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View Full Version : Is Udonis Haslem a legit starter in the NBA?



fairandbalanced
08-13-2009, 04:22 PM
He just might be one of the average-worse Power Forwards in the league. He is rarely mentioned when people talk about good Power Forwards, teams are not crazy to trade for him, and he is basically a spot-up average shooter. He does have positives, he is an average defender, he grabs about 8 rbs and he does all the little things for his team. The thing I am more worried about Haslem is that, no other team ever place a defender on him, they will rather spend the extra defender on D Wade, he was not even a starter till Miami basically traded all their good players away to get Shaq.

I know most of you have watched him over the years...despite my concerns about him, do you think a player, who's basic expertise is doing all the little things like diving for loose balls, battling for rebounds (doesn't win most battles), should someone in his caliber be a starter? or do you think he is better off benched. In addition to your response, I would also like if you can point out the positives about him that qualifies him as a starter, if you favor him starting.

op12
08-13-2009, 04:33 PM
next to a solid, true center, yes. he is a good rebounder and defensive player. if you have an undersized c with him then your frontline may be too small. as long as he has good scorers with him, he is a good compliment.

camador22
08-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Haslem would be a great bench player but he just doesnt have the talent to start. Spoelstras biggest mistake in the postseason was to start Haslem over Beasley. It cost Miami the series imo.

BALLER71
08-13-2009, 04:44 PM
Yes, he's a great defender and a good rebounder. He's a bit inconsistent with those 18 footers but he can hit them some times. He hustles and he means a lot to the Heat.

Carey
08-13-2009, 04:51 PM
He's a solid defender, good rebounder, bit undersized, tough, he is solid but you need to have scorers around him to flourish.

Kidd>>>K-Mart
08-13-2009, 04:56 PM
Yes, he his a outsatnsding rebounder and a solid defense game with a lot of upside on the post and mid-range offense.

JWO35
08-13-2009, 04:57 PM
Yes, he is an average NBA Power Forward...he may be a tad bit overrated, but he is still a solid big man.

Joshtd1
08-13-2009, 05:09 PM
I would have much rather had him starting then Bonner.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 05:14 PM
There are a lot of better guys on the bench.

Pryzbilla, Evans, Mcdyss, Wallace, Davis, Powe, Nazr and a couple of others are better or just as good than him.

Trouble87
08-13-2009, 05:14 PM
yea he's a solid starter... plays his role well & goes hard

but he's replaceable if a better upgrade presents itself

b_rad23
08-13-2009, 05:19 PM
There are a lot of better guys on the bench.

Pryzbilla, Evans, Mcdyss, Wallace, Davis, Powe, Nazr and a couple of others are better than him.

:pity:

scully8743
08-13-2009, 05:19 PM
He's a vet and anybody who basically averages a double double over his career is good enough to start on most teams.

Draco
08-13-2009, 05:26 PM
^^ he averages 10 and 8.

StevenU2009
08-13-2009, 05:28 PM
Of course he is a solid starter-has been for years. and none of those guys listed by a previous poster can touch him "Pryzbilla, Evans, Mcdyss, Wallace, Davis, Powe, Nazr and a couple of others are better than him."
PUHleez

b_rad23
08-13-2009, 05:29 PM
^^ he averages 10 and 8.

AKA basically a double double.

Draco
08-13-2009, 05:30 PM
AKA basically a double double.

If it makes you feel better..

Tdots-Guido
08-13-2009, 05:32 PM
It depends on the situation of the team really but in my opinion he fits in perfectly with Miami. But I'm not too sure about many other teams. He would be an amazing 6th man.

Chronz
08-13-2009, 05:34 PM
Hes close to worthless on a bad team, maybe thats going too far but in terms of production its not worth playing him heavy minutes. On an average team hes a fringe starter, kind of like Rasual Butler IMO, not bad however you need a definite upgrade if hes your starter. On a championship caliber team though, he can be a very useful utility player. Stars always need to be able to count on someone to make shots they create for him, the outlet option. Haslem is one of those guys who gets more done, the less he has to do, kind of like in the Battier mold. Speaking of which, Ive always felt Haslem made a reputation out of his defense on Dirk in the Finals for far too long now.

As for your claims about defenses keying in on Wade with him out there, its 100% true, Wade's scoring and passing efficiency both swingup when Beasley is on the court with him, if this trend continues I think the Heat should move someone. The problem for Miami is that all their best players play their best ball at the same position. All of them would look so much better alongside a true C, or stud SF like Rashard Lewis.

Chronz
08-13-2009, 05:35 PM
AKA basically a double double.

more accurately known as:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hasleud01.html

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 05:36 PM
How is Evans, Pryzbilla and Nazr not better than him?

Pryzbilla averaged 5 and 9 in 24 minutes

Evans averaged 3 and 5 in 14 minutes. He has averaged 5 and 8 in 23 minutes before.

Haslem averaged 10 and 8 in 34 minutes.

Nazr has gotten 10 and 8 in 28 minutes before.

Evans, Nazr and Pryzbilla can get better stats than 10 and 8 in 34 minutes.

stawka
08-13-2009, 05:36 PM
Good defender (ask Dirk) and a solid rebounder, hustles like a machine and plays with good energy. ALWAYS makes the 18ft jumper. Put him next to Dwight/Yao/Duncan or other elite big's and he is a great starter. He doesn't need to put up shots to help you win games, I'd take Haslem on my team any day

b_rad23
08-13-2009, 05:43 PM
How is Evans, Pryzbilla and Nazr not better than him?

Pryzbilla averaged 5 and 9 in 24 minutes

Evans averaged 3 and 5 in 14 minutes. He has averaged 5 and 8 in 23 minutes before.

Haslem averaged 10 and 8 in 34 minutes.

Nazr has gotten 10 and 8 in 28 minutes before.

Evans, Nazr and Pryzbilla can get better stats than 10 and 8 in 34 minutes.

There is such a thing as defense...

Evans playing 14 minutes tells it all. How are you going to say a guy that was good enough to play 14 mpg is better than a solid starter?

Haslem has gotten 12 and 9 in 30 minutes. Cool. Nazr is older and worse defensively...Seriously?

A lot of people can get better than 7 and 5, but does that mean they're better than Battier??

Wilson
08-13-2009, 05:44 PM
You don't want to build your team around him, but he's a good rebounder and a good defender. He's a great role player, and since no-one's ever won without good role players...

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 05:50 PM
There is such a thing as defense...

Evans playing 14 minutes tells it all. How are you going to say a guy that was good enough to play 14 mpg is better than a solid starter?

Haslem has gotten 12 and 9 in 30 minutes. Cool. Nazr is older and worse defensively...Seriously?

A lot of people can get better than 7 and 5, but does that mean they're better than Battier??

Pryzbilla is a solid defender. He has career averages of 1.5 and that is better than 3/4 of the league.

Evans didn't get a chance to play last year because they were playing fast pace. Look at the stats Evans had when he was actually given the chance to play.

Sry who was in Miami 07-08 again and how did they do?

Where did I say stats meant everything? You guys were the one who brought up Haslem's stats saying he was a good rebounder so I listed those other guys rebounding stats.

b_rad23
08-13-2009, 05:56 PM
Pryzbilla is a solid defender. He has career averages of 1.5 and that is better than 3/4 of the league.

Evans didn't get a chance to play last year because they were playing fast pace. Look at the stats Evans had when he was actually given the chance to play.

Sry who was in Miami 07-08 again and how did they do?

Where did I say stats meant everything? You guys were the one who brought up Haslem's stats saying he was a good rebounder so I listed those other guys rebounding stats.

I don't really feel like arguing with someone who legitimately thinks Evans and Nazr are better than Udonis Haslem. They wouldn't get off the Heat bench.

But I'll explain.

And while Haslem was playing (48 games I believe) the Heat had Wade, Shaq/Marion, J-Will, the usuals. The fact that Wade was not his usual self and that the team didn't gel or win doesn't inflate his stats.

Haslem is three or four tiers of player higher than Evans and Nazr and some of the other guys you mentioned.

You didn't say stats were everything you just named a bunch of people who are worse defensively and didn't get any minutes last year because they're mediocre and said they're better than Haslem.

I guess Craig Smith is better, Mike Sweetney is better, Eddy Curry is better.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 06:02 PM
I don't really feel like arguing with someone who legitimately thinks Evans and Nazr are better than Udonis Haslem. They wouldn't get off the Heat bench.

And while Haslem was playing (48 games I believe) the Heat had Wade, Shaq/Marion, J-Will, the usuals. The fact that Wade was not his usual self and that the team didn't gel or win doesn't inflate his stats.

Haslem is three or four tiers of player higher than Evans and Nazr and some of the other guys you mentioned.

Haslem has those guys on offense but those guys are just as good as Haslem or even better we it comes to defense or rebouding.

Evans, and Pryzbilla is just as legit as Haslem. You haven't shown me anything to say otherwise.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 06:06 PM
I don't really feel like arguing with someone who legitimately thinks Evans and Nazr are better than Udonis Haslem. They wouldn't get off the Heat bench.

But I'll explain.

And while Haslem was playing (48 games I believe) the Heat had Wade, Shaq/Marion, J-Will, the usuals. The fact that Wade was not his usual self and that the team didn't gel or win doesn't inflate his stats.

Haslem is three or four tiers of player higher than Evans and Nazr and some of the other guys you mentioned.

You didn't say stats were everything you just named a bunch of people who are worse defensively and didn't get any minutes last year because they're mediocre and said they're better than Haslem.

I guess Craig Smith is better, Mike Sweetney is better, Eddy Curry is better.

How is Evans and Pryzbilla a worse defender? He is just as good as Haslem.

I guess averaging close to 2 blocks a game means nothing on defence. I guess to you, Howard isn't a very good defender.

Is it Evans fault he didn't get to play? He wasn't given the chance because he didn't suit their gameplan. That doesn't make him a crappy player.

I'm not going to argue with a guy who legitimately thinks Haslem is 4-5 tiers better than Evans

b_rad23
08-13-2009, 06:09 PM
How is Evans and Pryzbilla a worse defender? He is just as good as Haslem.

I guess averaging close to 2 blocks a game means nothing on defence. I guess to you, Howard isn't a very good defender.

Is it Evans fault he didn't get to play? He wasn't given the chance because he didn't suit their gameplan. That doesn't make him a crappy player.

I understand you're a raptors homer, but Evans seriously is nowhere near Haslem.

Defense is more than blocking shots. Howard is very good, and it's not just because he blocks shots.

He wasnt given the chance because he's NOT GOOD. Haslem would not ride the bench anywhere.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 06:14 PM
I understand you're a raptors homer, but Evans seriously is nowhere near Haslem.

Defense is more than blocking shots. Howard is very good, and it's not just because he blocks shots.

He wasnt given the chance because he's NOT GOOD. Haslem would not ride the bench anywhere.

I understand you are a Heat homer so you say that Haslem is 4-5 tiers better than all those guys. Evans hasn't played on the Raptors yet so how am I being a homer. I am basing my facts on when he was with other teams averaging just as good stats as Haslem.

So how the hell can you say that Przybilla sucks on defense when he gets blocks? Pryzbilla can also hold his own aganst other big men.

Wow. Do you think Amare will get the 38 minutes he averages on a team that relies on defense? If he were on the Spurs, he wouldn't get anywhere near 38 minutes. A game plan will affect a players minutes. How is Evans not good when he can average close to 10 rebounds in 24 minutes?

Wilson
08-13-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't really feel like arguing with someone who legitimately thinks Evans and Nazr are better than Udonis Haslem.


I'm not going to argue with a guy who thinks Haslem is 4-5 tiers better than Evans

:p

LayZbone
08-13-2009, 06:30 PM
:p

:laugh:

I was just going to quote them and say....."Uh, I don't know if you guys realize this, but you're totally arguing right now."

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 06:33 PM
:p

Ya I kinda did that on purpose

Lo Porto
08-13-2009, 06:41 PM
He would start for less than 10 NBA teams. If PF's were all spread out in a fantasy draft way where one team doesn't have two starters (like Odom and Gasol, Boozer and Millsap), Haslem would probably not be a starter. I don't think he's a top 30 NBA PF.

JWO35
08-13-2009, 07:42 PM
lol Reggie Evans :p

Kakaroach
08-13-2009, 07:51 PM
He's pretty good but he's under-sized. Good defender but yea he was a starter next to Shaq, I wouldn't consider him good enough to be a starter today though.

Beno7500
08-13-2009, 07:58 PM
I think he is a 6th man.

MTar786
08-13-2009, 08:28 PM
haslem is an above average player. n an ok starting PF.. i remember watching him in 04-05 and 05-06 season when i used to care about the miami heat. n haslem really helped miami win that championship. he does a lot of small things. hustles. got a good midrange jumper and is an UNDERATED defender. his d was crucial in the finals n he came through.

IndyRealist
08-13-2009, 08:38 PM
I'd take him over Matt Bonner or Zach Randolph or whoever Milwaukee's going to start. Isn't Jersey starting Yi?

A lot of what Haslem does won't show up in the box score. Hustle, energy, good defense, spacing the floor, playing multiple positions, etc. He does whatever is asked of him and never complains (start? play off the bench? play C?) Every coach wants guys like him on the roster. I've been wanting the Pacers to trade for him the last two years.

Is he a definite starter? No, it really depends on the team. But players like him will always be undervalued by people who haven't watched him and just look at box scores.

LayZbone
08-13-2009, 09:19 PM
A lot of what Haslem does won't show up in the box score. Hustle, energy, good defense, spacing the floor, playing multiple positions, etc. He does whatever is asked of him and never complains (start? play off the bench? play C?) Every coach wants guys like him on the roster. I've been wanting the Pacers to trade for him the last two years.

Is he a definite starter? No, it really depends on the team. But players like him will always be undervalued by people who haven't watched him and just look at box scores.

great post.

Chronz
08-13-2009, 09:25 PM
Good defender (ask Dirk) and a solid rebounder, hustles like a machine and plays with good energy. ALWAYS makes the 18ft jumper. Put him next to Dwight/Yao/Duncan or other elite big's and he is a great starter. He doesn't need to put up shots to help you win games, I'd take Haslem on my team any day
He had 1 good series. Dirk has dominated him since then

D-Will4Prez
08-13-2009, 09:48 PM
He is very solid backup. Maybe a starter on some sucky teams...I wouldn't mind him as a 6th man either

Nets fan 93
08-13-2009, 10:25 PM
There are a lot of better guys on the bench.

Pryzbilla, Evans, Mcdyss, Wallace, Davis, Powe, Nazr and a couple of others are better or just as good than him.
Davis, Nazr and powe are not better than Haslem
and he is a lottt better than Evans
Homer

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 10:29 PM
Davis, Nazr and powe are not better than Haslem
and he is a lottt better than Evans
Homer

I am basing my facts on when he was with other teams. And when he was with other teams, he was doing just as much as Haslem.

Evans is as legit as Haslem on defense, rebouding and physical play.

J$mo0th_3o5
08-13-2009, 10:39 PM
You're such a damn homer:pity:

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 10:43 PM
You're such a damn homer:pity:

How?

Evans is one of the best efficient rebounders in the league. He is also a rugged defender. He will do whatever just to get that damn ball.

You people are the one being a homer for saying Haslem is WAY better than him.

JWO35
08-13-2009, 10:47 PM
How?

Evans is one of the more efficient rebounders in the league. He is also a rugged defender. He will do whatever just to get that damn ball.

You people are the one being a homer for saying Haslem is WAY better than him.

You should ask who's better Reggie Evans or Udonis Haslem in the NBA Comparison thread...

THiiRTYONE
08-13-2009, 10:50 PM
he's not bad, but i can see him replaced styll.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-13-2009, 10:54 PM
You should ask who's better Reggie Evans or Udonis Haslem in the NBA Comparison thread...

Who goes on that page now a days?

DQL
08-13-2009, 11:14 PM
As a Heat fan, i'd say he's an average starter. He's undersized and doesnt have a lot of potential. He's more of a complementary player to a star big man than a star big man himself. He's kinda overachieved during his career

Nets fan 93
08-13-2009, 11:16 PM
How?

Evans is one of the best efficient rebounders in the league. He is also a rugged defender. He will do whatever just to get that damn ball.

You people are the one being a homer for saying Haslem is WAY better than him.
Haslem does everything Evans does... but he also has a J...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eraQmLe99zo

plus he can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxERAV-lIsM

richiesaurus310
08-13-2009, 11:35 PM
he fd serena williams so he has my respect. hes legit.

Kyben36
08-13-2009, 11:39 PM
depends on the team, but I see him kinda like a player that could be a floater ( Like Joe Smith ) only he found a team that he works for.

Damela
08-13-2009, 11:39 PM
Haslem has those guys on offense but those guys are just as good as Haslem or even better we it comes to defense or rebouding.

Evans, and Pryzbilla is just as legit as Haslem. You haven't shown me anything to say otherwise.

Stats don't tell the whole story. The reason Halem is better than those you metioned is because of the intangibles. None of those players has the leadership, work ethic and dedication that Haslem has. None of them bring enery to the game(besides Pryzbillia)like Haslem does. None of those players are as reliable as Haslem is when he is in the game. Haslem overall knowledge of the game is much higher than those and he is more consistent. This is why Haslem is better than these players.

ChaseMe
08-13-2009, 11:54 PM
Great leader, toughness and rebounding. For Miami he's a legit starter but Beasley should get more minutes at the PF position so he can have a breakout season. Nba-wise, good back up PF.

kozelkid
08-14-2009, 12:22 AM
I understand you're a raptors homer, but Evans seriously is nowhere near Haslem.

Defense is more than blocking shots. Howard is very good, and it's not just because he blocks shots.

He wasnt given the chance because he's NOT GOOD. Haslem would not ride the bench anywhere.

I'm sorry but the only homer is you.
Evans and Pryzbilla are every bit as good as Haslem. I'd say Evans and Haslem are essentially tied, maybe Haslem is SLIGHTLY better. Pryz is better than Haslem though.
Haslem is an average pf, simple as that. IN today's league where championship teams tend to have a star pf, he wouldn't start. Still get starter minutes.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-14-2009, 12:57 AM
Stats don't tell the whole story. The reason Halem is better than those you metioned is because of the intangibles. None of those players has the leadership, work ethic and dedication that Haslem has. None of them bring enery to the game(besides Pryzbillia)like Haslem does. None of those players are as reliable as Haslem is when he is in the game. Haslem overall knowledge of the game is much higher than those and he is more consistent. This is why Haslem is better than these players.

Do you not know how didicated Reggie Evans is to winning?

Watch this and it will show just how much he really wants to win a game.

http://www.noob.us/humor/reggie-evans-violates-chris-kaman/

Evans works his *** of for the rebound. He battles for every rebound. How does he not have work ethic?

Leadership I would not know. I have never seen Haslem lead so ya.

Evans is typically known as an energy guy.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-14-2009, 01:04 AM
Haslem does everything Evans does... but he also has a J...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eraQmLe99zo

plus he can do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxERAV-lIsM

Reggie Evans can do this.

I guarantee no one else in the league would do that to win a game.

http://www.noob.us/humor/reggie-evans-violates-chris-kaman/

theuuord
08-14-2009, 02:13 AM
Haslem is a decent starter the less offense he has to use. His skill curve is very steep downwards with regards to possession use - he's extremely efficient if he only has to use 15% of his team's possessions, but anything higher and he starts a massive downturn.

He's had a couple of good years but you really can't utilize him efficiently unless you've got at least two great scorers in there with him (Like Shaq and Wade during those years). He's a great rebounder and a good clean up guy, but he's best left as the 4th or 5th offensive option at all times.

HuRRiCaNeS324
08-14-2009, 02:20 AM
Whoever picked option 2 doesn't really know how haslem plays like the heat fans do. He is a solid defender and a great rebounder. Not to mention one of the best hustle players in the nba. He draws a **** load a charges and dives at everything in site. He is a decent shooter and will get some put backs, but thats about it offensively. I love haslem and there's a reason why he is one of our captains.

stawka
08-14-2009, 03:56 AM
He had 1 good series. Dirk has dominated him since then

That's the thing though, maybe you're expecting too much from him. Dirk is SUPPOSED to dominate him and 99% of other players in the NBA - he's a top10 player in the league. Haslem isn't supposed to have a "good series" him or anyone, hell he isn't even supposed to have his own thread on PSD. He's a solid role-player that defends, hustles and rebounds well, especially for his size.

When Shaq was traded to the Suns, we knew Haslem's game would drop off a bit. I'm not implying Shaq made Haslem because he didn't, but he did make his game a lot easier on both ends of the floor.

Chronz
08-14-2009, 04:20 AM
That's the thing though, maybe you're expecting too much from him. Dirk is SUPPOSED to dominate him and 99% of other players in the NBA - he's a top10 player in the league. Haslem isn't supposed to have a "good series" him or anyone, hell he isn't even supposed to have his own thread on PSD. He's a solid role-player that defends, hustles and rebounds well, especially for his size.

When Shaq was traded to the Suns, we knew Haslem's game would drop off a bit. I'm not implying Shaq made Haslem because he didn't, but he did make his game a lot easier on both ends of the floor.

True, but even then hes been getting too much love for my liking, defensively that is.

b_rad23
08-14-2009, 12:54 PM
I'm sorry but the only homer is you.
Evans and Pryzbilla are every bit as good as Haslem. I'd say Evans and Haslem are essentially tied, maybe Haslem is SLIGHTLY better. Pryz is better than Haslem though.
Haslem is an average pf, simple as that. IN today's league where championship teams tend to have a star pf, he wouldn't start. Still get starter minutes.

Maybe you didn't read my post correctly. I said 1) that blocks aren't the sole determinant for defensive contribution and 2) that Haslem was better defensively than Evans and Pryzbilla. Not only is Haslem better offensively than both of these players, he's a better overall defender. Pryzbilla is the better rebounder/shotblocker, though and depending on what you value someone might say he's better.

I personally don't think he's the better player, however I value him more because he's a true center.

And as for the "championship teams" comment, he won one three years ago as a starter...

Unruly Fan
08-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Udonis Haslem, possibly undersized at PF?

At this point in his career I feel that he could still contribute but he'll be most effective coming off the bench.

jimbobjarree
08-14-2009, 12:59 PM
no

what54!?
08-14-2009, 01:03 PM
On a championship team yeah if you have a great big man next to him or scorers who people have to double team. On an average team no

D-Will4Prez
08-14-2009, 01:34 PM
He would be sick behind Millsap.

J_M_B
08-14-2009, 01:50 PM
Udonis Haslem is a great defender and a solid rebounder. He can and does all the liUttle things. He brings leadership and mentors younger players about the game as well as lead by example. He's has the dedication, passion, and a great work ethic for the game that you can't teach. He's a proven winner and brings energy to all games. He spreads the floor and gives it his all on every play like it's his last.

He's a guy you would want to have to have on your championship team. He's an excellent role player and would fit into almost any team. It might seem like i'm overrating him and all, but it's the truth. Yeah, he might be undersize or not an elite big game in today's league, but he's a type of guy all coaches would love to have on their team. You ask him to come off the bench or play center you bet he will. Udonis is an extremly loyal player to the Miami Heat. Why do you think Pat Riley has kept around this long?

Is he a legit starter? I say he's a great role player and a proven vet that would be a valuble piece to any contending team. I'll have Haslem on my team anyday.

Fireworld
08-14-2009, 04:18 PM
NO..he is a bench player (6th man at best)