PDA

View Full Version : Would you sign with a weak roster and last place knicks in 2010



rapstakeall
08-12-2009, 12:50 AM
With so much change in the nba offseason this year in free agency pick up sign and trades, and with next years annouced changes in salary cap,taxation,etc and a weak roster that has had no sort of upgrade or role player inserted over the offseason and no real sight or availability of quality free agents left. It would take atleast 3 superstars on that squad to even make a dent in the east, so why would any star leave a playoff or contender for the last place knick. Im not bashing the knicks here (nor do i want to see any silly i hate new york knicks,yankees,mets,rangers,islanders,giant,jets,p hew......post on here) ive been a ball fan all my life and before toronto got it team i was and still am a knick fan.(2nd team now) the whole talk of clearing the roster and signing two real superstar sounded good 10 months ago, but with all the for warning put out i find sad and even shameful that the kincks never diverted from this plan and added some role or quality player to better attract some stars. Now with two months till season starts and the same last place roster would you even think of signing with the knicks in 2010, please post why you think the stars are coming in 2010

Fireworld
08-12-2009, 01:12 AM
no.

joe j.09
08-12-2009, 01:15 AM
chandler, galinari will both be very solid roll players, hill and douglas both young 1st round draft picks this year with lots of potential.......looks like lee and nate might be brought back on 1 year deals so u can sign ur two max guys and then sign them and go over the cap so plenty of roll players!......u add a lebron and bosh or amare to that team right there and the Donnie walsh will have the flexability of the MLE and he can add players that teams are looking to dump because of a bad contract because it wont matter after we sign our two max guys we all know the knicks could spend close to the yankees and go way way over thae cap.....idk if you agree with everything i said but i think DW is possibly laying the foundation for a possible dynasty with this team if he gets bosh and lebron......kobe will be that much older and lebron will be right in his prime along with bosh, with youngsters with lots of potential with chandler and galinari and hill, with possible lee and nate resigning next offseason after we sign our two max guys......

theLgndKllr35
08-12-2009, 01:18 AM
They've cleared house for that specific offseason, and I think the players will know they want to compete in 2010.

29$JerZ
08-12-2009, 01:19 AM
With so much change in the nba offseason this year in free agency pick up sign and trades, and with next years annouced changes in salary cap,taxation,etc and a weak roster that has had no sort of upgrade or role player inserted over the offseason and no real sight or availability of quality free agents left. It would take atleast 3 superstars on that squad to even make a dent in the east, so why would any star leave a playoff or contender for the last place knick. Im not bashing the knicks here (nor do i want to see any silly i hate new york knicks,yankees,mets,rangers,islanders,giant,jets,p hew......post on here) ive been a ball fan all my life and before toronto got it team i was and still am a knick fan.(2nd team now) the whole talk of clearing the roster and signing two real superstar sounded good 10 months ago, but with all the for warning put out i find sad and even shameful that the kincks never diverted from this plan and added some role or quality player to better attract some stars. Now with two months till season starts and the same last place roster would you even think of signing with the knicks in 2010, please post why you think the stars are coming in 2010

Knicks habve no star player but are normally in every game they play, we have no closer so we lose a lot of close games compared to other teams.

That whole Knick Fiasco is Isiah's Fault, we are rebuilding from it. Same as how Detroit is rebuilding. 1 star on the Knicks makes us a playoff team.

We have 1 great coach that players lwould like to play for. We have the biggest stage for you to perform at. We have Cap for 1 MAX star and a young/cheap supporting class.

We wanted two max stars but the economy messed that up, 1 in 2010 and 1 in 2011 is not out of the loop. Knicks would be ecstatic to get even 1 star player, we just put ourselves in a position to obtain a star for the first time in years. We have been in CAP hell for years, so we haven't had a legit star since the Patrick Ewing and Allan Houston days. 2010 is going to be a good FA year for us, regardless of who is available.

Raph12
08-12-2009, 01:21 AM
You never know, most of the max contract guys want to contend for a championship and I know NY can sign two of them so that means that 2 of the top players could play together for a title, but so can Miami, so why not join a playoff team instead of a lottery team? Maybe Wade and Bosh in Miami, Lebron and Amare in NY? I'd like to think Lebron would choose NY over Miami just because NY has a bigger market or maybe everyone returns to their city, that's the beauty of the NBA, anything can happen.

EDIT: Scratch that NY only has enough cap for one max player, but Miami still has cap for 2

b_rad23
08-12-2009, 01:24 AM
You never know, most of the guys want to contend for a championship and I know NY can sign two of them so that means that 2 of the top players could play together for a title, but so can Miami, so why not join a playoff team instead of a lottery team? Maybe Wade and Bosh in Miami, Lebron and Amare in NY? I'd like to think Lebron would choose NY over Miami just because NY has a bigger market or maybe everyone returns to their city, that's the beauty of the NBA, anything can happen.

They can only afford 1. Miami is the only team that has the cap for two (almost three if they don't exercise the option on Jones or Cook.

blazerman
08-12-2009, 01:24 AM
Hell ya I'd sign for the league minimum as long as they threw in a few cheerleaders on the side to boost my spirits after all the losses :up:

Im guessing your talking about if I was LBJ or somebody though and I'd opt for a place I would like to be and a team that already had a good nucleus. New York is a pretty happening place and a guy like LBJ could attract others on the cheap just to play alongside him but it's highly unlikely he will go there because of the lack of talent and no 1st rd draft pick next yr or any veteran presence.

D Antoni is a crafty coach and Walsh is a good GM so well see what they come up with.

Raph12
08-12-2009, 01:42 AM
They can only afford 1. Miami is the only team that has the cap for two (almost three if they don't exercise the option on Jones or Cook.

^^^Notice the edit in my previous comment

koreancabbage
08-12-2009, 02:10 AM
imagine another big 3 combo with Lebron, Wade and Bosh? that's a dynasty waiting to happen!

if dreams can only come true~ lol

Lebron and Wade will definitely benefit from one another. Bosh will be their sidekick.

of course, never going to happen~

i don't care where it happens- just make it happen Miami~ or try to anyways.

how about Lebron and Amare and Michael Redd? that's pretty deadly there.

all i know, wherever Lebron signs, there's gonna be some players that want to play with him and win championships.

Passion=Success
08-12-2009, 02:12 AM
I'll be honest, this whole cap-clearing maneuver could end up being a total bust as there is no guarantee that any of the premier free agents will sign with us. Cynicism aside, the 2010 free agency will certainly be an exciting time for all of us fans and many people, myself included, can't wait to see how things turn out. My thoughts are that this year will essentially be a "tryout" if you will, in the sense that all of the young players on the Knicks will have plenty of time to get adjusted to the NBA and hopefully develop as players. If guys like chandler, danilo, hill, nate, and douglas are able to mature as players we could end up with as nice supporting cast who would likely thrive playing with an all star caliber player. These stars that will become available will look for a few things: money, a stage, and a team. Money is a non-issue as many will be getting close to or max offers, NY is possibly the biggest stage for any sport, and if our young players work out..we could have a really solid, young, and closely-knit team come 2010. Have faith Knicks fans..I know I'm crossing my fingers!

rapstakeall
08-12-2009, 02:20 AM
just replying back to my friend JOE J 09: no matter who they are the were almost LAST place in 08-09 and to bank on two rookies who had extremely poor summer league perfomances is sad, and as for bosh wade and lebron they all want contender team, there is 95% that the knick will finish in the same spot or worst i dont think that make em a contender

MajorFloridaFan
08-12-2009, 02:23 AM
No i rahter sign with a contender

Ebbs
08-12-2009, 02:28 AM
I prob would why not there trying to improve and if there willing to pay yeah....

Kyben36
08-12-2009, 02:34 AM
depends, if they are getting more help than that. if they can pair Lebron and Bosh (I have heard rumors they want to be on a team together, same with Boozer and Wade, I might consider it, but otherwise, no.

Why would james go to the knicks if he has a team that can get him help.

blazerman
08-12-2009, 02:36 AM
I really think Amare will be heading to NY because of his connect with DAntoni and they will have the money to pay him and he will be the 1st option there, all musts for Amare.

Im not sure if Felton resigned in Charlotte but if not I can see him taking the rest of Knicks cap money next summer a a FA

Felton,Chandler,Galo,Hill,Amare would be a start for the Knicks and their run & gun offense.

D Lee will be history next summer and Im not sure about Nate but he could stick around. But I dont see the Knicks as much more than that next yr.

joe j.09
08-12-2009, 03:01 AM
awnser me this cause i am honesstly curious.....Y would lebron not sign an extension now if he wanted to stay in Cleveland? i was told he could make around 8 million more if he signed during the season then if he signed in the summer......so y wouldnt he sign now and prove to everyone hes staying in Cleveland and they could have gotten a few more pieces maybe ariza signs with cleveland if lebron signed an extension even possibly rasheed wallace would have signed there for two years instead of boston. Lebron said he wants to be the richest man in the world numerous times so that 8 million does matter to him.

all arrows point in the direction of him leaving.....and NY makes sense.....if he goes to NY and wins a few championships he would be the king of the city not to mention on every billboard and on every commercial like peyton manning is.

NY is the mecca of basketball and i think lebron wants to be the king of it.

J-Relo
08-12-2009, 03:43 AM
Money Talks... i don't know about guys really worth max contract, but Kicks can always overpay for a star player and get him...

TheMicrowave
08-12-2009, 03:49 AM
No.

Wade - Wants the heat to build now and contend now or he is leaving. Why would he go to the Knicks? Unless he is money hungry which I doubt.

LBJ - he had the best team last year and they want him to stay. Why would he leave Cavs to play on a worse team? Maybe he will because he is only 24 and does not mind waiting for the rebuilid.

If the Knicks get anyone else, it won't surprise me.

awr0430
08-12-2009, 03:54 AM
No.

If I were Lebron and i was leaving Cleveland i would go to NJ. they have a pretty good team there already now.

Wade will more than likely stay in Miami. And Amare is prolly secretly moving all his stuff to NY right now right beside D'antoni, lol.

I just don't see what the Knicks have to offer over some of the other teams in the league. Just my opinion tho.

Giaps
08-12-2009, 09:12 AM
Epic failure of a thread.

1st to 3rd
08-12-2009, 09:20 AM
Gallinari and Chandler have the potential to be better than any player not named James or O'neil on Cleveland's roster. Throw in D'Antoni's system that the Olympic team loved to play in and the market opportunity and I'd say there's a good chance of LeBron to NY.

reemy
08-12-2009, 09:22 AM
Epic failure of a thread.

only sayin that cuz ur a knicks fan

J-Relo
08-12-2009, 09:33 AM
No.

Wade - Wants the heat to build now and contend now or he is leaving. Why would he go to the Knicks? Unless he is money hungry which I doubt.

LBJ - he had the best team last year and they want him to stay. Why would he leave Cavs to play on a worse team? Maybe he will because he is only 24 and does not mind waiting for the rebuilid.

If the Knicks get anyone else, it won't surprise me.

he made them the best (the best record team), take him out and there is nobody that good, just add Lebron to any other team and you have better than last year Cavs

magichatnumber9
08-12-2009, 09:42 AM
certain free agents would be stupid not to think about the Knicks in 2010. You got a great coach, and plenty of money, and you should have a well spring of talent around you. The only down side to New York is the media. I have been saying this all along, New York sports are crippled by the media. The media make that place a nightmare to play.

DCSportsIsPain
08-12-2009, 09:49 AM
The answer is: No

Why would a superstar go to a worse team for less money?

Did we all suddenly forget about the Arenas Rule that allows teams to exceed the salary cap and the Unrestricted Free Agent Max Contract Rules under the CBA?

Teams can ALWAYS pay their own free agents more than other teams can pay to sign them away. Whether or not they do is up to the team.

All the cap room in the world doesn't allow the Knicks to offer more money to LeBron than Cleveland is allowed to offer, or to Bosh than Toronto is allowed to offer, or to (insert likely max contract name of your choice here).

Cap room alone is no guarantee of anything.

Lo Porto
08-12-2009, 09:50 AM
Not a Knicks fan, but hell yes I would.

1. NY has an unreal market and fan base
2. NY has money and will spend money to build around you
3. If a star goes to NY, they get to rebuild a power and be remembered forever as bringing NY back. It's not like trying to make the Clippers or OKC relevant, it's about being the "savior" for a once strong franchise. Considering the fan base, you'd be a legend forever and ever. If LeBron doesn't win a title with the Cavs, he'll be remembered as being great but not a legend. If he was to rebuild the Knicks into a contender but not even win a title, he'd still be a legend to NY fans.

KnicksR4Real
08-12-2009, 09:50 AM
We really aren't bad, we will be the sleepers next year and prove all of you wrong. We don't need Lebron and we have a better team if you take away Lebron. We have great young talent and their is no reason why someone wouldn't want to sign with us. We are the greatest basketball city in the world.

KnicksR4Real
08-12-2009, 09:52 AM
awnser me this cause i am honesstly curious.....Y would lebron not sign an extension now if he wanted to stay in Cleveland? i was told he could make around 8 million more if he signed during the season then if he signed in the summer......so y wouldnt he sign now and prove to everyone hes staying in Cleveland and they could have gotten a few more pieces maybe ariza signs with cleveland if lebron signed an extension even possibly rasheed wallace would have signed there for two years instead of boston. Lebron said he wants to be the richest man in the world numerous times so that 8 million does matter to him.

all arrows point in the direction of him leaving.....and NY makes sense.....if he goes to NY and wins a few championships he would be the king of the city not to mention on every billboard and on every commercial like peyton manning is.

NY is the mecca of basketball and i think lebron wants to be the king of it.


You see this guy speaks it right, you don't know what your talking about, we do. Joe knows exactly what he is talking about and backs it up, nice post.

KnicksR4Real
08-12-2009, 09:53 AM
only sayin that cuz ur a knicks fan

go milk a cow

28+24+5=3champs
08-12-2009, 09:54 AM
in d'antoni's system a guy like lebron can average a triple double. look at the numbers that steve nash put up under d'antoni and they are significantly better than his years without d'antoni. if im a big time scorer than yes i would love to sign with the knicks

StevenU2009
08-12-2009, 10:00 AM
Absolutely NOT. Why would they? There are plenty of good teams and the cap is going down. The Knick "strategy" if you can even call it that is so lame it is beyond belief. I love the Knicks and will always be a fan (sadly), but I am not delusional nor stupid. I do believe they have a few decent players-more than just Gallinari and Chandler, but I am not overly excited about either rookie-at all-and the others will be gone to teams that actually try to win every year. Imagine that? My question is: How can Knick management expect anyone to buy tickets this year (or last year) when they went public with their pathetic plan a year ago to suck till 2010 in order to lure LeBron and another???
As an aside can we PLEASE stop putting Boozer in a class with LeBron and Wade? Bosh and Amare and good but Boozer is a loser-no D no team play- an on court chemistry killer if you ask me.
It makes me sooooo mad!

DCSportsIsPain
08-12-2009, 10:15 AM
in d'antoni's system a guy like lebron can average a triple double. look at the numbers that steve nash put up under d'antoni and they are significantly better than his years without d'antoni. if im a big time scorer than yes i would love to sign with the knicks

This is comparing apples to oranges.

Nash can average a triple-double because he is unselfish.

James can average a triple-double because he is selfish.

Nash can also do it in less than half the shot attempts.

The system has nothing to do with it.

James can't average a triple-double in any system if teams don't have to worry about stopping anyone else. James could average a triple-double in Los Angeles, Miami, Denver, Washington, any team that has another legitimate threat. The Knicks do not, and most likely will not.

If James can't carry Cleveland past the second round, what makes anyone think he would leave his home state for less money and the added pressure of trying to carry an even worse team in a far larger media market?

It seems delusional to think that someone notorious for being a selfish complainer would want the pressures of playing in New York. How'd it work out for Stephon Marbury?

tbo41fan
08-12-2009, 10:16 AM
]We really aren't bad, we will be the sleepers next year and prove all of you wrong.[/B] We don't need Lebron and we have a better team if you take away Lebron. We have great young talent and their is no reason why someone wouldn't want to sign with us. We are the greatest basketball city in the world.

This is probably one of the dumbest posts i've ever seen....

Yes, You ARE really that bad...
You will not be sleepers, you will finish right about the same spot next year...
If you want to win, you DO need Lebron or someother big name superstar...You're team right now is BAD!

Lo Porto
08-12-2009, 10:28 AM
Chandler, Gallinari, Hill, and Douglas are decent young players. If the Knicks keep Lee and sign Sessions, that would be a great young complimentary roster. Add a star, and that's a damn good team in 2010. If the Knicks could find a way to dump Jeffries or Curry, a couple MLE type guys could add even more.

RaiderLakersA's
08-12-2009, 10:35 AM
Me, personally?

Would I sign??? Would I sign?!?!?!?

Hell yeah, I would sign!!! Knicks, Kings, Bucks, you name it!

One year at an NBA rookie salary would set me up for life! Or if they wanted to give me "life experience" and pay me at the veteran's minimum I could buy homes for everyone in my immediate family.

rhaas74
08-12-2009, 10:41 AM
awnser me this cause i am honesstly curious.....Y would lebron not sign an extension now if he wanted to stay in Cleveland? i was told he could make around 8 million more if he signed during the season then if he signed in the summer......so y wouldnt he sign now and prove to everyone hes staying in Cleveland and they could have gotten a few more pieces maybe ariza signs with cleveland if lebron signed an extension even possibly rasheed wallace would have signed there for two years instead of boston. Lebron said he wants to be the richest man in the world numerous times so that 8 million does matter to him.

all arrows point in the direction of him leaving.....and NY makes sense.....if he goes to NY and wins a few championships he would be the king of the city not to mention on every billboard and on every commercial like peyton manning is.

NY is the mecca of basketball and i think lebron wants to be the king of it.

By not signing an extenstion it has made the Cavs FO keep the players coming in. If LeBron would have signed an extension last week, do you think that the Cavs would have gotten Powe? Or do you think they would have traded for Shaq had he already been locked up?

By not signing it is making the supporting cast around him get better. Add to that the fact that not signing yet has led to more cap flexibility for the time being. That $8 million this year is not that big of a deal, considering all of the extra endorsements he would get when he starts winning championships. And guess what? Cleveland is better suited to get him those championships. Therefore, more championships equal more money and Cleveland is the better option.

And I love how you mention Peyton Manning. That just proves the point that you don't have to live in NYC to be on all of the billboards.

Storch
08-12-2009, 11:16 AM
I would play for the knicks, that organization has a big market. All it needs is a superstar, then the money will start rollin... players would start coming... and fans would start cheering.

still a fan
08-12-2009, 11:40 AM
I'm by no mean going to push any rookie who has not stepped on the court yet, but a young core of Chandler and Gallo, and we hope Sessions is a very good start...

Now everyone wants their max FA to have an ego bigger than life, and we know some do..

with that said the Knicks do compete, Mike is a players coach and a very likeable system, and what Max guy with a big ego doesn't want to be the sole reason to catapole them into the playoffs?

Now as a Max FA I could also be sold on Curry and JJ's contract's expiring for 18MIL for the 2011 season...so you come here and be a God for 2010 and in 2011 with one more Max FA and maybe some fillers this team turns into a contender if not champion...

Its just way to easy to go to a club that's suppose to win, but using LBJ as an example think about his ego taking a team that has been in the lottery to the promise land..

Talk about recognition and having the NY rolling out the red carpet, having your poster on every bus, subway, building, outside every tunnel, bridge, on wall street...

talk about being bigger than life, it wouldn't get any bigger...

still a fan
08-12-2009, 11:45 AM
This is probably one of the dumbest posts i've ever seen....

Yes, You ARE really that bad...
You will not be sleepers, you will finish right about the same spot next year...
If you want to win, you DO need Lebron or someother big name superstar...You're team right now is BAD!

Relax lol:

He meant to say The knicks are better than Cleveland without LBJ in his opinion...

that's all:)

Jobama
08-12-2009, 11:49 AM
Yeh why not? ur gonna be the star of a team and lead a team that wants to compete there and then, whats better than that?

rapstakeall
08-12-2009, 11:53 AM
FROM A SILLY POST SOMEONE WROTE
3. If a star goes to NY, they get to rebuild a power and be remembered forever as bringing NY back. It's not like trying to make the Clippers or OKC relevant, it's about being the "savior" for a once strong franchise. Considering the fan base, you'd be a legend forever and ever. If LeBron doesn't win a title with the Cavs, he'll be remembered as being great but not a legend. If he was to rebuild the Knicks into a contender but not even win a title, he'd still be a legend to NY fans.[/QUOTE] so your telling me mark jackson & patrick ewing will be legends.................wtf huh!!!!!!

rapstakeall
08-12-2009, 12:04 PM
.

[If James can't carry Cleveland past the second round, what makes anyone think he would leave his home state for less money and the added pressure of trying to carry an even worse team in a far larger media market?

It seems delusional to think that someone notorious for being a selfish complainer would want the pressures of playing in New York. How'd it work out for Stephon MarburyQUOTE]

THIS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE NY DOES HAVE A RELENTLESS MEDIA

Becks2307
08-12-2009, 12:12 PM
FROM A SILLY POST SOMEONE WROTE
3. If a star goes to NY, they get to rebuild a power and be remembered forever as bringing NY back. It's not like trying to make the Clippers or OKC relevant, it's about being the "savior" for a once strong franchise. Considering the fan base, you'd be a legend forever and ever. If LeBron doesn't win a title with the Cavs, he'll be remembered as being great but not a legend. If he was to rebuild the Knicks into a contender but not even win a title, he'd still be a legend to NY fans. so your telling me mark jackson & patrick ewing will be legends.................wtf huh!!!!!![/QUOTE]



but they are....

Raph12
08-12-2009, 12:13 PM
No.

If I were Lebron and i was leaving Cleveland i would go to NJ. they have a pretty good team there already now.

Wade will more than likely stay in Miami. And Amare is prolly secretly moving all his stuff to NY right now right beside D'antoni, lol.

I just don't see what the Knicks have to offer over some of the other teams in the league. Just my opinion tho.

I wouldn't say a team filled with young unproven players is a good team, they are potentially a good team but a good team is stretching it. If I'm Lebron I'm staying in Cleveland, they have enough to make solid championship runs, if Orlando and Boston weren't so overstacked it would arguably be an LA-Cle finals for years to come. Cleveland is the only good team that can sign Lebron besides Miami who can sign 2 max contracts, I don't think Lebron will want to play with Wade both will have ego probs.

Btw I think a big market is pretty much all NY has left to offer.

tbo41fan
08-12-2009, 12:27 PM
Relax lol:

He meant to say The knicks are better than Cleveland without LBJ in his opinion...

that's all:)

O ok...well that makes his post make more sense..lol Thanks!

Draco
08-12-2009, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't say a team filled with young unproven players is a good team, they are potentially a good team but a good team is stretching it. If I'm Lebron I'm staying in Cleveland, they have enough to make solid championship runs, if Orlando and Boston weren't so overstacked it would arguably be an LA-Cle finals for years to come. Cleveland is the only good team that can sign Lebron besides Miami who can sign 2 max contracts, I don't think Lebron will want to play with Wade both will have ego probs.

Btw I think a big market is pretty much all NY has left to offer.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron stayed with the Cav's. He's said he was happy with the team.. they've won 60+ games, they can offer the most money, etc. But when you look at their window of opportunity and talent compared with other teams in the league that might have cap room in 2010, I'm not sure the Cav's are at the top of that list.

Mo is 27, that's within 3 years of Lebrons age so that's not such a big deal. But he isn't a star player and their continually recycling supporting players many of whom are long in the tooth.

Then you look at teams like Miami and Chicago. Wade's 27 and a star player. Rose is 20 and will be a star player. Chicago's supporting cast is solid, Miami has the cap room to build a solid supporting cast. One problem is neither team has their Center or PF position locked down. But that's as much a problem for the Cav's. Yes, there's the tweener, Beasley for Miami...

Nets? Harris is 27. Lopez is a going to be a good one.. so you can make an argument for that team as well.

NY... If they can cobble a team together like Boston did then perhaps Lebron enters that discussion. But that seems like a pipedream.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-12-2009, 12:47 PM
WE WILL JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE. NOBODY KNOWS WHO WILL GO WHERE... WHEN YOU ARE RICH SOMETIMES FAME AND GLORY IS A BIG MOTIVATING FACTOR. WHAT CITY CAN OFFER FAME AND GLORY MORE THAN NEW YORK IF U WIN. DEREK JETER AND ELI etc.. are kings of the city. Imagine when we have a basketball player to throw into the bunch. New york loves winners.... And endorsements here are unlike any other city

king4day
08-12-2009, 01:14 PM
If I'm Lebron, I seriously look at the two teams who will have (or could easily get) the cap space for him next year.
Nets and Clippers.
Both have a great young core. He can and will start a dynasty with one of those if he chooses.
If I were him, I'd do everything I could to go to the Clippers. He can be the guy who turned around a poor franchise.

Raph12
08-12-2009, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron stayed with the Cav's. He's said he was happy with the team.. they've won 60+ games, they can offer the most money, etc. But when you look at their window of opportunity and talent compared with other teams in the league that might have cap room in 2010, I'm not sure the Cav's are at the top of that list.

Mo is 27, that's within 3 years of Lebrons age so that's not such a big deal. But he isn't a star player and their continually recycling supporting players many of whom are long in the tooth.

Then you look at teams like Miami and Chicago. Wade's 27 and a star player. Rose is 20 and will be a star player. Chicago's supporting cast is solid, Miami has the cap room to build a solid supporting cast. One problem is neither team has their Center or PF position locked down. But that's as much a problem for the Cav's. Yes, there's the tweener, Beasley for Miami...

Nets? Harris is 27. Lopez is a going to be a good one.. so you can make an argument for that team as well.

NY... If they can cobble a team together like Boston did then perhaps Lebron enters that discussion. But that seems like a pipedream.

Neither Wade nor Rose can play with Lebron; Wade, Rose and Lebron all play the same game except Lebron does more in other aspects (rebounding, etc...) Lebron, Wade and Rose all aren't good shooters, so offensively if Lebron carries the ball Wade/Rose will have to stand by and do nothing, seeming as how they can't hit set jumpshots and the other way around if Lebron were waiting around for a jumper. The team would not be as effective, Lebron, Wade and Rose all need star big men to win titles, not guys who play like them. Wade and Bosh would be solid and is likely for Miami next season. Nets would be great if all the players weren't so raw, it would take Lebron 3-5 years to develop them into a team to contend with the Lakers, Magic, Spurs and Celtics. I'm gonna put my neck out and say Lebron stays a Cav next season, we'll see what happens.

MSG34
08-12-2009, 01:15 PM
If I'm Lebron, I seriously look at the two teams who will have (or could easily get) the cap space for him next year.
Nets and Clippers.
Both have a great young core. He can and will start a dynasty with one of those if he chooses.
If I were him, I'd do everything I could to go to the Clippers. He can be the guy who turned around a poor franchise.

In my opinion there's no way Lebron leaves Cleveland to go to the Clippers or Nets.

Draco
08-12-2009, 01:17 PM
If I'm Lebron, I seriously look at the two teams who will have (or could easily get) the cap space for him next year.
Nets and Clippers.
Both have a great young core. He can and will start a dynasty with one of those if he chooses.
If I were him, I'd do everything I could to go to the Clippers. He can be the guy who turned around a poor franchise.

Kobe faced that decision in 2004.. when he had the chance to go to a Clipper team that had a promising PG (Livingston) and a promising PF (Brand).

king4day
08-12-2009, 01:24 PM
Kobe faced that decision in 2004.. when he had the chance to go to a Clipper team that had a promising PG (Livingston) and a promising PF (Brand).

True.
Regardless, those are the two teams that don't need to piece together a team for him. They have ones ready and just need a star to lead them.

Draco
08-12-2009, 01:27 PM
Neither Wade nor Rose can play with Lebron; Wade, Rose and Lebron all play the same game except Lebron does more in other aspects (rebounding, etc...) Lebron, Wade and Rose all aren't good shooters, so offensively if Lebron carries the ball Wade/Rose will have to stand by and do nothing, seeming as how they can't hit set jumpshots and the other way around if Lebron were waiting around for a jumper. The team would not be as effective, Lebron, Wade and Rose all need star big men to win titles, not guys who play like them. Wade and Bosh would be solid and is likely for Miami next season. Nets would be great if all the players weren't so raw, it would take Lebron 3-5 years to develop them into a team to contend with the Lakers, Magic, Spurs and Celtics. I'm gonna put my neck out and say Lebron stays a Cav next season, we'll see what happens.

Constructing a team like Kobe/Shaq, inside and outside and where neither player's role has a chance of overlaping would be the ideal but it's not a requirement for building a championship team. It's not as though Lebron and Wade or Lebron and Rose play the same position and it's not entirely unimaginable to think they could find a way to co-exist. Chicago isn't a team without shooters and Rose's jumper isn't as far off as some people think. Deng could either be traded for a SG upgrade or he could move to that position. As a SG it's not as though Deng's going to be handling the ball much with Rose and Lebron on the team. Finally, if Lebron needs a star big man to win titles he's not any better off in Cleveland.. he's better off on a team that at least has a star player at an alternative position.

Raph12
08-12-2009, 01:41 PM
Constructing a team like Kobe/Shaq, inside and outside and where neither player's role has a chance of overlaping would be the ideal but it's not the rule of thumb. It's not as though Lebron and Wade or Lebron and Rose play the same position and it's not entirely unimaginable to think they could find a way to co-exist. Chicago isn't a team without shooters and Rose's jumper isn't as far as some people think. Deng could either be traded for a SG upgrade or he could move to that position. As a SG it's not as though Deng's going to be handling the ball much with Rose and Lebron on the team. Finally, if Lebron needs a star big man to win titles he's not any better off in Cleveland.. he's better off on a team that at least has a star player at an alternative position.

I understand you really want him in chi-town, but LBJ and Rose will not co-exist effectively. A well rounded team (LA, Orl, SA, Bos) will always beat your Bulls team with or without Lebron. The front court is just as important as the backcourt, Gasol, Dwight, Duncan and Garnett would all dominate the Bulls frontcourt (maybe Thomas/Noah guards Garnett effectively but Sheed would tear up Thomas/Noah). Lebron in Chicago will sell tickets and be a fun team to watch, but that's about it.

Btw Chicago does NOT have GOOD shooter(s), Hinrich is the ONLY good shooter they have.

still a fan
08-12-2009, 01:54 PM
This should help answer the question to this thread:


Top-10 Reasons LeBron Could Choose New York
Authored by Louis Roxin - August 12, 2009 - 10:51 am

The arguments people give when predicting if LeBron James will remain in Cleveland or eventually end up elsewhere are rarely backed with substantive reasoning. Here are ten reasons why the Knicks like their chances of signing LeBron next summer.

10. Cash. Over the same five years, LeBron would earn $4.14 million less signing with the Knicks than re-signing with the Cavs as a free-agent. The Cavs can offer an extra year, but there is little reason to think the security of a 6th season will be decisive. If LeBron put much value on security, he would have sought a longer-term contract in 2006 rather than the 3-year extension he did sign. If security is what he is after, LeBron would have already signed an extension this off-season. Given the relatively small difference between the Cavs’ and Knicks’ 5-year max offers – and given the mountain of endorsement dollars that could come LeBron’s way if he lands in New York – LeBron could have a significant financial incentive to sign with the Knicks.

9. Talent. The Knicks’ roster, though young and unproven, has the 20-PPG potential of Danilo Gallinari, a two-way wing with upside like Wilson Chandler, and a scoring big in rookie Jordan Hill. All three have higher ceilings than any non-Lebron Cavs. A roster deep with quality role players but not elite talent (the most apt way to describe the Cavs minus LeBron) is only enough to give a great player what he needs to have a successful regular season. Winning in the playoffs requires finding another impact player who can help carry the load. The Knicks have the type of young players who can develop into major pieces next to a superstar and their salary cap is set up to allow the team to bid for other top free-agents in the near term.

8. Attracting free-agents. LeBron may realize that getting future free-agents to follow him onto the big stage in New York would be easier than getting them to join him in Cleveland.

7. 2011. Much is made of the fact that Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries remain on the Knick books. Yet both contracts expire just one year later, freeing up $18 million of cap room that puts the Knicks in position to offer another max contract in 2011 when New York-born Carmelo Anthony is set to hit the free-agent market.

6. Mobley. Cuttino Mobley’s contract, 80% of which is covered by insurance, gives the Knicks a valuable trade chip the team can use to remove more salary from the 2010 ledger. Consider that the payout of $7.6 million of insurance for Mobley’s contract would more than offset Jeffries’ $6.9 million salary in 2010, and the Knicks could throw in an additional $3 million in the trade. Offering a net cash gain to any team that takes Jeffries could be an attractive sell to several cash-starved owners.

5. Buyouts. If the Knicks are a few million dollars short of the cap room needed to offer a second max contract in 2010, look for Donnie Walsh to engineer a buyout of the 2010-2011 season on the contracts of Curry and/or Jeffries. Because this is the final year of these contracts, the Knicks would receive dollar-for-dollar cap relief on any buyout. For instance, offering 80% of the salary due on the last season of these two contracts would buy the Knicks more than $3.5 million of additional cap room.

4. The salary cap. Since the NBA league office announced its projections that the salary cap will decline next season, several positive economic indicators were released showing that the recession may already have ended. If true, the NBA’s salary cap might not drop nearly as much as projected if it even drops at all. But because Danny Ferry signed Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon and Leon Powe to 2-year contracts, the Cavs will not have room for a second max free-agent next summer even if the cap goes up. It might therefore be a checkmate move if Walsh ekes out enough cap room to be able to offer two max contracts in 2010. LeBron’s decision might be between staying in Cleveland with the Cavs’ roster as is or jumping to New York with Dwyane Wade or Chris Bosh.

3. The luxury tax. In New York, LeBron could be assured of joining an organization that would spare no expense in pursuit of multiple championships. Cavs’ ownership has never pulled back on spending but that could change. Dan Gilbert’s deal to bring in Chinese investment, spun as a bold marketing initiative, may have had more to do with cash reserves drying up. Once they’re out of cap room, the Knicks would never hesitate to use their mid-level exception, take on more and more salary each year and pay exorbitant luxury tax bills, to keep renewing LeBron's supporting cast. The coffers at MSG are effectively bottomless.

2. The Yankees. The Yankees have emerged as the best team in baseball and are poised for another championship run. At some point, CC Sabathia may confide to his good pal, one of the Yankees' most famous fans, ‘There’s nothing like winning in New York.’

1. The heart. Big life decisions like the one LeBron will have in less than a year are usually made more on emotion than cold reason. Is home where LeBron’s heart is or does he yearn for the spotlight of Broadway? We don’t know the answer to that yet. But last week, just before letting us know that he plans to become a free-agent after the coming season, LeBron said he is “not ashamed of anything in Cleveland.” Not exactly a ringing endorsement, especially in contrast to the reverential words LeBron used to describe how he feels stepping on the floor at Madison Square Garden. The worry for Cavs fans is that LeBron’s tone seems to be creeping closer to the 'It’s not you, it’s me' line of reasoning, an explanation vaguely reminiscent of 'The heart wants what the heart wants.'

from that other site.....]

Draco
08-12-2009, 01:58 PM
I understand you really want him in chi-town, but LBJ and Rose will not co-exist effectively. A well rounded team (LA, Orl, SA, Bos) will always beat your Bulls team with or without Lebron. The front court is just as important as the backcourt, Gasol, Dwight, Duncan and Garnett would all dominate the Bulls frontcourt (maybe Thomas/Noah guards Garnett effectively but Sheed would tear up Thomas/Noah). Lebron in Chicago will sell tickets and be a fun team to watch, but that's about it.

Btw Chicago does NOT have GOOD shooter(s), Hinrich is the ONLY good shooter they have.

Did I say that the front court wasn't as important as the back court? Did I not point out that the Cav's don't have the all important big man? I'll break it down purple-dragon-barney-style for you one more time.. Lebron has a better chance of winning on a Bulls team with Rose or a Heat team with Wade than he has on a team with Mo Williams.

You can disagree if you want but I consider Deng a good shooter. If you do not, so be it.

Draco
08-12-2009, 02:03 PM
This should help answer the question to this thread:


from that other site.....]

That's a lot of Knick propaganda to address in one post but as far as point 9 goes.. The Knicks have a team of potentially good role players. The Cav's are a proven 65 win team and the Heat and Bulls are better teams and better suitors than the Knicks. The Heat have a proven superstar to pair with James and the potential to sign a good supporting cast. The Bulls have a potential and very likely star in Rose and a proven supporting cast. The Knicks just have the potential for a good supporting cast.

chitownbulls
08-12-2009, 02:10 PM
They can only afford 1. Miami is the only team that has the cap for two (almost three if they don't exercise the option on Jones or Cook.

im pretty sure chicago can afford 2 as well.

blastmasta26
08-12-2009, 02:21 PM
If I'm Lebron, I seriously look at the two teams who will have (or could easily get) the cap space for him next year.
Nets and Clippers.
Both have a great young core. He can and will start a dynasty with one of those if he chooses.
If I were him, I'd do everything I could to go to the Clippers. He can be the guy who turned around a poor franchise.
What about the Knicks, Bulls, and Heat? All better options.

chitownbulls
08-12-2009, 02:22 PM
I understand you really want him in chi-town, but LBJ and Rose will not co-exist effectively. A well rounded team (LA, Orl, SA, Bos) will always beat your Bulls team with or without Lebron. The front court is just as important as the backcourt, Gasol, Dwight, Duncan and Garnett would all dominate the Bulls frontcourt (maybe Thomas/Noah guards Garnett effectively but Sheed would tear up Thomas/Noah). Lebron in Chicago will sell tickets and be a fun team to watch, but that's about it.

Btw Chicago does NOT have GOOD shooter(s), Hinrich is the ONLY good shooter they have.

Have you been drinking today??????

The Bulls do have good shooters

Hinrich
Salmons
Pargo
Miller
Luol Deng

good shooters...

1goldenrican1
08-12-2009, 02:26 PM
That's a lot of Knick propaganda to address in one post but as far as point 9 goes.. The Knicks have a team of potentially good role players. The Cav's are a proven 65 win team and the Heat and Bulls are better teams and better suitors than the Knicks. The Heat have a proven superstar to pair with James and the potential to sign a good supporting cast. The Bulls have a potential and very likely star in Rose and a proven supporting cast. The Knicks just have the potential for a good supporting cast.

Draco, what do you think this thread is or the articles on ESPN? You are correct that we do have good role player but 2 of them have the potenial to become better the role players. Not saying all stars but better. Yes the Cav's are a proven 65 win team. Minus Lebron there a 35 win team. Now for this upcoming season I think without lebron they could be a 40 win team b/c they are stacking up BUT, there role players are getting old and decling in stats. I do agree that the bulls and haet are better right now but I just cant see Lebron in a Bulls uniform. He wants to be the greatest ever. He cant do that playing on the team where the greatest ever played on. Miami, maybe. You say the Knicks just have a good supporting cast. Thats not true, we FINALLY have better managment, cap space in 2010 and if we cant trade curry or JJ then we still have more cap room for a max in 2011. Either way, were in good shape and could play out like this

2010: Good supporting cast, money, Curry, JJ, and 1 max FA(lebron or not)
2011: Good supporting cast, 1 max FA, draft picks.

Trouble87
08-12-2009, 02:27 PM
If I wanted to sign huge endorsement deals...I would

If I wanted to play in one of the top markets and showcase my talent... I would

If I wanted to play in front some of the most loyal NBA fans... yes I would most definitely sign with the knicks

but then I could always stay in the same tiny insignificant city that drafted me..... yay! another year obscurity and slight stardom! <--- who could say no to that?

8kobe24
08-12-2009, 02:28 PM
It all depends on the motive of the Player. The trend these days is to cash in when you are young and take a paycut later on your career to try and win a championship. Lebron has proven he can carry a team, and I don't think he would mind playing in a mediocre team IF his true motive is to move to a big market team and get rich.

JMKnick33
08-12-2009, 02:34 PM
That's a lot of Knick propaganda to address in one post but as far as point 9 goes.. The Knicks have a team of potentially good role players. The Cav's are a proven 65 win team and the Heat and Bulls are better teams and better suitors than the Knicks. The Heat have a proven superstar to pair with James and the potential to sign a good supporting cast. The Bulls have a potential and very likely star in Rose and a proven supporting cast. The Knicks just have the potential for a good supporting cast.

The writer isn't comparing the Knicks to the Bulls or Heat. He's simply writing reasons why Lebron WOULD/COULD join the Knicks.

Oh, and to answer the thread question, I'm sure plenty of NBA stars would love to. Look at what Joe Johnson did.. he bolted the Suns when they were championship contenders for a rebuilding Hawks team. He wanted the glory AND the money the Hawks offered.. which is exactly what the Knicks can offer next year. And, mark my words, the Knicks will not be last place in the Eastern Conference.

Hustla23
08-12-2009, 02:37 PM
Can we just have an all encompassing New York 2010 thread?

This is just becoming plain annoying.

29$JerZ
08-12-2009, 02:57 PM
Can we just have an all encompassing New York 2010 thread?

This is just becoming plain annoying.

I was thinking about a thread where we discuss LeBron's impact in a NY market compared to Clevelands. Instead we get Knicks suck, Utah is lucky to have a high pick from NY despite the season not even starting, LeBron isn't going to NY but Wade to Chicago makes more sense since they have Rose, Knicks will get LeBron in 2010 and another star in 2011, Cleveland can offer LeBron more money so him to NY is laughable, Knicks ain't getting no one in 2010 because they suk (spelling), etc

It's getting sad to be honest. Off Season isn't even over yet.

In regards to the main purpose of the thread, no one would sign with a weak rosyer and a last place team unless their is major talent their or they offer the most years and money. This is the worst question to ask because its an ovbious answer. Knicks need to show they are capable of winning and are just 1 star away from title contention. We aren't riding on 2010 as the year we get everybody, we have a ton of work for 2009 to do. For all you guys who says Knicks will suck in 2009 you know very little because we have done nothing but improve our roster, ended the negatives from the Isiah era and are starting to add defensive pieces to our team. This whole Utah will have a high pick or LeBron isn't leaving Cleveland is BS, a lot can happen so don't say it will.won't happen until the season plays out. Knick fans just know we have the chance to sign him and have the role players,coach and stage to make him content enough to leave his hometown. Nothing is a given so stop acting like your opinion is the final decision.

Knicks need to make the playoffs, period. A trip to the lottery doesn't aid us, we are trying to end the losing ways and we have no pick. We have Wilson,Danilo,Jordan,Tony to be our core and they are versatile. Let the damn season play out first, our team won 32 games with no go-to guys. We lost a ton of close games but were close in most of them, hard to win with no closer so don't say we are incapable of winning more games. We are only getting better, we are coming off the Isiah coaching/GM era and we turned it around in 1 season.; Yet people continue to believe we are the same bad team from those years.

If you can't have an intelligent converstaion and only base your facts/claims with your personal beliefs and lack of knowledge for the opposite team don't post about it. Cleveland cast may not be as talented/young as the Knicks but it still helped LeBron win over 60 games. Cleveland has done what it could considering they don't have CAP room to sign a big star and instead added pieces to make LeBron the only star on the team. A lot can happen so stop taking sides and just let the season play first. Knicks need to prove we can win, Cleveland needs to prove to LeBron Cleveland is the team for him.

Hustla23
08-12-2009, 03:15 PM
Jersey getting feisty, I like it :p haha

But I agree.

The Knicks have gotten better this offseason and are continuing to make roster changes to get better without compromising cap space.

I doubt we'll make playoffs this year but if we can come close and show the stars out there that we have some fight in us, then we'll be okay.

I personally think if Walsh can clear JJ and Eddy so we have the space to sign two superstars, we'll sign two superstars. It's almost like a conditional signing. If Amare/Bosh or Lebron/Wade see the possibility of uniting with another superstar to create a dynasty, they won't pass it up.

Just IMO, and once again, it's all just opinion.

I have good feelings about the future, regardless of who hates/loves us.

29$JerZ
08-12-2009, 03:19 PM
Jersey getting feisty, I like it :p haha

But I agree.

The Knicks have gotten better this offseason and are continuing to make roster changes to get better without compromising cap space.

I doubt we'll make playoffs this year but if we can come close and show the stars out there that we have some fight in us, then we'll be okay.

I personally think if Walsh can clear JJ and Eddy so we have the space to sign two superstars, we'll sign two superstars. It's almost like a conditional signing. If Amare/Bosh or Lebron/Wade see the possibility of uniting with another superstar to create a dynasty, they won't pass it up.

Just IMO, and once again, it's all just opinion.

I have good feelings about the future, regardless of who hates/loves us.

I'm not fiesty, just telling the truth :p

Every Knick thread I see in the NBA forum is completely negative and when Knick fans defend our team we are shunned and called wrong. I guess the opinions of the other 29 team > ours:rolleyes:

To me it seems the arguing is more about NY finally being able to sign someone rather than who NY will get.

still a fan
08-12-2009, 03:21 PM
That's a lot of Knick propaganda to address in one post but as far as point 9 goes.. The Knicks have a team of potentially good role players. The Cav's are a proven 65 win team and the Heat and Bulls are better teams and better suitors than the Knicks. The Heat have a proven superstar to pair with James and the potential to sign a good supporting cast. The Bulls have a potential and very likely star in Rose and a proven supporting cast. The Knicks just have the potential for a good supporting cast.

Draco you post with opinion and not facts whick is okay..but propaganda? you need to research that site and tell me how many times the Knicks are trashed? Thats why I took advantage and posted it, because where it came from, an unfriendly as far as the Knick world is concerned..

We can go back and forth all day on who's coming who won't and its all hype right now..but the bottom line is the Knicks have for the first time in years cap space...

you have to be in it to win it....that goes in the lottery as well as the FA game..


But just food for thought because I've seen it before and been part of it first hand.....a superstar with an ego the size of MSG what would he prefer to go win a championship and share the credit with another superstar or go to a team with a nice young surrounding cast and win a championship?

Think about ego's and what winning on a NY team that hasn't seen the playoffs since 2004, he would truly be King...if you don't live in NY you have no idea what I'm talking about...

Draco
08-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Draco you post with opinion and not facts whick is okay..but propaganda?

My opinion in the post you're responding to is based on fact. The Cav's are a proven 65 win team. The Knicks are a proven 32 win team. The Bulls are a proven 41 win team. (granted, BG7 is gone.. but consider that Deng is 100% healthy for next season and hopefully so is Hinrich). Deng, Hinrich and Rose have been in and performed well in the playoffs. No one on the Knicks have come close to sniffing the playoffs (as a Knick) in the last (however many) years. So what could be said about that? How about this. The Bulls and Cav's have better role players than the Knicks. Anything and everything that can be said about the Knicks in a positive light has to do with the word, potential.
Just about everything that can be said about the Knicks in a negative light has to do with what they've proven.



you need to research that site and tell me how many times the Knicks are trashed? Thats why I took advantage and posted it, because where it came from, an unfriendly as far as the Knick world is concerned..

We can go back and forth all day on who's coming who won't and its all hype right now..but the bottom line is the Knicks have for the first time in years cap space...

you have to be in it to win it....that goes in the lottery as well as the FA game..


But just food for thought because I've seen it before and been part of it first hand.....a superstar with an ego the size of MSG what would he prefer to go win a championship and share the credit with another superstar or go to a team with a nice young surrounding cast and win a championship?

Think about ego's and what winning on a NY team that hasn't seen the playoffs since 2004, he would truly be King...if you don't live in NY you have no idea what I'm talking about...

Come on, that's a very silly argument to suggest that Lebron should leave the Cav's because MSG can accomodate his giant sized ego. If Lebron's leaving the Cav's it makes more sense for him to go to a team with either a dominant big or a star at some other position. He can't win a ring by himself.

madiaz3
08-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Wilson Chandler is barely getting the respect he deserves.
Gallinari will prove himself at 100% health this season, guaranteed.
Jordan Hill and Toney Douglas have plenty of potential.
Eddy Curry has lost 40 pounds this offseason, whether he plays or garners enough trade value for a significant piece.

Enough of the Raptor fan Knicks bashing threads because they get angry at the thought of Bosh leaving their supposedly new contending team.

Draco
08-12-2009, 04:32 PM
The writer isn't comparing the Knicks to the Bulls or Heat. He's simply writing reasons why Lebron WOULD/COULD join the Knicks..

I know and one of the problems with that article is that the Knicks aren't the only suitors who could go after Lebron.

madiaz3
08-12-2009, 04:34 PM
Come on, that's a very silly argument to suggest that Lebron should leave the Cav's because MSG can accomodate his giant sized ego. If Lebron's leaving the Cav's it makes more sense for him to go to a team with either a dominant big or a star at some other position. He can't win a ring by himself.

Not at all. You're kidding if you think Lebron wants to win his first titles next to DWade if he has a chance to win them on his own. Wade is still good enough for people to consider him the main man whether you like to believe that or not, especially if its Lebron going to Miami.

Draco
08-12-2009, 04:45 PM
Not at all. You're kidding if you think Lebron wants to win his first titles next to DWade if he has a chance to win them on his own. Wade is still good enough for people to consider him the main man whether you like to believe that or not, especially if its Lebron going to Miami.

He doesn't have a chance to win them on this own. Reference; Cav's vs. Spurs... Cav's vs. Orlando.

madiaz3
08-12-2009, 04:53 PM
He doesn't have a chance to win them on this own. Reference; Cav's vs. Spurs... Cav's vs. Orlando.

All he would need from another team legitimate second option that didn't take two injuries and some crying to get into the all-star game. Not a player as good as Wade.

Draco
08-12-2009, 04:58 PM
All he would need from another team legitimate second option that didn't take two injuries and some crying to get into the all-star game. Not a player as good as Wade.

But a player as good as Chandler, or Gallo? :rolleyes:

madiaz3
08-12-2009, 05:13 PM
But a player as good as Chandler, or Gallo? :rolleyes:

If they pan out, then yes. You're being completely close-minded if you don't think there's a chance for them to develop into something special one season from now. I know you like to criticize the fact that NY bases it's hopes on the potential of these players, but we're really not...
considering by the time 2010 rolls around we'll already know how good they are and how good they can be. Free Agents aren't deciding today and gambling on potential. They're choosing next year off of what they see then. I thought that was pretty apparent.

Draco
08-12-2009, 05:38 PM
If they pan out, then yes. You're being completely close-minded if you don't think there's a chance for them to develop into something special one season from now. I know you like to criticize the fact that NY bases it's hopes on the potential of these players, but we're really not...
considering by the time 2010 rolls around we'll already know how good they are and how good they can be. Free Agents aren't deciding today and gambling on potential. They're choosing next year off of what they see then. I thought that was pretty apparent.

I didn't buy into the premise a team with solid role players and no stars is more attractive than a team solid role players and a star (or a potential star). If NY can continue to develop Chandler, if Gallo can begin to establish himself as a good player, and if NY can sign a 2nd tier 2010 FA then I think NY is on it's way to building a solid foundation that could be attractive to top tier FA's in future years. Having a 2010 pick would have helped tremendously since I think they're likely to be in the lottery again next year. I think NY will learn to walk before it runs.. and I think there isn't good chance that they can cobble together a team like Boston.

PlezPlayDKnicks
08-12-2009, 06:03 PM
I think Draco needs to worry about the bulls. The impact of losing BG is gonna clog up those lanes for Derrick Rose. Loul deng has yet to reach the potential every1 was expecting. If chicago had to do it all over again they prob woulda paid bg more instead of signing deng to that terrible deal. He's in the same category as Chandler right now. Then are the bulls gonna resign Salmons, and what are u gonna do with Tyrus Thomas?

Draco
08-12-2009, 06:05 PM
I think Draco needs to worry about the bulls. The impact of losing BG is gonna clog up those lanes for Derrick Rose. Loul deng has yet to reach the potential every1 was expecting. If chicago had to do it all over again they prob woulda paid bg more instead of signing deng to that terrible deal. He's in the same category as Chandler right now. Then are the bulls gonna resign Salmons, and what are u gonna do with Tyrus Thomas?

Every club makes mistakes and has to face tough decisions. I think Portland would have rather drafted Durant than Oden. I still believe the Knicks are low on the totem pole of suitors for a top tier FA.

29$JerZ
08-12-2009, 06:09 PM
Every club makes mistakes and has to face tough decisions. I think Portland would have rather drafted Durant than Oden. I still believe the Knicks are low on the totem pole of suitors for a top tier FA.

And that's your opinion but not the reality, we have the market,role players and coach to get a top tier player.

Draco
08-12-2009, 06:13 PM
And that's your opinion but not the reality, we have the market,role players and coach to get a top tier player.

Right, well .. we can go in circles with this but Miami and Chicago have beaten the Knicks in regular season standings and to the playoffs last season and in much of the last 5 years. As it stands now, Chicago is a young team in a big market, with good role players and a budding star.. if you don't think that places them higher than the Knicks on the totem pole then you've got yourself one biased and sadly mistaken opinion.

Pensx3
08-12-2009, 06:16 PM
I love how everyone endorses NY because Lebron can be more marketable there. He is probably the most marketable athlete in the US, how much more money can he possibly make in NY? He already has the near $100 million deal with Nike, plus his salary. He should play for someone who has a change at winning. He would be better off playing in Miami...New York hasnt been able to buy a championship for years...Cleveland isnt the best place either, the city sucks, and their big acquisition is Shaq, clearly wont win this year...He will go to Miami if he has any sense

29$JerZ
08-12-2009, 06:19 PM
Right, well .. we can go in circles with this but Miami and Chicago have beaten the Knicks in regular season standings and to the playoffs last season and in much of the last 5 years. As it stands now, Chicago is a young team in a big market, with good role players and a budding star.. if you don't think that places them higher than the Knicks on the totem pole then you've got yourself one biased and sadly mistaken opinion.

I'm not being biased, NY has the coach,market,role players to attract a top tier talent. I wasn't even referring to Chicago, I was quoting from your statement on NY being a low team to get a top talent.

Chicago can get a top tier talent but the CAP is against you, as it is to every team. You would have to renounce the rights of Thomas to sign a MAx player but that's the only thing in your way. If Bosh/Boozer/Amar'e were to want to play in Chicago I could see no problem in letting Tyrus go.

Both teams can sign a top tier talent. NY has the CAP for more than just 1 player, a big stage and our coach. Chicago has a top PG, a solid Center and good swing players in Deng,Salmons. Does it really matter who has a batter chance if both can/will sign a top talent? We have more Cap, you have a Pg to build around. Seems fair no?

Draco
08-12-2009, 06:34 PM
I'm not being biased, NY has the coach,market,role players to attract a top tier talent. I wasn't even referring to Chicago, I was quoting from your statement on NY being a low team to get a top talent.

For sake of argument I'm giving NY the benefit of the doubt that they already have role players. I'm more or less sold on Chandler but Gallo and Jordan haven't proven anything. But for the sake of argument, they might have the role players but they still don't have a star that could help attract a FA.



Chicago can get a top tier talent but the CAP is against you, as it is to every team. You would have to renounce the rights of Thomas to sign a MAx player but that's the only thing in your way. If Bosh/Boozer/Amar'e were to want to play in Chicago I could see no problem in letting Tyrus go.

I'm not a fan of Boozer or Amare but I agree that letting TT go in favor of signing a top tier FA is not a problem.



Both teams can sign a top tier talent. NY has the CAP for more than just 1 player, a big stage and our coach. Chicago has a top PG, a solid Center and good swing players in Deng,Salmons. Does it really matter who has a batter chance if both can/will sign a top talent? We have more Cap, you have a Pg to build around. Seems fair no?

Do they have room for more than 1? I thought it was just 1.. assuming a cap of around $50 mil or $53mil

It doesn't matter unless we're competing for the same FA :D

boriquaabe
08-12-2009, 06:42 PM
Let me get this straight... u were a kinck fan and now your a raptors fan and the knicks are your "2nd team"... dude get real... real fans only root for 1 team... and the knicks aren't the worst team in the NBA. And it doesn't matter what anybody on this forum says about whether or not they would sign with the knicks because ahhhh wait for it! your not in the NBA... Look, for you Knick haters just face it Lebron or no Lebron the knicks are going to keep getting better and after next year whichever of the FA sign with NY... LEbron,Wade,AMARE,Nowitzki or MElo the year after the KNICK organization is BACK in a BIG way!!! D'antoni is a great coach, WIlson chandler is a proven commodity and Gallinari has tremendous Potential...So Have fun BASHING... FOR NOW

boriquaabe
08-12-2009, 06:50 PM
For sake of argument I'm giving NY the benefit of the doubt that they already have role players. I'm more or less sold on Chandler but Gallo and Jordan haven't proven anything. But for the sake of argument, they might have the role players but they still don't have a star that could help attract a FA.



I'm not a fan of Boozer or Amare but I agree that letting TT go in favor of signing a top tier FA is not a problem. Ben gordon's shooting was off the charts in that series... I would take Chandler over Deng and D.LEe over hmmm who was your 4 last year It slips my memory////



Do they have room for more than 1? I thought it was just 1.. assuming a cap of around $50 mil or $53mil

It doesn't matter unless we're competing for the same FA :D

Ok...bull fan an update... Ben gordan Plays for the pistons... He was essentially the only reason well and the fact that Garnett was Hurt that the bulls gave the celtics a run for their money last year... I honestly can't see them making the playoffs next year...

Halladay
08-12-2009, 06:51 PM
We really aren't bad, we will be the sleepers next year and prove all of you wrong. We don't need Lebron and we have a better team if you take away Lebron. We have great young talent and their is no reason why someone wouldn't want to sign with us. We are the greatest basketball city in the world.

Aren't bad? The Knicks have stunk for years. You don't need Lebron? Is that a joke. EVERY team could use the best player on the planet. That's just insane to say you don't need him. You probably won't get him anyway.

Halladay
08-12-2009, 06:55 PM
And that's your opinion but not the reality, we have the market,role players and coach to get a top tier player.

That's just not true. My hockey team, The Leafs, are known as the largest market, having the role players, coach etc but it doesn't seem to attract big name players. It's all about money and the Knicks aren't the only team in the league with money to spend next off-season. Odds are you sign Amare' because of his relationship with D'antoni.

boriquaabe
08-12-2009, 06:56 PM
For sake of argument I'm giving NY the benefit of the doubt that they already have role players. I'm more or less sold on Chandler but Gallo and Jordan haven't proven anything. But for the sake of argument, they might have the role players but they still don't have a star that could help attract a FA.



I'm not a fan of Boozer or Amare but I agree that letting TT go in favor of signing a top tier FA is not a problem.



Do they have room for more than 1? I thought it was just 1.. assuming a cap of around $50 mil or $53mil

It doesn't matter unless we're competing for the same FA :D

Ok...bull fan an update... Ben gordan Plays for the pistons... He was essentially the only reason well and the fact that Garnett was Hurt that the bulls gave the celtics a run for their money last year... I honestly can't see them making the playoffs next year... Ben Gordon's hot shooting made that series close... But honestly I would take Chandler over DEng and DLee over any of your Big's

Draco
08-12-2009, 06:59 PM
Ok...bull fan an update... Ben gordan Plays for the pistons... He was essentially the only reason well and the fact that Garnett was Hurt that the bulls gave the celtics a run for their money last year... I honestly can't see them making the playoffs next year...

Deng was also hurt and not in that playoff series. The fact remains that Deng has playoff experience and was a part of Bulls teams that have consistently been better than the Knicks over the years.. even in the Bulls 33 win season, the Knicks were still worse.. I can say the same thing about Kirk Hinrich who was injured for much of last season and had a limited role for the year as a result. At any rate.. none of this really needs to be explained. If I'm a FA, I'm veering towards the Bulls and away from the Knicks if only because the Bulls have Rose.

Draco
08-12-2009, 07:08 PM
But honestly I would take Chandler over DEng and DLee over any of your Big's

Great .. I'll take the Bulls regular season record and playoff appearance over over the Knicks regular season record and "gone fishing" sign.

bigsams50
08-12-2009, 07:26 PM
Great .. I'll take the Bulls regular season record and playoff appearance over over the Knicks regular season record and "gone fishing" sign.

hahahaha, knicks fans just need to pray

Trouble87
08-12-2009, 07:31 PM
Great .. I'll take the Bulls regular season record and playoff appearance over over the Knicks regular season record and "gone fishing" sign.

for someone who seems to dislike the knicks so much you sure do find yourself debating about them a lot...

constantly talking about a team you don't like.... hater at it's finest

Draco
08-12-2009, 07:35 PM
for someone who seems to dislike the knicks so much you sure do find yourself debating about them a lot...

constantly talking about a team you don't like.... hater at it's finest

The Knicks and Bulls might be competitors for FAs this summer.. this has nothing to do with hating the Knicks. So to answer the thread question.. would I sign with the Knicks? No, there are better teams to sign on with. Particularly the Bulls.

For someone who doesn't seem to like my posts yousure do find yourself responding to them a lot.. I guess that makes you a hater. :p

mikantsass
08-12-2009, 07:41 PM
Good coach, good system, GREAT city, lots of attention, and $$$$$$$$$$. I'd say its an attractive spot for UFA's

joe j.09
08-12-2009, 07:52 PM
If lebron leaves cleveland hes going to NY bottom line...

Trouble87
08-12-2009, 07:57 PM
The Knicks and Bulls might be competitors for FAs this summer.. this has nothing to do with hating the Knicks. So to answer the thread question.. would I sign with the Knicks? No, there are better teams to sign on with. Particularly the Bulls.

For someone who doesn't seem to like my posts yousure do find yourself responding to them a lot.. I guess that makes you a hater. :p

point taken sir :sigh:

29$JerZ
08-12-2009, 08:28 PM
That's just not true. My hockey team, The Leafs, are known as the largest market, having the role players, coach etc but it doesn't seem to attract big name players. It's all about money and the Knicks aren't the only team in the league with money to spend next off-season. Odds are you sign Amare' because of his relationship with D'antoni.

First of all those are two different sports :)

When your a big market you normally don't have CAP to spend on big name players. I assume your Leaf's have a bunch of high quality players and not much CAP. Knicks actually have CAP for 1 MAX contract and with another move can have 2 if need be.

I agree that Amar'e followed by Joe Johnson are the only 2 "sure" signings in the Knicks future but a lot of factors play in. If money was all that mattered he would want to stay in Cleveland, and have signed an extension by now. We are a big market team who finallly have CAP room, that's why there is a lot of excitement in NY. NOt just for LeBron but for the possibility of having a star since the Pat/Houston/Larry/Oakley/etc days.

Hustla23
08-12-2009, 08:32 PM
If I'm Lebron, I want to play in New York because Nike will pay me way more than the difference in the max contract that the Cavs can offer and what New York can offer.

Plus, the MSG is the Mecca ;)

And

New York smells nice.

Draco
08-12-2009, 08:48 PM
If I'm Lebron, I want to play in New York because Nike will pay me way more than the difference in the max contract that the Cavs can offer and what New York can offer.

Plus, the MSG is the Mecca ;)

And

New York smells nice.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/27925375

TO Rapz
08-12-2009, 09:06 PM
it depends on what kind of player u r...if ur a superstar tht needs the ball in your hands come and play with the knicks cuz u have the ball in yur hands all day..if you are a role player screw it they have enough bad players....if im LBJ i would come here as long as i have somewhat of a supporting cast..LBJ=50win Knick team

AK23
08-12-2009, 09:15 PM
no.

me neither :badidea:

Hustla23
08-12-2009, 09:24 PM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/27925375
A writer's statement that it doesn't exist is not proof enough.

Unless the contract is put out in writing in public on the internet, nobody will know :p

KnicksR4Real
08-12-2009, 09:49 PM
This is probably one of the dumbest posts i've ever seen....

Yes, You ARE really that bad...
You will not be sleepers, you will finish right about the same spot next year...
If you want to win, you DO need Lebron or someother big name superstar...You're team right now is BAD!

not what i meant

I think that if you compare our teams and take away Lebron we are better.

We are one star away from being a contender.

Hill chandler and gallo are promising players and if we get sessions look at our lineup

Sessions
Chandler
Lebron or any other star
Gallo
Hill

Thats pretty good

but sorry for saying that stuff b4

KnicksR4Real
08-12-2009, 09:51 PM
Great .. I'll take the Bulls regular season record and playoff appearance over over the Knicks regular season record and "gone fishing" sign.

you owned him but he does have a point

Draco
08-12-2009, 10:16 PM
you owned him but he does have a point

I don't think it's a clear cut case of which players are better.. Deng had a better PER in his first two years in the league compared with Chandler. I'd rather have Noah for his defense and value of his contract than Lee who's looking for a big payday. Which leads into the Q. are the Knicks going to pay him?

still a fan
08-12-2009, 10:27 PM
I don't think it's a clear cut case of which players are better.. Deng had a better PER in his first two years in the league compared with Chandler. I'd rather have Noah for his defense and value of his contract than Lee who's looking for a big payday. Which leads into the Q. are the Knicks going to pay him?

yea when he wakes up and signs the one yr deal donnie is offering that is 4.4MIL higher than the QO :)

rapstakeall
08-12-2009, 11:46 PM
what major pick up or addition have the knicks added this year..............wtf

tland22
08-13-2009, 12:20 AM
HELL NO i wouldnt sign with New York... I have been there numerous times and the people are MISERABLE there...they are just rude, and terrible. Not to mention the team, the owners...they stink. They dont know what they are doing, it seems to me. They have pipe dreams.

madiaz3
08-13-2009, 12:59 AM
HELL NO i wouldnt sign with New York... I have been there numerous times and the people are MISERABLE there...they are just rude, and terrible. Not to mention the team, the owners...they stink. They dont know what they are doing, it seems to me. They have pipe dreams.

For your first point, well I have no idea what you are talking about unless you were just an annoying tourist when you visited.

As for the second point, it seems you're stuck two years in the past...

MSG34
08-13-2009, 09:00 AM
Although the offseason is still going talent wise the Bulls are better right now. But right now the salary cap is the X factor, if we can land a 2nd option we become the better option.

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 09:36 AM
HELL NO i wouldnt sign with New York... I have been there numerous times and the people are MISERABLE there...they are just rude, and terrible. Not to mention the team, the owners...they stink. They dont know what they are doing, it seems to me. They have pipe dreams.

OK. I agree the Knicks franchise is screwing their fans and I even agree Donnie Walsh is highly over-rated as a general manager. I agree one has to be a New Yorker to understand the New York State Of Mind. What I refuse to agree with is the sweeping generalization that all New Yorkers are miserable people. I am a New Yorker, and I am far from miserable. :)

still a fan
08-13-2009, 10:16 AM
HELL NO i wouldnt sign with New York... I have been there numerous times and the people are MISERABLE there...they are just rude, and terrible. Not to mention the team, the owners...they stink. They dont know what they are doing, it seems to me. They have pipe dreams.

LOL what part of NY did you go too? Sure wasn't Manhattan, because you'll only run into more tourists LOL, those are probably the miserable people your talking about they are probably lost and confused...:D

I'm a NY'er my entire life and travel for business, there is no place in the world like ny and anyone I do business with finds any excuse to travel here..

While the franchise has gone in the wrong direction or better yet stayed status quo, if you haven't noticed things have changed tremendously, and all for the better...

the team is young, athletic, and hungry...the coach hates to lose and most players love to play in the Garden...

These are all facts....

Let me know your next trip here, I'll show you all the hot spots...you'll never go home;)

KnicksR4Real
08-13-2009, 10:31 AM
HELL NO i wouldnt sign with New York... I have been there numerous times and the people are MISERABLE there...they are just rude, and terrible. Not to mention the team, the owners...they stink. They dont know what they are doing, it seems to me. They have pipe dreams.

wtf

KnicksR4Real
08-13-2009, 10:33 AM
what major pick up or addition have the knicks added this year..............wtf

Jordan Hill and soon to be Ramon Sessions

WoW Marco Bellenilli and Demar Derozan are good too;)

Derozan can't do anything but dunk and why do you think Bellenelli never played at all with golden state?

KnicksR4Real
08-13-2009, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=DCSportsIsPain;10525526]OK. I agree the Knicks franchise is screwing their fans and I even agree Donnie Walsh is highly over-rated as a general manager. I agree one has to be a New Yorker to understand the New York State Of Mind. What I refuse to agree with is the sweeping generalization that all New Yorkers are miserable people. I am a New Yorker, and I am far from miserable.

I disagree with everything except the last two.

Also I be from CT and I understand everything perfectly

29$JerZ
08-13-2009, 10:47 AM
How is Donnie Walsh overrated? He isn't being praised as a Top 2 GM :confused: He is one of the more respected GM's of the league and has earned it.

Why is it a problem that he is making a 2010 our priority? What were we suppose to do? Keep Zach and Jamal until 2011 and just be a mediocre team trying to make the 8th spot in the playoffs only? We are turning this ship around fast, if you don't like it then fine but don't say he is dragging us down even more.

MSG34
08-13-2009, 10:51 AM
Why is it a problem that he is making a 2010 our priority? What were we suppose to do? Keep Zach and Jamal until 2011 and just be a mediocre team trying to make the 8th spot in the playoffs only? We are turning this ship around fast, if you don't like it then fine but don't say he is dragging us down even more.

Exactly but what people fail to realize is that it's not 2010 or bust for the knicks. We're not dependent upon Lebron being our savior. Sure it'd be nice but it's not likely. We'll have plenty of options past Lebron and past 2010 but it is our priority and rightfully so.

29$JerZ
08-13-2009, 10:55 AM
Exactly but what people fail to realize is that it's not 2010 or bust for the knicks. We're not dependent upon Lebron being our savior. Sure it'd be nice but it's not likely. We'll have plenty of options past Lebron and past 2010 but it is our priority and rightfully so.

2010 is just the Knicks best shot to return to form, haven't had a star in years. I'll gladly leave with Amar'e,Joe Johnson,LeBron,etc Point is we are in a position to sign one of them. Why is that such a big deal to the rest of the NBA fans though? :confused: Some say we shouldn't put all our eggs into 2010 but what the hell should we do then? Develop talent in a losing culture until 2011? Hell no.

MSG34
08-13-2009, 11:13 AM
2010 is just the Knicks best shot to return to form, haven't had a star in years. I'll gladly leave with Amar'e,Joe Johnson,LeBron,etc Point is we are in a position to sign one of them. Why is that such a big deal to the rest of the NBA fans though? :confused: Some say we shouldn't put all our eggs into 2010 but what the hell should we do then? Develop talent in a losing culture until 2011? Hell no.

Imagine adding Joe Johnson or Amare and having an extra year with Wilson and Danilo getting time. Jeffries and Curry would expire if they weren't dealt yet we'd have another 17 million to play with. We could then go for Carmelo. Doesn't sound like a bad backup plan to me. There are possibilities past 2010.

In NY being far enough under the cap gives us endless possibilities.

tbo41fan
08-13-2009, 11:14 AM
not what i meant

I think that if you compare our teams and take away Lebron we are better.

We are one star away from being a contender.

Hill chandler and gallo are promising players and if we get sessions look at our lineup

Sessions
Chandler
Lebron or any other star
Gallo
Hill

Thats pretty good

but sorry for saying that stuff b4

Ya man, somebody explained to me what you meant...my bad i went off like that, I was at work and stressed out and stuff...sorry

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 11:14 AM
2010 is just the Knicks best shot to return to form, haven't had a star in years. I'll gladly leave with Amar'e,Joe Johnson,LeBron,etc Point is we are in a position to sign one of them. Why is that such a big deal to the rest of the NBA fans though? :confused: Some say we shouldn't put all our eggs into 2010 but what the hell should we do then? Develop talent in a losing culture until 2011? Hell no.

Donnie Walsh put the Knicks in a position where they have to eat an entire season and hope someone wants to play for them in 2010. Walsh makes the personnel decisions, period, and it's time to stop blaming coaches. Why is he being given a free pass? Nobody can explain this. Nobody can explain why it's OK for a team to throw away an entire season. I'm almost positive it's against the franchise ownership agreement to not even attempt to compete. I'm looking for an NBA ownership agreement for confirmation.

The best shot is to sandbag an entire season BECAUSE one bad decision after another was made by Donnie Walsh. Giving him a free pass is ********.

tbo41fan
08-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Ok... this is my opinion...im a Bulls fan btw

The Knicks fans are right, they will have the money, the coach, and the aura of New York City to land FA's. If Lebron decides to leave Cleveland, New York will be one of his top choices, however I dont see him going there...

New Jersey and Miami are his top choices IMO, but New York may be 2-3 years away from contending and I think Lebron wants to win Now...

Now, I do see NY landing 1-2 big name guys, possibly Amare+ another

Although there are alot of people bashing the Knicks on here, they will be one of the top destinations for FA's whether you like it or not. lol The money, the coach, and the city are all factors that can AND WILL persuade big FA's to go there...I think the bashing should stop because if your team was in this situation you would be doing the same thing...

tland22
08-13-2009, 11:38 AM
^^^i dont see NY landing any big name guys. Plenty of teams will have money next off season.... and these players want to WIN. Therefore, they are not coming to new York, or brooklyn to do it...no matter how great the city is. They are all multi millionaires (the players are) and so they can take a vacation anytime they want even purchase a house in NYC for the offseason... they arent going to go there for the big market and the city.

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 11:40 AM
How is New Jersey ready to win now any more than New York?

tbo41fan
08-13-2009, 11:40 AM
^^ New York just has too much money to not sign anyone though.....

tbo41fan
08-13-2009, 11:41 AM
How is New Jersey ready to win now any more than New York?

Harris/Lopez > Sessions/Hill

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 11:53 AM
It doesn't look like Sessions is going to be a Knick which I think is for the best and Hill's ceiling can't be determined until he actually starts playing. Gallinari has the potential to be a great player and Chandler already is an athletic wing that plays great defense.

tbo41fan
08-13-2009, 12:02 PM
It doesn't look like Sessions is going to be a Knick which I think is for the best and Hill's ceiling can't be determined until he actually starts playing. Gallinari has the potential to be a great player and Chandler already is an athletic wing that plays great defense.

Ok fair enough...you make good points, I just dont see Lebron in New York next season...just my opinion

madiaz3
08-13-2009, 12:10 PM
Harris/Lopez > Sessions/Hill

What?
Since you like to use random players in your comparisons, (Nets two best players vs. player not on the knicks and a rookie.)

How about Eddy Curry 40 pounds lighter is already better than Brook Lopez.
Gallinari at 70% health already is better than Yi. Chandler currently is better than Brook but not quite Harris yet, although no one doubts he can be as important. The room for improvement on Lopez (who honestly is good but isn't going to get any better) and Harris (already as good as can be) is not nearly the same of the Knicks' Chandler and Gallo, who at the worst can improve minorly or at best take the next leap of talent after next season.

Once again, no idea why these threads are being made and people are thinking FAs will make their decisions off this past season and somehow have to choose one year ahead of time. They'll know after this coming season whether they want to, no sooner or later.

tbo41fan
08-13-2009, 12:17 PM
what?
Since you like to use random players in your comparisons, (nets two best players vs. Player not on the knicks and a rookie.)

how about eddy curry 40 pounds lighter is already better than brook lopez.
Gallinari at 70% health already is better than yi. Chandler currently is better than brook but not quite harris yet, although no one doubts he can be as important. The room for improvement on lopez (who honestly is good but isn't going to get any better) and harris (already as good as can be) is not nearly the same of the knicks' chandler and gallo, who at the worst can improve minorly or at best take the next leap of talent after next season.

Once again, no idea why these threads are being made and people are thinking fas will make their decisions off this past season and somehow have to choose one year ahead of time. They'll know after this coming season whether they want to, no sooner or later.

no

29$JerZ
08-13-2009, 12:20 PM
Donnie Walsh put the Knicks in a position where they have to eat an entire season and hope someone wants to play for them in 2010. Walsh makes the personnel decisions, period, and it's time to stop blaming coaches. Why is he being given a free pass? Nobody can explain this. Nobody can explain why it's OK for a team to throw away an entire season. I'm almost positive it's against the franchise ownership agreement to not even attempt to compete. I'm looking for an NBA ownership agreement for confirmation.

The best shot is to sandbag an entire season BECAUSE one bad decision after another was made by Donnie Walsh. Giving him a free pass is ********.

He came into a situation where Isiah's "Plan to Win" Failed miserably. A Roster of Zach,Jamal,Stephon,Quentin was not going to get us into the playoffs. We are rebuilding, when you rebuild you sacrifice to better yourself for the future. We got rid of all of Isiah;s trash, Jared and Eddy remain however. Our rebuilding mainly focused on this past season, the 2009 season however is where everything turns around.

Also we aren't tanking in 2009 nor were we last season, playoffs were on our mind throughout. That's why we didn't trade Nate with Jared when Nate was a top 5 scorer after the all-star break. That's why we didn't play D-League guys until the last 4 games when we were mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

All Donnie did was make the roster better. If you didn't know we were playing without our starting Center Eddy Curry, our lottery pick (6th overall) Danilo Gallinari for the majority of the season. Same as how the Kings,Clippers went through a ton of injuries we all ended up in the lottery.

We are not sandbagging or whatever you mean. There is nothing wrong with getting rid of contracts from guys who are WAY OVEWRPAID like Zach and Jamal and giving those minutes for our core in David Lee,Wilson Chandler,Danilo Gallinari. My point is we have done nothing wrong and have turned around a decade of failure in 1 season and are looking to be back in form next year. Playoffs are always on our mind.

Missing56&33
08-13-2009, 12:29 PM
You make a good point about the roster being weak right now, but every team and every GM in the league knows that the knicks new offense and style of play has made them a much more competitive team. We played teams tough all year long but obvioulsy we are missing some pieces and some interior defense. The style of play, the coach , Gm and the fact that its NYC makes the Knicks an attractive Club to sign with.

Yes our roster is young but they are talented, If a FA decide to sign with the Knicks all we really need to address is the interior defensive position. Just about everybody on the current roster can shoot the three at a high % and thats what we do...live and die by the three. I think a lot of FA would welcome a wide open style of play like ours and to play for a coach like Mike D'antoni. Even though our record was at the bottom of the league last year we made a 9 game improvement and became more competitive and I expect us to be even better this year. I like our chances at landing Lebron, Joe Johnson, Amare and even Bosh.

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 12:31 PM
He came into a situation where Isiah's "Plan to Win" Failed miserably. A Roster of Zach,Jamal,Stephon,Quentin was not going to get us into the playoffs. We are rebuilding, when you rebuild you sacrifice to better yourself for the future. We got rid of all of Isiah;s trash, Jared and Eddy remain however. Our rebuilding mainly focused on this past season, the 2009 season however is where everything turns around.

OK. I'll completely ignore everything before Donnie Walsh was hired April 2nd, 2008. In fact, I'll even ignore last season and this season. What I can't ignore is that in his 23 years as general manager of the Pacers, Indiana always had great regular season records and did nothing in the playoffs.
I somehow doubt player agents ignore that, and if I am a player agent, I am not rushing to have my superstars sign with the Knicks, knowing that Donnie Walsh has a 23 year track record of not doing anything in the playoffs. But that's just me.

29$JerZ
08-13-2009, 12:38 PM
OK. I'll completely ignore everything before Donnie Walsh was hired April 2nd, 2008. In fact, I'll even ignore last season and this season. What I can't ignore is that in his 23 years as general manager of the Pacers, Indiana always had great regular season records and did nothing in the playoffs.
I somehow doubt player agents ignore that, and if I am a player agent, I am not rushing to have my superstars sign with the Knicks, knowing that Donnie Walsh has a 23 year track record of not doing anything in the playoffs. But that's just me.

Last I checked it's the coach and players who determine the wins/losses on the court. Donnie's Indiana squad made the playoffs I think all but once during his tenure in Indiana. According to that logic FA's should avoid going to Cleveland because they only made the Finals once this decade and were swept. Or should avoid Miami for the same reason. Or Phoenix because they never have things go their way.

A lot of factors play out, don't judge someone's credibility based on their championship record. I guess all should avoid Utah since Jerry Sloan is a failure of a coach for not getting a Championship ring since being the coach of the Utah for all these years:rolleyes:

madiaz3
08-13-2009, 12:45 PM
no

thats just denial right there. i dont think you remember just how good he was when he wasn't a fatass. just a matter of how close to not a fatass he returns to the nba.

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 12:46 PM
Last I checked it's the coach and players who determine the wins/losses on the court. Donnie's Indiana squad made the playoffs I think all but once during his tenure in Indiana. According to that logic FA's should avoid going to Cleveland because they only made the Finals once this decade and were swept. Or should avoid Miami for the same reason. Or Phoenix because they never have things go their way.

A lot of factors play out, don't judge someone's credibility based on their championship record. I guess all should avoid Utah since Jerry Sloan is a failure of a coach for not getting a Championship ring since being the coach of the Utah for all these years:rolleyes:

And last I checked, it's the general manager who has the authority to change the coaches and the players if the results are less than satisfactory. So, should we believe Walsh thought just getting to the playoffs was satisfactory and did nothing? Or should we believe that Walsh made changes and got the same results for 23 years?

So, he is going to completely overhaul the Knicks roster so we can suffer through years of making the playoffs and going nowhere once we get there? Yes, I said "we." I'm a native New Yorker, and while we may not agree on much else, I think we can agree New Yorkers love results and hate excuses.

29$JerZ
08-13-2009, 01:01 PM
And last I checked, it's the general manager who has the authority to change the coaches and the players if the results are less than satisfactory. So, should we believe Walsh thought just getting to the playoffs was satisfactory and did nothing? Or should we believe that Walsh made changes and got the same results for 23 years?

So, he is going to completely overhaul the Knicks roster so we can suffer through years of making the playoffs and going nowhere once we get there? Yes, I said "we." I'm a native New Yorker, and while we may not agree on much else, I think we can agree New Yorkers love results and hate excuses.

This is his first year, let the man do his job before the criticizing. Didn't have nothing to work with and made poop into something nice to look at. You need to build a team off of at least 1 player, we don't have 1. When we get one then we can criticze Walsh and his moves;)

Missing56&33
08-13-2009, 01:01 PM
OK. I'll completely ignore everything before Donnie Walsh was hired April 2nd, 2008. In fact, I'll even ignore last season and this season. What I can't ignore is that in his 23 years as general manager of the Pacers, Indiana always had great regular season records and did nothing in the playoffs. I somehow doubt player agents ignore that, and if I am a player agent, I am not rushing to have my superstars sign with the Knicks, knowing that Donnie Walsh has a 23 year track record of not doing anything in the playoffs. But that's just me.

What are you talking about the Pacers was always tough in the playoffs. They even made the finals one year....the conf finals a couple of times....to Walsh's defense...he had to get past my mighty Knicks team of Ewing, Mason, Oakley, Starks, Harper....that was a difficult thing to do.

ewing
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
With so much change in the nba offseason this year in free agency pick up sign and trades, and with next years annouced changes in salary cap,taxation,etc and a weak roster that has had no sort of upgrade or role player inserted over the offseason and no real sight or availability of quality free agents left. It would take atleast 3 superstars on that squad to even make a dent in the east, so why would any star leave a playoff or contender for the last place knick. Im not bashing the knicks here (nor do i want to see any silly i hate new york knicks,yankees,mets,rangers,islanders,giant,jets,p hew......post on here) ive been a ball fan all my life and before toronto got it team i was and still am a knick fan.(2nd team now) the whole talk of clearing the roster and signing two real superstar sounded good 10 months ago, but with all the for warning put out i find sad and even shameful that the kincks never diverted from this plan and added some role or quality player to better attract some stars. Now with two months till season starts and the same last place roster would you even think of signing with the knicks in 2010, please post why you think the stars are coming in 2010



The best case for the Knicks was signing 2 stars in 2010 and despite all the damage Isiah/Lyden did to the franchise becoming almost instantly relevent once they got some decent management in town but even if does not pan out they needed desperately to clean house and get back to a position where they could make free agent offers, develope youth, not be handicaped by the cap in trade situation, etc.

Your right in saying that its not looking like 2010 will be the savior for NY but they are doing the right thing and they will at very least be able to add revelent players in that offseason. As for the current offseason I really dont see many moves they could have made. Signing Session would have made sense in my mind b/c he's addresses a need and despite still being somewhat unproven I think once given the opportunity he'll likely be worth more then what it would have taken to sign him. Otherwise I guess you might have been able to give up on Lee and replaced him with Bass on the cheap but I don't see many other moves the Knicks could have made. Do you think they should have signed Hedo for 50 mil or Miller for huge money? What type of moves should they have made that would have benifited long term?

PrettyBoyJ
08-13-2009, 01:07 PM
I think a lot of these players will start signing extensions... Making the 2010 Free agency not so anticipating like it was.. Players Like Amare, Dirk, Joe Johnson, and Mayb Lebron Depending how they finish the season this year... For sure the only Player I see really picking up his option is Bosh and wade if the heats dont trade for boozer

ewing
08-13-2009, 01:09 PM
OK. I'll completely ignore everything before Donnie Walsh was hired April 2nd, 2008. In fact, I'll even ignore last season and this season. What I can't ignore is that in his 23 years as general manager of the Pacers, Indiana always had great regular season records and did nothing in the playoffs.
I somehow doubt player agents ignore that, and if I am a player agent, I am not rushing to have my superstars sign with the Knicks, knowing that Donnie Walsh has a 23 year track record of not doing anything in the playoffs. But that's just me.


The Pacers got to the finals once in that era and got the multiple conf finals. The Knicks got there twice during that same era and once they were the 8 seed in a shortened season. Your comment is just dumb. Both were sucesful franchise during that era and Donnie Pacers were right up until the Ron went in the stands and you know it.

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 01:17 PM
It's hard to blame Walsh for assembling a very good team in a decade that was dominated by Michael Jordan and the Bulls. Those Pacers teams along with the Knicks and Heat were very good during the '90's.

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 01:19 PM
The Pacers got to the finals once in that era and got the multiple conf finals. The Knicks got there twice during that same era and once they were the 8 seed in a shortened season. Your comment is just dumb. Both were sucesful franchise during that era and Donnie Pacers were right up until the Ron went in the stands and you know it.

Well, that changes everything. All my 20 year old superstart has to do is play until he's 40 and he'll make the finals once. His team won't win but he'll make the finals. Where does my max contract superstar sign up? :rolleyes:

SuperStars want to win the championship, not to make the conference finals or lose in the finals the only time they get there. Your argument is unconvincing.

ewing
08-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Well, that changes everything. All my 20 year old superstart has to do is play until he's 40 and he'll make the finals once. His team won't win but he'll make the finals. Where does my max contract superstar sign up? :rolleyes:

SuperStars want to win the championship, not to make the conference finals or lose in the finals the only time they get there. Your argument is unconvincing.


OK so completing for a title for 23 years while never being lucky enough to land a true franchise guy is a terrible record. That franchise maintained a very high level of sucess over a long period of time w/o the benifit of high draft choices and despite not being a favorable place to lure free agents.

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 01:42 PM
OK so completing for a title for 23 years while never being lucky enough to land a true franchise guy is a terrible record. That franchise maintained a very high level of sucess over a long period of time w/o the benifit of high draft choices and despite not being a favorable place to lure free agents.

This isn't a Donnie Walsh attack.
This is a give me reasons why someone would choose New York over every other team vying for his services when New York can't offer as much money, can't offer as long a contract, has no recent track record of successes, or even playoff appearances.

Nobody is lining up to play in New York just because it is New York.
Nobody of note has done that in a long time.
What does New York have to offer a player that would make a max contract superstar want to play there instead of anywhere else?

SuperStars are all about instant gratification. Can a SuperStar get that in New York? Only until he starts to fail and then the media pressures and the fan criticisms destroy confidence and he half-***** his way out of his contract. Sound familiar?

Stop being homers and give valid reasons why superstars should choose New York over their current teams or any other teams.

scully8743
08-13-2009, 01:46 PM
If there's enough guaranteed money anybody would. That's what it's all about.

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 01:53 PM
New York can offer as much money as any team in the league other than Cleveland. The amount of money LeBron would get just by the sales of blue and orange #23 jerseys would probably make money even out.

And who's roster is built better for the next 5-6 years, a LeBron-less Cavs team or the Knicks right now? Let's for argument's sake say Cleveland is even able to lure Bosh and then resigns LeBron. With LeBron, Bosh and Varejao's contracts he's not adding anyone else other than late 1st round draft picks.

DCSportsIsPain
08-13-2009, 01:57 PM
If there's enough guaranteed money anybody would. That's what it's all about.

Which brings us back to the Arenas Rule.

Teams can re-sign their own players for more money and longer terms than other teams can sign players away for.

Is New York supposed to hope teams don't even attempt to re-sign their own players? Is Cleveland just supposed to let LeBron walk?

New York can't offer more money.
New York can't offer a more loaded roster of teammates.
New York can't offer a recent history of playoff appearances.
New York can't claim sponsorship dollars come with playing in New York.

If I am all about me, as most NBA superstars are, I want to know what's in it for me. It's all about me, so sell me on how New york is all about me, and don't tell me about how the media and the fans will be all over my *** the first time I have a bad game. That is not a selling point.

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 02:17 PM
It's a difference of about 5 million over 5 years for LeBron. The difference in the merchandise sales and media coverage would more than make up for that. LeBron has said he wants to be an icon and the world's first billion dollar athlete. His best bet to do that is in New York.

And again, is Cleveland's roster really better without LeBron than New York's?

ewing
08-13-2009, 02:21 PM
This isn't a Donnie Walsh attack.
This is a give me reasons why someone would choose New York over every other team vying for his services when New York can't offer as much money, can't offer as long a contract, has no recent track record of successes, or even playoff appearances.

Nobody is lining up to play in New York just because it is New York.
Nobody of note has done that in a long time.
What does New York have to offer a player that would make a max contract superstar want to play there instead of anywhere else?

SuperStars are all about instant gratification. Can a SuperStar get that in New York? Only until he starts to fail and then the media pressures and the fan criticisms destroy confidence and he half-***** his way out of his contract. Sound familiar?

Stop being homers and give valid reasons why superstars should choose New York over their current teams or any other teams.



The comment I responded to was not asking for reason why a superstar would agree to sign in NY. It basicly stated that one would be less likely too b/c the Pacers didn't win titles under Donnie and I think that is BS.

Anyway, I agree that the Knicks are unlikely to net a true franchise player next off season but I don't think that means Donnie made a mistake by getting the franchise back to finanical sanity. I also not think Donnie and Mike D should be seen as failures if they dont net a franchise guy next year. The team was dead and had no options. Now they are developing a young core and will have options. Of course you hope that everything falls into place and LeBron comes to NYC but in reality if the Knicks only suffered for 2 years post Isiah and then landed Bron Donnie would get called a genius and he'd deserve it but he'd would have also gotten lucky as hell.

ewing
08-13-2009, 02:27 PM
It's a difference of about 5 million over 5 years for LeBron. The difference in the merchandise sales and media coverage would more than make up for that. LeBron has said he wants to be an icon and the world's first billion dollar athlete. His best bet to do that is in New York.

And again, is Cleveland's roster really better without LeBron than New York's?


Yeah it is. They are very very good defensive team, dont make a ton of mistakes, have some verstility, a couple of shot makers, and are tough. The Knicks are have some young developing talent but are dreadfully small and are terrible on the defensive end

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Long term I'm not so sure. Both Shaq and Ilgauskas are getting up there in age and are free agents after this season. That Varejao contract I think is going to only look worse as time goes on. Mo Williams is a nice player but I think a backcourt of Williams and West versus Chandler and Douglas isn't that big of a difference.

foonaka
08-13-2009, 02:56 PM
Well, the Celtics went from cellar-dwellers to champs in one year's time, so anything is possible.

Having said that, if I'm a superstar in the NBA and I want to win a championship, then I am NOT playing on any team coached by Mike D'Antoni. The guy is a pretty good regular season coach, and the Knicks will sell a lot of tickets because they'll run the floor like crazy, but you HAVE TO PLAY DEFENSE TO WIN IT ALL.

ewing
08-13-2009, 03:01 PM
Long term I'm not so sure. Both Shaq and Ilgauskas are getting up there in age and are free agents after this season. That Varejao contract I think is going to only look worse as time goes on. Mo Williams is a nice player but I think a backcourt of Williams and West versus Chandler and Douglas isn't that big of a difference.


I didn't think thats what you were asking though. Over time NY's may become better then Clev's but right now Clev does have a significantly better supporting caste for Bron and like the other guy said most superstar are not willing to wait for success

1st to 3rd
08-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I'm not even talking about throughout his contract, the first season LeBron plays with the Knicks would be '10-'11. You have to judge what the talent level would be then, not what it was in '08-'09.

J4KOP99
08-13-2009, 03:15 PM
This isn't even worth asking until after the trade deadline of this upcoming season.


Right now I do not think a big name player would sign with this current Knicks' roster but a lot can/will change over the course of this next year.

New York City does have an unbelievable drawing ability when it comes to bringing in top names. Look at all of the sports teams in NYC over the years...players WANT to play in NYC and that is not even worth arguing.