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Mile High Champ
08-14-2009, 09:27 AM
Here are the results of all the rankings we have done over the last little while. Thank you all those who participated in the polls and shared their thoughts in each and every thread. We will run this once agin after next season concludes. Thanks again.

Cheers

Best Players in the League List
1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Top 10 Center Rankings
1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

Top 10 PF Rankings
1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

Top 10 SF Rankings
1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

Top 10 SG Rankings
1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

Top 10 PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd

Vinny642
08-14-2009, 09:29 AM
Nice, good job man you did alot for this. I mainly agree.

Unruly Fan
08-14-2009, 09:53 AM
Well Done.

:clap::clap::clap:

cmacmath
08-14-2009, 09:56 AM
Wow, funny how the resuts work out...it would be really hard to argue with any of that...

I could see minor changes here and there in all the rankings, but not enough to even spark up a debate over...

For the most part, I completely agree with all the lists

randomness
08-14-2009, 11:34 AM
Post your team's results.

Toronto Raptors:

Andrea Bargnani 5/10 C
Chris Bosh 4/10 PF
Hedo Turkoglu 8/10 SF
Jose Calderon 9/10 PG

jimbobjarree
08-14-2009, 11:37 AM
apart from Bargnani I think we did a good job...Deron should be in the top 10 players too :sigh:

Vinny642
08-14-2009, 11:37 AM
CP3- 1st PG
DWest- 10th PF(:pity:)
Okafor- 7th best center

Vinny642
08-14-2009, 11:38 AM
apart from Bargnani I think we did a good job...Deron should be in the top 10 players too :sigh:

yea, i voted him since like the 6th best player

J_M_B
08-14-2009, 11:45 AM
apart from Bargnani I think we did a good job...Deron should be in the top 10 players too :sigh:

Yeah, I thought Deron Williams was the 9th or 10th best player in the league, but PSD voted otherwise.

Though I mainly agree with all the polls.

Great work Mile High Champ, you put a lot of work into this. :clap:

jimbobjarree
08-14-2009, 12:04 PM
would be sweet to see a team made up of number ones play a team made up of number 2s, lotta grudge matches there, I think the 2s could do it

lakers4sho
08-14-2009, 12:05 PM
Amare and Chris Bosh over Pau? Bynum 10th??

:down:

kbaxter34
08-14-2009, 12:16 PM
Lakers:
Kobe 1st SG
Bynum 10th C
Gasol 6th PF
Artest 9th SF

Wizards:
Jamison 8th PF
Butler 7th SF
Maybe Arenas will get on the PG/SG list next year.

datpif
08-14-2009, 12:33 PM
Raptors got 4 out of five positions suckas, and 2 in the top 5 may I add.

jimbobjarree
08-14-2009, 12:41 PM
Amare and Chris Bosh over Pau? Bynum 10th??

:down:

:dance2:

datpif
08-14-2009, 12:44 PM
Amare and Chris Bosh over Pau? Bynum 10th??

:down:

Amare 20/10 Chris 20/10 whats the beef?

mitch91
08-14-2009, 12:53 PM
great work, i would make a few changes here and there but im sure most would but i not everyone is going to agree but i think most people would have the same names us maybe a few position changes

really great work

shame d-will didn't get in there

JordansBulls
08-14-2009, 01:05 PM
Here are the results of all the rankings we have done over the last little while. Thank you all those who participated in the polls and shared their thoughts in each and every thread. We will run this once agin after next season concludes. Thanks again.

Cheers

Best Players in the League List
1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4) Chris Paul
5) Dwight Howard
6) Tim Duncan
7) Dirk Nowitzki
8) Carmelo Anthony
9) Kevin Garnett
10) Brandon Roy

Top 10 Center Rankings
1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Shaquille O'Neal
5) Andrea Bargnani
6) Andris Biedrins
7) Emeka Okafor
8) Nene
9) Brook Lopez
10) Andrew Bynum

Top 10 PF Rankings
1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Dirk Nowitzki
4) Chris Bosh
5) Amare Stoudemire
6) Pau Gasol
7) Carlos Boozer
8) Antawn Jamison
9) Rashard Lewis
10) David West

Top 10 SF Rankings
1) Lebron James
2) Carmelo Anthony
3) Kevin Durant
4) Paul Pierce
5) Danny Granger
6) Andre Iguodala
7) Caron Butler
8) Hedo Turkoglu
9) Ron Artest
10) Stephen Jackson

Top 10 SG Rankings
1) Kobe Bryant
2) Dwayne Wade
3) Brandon Roy
4) Joe Johnson
5) Vince Carter
6) Manu Ginobili
7) Ray Allen
8) Kevin Martin
9) Ben Gordon
10) Richard Hamilton

Top 10 PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd


I can't believe Jose Calderon made it over Mo or Nelson? I mean he plays with another star and couldn't even make the playoffs.

DCSportsIsPain
08-14-2009, 01:12 PM
I can't believe Jose Calderon made it over Mo or Nelson? I mean he plays with another star and couldn't even make the playoffs.

You "work" here. I would think you would be fully aware of the number of Toronto fans and their sock puppet accounts used to throw these polls. It isn't rocket science to know that members who have never posted but mirculously find these polls to vote in are sock puppets.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-14-2009, 01:15 PM
Cool.

I would have thought that going until #20 in the overall list would be more interesting though.

JWO35
08-14-2009, 01:19 PM
Ben Gordon & Richard Hamilton both on the list....kinda surprised
now, we need to trade one of them and get a top 10 Center :D

Raps18-19 Champ
08-14-2009, 01:22 PM
I can't believe Jose Calderon made it over Mo or Nelson? I mean he plays with another star and couldn't even make the playoffs.

Blame it on the R-r-r-r-raptors Fans.

dhalvarez
08-14-2009, 01:35 PM
I agree with most of it.

...yes Amare and Bosh over Pau!

...I'm surprised that Jameer Neslon didn't break the top 10pg.

...I'm a Calderon fan but if it's based on last year's results, he was plagued with injuries, and was never %100. I know that he did break the Free Throw % record.

However Jose will be back next year and will deserve a top 5 spot....no doubt!!

dre1990
08-14-2009, 01:42 PM
Chauncey Billups shouldve cracked the top 10 IMO

Raps18-19 Champ
08-14-2009, 01:44 PM
I surprise Al Horford isn't at the C list.

I think he is more deserving than Bargnani and Bynum.

D-Will4Prez
08-14-2009, 01:52 PM
I agree with most of it.

...yes Amare and Bosh over Pau!

...I'm surprised that Jameer Neslon didn't break the top 10pg.

...I'm a Calderon fan but if it's based on last year's results, he was plagued with injuries, and was never %100. I know that he did break the Free Throw % record.

However Jose will be back next year and will deserve a top 5 spot....no doubt!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TkOyTDPmGY this is why Jameer Nelson isn't top 10.
I like the list overall, Okur shoulda been top 10 C (he had 17 and 8 during the season, more than Bargnani) and D Will shoulda been in the top 10 players but all in all the list looks good.

B.JenningsMVP
08-14-2009, 02:03 PM
Brook Lopez over Bynum?????????????? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttt????? lol

ink
08-14-2009, 02:06 PM
I can't believe Jose Calderon made it over Mo or Nelson? I mean he plays with another star and couldn't even make the playoffs.

I can't believe Rose made it to #6 so we're even. ;)

Raph12
08-14-2009, 02:09 PM
Still think D-Will should be on the Top 10 list, should be 10A. I wouldn't know who to pick, Roy or D-Will

MiamiHeat
08-14-2009, 02:13 PM
Andrea Bargnani top 5 C?
:speechless:





:faint:

Raph12
08-14-2009, 02:16 PM
I can't believe Jose Calderon made it over Mo or Nelson? I mean he plays with another star and couldn't even make the playoffs.

Calderon over Kidd, Nelson and Mo is just ridiculous, I'd take any of those three guys in a heartbeat over Jose. Nelson had given his team the best record in the league before he went out with injury, Kidd led his team to the second round of the playoffs, Mo led his team to the ECFs and Jose led his team to 3rd last in the East. Talk about a homer pick.

Sportfan
08-14-2009, 02:20 PM
Bargnani 5th? lmao

ink
08-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Calderon over Kidd, Nelson and Mo is just ridiculous, I'd take any of those three guys in a heartbeat over Jose. Nelson had given his team the best record in the league before he went out with injury, Kidd led his team to the second round of the playoffs, Mo led his team to the ECFs and Jose led his team to 3rd last in the East. Talk about a homer pick.

I think some of you are missing the point. It's just a snapshot of what the members on PSD voted for this summer. I don't think anyone is claiming that the results really indicate actual NBA rankings.

IversonIsKrazy
08-14-2009, 03:37 PM
Few minor changes, but list still looks good.

Lopez over Bynum was a joke, it was just Lakers VS rest of league, lol.
Deron should've bin in the top 10 overall.
And, IVERSON, one of the all-time greats, should've bin 9th in SG.

bigsams50
08-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Blame it on the R-r-r-r-raptors Fans.

ahahhaha

bigsams50
08-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Rondo #8 PG
Allen #7 SG
Pierce #4 SF
Garnett #2 PF

LanceUpperCut
08-14-2009, 03:47 PM
But how on earth would a small market canadian team rig so many votes. Jose last year does'nt deserve number 10 but as a player in whole for sure. If he was healthy no doubt top ten.

DCSportsIsPain
08-14-2009, 03:55 PM
But how on earth would a small market canadian team rig so many votes. Jose last year does'nt deserve number 10 but as a player in whole for sure. If he was healthy no doubt top ten.

Dynamic IP? Open Source Proxy? Who cares, really? It doesn't affect the outcome of the actual season like, say, bribing officials does. :D

Bruno
08-14-2009, 05:59 PM
Well done.

BlondeBomber41
08-14-2009, 06:13 PM
Bargnani getting the #5 center spot ruined all the polls for me.

Ditto for Ben Gordon getting voted in the top ten and ahead of Rip Hamilton.

Or Hedo ahead of Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson.

Or Vince Carter over Manu Ginobili.

Or Jose Calderon over Jason Kidd.

I swear its just homer votes or people that don't understand what makes a player good.

DCSportsIsPain
08-14-2009, 06:53 PM
I think some of you are missing the point. It's just a snapshot of what the members on PSD voted for this summer. I don't think anyone is claiming that the results really indicate actual NBA rankings.

Christ, I hope not, because that would make the entire voting fanbase of PSD extremely uninformed, based upon the results of the voting.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-14-2009, 06:57 PM
Bynum was suppose to go 6 but lot of the Lakers fans went on strike because Bargnani got the 5th spot.

BlondeBomber41
08-14-2009, 07:11 PM
Bynum was suppose to go 6 but lot of the Lakers fans went on strike because Bargnani got the 5th spot.

Well it was ridiculous. i would take a center like Joel Pryzbilla who is a great rebounder, shot blocker and defender as my starting center anyday before I would want pussyfoot Bargnani as my center.

_KB24_
08-14-2009, 07:31 PM
^^ Your the only one. BARGS is a MILLION times better than Pryzbilla.

Toenail Clipper
08-14-2009, 07:36 PM
OH WOW, not a single sight of Gilbert Arenas or Elton Brand

B.JenningsMVP
08-14-2009, 07:36 PM
Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5? Bargs at 5?
lol

Mile High Champ
08-15-2009, 11:16 AM
Well it was ridiculous. i would take a center like Joel Pryzbilla who is a great rebounder, shot blocker and defender as my starting center anyday before I would want pussyfoot Bargnani as my center.

Bomber it has become quite clear that you have never seen Bargnani play in your life...

Mile High Champ
08-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Bargnani getting the #5 center spot ruined all the polls for me.

Ditto for Ben Gordon getting voted in the top ten and ahead of Rip Hamilton.

Or Hedo ahead of Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson.

Or Vince Carter over Manu Ginobili.

Or Jose Calderon over Jason Kidd.

I swear its just homer votes or people that don't understand what makes a player good.


This is where it comes down to opinion at this point. So bargnani made it a few spots too high, I still believe him to be a top 10 center in this league. As far as Ben Gordon goes, there is a case to made for him. He played very well down the stretch for the bulls and in the playoffs while Hamilton really failed to take his game to another level. Yes Hamilton is still good but he is riding name value more than anything at this point.

Hedo is coming off a great season for the magic and was very much there go to star player that DID not dissapear in the playoffs when it mattered. Why all the love for Artest? yeah he remains a hell of a defensive player but his offensive game is nothing to go crazy for. I would much rather have hedo any day of the week...

Manu was hurt for a good portion of last season, not surprising that he was not able to pass Carter after his solid season, its getting down to pure opinion at this point..

Again this is all opinion, its not like any of the player comparisons you offered are as bad as you say they are. Call Me crazy but it just so happens that both Artest and Hamilton are on your new Jazz team in the NBA Mock off-season, I can see why now you would want to defend these guys for a higher spot.

DenButsu
08-15-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm surprised, based on previous PSD voting that I've seen (that would often place him in the top 15, but rarely in the top 10) that Melo made the top 10. I guess he really must have made an impression in the playoffs.

DCSportsIsPain
08-15-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm surprised, based on previous PSD voting that I've seen (that would often place him in the top 15, but rarely in the top 10) that Melo made the top 10. I guess he really must have made an impression in the playoffs.

I argue, and I believe legitimately, that people would vote differently if they were signing the paychecks.

jimbobjarree
08-15-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm surprised, based on previous PSD voting that I've seen (that would often place him in the top 15, but rarely in the top 10) that Melo made the top 10. I guess he really must have made an impression in the playoffs.

seeing him in the WCF boosted my opinion of him greatly, well the first few games of it anyway

Ironman5219
08-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Good job!

BlondeBomber41
08-15-2009, 11:57 AM
This is where it comes down to opinion at this point. So bargnani made it a few spots too high, I still believe him to be a top 10 center in this league. As far as Ben Gordon goes, there is a case to made for him. He played very well down the stretch for the bulls and in the playoffs while Hamilton really failed to take his game to another level. Yes Hamilton is still good but he is riding name value more than anything at this point.

Hedo is coming off a great season for the magic and was very much there go to star player that DID not dissapear in the playoffs when it mattered. Why all the love for Artest? yeah he remains a hell of a defensive player but his offensive game is nothing to go crazy for. I would much rather have hedo any day of the week...

Manu was hurt for a good portion of last season, not surprising that he was not able to pass Carter after his solid season, its getting down to pure opinion at this point..

Again this is all opinion, its not like any of the player comparisons you offered are as bad as you say they are. Call Me crazy but it just so happens that both Artest and Hamilton are on your new Jazz team in the NBA Mock off-season, I can see why now you would want to defend these guys for a higher spot.

The reason why I got them is why I defend them for higher spots... they deserve them.

Artest can give you 15-20 a game, just like Hedo, but he can also play some of the best defense in the NBA and to me that counts alot more than apparently it does to you. On your soft Euro Raptors team that really has no chance at winning anything next year Hedo is a great fit, but on a team that wants to play defense and win championships you would be crazy to take Hedo over Artest.

Rip Hamilton is the ultimate team guy. He plays hard, smart, and makes good decisions. He will almost always shoot a good % and give you around 20 PPG as a starter.

Ben on the other hand is a no defense playing chucker who when the Pistons signed him this offseason everyone basically laughed at and said "The Pistons blew all their cap room on someone who isnt really gonna help them get better".

Rip Hamilton is the type of SG Championship teams have, Ben is the type of SG that should come off the bench for any team that wants to win anything. As an overall player, Rip Hamilton is the better player.

nba~GURU~
08-15-2009, 01:55 PM
Amare and Chris Bosh over Pau? Bynum 10th??

:down:

:bs: :faint:
typical laker fan think that every player on their roster is the best
lol why the hell wouldnt amare and chris be over pau lol you compare the stats yourself(Y)
Pau Gasol
10.5 rebounds 1 block 18.3 points

Amare Stoudemire
8.14 rebounds 1.12 blocks 21.4 point
Chris Bosh
10.0 rebounds 1.2 blocks 22.7 points


lol and bynum? loll why is he even on the list SO OVERATED (so much potential though)

Bynums line
8.0 rebounds 1.8 blocks 14.3points


Al Horfords line
9.3 rebounds 1.7 blocks 11.3 points
Marcus Camby line
11.3 rebounds 2.1 blocks 10.3 points
Zack Randolph line (who can play center)
10.1 rebounds .4 blocks 20.8 points
Mehmet Okur line
7.8 rebounds .8 blocks 17.0 points
Chris Kaman
8.0 rebounds 1.5 blocks 12.0 points
Luis Scola
8.4 rebounds .3 blocks 14.4 points

all these centers i would take over bynum any day and none of which were on the top ten .... stupid laker homers8-)

however i agree 99% with the list
welll done:clap:

nba~GURU~
08-15-2009, 02:08 PM
Bomber it has become quite clear that you have never seen Bargnani play in your life...

agreed x10

nba~GURU~
08-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Bargnani getting the #5 center spot ruined all the polls for me.

Ditto for Ben Gordon getting voted in the top ten and ahead of Rip Hamilton.

Or Hedo ahead of Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson.

Or Vince Carter over Manu Ginobili.

Or Jose Calderon over Jason Kidd.

I swear its just homer votes or people that don't understand what makes a player good.

anyone else sensing some negativity towards the toronto raptors....

BlondeBomber41
08-15-2009, 02:20 PM
anyone else sensing some negativity towards the toronto raptors....

Only in the sense that the very reason why the players I mentioned got voted so high is because of the fact that they got so many Raptor homer votes. It has nothing to do with my disliking the Raptors. I dont at all. I dislike fans who blindly ruin polls by voting for their favorite teams player.

BlondeBomber41
08-15-2009, 02:24 PM
Bomber it has become quite clear that you have never seen Bargnani play in your life...

I've seen him play plenty. He shoots from the outside, is a low percentage shooter, cant board with real centers and gets pushed around like a school girl. Yeah I'm sure its nice when he has a good shooting night, but he is more of a negative mark then a positive one.

If you moved him to PF and put him next to a real center who can dominate the glass, score and play defense to make up for what Bargnani lacks he may work but at center... next to Chris Bosh.... no way.

Its one of the many reasons why the Raptors at their current pace will always be that 4th-7th seed and a second round exit at best kinda team.

ko8e24
08-15-2009, 02:32 PM
:bs: :faint:
typical laker fan think that every player on their roster is the best
lol why the hell wouldnt amare and chris be over pau lol you compare the stats yourself(Y)
Pau Gasol
10.5 rebounds 1 block 18.3 points

Amare Stoudemire
8.14 rebounds 1.12 blocks 21.4 point
Chris Bosh
10.0 rebounds 1.2 blocks 22.7 points


lol and bynum? loll why is he even on the list SO OVERATED (so much potential though)

Bynums line
8.0 rebounds 1.8 blocks 14.3points


Al Horfords line
9.3 rebounds 1.7 blocks 11.3 points
Marcus Camby line
11.3 rebounds 2.1 blocks 10.3 points
Zack Randolph line (who can play center)
10.1 rebounds .4 blocks 20.8 points
Mehmet Okur line
7.8 rebounds .8 blocks 17.0 points
Chris Kaman
8.0 rebounds 1.5 blocks 12.0 points
Luis Scola
8.4 rebounds .3 blocks 14.4 points

all these centers i would take over bynum any day and none of which were on the top ten .... stupid laker homers8-)

however i agree 99% with the list
welll done:clap:



lol,Pau is much smarter and much more skilled than Chris Bosh. They do different things on the court, so u can put them neck-and-neck or one slightly above the other. Amare Stoudemire is a shell of what he used to be in 2004-2005. That Amare, whos had bad luck with injuries and everything else will not come back. And now that Steve Nash (still decent) is getting older, amare won't get those easy dunks and layups that he used to circa 2004-2005-2006

franey25
08-15-2009, 02:32 PM
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
top 5 pf
top 5 center
top 10 sf
top 10 pg
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kakaroach
08-15-2009, 02:47 PM
apart from Bargnani I think we did a good job...Deron should be in the top 10 players too :sigh: I agree on both points. Bargs was a screw-up and D. Will is better than some of those players on the Top 10 for sure...

DWT
08-15-2009, 02:55 PM
But how on earth would a small market canadian team rig so many votes. Jose last year does'nt deserve number 10 but as a player in whole for sure. If he was healthy no doubt top ten.

Uhm - You do realize that Toronto is the 5th largest city in NORTH AMERICA right? Only behind Mexico City, LA, New York and Chicago?

lorenz00
08-15-2009, 03:11 PM
nice ranking :D

Raph12
08-15-2009, 03:19 PM
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
top 5 pf
top 5 center
top 10 sf
top 10 pg
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris Bosh does not deserve to be 5th in the PF ranking, I'd take Amare and Pau over Bosh anyday. Bosh can't play defense, they have no real inside presence. Bosh at best should have been number 7

Bargnani at 5th is just a joke, Biedrins, Okafor, Nene, Lopez and even Bynum are all better than Barns. Bargnani is the only center on that list that has no postup game and can't play any defense. Bargnani at best should have been number 12 behind all the guys listed above, Al Horford and Mehmet Okur

Hedo at 8th is only the result of the Finals run Orlando had last year. Hedo was nothing before Orlando and he'll be nothing after Orlando. Hedo is as inconsistant as they come and he is a terrible defender, something the Raps aren't short of this season. If you remove the Magic's Finals run then, Hedo at best should've been ranked 13th behind: Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince

Calderon at 9th is another homer pick, Jose was supposed to be the ring leader of a very capable Raptors team last season. They struggled all season, with or without Calderon, showing his value, or should I say lack of value last season. Calderon at best should've been ranked 12th, behind Kidd, Nelson and Mo Williams

These rankings are clearly flawed and personally I have nothing against Raptor fans, but the homerness of these picks, shows their lack of respect to players clearly deserving of the ranks. IMO Bosh is the only "Top 10" anything on that Raptors team.

My final edit to your post would be this:
top 10 pf
top 15 center
top 15 sf
top 15 pg
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Legitimate
08-15-2009, 03:19 PM
All the raps need now is a top ten SG, which I hope becomes Derozan. In a very rare scenerio, Belinelli for top ten SG, haha.

JMKnick33
08-15-2009, 03:27 PM
It's funny how Kevin Garnett is ahead of Dirk in the Top 10 PF poll, but is behind Dirk in the Top 10 player poll. :confused:

Legitimate
08-15-2009, 03:47 PM
Chris Bosh does not deserve to be 5th in the PF ranking, I'd take Amare and Pau over Bosh anyday. Bosh can't play defense, they have no real inside presence. Bosh at best should have been number 7

Bargnani at 5th is just a joke, Biedrins, Okafor, Nene, Lopez and even Bynum are all better than Barns. Bargnani is the only center on that list that has no postup game and can't play any defense. Bargnani at best should have been number 12 behind all the guys listed above, Al Horford and Mehmet Okur

Hedo at 8th is only the result of the Finals run Orlando had last year. Hedo was nothing before Orlando and he'll be nothing after Orlando. Hedo is as inconsistant as they come and he is a terrible defender, something the Raps aren't short of this season. If you remove the Magic's Finals run then, Hedo at best should've been ranked 13th behind: Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince

Calderon at 9th is another homer pick, Jose was supposed to be the ring leader of a very capable Raptors team last season. They struggled all season, with or without Calderon, showing his value, or should I say lack of value last season. Calderon at best should've been ranked 12th, behind Kidd, Nelson and Mo Williams

These rankings are clearly flawed and personally I have nothing against Raptor fans, but the homerness of these picks, shows their lack of respect to players clearly deserving of the ranks. IMO Bosh is the only "Top 10" anything on that Raptors team.

My final edit to your post would be this:
top 10 pf
top 15 center
top 15 sf
top 15 pg
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOAH WOAH DUDE. CB4 is 4th in the NBA in Freethrow attempts and 3rd in the NBA in freethrows made, how is that not in inside presence? Being a top 5 most efficient score in the NBA, I believe he should be even higher, since this is just a PF ranking. Bosh's D is not the best, but its not extremely horrible like some players.

Bargnani is a top ten Center in this league, averaging 18-6.5 as a starter and he is only going to improve. 18ppg is a lot better offensively than most the list. Personally I don't believe Bargnani is a top 5 C, but it came down to a choice between Bynum and Bargs, lol of course i'm goin to go with my man..b/c Bynum blows.

Bottom line dude, that Hedo was a big part of getting Orlando to the Nba finals, so he does deserve respect, now he got traded to the raps, noone wants to respect him now. Makes no sense. Top ten SF for sure.

Calderon. 3rd in Nba in assists, 50-fg%, 40+ from 3 land, best assist-turnover ratio. You can't just look at the raps and blame the win percentage on a few players, its just not fair to the players. Calderon has better stats than mostly everyone on that list, how is that not a top ten PG? What is a coach's dream, is Calderon's strengths.

Pure rap hater post. I am not even gonna reply to this bs. Sure raps fans over-rate their players, but the rest of PSD has also been guilty of this. All good, you can hate all you want.

Raph12
08-15-2009, 03:51 PM
But how on earth would a small market canadian team rig so many votes. Jose last year does'nt deserve number 10 but as a player in whole for sure. If he was healthy no doubt top ten.

Are you kidding? 1st of all, TO is the 5th largest city in all of North America. 2nd, it is the only Canadian team in the NBA, so all of the the Canadian fans could've been showing their support to the only Canadian team's players. Finally, I'm sure not all the votes came from across the border, but enough of them did for their players to make each list. Thank god they didn't have a player in the two-guard poll, otherwise they would take out another deserving player for their own homer pick.

DCSportsIsPain
08-15-2009, 05:15 PM
Are you kidding? 1st of all, TO is the 5th largest city in all of North America. 2nd, it is the only Canadian team in the NBA, so all of the the Canadian fans could've been showing their support to the only Canadian team's players. Finally, I'm sure not all the votes came from across the border, but enough of them did for their players to make each list. Thank god they didn't have a player in the two-guard poll, otherwise they would take out another deserving player for their own homer pick.

The vast majority of Canada gives a **** about basketball, so it might be a bit unreasonable to assume that every province in Canada is lining up to vote in a PSD poll. If it was an ice hockey poll, then I wouldn't even question it. It's basketball. Toronto is a huge city with a ton of people, true. That does not explain the number of new accounts who had never previously posted a single post finding and voting for Toronto in that specific poll.

DenButsu
08-15-2009, 08:53 PM
The vast majority of Canada gives a **** about basketball

Where's Ink when you need him?

-------------

Anyways, I don't know if this affects PSD's membership or not, but it just so happens that it's a Canadian website, iirc.

LaKeRs824
08-15-2009, 09:17 PM
bynum should be higher, artest should be higher, pau should be higher, and odom should be in the top 10 for sf....the world hates the lakers, what can we do? lol

these polls r always lakers vs the nba...the most hated team, because were the best team of all time. start hating on me all you want, but you wish your team had the tradition, the players, and the history my los angeles lakers do

Raph12
08-15-2009, 09:48 PM
WOAH WOAH DUDE. CB4 is 4th in the NBA in Freethrow attempts and 3rd in the NBA in freethrows made, how is that not in inside presence? Being a top 5 most efficient score in the NBA, I believe he should be even higher, since this is just a PF ranking. Bosh's D is not the best, but its not extremely horrible like some players.

Bargnani is a top ten Center in this league, averaging 18-6.5 as a starter and he is only going to improve. 18ppg is a lot better offensively than most the list. Personally I don't believe Bargnani is a top 5 C, but it came down to a choice between Bynum and Bargs, lol of course i'm goin to go with my man..b/c Bynum blows.

Bottom line dude, that Hedo was a big part of getting Orlando to the Nba finals, so he does deserve respect, now he got traded to the raps, noone wants to respect him now. Makes no sense. Top ten SF for sure.

Calderon. 3rd in Nba in assists, 50-fg%, 40+ from 3 land, best assist-turnover ratio. You can't just look at the raps and blame the win percentage on a few players, its just not fair to the players. Calderon has better stats than mostly everyone on that list, how is that not a top ten PG? What is a coach's dream, is Calderon's strengths.

Pure rap hater post. I am not even gonna reply to this bs. Sure raps fans over-rate their players, but the rest of PSD has also been guilty of this. All good, you can hate all you want.

LMFAO!!!! 1st of all, I have a home in TO and have watched alot of their games, so why would I be a hater?

2nd, shooting free throws doesn't mean you have a strong inside presence, Bosh has a very poor postup game and he isn't a good shot blocker, therefore his presence isn't felt on the inside.

3rd, Bargnani is an 15-5-1.2-31 (pts-rebs-blks-mins) player, where the fck did you get 18-6.5? while Biedrins is a 12-11-1.5-30 player, Okafor a 13-10-1.7-33 player, Nene a 15-8-1.3-33 player, Lopez a 13-8-1.8-31 rookie, Bynum a 14-8-1.8-29 player, Horford a 12-9-1.4-33 player and Okur a 17-8-0.8-34 player. All of which are better centers than Bargnani. Btw next time you respond to me, try not to make sh/t up plz (18-6.5), it's really embarrassing.

4th, Hedo, Alston, Lee, Pietrus, Shard and Dwight were all big reasons why Orlando made the Finals. If I were to rank them it would be, Dwight, Shard then Hedo, no doubt he was a contributor but Orlando makes him look better than he is, he is an inconsistant scorer, commits alot of turnovers and is a poor defender, all flaws hidden by the Magic's offensive scheme (inside-out with Dwight) and Dwight's shotblocking, when his man beats him. He's a good SF no doubt but in no way is he a better SF than; Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince.

5th, Calderon is a good PG, but not a top 10 PG, Kidd, Nelson and Williams all had similar stats to what you listed above, the difference is, all of those guys made their team better. Calderon's presence was a non-factor, if he wasn't there, Raps lose, if he was there, Raps lose. Any player who is invaluable to their team, doesn't deserve to be a Top 10 rank on any list. Btw stats don't prove everything, AI puts up better stats than 90+% of the NBA, but still no one wants to sign him, why? because he doesn't make teams better, he is like Calderon except with better scoring and a never-changing attitude.

Finally, by saying "I am not even gonna reply to this bs" in your reply, you just make yourself look like an idiot. You need to stop contradicting yourself, stop making up stats and start watching more games before arguing with someone who CLEARLY has more basketball knowledge than you.

Raph12
08-15-2009, 09:55 PM
The vast majority of Canada gives a **** about basketball, so it might be a bit unreasonable to assume that every province in Canada is lining up to vote in a PSD poll. If it was an ice hockey poll, then I wouldn't even question it. It's basketball. Toronto is a huge city with a ton of people, true. That does not explain the number of new accounts who had never previously posted a single post finding and voting for Toronto in that specific poll.

No offense dude, very stupid post, 1st off Canadians love basketball. I should know, I'm Canadian born. I'm not saying that people from every province are lining up to vote for Raps players, I'm saying guys like Ink (who lives in Vancouver) likes to support the Raptors because they are the only NBA team in Canada.

Btw the part in bold, I have no idea what you're talking about, :confused: but guessing you mean Raps fans are creating new accounts and voting for their own players?

ink
08-15-2009, 10:02 PM
The vast majority of Canada gives a **** about basketball, so it might be a bit unreasonable to assume that every province in Canada is lining up to vote in a PSD poll. If it was an ice hockey poll, then I wouldn't even question it. It's basketball. Toronto is a huge city with a ton of people, true. That does not explain the number of new accounts who had never previously posted a single post finding and voting for Toronto in that specific poll.

I don't really know what you're on about since I've only just read a post or two at the tail end of this thread, but there have been a ton of Toronto fans on this site for a long time. That explains the number of votes Raptors players get from the legions of Canadians on the site. We do have a big fan base here, but we're still quite out-numbered by LA, NYC and Chicago fans.

About basketball in Canada, come on, there's tons of interest in the Raptors, and it's growing pretty quickly as they improve. It's not anywhere near the scale it is in the USA at the college and school level but then that's true of basketball in almost any country outside the US and Europe. We don't have a pro-league and any ball talent we have moves south. The American college system has been an international talent magnet for a long time. It doesn't mean the rest of us aren't passionate about basketball. There's no room here for generalized dissings of our fair nation and its small but rabid hoops fan population. :no: lol.

DCSportsIsPain
08-15-2009, 10:09 PM
There's no room here for generalized dissings of our fair nation and its small but rabid hoops fan population. :no: lol.

I take no issue with Canada, or with Canada's "small but rabid hoops population." I take issue with what appear to be legions of bandwagon fans because it is now the only team in Canada. There was another, and it was unable to survive. So those fans who failed to support that team now support the other team? That is the only issue I have with the legions of support.

ink
08-15-2009, 10:23 PM
I take no issue with Canada, or with Canada's "small but rabid hoops population." I take issue with what appear to be legions of bandwagon fans because it is now the only team in Canada. There was another, and it was unable to survive. So those fans who failed to support that team now support the other team? That is the only issue I have with the legions of support.

What's wrong with all of Canada getting behind their team? :confused: The other team, the Grizzlies, was stolen from us just as the Sonics were stolen from Seattle. The NBA is just bloody lucky we didn't just turn our backs on the whole league after the deception Michael Heisley and David Stern pulled off. So, yeah, Raptors fans are passionate. We love our team. [Some of us are a little over-zealous but I'd rather have too much enthusiasm rather than Memphis-like indifference].

Raps18-19 Champ
08-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Chris Bosh does not deserve to be 5th in the PF ranking, I'd take Amare and Pau over Bosh anyday. Bosh can't play defense, they have no real inside presence. Bosh at best should have been number 7

Bargnani at 5th is just a joke, Biedrins, Okafor, Nene, Lopez and even Bynum are all better than Barns. Bargnani is the only center on that list that has no postup game and can't play any defense. Bargnani at best should have been number 12 behind all the guys listed above, Al Horford and Mehmet Okur

Hedo at 8th is only the result of the Finals run Orlando had last year. Hedo was nothing before Orlando and he'll be nothing after Orlando. Hedo is as inconsistant as they come and he is a terrible defender, something the Raps aren't short of this season. If you remove the Magic's Finals run then, Hedo at best should've been ranked 13th behind: Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince

Calderon at 9th is another homer pick, Jose was supposed to be the ring leader of a very capable Raptors team last season. They struggled all season, with or without Calderon, showing his value, or should I say lack of value last season. Calderon at best should've been ranked 12th, behind Kidd, Nelson and Mo Williams

These rankings are clearly flawed and personally I have nothing against Raptor fans, but the homerness of these picks, shows their lack of respect to players clearly deserving of the ranks. IMO Bosh is the only "Top 10" anything on that Raptors team.

My final edit to your post would be this:
top 10 pf
top 15 center
top 15 sf
top 15 pg
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do you talk down on Turkoglu so much?

When he was on the Magic, you guys were all getting excited about him and now that he left, you guys act like he didn't do anything for you guy.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-15-2009, 10:46 PM
LMFAO!!!! 1st of all, I have a home in TO and have watched alot of their games, so why would I be a hater?

2nd, shooting free throws doesn't mean you have a strong inside presence, Bosh has a very poor postup game and he isn't a good shot blocker, therefore his presence isn't felt on the inside.

3rd, Bargnani is an 15-5-1.2-31 (pts-rebs-blks-mins) player, where the fck did you get 18-6.5? while Biedrins is a 12-11-1.5-30 player, Okafor a 13-10-1.7-33 player, Nene a 15-8-1.3-33 player, Lopez a 13-8-1.8-31 rookie, Bynum a 14-8-1.8-29 player, Horford a 12-9-1.4-33 player and Okur a 17-8-0.8-34 player. All of which are better centers than Bargnani. Btw next time you respond to me, try not to make sh/t up plz (18-6.5), it's really embarrassing.

4th, Hedo, Alston, Lee, Pietrus, Shard and Dwight were all big reasons why Orlando made the Finals. If I were to rank them it would be, Dwight, Shard then Hedo, no doubt he was a contributor but Orlando makes him look better than he is, he is an inconsistant scorer, commits alot of turnovers and is a poor defender, all flaws hidden by the Magic's offensive scheme (inside-out with Dwight) and Dwight's shotblocking, when his man beats him. He's a good SF no doubt but in no way is he a better SF than; Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince.

5th, Calderon is a good PG, but not a top 10 PG, Kidd, Nelson and Williams all had similar stats to what you listed above, the difference is, all of those guys made their team better. Calderon's presence was a non-factor, if he wasn't there, Raps lose, if he was there, Raps lose. Any player who is invaluable to their team, doesn't deserve to be a Top 10 rank on any list. Btw stats don't prove everything, AI puts up better stats than 90+% of the NBA, but still no one wants to sign him, why? because he doesn't make teams better, he is like Calderon except with better scoring and a never-changing attitude.

Finally, by saying "I am not even gonna reply to this bs" in your reply, you just make yourself look like an idiot. You need to stop contradicting yourself, stop making up stats and start watching more games before arguing with someone who CLEARLY has more basketball knowledge than you.

Bargnani as a full time C, averaged 18 and 7. That is what he meant.

Raph12
08-15-2009, 10:47 PM
Why do you talk down on Turkoglu so much?

When he was on the Magic, you guys were all getting excited about him and now that he left, you guys act like he didn't do anything for you guy.

Not talking him down, he's a good SF and was a key contributor to the Finals run by our Magic last season, he's just not better than: LBJ, Melo, Durantula, Pierce, Granger, Igoudala, Butler, Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince IMO. I wasn't excited about him in Orlando, that's why I'm not that excited about him in TO either. Funny part is, I have a home in both Orlando and Toronto, can't seem to get Hedo out of my life lol.

ADDED:


Bargnani as a full time C, averaged 18 and 7. That is what he meant.

Well that's a bit more clear now isn't it, but I'd still take Dwight, Yao, Jefferson, Shaq, Biedrins, Okafor, Nene, Lopez, Bynum, Horford and even Okur over him and I'm sure alot of guys would concur.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-15-2009, 10:53 PM
Not talking him down, he's a good SF and was a key contributor to the Finals run by our Magic last season, he's just not better than: LBJ, Melo, Durantula, Pierce, Granger, Igoudala, Butler, Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince IMO. I wasn't excited about him in Orlando, that's why I'm not that excited about him in TO either. Funny part is, I have a home in both Orlando and Toronto, can't seem to get Hedo out of my life lol.

ADDED:



Well that's a bit more clear now isn't it, but I'd still take Biedrins, Okafor, Nene, Lopez, Bynum, Horford and even Okur over him and I'm sure alot of guys would concur.

If he was in Orlando, I would still think the Orlando fans would have voted him either 8,9 or 10 anyways.

And for the Bargnani thing, I do think that he isn't better than guys like Okafor, Nene and Beidrins but I would still think that 18 and 7 is just as good as Okur, Lopez, Horford and a couple of other player's stats. I'm not saying I think is better than Okur, Lopez and Horford but it would still be somewhat debatable.

Raph12
08-15-2009, 11:07 PM
If he was in Orlando, I would still think the Orlando fans would have voted him either 8,9 or 10 anyways.

And for the Bargnani thing, I do think that he isn't better than guys like Okafor, Nene and Beidrins but I would still think that 18 and 7 is just as good as Okur, Lopez, Horford and a couple of other player's stats. I'm not saying I think is better than Okur, Lopez and Horford but it would still be somewhat debatable.

Hmm good arguement, but Barns IMO just isn't a real center, the most important stats for a center is rebounds and blocks, both qualities Bargnani lacks, not to mention he has little to no post game. Bargnani vs Okafor, Nene, Biedrins, Okur, Lopez and Horford is debatable as a player, but as a center all those guys all take him out.

Btw I guess Hedo in Orlando may have been voted 8, 9 or 10 by homer fans and I guess alot of Magic fans have talked him down since he bolted for TO, but for me personally, I don't see him as a Top 10 SF. I'd still take LBJ, Melo, Durantula, Pierce, Granger, Igoudala, Butler, Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince over him in a heartbeat. I always thought that the best players in Orlando were in this order: Dwight, Shard, Nelson and then Turk just my opinion though.

ink
08-15-2009, 11:12 PM
Hmm good arguement, but Barns IMO just isn't a real center, the most important stats for a center is rebounds and blocks, both qualities Bargnani lacks, not to mention he has little to no post game.

Don't blame Bargnani for that. Blame his GM for drafting him to play the position in a non-traditional way. You can't blame an Acura for not being a Hummer. Come on, if you're going to assess him at least show an appreciation for why his rebounding numbers are what they are: he plays a huge amount of the game on the perimeter and he was chosen to be a matchup problem for other bigs. And yes, we know that leaves a TEAM weakness in the low post.

Chronz
08-15-2009, 11:15 PM
Chris Bosh does not deserve to be 5th in the PF ranking, I'd take Amare and Pau over Bosh anyday. Bosh can't play defense, they have no real inside presence. Bosh at best should have been number 7

Bargnani at 5th is just a joke, Biedrins, Okafor, Nene, Lopez and even Bynum are all better than Barns. Bargnani is the only center on that list that has no postup game and can't play any defense. Bargnani at best should have been number 12 behind all the guys listed above, Al Horford and Mehmet Okur

Hedo at 8th is only the result of the Finals run Orlando had last year. Hedo was nothing before Orlando and he'll be nothing after Orlando. Hedo is as inconsistant as they come and he is a terrible defender, something the Raps aren't short of this season. If you remove the Magic's Finals run then, Hedo at best should've been ranked 13th behind: Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince

Calderon at 9th is another homer pick, Jose was supposed to be the ring leader of a very capable Raptors team last season. They struggled all season, with or without Calderon, showing his value, or should I say lack of value last season. Calderon at best should've been ranked 12th, behind Kidd, Nelson and Mo Williams

These rankings are clearly flawed and personally I have nothing against Raptor fans, but the homerness of these picks, shows their lack of respect to players clearly deserving of the ranks. IMO Bosh is the only "Top 10" anything on that Raptors team.

My final edit to your post would be this:
top 10 pf
top 15 center
top 15 sf
top 15 pg
GO RAPTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somebody had to say it

Chronz
08-15-2009, 11:16 PM
Don't blame Bargnani for that. Blame his GM for drafting him to play the position in a non-traditional way. You can't blame an Acura for not being a Hummer. Come on, if you're going to assess him at least show an appreciation for why his rebounding numbers are what they are: he plays a huge amount of the game on the perimeter and he was chosen to be a matchup problem for other bigs. And yes, we know that leaves a TEAM weakness in the low post.
Playing on the perimeter never stopped Dirk, Sheed, Okur, KG from being dominant defensive rebounders.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-15-2009, 11:17 PM
Hmm good arguement, but Barns IMO just isn't a real center, the most important stats for a center is rebounds and blocks, both qualities Bargnani lacks, not to mention he has little to no post game. Bargnani vs Okafor, Nene, Biedrins, Okur, Lopez and Horford is debatable as a player, but as a center all those guys all take him out.

Btw I guess Hedo in Orlando may have been voted 8, 9 or 10 by homer fans and I guess alot of Magic fans have talked him down since he bolted for TO, but for me personally, I don't see him as a Top 10 SF. I'd still take LBJ, Melo, Durantula, Pierce, Granger, Igoudala, Butler, Artest, Jackson, G. Wallace, Gay and Prince over him in a heartbeat. I always thought that the best players in Orlando were in this order: Dwight, Shard, Nelson and then Turk just my opinion though.

Well he has improved in blocks as the full time starting C. He averaged from 0.5 BPG last year to 1.5 BPG as the full time C. He averages more blocks than Okur, Beidrins, and Horford. I know defense is more than blocks but that is improved. Bargnani is improving on his post up. He does tend to post up but just ends up doing a turn around jumper from 4-7 feet. Not exactly the traditional post up and dunk/hook/layup but he still scores posting up.

Raph12
08-15-2009, 11:23 PM
Don't blame Bargnani for that. Blame his GM for drafting him to play the position in a non-traditional way. You can't blame an Acura for not being a Hummer. Come on, if you're going to assess him at least show an appreciation for why his rebounding numbers are what they are: he plays a huge amount of the game on the perimeter and he was chosen to be a matchup problem for other bigs. And yes, we know that leaves a TEAM weakness in the low post.

Well there you go, every good team needs a strong low post player, which the Raps lack. I'm not blaming anyone for anything, the point still stands, he is not a good center, a good player, but not a good center. How the Raptors coach plays him is irrelevant, the point is that Barns thrives at the perimeter, evident from his days playing Euro ball. I'm sure if he works at it he can develop a decent post game and decent defense, but until he does he still doesn't qualify as a Top 10 center, arguably a Top 10 player who plays center, but not a good true center. If I wanted a center I would NOT select Bargnani in my Top 20 choices in the league. Period.

ADDED:


Well he has improved in blocks as the full time starting C. He averaged from 0.5 BPG last year to 1.5 BPG as the full time C. He averages more blocks than Okur, Beidrins, and Horford. I know defense is more than blocks but that is improved. Bargnani is improving on his post up. He does tend to post up but just ends up doing a turn around jumper from 4-7 feet. Not exactly the traditional post up and dunk/hook/layup but he still scores posting up.

Like I said, he could improve his game to become a good center, but as of today he wouldn't make my Top 20 CENTER list.

Btw Biedrins also avgs 1.5 blks and all three you listed still avg more rebounds

Lakerfan8032
08-16-2009, 12:05 AM
Raptors got 4 out of five positions suckas, and 2 in the top 5 may I add.

Crow when your team does something, like say, make the playoffs. You're ignorance should embarras other Raptors fans.

Lakerfan8032
08-16-2009, 12:31 AM
WOAH WOAH DUDE. CB4 is 4th in the NBA in Freethrow attempts and 3rd in the NBA in freethrows made, how is that not in inside presence? Being a top 5 most efficient score in the NBA, I believe he should be even higher, since this is just a PF ranking. Bosh's D is not the best, but its not extremely horrible like some players.

Bargnani is a top ten Center in this league, averaging 18-6.5 as a starter and he is only going to improve. 18ppg is a lot better offensively than most the list. Personally I don't believe Bargnani is a top 5 C, but it came down to a choice between Bynum and Bargs, lol of course i'm goin to go with my man..b/c Bynum blows.

Bottom line dude, that Hedo was a big part of getting Orlando to the Nba finals, so he does deserve respect, now he got traded to the raps, noone wants to respect him now. Makes no sense. Top ten SF for sure.

Calderon. 3rd in Nba in assists, 50-fg%, 40+ from 3 land, best assist-turnover ratio. You can't just look at the raps and blame the win percentage on a few players, its just not fair to the players. Calderon has better stats than mostly everyone on that list, how is that not a top ten PG? What is a coach's dream, is Calderon's strengths.

Pure rap hater post. I am not even gonna reply to this bs. Sure raps fans over-rate their players, but the rest of PSD has also been guilty of this. All good, you can hate all you want.

Really? Then what do you call the rant that preceded that comment?

ink
08-16-2009, 12:46 AM
How the Raptors coach plays him is irrelevant

lol. Of course it's "relevant". I love it when people say it's "irrelevant" as if that's the meaning of the word. It's relevant because it is part of the understanding of the situation. How a player is utilized affects his production. Irrelevant would be "what is Salma Hyak's middle name?" That is irrelevant.


If I wanted a center I would NOT select Bargnani in my Top 20 choices in the league. Period

And that is irrelevant too. ;) You have no influence over who Colangelo chooses to play centre. Ask yourself honestly whether it matters whether you would choose Bargnani or not. Greater minds than yours and mine have determined that he's going to play center for the Raptors. And btw, in case you think your thought about Bargnani is original, I suggest you use the search function to find all the many threads that have debated this subject in our forum over the last three years. Believe me it's been covered.

Th results of these polls are meaningless. This is entertainment. Maybe it would be a good idea to relax about it considering it has zero impact on anything.

Seems like a huge waste of energy and server space to get angry about these polls or anyone who voted on them. It's a fan forum. Who cares what fans vote for? Just enjoy yourself and vote as fairly as you can. You can't control other people's votes.

ink
08-16-2009, 01:31 AM
Somebody had to say it

I already did days ago. What some people here seem to forget is that what we write or vote for on these forums is absolutely meaningless. This is just a place to talk about sports. So, if anyone really wants to seriously take part in the basketball commentary business, a sports forum is absolutely not the place for you.

FaceDown91
08-16-2009, 01:43 AM
bargs at 5 is one of the most laughable things ever. What is also laughable is horford not on the top ten list :pity:

At times, PSD can have some brains, but in this one, is where common sense falls dramatically.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
08-16-2009, 04:24 AM
Bargnani at 5th!Is this a joke!Biggest epic fail ever!

All players behind barganani are better than him.Who the hell wants bargs to be their C.

He is soft like a marshmallow.Career FG is 42%.WTF!!!Last year his FG was 38%!!!!!!!!
Biedrins FG throughout his career is 60%.18% higher than Bargs haha lol.Talk about inefficiency

Okafor 50%
Nene 55%
Lopez 53%
Bynum 57%

WTF, and dude got a 5 year/50 million contract now!So overpaid also

Chronz
08-16-2009, 04:31 AM
I already did days ago. What some people here seem to forget is that what we write or vote for on these forums is absolutely meaningless. This is just a place to talk about sports. So, if anyone really wants to seriously take part in the basketball commentary business, a sports forum is absolutely not the place for you.
So wanting to partake in intelligent basketball talk, means I want to be in the business? Not saying I dont but what gives you the right to tell me where to go?

Where should I go good sir?

ink
08-16-2009, 04:33 AM
So wanting to partake in intelligent basketball talk, means I want to be in the business? Not saying I dont but what gives you the right to tell me where to go?

Where should I go good sir?

Use your research skills.

blazerman
08-16-2009, 04:46 AM
Raptors got 4 out of five positions suckas, and 2 in the top 5 may I add.

Yeah and they still suck, so whats your point!

Chronz
08-16-2009, 04:47 AM
Use your research skills.
I cants, theys broken

blazerman
08-16-2009, 04:51 AM
Don't blame Bargnani for that. Blame his GM for drafting him to play the position in a non-traditional way. You can't blame an Acura for not being a Hummer. Come on, if you're going to assess him at least show an appreciation for why his rebounding numbers are what they are: he plays a huge amount of the game on the perimeter and he was chosen to be a matchup problem for other bigs. And yes, we know that leaves a TEAM weakness in the low post.

Yeah if thats the case Aldridge could have been in the C list because he's better than half of those guys and should've been 7th in the PF position but oh well these guys can have their 15 seconds today.

Chronz
08-16-2009, 04:52 AM
Yeah if thats the case Aldridge could have been in the C list because he's better than half of those guys and should've been 7th in the PF position but oh well these guys can have their 15 seconds today.
Take your rationale elsewhere, this is a make your vote and move along type deal.

ink
08-16-2009, 05:03 AM
Yeah if thats the case Aldridge could have been in the C list because he's better than half of those guys and should've been 7th in the PF position but oh well these guys can have their 15 seconds today.

Basically what I think.

TheGsw
08-16-2009, 06:43 AM
Well done my friend

DCSportsIsPain
08-16-2009, 10:12 AM
What's wrong with all of Canada getting behind their team? :confused: The other team, the Grizzlies, was stolen from us just as the Sonics were stolen from Seattle. The NBA is just bloody lucky we didn't just turn our backs on the whole league after the deception Michael Heisley and David Stern pulled off. So, yeah, Raptors fans are passionate. We love our team. [Some of us are a little over-zealous but I'd rather have too much enthusiasm rather than Memphis-like indifference].

I would agree there should be fewer teams in the NBA, perhaps more in other countries, like Canada, and fewer in American cities that couldn't care less.

I would even argue that "National Basketball Association" is no longer a valid name for the league.

I would not argue David Stern is a complete ****-****.

And I think you have iterated the main point ad nauseum in this and other NBA threads, which is that the polls on PSD are meaningless except to the members of PSD. They give us something to talk about. And that is about all they are good for.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a passionate fan.

Raph12
08-16-2009, 11:39 AM
lol. Of course it's "relevant". I love it when people say it's "irrelevant" as if that's the meaning of the word. It's relevant because it is part of the understanding of the situation. How a player is utilized affects his production. Irrelevant would be "what is Salma Hyak's middle name?" That is irrelevant.

The statement about him only playing a perimeter game is flawed, I've seen him try to post up guys many times this season, given his lack of size/post moves, he is unsuccessful, which is why he stays at the 3pt line 80% of the time on offense. This still doesn't explain why he doesn't get blocks and defensive rebounds. Alot of centers/pfs play a perimeter game but still get a good amount of blocks and defensive rebounds. How his coach wants him to play on offense is irrelevant, because his defense is still below avg.


And that is irrelevant too. ;) You have no influence over who Colangelo chooses to play centre. Ask yourself honestly whether it matters whether you would choose Bargnani or not. Greater minds than yours and mine have determined that he's going to play center for the Raptors. And btw, in case you think your thought about Bargnani is original, I suggest you use the search function to find all the many threads that have debated this subject in our forum over the last three years. Believe me it's been covered.

Th results of these polls are meaningless. This is entertainment. Maybe it would be a good idea to relax about it considering it has zero impact on anything.

Seems like a huge waste of energy and server space to get angry about these polls or anyone who voted on them. It's a fan forum. Who cares what fans vote for? Just enjoy yourself and vote as fairly as you can. You can't control other people's votes.

I could care less who plays center for the Raptors, a Raps fan pointed out that Barns was a top 10 center and I proved him wrong, what the Raps organisation does with their money, is of no concern to me. I highly doubt that Colangelo/anyone in Raps MGMT has a greater mind than I do, maybe greater basketball minds (which would still be debatable), but a greater mind, I think not.

I disagree that the poll results are "meaningless" these results indicate the respect that the players earn from the fans at the end of the season. To see fans vote for players non-deserving, is disrespecting the game of basketball. These arguements aren't futile, they make the point clear that "homer" voting is frowned upon and maybe, just maybe, some guys will see the extent of their poor voting choices and smarten up in the future, making all this arguing worth while.

ink
08-16-2009, 12:49 PM
I would agree there should be fewer teams in the NBA, perhaps more in other countries, like Canada, and fewer in American cities that couldn't care less.


You must have meant you would "argue" because no one has said there should be fewer teams. And lucky for the league and it's Canadian fans, you won't be listened to. Bball is financially very successful in Toronto. Huge market that fills the arena every night.

ink
08-16-2009, 12:57 PM
The statement about him only playing a perimeter game is flawed ...

Doesn't matter to me if you think it's flawed. It's the rationale the club uses and it does affect his play. If he's trying to expand his game into the low post that doesn't contradict the point I made, it just shows that he is working toward being a true hybrid. He's a developing player. Finally, I have no idea why you guys like to have arguments about players. Maybe that's why you post here but I don't.


I could care less who plays center for the Raptors, a Raps fan pointed out that Barns was a top 10 center and I proved him wrong, what the Raps organisation does with their money, is of no concern to me. I highly doubt that Colangelo/anyone in Raps MGMT has a greater mind than I do, maybe greater basketball minds (which would still be debatable), but a greater mind, I think not.

:laugh:

God I'd love to use that bit of humility as a sig. /irony


I disagree that the poll results are "meaningless" these results indicate the respect that the players earn from the fans at the end of the season. To see fans vote for players non-deserving, is disrespecting the game of basketball. These arguements aren't futile, they make the point clear that "homer" voting is frowned upon and maybe, just maybe, some guys will see the extent of their poor voting choices and smarten up in the future, making all this arguing worth while.

Uh, you think the point is original? Do you really think the point about homer voting hasn't been made 1,000 times in these threads? Nothing really justifies the ridiculous arguing either. I'm quite certain that some of you folks would argue about the colour of water if you could, or the spelling of "colour" for that matter. Any excuse to argue really. :pity:

And yes, I think the discussion on these boards has no real meaning outside of these boards. Certainly no impact on the game whatsoever. With that in mind, the arguing is only done for the sake of those who are predisposed to constant arguing.

Tom81
08-16-2009, 01:04 PM
good job

prs
08-16-2009, 01:25 PM
The center list is awful the rest are fairly accurate and id only change a couple things on each list.

ink
08-16-2009, 01:29 PM
^ Yes, let's get back on topic. Agreed that the C list is flawed.

BlondeBomber41
08-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Don't blame Bargnani for that. Blame his GM for drafting him to play the position in a non-traditional way. You can't blame an Acura for not being a Hummer. Come on, if you're going to assess him at least show an appreciation for why his rebounding numbers are what they are: he plays a huge amount of the game on the perimeter and he was chosen to be a matchup problem for other bigs. And yes, we know that leaves a TEAM weakness in the low post.

So why is it that Mehmet Okur can be a good rebounding center despite playing on the perimeter?

I know its a old example, but Raef Lafrentz back when he was good use to play nowhere but on the perimeter but was always a good rebounder and one of the leagues top shot blockers.

Your arguement is flawed because Bargnani isn't on offense 100% of the time. He spends half the game on defense, so him being a perimeter offensive player has nothing to do with his play on the defensive end. Any 7 footer playing 30+ minutes a game should accidently get more than 5 rebounds a game. His offensive game may explain the lack of offensive rebounds, but it certainly doesnt explain the lack of defensive rebounds, which is what the majority of rebounds are in the NBA.

ink
08-16-2009, 01:51 PM
So why is it that Mehmet Okur can be a good rebounding center despite playing on the perimeter?

I know its a old example, but Raef Lafrentz back when he was good use to play nowhere but on the perimeter but was always a good rebounder and one of the leagues top shot blockers.

Your arguement is flawed because Bargnani isn't on offense 100% of the time. He spends half the game on defense, so him being a perimeter offensive player has nothing to do with his play on the defensive end. Any 7 footer playing 30+ minutes a game should accidently get more than 5 rebounds a game. His offensive game may explain the lack of offensive rebounds, but it certainly doesnt explain the lack of defensive rebounds, which is what the majority of rebounds are in the NBA.

Agreed, and we know that. The point is that he did not play C until he hit the NBA so he is having to learn what other C's know instinctively because they've been playing the position since HS. What keeps encouraging the homer vote about Bargnani is that he has played well since he took JO's spot in the starting rotation. Obviously he's being over-rated in this poll, but that doesn't mean that we have to exaggerate in the other direction. The guy is a good player. He is NOT a prototypical C but he will fill a valuable role with the team. Some of you care about rankings of players at given positions. I don't see why anything matters except the contribution he makes to his team. Do they need more toughness, rebounding, shot blocking and defence out him? Yes. Does he give them enough? Not yet. Does he give them other elements that make up for the areas he needs to develop in as a player new to his position? Definitely.

It actually frustrates me when I see our forum rip Bargnani when his scoring totals are down, and praise him to the heavens when his scoring totals are up. It doesn't matter people! We know he can score. What will make him or break him is how well he improves at the other end of the floor. We know that and have been writing about it in our forum since he came into the league. Maybe you guys have just started watching and scrutinizing his play but it's old news to us. Still, his improvement was massive last year. I consider him a work-in-progress and don't care if a work-in-progress gets ranked 50th at his position. The rankings have no real impact.

DCSportsIsPain
08-16-2009, 01:52 PM
You must have meant you would "argue" because no one has said there should be fewer teams. And lucky for the league and it's Canadian fans, you won't be listened to. Bball is financially very successful in Toronto. Huge market that fills the arena every night.

Agree was the correct word. It was in reference to your comment regarding the indifference in cities like Memphis. It was not any reference to eliminating teams from Canada or barring teams from other countries.

ink
08-16-2009, 01:59 PM
Agree was the correct word. It was in reference to your comment regarding the indifference in cities like Memphis. It was not any reference to eliminating teams from Canada or barring teams from other countries.

Sorry, my bad. I misread what you wrote. I thought you were talking about eliminating teams both from indifferent markets and from Canada too. And I added Memphis obviously because that's the market Heisley heisted the team from Vancouver off to. We never had the attendance malaise that they do and they've even had playoff teams. We had Stu Jackson specials that would make today's Thunder look like the Jordan-era Bulls by comparison. Wow, the players we cheered for: Bryant Reeves, Cherokee Parks, past retirement age Grant Long (good guy but nothing left), players that chose alchohol rehab instead of reporting after trades, Steve Francis (who yielded us Mike Dickerson and scrubs), and Shareef Abdur Rahim as our franchise player (Bosh lite with a complainer's attitude). I'd say we were loyal fans. :laugh: Oh well, we had Mike Bibby ...

Anyway, off topic digression ...

Beno7500
08-16-2009, 02:19 PM
Good list. i agree with most. K Mart should be a little higher though. oh well

BlondeBomber41
08-16-2009, 02:37 PM
Agreed, and we know that. The point is that he did not play C until he hit the NBA so he is having to learn what other C's know instinctively because they've been playing the position since HS. What keeps encouraging the homer vote about Bargnani is that he has played well since he took JO's spot in the starting rotation. Obviously he's being over-rated in this poll, but that doesn't mean that we have to exaggerate in the other direction. The guy is a good player. He is NOT a prototypical C but he will fill a valuable role with the team. Some of you care about rankings of players at given positions. I don't see why anything matters except the contribution he makes to his team. Do they need more toughness, rebounding, shot blocking and defence out him? Yes. Does he give them enough? Not yet. Does he give them other elements that make up for the areas he needs to develop in as a player new to his position? Definitely.

It actually frustrates me when I see our forum rip Bargnani when his scoring totals are down, and praise him to the heavens when his scoring totals are up. It doesn't matter people! We know he can score. What will make him or break him is how well he improves at the other end of the floor. We know that and have been writing about it in our forum since he came into the league. Maybe you guys have just started watching and scrutinizing his play but it's old news to us. Still, his improvement was massive last year. I consider him a work-in-progress and don't care if a work-in-progress gets ranked 50th at his position. The rankings have no real impact.

I agree with what you are saying, but the reason why people hate Bargnani at 5 so much is whether or not he wants to be a Center or whether or not he isnt ready to be a Center, he is #5 on a list ahead of players who are much more proven as a real center than him. Nobody is saying that one day he cant be a top 5 center if he puts on muscle, becomes a better rebounder, and shoots a better %, but right now I could easily name off 10 centers who I would take above him as my teams starting center.

Obviously the rankings have no real impact on anything, but if for example Pau Gasol was voted ahead of Dirk Nowitzki on the PF list because of the amount of Laker fans or Bosh ahead of Nowitzki due to the amount of Raptor fans I would of been pretty pissed. Not because I somehow think it has any effect on how the season will play out, just at the inability of people to make a fair and accurate pick. I wasnt in the SF poll complaining about how Josh Howard wasn't listed or picking Jason Terry in the SG poll ahead of more deserving players, I dont know why everyone couldnt be the same way.