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JordansBulls
08-28-2009, 02:34 PM
Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content)

10) Hinrich
9) Snow
8) Kidd
7) Bowen
6) Artest
5) Mutombo
4) Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
2) Battier
1) KG

Hawkeye15
08-28-2009, 02:39 PM
pretty good list

MTar786
08-28-2009, 02:42 PM
Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content)

10) Hinrich
9) Snow
8) Kidd
7) Bowen
6) Artest
5) Mutombo
4) Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
2) Battier
1) KG

wow what a terrible list.
bowen should be higher
kg should be lower
duncan better defender than DK?? no way

top 3 are def wallace, Dikembe, bowen

gary payton should have been on this list.. n maybe even kobe
hinrich is a good defender but come on.. not top 10 of this decade.. iduno bout eric snow either

Raph12
08-28-2009, 02:42 PM
Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content)

10) Hinrich
9) Snow
8) Kidd
7) Bowen
6) Artest
5) Mutombo
4) Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
2) Battier
1) KG

My rankings:
1) Dikembe Mutombo
2) Tim Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
4) Bruce Bowen
5) Ron Artest
6) Shane Battier
7) Kevin Garnett
8) Kobe Bryant
9) Eric Snow
10) Jason Kidd

Hawkeye15
08-28-2009, 02:44 PM
I forsee this turning into a Kobe thread

Unruly Fan
08-28-2009, 02:48 PM
Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content)

10) Hinrich
9) Snow
8) Kidd
7) Bowen
6) Artest
5) Mutombo
4) Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
2) Battier
1) KG


wow what a terrible list.
bowen should be higher
kg should be lower
duncan better defender than DK?? no way

top 3 are def wallace, Dikembe, bowen

gary payton should have been on this list.. n maybe even kobe
hinrich is a good defender but come on.. not top 10 of this decade.. iduno bout eric snow either

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyOpsqBX7Ls

Also... no JO or MARION on that list?

D Roses Bulls
08-28-2009, 02:54 PM
i think you could *** dwight howard to this list. he was drafted in 04 but hinrich was drafted a year earlier and is on this list and ben wallace didnt start getting good till 04.

Ace33Bone
08-28-2009, 02:55 PM
First of all Hinrich doesn't belong anywhere near this list and if i remember correctly Payton was still around in the last 10 years... and I would even put Kobe on this list before a few of these people

Ace33Bone
08-28-2009, 02:55 PM
I also think that Caron Butler could be on this list as well

madiaz3
08-28-2009, 02:57 PM
I forsee this turning into a Kobe thread

Explain why you think he should not be on this list? This isn't a Kobe thread, he just happens to be a player in question from this list.

DCSportsIsPain
08-28-2009, 03:03 PM
This list is subjectively ********:

This one is objectively accurate:

1. Elmore Smith 93.72
2. Ben Wallace 94.42
3. Tim Duncan 94.48
4. Gar Heard 95.30
5. Dave Cowens* 95.52
6. David Robinson* 95.65
7. Clifford Ray 96.26
8. Bill Walton* 96.29
9. Wes Unseld* 96.31
10. Sam Lacey 96.45
11. Arvydas Sabonis 96.60
12. George Johnson 96.67
13. Paul Silas 96.77
14. Phil Chenier 97.29
15. George McGinnis 97.30
16. Elvin Hayes* 97.36
17. Slick Watts 97.43
18. Norm Van Lier 97.66
19. Manu Ginobili 97.68
20. Hakeem Olajuwon* 97.89
21. Walt Frazier* 98.11
22. Marcus Camby 98.23
23. Bob Lanier* 98.40
24. Jim Brewer 98.51
25. John Havlicek* 98.71
26. Steve Mix 98.72
27. Harvey Catchings 98.87
28. Yao Ming 99.06
29. Patrick Ewing* 99.08
30. Jim Price 99.17
31. Rich Kelley 99.18
32. Dikembe Mutombo 99.19
33. Kevin Garnett 99.29
34. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 99.30
35. Larry Steele 99.34
36. Bobby Jones 99.37
37. Rick Barry* 99.44
38. Alonzo Mourning 99.57
39. Jermaine O'Neal 99.68
40. Dwight Howard 99.72
41. Truck Robinson 99.74
42. Bob McAdoo* 99.75
43. Malik Rose 99.80
44. Charlie Ward 99.91
45. Alvan Adams 99.94
46. Marvin Webster 100.03
47. Shawn Marion 100.04
48. Greg Ostertag 100.09
49. Shawn Kemp 100.14
50. Jim Chones 100.23
51. Darryl Dawkins 100.25
52. Dennis Rodman 100.26
53. Lucius Allen 100.26
54. Tree Rollins 100.36
55. Mark Eaton 100.37
56. Spencer Haywood 100.44
57. Kenyon Martin 100.46
58. Bob Dandridge 100.48
59. Kermit Washington 100.57
60. Bill Robinzine 100.66
61. John Gianelli 100.69
62. Curtis Rowe 100.70
63. Kevin Kunnert 100.72
64. Jo Jo White 100.83
65. Julius Erving* 100.89
66. Shawn Bradley 100.92
67. Chris Webber 100.96
68. Rasheed Wallace 101.01
69. Steve Hawes 101.01
70. Karl Malone 101.05
71. Sidney Wicks 101.08
72. Quinn Buckner 101.09
73. Theo Ratliff 101.13
74. Robert Horry 101.19
75. Jerome Williams 101.19
76. Kurt Thomas 101.21
77. Dan Roundfield 101.21
78. Shaquille O'Neal 101.30
79. Bonzi Wells 101.32
80. Bob Gross 101.37
81. Vlade Divac 101.38
82. Andrei Kirilenko 101.38
83. Jack Sikma 101.38
84. Samuel Dalembert 101.39
85. Larry Bird* 101.44
86. Jim McMillian 101.45
87. Jeff Foster 101.47
88. Fred Brown 101.48
89. Paul Westphal 101.48
90. Ervin Johnson 101.48
91. Mickey Johnson 101.50
92. Tyson Chandler 101.50
93. Scottie Pippen 101.51
94. Foots Walker 101.58
95. Lonnie Shelton 101.70
96. Jason Kidd 101.71
97. Chris Dudley 101.74
98. Rasho Nesterovic 101.76
99. M.L. Carr 101.81
100. Bo Outlaw 101.82

Career Defensive Ratings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html)

CQSox305
08-28-2009, 03:03 PM
IDK about Hinrich, maybe top 30 of the decade.

Hitman21
08-28-2009, 03:09 PM
I also think that Caron Butler could be on this list as well

Yes..Caron has got some D for sure, and should make the list over kirk....im sorry but hinrich doesnt even come to my mind when thinking of a top defensive player....Am i missing something..or is chris paul not a million times better defensivly than kirk?

KmB728
08-28-2009, 03:10 PM
Quick everyone name the best defender from your team in the last decade! :laugh2:

Raps18-19 Champ
08-28-2009, 03:14 PM
I don't know about Hinrich or Kidd. Both are good but I'd put guys like Camby, Ratliff and at least 3-5 more over those 2.

I also think Bowen and Mutombo is too low.

Unruly Fan
08-28-2009, 03:14 PM
According the list below...


This list is subjectively ********:

This one is objectively accurate:

1. Elmore Smith 93.72
2. Ben Wallace 94.42
3. Tim Duncan 94.48
4. Gar Heard 95.30
5. Dave Cowens* 95.52
6. David Robinson* 95.65
7. Clifford Ray 96.26
8. Bill Walton* 96.29
9. Wes Unseld* 96.31
10. Sam Lacey 96.45
11. Arvydas Sabonis 96.60
12. George Johnson 96.67
13. Paul Silas 96.77
14. Phil Chenier 97.29
15. George McGinnis 97.30
16. Elvin Hayes* 97.36
17. Slick Watts 97.43
18. Norm Van Lier 97.66
19. Manu Ginobili 97.68
20. Hakeem Olajuwon* 97.89
21. Walt Frazier* 98.11
22. Marcus Camby 98.23
23. Bob Lanier* 98.40
24. Jim Brewer 98.51
25. John Havlicek* 98.71
26. Steve Mix 98.72
27. Harvey Catchings 98.87
28. Yao Ming 99.06
29. Patrick Ewing* 99.08
30. Jim Price 99.17
31. Rich Kelley 99.18
32. Dikembe Mutombo 99.19
33. Kevin Garnett 99.29
34. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 99.30
35. Larry Steele 99.34
36. Bobby Jones 99.37
37. Rick Barry* 99.44
38. Alonzo Mourning 99.57
39. Jermaine O'Neal 99.68
40. Dwight Howard 99.72
41. Truck Robinson 99.74
42. Bob McAdoo* 99.75
43. Malik Rose 99.80
44. Charlie Ward 99.91
45. Alvan Adams 99.94
46. Marvin Webster 100.03
47. Shawn Marion 100.04
48. Greg Ostertag 100.09
49. Shawn Kemp 100.14
50. Jim Chones 100.23
51. Darryl Dawkins 100.25
52. Dennis Rodman 100.26
53. Lucius Allen 100.26
54. Tree Rollins 100.36
55. Mark Eaton 100.37
56. Spencer Haywood 100.44
57. Kenyon Martin 100.46
58. Bob Dandridge 100.48
59. Kermit Washington 100.57
60. Bill Robinzine 100.66
61. John Gianelli 100.69
62. Curtis Rowe 100.70
63. Kevin Kunnert 100.72
64. Jo Jo White 100.83
65. Julius Erving* 100.89
66. Shawn Bradley 100.92
67. Chris Webber 100.96
68. Rasheed Wallace 101.01
69. Steve Hawes 101.01
70. Karl Malone 101.05
71. Sidney Wicks 101.08
72. Quinn Buckner 101.09
73. Theo Ratliff 101.13
74. Robert Horry 101.19
75. Jerome Williams 101.19
76. Kurt Thomas 101.21
77. Dan Roundfield 101.21
78. Shaquille O'Neal 101.30
79. Bonzi Wells 101.32
80. Bob Gross 101.37
81. Vlade Divac 101.38
82. Andrei Kirilenko 101.38
83. Jack Sikma 101.38
84. Samuel Dalembert 101.39
85. Larry Bird* 101.44
86. Jim McMillian 101.45
87. Jeff Foster 101.47
88. Fred Brown 101.48
89. Paul Westphal 101.48
90. Ervin Johnson 101.48
91. Mickey Johnson 101.50
92. Tyson Chandler 101.50
93. Scottie Pippen 101.51
94. Foots Walker 101.58
95. Lonnie Shelton 101.70
96. Jason Kidd 101.71
97. Chris Dudley 101.74
98. Rasho Nesterovic 101.76
99. M.L. Carr 101.81
100. Bo Outlaw 101.82

Career Defensive Ratings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html)

Top 10 of decade.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-28-2009, 03:14 PM
And where in the hell in Andrea Kirelenko if Hinrich is there.

ko8e24
08-28-2009, 03:20 PM
First of all Hinrich doesn't belong anywhere near this list and if i remember correctly Payton was still around in the last 10 years... and I would even put Kobe on this list before a few of these people

payton's last great defensive yr was 2003. as soon as he came to the lakers for the 03-04 season, the glove lost all his fingers.

Jahari Kavi
08-28-2009, 03:21 PM
not sure about hinrich, snow, or kidd............Jermaine O'Neal was a pretty good defender for some time.......

Hitman21
08-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Quick everyone name the best defender from your team in the last decade! :laugh2:

Yea well what do u expect when the person who started this thread puts hinrich int he top 10...and just happens to be a bulls fan....lol...cmone dude..really? hinrich? im surpised im surprised u didnt put joakim noah on there

goldenstater
08-28-2009, 03:45 PM
i for one am glad kobe is not on the list. cause i for one think he is a bit overrated as a defender. of course that's just opinion on my part.

b_rad23
08-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Zo should be there over Hinrich...

Also, no way Kobe is in here guys, sorry. I know you want to plug him in every thread, but he's just not a top 10 defender this decade.

Hustla23
08-28-2009, 03:55 PM
lol Hinrich?

bosox3431
08-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Yea well what do u expect when the person who started this thread puts hinrich int he top 10...and just happens to be a bulls fan....lol...cmone dude..really? hinrich? im surpised im surprised u didnt put joakim noah on there

did you not see that this was from yahoo? lol dude

Lakersfan2483
08-28-2009, 04:46 PM
Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content)

10) Hinrich
9) Snow
8) Kidd
7) Bowen
6) Artest
5) Mutombo
4) Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
2) Battier
1) KG

Top ten revised and in no particular order.

Duncan, KG, Kobe, Bowen, B. Wallace, Mutombo, Artest, Battier, Kidd, T. Prince.

kobe24>lebron23
08-28-2009, 04:46 PM
how is tim duncan there but kobe isn't just wow i guess 7 first teamers 2 second and 2 thirds don't count!!

Reyes6
08-28-2009, 04:49 PM
My rankings:
1) Dikembe Mutombo
2) Tim Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
4) Bruce Bowen
5) Ron Artest
6) Shane Battier
7) Kevin Garnett
8) Kobe Bryant
9) Eric Snow
10) Jason Kidd


I think I'm in Love with you.

Reyes6
08-28-2009, 04:51 PM
According the list below...



Top 10 of decade.


I think I hate you for missing Mutombo.

Unruly Fan
08-28-2009, 04:52 PM
how is tim duncan there but kobe isn't just wow i guess 7 first teamers 2 second and 2 thirds don't count!!Are you disputing Duncan? Really? Why don't you have a gander at the all time "Career Defensive Ratings" list above and see where Duncan ranks.

Raph12
08-28-2009, 04:53 PM
I think I'm in Love with you.

Let's hope not... well unless your a pretty girl with size d tetays

Unruly Fan
08-28-2009, 04:54 PM
I think I hate you for missing Mutombo.But your OK with me leaving out David Robinson? Point being these guys were amazing no doubt, but most of their peak years were in the 90s.

Reyes6
08-28-2009, 04:55 PM
Oh sorry I forgot to put this... No homo.

Reyes6
08-28-2009, 04:57 PM
But your OK with me leaving out David Robinson? Point being these guys were amazing no doubt, but most of their peak years were in the 90s.


Mutombo won DPOY in 2000-2001... the 1st year of this decade.

mser58
08-28-2009, 05:02 PM
no way Eric Snow is on this list, I watched him and I was never impressed with his defense and he was always overrated, this is blowing it totally out of proportion.

bbcmillionaire
08-28-2009, 05:05 PM
lol screw u guy kirk made the list lmao. seriously, what about the job he does against wade and paul peirce? maybe not top 10 of the decade but a very good defensive pg. sure he got his ankles broken, but mike got crossed by allen iverson, does that take away from his greatness? lebron got dunked on from a youngin, mutumbo got dunked on, dwight got dunked. not comparing kirk to any of them players but im just saying, a few lapses doesnt take away from a players overll ability

mikantsass
08-28-2009, 05:10 PM
Kobe and Gary Payton need to be on that list

SteveNash
08-28-2009, 05:11 PM
This list is subjectively ********:

This one is objectively accurate:
Career Defensive Ratings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html)

Top 10 active:

1. Ben Wallace 94.42
2. Tim Duncan 94.48
3. Manu Ginobili 97.68
4. Marcus Camby 98.23
5. Yao Ming 99.06
6. Deke Mutombo 99.19
7. Kevin Garnett 99.29
8. Jermaine O'Neal 99.68
9. Dwight Howard 99.72
10. Malik Rose 99.80

First though? Holy hell Malik Rose is still active? I guess being a bench warmer for OKC and NYK really makes you disappear.

Second thought? So this proves Yao is better than Dwight right?

bodupp311
08-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Yea well what do u expect when the person who started this thread puts hinrich int he top 10...and just happens to be a bulls fan....lol...cmone dude..really? hinrich? im surpised im surprised u didnt put joakim noah on there

learn to read stupid, the thread title says Yahoosports NOT JordansBulls opinion damn

DetroitRipCity
08-28-2009, 05:42 PM
only 1 person showing some love for Tay huh?

marques724
08-28-2009, 05:59 PM
I am having a hard time believing that Kurt is a top ten defender in this decade.

smith&wesson
08-28-2009, 06:01 PM
Where the hell is gary payton on that list. and shaq ??

Mavrix
08-28-2009, 06:35 PM
What about Shaq?

Raps18-19 Champ
08-28-2009, 06:43 PM
Where is Bargnani and Bynum?

BALLER71
08-28-2009, 06:46 PM
Where's Marion and Gary Payton?


:laugh: x100 I realized it also has no Shaq. Wow.

bigsams50
08-28-2009, 06:49 PM
Where is Bargnani and Bynum?

:laugh:

DCSportsIsPain
08-28-2009, 06:59 PM
What about Shaq?

Shaq is 78th all-time. And most of his defense was the first half of his career.

Catfish1314
08-28-2009, 07:44 PM
how is tim duncan there but kobe isn't just wow i guess 7 first teamers 2 second and 2 thirds don't count!!

Kobe is kind of a defensive enigma to me, especially these days, because his performance varies with the teams he plays. When the Lakers play Cleveland, he is the best defensive player in the league because you can see him taking on the assignment of LeBron James as a personal challenge. But there are other nights when his defense on the ball is less intense and he'll do a lot of wandering and try too hard to pick up a steal. Several years ago, he was an elite defender every night. But he was also in his 20s then.

I would compose this list with these criteria in mind: defensive ability on the biggest stages, how much influence your defense has on your team and team success, defense on the ball/help defense, defensive versatility, and fundamental defensive facets.

Based on those, my list:

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Ben Wallace
3. Dikembe Mutumbo
4. Shane Battier
5. Tim Duncan
6. Bruce Bowen
7. Jason Kidd
8. Ron Artest
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Shawn Marion

Marion is in there because there was a time when he could effectively defend 4 different positions.

theuuord
08-28-2009, 07:50 PM
This list is subjectively ********:

This one is objectively accurate:

Career Defensive Ratings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html)

not really. this doesn't account for a) differences in offensive/defensive quality year by year, b) position, or c) the fact that defensive rating is a really poor measurement for individual defensive prowess. even Dean Oliver (the creator of DRtg) acknowledges that.

With the metrics out there right now it's almost impossible to rate individual defensive ability.

ryanj12344
08-28-2009, 08:15 PM
wow how could you put hinrich on this list and not kobe? and kg as number one? no way. what about alonzo mourning?

bigsams50
08-28-2009, 08:24 PM
whts wrong wit kg

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-29-2009, 12:45 AM
i think you could *** dwight howard to this list. he was drafted in 04 but hinrich was drafted a year earlier and is on this list and ben wallace didnt start getting good till 04.

Dwight and good defender?joking right!

He couldn't defend Pau in the finals!

Kobe4Life
08-29-2009, 12:54 AM
Kobe not being top 5 is kind of a joke, but no ones suprised he doesn't get any love from anyone in the sporting world. Look at all the times he's made 1st Allteam defense. Way more than alot of the other canidates, bad bad journalism.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-29-2009, 12:58 AM
People are seriously defining defense by 1st all defensive team but I bet if Lebron makes the 1st defensive team for the next 5 years, people are going to think that award is a joke.

raptors3589
08-29-2009, 01:01 AM
I'm glad that Battier made it pretty high up...after not many people can guard Kobe that well

ko8e24
08-29-2009, 01:05 AM
Mike James? Mark Blount? helllooo? y aren't they on this list :mad:

Raps18-19 Champ
08-29-2009, 01:10 AM
Mike James? Mark Blount? helllooo? y aren't they on this list :mad:

You forgot about Bargnani and Bynum.

ARMIN12NBA
08-29-2009, 01:12 AM
Eric Snow has been MIA for the last 4 years of the decade so there is no way he should even sniff this list. Hinrich didn't even enter the league until half way through the decade and has only been decent to below average defensively the last two years. Awful list.

Kings Faithful
08-29-2009, 01:15 AM
I'd take Doug Christie over a few of those guys.

Chronz
08-29-2009, 03:56 AM
Because we're dealing with an exact time frame, I think defensive win shares should be weighted more heavily than defensive ratings.


Ran alittle search on BBR, for this decade of players with the most defensive win shares and highest defensive ratings. Based on my junk composite rating (players who rank among the top in both throughout the decade), these are the best defenders :
The Elite
Tim Duncan
Ben Wallace
Kevin Garnet
Marcus Camby

Tier II
Jason Kidd
Shawn Marion
Rasheed Wallace

Downed but not out
Jermaine Oneal (His decline years hurt him)

Tier III
Yao
Dwight
C-Webb
Kenyon


Theyve had their moments
Shaq
Pierce (Surprisingly strong entire career)
Artest

Dominant but short lived
DRob (If you were to include him with the highest defensive winsahres group he would rank #1) He was that good in limited minutes.

Best Defensive Reserves (Guys with sick ratings in limited MPG)
Deke
Manu
Horry

Hawkeye15
08-29-2009, 11:33 AM
Kobe not being top 5 is kind of a joke, but no ones suprised he doesn't get any love from anyone in the sporting world. Look at all the times he's made 1st Allteam defense. Way more than alot of the other canidates, bad bad journalism.

?????

Hawkeye15
08-29-2009, 11:34 AM
Because we're dealing with an exact time frame, I think defensive win shares should be weighted more heavily than defensive ratings.


Ran alittle search on BBR, for this decade of players with the most defensive win shares and highest defensive ratings. Based on my junk composite rating (players who rank among the top in both throughout the decade), these are the best defenders :
The Elite
Tim Duncan
Ben Wallace
Kevin Garnet
Marcus Camby

Tier II
Jason Kidd
Shawn Marion
Rasheed Wallace

Downed but not out
Jermaine Oneal (His decline years hurt him)

Tier III
Yao
Dwight
C-Webb
Kenyon


Theyve had their moments
Shaq
Pierce (Surprisingly strong entire career)
Artest

Dominant but short lived
DRob (If you were to include him with the highest defensive winsahres group he would rank #1) He was that good in limited minutes.

Best Defensive Reserves (Guys with sick ratings in limited MPG)
Deke
Manu
Horry


I agree with most of this actually. I would think Artest may be higher if he didn't miss a whole season in his defensive prime, and I would have thought Deke would have been higher, but oh well. Camby surprises me. I always thought he was an overrated on the ball defender, just great at weak side blocks and defensive rebounding

Bullsfan22
08-29-2009, 12:26 PM
I stopped reading it after I saw Kirk on the list. He's an overrated defender by most Bulls fans an obviously yahoo sports. He's a scrappy above average defender against point guards and that's about it. He lacks the size to guard any shooting guard 6'6 an over and for his accolades he's been on the all-defensive 1st team ZERO times. So how the hell is he top ten...on top of that in the DECADE? he's not in the top ten right now...

Chronz
08-29-2009, 12:30 PM
I agree with most of this actually. I would think Artest may be higher if he didn't miss a whole season in his defensive prime, and I would have thought Deke would have been higher, but oh well. Camby surprises me. I always thought he was an overrated on the ball defender, just great at weak side blocks and defensive rebounding
Deke only had 3 seasons in the 00's where he was a regular rotational player that hurt him. If you were to extrapolate his playing time to match the main guys he ends up being tier 1, but it easier to post higher defensive ratings when you can play all out in limited MPG.

Not playing in 04-05 cost Artest a few points but his last 2 years in Sacramento hurt more, we should include adjusted defensive differential.

Agreed on Camby, I dont think hes as good as his stats suggest, say what you will about him but keep in mind he started the decade off a dominant defensive run to the Finals and one thing hes done is be a part of some good defensive teams his entire career. Camby may not be the guy who can anchor a historically good defense but he can atleast ensure respectability, hell he made the Clippers defense decent when he was on the court.

Abit more tweaking needs to be done.

Ovratd1up
08-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Yes..Caron has got some D for sure, and should make the list over kirk....im sorry but hinrich doesnt even come to my mind when thinking of a top defensive player....Am i missing something..or is chris paul not a million times better defensivly than kirk?

LoL!

I agree that Kirk shouldn't have made the list. But seriously? If anything Kirk is a million times better defensively than Chris Paul, who only gets steals. But yea, Kobe and a few others should definitely have made it over Hinrich.

Ovratd1up
08-29-2009, 12:55 PM
Yes..Caron has got some D for sure, and should make the list over kirk....im sorry but hinrich doesnt even come to my mind when thinking of a top defensive player....Am i missing something..or is chris paul not a million times better defensivly than kirk?

LoL!

I agree that Kirk shouldn't have made the list. But seriously? If anything Kirk is a million times better defensively than Chris Paul, who only gets steals. But yea, Kobe and a few others should definitely have made it over Hinrich.

theuuord
08-29-2009, 01:02 PM
Because we're dealing with an exact time frame, I think defensive win shares should be weighted more heavily than defensive ratings.


Ran alittle search on BBR, for this decade of players with the most defensive win shares and highest defensive ratings. Based on my junk composite rating (players who rank among the top in both throughout the decade), these are the best defenders :
The Elite
Tim Duncan
Ben Wallace
Kevin Garnet
Marcus Camby

Tier II
Jason Kidd
Shawn Marion
Rasheed Wallace

Downed but not out
Jermaine Oneal (His decline years hurt him)

Tier III
Yao
Dwight
C-Webb
Kenyon


Theyve had their moments
Shaq
Pierce (Surprisingly strong entire career)
Artest

Dominant but short lived
DRob (If you were to include him with the highest defensive winsahres group he would rank #1) He was that good in limited minutes.

Best Defensive Reserves (Guys with sick ratings in limited MPG)
Deke
Manu
Horry

This is why DWS are flawed. Battier is nowhere to be found on this list.

astrosmaniac
08-29-2009, 10:05 PM
^^bingo, thats why he is the no-stats all-star

Chronz
08-29-2009, 11:14 PM
This is why DWS are flawed. Battier is nowhere to be found on this list.
Also the reason why OFS are flawed, Battier is rated to highly IMO. But why does it undervalue him so much? And to be fair, Battier himself has admitted to only being a legitimate defender by his 3rd year in the league. Ever since hes been on top defensive teams yet doesnt post the high ratings players in similar situations do.

RaptorizedKevin
08-29-2009, 11:21 PM
Yes..Caron has got some D for sure, and should make the list over kirk....im sorry but hinrich doesnt even come to my mind when thinking of a top defensive player....Am i missing something..or is chris paul not a million times better defensivly than kirk?

youd ont notice hinrich as much, because caron is an all star/starter.. hinrich has very good d. just watch him more , you would believe me.

Mave1002
08-30-2009, 07:07 AM
I forsee this turning into a Kobe thread

LoL hater. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

Mave1002
08-30-2009, 07:10 AM
This list is subjectively ********:

This one is objectively accurate:

1. Elmore Smith 93.72
2. Ben Wallace 94.42
3. Tim Duncan 94.48
4. Gar Heard 95.30
5. Dave Cowens* 95.52
6. David Robinson* 95.65
7. Clifford Ray 96.26
8. Bill Walton* 96.29
9. Wes Unseld* 96.31
10. Sam Lacey 96.45
11. Arvydas Sabonis 96.60
12. George Johnson 96.67
13. Paul Silas 96.77
14. Phil Chenier 97.29
15. George McGinnis 97.30
16. Elvin Hayes* 97.36
17. Slick Watts 97.43
18. Norm Van Lier 97.66
19. Manu Ginobili 97.68
20. Hakeem Olajuwon* 97.89
21. Walt Frazier* 98.11
22. Marcus Camby 98.23
23. Bob Lanier* 98.40
24. Jim Brewer 98.51
25. John Havlicek* 98.71
26. Steve Mix 98.72
27. Harvey Catchings 98.87
28. Yao Ming 99.06
29. Patrick Ewing* 99.08
30. Jim Price 99.17
31. Rich Kelley 99.18
32. Dikembe Mutombo 99.19
33. Kevin Garnett 99.29
34. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 99.30
35. Larry Steele 99.34
36. Bobby Jones 99.37
37. Rick Barry* 99.44
38. Alonzo Mourning 99.57
39. Jermaine O'Neal 99.68
40. Dwight Howard 99.72
41. Truck Robinson 99.74
42. Bob McAdoo* 99.75
43. Malik Rose 99.80
44. Charlie Ward 99.91
45. Alvan Adams 99.94
46. Marvin Webster 100.03
47. Shawn Marion 100.04
48. Greg Ostertag 100.09
49. Shawn Kemp 100.14
50. Jim Chones 100.23
51. Darryl Dawkins 100.25
52. Dennis Rodman 100.26
53. Lucius Allen 100.26
54. Tree Rollins 100.36
55. Mark Eaton 100.37
56. Spencer Haywood 100.44
57. Kenyon Martin 100.46
58. Bob Dandridge 100.48
59. Kermit Washington 100.57
60. Bill Robinzine 100.66
61. John Gianelli 100.69
62. Curtis Rowe 100.70
63. Kevin Kunnert 100.72
64. Jo Jo White 100.83
65. Julius Erving* 100.89
66. Shawn Bradley 100.92
67. Chris Webber 100.96
68. Rasheed Wallace 101.01
69. Steve Hawes 101.01
70. Karl Malone 101.05
71. Sidney Wicks 101.08
72. Quinn Buckner 101.09
73. Theo Ratliff 101.13
74. Robert Horry 101.19
75. Jerome Williams 101.19
76. Kurt Thomas 101.21
77. Dan Roundfield 101.21
78. Shaquille O'Neal 101.30
79. Bonzi Wells 101.32
80. Bob Gross 101.37
81. Vlade Divac 101.38
82. Andrei Kirilenko 101.38
83. Jack Sikma 101.38
84. Samuel Dalembert 101.39
85. Larry Bird* 101.44
86. Jim McMillian 101.45
87. Jeff Foster 101.47
88. Fred Brown 101.48
89. Paul Westphal 101.48
90. Ervin Johnson 101.48
91. Mickey Johnson 101.50
92. Tyson Chandler 101.50
93. Scottie Pippen 101.51
94. Foots Walker 101.58
95. Lonnie Shelton 101.70
96. Jason Kidd 101.71
97. Chris Dudley 101.74
98. Rasho Nesterovic 101.76
99. M.L. Carr 101.81
100. Bo Outlaw 101.82

Career Defensive Ratings (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/def_rtg_career.html)

Greg Ostertag.. surprising.

theuuord
08-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Also the reason why OFS are flawed, Battier is rated to highly IMO. But why does it undervalue him so much? And to be fair, Battier himself has admitted to only being a legitimate defender by his 3rd year in the league. Ever since hes been on top defensive teams yet doesnt post the high ratings players in similar situations do.

From what I've noted DWS is imbalanced in favor of big men, which to some extent does make sense since big men have more of an impact on overall team defense. as far as OWS is concerned, Battier's rated well because he's highly efficient on the offensive end while using very few possessions (which is a luxury for him, to be fair).

MrFastBreak
08-30-2009, 12:50 PM
Source: Yahoosports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-best-defenders-of-the-last-decade?urn=nba,185792#remaining-content)

10) Hinrich
9) Snow
8) Kidd
7) Bowen
6) Artest
5) Mutombo
4) Duncan
3) Ben Wallace
2) Battier
1) KG

Wow, Kirk Hinrich on the list before Gary Payton. :facepalm:

phoenix_bladen
08-30-2009, 12:52 PM
We are missing Michael Jordan !!
He last played in 2003!!

bigsams50
08-30-2009, 01:48 PM
LoL hater. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj28VvPsjHk

Toenail Clipper
08-30-2009, 04:05 PM
Kirk is the best defender to exist in the NBA

mrblisterdundee
08-30-2009, 04:23 PM
I'd put Artest higher. If he concentrates, he has the ability to defend as will as Pippen in his prime.

Mave1002
08-30-2009, 10:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj28VvPsjHk

okay so what's your point here? he shouldnt be on the list because of that 1 play?

bigsams50
08-30-2009, 10:34 PM
okay so what's your point here? he shouldnt be on the list because of that 1 play?

no, i just dont think he plays top notch defense all the time,

zambo4president
08-30-2009, 10:40 PM
Kaptain Kirk!

DetroitRipCity
08-31-2009, 12:03 PM
Wallace has 4 DPOY awards the only person he should be behind if that is Mutombo

Mr.SmackYoMama
08-31-2009, 12:31 PM
Quick everyone name the best defender from your team in the last decade! :laugh2:

Im a Warriors fan we dont play defense!!! LOL Biedrins

No GP......His nickname was "The Glove" How is he not on this list??????