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View Full Version : PSD Eastern Conference Semifinals Round (#2 Orlando vs. #3 Cleveland)



JordansBulls
08-20-2009, 04:34 PM
Orlando Magic Have Homecourt Advantage in this Series



SEMIFINALS

Orlando vs. Cleveland
Winner: Vote here!

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From now on, each poll will have a voting time of 7 days. This applies to each matchup until an NBA Champion has been determined.

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FIRST ROUND

Boston vs. Chicago
Winner: Boston, 4-1 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398255)

Toronto vs. Atlanta
Winner: Toronto, 4-2 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398261)




Orlando vs. Miami
Winner: Orlando, 4-1 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398259)

Cleveland vs. Washington
Winner: Cleveland, 4-1 (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398258)



The total of votes for each team will be counted (all 4 options together) and the team with the higher total wins. Eventually, the result will be the option with the most votes (out of 4 options) of the team that has the most votes altogether.



Example:

If the option which has been voted most out of all 8 in the poll is "New York in 6" (20 votes), it doesn't necessarily mean that New York has won. If New York has 50 votes (New York in 4, 5, 6 & 7 altogether), but Charlotte has 55 votes (Charlotte in 4, 5, 6 & 7 altogether), Charlotte is the winner, although it didn't have the most votes in any of its 4 single options. The option with the most votes of the winner (Charlotte) is the final result.

Let's say:
New York in 4 = 10 votes
New York in 5 = 5 votes
New York in 6 = 20 votes
New York in 7 = 15 votes
Total = 50 votes

Now lets say Charlotte has
Charlotte in 4 = 12
Charlotte in 5 = 13
Charlotte in 6 = 17
Charlotte in 7 = 13
Total = 55 votes
The winner would be Charlotte in 6 since they would have the most votes total overall and thus the option for them that was voted the most is Charlotte in 6 would become the final result.


EASTERN CONFERENCE - Regular Season

Click the team name for poll results. The 8 best records in each conference have been determined. According to league rules, the seedings are as follows

(1) Boston (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=395762) - Atlantic Division
(2) Orlando (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396028) - Southeast Division
(3) Cleveland (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396442) - Central Division
(4) Toronto (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=396538) - Atlantic Division
(5) Atlanta (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397088) - Southeast Division
(6) Washington (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397452) - Southeast Division
(7) Miami (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397715) - Southeast Division
(8) Chicago (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398005) - Central Division

Gibby23
08-20-2009, 04:47 PM
I think Orlando takes this in 6. Shaq cant run the floor with Howard. The Cavs still don't have a player that can guard Lewis. The cavs still have to account for Vince and Nelson. Orlando also has a much better bench.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 04:48 PM
I think the Cavs win.

The Cavs have guys like Moon and Parker at the wing for defense instead of Pavlovic and Szczerbiak so I think it might be eaiser to guard their wings.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 04:49 PM
I think Orlando takes this in 6. Shaq cant run the floor with Howard. The Cavs still don't have a player that can guard Lewis. The cavs still have to account for Vince and Nelson. Orlando also has a much better bench.

Lebron can guard Lewis and Parker can guard Vince. They aren't obviously going to lock them down but it is still better than last year.

Gibby23
08-20-2009, 04:52 PM
I think the Cavs win.

The Cavs have guys like Moon and Parker at the wing for defense instead of Pavlovic and Szczerbiak so I think it might be eaiser to guard their wings.

They also have Jameer coming back, he was really the All Star instead of Mo last year.

jrice9
08-20-2009, 04:55 PM
I think the Cavs win.

The Cavs have guys like Moon and Parker at the wing for defense instead of Pavlovic and Szczerbiak so I think it might be eaiser to guard their wings.


Lebron can guard Lewis and Parker can guard Vince. They aren't obviously going to lock them down but it is still better than last year.

We are both Raptor fans right?

Have you seen Moon and Parker on defense recently. Moon cant play one on one, he plays for the flashy blocks and steals and Parker is slowing down.

We've seen Parker guard Vince and it isnt pretty.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 04:55 PM
They also have Jameer coming back, he was really the All Star instead of Mo last year.

True.

I guess we will find out.

I think if this happens, this will be the best series out of the whole playoffs(If Lebron and Kobe doesn't happen).

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 04:58 PM
We are both Raptor fans right?

Have you seen Moon and Parker on defense recently. Moon cant play one on one, he plays for the flashy blocks and steals and Parker is slowing down.

We've seen Parker guard Vince and it isnt pretty.

They are decent.

I never liked Moon but it was because of his offense. I thought his defense was okay. Parker is still okay. I mean Cortney Lee did a decent job in the playoffs and I don;t think Lee is that better of a defender than Parker or Moon.

I obviously don't think they will shut them down but they should be decent.

It's better than Pavlovic and Szczerbiak.

WITZ
08-20-2009, 05:00 PM
I think the cavs got this in 6.Now with turk gone that size advantage is gone & bass is more of a traditional PF so varejao won't have to be chasing him around as he did with rashard.Plus the additions of Moon & Parker add much needed size to the team and both are decent defenders and well we all saw what Dwight did to Z, that won't happen to Shaq.

Gibby23
08-20-2009, 05:04 PM
I think the cavs got this in 6.Now with turk gone that size advantage is gone & bass is more of a traditional PF so varejao won't have to be chasing him around as he did with rashard.Plus the additions of Moon & Parker add much needed size to the team and both are decent defenders and well we all saw what Dwight did to Z, that won't happen to Shaq.

That mismatch worked so well last year in the favor of Orlando, done be suprised if they exploit it with a line up like this:

Nelson
Petrius
Carter
Lewis
Howard

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 05:09 PM
That mismatch worked so well last year in the favor of Orlando, done be suprised if they exploit it with a line up like this:

Nelson
Petrius
Carter
Lewis
Howard

Ya but last year, they didn't have anyone else other than Lebron and West on the wings.

I can see a lineup like this for the Cavs.

C-Shaq
PF-James
SF-Moon
SG-Parker
PG-Mo

I still think that overall, the Magic have a better lineup in that situation than the Cavs bu it takes away that mismatch.

WITZ
08-20-2009, 05:10 PM
That mismatch worked so well last year in the favor of Orlando, done be suprised if they exploit it with a line up like this:

Nelson
Petrius
Carter
Lewis
Howard

Ya but this season the cavs have a line-up to Counter with size and defense.But I wouldn't be surprised if the Magic did move Rashard back to PF.
Mo or west
parker
Moon
LeBron
Shaq

Reddd
08-20-2009, 05:18 PM
I say Magic in 6

Raph12
08-20-2009, 05:29 PM
They are decent.

I never liked Moon but it was because of his offense. I thought his defense was okay. Parker is still okay. I mean Cortney Lee did a decent job in the playoffs and I don;t think Lee is that better of a defender than Parker or Moon.

I obviously don't think they will shut them down but they should be decent.

It's better than Pavlovic and Szczerbiak.

Moon plays defense like Lebron, chills back, doesn't play tight and waits for a steal or a block, except Lebron is alot quicker/athletic so it works better for him. Lebron can't guard Shard, Shard scored 18+ppg, shot 49+% from the field and 48+% from the arc, Lebron didn't even faze him on offense. I agree Parker is an okay defender, but I've seen him guard VC and like someone said earlier, it isn't pretty, not to mention he's 34 turning 35 before the playoffs so he'll be slower than usual also. Lee plays tough no matter what, while Moon slacks and Parker's on the decline, Lee in 2-3 years will be better than both of those guys in every aspect easy.

Szcerbiak and Pavolovic barely got any gametime against the Magic, Dwight outdid Ilgauskus and Varejao, Shard was unaffected by Lebron and Hedo did well with a midget (West) guarding him. Dwight will still outdo Shaq, Shard will still be unaffected by Lebron and VC will tear up anyone who guards him IMO.

Magic in 6.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Moon plays defense like Lebron, chills back, doesn't play tight and waits for a steal or a block, except Lebron is alot quicker/athletic so it works better for him. Lebron can't guard Shard, Shard scored 18+ppg, shot 49+% from the field and 48+% from the arc, Lebron didn't even faze him on offense. I agree Parker is an okay defender, but I've seen him guard VC and like someone said earlier, it isn't pretty, not to mention he's 34 turning 35 before the playoffs so he'll be slower than usual also. Lee plays tough no matter what, while Moon slacks and Parker's on the decline, Lee in 2-3 years will be better than both of those guys in every aspect easy.

Szcerbiak and Pavolovic barely got any gametime against the Magic, Dwight outdid Ilgauskus and Varejao, Shard was unaffected by Lebron and Hedo did well with a midget (West) guarding him. Dwight will still outdo Shaq, Shard will still be unaffected by Lebron and VC will tear up anyone who guards him IMO.

Magic in 6.

I think that was actually Rashards worst series if you look at all of his series stats. And Lebron only guarded him in the clutch. Lewis was making his shots earlier when he had Varajao guarding him.

I've also seen Moon shut down Carter. And I mean literally shut down. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281212017

I know that your team is better than last year but I would still think than the Cavs this year match up way better than last year.

WITZ
08-20-2009, 05:40 PM
In 3 games we played the nets last year Vince shot:

1)3-12
2)11-23
3)7-21

looks guard-able to me.

still1ballin
08-20-2009, 05:48 PM
Orl in 6

todu82
08-20-2009, 05:57 PM
Cleveland in 6.

Raph12
08-20-2009, 06:12 PM
I think that was actually Rashards worst series if you look at all of his series stats. And Lebron only guarded him in the clutch. Lewis was making his shots earlier when he had Varajao guarding him.

I've also seen Moon shut down Carter. And I mean literally shut down. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281212017

I know that your team is better than last year but I would still think than the Cavs this year match up way better than last year.

This was Shard's better offensive series, which is why I said "on offense" several times in my post. Lebron guarded him and Pietrus for most of the games and both guys lit him up while he guarded them, so basically Lebron can't guard either of them lol, Turk lit up West and Shard is a better offensive player than Turk so I'm sure Lewis could do the same and he could also just post down Parker or Moon.

I wouldn't take Carter's stats seriously in NJ, because there he was the only serious scoring threat, in Orlando he is the 2nd or arguably 3rd behind Dwight and Shard, while Nelson can drop points easily also. He has better players surrounding him, which makes double-teaming him harder and makes one-on-one plays easier for VC. I've seen him play on the Nets and score 20+/30+ points with double and triple teams all game, so I'm sure taking guys one-on-one shouldn't be too difficult for him.

True the Cavs do match up better this year with Shaq, Moon and Parker, but Shaq/Parker are both older, Dwight and VC could outrun them and score alot of points of dunks/layups in the fast break, while Shard, Nelson and Pietrus hit the wings and pockets and drill open 3s. The matchups are closer than last year, but I still see the Magic taking them in 6, 7 if Lebron gets most of his calls.

ARMIN12NBA
08-20-2009, 06:12 PM
The Magic in 6.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 06:20 PM
This was Shard's better offensive series, which is why I said "on offense" several times in my post. Lebron guarded him and Pietrus for most of the games and both guys lit him up while he guarded them, so basically Lebron can't guard either of them lol, Turk lit up West and Shard is a better offensive player than Turk so I'm sure Lewis could do the same and he could also just post down Parker or Moon.

I wouldn't take Carter's stats seriously in NJ, because there he was the only serious scoring threat, in Orlando he is the 2nd or arguably 3rd behind Dwight and Shard, while Nelson can drop points easily also. He has better players surrounding him, which makes double-teaming him harder and makes one-on-one plays easier for VC. I've seen him play on the Nets and score 20+/30+ point with double and triple teams all game, so I'm sure taking guys one-on-one shouldn't be too difficult for him.

True the Cavs do match up better this year with Shaq, Moon and Parker, but Shaq/Parker are both older, Dwight and VC could outrun them and score alot of dunks in the fast break, while Shard, Nelson and Pietrus hit the wings and pockets and drill open 3s. The matchups are closer than last year, but I still see the Magic taking them in 6, 7 if Lebron gets most of his calls.

Lebron also had to play supervisor for everyone else so maybe it affected his play on defense. He also had to work his *** off on offense. He has more options now so he can probably focus on defense more.

Wouldn't that mean Carter averages less points? Cuz no chance he averages 20 PPG with everyone else on the Magic. I know that points don't necessarily show someones offense but he wouldn't me as much of an offensive threat if he only scored 17 PPG.

The Magic pretty much had Howard in the paint while everyone picked a spot in the 3 point line and waited till someone left them to help on Howard. With Shaq, he can still hold him better than Varajao and Z.

PrettyBoyJ
08-20-2009, 06:41 PM
orlando beat them this year and exposed their defense.. they gonna beat them again and Vince carter and Lebron will go at it

Raph12
08-20-2009, 06:56 PM
Lebron also had to play supervisor for everyone else so maybe it affected his play on defense. He also had to work his *** off on offense. He has more options now so he can probably focus on defense more.

Wouldn't that mean Carter averages less points? Cuz no chance he averages 20 PPG with everyone else on the Magic. I know that points don't necessarily show someones offense but he wouldn't me as much of an offensive threat if he only scored 17 PPG.

The Magic pretty much had Howard in the paint while everyone picked a spot in the 3 point line and waited till someone left them to help on Howard. With Shaq, he can still hold him better than Varajao and Z.

I don't know why people see Lebron as a good defender, he is a lazy defender who just goes for steals and blocks when he gets the chance. Lebron had offensive options last year in Williams and West, but he hogged the ball alot, hold onto it for 23 seconds then dish or chuck as shot costing the Cavs several possesions, which prevented Williams and West from getting into any sort of rhythem. Who's to say he won't do the same thing again this year.

He'll probably avg 17ppg in the season, but if the Cavs play good defense on the other players on the Magic and VC is the only one who can score efficiently, his avg will be alot higher in the series than his season avg. Ie. Dwight avged 21ppg in the season, 16ppg in the Finals because of Bynum and Gasol, 16ppg against Boston because of Perkins and Davis and 24ppg against Philly because of their weak frontcourt. What a player avgs in the season is not a show of what they'll avg in the playoffs, whichever teams are easier to score against, certain players will score more, whichever teams harder to score against those players will score less and their teammates will do more.

Shaq can't hold Dwight any better than Varejao or Ilgauskus could IMO. He avged 20ppg against Phoenix, while avging 18ppg against Cleveland in the season and 26ppg against Cleveland in the playoffs. You can never tell from season games how they'll fare in the playoffs. Dwight kicked up his game in the playoffs and demanded the ball alot more than he did in the season. Yet his stats against Shaq was better than his stats against Cleveland in the season. If anything Shaq will be an obstacle which Dwight could drive by on offense. Not to mention that with Dwight and VC on the fastbreaks could be a difference-maker against the Cavs with Shaq and Parker's speed being a factor. With a 5-on-4 everytime on a fastbreak, Dwight, VC, Shard, Nelson or Pietrus could get an easily layup/dunk/open look.

Like I said it may be more intense but I still can't see the Cavs winning.

Mavrix
08-20-2009, 06:56 PM
Cleveland in 7

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Here's all I'm going to say.

Magic improved, Cavaliers improved. Both made major changes and aren't the same team as last year.

How they perform with their new team, no one knows.

So let's wait for the season to start.

WITZ
08-20-2009, 07:07 PM
I don't know why people see Lebron as a good defender, he is a lazy defender who just goes for steals and blocks when he gets the chance. Lebron had offensive options last year in Williams and West, but he hogged the ball alot, hold onto it for 23 seconds then dish or chuck as shot costing the Cavs several possesions, which prevented Williams and West from getting into any sort of rhythem. Who's to say he won't do the same thing again this year.

He'll probably avg 17ppg in the season, but if the Cavs play good defense on the other players on the Magic and VC is the only one who can score efficiently, his avg will be alot higher in the series than his season avg. Ie. Dwight avged 21ppg in the season, 16ppg in the Finals because of Bynum and Gasol, 16ppg against Boston because of Perkins and Davis and 24ppg against Philly because of their weak frontcourt. What a player avgs in the season is not a show of what they'll avg in the playoffs, whichever teams are easier to score against, certain players will score more, whichever teams harder to score against those players will score less and their teammates will do more.

Shaq can't hold Dwight any better than Varejao or Ilgauskus could IMO. He avged 20ppg against Phoenix, while avging 18ppg against Cleveland in the season and 26ppg against Cleveland in the playoffs. You can never tell from season games how they'll fare in the playoffs. Dwight kicked up his game in the playoffs and demanded the ball alot more than he did in the season. Yet his stats against Shaq was better than his stats against Cleveland in the season. If anything Shaq will be an obstacle which Dwight could drive by on offense. Not to mention that with Dwight and VC on the fastbreaks could be a difference-maker against the Cavs with Shaq and Parker's speed being a factor. With a 5-on-4 everytime on a fastbreak, Dwight, VC, Shard, Nelson or Pietrus could get an easily layup/dunk/open look.

Like I said it may be more intense but I still can't see the Cavs winning.

Yes he can big Z got tossed around like a rag doll & as for lebron ball hogging there were countless times were he would give it up to Mo who couldn't hit an open shot to save his life.Delonte was the only one who actually played decent.Maybe lebron decided to take over the game since he was averaging 41-8-7 something like that*exception of the last game* while the rest of the team was not making many shots.The Cavs had a real problem matching up with turk & Rashard both 6-10 &the bench scoring as seen by Pietrus outscoring them all. But Shaq won't get outta the way when dwight starts tossing those elbows around & Shaq will probably be in his head since he apparently gets his feelings hurt over what he says.

Raph12
08-20-2009, 07:32 PM
Yes he can big Z got tossed around like a rag doll & as for lebron ball hogging there were countless times were he would give it up to Mo who couldn't hit an open shot to save his life.Delonte was the only one who actually played decent.Maybe lebron decided to take over the game since he was averaging 41-8-7 something like that*exception of the last game* while the rest of the team was not making many shots.The Cavs had a real problem matching up with turk & Rashard both 6-10 &the bench scoring as seen by Pietrus outscoring them all. But Shaq won't get outta the way when dwight starts tossing those elbows around & Shaq will probably be in his head since he apparently gets his feelings hurt over what he says.

Big Z was never "tossed around" Dwight would constantly just drive by him due to his lack of speed, something he and Shaq have in common.

Well then here is a stat for you, every time Lebron scored 40+ in the series, Cavs lost, everytime Mo Williams score 20+ they won, I wonder why that is hmm... when Lebron hogs, other players don't get involved so they lose any significant rhythem they were in.

Pietrus was guarded by Lebron 90% of the time, with West on Turk and Varejao/Lebron on Lewis, so what is that saying for Lebron's defense?

"Shaq won't get outta the way when dwight starts tossing those elbows around" Actually that is exactly what Shaq will do, flop and then get dunked on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifDl0fNDEr0

WITZ
08-20-2009, 08:05 PM
Big Z was never "tossed around" Dwight would constantly just drive by him due to his lack of speed, something he and Shaq have in common.

Well then here is a stat for you, every time Lebron scored 40+ in the series, Cavs lost, everytime Mo Williams score 20+ they won, I wonder why that is hmm... when Lebron hogs, other players don't get involved so they lose any significant rhythem they were in.

Pietrus was guarded by Lebron 90% of the time, with West on Turk and Varejao/Lebron on Lewis, so what is that saying for Lebron's defense?

"Shaq won't get outta the way when dwight starts tossing those elbows around" Actually that is exactly what Shaq will do, flop and then get dunked on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifDl0fNDEr0

I don't know what series U were watching but anyone could see Z was getting tossed around any time Dwight posted up he was pushing Z on his way to the basket it doesn't help that Z is like half of what dwight weighs.Mo got 12+ shots in every game and he has 1 good game and actually made his shots lets see...

3 point shots
1)6-19 2-8
2)7-21 1-6
3)5-16 3-10
4)5-15 0-3
5)7-14 6-9
6)6-12 3-4

Lebron ball hogged so much he was only able to get 12 plus shots... maybe if he woulda made some more consistenly like towards the end he woulda got more shots.The teams are a lot more even matched this year so I just wanna see how it plays out with rashard most likely moving to SF & bass to PF just saying we match-up a lot better this year.

LakePackYank
08-20-2009, 08:29 PM
Magic in 5. Cavs did not really make any significant changes to their team beside getting a 39 year old shaq and a few role players that are barely better then wally and pavlovic.

MagicBucsSox
08-20-2009, 08:33 PM
anyone seen that dwight video,he's working on a jumpshot.uh ohhhh

Raps18-19 Champ
08-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Big Z was never "tossed around" Dwight would constantly just drive by him due to his lack of speed, something he and Shaq have in common.

Well then here is a stat for you, every time Lebron scored 40+ in the series, Cavs lost, everytime Mo Williams score 20+ they won, I wonder why that is hmm... when Lebron hogs, other players don't get involved so they lose any significant rhythem they were in.

Pietrus was guarded by Lebron 90% of the time, with West on Turk and Varejao/Lebron on Lewis, so what is that saying for Lebron's defense?

"Shaq won't get outta the way when dwight starts tossing those elbows around" Actually that is exactly what Shaq will do, flop and then get dunked on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifDl0fNDEr0

Williams was just plan horrible in the Magic season. He got 37%. Sure he scored 18 PPG but in 37%!

I'm not getting your point about West guarding Turkoglu and Lebron guarding Lewis.

Here is what I don't get. How can you people really blame Lebron for their lost?

Raph12
08-20-2009, 10:31 PM
Williams was just plan horrible in the Magic season. He got 37%. Sure he scored 18 PPG but in 37%!

I'm not getting your point about West guarding Turkoglu and Lebron guarding Lewis.

Here is what I don't get. How can you people really blame Lebron for their lost?

Mo Williams never really got into a rhythem in the ECFs and Lebron is to blame for that. Lebron tried to do more than necessary taking Williams out of his usual game.

West guarded Turk poorly, Lebron guarded Pietrus poorly and Varejao/Lebron guarded Lewis poorly. My point is Lebron has poor d and West can't d up anyone too tall and with Turk gone, Lewis will play SF, so either Lebron guards him or West does, either way Shard will score his points.

On alot of possesions Lebron was caught just dribbling the ball for 21 seconds as his team would just stand there watching, with the last 3 seconds on the shot clock, Lebron would either bulldoze his way in, pullup for an off-balance jumper or dish to a player and expect them to hit the shot after standing around doing nothing for 21+ seconds. During the season Lebron wouldn't dribble the ball up the court all the time, he would often run around and try to make plays without the ball, something that was non-existant in the ECFs, this techniques would get all of his teammates involved which would get everyone into a rhythem offensively, whereas in the ECFs everyone was just expected to catch-and-shoot all game long.

IversonIsKrazy
08-20-2009, 11:06 PM
Its all match-ups. If Bass starts, Cavs win, if Lewis starts as PF, Magic win.

If Lewis does become PF though, IMO, Cavs should start LeBron as PF, and C is SHaq. This would be very very entertaining though, Shaq VS Dwight. I think it would be the first time Shaq would play a playoff game in Orlando since he signed with the Lakers.

PG: Mo = Nelson
SG: Parker < Vince
SF: LeBron > Lewis
PF: Varejo = Bass
C: Shaq < Dwight

PG: Boobie < Watson? Williams?
SG: West = Pietrus
SF: Moon = Barnes
PF: ? = ?
C: Big Z > Gortat

Orlando is only a LITTLE better, but if Orlando gets HCA, i got then winning in 7.

sNaKeS
08-20-2009, 11:38 PM
Its all match-ups. If Bass starts, Cavs win, if Lewis starts as PF, Magic win.

If Lewis does become PF though, IMO, Cavs should start LeBron as PF, and C is SHaq. This would be very very entertaining though, Shaq VS Dwight. I think it would be the first time Shaq would play a playoff game in Orlando since he signed with the Lakers.

PG: Mo = Nelson
SG: Parker < Vince
SF: LeBron > Lewis
PF: Varejo = Bass
C: Shaq < Dwight

PG: Boobie < Watson? Williams?
SG: West = Pietrus
SF: Moon = Barnes
PF: ? = ?
C: Big Z > Gortat

Orlando is only a LITTLE better, but if Orlando gets HCA, i got then winning in 7.

I'll pretend I don't see "Mo = Nelson", but everything else is right sort of. I think SVG would have lewis at the PF and either Pietrus or Barnes at SF to disturb lebron and that is where the magic will win this series because they have 2 players who are very physical and very lengthy to disrupt him. I'll show you what I think the matchups will be.

PG: Mo = Nelson (According to you); Mo < Nelson (According to me)
SG: Parker < Vince
SF: Lebron > Pietrus/Barnes
PF: Varejao < Lewis
C: Shaq < Howard

PG: Boobie < Williams/Johnson (Not sure who SVG uses here)
SG:West > Reddick (I think he's our backup SG at the moment)
SF: Moon = Pietrus/Barnes (According to you); Moon < Pietrus/Barnes (According to me)
PF: ? < Bass/Anderson (Might change my mind if I knew who their backup PF is)
C: Big Z > Gortat (According to you); Big Z = Gortat (According to me)

I'm not calling you out or anything, this is just what I see. These rosters may and probably will change this year with injuries and the trade deadline.

Raph12
08-20-2009, 11:51 PM
I'll pretend I don't see "Mo = Nelson", but everything else is right sort of. I think SVG would have lewis at the PF and either Pietrus or Barnes at SF to disturb lebron and that is where the magic will win this series because they have 2 players who are very physical and very lengthy to disrupt him. I'll show you what I think the matchups will be.

PG: Mo = Nelson (According to you); Mo < Nelson (According to me)
SG: Parker < Vince
SF: Lebron > Pietrus/Barnes
PF: Varejao < Lewis
C: Shaq < Howard

PG: Boobie < Williams/Johnson (Not sure who SVG uses here)
SG:West > Reddick (I think he's our backup SG at the moment)
SF: Moon = Pietrus/Barnes (According to you); Moon < Pietrus/Barnes (According to me)
PF: ? < Bass/Anderson (Might change my mind if I knew who their backup PF is)
C: Big Z > Gortat (According to you); Big Z = Gortat (According to me)

I'm not calling you out or anything, this is just what I see. These rosters may and probably will change this year with injuries and the trade deadline.

:clap: Agreed, this is most likely the route SVG will take, causing more than enough problems for the Cavs. Plus I wouldn't be surprised to see SVG put Shard at the 3 and Anderson at the 4 to make Varejao a non-factor on defense again (he'll be busy at the 3pt line). These matchups got me saying Magic in 6.

dre1990
08-20-2009, 11:52 PM
Orlando in 5

sNaKeS
08-21-2009, 12:43 AM
anyone seen that dwight video,he's working on a jumpshot.uh ohhhh

This is all a moot point because if dwight develops a jump shot (which we saw him doing more often this year in the playoffs) then he is hands down the best center in the nba and makes even more matchup problems for not only the cavs but any nba team trying to guard him.

Raph12
08-21-2009, 12:55 AM
This is all a moot point because if dwight develops a jump shot (which we saw him doing more often this year in the playoffs) then he is hands down the best center in the nba and makes even more matchup problems for not only the cavs but any nba team trying to guard him.

does anyone have the link for this jumpshot video?

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 12:57 AM
Mo Williams never really got into a rhythem in the ECFs and Lebron is to blame for that. Lebron tried to do more than necessary taking Williams out of his usual game.

West guarded Turk poorly, Lebron guarded Pietrus poorly and Varejao/Lebron guarded Lewis poorly. My point is Lebron has poor d and West can't d up anyone too tall and with Turk gone, Lewis will play SF, so either Lebron guards him or West does, either way Shard will score his points.

On alot of possesions Lebron was caught just dribbling the ball for 21 seconds as his team would just stand there watching, with the last 3 seconds on the shot clock, Lebron would either bulldoze his way in, pullup for an off-balance jumper or dish to a player and expect them to hit the shot after standing around doing nothing for 21+ seconds. During the season Lebron wouldn't dribble the ball up the court all the time, he would often run around and try to make plays without the ball, something that was non-existant in the ECFs, this techniques would get all of his teammates involved which would get everyone into a rhythem offensively, whereas in the ECFs everyone was just expected to catch-and-shoot all game long.

Did you just watch that or do you have the memory to remember exact plays 3 months ago? How is it Lebron's fault Williams wasn't making shots? Are you 100% sure that it took Lebron 21 seconds? Am I to believe Lebron is a big of a dumbass to lose track of time and pass it when it is 3 seconds left?

How is Lebron have horrible D? Do you watch hours of Lebron videos or are you just saying that because they lost and couldn't match up to an offense he had hard time covering?

And even if Lebron did in fact use the 20 seconds or whatever you assumed, you act like Lebron will do that next post season. If Lebron did in fact do everything you have said, wouldn't Lebron learn from it?

sNaKeS
08-21-2009, 01:19 AM
does anyone have the link for this jumpshot video?

http://img269.yfrog.com/i/h16.mp4/

It might be uncontested and shot over a shorter player, but that is what he will be seeing in the games anyway. They can either go guard him and leave the lane wide open or they stay in the lane and dwight gets an open jumper. Either way, if he can make them.......look out.

Raph12
08-21-2009, 01:22 AM
Did you just watch that or do you have the memory to remember exact plays 3 months ago? How is it Lebron's fault Williams wasn't making shots? Are you 100% sure that it took Lebron 21 seconds? Am I to believe Lebron is a big of a dumbass to lose track of time and pass it when it is 3 secods left?

How is Lebron have horrible D? Do you watch hours of Lebron videos or are you just saying that because they lost?

And even if Lebron did in fact use the 20 seconds or whatever you assumed, you act like Lebron will do that next post season. If Lebron did in fact do everything you have said, wouldn't Lebron learn from it?

1st of all, I follow the Magic, Cavs, Lakers, Spurs and Celtics religiously, I have every game on tape and watch some of them over if they were good enough and I still keep an eye on a few select other teams.

I'm of course exaggerating when I say he held onto it for 21 secs on every possession, my point is that he would dribble the ball around alot instead of working without the ball which is something he did often throughout the season and the 1st/2nd round. This took Mo Williams out of his game, because he was used to having the ball in his hands more, otherwise we could just name Mo the Cavs SG-A. Now I'm not saying it is entirely Lebron's fault as Mo should have been a professional and learned to adapt, Mike Brown is also to blame for letting it continue all series and Lebron is without-a-doubt also at fault.

Lebron's defense is very lazy, he is an avg defender at best who plays the passing lanes and tries to catch people from behind on blocks. He will play tight defense in the last 4-6 mins of a game, but is never consistant with it throughout.

You're absolutely right, one would assume Lebron would learn from it, but Lebron didn't shake hands or talk to the media and felt the he was right in not doing so, even to this day. Everyone got on him and said that he shouldn't have done it and it was bad sportsmanship, but one month later he had the tapes taken away in a scrimmage game at his camp, where he was dunked-on by Jordan Crawford, showing he didn't learn anything from his previous mistakes.

That is what I mean, you never know what will happen in the future and I'm not gonna put my neck out for Lebron, let's just say he isn't well known for learning from his mistakes. IMO if the Cavs play a team that is superior to them in every form (Magic last year), it may become 1v5 faster than you think.

ARMIN12NBA
08-21-2009, 01:24 AM
Did you just watch that or do you have the memory to remember exact plays 3 months ago? How is it Lebron's fault Williams wasn't making shots? Are you 100% sure that it took Lebron 21 seconds? Am I to believe Lebron is a big of a dumbass to lose track of time and pass it when it is 3 seconds left?

How is Lebron have horrible D? Do you watch hours of Lebron videos or are you just saying that because they lost and couldn't match up to an offense he had hard time covering?

And even if Lebron did in fact use the 20 seconds or whatever you assumed, you act like Lebron will do that next post season. If Lebron did in fact do everything you have said, wouldn't Lebron learn from it?

Lebron did a lot of that ball hogging, stat inflating possession usage during the 2007-2008 season (only 45 wins). He also did that a few times during the NBA season. He did it against the Bucks I believe and against the Knicks just from memory. Both games ended up being close.

I actually made a post saying that the Cavs were in trouble if Lebron kept playing like this. There was a NOTICEABLE trend. Lebron passes more and plays through the offense and the Cavs were successful. When he was hell-bent on stats, the team suffered. I wrote that this was fine during the regular season against scrub teams, but when they face a "Celtics" or "Magic" team, then they would lose.

Lebron didn't learn. IMO, he was very much trying to "one-up" Kobe. Kobe was being successful in the WCF and, of course, the puppet commercials about rings. Lebron did the same thing against the Knicks. He was selfish to try to one-up Kobe and the team had a close battle. Kobe, unlike Lebron, just played with the flow.

Lebron, clearly, wanted to make it known that there was no question he was the best. He was going to have god-like stats and win. Stupidly, he didn't realize (although this was a proven trend) that the team suffered when he was selfish. The Cavs would lose. The supporting players were cold and Lebron didn't revert his ways.

If he hasn't learned by now, who is to say he will ever learn?

Raph12
08-21-2009, 01:31 AM
http://img269.yfrog.com/i/h16.mp4/

It might be uncontested and shot over a shorter player, but that is what he will be seeing in the games anyway. They can either go guard him and leave the lane wide open or they stay in the lane and dwight gets an open jumper. Either way, if he can make them.......look out.

NICE! Thank for the vid man, DAMN!!! 10 of 13 mid range jumpers made (some contested, some off-balance), 9 of 12 freethrows made. If this is signs of what we see in game, Dwight could have a breakout season next year offensively and that only means trouble for all of the other teams in the NBA.

sNaKeS
08-21-2009, 01:32 AM
Lebron did a lot of that ball hogging, stat inflating possession usage during the 2007-2008 season (only 45 wins). He also did that a few times during the NBA season. He did it against the Bucks I believe and against the Knicks just from memory. Both games ended up being close.

I actually made a post saying that the Cavs were in trouble if Lebron kept playing like this. There was a NOTICEABLE trend. Lebron passes more and plays through the offense and the Cavs were successful. When he was hell-bent on stats, the team suffered. I wrote that this was fine during the regular season against scrub teams, but when they face a "Celtics" or "Magic" team, then they would lose.

Lebron didn't learn. IMO, he was very much trying to "one-up" Kobe. Kobe was being successful in the WCF and, of course, the puppet commercials about rings. Lebron did the same thing against the Knicks. He was selfish to try to one-up Kobe and the team had a close battle. Kobe, unlike Lebron, just played with the flow.

Lebron, clearly, wanted to make it known that there was no question he was the best. He was going to have god-like stats and win. Stupidly, he didn't realize (although this was a proven trend) that the team suffered when he was selfish. The Cavs would lose. The supporting players were cold and Lebron didn't revert his ways.

If he hasn't learned by now, who is to say he will ever learn?

:clap: Thank you! Everyone assumes that lebron is going to learn from his mistakes and become a better player because of it. I'm a firm believer of "show me what you learned, don't tell me" and that's what I will wait for from lebron. We'll see if he can even get a .500 record against the magic, celtics, and lakers this year then maybe he has learned but lets wait and see about that.

sNaKeS
08-21-2009, 01:33 AM
NICE! Thank for the vid man, DAMN!!! 10 of 13 mid range jumpers made (some contested, some off-balance), 9 of 12 freethrows made. If this is signs of what we see in game, Dwight could have a breakout season next year offensively and that only means trouble for all of the other teams in the NBA.

25-30 ppg, 13+ rpg, 2+ bpg = mvp discussion.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:34 AM
1st of all, I follow the Magic, Cavs, Lakers, Spurs and Celtics religiously, I have every game on tape and watch some of them over if they were good enough and I still keep an eye on a few select other teams.

I'm of course exaggerating when I say he held onto it for 21 secs on every possession, my point is that he would dribble the ball around alot instead of working without the ball which is something he did often throughout the season and the 1st/2nd round. This took Mo Williams out of his game, because he was used to having the ball in his hands more, otherwise we could just name Mo the Cavs SG-A. Now I'm not saying it is entirely Lebron's fault as Mo should have been a professional and learned to adapt, Mike Brown is also to blame for letting it continue all series and Lebron is without-a-doubt also at fault.

Lebron's defense is very lazy, he is an avg defender at best who plays the passing lanes and tries to catch people from behind on blocks. He will play tight defense in the last 4-6 mins of a game, but is never consistant with it throughout.

You're absolutely right, one would assume Lebron would learn from it, but Lebron didn't shake hands or talk to the media and felt the he was right in not doing so, even to this day. Everyone got on him and said that he shouldn't have done it and it was bad sportsmanship, but one month later he had the tapes taken away in a scrimmage game at his camp, where he was dunked-on by Jordan Crawford, showing he didn't learn anything from his previous mistakes.

That is what I mean, you never know what will happen in the future and I'm not gonna put my neck out for Lebron, let's just say he isn't well known for learning from his mistakes. IMO if the Cavs play a team that is superior to them in every form (Magic last year), it may become 1v5 faster than you think.

Lebron still averaged 8 APG. I would think at least 3 would have gone to Williams.

Well If you want to blame him then fine but I'm not gonna blame him when he works everything off.

Is it possible Lebron wasn't use to the Magic's offense? To me, he did pretty good throughout the season overall against most teams. I mean everyone has problems when it comes to certain offense.

I agree Lebron should have shaked hands buy he didn't technically break any rules. He also said he would have talked to the media. And he said he had no part in diong of the dunk videos. All in here. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-breaks-silence-on-Dunkgate-hands?urn=nba,181361

The superior team doesn't win every time. You can't deny that the Cavs were probably better than the Magic last year. The Magic beat the Cavs in 6. This year, people think the Magic is better. Maybe the Cavs win in 6 this time. We will never know until we wait.

ARMIN12NBA
08-21-2009, 01:39 AM
Lebron still averaged 8 APG. I would think at least 3 would have gone to Williams.

Well If you want to blame him then fine but I'm not gonna blame him when he works everything off.

Is it possible Lebron wasn't use to the Magic's offense? To me, he did pretty good throughout the season overall against most teams. I mean everyone has problems when it comes to certain offense.

Iverson averaged as many assists during the year when he hogged the ball even more. Assists are not, at all, an indication selflessness. Lebron's assists came because of the fact he was handling the ball so much. He used his teammates as safety nets when he couldn't score himself. That is NOT how an offense and their offense runs. He went against the offensive scheme and he simply blew it.

How did that hurt Lebron in running his own offensive set correctly?

ARMIN12NBA
08-21-2009, 01:40 AM
25-30 ppg, 13+ rpg, 2+ bpg = mvp discussion.

AKA Shaq's 2000 MVP season numbers.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:48 AM
Lebron did a lot of that ball hogging, stat inflating possession usage during the 2007-2008 season (only 45 wins). He also did that a few times during the NBA season. He did it against the Bucks I believe and against the Knicks just from memory. Both games ended up being close.

I actually made a post saying that the Cavs were in trouble if Lebron kept playing like this. There was a NOTICEABLE trend. Lebron passes more and plays through the offense and the Cavs were successful. When he was hell-bent on stats, the team suffered. I wrote that this was fine during the regular season against scrub teams, but when they face a "Celtics" or "Magic" team, then they would lose.

Lebron didn't learn. IMO, he was very much trying to "one-up" Kobe. Kobe was being successful in the WCF and, of course, the puppet commercials about rings. Lebron did the same thing against the Knicks. He was selfish to try to one-up Kobe and the team had a close battle. Kobe, unlike Lebron, just played with the flow.

Lebron, clearly, wanted to make it known that there was no question he was the best. He was going to have god-like stats and win. Stupidly, he didn't realize (although this was a proven trend) that the team suffered when he was selfish. The Cavs would lose. The supporting players were cold and Lebron didn't revert his ways.

If he hasn't learned by now, who is to say he will ever learn?

You actually believe Lebron didn't try to pass the ball? Has it ever occurred that maybe Lebron tried to pass it and they weren't producing so he had to score himself? I agree that Lebron did hold the ball a lot but if your team isn't producing, what are you going to do?

That was all the hype of the media. Lebron said he didn't care about trying to 1 up Kobe and I didn't believe him to be honest. But how did Lebron not learn? He didn't try to show up anyone in the ECF. Lebron was in the same situation Wade was in the finals. His team didn't produce so they tried to take over. Lebron couldn't get it done like Wade but I mean what are you going to do when your team isn't producing? I mean if you are 1 of the best and you tried to keep passing it to your team mates and you know they aren't producing, am I going to do it myself or will I keep trying to bring my team into this? Becaus if he kept on trying to bring his team in instead of doing a lot by himself, I guarantee it would have been 4-0 instead of 4-2.

Again, why would Lebron try to bring his team in when they weren't producing? He might as well just give up. I mean Kobe' team wasn't producing so he had to score 81 points to beat the Raptors. I know that Kobe wins more if he scores a lot of points than Lebron but it is still the same situation. You can't blame Lebron for trying to take over himself when most people knew his team couldn't help. Because if he didn't try to take over, the Cavs wouldn't even have won 1 game.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:52 AM
Iverson averaged as many assists during the year when he hogged the ball even more. Assists are not, at all, an indication selflessness. Lebron's assists came because of the fact he was handling the ball so much. He used his teammates as safety nets when he couldn't score himself. That is NOT how an offense and their offense runs. He went against the offensive scheme and he simply blew it.

How did that hurt Lebron in running his own offensive set correctly?

Fine assist don't show the whole story but I mean no one is that stupid to try and not bring their team into the series. Lebron even wanted Pavlovic and Szszerbiak to play. That is how much Lebron needed help. I'm just saying that you can't blame it on Lebron if his team didn't produce.

It didn't. The rest of the team just plain out sucked. I was saying that just because Lebron didn't hold the Magic down, doesn't mean he sucks at defense. He did pretty good defense against other teams too.

Raph12
08-21-2009, 01:55 AM
Lebron still averaged 8 APG. I would think at least 3 would have gone to Williams.

Well If you want to blame him then fine but I'm not gonna blame him when he works everything off.

Is it possible Lebron wasn't use to the Magic's offense? To me, he did pretty good throughout the season overall against most teams. I mean everyone has problems when it comes to certain offense.

I agree Lebron should have shaked hands buy he didn't technically break any rules. He also said he would have talked to the media. And he said he had no part in diong of the dunk videos. All in here. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-James-breaks-silence-on-Dunkgate-hands?urn=nba,181361

The superior team doesn't win every time. You can't deny that the Cavs were probably better than the Magic last year. The Magic beat the Cavs in 6. This year, people think the Magic is better. Maybe the Cavs win in 6 this time. We will never know until we wait.

Each designated player is required to talk to the media after every playoff game, which Lebron didn't do therefore breaking the rules which he was initially supposed to be fined for. Which was later retracted, due to the dick-sucking of the NBA executives.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4232264
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4222452

Just because he said he had nothing to do with it doesn't mean he didn't, one of the cameramen, Ryan Miller, said this about the situation:

After the Jordan Crawford dunk, however, LeBron James chatted with Lynn Merritt who confiscated the tape.

"There's nothing I can think of besides LeBron just not wanting it online,"
http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/jordan-crawford-dunk-lebron-james-nike-confiscates-tape

You are right though, we should just wait and see what happens next season. The NBA, where amazing happens.


ADDED:


Iverson averaged as many assists during the year when he hogged the ball even more. Assists are not, at all, an indication selflessness. Lebron's assists came because of the fact he was handling the ball so much. He used his teammates as safety nets when he couldn't score himself. That is NOT how an offense and their offense runs. He went against the offensive scheme and he simply blew it.

How did that hurt Lebron in running his own offensive set correctly?

:clap: Agreed, absolutely right on the money.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:58 AM
:clap: Thank you! Everyone assumes that lebron is going to learn from his mistakes and become a better player because of it. I'm a firm believer of "show me what you learned, don't tell me" and that's what I will wait for from lebron. We'll see if he can even get a .500 record against the magic, celtics, and lakers this year then maybe he has learned but lets wait and see about that.

Assumption plays a big part around the world

You assume the Magic would beat the Cavs but will you actually stop posting and wait until 9 months have passed?

ARMIN12NBA
08-21-2009, 02:00 AM
You actually believe Lebron didn't try to pass the ball? Has it ever occurred that maybe Lebron tried to pass it and they weren't producing so he had to score himself? I agree that Lebron did hold the ball a lot but if your team isn't producing, what are you going to do?

That was all the hype of the media. Lebron said he didn't care about trying to 1 up Kobe and I didn't believe him to be honest. But how did Lebron not learn? He didn't try to show up anyone in the ECF. Lebron was in the same situation Wade was in the finals. His team didn't produce so they tried to take over. Lebron couldn't get it done like Wade but I mean what are you going to do when your team isn't producing? I mean if you are 1 of the best and you tried to keep passing it to your team mates and you know they aren't producing, am I going to do it myself or will I keep trying to bring my team into this? Becaus if he kept on trying to bring his team in instead of doing a lot by himself, I guarantee it would have been 4-0 instead of 4-2.

Again, why would Lebron try to bring his team in when they weren't producing? He might as well just give up. I mean Kobe' team wasn't producing so he had to score 81 points to beat the Raptors. I know that Kobe wins more if he scores a lot of points than Lebron but it is still the same situation. You can't blame Lebron for trying to take over himself when most people knew his team couldn't help. Because if he didn't try to take over, the Cavs wouldn't even have won 1 game.

My theory is the converse: I believe Lebron trying to score so much himself is actually what CAUSED his teammates to get cold. They were shell-shocked by the sudden change in Offensive sets/schemes and Lebron was a totally different player. He was way more hell-bent on dominating himself.

I explained this earlier. The trend seems to be that when Lebron dominates the ball a lot early in the game, his teammates kind of fade away and get lost in the background. That is what happened in the ECF in my opinion.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:04 AM
Each designated player is required to talk to the media after every playoff game, which Lebron didn't do therefore breaking the rules which he was initially supposed to be fined for. Which was later retracted, due to the dick-sucking of the NBA executives.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4232264
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/news/story?id=4222452

Just because he said he had nothing to do with it doesn't mean he didn't, one of the cameramen, Ryan Miller, said this about the situation:

http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/jordan-crawford-dunk-lebron-james-nike-confiscates-tape

You are right though, we should just wait and see what happens next season. The NBA, where amazing happens.


ADDED:



:clap: Agreed, absolutely right on the money.

Fined or not, he did learn from his mistake and said he regrets not talking to the media.

That Miller guy also said that he confiscated the tapes right after. I have seen way more detailed articles saying they played 2-3 more games before the tape was confiscated. Right after can mean 3 hours to some people. Are we positive that Miller was 100% honest. Kobe said no chance he cared if he won a title without Shaq. Are we all suppose to believe that? Would you not care if millions of people around the world say the only reason you win is because of Shaq. Just because Kobe says that, doesn't mean it makes it true. But a lot of people think that he really doesn't care.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:10 AM
My theory is the converse: I believe Lebron trying to score so much himself is actually what CAUSED his teammates to get cold. They were shell-shocked by the sudden change in Offensive sets/schemes and Lebron was a totally different player. He was way more hell-bent on dominating himself.

I explained this earlier. The trend seems to be that when Lebron dominates the ball a lot early in the game, his teammates kind of fade away and get lost in the background. That is what happened in the ECF in my opinion.

Maybe they were shell shocked because they caught off guard on how easy it was to beat the Pistons and Hawks and how hard it is to verse the Magic. During the first game, I saw Lebron trying to bring in his team. It didn't work. His team was giving up a lot of 3 pointer on defense too. So maybe he had no choice but to hog the ball.

The Magic had early lead in most games if I am not corrected. And it wasn't until Lebron tried to do more himself that the score was close. Lebron played 44 minutes that series, I think that Lebron did if fact try to start the Cavs up but it didn't work so he got frustrated and has to do more himself

Raph12
08-21-2009, 02:15 AM
Fined or not, he did learn from his mistake and said he regrets talking to the media.

That Miller guy also said that he confiscated the tapes right after. I have seen way more detailed articles saying they played 2-3 more games before the tape was confiscated. Right after can mean 3 hours to some people. Are we positive that Miller was 100% honest. Kobe said no chance he cared if he won a title without Shaq. Are we all suppose to believe that? Would you not care if millions of people around the world say the only reason you win is because of Shaq. Just because Kobe says that, doesn't mean it makes it true. But a lot of people think that he really doesn't care.

The media sucks on Lebron's nut all day, obviously you can find more media coverage of him not caring. I would like to believe the guy who had an unbiased opinion in the matter (to my knowledge). Why would he blame it on Lebron instead of Nike? Why would he lie? It just doesn't seem to add up to me.


My theory is the converse: I believe Lebron trying to score so much himself is actually what CAUSED his teammates to get cold. They were shell-shocked by the sudden change in Offensive sets/schemes and Lebron was a totally different player. He was way more hell-bent on dominating himself.

I explained this earlier. The trend seems to be that when Lebron dominates the ball a lot early in the game, his teammates kind of fade away and get lost in the background. That is what happened in the ECF in my opinion.

:clap:This is exactly what I thought, we seem to be thinking quite alike on this topic lol. Lebron didn't give his teammates a chance to get into any game dominating the ball early and often. This causes his teammates to get into a "stand around and watch mood" something Kobe's teammates were familiar with in 2005-2007 and AI's teammates were also familiar with in Philly. When one player dominates the ball too often, his teammates get cold and it is hard to bounce back.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:23 AM
The media sucks on Lebron's nut all day, obviously you can find more media coverage of him not caring. I would like to believe the guy who had an unbiased opinion in the matter (to my knowledge). Why would he blame it on Lebron instead of Nike? Why would he lie? It just doesn't seem to add up to me.


You know how much air time Miller is getting because of this? I mean he doesn't really have specific details as much as other articles.

Bring the details he said up to court and the judge would say there isn't enough evidence to prove Lebron wrong.

Wouldn't you also think magazines would pay a lot of money for stories about one of the biggest athletes around? I mean if I saw Lebron with another girl that wasn't his wife, magazines could pay me money to get my side of the story. Sure I can lie about some stuff but would I care as long as I am getting the money? I mean doesn't america go by the saying "innocent until proven guilty"? To me, I haven't seen enough evidence shown that he is guilty.

Raph12
08-21-2009, 02:38 AM
Maybe they were shell shocked because they caught off guard on how easy it was to beat the Pistons and Hawks and how hard it is to verse the Magic. During the first game, I saw Lebron trying to bring in his team. It didn't work. His team was giving up a lot of 3 pointer on defense too. So maybe he had no choice but to hog the ball.

The Magic had early lead in most games if I am not corrected. And it wasn't until Lebron tried to do more himself that the score was close. Lebron played 44 minutes that series, I think that Lebron did if fact try to start the Cavs up but it didn't work so he got frustrated and has to do more himself

It completely worked, they were up by 16 and looked like they had things locked down. In the beginning of the game, Lebron would work without the ball, scoring only when necessary, as soon as the Magic made a push, Lebron started to dominate the ball.

Nope your wrong, the Cavs led by 16 early in game 1 (Lebron's only good game he scored 40+ in); in game 2, 20 pt lead midway through the 2nd quarter (Lebron had 8), the Cavs won by 1 pt final (Lebron had 35); game 3, Cavs up by 5 pts in the 2nd quarter (Lebron had 14), Cavs lose by 12 pts final (Lebron had 41); game 4, the Cavs led by 8 halftime (Lebron had 17) they lost by 2 in OT (Lebron had 44); game 5 Lebron shares the ball more (12 assists with less shots attempted [24]) and Cavs win by 12; game six, complete and utter domination (Cavs gave up)

In games 2, 3 and 4, as soon as Lebron hogs, his team loses any ground they had on the Magic, costing them the game in game 3 and 4 and almost in game 2 (Lebron's game-winner, damn that was nice!). The Cavs worked as a unit last year and when one part started to malfunction (Lebron) the unit stopped working.

Btw he started the series scoring 49, 35, 44, 41 and 37, when did he ever give them (his teammates) a chance? He didn't have to do more all season, barely scoring above 28 while winning 66 games, but Kobe scores alot against the Rockets and now all-of-a-sudden Lebron has to score 40ppg to win?

Raph12
08-21-2009, 02:41 AM
You know how much air time Miller is getting because of this? I mean he doesn't really have specific details as much as other articles.

Bring the details he said up to court and the judge would say there isn't enough evidence to prove Lebron wrong.

Wouldn't you also think magazines would pay a lot of money for stories about one of the biggest athletes around? I mean if I saw Lebron with another girl that wasn't his wife, magazines could pay me money to get my side of the story. Sure I can lie about some stuff but would I care as long as I am getting the money? I mean doesn't america go by the saying "innocent until proven guilty"? To me, I haven't seen enough evidence shown that he is guilty.

So now were talking about the "Justice System of America" well despite this being WAY off-topic, our justice system is flawed. The more powerful guys (in this case Lebron) always get off the hook, they find ways to make evidence. If you don't believe me, just ask Kobe.

Sportfan
08-21-2009, 09:16 AM
I think the Cavs win.

The Cavs have guys like Moon and Parker at the wing for defense instead of Pavlovic and Szczerbiak so I think it might be eaiser to guard their wings.

Moon plays D?

I like the cavs here who is the magic's sf?

Ace33Bone
08-21-2009, 12:12 PM
I have to go with my boys on this one. I think LBJ has had too much time to reflect on this spanking that they took last year and will come out looking to draw blood against Orlando this year... I pray that this series actually takes place because we need to see if the King can defend his thrown against the team that came in and took away his Championship hopes last season

*Superman*
08-21-2009, 01:26 PM
Ill take the Magic in 6. I expect the Cavs to put up a better fight.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:35 PM
So now were talking about the "Justice System of America" well despite this being WAY off-topic, our justice system is flawed. The more powerful guys (in this case Lebron) always get off the hook, they find ways to make evidence. If you don't believe me, just ask Kobe.

That dunk was way off topic to begin with.

And I still haven't seen enough evidence that Lebron is guilty.

I took the same approach when Kobe was on trial too.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:39 PM
It completely worked, they were up by 16 and looked like they had things locked down. In the beginning of the game, Lebron would work without the ball, scoring only when necessary, as soon as the Magic made a push, Lebron started to dominate the ball.

Nope your wrong, the Cavs led by 16 early in game 1 (Lebron's only good game he scored 40+ in); in game 2, 20 pt lead midway through the 2nd quarter (Lebron had 8), the Cavs won by 1 pt final (Lebron had 35); game 3, Cavs up by 5 pts in the 2nd quarter (Lebron had 14), Cavs lose by 12 pts final (Lebron had 41); game 4, the Cavs led by 8 halftime (Lebron had 17) they lost by 2 in OT (Lebron had 44); game 5 Lebron shares the ball more (12 assists with less shots attempted [24]) and Cavs win by 12; game six, complete and utter domination (Cavs gave up)

In games 2, 3 and 4, as soon as Lebron hogs, his team loses any ground they had on the Magic, costing them the game in game 3 and 4 and almost in game 2 (Lebron's game-winner, damn that was nice!). The Cavs worked as a unit last year and when one part started to malfunction (Lebron) the unit stopped working.

Btw he started the series scoring 49, 35, 44, 41 and 37, when did he ever give them (his teammates) a chance? He didn't have to do more all season, barely scoring above 28 while winning 66 games, but Kobe scores alot against the Rockets and now all-of-a-sudden Lebron has to score 40ppg to win?

If that all did happen, I am pretty sure he learns then.

Raph12
08-21-2009, 01:54 PM
If that all did happen, I am pretty sure he learns then.

I would think that Shaq would knock some sense into him if he tries a repeat performance. But like I said you never know and even without hogging the ball, I feel Orlando is still superior to Cleveland anyways.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 01:59 PM
I would think that Shaq would knock some sense into him if he tries a repeat performance. But like I said you never know and even without hogging the ball, I feel Orlando is still superior to Cleveland anyways.

Shaq knocks sense into everyone. So I would expect guys like Moon to play their best and defend and slash.

The Magic and Cavs aren't the same team and they won't play the same so like we have both said, we will wait and see.

Raph12
08-21-2009, 01:59 PM
That dunk was way off topic to begin with.

And I still haven't seen enough evidence that Lebron is guilty.

I took the same approach when Kobe was on trial too.

No it wasn't, it was an example of Lebron not learning from his previous mistakes. Lebron was guilty IMO but Kobe was not. Kobe could nail almost any girl he wanted, so why would he rape his cleaning lady? didn't make sense to me, in comparison Lebron had a motive for confiscating the tapes, he is a poor sport, everyone knows that, if you believe he didn't that's your call, but I think you and Cavs fans are the only ones who'd think so.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:10 PM
No it wasn't, it was an example of Lebron not learning from his previous mistakes. Lebron was guilty IMO but Kobe was not. Kobe could nail almost any girl he wanted, so why would he rape his cleaning lady? didn't make sense to me, in comparison Lebron had a motive for confiscating the tapes, he is a poor sport, everyone knows that, if you believe he didn't that's your call, but I think you and Cavs fans are the only ones who'd think so.

Does 2-4 mistakes make you a poor sport? I guess if I make 2 mistakes and I own up to some of them, I'm still a poor sport. All the mistakes I can see is the media, handshake and dunk. He owned up to the media part, he didn't shake so I guess that is 1 mistake and there wasn't enough evidence to show Lebron did do it. I mean am I really going to trust a guy's word who people have never met before and could just be saying that for money and publicity.

And I mean what do you want? Lebron said he didn't do it. Most clear cut articles don't match what that Miller guy says. I mean would Lebron really care that he got dunked on? He is one of the best players in the game and you think he cares that he got dunked on(The dunked wasn't that impressive anyways). I don't see that much motivation for Lebron to do it. Why would he cover up a dunk that wasn't impressive? The only reason I can think of is the fact that he might not want the dunk out because haters would probably make it bigger than it already is but would Lebron really care about the haters?

Raph12
08-21-2009, 02:23 PM
Does 2-4 mistakes make you a poor sport? I guess if I make 2 mistakes and I own up to some of them, I'm still a poor sport. All the mistakes I can see is the media, handshake and dunk. He owned up to the media part, he didn't shake so I guess that is 1 mistake and there wasn't enough evidence to show Lebron did do it. I mean am I really going to trust a guy's word who people have never met before and could just be saying that for money and publicity.

And I mean what do you want? Lebron said he didn't do it. Most clear cut articles don't match what that Miller guy says. I mean would Lebron really care that he got dunked on? He is one of the best players in the game and you think he cares that he got dunked on(The dunked wasn't that impressive anyways). I don't see that much motivation for Lebron to do it. Why would he cover up a dunk that wasn't impressive? The only reason I can think of is the fact that he might not want the dunk out because haters would probably make it bigger than it already is but would Lebron really care about the haters?

No, but saying you didn't do anything wrong by not shaking hands because you're a "winner" does make you a poor sport. No amount of media coverage can get me to believe Lebron didn't confiscate the video, until Ryan Miller can confirm that Lebron didn't chat with the Nike executive, then I won't believe anything else. After the loss to the Magic, I lost alot of my respect for Lebron and I find it hard to trust anything he says in his defence. I like Dwight because he is a humble player with a small ego, which is why Tim Duncan is my 2nd favorite player, he may very well be the best PF of all-time but you'll never hear him say it. Humility is a very important characteristic for a role model to have. This is now too off-topic for me to continue the arguement any further, let's just wait and see what happens.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:28 PM
No, but saying you didn't do anything wrong by not shaking hands because you're a "winner" does make you a poor sport. No amount of media coverage can get me to believe Lebron didn't confiscate the video, until Ryan Miller can confirm that Lebron didn't chat with the Nike executive, then I won't believe anything else. After the loss to the Magic, I lost alot of my respect for Lebron and I find it hard to trust anything he says in his defence. I like Dwight because he is a humble player with a small ego, which is why Tim Duncan is my 2nd favorite player, he may very well be the best PF of all-time but you'll never hear him say it. Humility is a very important characteristic for a role model to have. This is now too off-topic for me to continue the arguement any further, let's just wait and see what happens.

This isn't about basketball but Muhammad Ali said numerous times he was the greatest of all time. Babe Ruth has said that. Yet they are the most loved athletes around even with all that talk they did.

But like we said, let's wait and see.

Gibby23
08-21-2009, 02:30 PM
Shaq knocks sense into everyone. So I would expect guys like Moon to play their best and defend and slash.
The Magic and Cavs aren't the same team and they won't play the same so like we have both said, we will wait and see.

No he doesn't. If Shaq isn't getting the ball as much as he feels he should, he won't play D or run hard. That is what kind of example he will set.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:32 PM
No he doesn't. If Shaq isn't getting the ball as much as he feels he should, he won't play D or run hard. That is what kind of example he will set.

Did you not see him call out Lopez last year because he wasn't playing properly.

Shaq is also more passive. He was more passive in Phoenix. Shaq played his *** off last year to become an All star again at ae 36-37. How is that not working hard?

MackSnackWrap
08-21-2009, 02:39 PM
Cavs will win in 6

elpirata224
08-21-2009, 02:43 PM
Orlando in 6 why?

PG: Jameer Nelson, Anthony Johnson, Jason Williams
SG: Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF: Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes
PF: Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson
C: Dwight "SUPERMAN" Howard, Marcin Gortat


our only weak spot is PF a 4 year veteran and a one year pro who put up similar numbers as Courtney lee except in Assist and Rebounds swap them

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 02:48 PM
Orlando in 6 why?

PG: Jameer Nelson, Anthony Johnson, Jason Williams
SG: Vince Carter, Mikhael Pietrus, JJ Redick
SF: Rashard Lewis, Matt Barnes
PF: Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson
C: Dwight "SUPERMAN" Howard, Marcin Gortat


our only weak spot is PF a 4 year veteran and a one year pro who put up similar numbers as Courtney lee except in Assist and Rebounds swap them

You do know there is only 240 minutes to go around?

You expect Anderson to get that much minutes when you have Peitrus, Barnes, and Gortat ahead of him.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-21-2009, 03:03 PM
Orlando again, this time in 6 games

JordansBulls
08-21-2009, 03:04 PM
This series will go 7 IMO.

stockchampion25
08-21-2009, 03:30 PM
That mismatch worked so well last year in the favor of Orlando, done be suprised if they exploit it with a line up like this:

Nelson
Petrius
Carter
Lewis
Howard

That mismatch worked because of a 6'9 SF that ran the PG roll and is now the "grease man" for another team now. Vince, nor anyone on that team, can run it as well as Hedo did last year for them.

The Magic did not beat the Cavs....the Cavs beat the Cavs. Last year was a fine example of why the Cavs need a better coach. Howard didnt need to be doubled, he doesnt have a low post games that deserves it. Every time we did it left a wide open 6'9 or 6'10 guy to shoot a 3 which is almost impossible to defend when coming out of a double team. Let the man go and try to get 40(it wont happen, ask the Lakers).

Shaq hasnt been brought in to STOP Howard but instead he is there to SLOW him and let us play straight up with them. It will be Moon/West/LBJ that VC has to deal with not Parker. And for all of you that dont know VC is a playoff choke artist so please dont bet the farm on that guy, unless you like giving your money away. Sasha shut him down 2 years back, held him to 35% from the floor for the entire series.

J Nelson was an allstar by default(injured Arenas and a rookie Rose). The are no "real" PG's in the east. And I mean that in the terms of no CP3, Nash or DWilliams. The East has Rose and Arenas which are the favs for the allstar game(and are really SG's) Rondo, Sessions, Harris and Calderon all have a better chance(IMO) of getting to the allstar game this year than Nelson does. That doesnt say much for Mo Williams but it is the truth. Mo didnt step up last year and this year might be different if he has any drive in him at all.

This Magic team is not the same as the team you all seen last year. And neither is the Cavs team. The Cavs have made the Finals with less and the Magic made it with more. Which is exactly why this year will be different than last year. Im taking all bets on this one.

Sportfan
08-21-2009, 03:44 PM
Im surprised that the cavs arent getting any love

ARMIN12NBA
08-21-2009, 06:26 PM
Maybe they were shell shocked because they caught off guard on how easy it was to beat the Pistons and Hawks and how hard it is to verse the Magic. During the first game, I saw Lebron trying to bring in his team. It didn't work. His team was giving up a lot of 3 pointer on defense too. So maybe he had no choice but to hog the ball.

The Magic had early lead in most games if I am not corrected. And it wasn't until Lebron tried to do more himself that the score was close. Lebron played 44 minutes that series, I think that Lebron did if fact try to start the Cavs up but it didn't work so he got frustrated and has to do more himself

And the Cavs had a 15 point lead at the half of the 1st game when Lebron was trying to bring in his team...Then he reverted to ball dominant Lebron in the 2nd half and the Cavs lost.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 06:32 PM
And the Cavs had a 15 point lead at the half of the 1st game when Lebron was trying to bring in his team...Then he reverted to ball dominant Lebron in the 2nd half and the Cavs lost.

Whatever happened last year, he isn't that stupid enough not to learn from it.

ARMIN12NBA
08-21-2009, 06:43 PM
Whatever happened last year, he isn't that stupid enough not to learn from it.

Two points.

1. Except that has happened in years past and he clearly still hasn't learned from it.

2. Lebron's obsession with statistics won't allow him to scale back him game for the good of the team. For him, money>stats>team.

LakePackYank
08-21-2009, 06:45 PM
Did you not see him call out Lopez last year because he wasn't playing properly.

Shaq is also more passive. He was more passive in Phoenix. Shaq played his *** off last year to become an All star again at ae 36-37. How is that not working hard?

you mean the same people that voted allen iverson an all star?

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 08:23 PM
you mean the same people that voted allen iverson an all star?

Shaq wasn't voted in though.

He had to work just to get in.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-21-2009, 08:28 PM
Two points.

1. Except that has happened in years past and he clearly still hasn't learned from it.

2. Lebron's obsession with statistics won't allow him to scale back him game for the good of the team. For him, money>stats>team.

1. Lebron's never had a legit team though. People don't even think he has a legit team now even though they improved. I mean when you have Big Z as your big man, you are pretty much doomed. In 2007, Lebron had to do everything himself and he actually got to the finals. I'm sure that he can do that again.

2. Wilt Chamberlain was also obsessed with stats. Never stopped him from succeeding.

JordansBulls
08-22-2009, 01:10 AM
I really want to see this series and the winner to play Boston.

LakePackYank
08-22-2009, 01:28 AM
I really want to see this series and the winner to play Boston.

raptors are winning in the other poll :laugh:

Lakersfan2483
08-22-2009, 01:44 AM
Orlando in 7 games.

ARMIN12NBA
08-22-2009, 03:16 AM
1. Lebron's never had a legit team though. People don't even think he has a legit team now even though they improved. I mean when you have Big Z as your big man, you are pretty much doomed. In 2007, Lebron had to do everything himself and he actually got to the finals. I'm sure that he can do that again.

2. Wilt Chamberlain was also obsessed with stats. Never stopped him from succeeding.

:laugh2: You do realize the flaw in your logic, right? The years in which Wilt had his best statistical years, his teams lost. The two years in which he won a championship were years in which he significantly scaled back his game. Remember the 1972 Lakers? They were famous for being an all-around team. Heck, Goodrich led that team in scoring, not even Wilt. Heck, Wilt wasn't even a top 3 scorer on that team.

Your statement actually proves my point to the fullest. Once Wilt scaled back his game in a HUGE way, his teams were more successful than ever.

Saint Brian
08-22-2009, 08:29 AM
Cavs in 6.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-22-2009, 01:22 PM
:laugh2: You do realize the flaw in your logic, right? The years in which Wilt had his best statistical years, his teams lost. The two years in which he won a championship were years in which he significantly scaled back his game. Remember the 1972 Lakers? They were famous for being an all-around team. Heck, Goodrich led that team in scoring, not even Wilt. Heck, Wilt wasn't even a top 3 scorer on that team.

Your statement actually proves my point to the fullest. Once Wilt scaled back his game in a HUGE way, his teams were more successful than ever.

Really? I must have read the wrong season stats then.

But I mean if Chamberlain learned, Lebron should learn too. Lebron's no Marbury. I mean he is only 24/25, he has at least 10 years ahead of him. He'll learn sooner or later.

Mile High Champ
08-22-2009, 02:44 PM
I like the cavs in 6. Picking up Parker and Shaq were two great ways to upgrade the roster. Really like the cavs this year to back to the finals..

Pa1nl3ss
08-22-2009, 04:53 PM
Cavs in 6 if they have home disadvantage like in this poll.

Cavs can't be successful in such polls cos they have to many haters.

Fireworld
08-23-2009, 12:22 AM
favor of Orlando

lorenz00
08-23-2009, 12:25 AM
cavs in 7.. or 6... for sure

Vince is too old

mitch91
08-23-2009, 09:46 AM
tough call for me.....i think orl in 7...though it could go either way, but i also think this will be the ECF and not semi-final

J-Relo
08-23-2009, 01:42 PM
Cavs in 6

IndiansFan337
08-23-2009, 05:28 PM
Cleveland in 6

DetroitRipCity
08-23-2009, 06:09 PM
Orlando in 6

boms-4
08-24-2009, 11:44 AM
Cavs but higher seeds always win

LA_Raiders
08-24-2009, 01:47 PM
Orl in 6, too much Super Man for the Diesel

Raph12
08-24-2009, 01:57 PM
Orl in 6, too much Super Man for the Diesel

Ye there is lol, looks like we'll find out who the real Superman is.

Will the real Superman please stand up?

Radio Rakeem
08-24-2009, 06:35 PM
magic in 6... im a bit iffy about the cavs this year

Raph12
08-25-2009, 02:10 AM
68-53 Orlando, let's go Magic!

MagicDojo
08-26-2009, 08:32 AM
Mo Williams will guarantee a win and LBJ will say he cant see the Magic winning 2 games and Shaq will have a sore hip....the Cocky Cavs will lose in 6.
Then LBJ will sign with the Knicks and Clevelands tears will overflow Lake Erie and cause a devestating flood in Clevland.;)