurple
09-01-2009, 08:55 PM
Minus Laker fans, and Kobe probably gets a no

I'd say MJ definitely

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 08:58 PM
to each his own, mj is obviously the better player but kobe imo still makes the most insane shot at a higher rate than jordan. jordan's best move imo was when he drove to the basket and there were 3 nets players that tried to blocked him but compared to kobe's move against dallas and spurs where he was behind the board for a reverse layup, i think bias aside people would find kobe's move harder to finish.



i think kobe can easily average 48-50% fg even in todays standards. he does seem to take all these ridiculous shots for highlight purposes which hurts his percentage.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:04 PM
You people are some basketball noobs. Too many 10 year olds that have only seen Kobe play.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins hands down. No one could shoot a better hook shot.

As far as Kobe and MJ go, for the first time EVER on this website, I saw a Kobe fan be somewhat honest.

Kobe may be the best at hitting jump shots, but NO one could finish a more difficult shot than Jordan in the paint, especially when driving. Michael Jordan had the BEST ball control while in mid-air EVER. Phil Jackson's (he's the only one to coach both) interview will tell you that. He praises MJ's bigger hands plenty of times. Ball control in mid-air is how you make the most difficult shots in traffic.

This Kobe-love is getting ridiculous.

ericjrosenberg
09-01-2009, 09:05 PM
I am sorry to be the one to do this. But is everyone on this site a teenager? First Kobe is an incredable player but when I think of amazing shots. I think of amazing shots that win games. How many great game winning shots has Kobe made. I cannot think of too many.

The list goes like this:

1. Larry Bird
2. MJ
3. Magic

SteveNash
09-01-2009, 09:09 PM
I am sorry to be the one to do this. But is everyone on this site a teenager? First Kobe is an incredable player but when I think of amazing shots. I think of amazing shots that win games. How many great game winning shots has Kobe made. I cannot think of too many.

The list goes like this:

1. Larry Bird
2. MJ
3. Magic

Kobe has about 30 game winners.

And I'm sure all players that play 10 years and score over 10,000 points have hit numerous difficult shots.

what54!?
09-01-2009, 09:12 PM
Naw I still give that title to MJ

madiaz3
09-01-2009, 09:12 PM
I am sorry to be the one to do this. But is everyone on this site a teenager? First Kobe is an incredable player but when I think of amazing shots. I think of amazing shots that win games. How many great game winning shots has Kobe made. I cannot think of too many.

The list goes like this:

1. Larry Bird
2. MJ
3. Magic

Kobe has at least 27 I think.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:13 PM
You people are some basketball noobs. Too many 10 year olds that have only seen Kobe play.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wins hands down. No one could shoot a better hook shot.

As far as Kobe and MJ go, for the first time EVER on this website, I saw a Kobe fan be somewhat honest.

Kobe may be the best at hitting jump shots, but NO one could finish a more difficult shot than Jordan in the paint, especially when driving. Michael Jordan had the BEST ball control while in mid-air EVER. Phil Jackson's (he's the only one to coach both) interview will tell you that. He praises MJ's bigger hands plenty of times. Ball control in mid-air is how you make the most difficult shots in traffic.

This Kobe-love is getting ridiculous.

you're speaking of someone who doesnt have knowledge and is just going by references by various posters. i mean if we're going by what phil jackson has to say, phil also said that kobe is a better shooter and did more on the court than mj. so does it mean now that kobe is better than jordan? of course not.


ive seen jordan at his best (late 80's) and followed him until he retired as a wizard.


kobe's degree of difficulty is harder than jordan's.

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 09:14 PM
I am sorry to be the one to do this. But is everyone on this site a teenager? First Kobe is an incredable player but when I think of amazing shots. I think of amazing shots that win games. How many great game winning shots has Kobe made. I cannot think of too many.

The list goes like this:

1. Larry Bird
2. MJ
3. Magic

Does the title read most clutch? No it doesn't, its asking who is the best difficult shot maker in league history. Bird may have been clutch, but Kobe has clearly better at making difficult shots.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:19 PM
you're speaking of someone who doesnt have knowledge and is just going by references by various posters. i mean if we're going by what phil jackson has to say, phil also said that kobe is a better shooter and did more on the court than mj. so does it mean now that kobe is better than jordan? of course not.


ive seen jordan at his best (late 80's) and followed him until he retired as a wizard.


kobe's degree of difficulty is harder than jordan's.

I've seen all of Jordan's years, and all of Kobe's years.

Kobe's degree of difficulty is easier than Jordan's.

Seriously, search up Phil Jackson's two interviews. He compared Jordan to Kobe. He almost cries in pleasure when describing Jordan's hands, and how his body frame + big hands allowed him to make much more tougher shots especially after contact in mid-air.

"Ohhhhhhh those handssssss! oh my god!"

Draco
09-01-2009, 09:22 PM
A lot of youngins on this website. Of course, they will say Michael Jordan because of the legend.

Watch Jordan play. The dude nearly always took extremely efficient and/or common shots. He was simply the best at getting those extremely high percentage shots...Whether it be near the rim or a great look in the mid-range. He hardly ever took difficult shots to begin with.

Now, while Kobe is also very good at getting to great spots, he has taken more difficult shots in his days and has made some ridiculously amazing shots...Shots that I'm not sure Jordan would make (merely because he didn't take them).

Uh no.. Of course Jordan attempted and made a large number of normal level of difficulty shots.. but he was also the king at making circus shots around the rim... he did whatever it took to get the ball in the hoop. Whether the defense made it easy or hard for him to do that. Hell, he was also the king of taking up the gauntlet.. and when he heard he was questioned about his ability to make 3 pointers by Drexler.. he nailed somewhere around 6 of them in the first half of one his Finals games. Kobe is a differen't league.. but it's not a better one.

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 09:24 PM
I've seen all of Jordan's years, and all of Kobe's years.

Kobe's degree of difficulty is easier than Jordan's.

Seriously, search up Phil Jackson's two interviews. He compared Jordan to Kobe. He almost cries in pleasure when describing Jordan's hands, and how his body frame + big hands allowed him to make much more tougher shots especially after contact in mid-air.

"Ohhhhhhh those handssssss! oh my god!"

Jordan was the best at finding the best angle and shoot the most efficient shots in the history of the NBA. Jordan was so clever that he maneuvered his defender onto the oncoming defender and would go up. As I said earlier, Jordan is the best at scoring difficult shots in the pain, HANDS DOWN, largely due to his "mits" as Phil says, but Kobe is clearly the better shot maker via the jumper.

ARMIN12NBA
09-01-2009, 09:25 PM
Uh no.. Of course Jordan attempted and made a large number of normal level of difficulty shots.. but he was also the king at making circus shots around the rim... he did whatever it took to get the ball in the hoop. Whether the defense made it easy or hard for him to do that. Kobe is a differen't league.. but it's not a better one.

I agree with circus shots around the rim, but I am thinking more in terms of those crazy turnaround fade-ways or ridiculous angles shots. Jordan was efficient because he mostly shot high percentage shots near the paint (great post player as well for a guard) and shot a lot of mid-range jumpers.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:26 PM
I've seen all of Jordan's years, and all of Kobe's years.

Kobe's degree of difficulty is easier than Jordan's.

Seriously, search up Phil Jackson's two interviews. He compared Jordan to Kobe. He almost cries in pleasure when describing Jordan's hands, and how his body frame + big hands allowed him to make much more tougher shots especially after contact in mid-air.

"Ohhhhhhh those handssssss! oh my god!"

i know all about it. jordan's bigger hands allowed him to be a better defender and a better finisher. however, jordan's huge mitts didnt made kobe's shot less specatacular than jordan's.

ericjrosenberg
09-01-2009, 09:27 PM
How many playoff game winners does Kobe have?

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:28 PM
he nailed somewhere around 6 of them in the first half of one his Finals games.

kobe made 13 three pointers in a game.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:28 PM
To add to that, I'm just tired of these pointless threads that are created in an attempt to make Kobe seem like he was the best ever.

Sorry to bust this thread, and I don't normally post a lot, but to the maker:

Difficult shot is RELATIVE. What is a difficult shot to me might not be one for Billy. Or for Bob.

Some think difficult shots are ones at halfcourt. (Sorry, not Kobe)

Some think difficult shots are ones before halfcourt. (Sorry, not Kobe)

Some think difficult shots are ones where the player isn't facing the rim.

Some think difficult shots are buzzer beaters under an enormous amount of pressure.

Some think difficult shots are when the player has to make adjustments in mid-air.

Some think difficult shots are when players make an ENORMOUS amount of body count and still able to get it in the net. (Sorry, not Kobe. MJ was better at this, hell, even Lebron is)

So you see, this thread is pointless. There are plenty more scenarios where people will believe it is a difficult shot. So you have to break it down into different categories:

Is Kobe the best ever at making clutch shots? Arguably.
Is Kobe the best ever at making halfcourt shots? NO.

Draco
09-01-2009, 09:30 PM
I agree with circus shots around the rim, but I am thinking more in terms of those crazy turnaround fade-ways or ridiculous angles shots. Jordan was efficient because he mostly shot high percentage shots near the paint (great post player as well for a guard) and shot a lot of mid-range jumpers.

Fade-aways were Jordan's specialty in the second half of his career. As indefensible as Jabar's skyhook.

Draco
09-01-2009, 09:31 PM
kobe made 13 three pointers in a game.

Good for Kobe.. the point being that Jordan was able to hit the 3. He choose to make his bread and butter inside the 3-point line. Kobe isn't the "best difficult shot maker" simply because he jacks up a lot of long range shots.

ws7L
09-01-2009, 09:33 PM
To add to that, I'm just tired of these pointless threads that are created in an attempt to make Kobe seem like he was the best ever.

Sorry to bust this thread, and I don't normally post a lot, but to the maker:

Difficult shot is RELATIVE. What is a difficult shot to me might not be one for Billy. Or for Bob.

Some think difficult shots are ones at halfcourt. (Sorry, not Kobe)

Some think difficult shots are ones before halfcourt. (Sorry, not Kobe)

Some think difficult shots are ones where the player isn't facing the rim.

Some think difficult shots are buzzer beaters under an enormous amount of pressure.

Some think difficult shots are when the player has to make adjustments in mid-air.

Some think difficult shots are when players make an ENORMOUS amount of body count and still able to get it in the net. (Sorry, not Kobe. MJ was better at this, hell, even Lebron is)

So you see, this thread is pointless. There are plenty more scenarios where people will believe it is a difficult shot. So you have to break it down into different categories:

Is Kobe the best ever at making clutch shots? Arguably.
Is Kobe the best ever at making halfcourt shots? NO.

calm down. its just a thread about making difficult shots

lol

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:33 PM
How many playoff game winners does Kobe have?
thread is not about that :facepalm:

Good for Kobe.. the point being that Jordan was able to hit the 3. He choose to make his bread and butter inside the 3-point line. Kobe isn't the "best difficult shot maker" simply because he jacks up a lot of long range shots.

the amount of he shots he took has nothing to do with his ability to finish shots at a higher degree of difficulty than others.


he makes them. all that matters.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:34 PM
When it came to mid range, I don't see how anyone could argue against Kareem being the most difficult shot maker.

Noobs galore.

D Roses Bulls
09-01-2009, 09:34 PM
how many lakers fans voted i swear. and i guess most of you dont remember MJ or arnt old enough to remember i guess. MJ hands down the best.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:35 PM
To add to that, I'm just tired of these pointless threads that are created in an attempt to make Kobe seem like he was the best ever.

Sorry to bust this thread, and I don't normally post a lot, but to the maker:

Difficult shot is RELATIVE. What is a difficult shot to me might not be one for Billy. Or for Bob.

Some think difficult shots are ones at halfcourt. (Sorry, not Kobe)

Some think difficult shots are ones before halfcourt. (Sorry, not Kobe)

Some think difficult shots are ones where the player isn't facing the rim.

Some think difficult shots are buzzer beaters under an enormous amount of pressure.

Some think difficult shots are when the player has to make adjustments in mid-air.

Some think difficult shots are when players make an ENORMOUS amount of body count and still able to get it in the net. (Sorry, not Kobe. MJ was better at this, hell, even Lebron is)

So you see, this thread is pointless. There are plenty more scenarios where people will believe it is a difficult shot. So you have to break it down into different categories:

Is Kobe the best ever at making clutch shots? Arguably.
Is Kobe the best ever at making halfcourt shots? NO.



have some sense of argument bro. its the offseason. we're all just sharing opinions.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:35 PM
Oh I'm good, dude. I just have a thing against stupidity.;)

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:35 PM
how many lakers fans voted i swear. and i guess most of you dont remember MJ or arnt old enough to remember i guess. MJ hands down the best.

ive started watching mj in 88 up to 2002.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:36 PM
Oh I'm good, dude. I just have a thing against stupidity.;)

you cant view them as stupid just because they dont agree with your point of view.

ws7L
09-01-2009, 09:36 PM
Oh I'm good, dude. I just have a thing against stupidity.;)

then you must be stupid too. its just peoples opinion in here

championships
09-01-2009, 09:36 PM
I know Kobe is up there. The Captain perfected the hook, Which you don't see anyone do on a regular basis. Dr. J made some pretty incredible shots too.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 09:37 PM
I know Kobe is up there. The Captain perfected the hook, Which you don't see anyone do on a regular basis. Dr. J made some pretty incredible shots too.

hook shot was pretty hard, i mean even in todays standards no big man uses it in a regular basis. dr. j is overrated though.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:39 PM
As far as arguing, I put it in the most simplistic way I thought for Kobe lovers to understand. It won't get anywhere.

This thread could go on for 2 years, though. So can the Lebron vs. Kobe threads.

What do you all think about Kareem? I haven't heard anyone claim that Kobe was a better difficult shot maker than Kareem (even though it's not a specific claim).

I guess answering that question will separate the Kobe slurpers from the real people, lol.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:42 PM
then you must be stupid too. its just peoples opinion in here

People have stupid opinions. Maybe you'll learn that once you hit puberty, chief.

Boomerkid33
09-01-2009, 09:44 PM
the best bad shot taker in the history of the nba is undoubtably vince carter, twisting his body in the air, shooting with his back to the rim, he has done it all, in no way do i think he is better than kobe by anymeans... but he takes the worst shots i have ever seen... and makes them

championships
09-01-2009, 09:44 PM
As far as arguing, I put it in the most simplistic way I thought for Kobe lovers to understand. It won't get anywhere.

This thread could go on for 2 years, though. So can the Lebron vs. Kobe threads.

What do you all think about Kareem? I haven't heard anyone claim that Kobe was a better difficult shot maker than Kareem (even though it's not a specific claim).

I guess answering that question will separate the Kobe slurpers from the real people, lol.

Whats with all this animosity towards Kobe. Was that your sister he banged in Colorado. I know he doesn't owe her any more money.

UK Ivy
09-01-2009, 09:45 PM
as I know this is extremely early and yes it may be a homer pick but Derrick Rose has some of the sickest slashing manuvers ive seen. I remember playing him in High School as a Sophmore and he basically threw the ball from his foot whilst falling in the opposite direction and he made that shot twice. His slashing circus shot are definitely a sight for sore eyes.

championships
09-01-2009, 09:48 PM
How about Me. I have made some sik H.O.R.S.E. shots.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:48 PM
Whats with all this animosity towards Kobe. Was that your sister he banged in Colorado. I know he doesn't owe her any more money.

I love Kobe, and I wish he did bang my sister and get her pregnant.

You're being lame.

To the guy that made this thread:

Some may think that playoff game winners are the most difficult shots? What kind of difficult shot are you talking about? That'll clear it up some.

ws7L
09-01-2009, 09:48 PM
People have stupid opinions. Maybe you'll learn that once you hit puberty, chief.

just because you say so? you opinion isn't any smarter than anybodys here. your just another shmuck sitting behind a monitor who thinks he knows it all

ws7L
09-01-2009, 09:51 PM
I love Kobe, and I wish he did bang my sister and get her pregnant.

You're being lame.

To the guy that made this thread:

Some may think that playoff game winners are the most difficult shots? What kind of difficult shot are you talking about? That'll clear it up some.

how hard is that to comprehend? difficult shots you dumbass

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:52 PM
just because you say so? you opinion isn't any smarter than anybodys here. your just another shmuck sitting behind a monitor who thinks he knows it all

Eh, l2conflict. At least the other guy attempted some lame insult.

Anyway, since the thread isn't about me or about my sister (lol), I will ask yet again. Is Kobe a better difficult shot maker than Kareem?

?

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:53 PM
how hard is that to comprehend? difficult shots you dumbass

Then Kareem made far more difficult shots than anyone ever.

Are you in the second grade? Let's hear your opinion on it then, champ. Kobe or Kareem? Slurper or Real?

ws7L
09-01-2009, 09:56 PM
sky hook is just the same shot over and over again. yes its a difficult shot, but he,s perfected it to where it wasn't that difficult for him.

a 3 pointer with 2, 3 defenders in your face, much harder. my opinion you don't have to agree with it. or should i just start calling you stupid cause we disagree like you do

championships
09-01-2009, 09:58 PM
Kareem perfected one difficult shot, That no one before him did and no one since. Kobes footwork to create a shot is far superior plus he can hang in the air and drop an amazing circus shot. I love'em both. You pick!

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 09:59 PM
sky hook is just the same shot over and over again. yes its a difficult shot, but he,s perfected it to where it wasn't that difficult for him.

a 3 pointer with 2, 3 defenders in your face, much harder. my opinion you don't have to agree with it. or should i just start calling you stupid cause we disagree like you do

Kobe has mastered the fadeaway. He has perfected being able to shoot with defenders all in his face. That's why he's so freakin' amazing. It's not that difficult for Kobe.

So what if it's the same hook shot? It's difficult.

So what point are you trying to make exactly? SLURP SLURP

Dude, don't take all of it so personally. Same to everyone else. I'm here to argue, and I'm rough with it.

Red222
09-01-2009, 10:02 PM
jordan:eyebrow:

ws7L
09-01-2009, 10:06 PM
yeah but being over 7 foot and closer to the basket like he was. i don't think that hook shot was all that difficult for him.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:07 PM
Let me break it down.

If you're going to be the best difficult shot maker, you have to hit difficult shots consistently.

You can't be the best difficult shot maker just because you made one full-court shot, or had your back turned and saved a ball from out-of-bounds and made it in the net one time(that was pretty awesome).

You have to make difficult shots consistently, and no one did it better than Kareem. It doesn't matter if he mastered it or not. Just like it doesn't matter how many MORE difficult shots Kobe took than Jordan.

I don't think it's hard to understand, and if I'm wrong or my opinion isn't reasonable, at least have a logical opinion and post it. Screaming about how it's your opinion and it can't possibly be unreasonable while covering your ears won't get you far.

That's all I'm saying, man. Nothing personal.

roshan3ai
09-01-2009, 10:07 PM
I dont think MJ has the ballhandling and footwork skills of MJ. He also doesnt have Kobe's range.

what?

ws7L
09-01-2009, 10:08 PM
and kobe can shoot the fadeaway, but i seriously doubt he's mastered the 3pt fadeaway with 2/3 guys in his grill while falling out of bounds

floridian321
09-01-2009, 10:09 PM
My vote goes to MJ.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT-w8wvr6-8

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:12 PM
Kareem made a LOT of hook shots plenty of distance away from the basket. And there are hundreds of 7 footers in the history of the game who could never do what he did.

My vote would be:

1. Kareem.
2. MJ.

Off the top of my head, Kobe would be 3 though I've never seen much of the really really old players (50's and 60's).

ws7L
09-01-2009, 10:12 PM
Let me break it down.

If you're going to be the best difficult shot maker, you have to hit difficult shots consistently.

You can't be the best difficult shot maker just because you made one full-court shot, or had your back turned and saved a ball from out-of-bounds and made it in the net one time(that was pretty awesome).

You have to make difficult shots consistently, and no one did it better than Kareem. It doesn't matter if he mastered it or not. Just like it doesn't matter how many MORE difficult shots Kobe took than Jordan.

I don't think it's hard to understand, and if I'm wrong or my opinion isn't reasonable, at least have a logical opinion and post it. Screaming about how it's your opinion and it can't possibly be unreasonable while covering your ears won't get you far.

That's all I'm saying, man. Nothing personal.

isn't what i was saying in the first place. i actually didn't say nothing on the topic at first. i just said its peoples opinions

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:17 PM
Ws7L,

I tried to clarify what kind of difficult shots and here's what you posted:

"is it hard to comprehend? difficult shots dumbass"

So I posted a reminder about Kareem and his hook shot being difficult, then you start bringing up how he perfected it and everything and it wasn't difficult for HIM, + he's 7 foot tall.

You're contradicting yourself. Explain that, please? Just be real, man. Don't know why people have a hard time with it.

My favorite player is Kevin Garnett but I would never try to make it seem like he's the best at stuff he isn't.

ws7L
09-01-2009, 10:22 PM
obviously, i meant the hook shot in general is difficult... because most basketball players don't practice it.

Kareem perfected it. you think a mid-range hook shot is difficult for a guy like kareem. lol, get real

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-01-2009, 10:22 PM
Kobe is pretty good at making some tough shots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuuYyUQEs14

These are pretty tough also...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEyERGtRuo0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u7xSy0oP5E

DODGERS&LAKERS
09-01-2009, 10:27 PM
let me know when kobe does this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT2H_2_1Lro


or any of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT-w8wvr6-8

then we'll talk...


did you ever even watch mj...?

Is it me, or did MJ always have a slow footed white guy guarding him one on one? More than half of those highlights, that was the case

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:29 PM
obviously, i meant the hook shot in general is difficult... because most basketball players don't practice it.

Kareem perfected it. you think a mid-range hook shot is difficult for a guy like kareem. lol, get real

Dude, the thread is about a difficult shot to EVERYONE. Also, why haven't you answered Kareem or Kobe? It's as if you're indirectly trying to claim Kobe is a better difficult shot maker, but not saying it.

Blocking shots is easy for Dwight Howard. Does that mean he isn't currently the best shot blocker playing now?

I am laughing right now, because you're reaching. Reminds me of the man that said in his opinion, earth is flat despite being shown photos. He took it to his grave, lol.

And yes, Kobe is awesome at making difficult shots.

Draco
09-01-2009, 10:30 PM
Is it me, or did MJ always have a slow footed white guy guarding him one on one? More than half of those highlights, that was the case

Just you.

Draco
09-01-2009, 10:34 PM
Kobe against some slow footed white guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hnhcCIPniM

ws7L
09-01-2009, 10:36 PM
Dude, the thread is about a difficult shot to EVERYONE. Also, why haven't you answered Kareem or Kobe? It's as if you're indirectly trying to claim Kobe is a better difficult shot maker, but not saying it.

Blocking shots is easy for Dwight Howard. Does that mean he isn't currently the best shot blocker playing now?

I am laughing right now, because you're reaching. Reminds me of the man that said in his opinion, earth is flat despite being shown photos. He took it to his grave, lol.

And yes, Kobe is awesome at making difficult shots.

yes Kobe is better then Kareem at making more difficult shots. Happy now? you couldn't just figure that out by reading my posts?

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 10:39 PM
Is it me, or did MJ always have a slow footed white guy guarding him one on one? More than half of those highlights, that was the case

They are. Not to be arrogant, but were there any good perimeter defensive specialists like Bowen, Posey, Battieri in the 90s?

Hawkeye15
09-01-2009, 10:40 PM
Jordan and Bird hit some incredibly tough shots

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:44 PM
Of course I could, I'm just breaking you down cause you're acting timid.

Why do you feel Kobe is a better difficult shot maker than Kareem?

Don't say because Kareem's shot isn't difficult for him.

The best rebounder ever is the best because it was easy for him.

The best scorer ever is the best because it was easy for him.

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 10:47 PM
Of course I could, I'm just breaking you down cause you're acting timid.

Why do you feel Kobe is a better difficult shot maker than Kareem?

Don't say because Kareem's shot isn't difficult for him.

The best rebounder ever is the best because it was easy for him.

The best scorer ever is the best because it was easy for him.

Because he is capable of making a wider variety of difficult shots, not just limited to one move?

ws7L
09-01-2009, 10:49 PM
because these shots are all way more difficult than making a mid-range hook shot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxOG678BA5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV0qMZJE3Xk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4GJHhdl9kc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG37xsOOvG8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vukMoNEtkBQ

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:51 PM
Great answer KB24. I can't argue with that.

That's all it took, Ws7l.

To KB24: I think you're my favorite Kobe fan. The rest seem to be completely brainwashed, lol.

Edit: KB24's answer was much better and more respectable than Ws7l's. He doesn't understand what relative means.

Waiting to see how many jump on KB24's bandwagon.

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 10:54 PM
They are. Not to be arrogant, but were there any good perimeter defensive specialists like Bowen, Posey, Battieri in the 90s?

there were a couple.

joe dumars
mookie blaylock
gary payton
derek harper
derrick mckey
dan majerle for a short few years of his career was also a all defense quality of player



problem there was that most of the great defensive minds back then for the perimeter side were shorter. nowadays you have big and long athletic defensive players like artest, tayshuan prince, battier, bowen in his prime, garnett, paul pierce roaming the perimeter lanes.

_KB24_
09-01-2009, 10:54 PM
Great answer KB24. I can't argue with that.

That's all it took, Ws7l.

To KB24: I think you're my favorite Kobe fan. The rest seem to be completely brainwashed, lol.

Edit: KB24's answer was much better and more respectable than Ws7l's. He doesn't understand what relative means.

Waiting to see how many jump on KB24's bandwagon.

It's all good at the end of the day. Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, etc. deserve to be debated so vigorously over.

Vee-Rex
09-01-2009, 10:59 PM
It's all good at the end of the day. Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, etc. deserve to be debated so vigorously over.

Agreed 100%.

And with that, I'm out.

magichatnumber9
09-01-2009, 11:04 PM
:facepalm:

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 11:07 PM
kareem's hook shot was a great weapon in his time, he had a long wingspan and a pair soft hands, but in comparison to kobe who possess a vast array of offensive skills, i think id pick kobe because he has an inside-out game.



with today's rule, where double and triple teams are allowed, kareem would probably have a hard time with the hook shot.

D1JM
09-01-2009, 11:08 PM
They are. Not to be arrogant, but were there any good perimeter defensive specialists like Bowen, Posey, Battieri in the 90s?

In 2001 this changes occur

The changes are:

Eliminating all existing illegal defense guidelines.

Establishing a defensive 3-second rule, limiting the amount of time a defensive player may stand in the lane when he is not closely guarding someone.

Reducing from 10 seconds to 8 seconds the amount of time a team will have to advance the ball past midcourt.

Eliminating touch fouls by allowing brief contact initiated by a defensive player if it does not impede the progress of the player with the ball.

If jordan would of been playing under those new rules established in 2001 during his prime time :speechless:

TannerOwnsDevin
09-01-2009, 11:10 PM
In 2001 this changes occur

The changes are:

Eliminating all existing illegal defense guidelines.

Establishing a defensive 3-second rule, limiting the amount of time a defensive player may stand in the lane when he is not closely guarding someone.

Reducing from 10 seconds to 8 seconds the amount of time a team will have to advance the ball past midcourt.

Eliminating touch fouls by allowing brief contact initiated by a defensive player if it does not impede the progress of the player with the ball.

If jordan would of been playing under those new rules established in 2001 during his prime time :speechless:

that rule change would not make jordan a better player lol

D1JM
09-01-2009, 11:28 PM
that rule change would not make jordan a better player lol

I am mainly talking about the other three. Maybe you are two young to even know what they were.

JordansBulls
09-01-2009, 11:42 PM
People are all over the place in this thread. From talking about stiff players to unathletic to rule changes, etc.

Get back on topic.

Master Mind
09-02-2009, 12:09 AM
I think Wade is on par when making difficult shots compared to Kobe

My sentiments exactly

Toenail Clipper
09-02-2009, 01:09 AM
as I know this is extremely early and yes it may be a homer pick but Derrick Rose has some of the sickest slashing manuvers ive seen. I remember playing him in High School as a Sophmore and he basically threw the ball from his foot whilst falling in the opposite direction and he made that shot twice. His slashing circus shot are definitely a sight for sore eyes.

How is Derrick Rose related to Kobe's difficult shot-making skills?

ko8e24
09-02-2009, 01:51 AM
You people are forgetting Bargnani and Bynum.

ok shutup dude, its really getting old.

ko8e24
09-02-2009, 01:57 AM
No one in the nba TODAY comes close to have the ability to make as tough as shots as Kobe. VC is great and clutch, but not as great as Kobe. Wade is also another one.

In terms of history, I have to say Kobe is the best difficult shot maker via the jumper.

Jordan is however the greatest player to make tough shots in the paint. No argument there.

this x 1 million :clap:

king4day
09-02-2009, 09:06 AM
I wanted to put no, simply because of MJ, but the options should be yes, no, or close/equal to MJ. Cuz that's the one I woulda picked. He might even have MJ beat there, but I wouldn't say Absolutely or Not even close.

king4day
09-02-2009, 09:09 AM
as I know this is extremely early and yes it may be a homer pick but Derrick Rose has some of the sickest slashing manuvers ive seen. I remember playing him in High School as a Sophmore and he basically threw the ball from his foot whilst falling in the opposite direction and he made that shot twice. His slashing circus shot are definitely a sight for sore eyes.

Derrick Rose is about 8-12 years away from being allowed to be considered in this thread.
Ray Allen before him 100 times over

loki34
09-02-2009, 09:43 AM
Ray allen I think is better but kobe got 5 good years to make those shots
Off topic you guys remember J.R. Rider behind the back falling out of bounds 3? Forgive me if that was mentioned already

Kobe2324
09-02-2009, 09:48 AM
I am not just saying this because I am a Kobe fan, but degree of dificulty on shots is unmatched. MJ is my favorite player of all time with Kobe a close 2nd but MJ was better at getting to the basket. Kobe is better outside the key and his foot work is unmatched. For him to shoot in the 40's for shooting percentage is absolutely amazing!

azkarraga
09-02-2009, 09:57 AM
I think it's pretty obvious that MJ has the footwork and ballhandling of himself, honestly.

best post today. lol.

azkarraga
09-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Next thread like this should be titled: Are we in love with Kobe? And the options: a) Yes. b)nah, it's only a one night stand.

BkOriginalOne
09-02-2009, 10:39 AM
I would say that MJ is second only because Kobe has better range.

69centers
09-02-2009, 10:48 AM
How about 10 players who were better at making difficult shots (in no order):

Jordan
Bird
Dr. J
Pistol Pete
Clyde Drexler
John Havlicek
Jerry West
George "Iceman" Gervin
Reggie Miller
Oscar Robertson

DLeeicious
09-02-2009, 10:50 AM
After conducting some rigorous research I've determined that MJ and Bird were indeed the most difficult shot makers in league history.

I've posted my findings here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oACRt-Qp-s)

Haha, yeah that about sums it up. What a great commercial.

DLeeicious
09-02-2009, 10:52 AM
How about 10 players who were better at making difficult shots (in no order):

Jordan
Bird
Dr. J
Pistol Pete
Clyde Drexler
John Havlicek
Jerry West
George "Iceman" Gervin
Reggie Miller
Oscar Robertson

Good call with Reggie Miller, that guy made some tough shots for sure.

daleja424
09-02-2009, 11:54 AM
dude....i hate this crap. every day there is another kobe bryant poll. Calm he bleep down with that crap. No one outside of lakers fans give a crap how good you all think kobe is...

ink
09-02-2009, 12:40 PM
dude....i hate this crap. every day there is another kobe bryant poll. Calm he bleep down with that crap. No one outside of lakers fans give a crap how good you all think kobe is...

I agree. It gets to be waaay too much. Please start these threads in the Lakers forum only.