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mrblisterdundee
08-18-2009, 08:53 PM
There seemed to be a lot of interest in whether an international player can play tough enough to be the leader on a championship team. It seems all the focus was on South American and European players. Hakeem learned all his basketball skills in America, and is an American citizen, so he doesn't really count as an international player. That's like trying to say Duncan is international, when his entire basketball life is rooted in America. I'll focus on Europe and South America from now on, since they have the softer playing style and contribute most of the international talent in the NBA.
I should have been more specific in stating that I was asking about the lead player. Every team has an leader, even if he works with others to win. Kobe is the leader of the Lakers. Tim Duncan, who is from a U.S. colony, is the leader of the Spurs. There have been no championship-winning teams lead by an international player. Will there ever be a championship team led by an international player?

fairandbalanced
08-18-2009, 08:57 PM
kobe ......Italy trained

jrice9
08-18-2009, 09:17 PM
Interesting question,

I voted yes, mostly because the odds are that it will happen as the rest of the world is catching up to America.

The best shots currently would be in no order:

1, Hedo/Bargnani/Calder (if the raps somehow won without bosh which is nearly impossible and if it happened either Demar Derozen would have been the star or Bargnani became Dirk or it was a team effort)

2, Dirk-He led them to the finals once and got damn close to winning it and with an improved cast this year it could happen.

3, Rubio-Huge speculation but if he lived up to the hype.

4, Yao Ming-if he stays healthy one year and plays like he can, the best center in the NBA.

5, Tony Parker- May be the main man on a team some day that wins but seems unlikely.

6, Pau Gasol- See Tony Parker

7, Pop Mensu Bonsu-Just that good


They all seem unlikely at this point but it should happen in the next 20 years

Blackification
08-18-2009, 09:27 PM
ever is a really long time.

montazingmvp
08-18-2009, 09:42 PM
yes....its been so close already how could you doubt it...

and olajuwon is nigerian first of all...so he is an international player whether you want to admit it or not...

he was born in nigeria his genes are nigerian...

of course someone is going to try and be trained in the best possible place to maximize their potential...

that doesn't mean they're from the country they trained in..

if that was the case every soccer player in the world would be considered english or spanish...because thats where they train...


but they're not...because most poeple aren't as biased as you

theuuord
08-18-2009, 09:44 PM
lol @ disqualifying Hakeem

ko8e24
08-18-2009, 09:46 PM
tony parker already did it, winning finals mvp in 07, so technically, he led the spurs to the title that yr

theuuord
08-18-2009, 09:48 PM
tony parker already did it, winning finals mvp in 07, so technically, he led the spurs to the title that yr

Their entire core of that team was international (again, lol @ OP trying to disqualify Duncan, too).

Raps18-19 Champ
08-18-2009, 09:48 PM
Give me a reason why not?

And what do you have against international players that you have to make 2 threads?

bogdanrom
08-18-2009, 09:49 PM
There seemed to be a lot of interest in whether an international player can play tough enough to be the leader on a championship team. It seems all the focus was on South American and European players. Hakeem learned all his basketball skills in America, and is an American citizen, so he doesn't really count as an international player. That's like trying to say Duncan is international, when his entire basketball life is rooted in America. I'll focus on Europe and South America from now on, since they have the softer playing style and contribute most of the international talent in the NBA.
I should have been more specific in stating that I was asking about the lead player. Every team has an leader, even if he works with others to win. Kobe is the leader of the Lakers. Tim Duncan, who is from a U.S. colony, is the leader of the Spurs. There have been no championship-winning teams lead by an international player. Will there ever be a championship team led by an international player?

First of all Hakeem is an international player. He was born in Nigeria to Nigerian parents, and he grew up in Nigeria. I don't care that he got better at basketball in the US. And the fact that he hold American citizenship means nothing. I too am a American citizen but I was born in Romania, to Romanian parents, that makes me Romanian. The second is that Duncan was born like you said on US colony which makes him an American at birth.
Now to the question. Yes an international player will lead a team to the championship. We had Dirk a couple of years ago, come close to it. Plus basketball has become a global sport, the second most popular sport in the world, behind soccer.

krest213
08-18-2009, 09:51 PM
its been done. tony p nd manu did it

BaustinSali08
08-18-2009, 09:53 PM
Yeah, I think it has already been done, but there are so many great international players even if someone says that it hasn't been done yet, it will happen.

phoenix_bladen
08-18-2009, 10:20 PM
tim duncan

he's born in the virgin islands not really US incorporated

blastmasta26
08-18-2009, 10:24 PM
It's already been done, so this thread is pointless. You can't disqualify Hakeem or Tim Duncan. They were both born outside the US.

GSPftw
08-18-2009, 10:28 PM
I believe the distinction that mrblisterdundee is trying make between Hakeem and the others is that Hakeem (like Duncan, etc) was never a professional star for an internation team before coming here. Hakeem played college ball at the University of Houston so his stardom began in the U.S. before it developed anywhere else. Guys like Rubio, etc who are becoming international stars AND THEN coming to the NBA is i believe the situation that the thread creator is specifying.

Personally, i would still consider Hakeem (and Duncan, as well as the other San Antonio stars) to be international players no matter where they "got good"; to me the question is where you were born, not trained. But mrblisterdundee did not base this thread around that thinking. So if you don't agree with his thinking then i guess this thread bears little significance to you.

That being said, i think the answer is undoubtedly yes. Yao seems like the most likely one currently in the NBA. Gasol certainly helped, but Kobe was clearly not only the leader, but also the best player on that championship team. However, i think the Spurs championships probably come close to qualifying seing as Duncan, Ginoblili, and Parker are all foreign born. But other than Yao i can't think of any foreign player in the leage that is the true "leader" of a team who seems to have a decent shot at a ring any time soon.

dick butane
08-19-2009, 02:28 AM
Teams are so laced with Euro's.... and foreign born players that you can already say that several rings were made possible already and several more will come. I just hope the sight of all those foreigners drives you away from basketball so I can enjoy it in peace.

asandhu23
08-19-2009, 02:31 AM
Pau Gasol? Hedo would have done in 2002 if his team wasn't pulled down by David Stern and his dogs

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-19-2009, 02:43 AM
What about Darko leading the Knicks to a championship next year?

azkarraga
08-19-2009, 03:02 AM
didnt know nigeria and france were part of the union!

it's been done (twice, in fact). it'll happen again. In the coming years there will be more international leaders.

azkarraga
08-19-2009, 03:04 AM
Give me a reason why not?

And what do you have against international players that you have to make 2 threads?

i wondered the same thing

Hellcrooner
08-19-2009, 03:22 AM
i wonder what woudl you say in three years if a 34 year old kobe would preffer to dossify himself to have a longer career and let 31 year old Pau be the main scorer and they yet won the title.


,,,,,

Kyle N.
08-19-2009, 03:28 AM
tony parker already did it, winning finals mvp in 07, so technically, he led the spurs to the title that yr

I agree and as a PG it's kinda your job to lead the team.

mrblisterdundee
08-19-2009, 02:55 PM
First of all Hakeem is an international player. He was born in Nigeria to Nigerian parents, and he grew up in Nigeria. I don't care that he got better at basketball in the US. And the fact that he hold American citizenship means nothing. I too am a American citizen but I was born in Romania, to Romanian parents, that makes me Romanian. The second is that Duncan was born like you said on US colony which makes him an American at birth.
Now to the question. Yes an international player will lead a team to the championship. We had Dirk a couple of years ago, come close to it. Plus basketball has become a global sport, the second most popular sport in the world, behind soccer.

Hakeem might have been born in Nigeria, but he is an American basketball player; so is Tim. You can't learn good basketball in Nigeria or the Virgin Islands. We are talking about basketball, citizenship. They are not international players. They play American ball.

mrblisterdundee
08-19-2009, 03:00 PM
i wonder what woudl you say in three years if a 34 year old kobe would preffer to dossify himself to have a longer career and let 31 year old Pau be the main scorer and they yet won the title.


,,,,,

Then I would say that an internationally-trainsed player led a team to a championship. But so far, it hasn't happened. Why don't you stop trying to pretend you don't have a bias.

mrblisterdundee
08-19-2009, 03:02 PM
didnt know nigeria and france were part of the union!

it's been done (twice, in fact). it'll happen again. In the coming years there will be more international leaders.

For the last time, Tony Parker didn't lead the Spurs to a championship. Him and Manu were just as valuable, but Tim Duncan is the leader of the Spurs. Don't ever forget that.

mrblisterdundee
08-19-2009, 03:04 PM
Teams are so laced with Euro's.... and foreign born players that you can already say that several rings were made possible already and several more will come. I just hope the sight of all those foreigners drives you away from basketball so I can enjoy it in peace.

Are you kidding? I have nothing against foreigners smart one. I'm just asking if a player trained in the softer international manner will ever be the primary leader on a championship team.

ink
08-19-2009, 03:32 PM
Then I would say that an internationally-trainsed player led a team to a championship. But so far, it hasn't happened. Why don't you stop trying to pretend you don't have a bias.

Seems to me he's not the only one who has a bias. ;)

The two fatal flaws of this thread are 1. the prejudice it's based on, and 2. the assumption that a "star" has to "lead" a team to a championship to validate European talent.

For a team sport the thread doesn't even make sense.

Your criticism of International basketball is that it hasn't produced a "star" that has led an NBA team to a championship.

The problem with that logic is that it ignores the fact that European basketball is far more team-oriented than American basketball. The system philosophies are completely different. They produce TEAM players. That's how they have won international championships too. They play and win differently.

Pau Gasol is a perfect example. He's an absolutely indispensable player who is not concerned about being the "first option" on a team. He knows what his role and his value are because of the way he was developed. Without Pau the Lakers were going nowhere. When they got him, the team turned around 180 degrees. Something very similar could be said about Manu.

What you're really criticizing is that International players don't play American enough for you.

The assumption that started the thread is biased.

I'd like to know why you think this thread should be left open, considering it seems to just promote generalization and stereotypes.

Gibby23
08-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Wasn't Parker finals MVP in the last Spurs run.

JayW_1023
08-19-2009, 03:41 PM
Seems to me he's not the only one who has a bias. ;)

The two fatal flaws of this thread are 1. the prejudice it's based on, and 2. the assumption that a "star" has to "lead" a team to a championship to validate European talent.

For a team sport the thread doesn't even make sense.

Your criticism of International basketball is that it hasn't produced a "star" that has led an NBA team to a championship.

The problem with that logic is that it ignores the fact that European basketball is far more team-oriented than American basketball. The system philosophies are completely different. They produce TEAM players. That's how they have won international championships too. They play and win differently.

Pau Gasol is a perfect example. He's an absolutely indispensable player who is not concerned about being the "first option" on a team. He knows what his role and his value are because of the way he was developed. Without Pau the Lakers were going nowhere. When they got him, the team turned around 180 degrees. Something very similar could be said about Manu.

What you're really criticizing is that International players don't play American enough for you.

The assumption that started the thread is biased.

I'd like to know why you think this thread should be left open, considering it seems to just promote generalization and stereotypes.

Great post....nothing to add to that. The real reason is that many international stars don't have tattoo's and act like hip-hop stars and don't really buy into that Blacktop culture. It says nothing about their ability to be winners as much as American born players.

GeorgeMcCloud21
08-19-2009, 10:30 PM
Dirk

GeorgeMcCloud21
08-19-2009, 10:32 PM
Nowitzki almost did in '06 & Tony Parker did in '07

Lakersfan2483
08-20-2009, 12:45 AM
There seemed to be a lot of interest in whether an international player can play tough enough to be the leader on a championship team. It seems all the focus was on South American and European players. Hakeem learned all his basketball skills in America, and is an American citizen, so he doesn't really count as an international player. That's like trying to say Duncan is international, when his entire basketball life is rooted in America. I'll focus on Europe and South America from now on, since they have the softer playing style and contribute most of the international talent in the NBA.
I should have been more specific in stating that I was asking about the lead player. Every team has an leader, even if he works with others to win. Kobe is the leader of the Lakers. Tim Duncan, who is from a U.S. colony, is the leader of the Spurs. There have been no championship-winning teams lead by an international player. Will there ever be a championship team led by an international player?

Yes, I can see it happening someday, especially with the influx of foreign talent coming into the NBA.

MajorFloridaFan
08-20-2009, 03:11 AM
not as a number 1 option get real

Cavs_Fan24
08-20-2009, 09:39 AM
Dirk almost did it so I guess I can see it happening eventually.

AntiG
08-20-2009, 01:19 PM
For the last time, Tony Parker didn't lead the Spurs to a championship. Him and Manu were just as valuable, but Tim Duncan is the leader of the Spurs. Don't ever forget that.

his MVP disagrees with you.