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View Full Version : Mock Offseason Playoffs - Sudden Death - #2 Phoenix vs #4 San Antonio



BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 02:39 AM
Every offseason some of us on PSD do a mock offseason where we simulate an offseason by doing mock free agency and trades. Below are the rosters of two teams after the game, please look at both rosters and give your honest opinion on who you believe would win.

Remember, these votes have nothing to do with your real team so there is no reason to be a homer.

Phoenix Suns Lineup:

C - Yao / Rasho Nesterovic / Stephen Hunter
PF - Rashard Lewis / Lamar Odom
SF - Stephen Jackson / Grant Hill / Stephen Graham
SG - Vince Carter / Joey Graham / Adam Morrison
PG - Steve Nash / Earl Watson / Speedy Claxton


San Antonio Spurs Lineup:

PG: Chauncey Billups/ Antonio Daniels
SG: Delonte West/ Bonzi Wells
SF: Shane Battier/Andres Nocioni
PF: Elton Brand/ Luis Scola
C: Tim Duncan/ Antonio McDyess/ Desgana Diop



Phoenix Suns Series Writeup:

For the longest time I thought if I made it to this point, I was sure to play the Jazz, I even had started a write up of what I was going to say if I did face them. Anyway, it is great to have made it this far, really happy with how things came together for my team and I know am faced with playing a veteran team in the Spurs. With home court advantage in this series, we really like our chances of coming put on top. Best of luck to the Spurs.

Steve Nash - Chauncey Billups: One of the best matchups in the series. Both are veteran pg's who know how to win and run an offense in different ways. There remains no better playmaker in the west playoffs then Steve Nash. The two time MVP can do it all, he can score from anywhere on the floor and shoots a tremendous percentage from the free throw line and also a solid FG%. Nash however is the reason why this suns team can be so deadly. He simply makes everyone he plays with better, especially a guy like Vince Carter who thrives on having a pass first pg create opportunities for him. Nash we feel can have a Big series against Billups. This matchup really is tough to call but I give a slight edge to Nash and his ability to push the ball, something I know that Billups will not like to do if force upon him.

Vince Carter - Delonte West: This is perhaps the most lopsided matchup I have had in my favour since the start of the playoffs. West while a decent complimentary player off the bench is nowhere near the same class and talent as Vince Carter. Not to mention he is extremely undersized against Carter. Carter himself is 6'6 and 220, West 6'3 and 180. That difference is monumental. Carter should be able to easily shoot over west, back him down in the post with ease. The lack of west's size and ability to be a legitimate enough factor on defence gives the ultimate edge to Carter. Huge Edge for the Suns.

Stephen Jackson -Shane Battier: Yes battier is a great defender but where do they play him. If he is on Carter, that leaves west on Jackson. West happens to be a full 5 inches shorter then Jackson, that really would not make for a good matchup either way for West. Despite all of that, Jackson is a one hell of a player on offense and defence. The fact that there remains no really need to double any player on the floor on the spurs, allows Jackson to play battier straight up. Battier is slower and nowhere near as offensively sound as Jackson. Battier or west will certainly have their work load full in this series. Another significant edge to the Suns.

Rashard Lewis - Elton Brand: The matchup that wins it for me. Brand has not been a top 10 PF in over two years. Last year he continued to show extreme difficulty in coming back to full strength from his old injury. He looked slow and terrible at many points during last season and will be limited in what he can do in this series. He only shot 44% from the floor as a PF, that is downright troublesome. This is simply not the Brand that the spurs are going try and make you believe exists. Rashard Lewis on the other hand is coming of his best year, his defence and post up game reached new levels. The greatest advantage of Lewis over Brand comes on offense. Lewis can extend the floor better than any PF in the league except maybe Dirk. Lewis will force Brand to guard him on the outside on many plays, allowing Lewis the ability to put the ball on the floor and take the much slower Brand off the dribble every time. The fact that Rashard can score from anywhere on the floor makes this a matchup nightmare for the spurs. Another important factor that has to be noted is Brand's inability to run the floor well. With Lewis and Odom being both tremendous athletes who enjoy running the floor, it will create for many fast break opportunities in which Brand will not never be seen. Having both Lewis and Odom gives the Suns once again a significant edge over the Spurs.

Yao Ming - Tim Duncan: Like the Billups and Nash matchup, this one should prove to be just as exciting and close. Both are tremendous players on the offense and defensive ends of the floor. Both have an extremely polished offensive game with very few holes. Both are factors on the defensive end blocking and altering shots. To be honest both these guys are pretty close in ability at their current stage in their career. I think both players will get their points and rebounds in this series like any other series. To be honest I see this matchup being a wash. Yao is the pefect player to guard Duncan in this series.

Suns Bench - Spurs Bench: Well once again this should be close. The Spurs have a great deal of depth on their bench but it is all from there the frontcourt. Their backcourt on their bench remains quite suspect. Daniels is not a proven backup PG/SG on a great team. Last year he averaged a low 4 ppg and 2 apg, nothing certainly to go crazy about. On the other hand, Earl Watson is capable starting PG who has had experience as a proven quality backup guard. I feel much better knowing I have Watson and not Daniels in this series. The spurs also happen to not have a back up SG in this series while I have Grant Hill to offer there. With West and Billups having no support whatsoever off the bench and a combination of the suns run and gun play it will make for a long series for the Spurs starting back court. There is no question that the Spurs have a deep front court but it remains apparent that there is no better 6th man then Lamar Odom. He can defend and score at from really any position, to have him coming off the bench is a luxury, he will certainly have a big series as he is so interchangeable in this suns line-up. With Odom leading the way, we really feel that we have the advantage here. The Spurs can't play everyone in their front court so their depth will be certainly wasted. With Duncan sure to get 35 minutes and Brand close to the same, it leaves little opportunity for the Spurs frontcourt bench to see many minutes where they are strongest. Odom remains the best player off the bench in this series.

Conclusion: With the PG and Center positions being very close to call, it will come down to the other positions. The combination of VC and Jackson against Battier and West is very much a lopsided advantage in the Suns favour. Both Carter and Jackson can score at will and know how to share the ball (over 10 assists between the two of them) in order to create the best scoring opportunities for their teammates. Battier can only cover one of these scoring wingers and the other is sure to have their way with west. Add into the fact that we have Lewis and his ability take Brand away from the basket and get him out of his comfort zone and you have the makings of another match up in the suns favour. With Odom being the X-Factor off the bench, I feel that this matchup will be done in 6 games in the suns favour.



San Antonio Spurs Series Writeup:

We have tried to build the Spurs team into a team like the real-life Spurs teams when they were winning rings, by the philosophy that defense wins championships. Besides the great defense this team has, they also have championship experience, and vet experience.

I am going to compare the starters against each other.

Chauncey Billups vs Steve Nash: We feel we have the advantage here. Nash is a studly point guard, still one of the leagues best..but he isnt better then Chauncey. We feel Chauncey with his great defense would be able to limit Nash and physically wear him out. Also Nash is a poor defender, so Chauncey should have a field day on him. Not to mention, with the Suns having Yao as their center, it will take away from Nash's strength..which is run and gun.

Delonte West vs Stephen Jackson: Jackson is the better player here, but we feel West can hold his own against Jackson. He will give up a few inches, but he is quick enough and good enough defender to atleast make him work for everything he gets.


Shane Battier vs Vince Carter: Again, Carter is the better overall player here..but life certainly won't be easy. We are confident that Battier, the best perimeter defender in the game, can certainly put the clamps down on Carter and make him work for everything he gets. Throw in the fact VS is used to being the primary playmaker for his team, we feel he wont be as efficient playing next to Nash and Jackson (who both as well are the primary ball handlers for their teams).

Elton Brand vs Rashard Lewis: This is probably the closest to a wash, however we feel we would have the slight advantage. Brand is who is a superb defender will limit Lewis, much more then Lewis (who isnt a good defender) would limit Brand. Brand would absolutely destroy him in the post. Lewis would probably need help in the post guarding Brand, and if a double comes...our shooters are prepared to make them pay.

Tim Duncan vs Yao Ming: Spurs have the advantage here as well. Timmy is the more polished player on offense, and also the better defender. Duncan will out produce Yao on both sides of the floor, as he typically does.

Bench: Benches are close, but I feel we have the better bench here. I think our backcourts are probably the same, but I think we have the slightly better front court. While he has Hill/Odom, we counter that with Nocioni/Scola/McDyess. As good as Odom is, he is also very inconsistant, which is something the Suns certainly can't afford with him.

Overall with our great defense and potent offensive lineup, we feel we are the better team and will win the series.

BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 02:41 AM
I have eliminated the GM's click here selection because obviously some of our voters are making the mistake of clicking it. GM's just vote for your own team, and the only GM's recognized as GM's are MHC, Josh and Sparky.

Obviously their votes wont count towards the final tally.

Joshtd1
08-31-2009, 02:46 AM
How is this sudden death? It was 27-27, and Tom's vote made mine 28-27. I shouldnt be penalized because someone clicked the wrong button instead of Spurs?

BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 03:14 AM
How is this sudden death? It was 27-27, and Tom's vote made mine 28-27. I shouldnt be penalized because someone clicked the wrong button instead of Spurs?

Why didnt you change his vote like you did the others?

Plus its one thing when a person clicks on the GM part and says they meant to vote for a team, but when you click on one team and come back later saying you really meant to vote for another team then it gets flaky. I have done like 5 of these mock games now and never once have I seen a voting thread with so many "mistakes". Usually mistakes arent even a problem, to have so many in the same one makes it iffy.

All in all I just didnt think it was fair to MHC to end it on such weird circumstances. I originally said the Spurs won because I didnt know you had already changed the votes and thought it was clear cut, but now that I know you changed some votes its not so much.

Joshtd1
08-31-2009, 03:24 AM
Why didnt you change his vote like you did the others?

Plus its one thing when a person clicks on the GM part and says they meant to vote for a team, but when you click on one team and come back later saying you really meant to vote for another team then it gets flaky. I have done like 5 of these mock games now and never once have I seen a voting thread with so many "mistakes". Usually mistakes arent even a problem, to have so many in the same one makes it iffy.

All in all I just didnt think it was fair to MHC to end it on such weird circumstances. I originally said the Spurs won because I didnt know you had already changed the votes and thought it was clear cut, but now that I know you changed some votes its not so much.

I wasnt here when Tom came back and said he meant to vote for Spurs instead of clicking GM's.

When I changed the votes, I stated what the vote was currently, and how it would be affected after the change. I just didnt know how to move the people's names.

If you were to take Astro away from the Suns, and added him to mine, along with adding RaptorizedKevin and Tom81 (who said they meant to vote for me but accidently clicked the GM option) I would have 28 total votes, compared to his 27. And thats not included the person named droalex who clicked on the GM option as well.

BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 03:43 AM
I wasnt here when Tom came back and said he meant to vote for Spurs instead of clicking GM's.

When I changed the votes, I stated what the vote was currently, and how it would be affected after the change. I just didnt know how to move the people's names.

If you were to take Astro away from the Suns, and added him to mine, along with adding RaptorizedKevin and Tom81 (who said they meant to vote for me but accidently clicked the GM option) I would have 28 total votes, compared to his 27. And thats not included the person named droalex who clicked on the GM option as well.

Right and there is no way for you to prove either way who droalex meant to vote for. If we are counting votes for people who voted incorrectly we have to do it for all and you cant just assume that he meant to pick Spurs because you are the bottom team.

Gambeezy
08-31-2009, 03:43 AM
Extremely difficult to decide this one. While I thought both teams were unbelievably stacked, I agree that the Spurs actually have the deeper bench here. I chose the Suns though b/c Delonte would just have too difficult of a time guarding VC. I read both your write-ups and must say this took me some time to decide. Good luck GM's.

Theanswer76
08-31-2009, 04:09 AM
l

MTar786
08-31-2009, 10:40 AM
i say suns are the better team. D-west aint gonna cut it as ur starting sg too. iduno how the spurs got this to even go to sudden death. the suns are clearly better. unless battier is on roids or something

mitch91
08-31-2009, 10:50 AM
i got the suns again in this one, very close either way

hopefully it doesnt go like the real playoffs and the spurs beat the suns...AGAIN lol

Ace33Bone
08-31-2009, 11:03 AM
Both of these teams are pretty evenly matched up... But i had to give the slight edge to Phoenix just because they are deeper

king4day
08-31-2009, 11:31 AM
I didn't vote last time, but i do like Phoenix in this one. The length of the Wings is solid.

Saint Brian
08-31-2009, 12:05 PM
I still like the Spurs in this series.

Joshtd1
08-31-2009, 12:29 PM
Ill say this again. This team is very similar to the real life Suns of last year..except they have Yao insted of Shaq. We all saw what happened with that team...Nash's strength to push the ball was negated, and the team struggled.

I guess people are underrating the hell out of the defense my team has.

Don't get the hate for having West as my starting lineup..a guy who averaged 11-3-3.5-1.5 spg while shooting 40% 3's was pretty damn good for a guy who was the 4th option.

KnicksorBust
08-31-2009, 12:59 PM
I really wanna vote for the Spurs. They are that prototypical championship team. For some reason my gut says go with the home team here and take Phoenix. Vince Carter (who I used to hate but watched a lot last year and won me over with his passing and effort on defense) and Stephen Jackson just adds so much fire power that I don't believe West/Battier can keep up. Also, I love how Rashard Lewis fits on this team and Odom gives great depth off the bench.

Mile High Champ
08-31-2009, 01:14 PM
Ill say this again. This team is very similar to the real life Suns of last year..except they have Yao insted of Shaq. We all saw what happened with that team...Nash's strength to push the ball was negated, and the team struggled.

I guess people are underrating the hell out of the defense my team has.

Don't get the hate for having West as my starting lineup..a guy who averaged 11-3-3.5-1.5 spg while shooting 40% 3's was pretty damn good for a guy who was the 4th option.


Yeah right Josh. Were VC, Jackson, Rashard, Odom and Yao on that team. The only guy left from those suns team is Nash, plus this suns team has more talented wing players and benchvthen they have ever had.

thesparky33
08-31-2009, 01:32 PM
This is BS, and the Mock Offseason is now tainted IMO. Way to ruin another Mock, BB41.

Good luck, Catfish.

leftie5
08-31-2009, 01:39 PM
Tight match up here. I really like both of the benches, but the tie breaker for me is the fact that the Suns have Lamar Odom as the 6th man. Also, having Grant Hill coming off the bench is a big plus. The wing depth and hybrid wings/forwards the Suns have give them more versatility and is the difference.

I didn't vote last time, but would have voted for the Suns.

Joshtd1
08-31-2009, 02:12 PM
Yeah right Josh. Were VC, Jackson, Rashard, Odom and Yao on that team. The only guy left from those suns team is Nash, plus this suns team has more talented wing players and benchvthen they have ever had.

Nash/VC/Jackson/Lewis/Amare/Yao

Nash/Jrich/Hill/Amare/Shaq

Those two lineups are similar.

Regardless you have a team that likes to fast break, but you have Yao in the middle. Either Nash is going to struggle playing in the half court offense, or Yao is going to struggle to keep pace in the fast break offense.

You have Odom and Hill on the bench. Nocioni/Scola/Dice are better then just Odom and Hill. Our backcourt is a wash.

BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 03:35 PM
This is BS, and the Mock Offseason is now tainted IMO. Way to ruin another Mock, BB41.

Good luck, Catfish.

What?

The voting was at 27-27 with the votes changed, and their was two people who voted GM's click here. One of them said he meant to pick Spurs, the other didnt say anything. What if he meant Suns? To award you the winner just because the guy that did come back said he voted Spurs wouldnt be fair. Both Tom81 and that droalex guy voted GM's click here, and just because Tom came back later and said he meant Spurs doesnt mean that the vote counts for the Spurs because we never got word from droalex on what he meant. You cant have it one way but not the other.... either you factor in every mistake vote or none of them.

Shady66
08-31-2009, 03:37 PM
suns finally get revenge on spurs

Catfish1314
08-31-2009, 04:35 PM
What the hell? How did the other poll go from being so close and this one is 30-15?

DerekRE_3
08-31-2009, 04:39 PM
BS if you ask me...they declared a winner...then made a sudden death poll. I wonder how many Suns fans voted for the Suns.

Iodine
08-31-2009, 04:40 PM
How is it that everytime PSD does this stuff, theirs always something that makes me go, WTF?

Iodine
08-31-2009, 04:41 PM
suns finally get revenge on spurs

great to see your reasoning

DerekRE_3
08-31-2009, 04:42 PM
How is it that everytime PSD does this stuff, theirs always something that makes me go, WTF?

You mean like when Bargani got voted 5th best Center and when the Raptors beat the #1 seed Celtics in the PSD playoffs vote thing? That was a joke.

Iodine
08-31-2009, 04:44 PM
Hedo turkalo is the difference between the lawtery and championship?

TheFuture6
08-31-2009, 05:38 PM
The Spurs are ridiculously well put together. 31-18 what a joke.

BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 05:40 PM
BS if you ask me...they declared a winner...then made a sudden death poll. I wonder how many Suns fans voted for the Suns.

Was before I realized that Josh had edited the votes.

For some reason when you edit votes it changes the number of votes each team has but doesnt change who the name next to the team. Astrosmaniacs vote was for the Spurs after Josh edited it but Astromaniacs name was still next to PHX because there is no way to edit that part. Thats what made me think the vote hadn't been changed and that made the Spurs the winner. When I counted the names and realized there was more names then votes I realized it was already fixed and a sudden death was needed.

randomness
08-31-2009, 05:42 PM
Suns>Spurs

theimortalone
08-31-2009, 05:52 PM
Wow, why is Phoenix all the sudden dominating? :eyebrow:

Mile High Champ
08-31-2009, 06:41 PM
This is BS, and the Mock Offseason is now tainted IMO. Way to ruin another Mock, BB41.

Good luck, Catfish.

No it's more bs that your co was the one changing the votes, when the voting comes down to a single vote, questions and concerns have to be raised. If you are happy cheating to win the mock then all I gotta say is that's pathetic. Bomber did the right thing.

Mile High Champ
08-31-2009, 06:47 PM
What the hell? How did the other poll go from being so close and this one is 30-15?

Well there are some new voters this tome around, for example I see a bunch of gm's from the mock offseason coming out to vote ths time who had not prior.

jimbobjarree
08-31-2009, 06:59 PM
smells fishy to me

BlondeBomber41
08-31-2009, 09:02 PM
Its not fishy at all. The way the last voting ended was fishy and weird and it wouldnt be fair to name anyone a winner. There was no way for me to predict that the voting would go this way the second time around. I just knew that the way the voting was the first time was fishy and if you are gonna count mistake votes then you gotta count them all, not just the people that show up and correct them.

jimbobjarree
08-31-2009, 10:28 PM
I just wanted to sound cool

Robbw241
08-31-2009, 10:29 PM
Very cool indeed

jimbobjarree
08-31-2009, 10:30 PM
thanks man, I needed that

MajorFloridaFan
08-31-2009, 11:50 PM
i fail to understand apologize me ignorance

Joshtd1
09-01-2009, 03:22 AM
Good luck in the finals.

27-27 to 41-26....interesting.

DerekRE_3
09-01-2009, 04:25 AM
Good luck in the finals.

27-27 to 41-26....interesting.

Very interesting.

TheFuture6
09-01-2009, 04:36 AM
Good luck in the finals.

27-27 to 41-26....interesting.

Now tell us what you really think.

I like you
09-01-2009, 04:44 AM
spurs shouldve packaged Brand and West for a taller, better SG

KnicksorBust
09-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Good luck in the finals.

27-27 to 41-26....interesting.

lol drama. It is weird though. I hope there is none of this in the upcoming redraft.

This Suns >> Real Suns Josh

Nash = Nash
Carter > J-Rich
Jackson > Hill
Rashard < Amare (But Lewis is perfect for this system to create mismatches)
Yao > Shaq

and imo Odom is better than both West and Battier who are starters on your team.

Joshtd1
09-01-2009, 03:18 PM
lol drama. It is weird though. I hope there is none of this in the upcoming redraft.

This Suns >> Real Suns Josh

Nash = Nash
Carter > J-Rich
Jackson > Hill
Rashard < Amare (But Lewis is perfect for this system to create mismatches)
Yao > Shaq

and imo Odom is better than both West and Battier who are starters on your team.

Yes this team is better then the real life Suns team. Im not debating that at all. My point was that they both had a fast break PG, and a big slow center, along with running wings/PF. Nash's strengths were taken away by having a big center in the paint by having to dump it in to him. And say if they did run instead of half court, Yao would suffer because he's too slow and he'd be not as effective.

Odom is a stud no doubt, but I had Scola and McDyess who I would take combined over Odom.

His team lacked defense as well. Nash would get destroyed by Billups, and Brand would have dominated Lewis on the inside.

Again though congrats to MHC, and good luck in the finals.