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View Full Version : Why do people seem to think LeBron isn't clutch?



Sox Appeal
08-17-2009, 08:07 PM
This is one of the things that's really bothered me about the casual NBA fan. For whatever reason they seem to think LeBron is SO bad in the clutch, when in reality, that couldn't be any further from the truth.

LeBron had significantly better numbers in the clutch then any other player in the game, this past year. Source (http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM)

He's also made more GW shots then any player since the time he came into the league. Source (http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)

So why is it that people seem to think he's an awful crunch time player?

Raps08-09 Champ
08-17-2009, 08:14 PM
He has a better percentage than Kobe for game winning shots? Wow.

Shouldn't that prove everyone wrong.

DetroitRipCity
08-17-2009, 08:31 PM
i think percentage is what you should look at

pacofunk64
08-17-2009, 08:36 PM
very good data. it seems the high expectations put on him as the next Jordan is why people think he isn't clutch. these are great #'s, no idea they even kept that stat.

Lakersfan2483
08-17-2009, 08:54 PM
He is one of the top clutch players in the NBA, right behind Kobe and Wade.

DCSportsIsPain
08-17-2009, 09:01 PM
Clutch is an over-rated stat. Every team gives the ball to their best player when it's crunch time. That means the players who at the top of everyone's MVP candidacy lists are the players who are at the top of the "clutch" statistics.

LeBron is clutch by any definition. What he is not is a winner.

IDB Josh M
08-17-2009, 09:08 PM
"Chokes under pressure" is probably an appropriate answer. Its one thing to nail the game winning shot against itty bitty competitors. But even if you've made every game winning shot except for the game winning shot to win a championship, or at least against a big name team, which do you think people will remember? For that matter, which do you think the casual NBA viewer will see?

The Basketball fan knows Lebron has so much potential to be better than Jordan, he's getting better and has taken and made big stage shots and making them as of late. If it wasn't for Lebron's miracle shot last year, he would have been swept out of the ECF.

DetroitRipCity
08-17-2009, 09:10 PM
What he is not is a winner.

lol

kswissdaf
08-17-2009, 09:13 PM
Im sorry but clutchness isnt based on stats

magichatnumber9
08-17-2009, 09:23 PM
These fan insecurity threads are driving me crazy

Trouble87
08-17-2009, 09:26 PM
I don't know many people who question Lebron's clutch shooting ability. He's not well known for it but its definitely not questioned

--------------------

real question... why are there so many Lebron threads? there needs to be a Lebron sticky thread

goku
08-17-2009, 09:28 PM
he is clutch and he do it more in the playoffs then regular season Detroit series ppl tend to forget

kobe24>lebron23
08-17-2009, 09:40 PM
one reason kobe way over shadows him in this situation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L-vLSyD1IQ&feature=related

ko8e24
08-17-2009, 09:43 PM
These fan insecurity threads are driving me crazy

x2

Raps08-09 Champ
08-17-2009, 09:43 PM
Im sorry but clutchness isnt based on stats

How can you prove it then?

You need stats in sport to prove points. That is like saying I think Lebron is better than Wade in shooting but I don't give stats to prove it.

TO Rapz
08-17-2009, 09:46 PM
[QUOTE=Trouble87;10572003]I don't know many people who question Lebron's clutch shooting ability. He's not well known for it but its definitely not questioned

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cuz u live in new york

lakers4sho
08-17-2009, 09:47 PM
He is one of the top clutch players in the NBA, right behind Kobe and Wade.

and Carmelo Anthony and Brandon Roy and Chauncey Billups and so on...

sorry but I'd have to disagree with your statement :p

MCV1313
08-17-2009, 09:51 PM
why dont we think lebron is clutch?? Hmmm, did you watch the playoffs and him getting blow away. If your CLUTCH you win, all the time..

bal_ravens
08-17-2009, 09:53 PM
Wow, he also averaged 4.8 T/Os too! Clutch indeed.

Sox Appeal
08-17-2009, 09:55 PM
why dont we think lebron is clutch?? Hmmm, did you watch the playoffs and him getting blow away. If your CLUTCH you win, all the time..

So making a GW shot in Game 2 of the conference finals wasn't clutch? So nailing two do or die FT's at the end of Game 4 wasn't clutch? Scoring or assisting on his teams final 34 points isn't clutch?

Get a clue bro.

Sox Appeal
08-17-2009, 09:56 PM
and Carmelo Anthony and Brandon Roy and Chauncey Billups and so on...

sorry but I'd have to disagree with your statement :p
Make a case for any of these guys being clutcher then Bron. Please, I'd LOVE to hear it.

BkOriginalOne
08-17-2009, 09:56 PM
I don't think he is clutch.

Think about it this way. Down by 3, who do you want taking the last shot.
Kobe, Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Billups, Ray Allen, Hedo are all guys I would have take the 3 point game winning shot over Lebron.

Who cares if he hit that game winning 3 against the Magic, would you honestly expect him to do that again.

Sox Appeal
08-17-2009, 10:00 PM
I don't think he is clutch.

Think about it this way. Down by 3, who do you want taking the last shot.
Kobe, Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Billups, Ray Allen, Hedo are all guys I would have take the 3 point game winning shot over Lebron.

Who cares if he hit that game winning 3 against the Magic, would you honestly expect him to do that again.

Well, he has made more GW shots then anybody since '03, so I'd have no problem taking my chances with LeBron.

Bruno
08-17-2009, 10:03 PM
Im sorry but clutchness isnt based on stats
:clap::clap::clap:

Raps08-09 Champ
08-17-2009, 10:03 PM
I don't think he is clutch.

Think about it this way. Down by 3, who do you want taking the last shot.
Kobe, Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Billups, Ray Allen, Hedo are all guys I would have take the 3 point game winning shot over Lebron.

Who cares if he hit that game winning 3 against the Magic, would you honestly expect him to do that again.

He had more Game winning shots than Wade, Kobe, Billups and has a decent shooting percentage(Better than Kobe who everyone says is the clutches player in the game). I wouldn't mind him taking the shot.

Sox Appeal
08-17-2009, 10:10 PM
Im sorry but clutchness isnt based on stats

So then how should it be determined? By using light weighted statements and opinions such as "Player x sucks in clutch, Player A r0000lz in clutch" or by looking at what each player has actually done in clutch situations.

I personally, would go with the latter.

Bruno
08-17-2009, 10:16 PM
How about this for a stat...

2008-2009 General Managers Survey
http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.misc/index.html

Look at the last category, titled, "Which player in the NBA would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?"

88.9% of NBA General Managers take Kobe Bryant.

The guys who run the NBA, the guys who are hired to make millions of dollars for their respective franchises overwhelmingly vote for KB24. Why? Because he has proven it time and time again.

Of corse Kobes "clutch shot %" for the past five years will be lower. He was triple teamed on every single one of those shot attempts from 2004-2007; Remember, when Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown were in the Lakers starting lineup? And sorry, LeBron wouldnt have passed it to those guys either.

You have your opinion, I have mine; but its good to be siding with the professionals on this one.

THiiRTYONE
08-17-2009, 10:16 PM
How i see it is that Lebron isnt cluth HOWEVER confidence does help you shoot the ball better in which i think Lebron has plenty of. Lebron is more of a slasher, finisher, defender and a crazy shot blocker :D

Sox Appeal
08-17-2009, 10:20 PM
How about this for a stat...

2008-2009 General Managers Survey
http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.misc/index.html

Look at the last category, titled, "Which player in the NBA would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?"

88.9% of NBA General Managers take Kobe Bryant.

The guys who run the NBA, the guys who are hired to make millions of dollars for their respective franchises overwhelmingly vote for KB24. Why? Because he has proven it time and time again.

Of corse Kobes "clutch shot %" for the past five years will be lower. He was triple teamed on every single one of those shot attempts from 2004-2007; Remember, when Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown were in the Lakers starting lineup? And sorry, LeBron wouldnt have passed it to those guys either.

Because teams haven't been doubling and triple teaming LeBron in those exact same situations?

Raps08-09 Champ
08-17-2009, 10:21 PM
How about this for a stat...

2008-2009 General Managers Survey
http://www.nba.com/2008/tipoff/10/21/gmsurvey.misc/index.html

Look at the last category, titled, "Which player in the NBA would you want taking a shot with the game on the line?"

88.9% of NBA General Managers take Kobe Bryant.

The guys who run the NBA, the guys who are hired to make millions of dollars for their respective franchises overwhelmingly vote for KB24. Why? Because he has proven it time and time again.

Of corse Kobes "clutch shot %" for the past five years will be lower. He was triple teamed on every single one of those shot attempts from 2004-2007; Remember, when Smush Parker, Luke Walton and Kwame Brown were in the Lakers starting lineup? And sorry, LeBron wouldnt have passed it to those guys either.

You have your opinion, I have mine; but its good to be siding with the professionals on this one.

Didn't the Lakers GM say that Lebron was already a better player than Kobe?

Bruno
08-17-2009, 10:24 PM
Didn't the Lakers GM say that Lebron was already a better player than Kobe?

Jerry West said that, not Mitch Kupchak.

We arent talking about whos the better player right now, were talking about whos more clutch.

Bruno
08-17-2009, 10:26 PM
Because teams haven't been doubling and triple teaming LeBron in those exact same situations?

They absolutely have; difference being LeBron has always been surrounded by good shooters, thats my point. Some one has to hit those shots on all his "clutch assists", no?

If you had watched 90% of Laker games for the past ten years, specifically five, you would have witnessed how many times other Lakers failed to give Kobe "a clutch assist" in the final moments by missing the final shot. Now that would be a good stat.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-17-2009, 10:29 PM
Jerry West said that, not Mitch Kupchak.

We arent talking about whos the better player right now, were talking about whos more clutch.

Ahh. My mistake.

TheMicrowave
08-17-2009, 10:31 PM
People think that because he used to be so bad in the clutch, I think two seasons ago. He did well last season in the clutch. I wouldn't say he is great in the clutch because it has been good for the last season only. He has gotten much better though. To be named clutch you have to do it for a long time, not just one season.

Bruno
08-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Ahh. My mistake.

You were close, Kupchak is West's protégé. He took over after West left for Memphis.

Bruno
08-17-2009, 10:34 PM
To answer the thread, LeBron James is absolutely one of the clutches players in the NBA. It is absurd to say he is not clutch.

madiaz3
08-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Because teams haven't been doubling and triple teaming LeBron in those exact same situations?

Sorry, Kobe's teammates those years were just that much worse, as hard as it is to believe.

kobe24>lebron23
08-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Ahh. My mistake.


oh and jerry west took those comments back a couple of weeks later so technically he said kobe is still better

TheMicrowave
08-17-2009, 11:22 PM
To answer the thread, LeBron James is absolutely one of the clutches players in the NBA. It is absurd to say he is not clutch.

Last season, yes. For his entire career absolutely not. He needs to prove he is clutch for more than one or two seasons. Clutch guys do it for most of their career.

Bruno
08-17-2009, 11:57 PM
Last season, yes. For his entire career absolutely not. He needs to prove he is clutch for more than one or two seasons. Clutch guys do it for most of their career.

Ok, I assume he won't get worse in pressure situations from here out. He proved him self last season. On Kobes level? No, but still one of the most clutch players in the league right now.

_KB24_
08-18-2009, 12:30 AM
He's getting there but there still a handful of players I would want to have take the last shot for him. He's still not at the elite level of Kobe, Allen, Gilbert, Billups, etc. I was really surprised to see his improvement last year. He came up really clutch on some occasions and he is getting up there. But most of his clutch baskets come when he is guarded one-on-one. I have yet to see him make a "spectacular" shot over atleast a double/triple team.

Fayzon10
08-18-2009, 12:38 AM
He had more Game winning shots than Wade, Kobe, Billups and has a decent shooting percentage(Better than Kobe who everyone says is the clutches player in the game). I wouldn't mind him taking the shot. Dude shooting percentage is deceptive if you don't actually watch the game, Lebron is not a better shooter than Kobe not even close Lebron's shots come from in the paint dunks and layups he's getting better but he's still a very streaky jump shooter by saying he's clutch because of his percentage would mean that shaq is the most clutch player of all time then. Shaq always has the highest shooting percentage in the league because of dunks and 3foot hook shots, down by 3 with 3 seconds on the clock you don't always have time to get to the rack, that's where Kobe kills Lebron, Kobe can shoot from anywhere on the court and that's what rips teams hearts out...

Lakersho
08-18-2009, 12:51 AM
So making a GW shot in Game 2 of the conference finals wasn't clutch? So nailing two do or die FT's at the end of Game 4 wasn't clutch? Scoring or assisting on his teams final 34 points isn't clutch?

Get a clue bro.

sooo brooo,did he win ecf? does he have a ring? clutch is winning the big games, not game winners against the warriors ...lol

Raps08-09 Champ
08-18-2009, 01:36 AM
Dude shooting percentage is deceptive if you don't actually watch the game, Lebron is not a better shooter than Kobe not even close Lebron's shots come from in the paint dunks and layups he's getting better but he's still a very streaky jump shooter by saying he's clutch because of his percentage would mean that shaq is the most clutch player of all time then. Shaq always has the highest shooting percentage in the league because of dunks and 3foot hook shots, down by 3 with 3 seconds on the clock you don't always have time to get to the rack, that's where Kobe kills Lebron, Kobe can shoot from anywhere on the court and that's what rips teams hearts out...

Would a team really let Lebron dunk for a game winner?

I would think that all of Lebron's shots were in fact jumpers because no team is stupid enough to let them lose by a dunk. With the exception of this game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwDp-iq7LI0

I never said that Lebron was better too. I said I wouldn't mind either one taking the last shot because they are all good.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-18-2009, 01:38 AM
oh and jerry west took those comments back a couple of weeks later so technically he said kobe is still better

I was just saying that not everything that the GM says people should follow.

Most GM's say that Greg P is better than Phil J but I bet Lakers fans have to say something about that.

b_rad23
08-18-2009, 01:40 AM
Would a team really let Lebron dunk for a game winner?

I would think that all of Lebron's shots were in fact jumpers because no team is stupid enough to let them lose by a dunk. With the exception of this game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwDp-iq7LI0

I never said that Lebron was better too. I said I wouldn't mind either one taking the last shot because they are all good.

It happens often actually. Just last year I remember one from Dwight, one from Marion vs the Bulls.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-18-2009, 01:42 AM
It happens often actually. Just last year I remember one from Dwight, one from Marion vs the Bulls.

A lot of those are sneak baskets.

Lebron usually likes to take a shot in the end over dunking.

Don't a lot say that Lebron tends to overshoot sometimes.

b_rad23
08-18-2009, 01:44 AM
Lebron is definitely clutch.

At first he struggled with FTs and shots to end the game, but now he hits them.

Obviously, he tries to get easy buckets. I don't really know why people don't think he's clutch, I guess it's sample size and public knowledge of his earlier misses.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-18-2009, 01:46 AM
Maybe they just plain hate Lebron?

:shrug:

ElMarroAfamado
08-18-2009, 03:29 AM
i saw your lebron sig and saw the reason you made this thread
you cant be the most "clutch" anything when without the paint in clutch situations you aint ****

ElMarroAfamado
08-18-2009, 03:31 AM
A lot of those are sneak baskets.

Lebron usually likes to take a shot in the end over dunking.

Don't a lot say that Lebron tends to overshoot sometimes.

sure :rolleyes:

theres a reason he has what two buzzer beaters?

he always tries to dunk or layup to win the game...iso...and drive
when the layup is not there IS WHEN HE TRIES TO PASS IT OUT TO ANOTHER PLAYER....
and thats when they take a shot and miss...and he get talked about for not taking the final shot.....

he doesnt because he knows he cant shoot a lick....and other guys taking game winning shots is only as a last resort after he cant layup the ball to win the game....

Bruno
08-18-2009, 03:32 AM
I was just saying that not everything that the GM says people should follow.

Most GM's say that Greg P is better than Phil J but I bet Lakers fans have to say something about that.

The survey was after the 07-08 season. Pop and the Spurs had won titles in '03, '05 and '07. Since the guy had won three rings since Jacksons last in 2002, he deserved the vote for best coach.

Now that Jackson and the Lakers won in 2009, It'd be interesting to see how that vote would go.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-18-2009, 04:07 AM
Everything is not based on stats!!!

Kobe>>>Lebron in clutch period