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View Full Version : Would 2003 T-mac led the 2001 Sixers to the Finals instead of Iverson?



JordansBulls
08-28-2009, 11:48 AM
Would 2003 T-mac led the 2001 Sixers to the Finals instead of Iverson?


I believe Iverson had something like 6-7 games of 40+ in the playoffs that year.

Raph12
08-28-2009, 11:54 AM
No IMO Tmac is too soft to handle that type of pressure Iverson was getting from the opposing teams on a daily basis. AI fought through and got his lackluster team to the Finals, now let's not ruin his only glory year by saying any plain old scorer can do the same. On some level, I doubt even Kobe Bryant could do it in his 2005-06 year. AI has the heart of a warrior and has been resilient and relentless his whole life, always fighting.

IBleedPurple
08-28-2009, 12:04 PM
a)t-mac would find a way to get hurt
b)t-mac is not a leader
c)that team was built for Iverson

Tom81
08-28-2009, 12:06 PM
No IMO Tmac is too soft to handle that type of pressure Iverson was getting from the opposing teams on a daily basis. AI fought through and got his lackluster team to the Finals, now let's not ruin his only glory year by saying any plain old scorer can do the same. On some level, I doubt even Kobe Bryant could do it in his 2005-06 year. AI has the heart of a warrior and has been resilient and relentless his whole life, always fighting.

agreed

JLynn943
08-28-2009, 12:12 PM
T-Mac has been surrounded with more talent than the '01 Sixers had (aside from Iverson) and still not gotten to the Finals, so I'll say no

Bluffmasta
08-28-2009, 12:37 PM
t-mac wouldn't of even got out of the first round

JordansBulls
08-28-2009, 12:44 PM
t-mac wouldn't of even got out of the first round

So you think he would have lost in round 1 as the 1st seed against the 8th seed?

Ace33Bone
08-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Iverson was just simply the man that year and I dont think T-Mac wouldve even help this team make it out of the second round that year

Raph12
08-28-2009, 01:01 PM
So you think he would have lost in round 1 as the 1st seed against the 8th seed?

If Tmac had this team he wouldn't have the 1st seed, Philly would have the 8th seed playing against the 1st seed lol. In all seriousness 2003 Tmac and AI's 2001 Sixers vs 2001 Reggie Miller and the Pacers. I'll take the Pacers in 7.

Tmac,lt,berkman
08-28-2009, 01:01 PM
t-mac is better than iverson but no

IversonIsKrazy
08-28-2009, 02:16 PM
T-Mac is overrated. AI is 10X the player he is now, has bin, and will be. If Philly was 1st seed though, T-Mac would be out in 2nd round. There is no way he would've played like the way AI did 4 Philly against the Raps.

JordansBulls
08-28-2009, 02:22 PM
If Tmac had this team he wouldn't have the 1st seed, Philly would have the 8th seed playing against the 1st seed lol. In all seriousness 2003 Tmac and AI's 2001 Sixers vs 2001 Reggie Miller and the Pacers. I'll take the Pacers in 7.

Reason I ask is because a lot say T-mac was the best player in 2003. He led the league in scoring, PER, and win shares.

Raph12
08-28-2009, 02:31 PM
Reason I ask is because a lot say T-mac was the best player in 2003. He led the league in scoring, PER, and win shares.

Arguable, I'd take Kobe over him, but even so, AI is a better leader, he's more resilient/relentless, he puts up points no matter what and he's 100-fold tougher than Tmac ever has been, all reasons why Tmac could never lead that team to glory. I doubt alot of HOF/HOF potential players could lead that team that far.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Easily, remember that team had the best defense in the conference, thats half the game right there and that half had NOTHING to do with AI. Tmac wouldve made that defense better and in his prime was a better offensive player. When you upgrade your star position your team can only get better.

AllTheWay
08-28-2009, 03:34 PM
Yes, basically for the reason Chronz said.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 03:36 PM
No IMO Tmac is too soft to handle that type of pressure Iverson was getting from the opposing teams on a daily basis. AI fought through and got his lackluster team to the Finals, now let's not ruin his only glory year by saying any plain old scorer can do the same. On some level, I doubt even Kobe Bryant could do it in his 2005-06 year. AI has the heart of a warrior and has been resilient and relentless his whole life, always fighting.
Too soft? Id rather have a guy whos soft but handles the opposing pressure from defenses better than a rugged chucker like AI. I know you like to portray the guy as a warrior but the game of basketball is simple. You dont need to be some sort of special fighter to win. AI shot 38% or something for that run to the Finals, he was consistently outplayed by the opposing teams star and he never took on the challenge of defending any of them (because he cant) Tmac has already proven capable of putting the clamps on whoever gets hot. Kobe and Tmac wouldve EASILY led that team to the finals given all those advantages better yet they wouldnt have let obviously inferior teams push them to the brink.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 03:37 PM
a)t-mac would find a way to get hurt
b)t-mac is not a leader
c)that team was built for Iverson
a Not in his prime
b doesnt have to be
c just another way to say chuck to your hearts content, that team was built for ANY star SG.


If Tmac had this team he wouldn't have the 1st seed, Philly would have the 8th seed playing against the 1st seed lol. In all seriousness 2003 Tmac and AI's 2001 Sixers vs 2001 Reggie Miller and the Pacers. I'll take the Pacers in 7.
Cute but totally unwarranted.


T-Mac is overrated. AI is 10X the player he is now, has bin, and will be. If Philly was 1st seed though, T-Mac would be out in 2nd round. There is no way he would've played like the way AI did 4 Philly against the Raps.
LOL **** why stop at 10x? Why not go for 100 while your at it?

Raps08-09 Champ
08-28-2009, 03:40 PM
If T-Mac was the leader of that team, we would have been in the ECF.

Shady66
08-28-2009, 03:40 PM
I dont think he could, hes never been out of the first round with yao ming, i doubt he could do it with dike

JordansBulls
08-28-2009, 04:02 PM
If T-Mac was the leader of that team, we would have been in the ECF.

Vince vs T-mac in a series where both players would have been the best on their teams.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 04:03 PM
If T-Mac was the leader of that team, we would have been in the ECF.

More like ousted in 5 instead of 7, he was missing 20 shots on the regular, he looked downright sad in the losses. Your team already struggled to score vs that defense, imagine if you replace AI with Tmac, Vince wouldve been held in check.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 04:04 PM
I dont think he could, hes never been out of the first round with yao ming, i doubt he could do it with dike
Thats really the extent of your analysis? A 1 player switch? No attempt to account for the change in conferences, teammates around those players, point in Tmacs career. Wow, I hope your not an Eminem fan.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-28-2009, 04:21 PM
More like ousted in 5 instead of 7, he was missing 20 shots on the regular, he looked downright sad in the losses. Your team already struggled to score vs that defense, imagine if you replace AI with Tmac, Vince wouldve been held in check.

I don't think T-Mac would have dropped 50 point in that series once. And Iverson was MVP that year and I don't think a 2003 T-Mac is as good as Iverson's MVP year.

ko8e24
08-28-2009, 04:26 PM
No because at the time, AI was the best offensive player in the nba hands down (yes, better than shaq who was 2nd, kobe who was 3rd, and duncan who was 4th),and T-Mac was great offensively, but he wasn't "HARD" to guard in 03 like AI was from 1999-2005.

Shady66
08-28-2009, 04:28 PM
Thats really the extent of your analysis? A 1 player switch? No attempt to account for the change in conferences, teammates around those players, point in Tmacs career. Wow, I hope your not an Eminem fan.

You hope im not an eminem fan because I dont think the same way you do about basketball?

weak.

slaker619
08-28-2009, 04:32 PM
Fuwk No

goku
08-28-2009, 04:40 PM
No because at the time, AI was the best offensive player in the nba hands down (yes, better than shaq who was 2nd, kobe who was 3rd, and duncan who was 4th),and T-Mac was great offensively, but he wasn't "HARD" to guard in 03 like AI was from 1999-2005.

tracy and allen were both hard as hell to guard back then allen iverson was to quick and used streetball handles to break down defenders and tracy was to big he simply shoot over players back since he had fresher legs either way they both were impossible to guard but to answer your question t-mac could lead his was out of paper bag

Reyes6
08-28-2009, 04:44 PM
JB, by Iverson I hope you mean MUTOMBO

JordansBulls
08-28-2009, 04:46 PM
No because at the time, AI was the best offensive player in the nba hands down (yes, better than shaq who was 2nd, kobe who was 3rd, and duncan who was 4th),and T-Mac was great offensively, but he wasn't "HARD" to guard in 03 like AI was from 1999-2005.

You do realize that offense is more than just scoring ppg. It is about assists, efficiency, fg%, etc.

Ragan
08-28-2009, 05:07 PM
No way no how not even close. T-Mac had better supporting casts in Toronto, Orlando, and Houston and has never gotten out of the first round. T-Mac was a great player no doubt but that team was built for AI and AI only. The starting roster was Eric Snow, AI, Geroge Lynch, Tyrone Hill, and Mutombo/Ratliff with Aaron McKie as the 6th man. Are you kidding? Besides Mutombo who was past his prime, which one of those players has ever been considered above-average or had success elsewhere? Without the MVP AI, that team would get run off the court by the 09 Sixers, let alone make the finals. Larry Brown had everyone bought into the strategy that if the other 4 could hold off on the defensive end and make a couple open jumpers, AI could handle the rest, and he did.

This thread is dumb.

Ragan
08-28-2009, 05:09 PM
You do realize that offense is more than just scoring ppg. It is about assists, efficiency, fg%, etc.

Yea but you realize AI was more than simply ppg, right?

blazerman
08-28-2009, 05:15 PM
TMac couldnt lead a pack of hungry wolves to meat!

SteveNash
08-28-2009, 05:17 PM
T-Mac has been surrounded with more talent than the '01 Sixers had (aside from Iverson) and still not gotten to the Finals, so I'll say no

Tmac also had to go up against better teams.

Tmac could have probably done it. Hell AI was the worse superstar in NBA history and he did. Don't see why McGrady couldn't.


Yea but you realize AI was more than simply ppg, right?

He had turnovers. And don't forget steals, he was a really could defender because of all the steals he racked up.

what54!?
08-28-2009, 05:17 PM
Seeing how he's never been able to get out of the first round, gotta say no

theuuord
08-28-2009, 05:18 PM
He was had turnovers.

this sounds like something a LOLcat would say.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't think T-Mac would have dropped 50 point in that series once. And Iverson was MVP that year and I don't think a 2003 T-Mac is as good as Iverson's MVP year.

Youd be wrong, there was nothing superior about AI's game than a PRIME Tmac. Why would you doubt Tmac's ability to score 50? Actually Ill abolish that notion after but first of all why must he score 50 to win? Its sad that the only thing people have to rave about AI are his point totals. Efficiency, rebounding, defense play no role in his contributions that you have isolate the one thing he was good at. Tmac would find more ways to win a game and wouldnt cost his team as many with his ballhoggery.

Tmac at his peak was capable of dropping 46 on a team better defensively than AI's own team. So lets review, Toronto was what a middling team defensively, AI dropped 54 on 39 shots, Tmac drops 46 on 26shots against a top 3 defensive team yet you THINK he wouldnt be capable of tearing the Raptors defense apart?

Dude I love our little spats and all, but do me a favor and never debate on Tmac related matters. Its clear your Toronto bias has affected you more than you let on.

Chronz
08-28-2009, 05:29 PM
Yea but you realize AI was more than simply ppg, right?
LOL Like what?

Raps08-09 Champ
08-28-2009, 06:03 PM
Youd be wrong, there was nothing superior about AI's game than a PRIME Tmac. Why would you doubt Tmac's ability to score 50? Actually Ill abolish that notion after but first of all why must he score 50 to win? Its sad that the only thing people have to rave about AI are his point totals. Efficiency, rebounding, defense play no role in his contributions that you have isolate the one thing he was good at. Tmac would find more ways to win a game and wouldnt cost his team as many with his ballhoggery.

Tmac at his peak was capable of dropping 46 on a team better defensively than AI's own team. So lets review, Toronto was what a middling team defensively, AI dropped 54 on 39 shots, Tmac drops 46 on 26shots against a top 3 defensive team yet you THINK he wouldnt be capable of tearing the Raptors defense apart?

Dude I love our little spats and all, but do me a favor and never debate on Tmac related matters. Its clear your Toronto bias has affected you more than you let on.


I wasn't even a fan of the Raptors until like 6 years ago. Past T-Mac and Carter's main years. Anything they did back then, I don't really care about.

NYCZSAGE
08-28-2009, 07:07 PM
Tmaccccccccc

IversonIsKrazy
08-28-2009, 10:37 PM
This is ridiculous. T-Mac nvr had the heart that AI had. Ai got to the rim no matter what. He out up 2 50+ point performances, and in game 7 of that series, had 26pts 15ass. No way T-mac could've done that. Over the years, the careers, and even now, Allen Iverson has bin and always will be better than T-Mac. If T-Mac lead that team, the would've bin kicked out of the 2nd round. But first of all, they would've nvr gotten the 1st seed.

dre1990
08-28-2009, 10:50 PM
No, AI was very special that yeat

roshan3ai
08-28-2009, 11:15 PM
a)t-mac would find a way to get hurt
b)t-mac is not a leader
c)that team was built for Iverson

true

TheMicrowave
08-29-2009, 12:44 AM
Would 2003 T-mac led the 2001 Sixers to the Finals instead of Iverson?


I believe Iverson had something like 6-7 games of 40+ in the playoffs that year.

What does this have to do with anything?

The 2003 T-Mac? The 2001 sixers? This is a whack thread my man.

TheMicrowave
08-29-2009, 12:46 AM
This is ridiculous. T-Mac nvr had the heart that AI had. Ai got to the rim no matter what. He out up 2 50+ point performances, and in game 7 of that series, had 26pts 15ass. No way T-mac could've done that. Over the years, the careers, and even now, Allen Iverson has bin and always will be better than T-Mac. If T-Mac lead that team, the would've bin kicked out of the 2nd round. But first of all, they would've nvr gotten the 1st seed.

No one is going to take your post seriously about Iverson when your name is him. You love him.

T-Mac will never get out of the first round. He never has and never will. T-Mac is the biggest loser of all time.
Iverson is like T-Mac though, they always lost and cried a lot and make excuses for everything.

JordansBulls
08-29-2009, 12:56 AM
Yea but you realize AI was more than simply ppg, right?

Oh, so he had high efficiency?

jbone808
08-29-2009, 01:11 AM
tmac did have a team built around him in orlando that had a lot more players than ai did in philly..tmac didn't do nothing with them..so absolutely NO he could not lead the sixers in 01 like the ANSWER did

Chronz
08-29-2009, 03:04 AM
tmac did have a team built around him in orlando that had a lot more players than ai did in philly..tmac didn't do nothing with them..so absolutely NO he could not lead the sixers in 01 like the ANSWER did

O RLY? name this superior supporting cast.

JordansBulls
08-29-2009, 09:58 AM
O RLY? name this superior supporting cast.

2007 where he had HCA against the Jazz.

Chronz
08-29-2009, 12:40 PM
This is ridiculous. T-Mac nvr had the heart that AI had. Ai got to the rim no matter what. He out up 2 50+ point performances, and in game 7 of that series, had 26pts 15ass. No way T-mac could've done that. Over the years, the careers, and even now, Allen Iverson has bin and always will be better than T-Mac. If T-Mac lead that team, the would've bin kicked out of the 2nd round. But first of all, they would've nvr gotten the 1st seed.

your crazy Tmac wouldve done so much more than that. His run was pathetic, the reasons were stated beforehand. Nothing impressive about chucking, playing no d, and getting outplayed by every star and not being able to do anything to check them. Id rank AI's run to the Finals up there with Reggie Millers in the 00s.

end debate

Chronz
08-29-2009, 12:43 PM
2007 where he had HCA against the Jazz.
He said Orlando, and we already know about that team not being as good as the Jazz despite the HCA. When your best teammate and the teams MVP defensively are rendered useless defensively its hard to win. The Jazz were stacked

Anyways thats for another day, he was talking about Orlando. Id like to know what years did he have better support than AI.

marlinsfan24
08-29-2009, 12:47 PM
T-Mac has to be the most hated player on this board. I basically agree with everything Chronz said

CELTICS4LYFE
08-29-2009, 02:06 PM
no! he cant even win in the po wit a good team nevermind one wit bums

IversonIsKrazy
08-29-2009, 03:26 PM
T-Mac in '03 had a Mike Miller who avged over 16ppg, and Grant Hill who avged over 14ppg. In '02, he had Mike avging over 15ppg, and Hill avging over 16ppg. In '04 he had Howard who avged 17ppg. In '05-'09 hes had Yao Ming, a C who can give u 20/10. He had HCA, and still managed to lose in game 7 @ home with an elite C.

AI in '01, the 2nd leading scorer was Mutombo who avged less than 12ppg, and made it to the finals avging 33ppg, 6apg, 5rpg, and 2.1 spg. In '02, his duo avged 12ppg (Coleman) and lost in 7 games against Boston. In '03, he had a 16ppg scorer Van Horn, but he avged less than 10ppg in the playoffs, making it even harder again for AI, but still made it to the semi-finals to lose in 7 against NOH. In 2000, they lost to the stacked Eastern CHamps in 7 in the semi's while his 2nd leading scorer was McKie who avged less than 13ppg. Year b4, made it to semis and lost to the same team. AI had made it past the first round with a sh ! t team for 4 years, T-mac hasnt gotten out once.

theuuord
08-29-2009, 03:29 PM
T-Mac has to be the most hated player on this board. I basically agree with everything Chronz said

That category definitely has belonged to LeBron for the last few months, but T-Mac is up there for sure.

JordansBulls
08-29-2009, 03:44 PM
He said Orlando, and we already know about that team not being as good as the Jazz despite the HCA. When your best teammate and the teams MVP defensively are rendered useless defensively its hard to win. The Jazz were stacked

Anyways thats for another day, he was talking about Orlando. Id like to know what years did he have better support than AI.

False

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/series?series=houuth


http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/columnists/anthony_greg_35.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/hou.gif(In 6)
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/columnists/broussard_chris_35.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/hou.gif(In 7)
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/columnists/hollinger_john_35.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/hou.gif(In 6)
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/columnists/sheridan_chris_35.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/hou.gif(In 6)
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/columnists/stein_marc_35.jpghttp://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/hou.gif(In 6)

http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/2006/conf_quarter_stats.html


I honestly felt the series was going to go 7 games myself and it did.

mrblisterdundee
08-29-2009, 03:51 PM
People forget about how much Iverson got to the line, which is one of the biggest reasons he was so successful while shooting such a low percentage. McGrady's success would depend on his ability to stop the clock and drop shots at the charity stripe. It doubtful he'd be able to equal Iverson, because he's more injury prone and simply not as good at getting fouled.

Chronz
08-29-2009, 10:47 PM
T-Mac has to be the most hated player on this board. I basically agree with everything Chronz said
You have no idea how rare of an occurrence this is for me given the subject, most of Florida hates the guys guts for admitting what everyone already knew but nobody wanted to mention. The whole superstar isnt trying hard in a lost season has happened to soo many of the games greats its hard to hold it against a lesser player like Tmac.

Chronz
08-29-2009, 10:51 PM
False

I honestly felt the series was going to go 7 games myself and it did.
lol I said for another day aka thread. This is solely about Orlando Mac, isnt that why you specified this year? Ive never seen anyone sabotage his own thread, can we stay on the subject?

Chronz
08-29-2009, 10:55 PM
T-Mac in '03 had a Mike Miller who avged over 16ppg, and Grant Hill who avged over 14ppg................
Anyone wanna take a crack at what his first mistake was?

If this is the best Iverson supporter here then its clear bias has conquered over logic on the matter.

Chronz
08-29-2009, 11:11 PM
People forget about how much Iverson got to the line, which is one of the biggest reasons he was so successful while shooting such a low percentage. McGrady's success would depend on his ability to stop the clock and drop shots at the charity stripe. It doubtful he'd be able to equal Iverson, because he's more injury prone and simply not as good at getting fouled.
Ive never forgotten, for the amount of ballhandling and overall possession count he requires to get to the foul line, its not that impressive.

For instance Tmac in that season, got to the line 9.7x a game, AI got there 10.1, the kicker is that Tmac not only took less shots, but more 3's and did this all in less playing time. He shot better from the field this overall diversity and quality in Tmac's game that year allowed him to post an incredibly low turnover rate, something AI could not avoid committing given his reckless playing style, all those forays to the rim got him in trouble regularly, he played with heart because it never deterred him, but it would have never been a problem to begin with for Tmac.

You clearly overrate AI's ability to get to the line, for to even be an advantage in comparison to the rest of Tmacs offensive superiority it would have to occur at a far higher rate. Considering Tmac sports the far higher TS% its not possible. I havent even mentioned Tmacs impressive offensive rebounding for his position due to his size (again something AI lacked). Overall his efficiency completely DWARFS AI's best season of the handcheck era.

When you upgrade your star position this much on BOTH ENDS, your team is always better for it.

tland22
08-30-2009, 02:53 AM
T-Mac in '03 had a Mike Miller who avged over 16ppg, and Grant Hill who avged over 14ppg. In '02, he had Mike avging over 15ppg, and Hill avging over 16ppg. In '04 he had Howard who avged 17ppg. In '05-'09 hes had Yao Ming, a C who can give u 20/10. He had HCA, and still managed to lose in game 7 @ home with an elite C.

AI in '01, the 2nd leading scorer was Mutombo who avged less than 12ppg, and made it to the finals avging 33ppg, 6apg, 5rpg, and 2.1 spg. In '02, his duo avged 12ppg (Coleman) and lost in 7 games against Boston. In '03, he had a 16ppg scorer Van Horn, but he avged less than 10ppg in the playoffs, making it even harder again for AI, but still made it to the semi-finals to lose in 7 against NOH. In 2000, they lost to the stacked Eastern CHamps in 7 in the semi's while his 2nd leading scorer was McKie who avged less than 13ppg. Year b4, made it to semis and lost to the same team. AI had made it past the first round with a sh ! t team for 4 years, T-mac hasnt gotten out once.

WOW this cant really be ur argument against TMAC can it? OMG lol...thats really ur "better cast" argument? hahahaha keep humoring me

u do know that grant hill only played a COMBINED 47 games from 2000-2003 right? That is 4 years....47 games LOL....

jj24
08-30-2009, 03:55 AM
nope david stern wouldn't of let it happen. he wouldnt of let someone beat his beloved lakers

Mave1002
08-30-2009, 07:11 AM
No he'd be on the injured list.

Mave1002
08-30-2009, 07:13 AM
nope david stern wouldn't of let it happen. he wouldnt of let someone beat his beloved lakers

Another hater here. hahaha. You make us famous. Thanks for that;)

JordansBulls
08-30-2009, 09:02 AM
No he'd be on the injured list.

That has no application here. He wasn't injured when it mattered in 2003.