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Draco
08-09-2009, 07:03 AM
Excerpt from a lengthy article. Worth reading the entire piece rather than posting a response to just this excerpt.

http://www.thefanzine.com/articles/sport/58/m.s.g.-_stop_calling_it_the_basketball_mecca/1


...That’s a rich basketball history, but not a regal one. Remember, a ‘mecca’ is defined, besides as an actual place in Saudi Arabia, as “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.” In other words, Madison Square Garden purports to be the destination of anyone looking to play amateur or professional basketball. This would require every kid with a ball and a hoop to aim considerably low, since no one dreams of hitting the game-winning shot in the NIT, or wanting to be “Like Pat,” or, for that matter, part of a franchise known more as perennial also-rans than as anything resembling royalty. It doesn’t take any stretch of the imagination to say that Madison Square Garden has a richer history of professional wrestling than basketball; after all, it’s the birthplace of Wrestlemania.

Or consider other NBA arenas for a moment. The Boston Celtics won sixteen NBA championships while playing at the old Boston Garden. The Los Angeles Lakers have fourteen, including six at the Forum in Inglewood and three at their present home, the Staples Center (also home to the Clippers). The Chicago Bulls won six titles, three at Chicago Stadium and three more at the United Center. Even the coldly-named AT&T Center in San Antonio has seen its Spurs win two titles in its three-year existence. Yet neither the owners nor the tenants of these stadiums have felt the need to confer upon them the status of “mecca.” They don’t have to....

...It does the Garden an injustice to aggrandize its basketball history and stature. New York City is the center of a lot of different universes, including theatre, publishing, finance, fashion, and (probably) baseball. The basketball universe? Let’s not embarrass ourselves with this foolish consistency any longer. We shouldn’t have to.

D-Leethal
08-09-2009, 07:42 AM
Dude has obviously never been to NYC. Basketball IS NYC, NYC is basketball. Its more than just the building in which the NY team plays in, the whole city lives and breathes bball. You don't see that on the streets of Boston.

Draco
08-09-2009, 07:45 AM
Dude has obviously never been to NYC. Basketball IS NYC, NYC is basketball. Its more than just the building in which the NY team plays in, the whole city lives and breathes bball. You don't see that on the streets of Boston.

You didn't read the article.. the author had been living in NYC for 5 years when he wrote the article.

DetroitRipCity
08-09-2009, 08:09 AM
Dude has obviously never been to NYC. Basketball IS NYC, NYC is basketball. Its more than just the building in which the NY team plays in, the whole city lives and breathes bball. You don't see that on the streets of Boston.

umm YOU dont see what its like on the streets of Detroit

azkarraga
08-09-2009, 08:13 AM
i like the MSG. a lot.

DetroitRipCity
08-09-2009, 08:19 AM
i like the MSG. a lot.

I want to go there at least once before I die... I suggest that everyone try and go see a game at the palace too, there is nothing like a Playoff Palace atmosphere

magichatnumber9
08-09-2009, 08:24 AM
Maybe Mecca is just the wrong word and I agree with that. But if your a superstar in this league and wanna grab a few million dollar sponsors, you kick *** at MSG and it's like money in the bank.
PS. Some of the countries best basketball players came from all over New York City. Respect

arkanian215
08-09-2009, 08:45 AM
heck it's better than the izod center. anything better would be a mecca in my book and yeah... pretty much any arena is better than that dingy box.

OG "Dee" LOCc
08-09-2009, 09:25 AM
This guys not gonna change people calling MSG the mecca lol

but nice try

Draco
08-09-2009, 09:29 AM
This guys not gonna change people calling MSG the mecca lol

but nice try

And I'm sure he's deeply upset about that.

KnicksR4Real
08-09-2009, 09:36 AM
MSG is the best arena in the world, it is the most known and most popular. It has all the history.

Draco
08-09-2009, 09:51 AM
MSG is the best arena in the world, it is the most known and most popular. It has all the history.

And the author makes a similar point.


I’ve always preferred the Garden’s more generic nickname, “The World’s Most Famous Arena.” This, of course, is probably true, and it encompasses everything that the Garden can showcase, from the Knicks, Liberty, and Rangers to rock concerts, political conventions, boxing, and the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show. (And, yes, Wrestlemania.) It invokes a sensationalism that recalls the days of P.T. Barnum, who in fact opened the hippodrome in 1871 that would later be named Madison Square Garden. Basketball is but one form of entertainment that puts ***** in seats at this fabled venue, and the Knicks, et.al., ought to be proud to play there. It does the Garden an injustice to aggrandize its basketball history and stature. New York City is the center of a lot of different universes, including theatre, publishing, finance, fashion, and (probably) baseball. The basketball universe? Let’s not embarrass ourselves with this foolish consistency any longer. We shouldn’t have to.

MaHaRaJaH
08-09-2009, 10:31 AM
And the game was invented by a Canadian... (who was living in America at that time).

MSG34
08-09-2009, 11:00 AM
:laugh:

Was this really written on 3/29/06? This was written when the Isiah era started.

This articles irrelevant. So, he's taking the literal definition of Mecca and saying it doesn't fit because we're not as good anymore? Good for you.

New York is the center of the basketball world, regardless of our history. The argument that MSG should be stripped of the title "Mecca" based on our 2006 play is a weak one.

MSG will always be the Mecca and sooner than some think, the Knicks will be back to making it fit, exactly as the center of activity of people sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:05 AM
:laugh:

This articles pointless. So, he's taking the literal definition of Mecca and saying it doesn't fit because we're not as good anymore? Good for you.

Actually it's a pretty good article if you can understand it. :rolleyes:

And yes, the article is 3 years old.. so what?



MSG will always be the Mecca and sooner than some think, the Knicks will be back to making it fit, exactly as the center of activity of people sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.

Be back? It never was. Clearly you missed the point.

torontosports10
08-09-2009, 11:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzsbZ3oem3Y&feature=related

O Canada

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:19 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzsbZ3oem3Y&feature=related

O Canada

Nice clipe but Naismith was a naturalized American living in Massachusetts when he created the game. ...And the home of the brave. ;)

MSG34
08-09-2009, 11:19 AM
You didn't read the article.. the author had been living in NYC for 5 years when he wrote the article.

Just to point out he's from Wisconsin.

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:21 AM
Just to point out he's from Wisconsin.

I knew that...

king4day
08-09-2009, 11:25 AM
Isn't this article a tad outdated?
In 2006, Boston and LA couldn't be defended either since they both blew at the time.

Knicks are a bad team right now. Every team goes through it. No one would have argued this in the 90's. It's just a nickname for the arena. If it changed to another team, then people would just call that franchise 'unoriginal', and when the Knicks get better and start pounding on the new holder of 'mecca', people will question it again.

MSG34
08-09-2009, 11:27 AM
Actually it's a pretty good article if you can understand it. :rolleyes:

And yes, the article is 3 years old.. so what?



Be back? It never was. Clearly you missed the point.

The date matters b/c the author makes references about what was the current Knicks. He seems to be forming his opinions based on what he's seen from the 2006 New York Knicks.

I think it's a little off that a guy who doesn't really know NY and has only really watched the 2006 Knicks makes the case that NY should not be called the Mecca.


It’s basketball where I have a tough time showing the love. It’s easy to pile on the thoroughly pathetic Knicks, 27 games under .500 with a payroll that could budget a Peter Jackson blockbuster. Enough ink has been spilled over the redundant backcourt, the boneheaded trades of Isiah Thomas, and the exposing of Larry Brown for what he really is––a good but not great basketball coach who has been around a really long time.


Please enlighten me. I'm curious to know your thoughts, tell me why MSG should never have been/be labeled as the Mecca.

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:28 AM
Well.. this is why I urged people to actually read the article before posting.

The last 3 years really doesn't make any difference.

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:28 AM
Please enlighten me. I'm curious to know your thoughts, tell me why MSG should never be labeled as the Mecca.

Uh, why not just read the article.

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:40 AM
The date matters b/c the author makes references about what was the current Knicks. He seems to be forming his opinions based on what he's seen from the 2006 New York Knicks.

I think it's a little off that a guy who doesn't really know NY and has only really watched the 2006 Knicks makes the case that NY should not be called the Mecca.

For Christ sake.. read the article. The author isn't forming his opinions based on the 2006 Knicks.

torontosports10
08-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Nice clipe but Naismith was a naturalized American living in Massachusetts when he created the game. ...And the home of the brave. ;)

He lived in Canada for almost his first 30 years. He was Canadian. He created the game as soon as he got to the US. It was created by a Canadian and dont try to downplay it. :rolleyes:

MSG34
08-09-2009, 11:46 AM
For Christ sake.. read the article. The author isn't forming his opinions based on the 2006 Knicks.

He's making references on the 2006 Knicks and using his experience in NY to form his argument. Keep in mind, how you may interpret it is a lot different than how a knicks fan may.

A fair criticism on the "Mecca" would come from someone who has an understanding of NYC and has followed them (not necessarily a Knick fan)

Draco
08-09-2009, 12:05 PM
He's making references on the 2006 Knicks and using his experience in NY to form his argument. Keep in mind, how you may interpret it is a lot different than how a knicks fan may.

A fair criticism on the "Mecca" would come from someone who has an understanding of NYC and has followed them (not necessarily a Knick fan)

Since I actually did read the article I know that his reference to 2006 was not the main point and not even much of a supporting point. The entire history of basketball at MSG doesn't live up to the label. Instead of calling Lebron James, "King James".. labeling MSG, "the Mecca of basketball" is like calling Mike James, "King James".

GodsSon
08-09-2009, 12:14 PM
MSG is the best arena in the world, it is the most known and most popular. It has all the history.

thats looking at it from a biased North American standpoint...what about all the massive soccer stadiums in Europe?...old trafford, estado da luz, estado santiago bernabeu...its arguably the most famous in North America, but to say the world is a big stretch imo

mdabstar
08-09-2009, 12:19 PM
new york is SPORTS. they have yankee stadium and msg

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 12:21 PM
You didn't read the article.. the author had been living in NYC for 5 years when he wrote the article.

EXACTLYYYYY.

It wasnt just named the Mecca recently. Everyone knows the Knicks stink right now so just another article to trash them.

I have lived in NY for almost 20 years now. Born & Raised.

What you people fail to understand is that MSG is not only for the Knicks. It has seen some of the MOST HISTORICAL events in history. Boxing, Concerts,...ETC.

mdabstar
08-09-2009, 12:23 PM
thats looking at it from a biased North American standpoint...what about all the massive soccer stadiums in Europe?...old trafford, estado da luz, estado santiago bernabeu...its arguably the most famous in North America, but to say the world is a big stretch imo

i agree with you 100%

Draco
08-09-2009, 12:28 PM
EXACTLYYYYY.

It wasnt just named the Mecca recently. Everyone knows the Knicks stink right now so just another article to trash them.

I have lived in NY for almost 20 years now. Born & Raised.

Hard to comment on this because it makes no sense in terms of either the conversation in the thread or the article. Good to know youv'e lived in NY for 20 years... :shrug:



What you people fail to understand is that MSG is not only for the Knicks. It has seen some of the MOST HISTORICAL events in history. Boxing, Concerts,...ETC.

The author in particular did not fail to realize this point but it really has nothing to do with the label, "Mecca of basketball"

Giantwarrior
08-09-2009, 12:32 PM
umm.. who cares what he thinks, seriously. just another writer, just another opinion. why waste your time discussing what someone else thinks?

Draco
08-09-2009, 12:33 PM
umm.. who cares what he thinks, seriously. just another writer, just another opinion. why waste your time discussing what someone else thinks?

I don't know.. umm, why are you on this forum? :rolleyes:

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 12:33 PM
Hard to comment on this because it makes no sense in terms of either the conversation in the thread or the article. Good to know youv'e lived in NY for 20 years... :shrug:



The author in particular did not fail to realize this point but it really has nothing to do with the label, "Mecca of basketball"


Remember, a ‘mecca’ is defined, as “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.”

Lets be REALISTIC here. Who wouldn't want to play @ MSG?

Because when he explained the definition of Mecca is, I can say that in America, MSG would be the #1 Basketball Arena that the highest percentage of people would want to play in regardless of who's on the roster. Just picking by arena alone MSG would win over any other arena in basketball.

Draco
08-09-2009, 12:37 PM
Because when he explained the definition of Mecca is, I can say that in America, MSG would be the #1 Basketball Arena that the highest percentage of people would want to play in regardless of who's on the roster. Just picking by arena alone MSG would win over any other arena in basketball.

How convenient for you to make that statement when there's no way to prove it. I guess I can't point out that Kidd and Nash turned the Knicks down because there was more than just the arena to consider... darn it. :rolleyes:

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 12:49 PM
How convenient for you to make that statement when there's no way to prove it. I guess I can't point out that Kidd and Nash turned the Knicks down because there was more than just the arena to consider... darn it. :rolleyes:

Great now were bringing up ONLY actual NBA Players. :pity:

There's no way to prove it but like I said lets be realistic, based off the arena alone excluding whos on what roster MSG would be the highest voted arena to play for. We all know MOST people would love to play in NY.

Both Kidd & Nash got more money elsewhere and OBVIOUSLY there decision had other factors in. Such as the ROSTER.

Like I said, as Mecca referenced a lot of America loves basketball and we all know deep down MSG would be the #1 arena people would choose. You know it, I know it, everyone here knows it.

Stop the hating of MSG.

Draco
08-09-2009, 12:53 PM
Great now were bringing up ONLY actual NBA Players. :pity:

There's no way to prove it but like I said lets be realistic, based off the arena alone excluding whos on what roster MSG would be the highest voted arena to play for. We all know MOST people would love to play in NY.

Both Kidd & Nash got more money elsewhere and OBVIOUSLY there decision had other factors in. Such as the ROSTER.

Like I said, as Mecca referenced a lot of America loves basketball and we all know deep down MSG would be the #1 arena people would choose. You know it, I know it, everyone here knows it.

Stop the hating of MSG.

I'll tell ya what I know and I don't even have to search deep down for it.. that you've given a paper thin argument (scratch that.. not argument but personal belief) for labeling MSG as "Mecca of Basketball"

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 12:58 PM
I'll tell ya what I know and I don't even have to search deep down for it.. that you've given a paper thin argument (scratch that.. not argument but personal belief) for labeling MSG as "Mecca of Basketball"

Kay. :clap:


Say what you want but we all know its the truth.

Hustla23
08-09-2009, 01:00 PM
MSG is the Mecca for basketball. :)

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:02 PM
Kay. :clap:


Say what you want but we all know its the truth.

Well.. Adam Underhilll wrote a very convincing article about MSG so I think that I do know "the truth."

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:03 PM
MSG is the Mecca for basketball. :)

Which is kinda like Knick fans proclaiming they'd make the playoffs every year, the last several years. ;)

MajorFloridaFan
08-09-2009, 01:03 PM
MSG is the mecca for basketball.....and i dont like the knicks at all....But you still have to give that title to them....

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:04 PM
MSG is the mecca for basketball.....and i dont like the knicks at all....But you still have to give that title to them....

No I don't.. and there's a great 5 page article that details why I don't.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:06 PM
No I don't.. and there's a great 5 page article that details why I don't.

So DONT.

But the majority of us here in America will continue to do so.

The same way I said a majority of us would pick that Arena over any other.

Lakers_ftw
08-09-2009, 01:06 PM
I think it's called the "mecca" because the size and population of New York City. It doesn't necessarily mean the BEST.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:09 PM
I think it's called the "mecca" because the size and population of New York City. It doesn't necessarily mean the BEST.

Exactly. The author isnt realizing what the definition of MECCA stands for YET he clearly posts it in the article.

Its like I said, its just another article to trash the Knicks.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:09 PM
I think it's called the "mecca" because the size and population of New York City. It doesn't necessarily mean the BEST.

Oy vey. You could just google the word to know that you've missed the mark.

Here:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mecca

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:10 PM
Exactly. The author isnt realizing what the definition of MECCA stands for YET he clearly posts it in the article.

Its like I said, its just another article to trash the Knicks.

Twice wrong.. maybe third time's the charm?

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:11 PM
Oy vey. You could just google the word to know that you've missed the mark.

Here:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mecca

Your just as bad as the author.

Heres your definition


a. A place that is regarded as the center of an activity or interest.
b. A goal to which adherents of a religious faith or practice fervently aspire.
2. A place visited by many people:

Nowhere Do I see "Best" "Greatest"...etc.

Once again, the majority of people in America would rather play in MSG over any other arena.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:12 PM
Twice wrong.. maybe third time's the charm?

No YOUR completely wrong.

You've been wrong since you made the thread.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:12 PM
Your just as bad as the author.

Heres your definition



Nowhere Do I see "Best" "Greatest"...etc.

Once again, the majority of people in America would rather play in MSG over any other arena.

No where does the author suggest best or greatest...

And again, your personal belief makes for a piss poor argument.

Seriously, put some effort into actually reading the article.. it would go a long way towards improving your own position on this topic... I'd say that it would also save yourself from a lot of embarrassment but most everyone else in this thread is in the same boat as you are.. too lazy to even google the word mecca to know what it means, or to read the article .

allday823
08-09-2009, 01:14 PM
so where would you consider the mecca of basketball? boston? boston is the mecca of the NBA not basketball, New York City makes the best players time in and time out REGARDLESS of NBA status. No other place in the world has rucker park or the cage, MSG doesnt represent NBA domination, but it does represent the rich basketball culture of NY. NYC also has the toughest high school league in the country. bottom line...NY is where the heart of basketball lives, MSG is in it....stop hating =]

Dmagic87
08-09-2009, 01:14 PM
You guys are all ********. Who cares what you think, what I think, and what the stupid guy who wrote this article thinks.

Ask the damn players. The Jordans, Kobes, and Lebrons. They are the ones that think playing in the garden is special. Both Kobe and Lebron called MSG the Mecca and both put on great performances. Lebron even said there is something special about MSG, it has a stage like feeling unlike any other arena. MSG is the Mecca, just leave it alone.

tkshy
08-09-2009, 01:15 PM
Madison Square Garden is the "mecca", because there have been so many great players to come out of NY. Also, because the NBA has it's head offices there. It really doesn't have to do with the Knicks. Yes they suck right now, but ask any player where he loves playing and why. The answer 9 out of 10 times....(other than there home stadium cause they have to say it) is NY. MJ, Kobe, LeBron all have said there is something about playing in NY in the Mecca. The NBA revolves around NY cause that is where KING STERN has his offices...lol.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:16 PM
No where does the author suggest best or greatest...

And again, your personal belief makes for a piss poor argument.

Well this is what the damn article is trying to get the point across that MSG has been GARBAGE, bringing up NBA Titles knowing the Knicks history compared to BOS, LA, hell even SA.

The article itself is a PISS POOR ARGUMENT.



Mecca:
a. A place that is regarded as the center of an activity or interest.
b. A goal to which adherents of a religious faith or practice fervently aspire.
2. A place visited by many people:

A. MSG is the biggest arena in NY & the most FAMOUS in AMERICA
b. Doesnt Apply.
2. ALL THE TIME.

MSG = MECCA.

Your going to tell me if someone was coming from another country they would go to the Staples center over the MSG to visit? Yea okay.

EVEN in the case of Basketball.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:18 PM
No where does the author suggest best or greatest...

And again, your personal belief makes for a piss poor argument.

Seriously, put some effort into actually reading the article.. it would go a long way towards improving your own position on this topic... I'd say that it would also save yourself from a lot of embarrassment but most everyone else in this thread is in the same boat as you are.. too lazy to even google the word mecca to know what it means, or to read the article .

Like everyone else is saying. Your just hating just like the author of the article. In my previous post I already EXPLAINED the definition so I dont need to google anything. Your wrong, Stop hating.

I know exactly where my position is and I dont need to improve on it because I have already proven myself correct where as you continue to bring up NO argument WHAT SO EVER.

Teeboy1487
08-09-2009, 01:19 PM
I think the author of this article is trying to say that the "basketball mecca" is a bad nickname of MSG considering other teams and arenas have had more success in basketball than MSG. For instance, the old Yankee Stadium's nickname is "the house that Ruth built". That is very accurate because Ruth had so much success in Yankee Stadium and he is arguably the best baseball player ever. MSG has only seen two nba championships yet they call it the Mecca of basketball when other Great forums like The Boston Garden, The Great Western Forum, and Chicago Stadium have had more success. Although, MSG's other nickname "the world's most famous arena" is more accurate because of the rich history it has that is more than basketball like some other poster mentioned before me. I agree that NYC is one of the best basketball cities in the world, but other arenas have more rich basketball history than MSG, but MSG is the most popular arena in North America. That was my take from the article.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:21 PM
I think the author of this article is trying to say that the "basketball mecca" is a bad nickname of MSG considering other teams and arenas have had more success in basketball than MSG. For instance, the old Yankee Stadium's nickname is "the house that Ruth built". That is very accurate because Ruth had so much success in Yankee Stadium and he is arguably the best baseball player ever. MSG has only seen two nba championships yet they call it the Mecca of basketball when other Great forums like The Boston Garden, The Great Western Forum, and Chicago Stadium have had more success. Although, MSG's other nickname "the world's most famous arena" is more accurate because of the rich history it has that is more than basketball like some other poster mentioned before me. I agree that NYC is one of the best basketball cities in the world, but other arenas have more rich basketball history than MSG, but MSG is the most popular arena in North America. That was my take from the article.

While your correct in some ways there, the definition of Mecca has NOTHING to do with History in terms of Success which is where the Author and ESPECIALLY the OP FAIL to realize.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:21 PM
Well this is what the damn article is trying to get the point across that MSG has been GARBAGE, bringing up NBA Titles knowing the Knicks history compared to BOS, LA, hell even SA.

The article itself is a PISS POOR ARGUMENT.



A. MSG is the biggest arena in NY & the most FAMOUS in AMERICA
b. Doesnt Apply.
2. ALL THE TIME.

MSG = MECCA.

Your going to tell me if someone was coming from another country they would go to the Staples center over the MSG to visit? Yea okay.

EVEN in the case of Basketball.

WTF? :confused:

The article present a bad argument because what exactly?

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:25 PM
WTF? :confused:

The article present a bad argument because what exactly?

Pay attention to the important part of my post. I defined each section of Mecca for you and gave you an example of why MSG fits Mecca.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:28 PM
Pay attention to the important part of my post. I defined each section of Mecca for you and gave you an example of why MSG fits Mecca.

Is that what you did? Yeesh. :(

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Is that what you did? Yeesh. :(

Yea, continue to make pointless posts.

Your wrong.

Anyways im out. Done with the topic, your pretty much the only one agreeing with the Author.

Teeboy1487
08-09-2009, 01:32 PM
While your correct in some ways there, the definition of Mecca has NOTHING to do with History in terms of Success which is where the Author and ESPECIALLY the OP FAIL to realize. You are right. Mecca does mean in Islamic values that it's the holiest meeting site. That's kind of true considering how stars like Lebron and Kobe get so motivated to play in MSG.So, I agree with you. MSG is about more than basketball. The mecca nickname can be accurate considering how rich in history and popular MSG is.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:32 PM
You guys are all ********. Who cares what you think, what I think, and what the stupid guy who wrote this article thinks.

Ask the damn players. The Jordans, Kobes, and Lebrons. They are the ones that think playing in the garden is special. Both Kobe and Lebron called MSG the Mecca and both put on great performances. Lebron even said there is something special about MSG, it has a stage like feeling unlike any other arena. MSG is the Mecca, just leave it alone.

That's actually the first good point I've read in this thread. Although I tend to side with the writer about it being a cliche and players are sort of afraid to say anything controversial.. To me, it seems like Kobe or Lebron had probably heard MJ say it and parroted the same words. Hell, Kobe tries to copy everything else MJ does. ;)

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:33 PM
Yea, continue to make pointless posts.

Your wrong.

Anyways im out. Done with the topic, your pretty much the only one agreeing with the Author.

I can at least understand the authors position well enough to decide that I do agree with him.

jscotty8
08-09-2009, 01:34 PM
New York is such an overated sports town in every way... Basketball will always belong to places like Indiana and Boston...

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:35 PM
I can at least understand the authors position well enough to decide that I do agree with him.

I understand his position but it's not a VALID argument because he's mistaking Mecca for Success. Which The DEFINITION of Mecca HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:35 PM
I understand his position but it's not a VALID argument because he's mistaking Mecca for Success. Which The DEFINITION of Mecca HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH.

You've proved that you don't. Sorry.

Super.
08-09-2009, 01:41 PM
Dude has obviously never been to NYC. Basketball IS NYC, NYC is basketball. Its more than just the building in which the NY team plays in, the whole city lives and breathes bball. You don't see that on the streets of Boston.

I went to NYC at couple of years ago. Back when the celtics were terrible. i saw more Celtic Green than i saw Yankees stuff, and WAY more than i saw Knicks stuff.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:41 PM
You've proved that you don't. Sorry.

No what you have proved is that you don't even understand what the hell you posted.

Which was:


...That’s a rich basketball history, but not a regal one. Remember, a ‘mecca’ is defined, besides as an actual place in Saudi Arabia, as “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.” In other words, Madison Square Garden purports to be the destination of anyone looking to play amateur or professional basketball. This would require every kid with a ball and a hoop to aim considerably low, since no one dreams of hitting the game-winning shot in the NIT, or wanting to be “Like Pat,” or, for that matter, part of a franchise known more as perennial also-rans than as anything resembling royalty. It doesn’t take any stretch of the imagination to say that Madison Square Garden has a richer history of professional wrestling than basketball; after all, it’s the birthplace of Wrestlemania.

Or consider other NBA arenas for a moment. The Boston Celtics won sixteen NBA championships while playing at the old Boston Garden. The Los Angeles Lakers have fourteen, including six at the Forum in Inglewood and three at their present home, the Staples Center (also home to the Clippers). The Chicago Bulls won six titles, three at Chicago Stadium and three more at the United Center. Even the coldly-named AT&T Center in San Antonio has seen its Spurs win two titles in its three-year existence. Yet neither the owners nor the tenants of these stadiums have felt the need to confer upon them the status of “mecca.” They don’t have to....

Explain to me, PLEASE. What does "Mecca" have to do with ANY of that. Which obviously the Author used strongly to point out.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 01:41 PM
while the Knicks don't resmemble a team a lot of the time that is from the mecca of basketball, it is the city that makes it so. The playgrounds of NY have their own wall in the HOF for christ sake. There are so many legends to come off of Rucker, and the numerous parks around around the buroughs of NYC, it could fill 20 NBA rosters. NYC is the mecca of basketball. No doubt

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:43 PM
Explain to me, PLEASE. What does "Mecca" have to do with ANY of that. Which obviously the Author used strongly to point out.

You just quoted the article and you're asking me this question? Are you serious?

:laugh:

Cubs Win
08-09-2009, 01:44 PM
It's funny cause the only people who seem to think its the "mecca of basketball" are Knick fans. I don't understand how it can be. It hasn't seen a championship since the 70's and has only seen 2 in total. I can't wait until none of the big FA's go to the Knicks in 2010 and they experience at least another decade of futility. MSG: The
Mecca of Basketball :laugh:

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Anyways im out. Done with the topic, your pretty much the only one agreeing with the Author.

Run with this one man.. get out while you can. ;)

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:46 PM
You just quoted the article and you're asking me this question? Are you serious?

:laugh:

Exactly im asking YOU. Your like the only idoit over here agreeing with the author and since I cannot ask him, im asking you.

You have really made yourself look dumb.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:47 PM
It's funny cause the only people who seem to think its the "mecca of basketball" are Knick fans. I don't understand how it can be. It hasn't seen a championship since the 70's and has only seen 2 in total. I can't wait until none of the big FA's go to the Knicks in 2010 and they experience at least another decade of futility. MSG: The
Mecca of Basketball :laugh:

I am not a Knick fan and once again Mecca has nothing to do with Success. So your post is not a valid one to the topic at hand.

d00d
08-09-2009, 01:47 PM
for the Bulls in the 90's it was a hell of a mecca. Hi Charles Smith

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:48 PM
while the Knicks don't resmemble a team a lot of the time that is from the mecca of basketball, it is the city that makes it so. The playgrounds of NY have their own wall in the HOF for christ sake. There are so many legends to come off of Rucker, and the numerous parks around around the buroughs of NYC, it could fill 20 NBA rosters. NYC is the mecca of basketball. No doubt

I don't know how rich in basketball lore other cities might be compared with NYC but that's not really the point of the article. We're talking about MSG.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:49 PM
Exactly im asking YOU. Your like the only idoit over here agreeing with the author and since I cannot ask him, im asking you.

You have really made yourself look dumb.

I'm not going to translate the article for you. If you didn't understand then there's an excellent chance that you're the idiot.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:49 PM
for the bulls in the 90's it was a hell of a mecca. Hi charles smith

+1

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 01:50 PM
Why is this such a big deal? It's one authors opinion, dated from 2006.
Does it really matter what a few posters and someone elses opion is? MSG is the Mecca of basketball, ask anyone and they say MSG. Stop making this into a big who is right who is wrong deal.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:50 PM
I'm not going to translate the article for you. If you didn't understand then there's an excellent chance that you're the idiot.

Your not going to because you CANT.

You simply CANNOT. The author stated the success and championships of the Celtics, Lakers and Spurs but for what reason. What does that have to do with the meaning of Mecca?

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:51 PM
Your not going to because you CANT.

You simply CANNOT. The author stated the success and championships of the Celtics, Lakers and Spurs but for what reason. What does that have to do with the meaning of Mecca?

Actually it's just easier for me to call you an idiot for not understanding an article written by a professional writer. ;)

kobelaughsatall
08-09-2009, 01:52 PM
why are you all sitting here arguing with Draco. He is one of the most annoying posters on psd who trys make himself out to be the smartest person on psd. He says that msg shouldn't be called the "mecca" of basketball, but has yet to tell us which arena he feels is deserving of such a title.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:53 PM
why are you all sitting here arguing with Draco. He is one of the most annoying posters on psd who trys make himself out to be the smartest person on psd. He says that msg shouldn't be called the "mecca" of basketball, but has yet to tell us which arena he feels is deserving of such a title.

You were waiting for me to tell you which arena is the "Mecca of Basketball"? Really? :rolleyes:

NYtilIdie
08-09-2009, 01:55 PM
It doesn't really matter what this guy thinks people will still call it the "Mecca"

MSG is the most famous arena in the U.S. (with Staples in 2nd) classic events have events taken place there such as the 1st WrestleMania was held in MSG, Ali vs Frazier 1st match, the famous 2pac and Notorious BIG freestyle took place in MSG, and of course Knicks basketball.

Many players say playing in MSG is different from any other arena. The atmosphere is different from any other arena.

Its called the "Mecca" because of its history and how many people go/want to visit it because of its history.

Maybe if we started calling the United Center the "Mecca" you would have no problem with it:rolleyes:

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Actually it's just easier for me to call you an idiot for not understanding an article written by a professional writer. ;)

Yea because professional writers are always CORRECT.

I'm not telling u to help me understand it because I def. understand but what YOU CONTINUE TO FAIL to understand is that the Author is WRONG

HES WRONG. His evidence to prove otherwise is WRONG.

Success has nothing to do with Mecca and that is what he clearly posted. Was the success of OTHER teams. && Here you are agreeing yet you cant back it up.

FAIL.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 01:59 PM
It doesn't really matter what this guy thinks people will still call it the "Mecca"

MSG is the most famous arena in the U.S. (with Staples in 2nd) classic events have events taken place there such as the 1st WrestleMania was held in MSG, Ali vs Frazier 1st match, the famous 2pac and Notorious BIG freestyle took place in MSG, and of course Knicks basketball.

Many players say playing in MSG is different from any other arena. The atmosphere is different from any other arena.

Its called the "Mecca" because of its history and how many people go/want to visit it because of its history.

Maybe if we started calling the United Center the "Mecca" you would have no problem with it:rolleyes:

That's exactly correct. Nowhere in your post Do I see anything about the Success of the Knicks. Which makes complete sense because Mecca has nothing to do with that.

It most def. seems so. Very biased fan that Draco is.

Im not even a Knick fan but this guy Draco is a Hater.

Draco
08-09-2009, 01:59 PM
It doesn't really matter what this guy thinks people will still call it the "Mecca"

Well this thread certainly supports that idea.. at least for a lot of New Yorkers.



MSG is the most famous arena in the U.S. (with Staples in 2nd) classic events have events taken place there such as the 1st WrestleMania was held in MSG, Ali vs Frazier 1st match, the famous 2pac and Notorious BIG freestyle took place in MSG, and of course Knicks basketball.

Many players say playing in MSG is different from any other arena. The atmosphere is different from any other arena.

Its called the "Mecca" because of its history and how many people go/want to visit it because of its history.

Maybe if we started calling the United Center the "Mecca" you would have no problem with it:rolleyes:

As the author pointed out.. other areas of the NBA have no need for that.

kobelaughsatall
08-09-2009, 02:00 PM
You were waiting for me to tell you which arena is the "Mecca of Basketball"? Really? :rolleyes:

I wasn't waiting for you to do anything. Your obviously a biased chicago bulls fan, so that says it all. I'm sorry your not gonna get a rise out of me like everyone else. I have read and seen how you interact with everyone, and you don't even make valid arguments yourself. you just try to make people look stupid, but in realiy you just make an *** of yourself.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:01 PM
That's exactly correct. Nowhere in your post Do I see anything about the Success of the Knicks. Which makes complete sense because Mecca has nothing to do with that.

It most def. seems so. Very biased fan that Draco is.

Im not even a Knick fan but this guy Draco is a Hater.

I'm biased and a hater because I agree with the author's position rather than yours? Wow.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 02:02 PM
I don't know how rich in basketball lore other cities might be compared with NYC but that's not really the point of the article. We're talking about MSG.

MSG itself is a dump. But it does have more history than others. The Boston Garden is gone. The Forum, gone. Its one of the few places left that has famous basketball history
And there is no comparison for other cities, at all.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:02 PM
I wasn't waiting for you to do anything. Your obviously a biased chicago bulls fan, so that says it all. I'm sorry your not gonna get a rise out of me like everyone else. I have read and seen how you interact with everyone, and you don't even make valid arguments yourself. you just try to make people look stupid, but in realiy you just make an *** of yourself.

I'm not trying to make people look stupid. They're doing a great job of that all on their own. If intelligent people would join the convo I'd be a lot happier.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 02:03 PM
I'm biased and a hater because I agree with the author's position rather than yours? Wow.

Everyone is biased, they are calling you a hater because your not stating your opinion and only replying with half-answer comments.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:05 PM
MSG itself is a dump. But it does have more history than others. The Boston Garden is gone. The Forum, gone. Its one of the few places left that has famous basketball history
And there is no comparison for other cities, at all.

I dont know.. the article ticks off a lot of that history and it doesn't look all that impressive. Hosting a few NIT tournaments, a couple Knick championships and what else?

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:06 PM
Everyone is biased, they are calling you a hater because your not stating your opinion and only replying with half-answer comments.

They're not asking for my opinion.. They're asking me to make the article simpler for them to understand which I refuse to do. It should be pretty easy for most people to read on their own. At any rate I gave my opinion. I think the writer was persuasive... compared with what I'm reading in this thread, I'm 100% behind the writer.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 02:08 PM
They're not asking for my opinion.. They're asking me to make the article simpler for them to understand which I refuse to do.

They understand the article, they just believe your insulting MSG and not backing up why. Like I said, making a big deal out of nothing based on opinions. It's still the Mecca, doesn't matter what a few others think because for every article that doesn't agree with it there is the opposite.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 02:08 PM
I'm not trying to make people look stupid. They're doing a great job of that all on their own. If intelligent people would join the convo I'd be a lot happier.

Well im pretty sure if anymore came in here they'd leave disappointed because your the one making YOURSELF look stupid.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 02:09 PM
They understand the article, they just believe your insulting MSG and not backing up why. Like I said, making a big deal out of nothing based on opinions. It's still the Mecca, doesn't matter what a few others think because for every article that doesn't agree with it there is the opposite.

Exactly, he doesn't back anything up and for any question we come to him about he only refers the author. Its as if he doesn't understand the article enough to make his OWN argument.

aNYer
08-09-2009, 02:09 PM
Not going to go through this whole thread. Look I get the NIT now is not what it once was but it was considered the championship to set it off. So by focusing soley on what the NIT is now is disrespecting the history that tournament has. MSG has high school championships, College championships, NBA championships. NY street ball is known as 1 of the best in the world, and the fans are considered to have a high sports IQ.
I understand what the last decade has been for the professional team but for such a larger City to be so focused on a sport adds something, for so much history to have taken place there adds to it, and I think I will take MJ, Lebron, Kobe and every other superstar that gushes about the place despite being a visitors opinion over that of some guy who is not involved in highschool, AAU, Prep, JUNCO, NCAA/college, or pro ball other then having an opinion.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:10 PM
They understand the article, they just believe your insulting MSG and not backing up why. Like I said, making a big deal out of nothing based on opinions. It's still the Mecca, doesn't matter what a few others think because for every article that doesn't agree with it there is the opposite.

Ok, you can believe that if you like to save ourselves from arguing over something that has nothing to do with the actual topic.

I'll repeat this however... the "deep down inside you know MSG is the Mecca of Basketball" belief doesn't fly with me. I don't believe I have to explain why.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 02:12 PM
Exactly, he doesn't back anything up and for any question we come to him about he only refers the author. Its as if he doesn't understand the article enough to make his OWN argument.

He isn't going to make an argument because the article is what he bases his opinions on. So instead of just getting pissed off just end the argument, MSG is the Mecca; end of discussion. The opinion of 1 poster and 1 writer from 2006 won't change or belittle Madison Square Garden.
There are civilized ways of discussing topics like this with out name calling, even if one isn't a Knick fan no need to feed into a blatant one sided argument from the original poster.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:12 PM
Not going to go through this whole thread.Look I get the NIT now is not what it once was but it was considered the championship to set it off. So by focusing soley on what the NIT is now is disrespecting the history that tournament has. MSG has high school championships, College championships, NBA championships. NY street ball is known as 1 of the best in the world, and the fans are considered to have a high sports IQ.
I understand what the last decade has been for the professional team but for such a larger City to be so focused on a sport adds something, for so much history to have taken place there adds to it, and I think I will take MJ, Lebron, Kobe and every other superstar that gushes about the place despite being a visitors opinion over that of some guy who is not involved in highschool, AAU, Prep, JUNCO, NCAA/college, or pro ball other then having an opinion.

MSG has high school championships, College championships, NBA championships. are unique to MSG?

IndiansFan337
08-09-2009, 02:13 PM
I have been to MSG.

But I do think it is overrated.

And considering that the Knicks haven't been very relevant over the past decade it is hard to argue that it is a "Mecca".

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:14 PM
He isn't going to make an argument because the article is what he bases his opinions on. So instead of just getting pissed off just end the argument, MSG is the Mecca; end of discussion. The opinion of 1 poster and 1 writer from 2006 won't change or belittle Madison Square Garden.
There are civilized ways of discussing topics like this with out name calling, even if one isn't a Knick fan no need to feed into a blatant one sided argument from the original poster.

Don't know if you've been reading but the dude called me an idiot before I pointed out that he was proving to be one himself.

And incidentally you're missing the point of the article.. which is the reason why the conversation doesn't get off the ground. Why discuss my own thoughts on the subject when I'm conversing with people who don't understand the article.. there's no common ground .

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 02:15 PM
Ok, you can believe that if you like to save ourselves from arguing over something that has nothing to do with the actual topic.

I'll repeat this however... the "deep down inside you know MSG is the Mecca of Basketball" belief doesn't fly with me. I don't believe I have to explain why.

Well what is the topic then?

And saying you don't have to explain why is just a way to avoid stating your take on why. If you don't feel MSG should be known as the Mecca then fine, if you just posted the article for discussion then fine. Just don't continue to say half answers when people are going to ask you on your take.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:17 PM
Well what is the topic then?

And saying you don't have to explain why is just a way to avoid stating your take on why. If you don't feel MSG should be known as the Mecca then fine, if you just posted the article for discussion then fine. Just don't continue to say half answers when people are going to ask you on your take.

Why is it that only Ari is the only person from the Knicks forum who makes a damn lick of sense ;) I mean seriously.. you guys are unbelievable.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 02:18 PM
I dont know.. the article ticks off a lot of that history and it doesn't look all that impressive. Hosting a few NIT tournaments, a couple Knick championships and what else?

It is only an article though. It is an opinion. There have been many more events revolving around basketball held there. The biggest issue is, there isn't a mecca of basketball anymore. The Garden and Forum aren't played in. MSG represents more history on a basketball level than any current arena.
But, I don't feel like debating a subject I don't really care about, haha.

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:22 PM
It is only an article though. It is an opinion. There have been many more events revolving around basketball held there. The biggest issue is, there isn't a mecca of basketball anymore. The Garden and Forum aren't played in. MSG represents more history on a basketball level than any current arena.
But, I don't feel like debating a subject I don't really care about, haha.

I agee about there not being a Mecca of basketball. I was interested in this topic because a lot of Knick fans seem to think that MSG's Mecca status is going to bring FAs.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 02:24 PM
Why is it that only Ari is the only person from the Knicks forum who makes a damn lick of sense ;) I mean seriously.. you guys are unbelievable.

What is there to make sense about?

The author is saying the Knicks haven't warranted the prestige title of "Mecca of Basketball" because Boston,LA,Chicago,SanAntonio have had championship success compared to NY who only has 2.

He feels that The World's Most Famour Arena is better suited but not the Mecca. So you agree with this and posted this.

What is there to make sense about I ask again?

NY is one of the oldest teams in the NBA, has a very rich history despite what you say and basketball is everything in NY. If Championships won at a place defined a Mecca Boston would hold it but it doesn.t More to basketball than just championships. Again, I'm not arguing with you but don't say Knick fans don't make sense.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 02:25 PM
I agee about there not being a Mecca of basketball. I was interested in this topic because a lot of Knick fans seem to think that MSG's Mecca status is going to bring FAs.

There is more to attracting FA's then where you play. It's the ultimate win-now atmosphere that makes it great. It's not all we are relying on.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 02:27 PM
I agee about there not being a Mecca of basketball. I was interested in this topic because a lot of Knick fans seem to think that MSG's Mecca status is going to bring FAs.

they have 2 things that can bring them FA's. Mike D, and endorsement opportunities. The NYC nightlife and atmosphere help as well. But I think Knick fans are going to be a little upset at what they haul in next summer.

D-Amazins
08-09-2009, 02:30 PM
What is there to make sense about?

The author is saying the Knicks haven't warranted the prestige title of "Mecca of Basketball" because Boston,LA,Chicago,SanAntonio have had championship success compared to NY who only has 2.

He feels that The World's Most Famour Arena is better suited but not the Mecca. So you agree with this and posted this.

What is there to make sense about I ask again?

NY is one of the oldest teams in the NBA, has a very rich history despite what you say and basketball is everything in NY. If Championships won at a place defined a Mecca Boston would hold it but it doesn.t More to basketball than just championships. Again, I'm not arguing with you but don't say Knick fans don't make sense.

He's not going to be able to answer you that question because obviously none of us UNDERSTAND the article.

YET once again, Mecca has nothing to do with success. But he continues to state that I obviously dont understand yet I clearly read what he quoted and brought up a very valid argument that he simply cannot beat.

But no, we are the ones that do not understand. :rolleyes:

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:39 PM
they have 2 things that can bring them FA's. Mike D, and endorsement opportunities. The NYC nightlife and atmosphere help as well. But I think Knick fans are going to be a little upset at what they haul in next summer.

Players might like the run and gun offense because it's fun to play but they also know the Knicks don't play D and that D wins championships. I'm not sure Mike D is going to be much of a selling point.

Nightlife and atmosphere might help but who knows what players are looking for in that area. Miami might be more appealing or Chicago might be just as appealing.

aNYer
08-09-2009, 02:40 PM
High school championships, college championships and NBA championships are unique to MSG?

Way to point out 1 point but yes, for as long as it has been for as many stars as have played there, no one else can say that.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 02:43 PM
Players might like the run and gun offense because it's fun to play but they also know the Knicks don't play D and that D wins championships. I'm not sure Mike D is going to be much of a selling point.

Nightlife and atmosphere might help but who knows what players are looking for in that area. Miami might be more appealing or Chicago might be just as appealing.

which is why I said, NY fans will be disappointed next summer. I can't see why its attractive for LeBron, Wade, etc. Mikes system has been all offense, but the fact is, he has never had the personal to play defense. So it isn't all his fault.
And I agree, Miami, LA, Chicago, and NY. Those are the cities with the best nightlife, stereotypically. That has something to do with it.

Missing56&33
08-09-2009, 02:43 PM
M.S.G.: Stop Calling it The Basketball Mecca

Madison Square Garden is The Mecca of Basketball.......MSG The Mecca of Basket ball welcomes Lebron James

Draco
08-09-2009, 02:45 PM
Way to point out 1 point but yes, for as long as it has been for as many stars as have played there, no one else can say that.

I don't think I missed anything else in that post that was worth responding to.

I can't think of any stars that came through NY's colleges and high schools and I like to think of myself as a serious bball fan. Hell, you can probably mention some famous names but high school and college ball doesn't exactly make me think of MSG as a Mecca of Basketball.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 02:50 PM
I don't think I missed anything else in that post that was worth responding to.

I can't think of any stars that came through NY's colleges and high schools and I like to think of myself as a serious bball fan. Hell, you can probably mention some famous names but high school and college ball doesn't exactly make me think of MSG as a Mecca of Basketball.

Felpe Lopez, Stephon Marbury, Sebastian Telfair, Royal Ivey, cmon man!

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:01 PM
Way to point out 1 point but yes, for as long as it has been for as many stars as have played there, no one else can say that.

Actually you made another interesting point but I already posted about it here
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10475687&postcount=65

I'd rather not repeat my opinions for people who didn't read the thread and in your case you admitted as much.

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:03 PM
Felpe Lopez, Stephon Marbury, Sebastian Telfair, Royal Ivey, cmon man!

D Rose played some games at the United Center. Deron Williams might have as well.

Hawkeye15
08-09-2009, 03:07 PM
D Rose played some games at the United Center. Deron Williams might have as well.

whats funny is, Deron was the 3rd best player on his college team. Funny how things work out

smith&wesson
08-09-2009, 03:18 PM
new york is the mecca of every thing.. if they want to promote ballet they wiil say its the mecca of ballet, its whatever they are marketing a the time because msg is home to some of the biggest events that take place any where. thus resulting in the image that its the mecca because in new york every thing is on a huge scale. they have 5 times the amount of ppl of any other city pretty much. its all marketing you guys are looking too deep in to this. the athur of the article had nothing else to write about, writers write articles like this to draw up attention when they have nothing else interesting to talk about.

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:22 PM
new york is the mecca of every thing.. if they want to promote ballet they wiil say its the mecca of ballet, its whatever they are marketing a the time because msg is home to some of the biggest events that take place any where. thus resulting in the image that its the mecca because in new york every thing is on a huge scale. they have 5 times the amount of ppl of any other city pretty much. its all marketing you guys are looking too deep in to this. the athur of the article had nothing else to write about, writers write articles like this to draw up attention when they have nothing else interesting to talk about.

A better argument can probably be made for the "Mecca of ballet, finance, theater, etc" and that's what the author suggests. But the label doesn't fit the history of basketball at MSG. No one's looking deeper than they have to to make that argument. The author simply gives a whole lot of reasons to support his opinion.

Giaps
08-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Somebody's sipping the kool-aid. It's annoying that people jump on the bashing bandwagon because it's 'fashionable' at the time.

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:28 PM
It's annoying when people can't understand a simple article to begin a topic of discussion. It's also annoying when people think that an unpopular opinion is considered bashing. It's not at all surprising.. but it is damn annoying.

Giaps
08-09-2009, 03:32 PM
Why did MJ, LBJ, Kobe, Wade etc etc etc all use the words 'The Mecca of Basketball'? It's not because it's been hyped... you can choose not to say it, but they did. It's why players love to put on a show there more than any other arena. It's not so much the arena as it is the arena and NY City together. They go hand in hand... the history, the bright lights of Broadway, the people's deep knowledge about all things basketball... it's name is warranted.

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Why did MJ, LBJ, Kobe, Wade etc etc etc all use the words 'The Mecca of Basketball'? It's not because it's been hyped... you can choose not to say it, but they did. It's why players love to put on a show there more than any other arena. It's not so much the arena as it is the arena and NY City together. They go hand in hand... the history, the bright lights of Broadway, the people's deep knowledge about all things basketball... it's name is warranted.

Been discussed in the article.. been discussed by me, twice. Why bother repeating for a third time. Although I do think that's probably the only good point I've seen brought up by people who take your position.

DCB/LAL
08-09-2009, 03:35 PM
Excerpt from a lengthy article. Worth reading the entire piece rather than posting a response to just this excerpt.

http://www.thefanzine.com/articles/sport/58/m.s.g.-_stop_calling_it_the_basketball_mecca/1

Come on man dont take the one thing Knicks fans got going for them......this gives them hope that they'll get a superstar based only on their rep for being the "mecca" of basketball!!


Any who i really wouldn't call MSG the "mecca" of basketball i would just call it the "mecca" altough i would call New York City the "mecca of basketball". It is a very historic arena but its not only known for basketball its known in pretty much every sport boxing, wrestling, hockey, etc....

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:38 PM
Come on man dont take the one thing Knicks fans got going for them......this gives them hope that they'll get a superstar based only on their rep for being the "mecca" of basketball!!


Any who i really wouldn't call MSG the "mecca" of basketball i would just call it the "mecca" altough i would call New York City the "mecca of basketball". It is a very historic arena but its not only known for basketball its known in pretty much every sport boxing, wrestling, hockey, etc....

I'm not taking it away.. they're going to believe what they want through whatever mental gymnastics they have to use. Yeah, I agree that MSG has some interesting history but it ain't no Mecca.

SeoulBeatz
08-09-2009, 03:43 PM
heck it's better than the izod center. anything better would be a mecca in my book and yeah... pretty much any arena is better than that dingy box.

yeah the izod center is probably the worst stadium ive ever been to. man i went there last year and it just looks sooo bland. i dont know if it was the lighting or something, there didnt seem to be too many diehard fans either. i was there for a boston nets game and i could have sworn the boston fans outnumbered the nets fans.

Trouble87
08-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Article came out in 06 and this is being posted now....

why?

what was the point of this?

it isn't going to be thought provoking or create any type of sensible discussion

only thing this article is going to do is bring the NY haters out... good that you found this article so you can rally them together

if ever a thread should be closed, its this one

Draco
08-09-2009, 03:47 PM
Article came out in 06 and this is being posted now....

why?

what was the point of this?

it isn't going to be thought provoking or create any type of sensible discussion

only thing this article is going to do is bring the NY haters out... good that you found this article so you can rally them together

if ever a thread should be closed, its this one

How many times does it have to be stated that the period of time between 2006 and 2009 doesn't alter the point being made in the article.

Answer: as many times as people who either didn't read or didn't understand the article bring up this question.

It isn't going to be thought provoking? That's hilarious coming from someone who didn't read/understand the article.

Kevj77
08-09-2009, 04:00 PM
Well people like MJ, Kobe and Lebron love to play at the MSG. They go off when they go there because its special for them. Of course the Knicks aren't that great. Their history pales in comparison to the Celtics or Lakers. From a arena and market standpoint who wouldn't want to play at MSG. Of course that isn't the only factor, winning is a huge one, which is why people will always chose the Lakers or Celtics over the Knicks, but that isn't because of MSG.

Trouble87
08-09-2009, 04:03 PM
How many times does it have to be stated that the period of time between 2006 and 2009 doesn't alter the point being made in the article.

Answer: as many times as people who either didn't read or didn't understand the article bring up this question.

It isn't going to be thought provoking? That's hilarious coming from someone who didn't read/understand the article.

who are you to make the bold assumption that I didn't read/understand it?

the article is old and I don't see a reason to drudge it up...

this is just another excuse to hate on NY, MSG, and the Knicks

If knocking MSG makes you feel better about yourself and your city.... feel free to

Knicks have been atrocious these last few years but it doesn't take away from the rich history of basketball in NY/MSG

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:07 PM
who are you to make the bold assumption that I didn't read/understand it?

the article is old and I don't see a reason to drudge it up...

this is just another excuse to hate on NY, MSG, and the Knicks

If knocking MSG makes you feel better about yourself and your city.... feel free to

Knicks have been atrocious these last few years but it doesn't take away from the rich history of basketball in NY/MSG

It wasn't an assumption. If you think the authors opinion can be discounted because the article was written in 2006 then you either didnt read or you didnt understand the article. It's one of the two.

Suggesting that MSG ain't a Mecca isn't knocking MSG.

NY4YA
08-09-2009, 04:12 PM
Really this poster hates the knicks. We all know this. We all debated with him. The hate is soo stong he digs up 3 year old articles to post on the forum about a freaggin Knick name. All the knicks fans know how strong the basketball culture is here. We all know how packed and loud our arena is even when we have had back to back to back losing seasons. The fan support alone makes us the mecca of basketball. We have the most fans on this forum with losing seasons. So if you think we are not the mecca thats fine. Knicks fans just have to remember its coming from a place of hate. They hate that even when we suck we are still talked about and still relevant. So thanks for keeping us relevant.

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:14 PM
Really this poster hates the knicks. We all know this. We all debated with him. The hate is soo stong he digs up 3 year old articles to post on the forum about a freaggin Knick name. All the knicks fans know how strong the basketball culture is here. We all know how packed and loud our arena is even when we have had back to back to back losing seasons. The fan support alone makes us the mecca of basketball. We have the most fans on this forum with losing seasons. So if you think we are not the mecca thats fine. Knicks fans just have to remember its coming from a place of hate. They hate that even when we suck we are still talked about and still relevant. So thanks for keeping us relevant.

The reality is that you and other Knick fans fail at reading comprehension, common sense and reasoning.

madiaz3
08-09-2009, 04:18 PM
You didn't read the article.. the author had been living in NYC for 5 years when he wrote the article.

Oh 5 years, really the same as growing up there!

madiaz3
08-09-2009, 04:25 PM
Draco. Just stop. All of the greatest players repeatedly talk about MSG being the Mecca of basketball. Did you see Kobe at his first all-star game at the Garden? Every great brings their best to play there, every great respects it. Then you attempt to be witty and funny with cheap shots as to why Jason Kidd didn't sign with New York? You know it has absolutely no correlation.

So one writer wrote an article that is gospel to you, great to hear! You're not going to convince anyone otherwise that already did not have a predisposition against NY and the Knicks. Do you think maybe people will read this and say, you know what, let's not call it the mecca of basketball, how about Chicago? Keep dreaming.

Why were you looking through three year old articles anyway? (Whether or not it knocks the credibility of the article or not doesn't matter.)

Trouble87
08-09-2009, 04:25 PM
I don't think the authors opinion is any less valid because of when it was written

I think its ridiculous that you would post it in the NBA forum 3 years 4 months 11 days after it originally published online

you would think that if it was important it would've been talked about before now...

yes I do see it as knocking MSG when you try to downplay its importance in the basketball community

the article was written by Adam Underhill... who is he and what makes his 5 page rant important to anyone but him?

http://www.thefanzine.com/contributors/1/44

^ lil bio on Adam Underhill... he's not even a legit sports writer

Underhill is just another schmuck with a opinion, this whole thread is based on a rant from someone who seems like a casual basketball fan

USELESS

Trouble87
08-09-2009, 04:29 PM
The reality is that you and other Knick fans fail at reading comprehension, common sense and reasoning.

just because some people didn't interpret that article the same way you did doesn't mean they fail at reading comprehension, common sense and reasoning

we don't agree with you, doesn't mean you have to insult us or resort to questioning our intelligence

try to show the same respect we give you

madiaz3
08-09-2009, 04:31 PM
I agee about there not being a Mecca of basketball. I was interested in this topic because a lot of Knick fans seem to think that MSG's Mecca status is going to bring FAs.

Ah, nevermind. The entire reason behind this thread afterall. Just continued attempts to belittle the city and another one of your "get real New Yorkers" statements. We get it, you want Wade or Lebron to play with Rose, and anyone suggesting NY as another destination is just a bit annoying to hear. Don't try and attempt to say you actually wanted to debate it's mecca status for one minute...lol (Even though that quote plainly puts you acknowledging that it still holds mecca status.)

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:32 PM
Oh 5 years, really the same as growing up there!

5, 20, does it matter? The post about 5 years was in response to a Knick fan who mistakenly complained "the author obviously has never been to NYC."

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:34 PM
just because some people didn't interpret that article the same way you did doesn't mean they fail at reading comprehension, common sense and reasoning

we don't agree with you, doesn't mean you have to insult us or resort to questioning our intelligence

try to show the same respect we give you

this isn't something like a metaphorical passage in the bible that's open to interpretation. :rolleyes: The article makes a precise statement and backs it up with precise points.

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:35 PM
I don't think the authors opinion is any less valid because of when it was written

I think its ridiculous that you would post it in the NBA forum 3 years 4 months 11 days after it originally published online

you would think that if it was important it would've been talked about before now...

yes I do see it as knocking MSG when you try to downplay its importance in the basketball community

the article was written by Adam Underhill... who is he and what makes his 5 page rant important to anyone but him?

http://www.thefanzine.com/contributors/1/44

^ lil bio on Adam Underhill... he's not even a legit sports writer

Underhill is just another schmuck with a opinion, this whole thread is based on a rant from someone who seems like a casual basketball fan

USELESS

Yeah, well.. Underhill's opinion is well researched, well articulated and reasonable. Your opinion and every other Knick's fan opinion in this thread is the exact opposite of that.

SeoulBeatz
08-09-2009, 04:36 PM
umm YOU dont see what its like on the streets of Detroit

lol what does that have to do with anything?

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:36 PM
Draco. Just stop. All of the greatest players repeatedly talk about MSG being the Mecca of basketball. Did you see Kobe at his first all-star game at the Garden? Every great brings their best to play there, every great respects it. Then you attempt to be witty and funny with cheap shots as to why Jason Kidd didn't sign with New York? You know it has absolutely no correlation.

Yeah, and if I had a dime for every time I responded to "but MJ, Lebron, and Kobe said such and such..." I'd be a rich man. I'll leave you to dig up those posts.. and I'll leave it to you to reread the article to find the passage where the author responds to what stars say.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Yeah, and if I had a dime for every time I responded to "but MJ, Lebron, and Kobe said such and such..." I'd be a rich man.

That's a poor response, you justify the author's point but not the actual stars who've played their and stated this.

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:41 PM
That's a poor response, you justify the author's point but not the actual stars who've played their and stated this.

Uh.. not it's not. It means that I've already given my opinion about this (several times) and so has the author. If you want to address what the author wrote or what I wrote then that's a different story.

29$JerZ
08-09-2009, 04:43 PM
Uh.. not it's not. It means that I've already answered this and so has the author. If you want to address what the author said or what I said then that's a different story.

You keep down playing everyone who is saying MSG is the Mecca of basketball using the article and your opinion. Players have said it as well yet you make no arguement for them. All your doing is reciting the same half answers from when this thread was started. You redirect their opinions saying read the article, etc but that is going nowhere nor does it make any sense since neither side has anything to gain from it. You either think its the Mecca or you don't, enough with the half answers.

OG "Dee" LOCc
08-09-2009, 04:44 PM
One question, Draco. How did you even find this article....did you look up "MSG: Mecca of basketball" or something? When you found the article and read it, did you think once that when you posted it Knicks fans would feel insulted? Or was it your intent to rile up knicks fans. (BTW, thats trolling) Honestly, did you think a peaceful discussion was going to happen when you posted something that insults NY, MSG, knicks fans, etc? Obviously not. Do yourself a favor man, take a breather, exit out of your internet browser. Watch some tv, do something other than continually argue online, on a sports forum. Or, you can continue being tough on the internet...:)

Trouble87
08-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Yeah, well.. Underhill's opinion is well researched, well articulated and reasonable. Your opinion and every other Knick's fan opinion in this thread is the exact opposite of that.

I don't have the time or the patience to put together random MSG facts that will help establish my point. I don't even think it would matter, trying to debate this with you is more useless than you posting this article

your a model of what the perfect Knick hater should be... I commend you on that

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:46 PM
You keep down playing everyone who is saying MSG is the Mecca of basketball using the article and your opinion. Players have said it as well yet you make no arguement for them. All your doing is reciting the same half answers from when this thread was started. You redirect their opinions saying read the article, etc but that is going nowhere nor does it make any sense since neither side has anything to gain from it. You either think its the Mecca or you don't, enough with the half answers.

Make no argument? Actually I said it was a good point. I also added my own opinion to the authors opinion about this subject and it's written in several posts sprinked throughout the thread..

BkOriginalOne
08-09-2009, 04:47 PM
It's the birthplace of streetball and Jordan.
It's sacred... just.. shhhh.

Beltrans Mole
08-09-2009, 04:50 PM
new york being coined as "the mecca of basketball" goes way beyond the nba and the knicks at msg. its the street ball legends that became famous icons all over the city, as well. sure, the knicks have been as bad as any team in the past 10 years now...but just becuase they have been "irrelevent" does not mean that the mecca of basketball should be moved to a different city. once the knicks starting winning again, you will understand why it was given the nickname in the first place. they hold the draft in nyc every year for a reason.

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:52 PM
One question, Draco. How did you even find this article....did you look up "MSG: Mecca of basketball" or something? When you found the article and read it, did you think once that when you posted it Knicks fans would feel insulted? Or was it your intent to rile up knicks fans. (BTW, thats trolling) Honestly, did you think a peaceful discussion was going to happen when you posted something that insults NY, MSG, knicks fans, etc? Obviously not. Do yourself a favor man, take a breather, exit out of your internet browser. Watch some tv, do something other than continually argue online, on a sports forum. Or, you can continue being tough on the internet...:)

Ok, here's how it went.. grab some popcorn and pull up a seat.

I've noticed that in a lot of 2010 FA threads throughout the forum and over a period of time that Knick fans seem to think that MSG's status as "Mecca" is going to help bring FAs. Maybe the roster isn't talented enough to lure a FA; don't worry because NY is the "Mecca". Or maybe despite the salary cap space, the money isn't an incentive because the Cavs, Heat, Raptors or whomever can re-sign their stars to a better contract; don't worry because NY is the "Mecca". It's kind of laughable to see it brought up so often. So it begs the question.. is NY really as relevant as NYer's think? The article convinced me, no. I thought it was a good topic for discussion in the forum.

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:54 PM
It's the birthplace of streetball and Jordan.
It's sacred... just.. shhhh.

Well, if Jordon were born at MSG you might have a point to add to your position.

OG "Dee" LOCc
08-09-2009, 04:55 PM
Ok, here's how it went.. grab some popcorn and pull up a seat.

I've noticed that in a lot of 2010 FA threads throughout the forum and over a period of time that Knick fans seem to think that MSG's status as "Mecca" is going to help bring FAs. Maybe the roster isn't talented enough to lure a FA; don't worry because NY is the "Mecca". Or maybe despite the salary cap space, the money isn't an incentive because the Cavs, Heat, Raptors or whomever can re-sign their stars to a better contract; don't worry because NY is the "Mecca". It's kind of laughable to see it brought up so often. So it begs the question.. is NY really as relevant as NYer's think? The article convinced me, no. I thought it was a good topic for discussion in the forum.

Well, it obviously wasn't if theres 11 pages of arguing.
Maybe you should have posted it on some forum where the majority of fans aren't knicks fans.

edit: I meant aren't not are.

Beltrans Mole
08-09-2009, 04:57 PM
so you are trying to argue that a player wouldnt want to play in ny if he were a free agent that could choose from numerous cities to play in? thats just ridiculous man. what big star wouldnt want to bring a championship to nyc? especially since the knicks have been awful for so long...you cant tell me that its not on the minds of the some of the bigger free agents of 2010...

Draco
08-09-2009, 04:58 PM
I don't have the time or the patience to put together random MSG facts that will help establish my point. I don't even think it would matter, trying to debate this with you is more useless than you posting this article

your a model of what the perfect Knick hater should be... I commend you on that

And you're an example of one of many Knick fans in this thread who fail to understand what's being discussed and resort to Ad hom's; "you're just a hater"

arkanian215
08-09-2009, 04:59 PM
most nets fans dont go to games because they're overpriced, the owner doesnt care about winning, it's hard to get to the izod center, rebuilding, "not a frontrunner", too broke (like me), or would rather stare at the players rather than the ****hole arena.

i guarantee there are gonna be a lot of bandwagon fans soon. especially if we manage to land a big name FA.

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:00 PM
Well, it obviously wasn't if theres 11 pages of arguing.
Maybe you should have posted it on some forum where the majority of fans aren't knicks fans.

edit: I meant aren't not are.

Yeah no kidding.. 11 pages of arguing over reading comprehension.. friggin ridiculous. But it's not like I put this in the Knicks forum. The NBA forum should have been Ok.

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:01 PM
so you are trying to argue that a player wouldnt want to play in ny if he were a free agent that could choose from numerous cities to play in? thats just ridiculous man. what big star wouldnt want to bring a championship to nyc? especially since the knicks have been awful for so long...you cant tell me that its not on the minds of the some of the bigger free agents of 2010...

Uh, no. That's not the topic at all......

LA_Raiders
08-09-2009, 05:09 PM
Ever been in LA? I used to play from 5pm to 9pm every day...and guess what? all courts were packed...

Too bad the Knicks play there they really suck for a while...

Just because is an old building gets that naming?...MSG Mecca? No way...

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 05:15 PM
Oy vey. You could just google the word to know that you've missed the mark.

Here:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Mecca

Who cares what they call themselves? Should I start a thread about Lebron James and state why I think he should not be called "KING JAMES"? Since we all know he does not fit the description of a king....

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/king

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:23 PM
Who cares what they call themselves? Should I start a thread about Lebron James and state why I think he should not be called "KING JAMES"? Since we all know he does not fit the description of a king....

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/king

Lets see...this one seems to fit:


3 : one that holds a preeminent position; especially : a chief among competitors

So yeah, good luck with that thread.

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 05:23 PM
Well, it obviously wasn't if theres 11 pages of arguing.
Maybe you should have posted it on some forum where the majority of fans aren't knicks fans.

edit: I meant aren't not are.

You had it right the first time. "aren't not" makes no sense. Aren't is a contraction of are not. You should edit your edit.

NYCkid12
08-09-2009, 05:34 PM
:laugh:

Was this really written on 3/29/06? This was written when the Isiah era started.

This articles irrelevant. So, he's taking the literal definition of Mecca and saying it doesn't fit because we're not as good anymore? Good for you.

New York is the center of the basketball world, regardless of our history. The argument that MSG should be stripped of the title "Mecca" based on our 2006 play is a weak one.

MSG will always be the Mecca and sooner than some think, the Knicks will be back to making it fit, exactly as the center of activity of people sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.


i agree this article is ********...you can do this with almost anything....so that means you shouldnt call the palace of auburn hills a "palace" because its not literally a palace...cmon gimme a break this guy is nit picking here

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:36 PM
i agree this article is ********...you can do this with almost anything....so that means you shouldnt call the palace of auburn hills a "palace" because its not literally a palace...cmon gimme a break this guy is nit picking here

Maybe if it weren't the official name of the stadium you'd have a point. Actually you still wouldn't have a point since the name isn't suggestive of anything about the basketball culture at that arena.. whatever, Ya fail. No soup for you! NEXT!

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 05:38 PM
Lets see...this one seems to fit:



So yeah, good luck with that thread.

When has he ever had a preeminent position? He has played in Cleveland his entire career. Missed the playoffs more than once, made the finals once and did not win a game. If that is a preeminent position, I don't want one.

And if he is the chief among-st competitors, would he be the Sitting Bull of chiefs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting_Bull

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:39 PM
When has he ever had a preeminent position? He has played in Cleveland his entire career. Missed the playoffs more than once, made the finals once and did not win a game. If that is a preeminent position, I don't want one.

And if he is the chief among-st competitors, would he be the Sitting Bull of chiefs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitting_Bull

King James.. face of the NBA. :D

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 05:42 PM
King James.. face of the NBA. :D

Madison Square Garden, the Mecca of Basketball:D

NY4YA
08-09-2009, 05:45 PM
The reality is that you and other Knick fans fail at reading comprehension, common sense and reasoning.

and you fail at everything else

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:46 PM
Madison Square Garden, the Mecca of Basketball:D

Well, you can make your argument that LBJ isn't the face of the NBA but what does it really matter to me? I'm not going to try to defend that label. I have no interest in that argument. There might be some people who are interested. So if you'd like go ahead and make that thread.

I'll tell ya what I won't do.. I won't complain about it. :D

Draco
08-09-2009, 05:52 PM
and you fail at everything else

Wow.. and with that statement I guess I just have to remember that you're coming from a place of hate... :rolleyes:

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Well, you can make your argument that LBJ isn't the face of the NBA but what does it really matter to me? I'm not going to try to defend that label. I have no interest in that argument. There might be some people who are interested. So if you'd like go ahead and make that thread.

I was just showing you, anyone can give a nickname to anything they want. And you dont have to start a thread about it because it does not coincide with Websters definition of the word. It would be like me starting a thread stating "Magic Johnson is not actually Magic. He only made a couple nice passes" If you dont believe me, take a look at the definition of the word "Magic" :rolleyes:

This is a serious question, do you have an inferiority complex? You hate the Knicks and the city of New York, thats obvious. You hate Kobe and the Lakers. You hate the Celtics. Pretty much, you hate anything that posses a threat to the Bulls, Jordan, or the stature of the city of Chicago.

P.S. The sad thing is, I actually agree with you on the thread topic. I just see your name, and get into argument mode. :)

Draco
08-09-2009, 06:01 PM
I was just showing you, anyone can give a nickname to anything they want. And you dont have to start a thread about it because it does not coincide with Websters definition of the word. It would be like me starting a thread stating "Magic Johnson is not actually Magic. He only made a couple nice passes" If you dont believe me, take a look at the definition of the word "Magic" :rolleyes:

Ok so the response to the edited post:

Magic's fans would argue that his basketball skill fit the description of this definition of Magic:

a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source

If there was overwhelming evidence that Johnson simply made a couple nice passes then I guess we could start a thread about that too.

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 06:03 PM
Except that Magic's nickname is a well deserved honor probably bestowed upon him by someone other than Ervin Johnson. "Mecca of Basketball" is a well deserved honot and it's perpetuated indirectly by the franchise and directly by the fanbase. As the the author points out it's aggrandizing BS.

Read the edited part of my post above.^^

Draco
08-09-2009, 06:04 PM
Read the edited part of my post above.^^

And reread my edited post.

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 06:09 PM
Except that Magic's nickname is a well deserved honor probably bestowed upon him by someone other than Ervin Johnson. "Mecca of Basketball" is not a well deserved honor for MSG and it's perpetuated indirectly by the franchise and directly by the fanbase. As the the author points out it's aggrandizing BS.



Bringing up an unpopular opinion doesn't mean I hate the Knicks, but nice try. And to answer your question, I don't have an inferiority complex? Did you at one time? People who take roids usually tend to have an inferiority complex. That's not a poke at you, just the truth.

Just the truth? Can you back that statement up with some facts? Did Barry Bonds seem to have an inferiority complex? Sammy Sosa? Manny Ramirez? A Rod? All those guys seem to be pretty sure of themselves. And to answer your question honestly, no. I'm not jealous of anyone. And I dont feel sad when someone is better or more important than me. Except maybe Jessica Alba's husband. I guess I do have a complex

Draco
08-09-2009, 06:12 PM
For some reason this post got messed up .. I think I wrote over one of my older posts instead of starting a fresh one.. so here it is.

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10479117&postcount=179

Draco
08-09-2009, 06:15 PM
[/B]

Just the truth? Can you back that statement up with some facts? Did Barry Bonds seem to have an inferiority complex? Sammy Sosa? Manny Ramirez? A Rod? All those guys seem to be pretty sure of themselves. And to answer your question honestly, no. I'm not jealous of anyone. And I dont feel sad when someone is better or more important than me. Except maybe Jessica Alba's husband. I guess I do have a complex

I had non-pro's in mind but speaking of pro's.. sure, their inferiority complex can be explained by how they see themselves in comparison to their competition. Facts on the inferiority complex? No, take my word for it or don't.. it's too much of a tangent to the thread topic and not really important to me. Hell, if wrong about it then fine.. and back to the topic.

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-09-2009, 06:20 PM
I had non-pro's in mind but speaking of pro's.. sure, their inferiority complex can be explained by how they see themselves in comparison to their competition. Facts on the inferiority complex? No, take my word for it or don't.. it's too much of a tangent to the thread topic and not really important to me. Hell, if wrong about it then fine.. and back to the topic.

Fine, back to the topic. If you dont want MSG to have the title of "Mecca" who would you want to have it? The team may suck now, and they may not have the History of the Celtics or Lakers, but it is one of the oldest basketball venues in the league. I have heard Kobe and Lebron say they get amped up to play there. So maybe players do want to play there. But by the looks of their free agent signings over the years, maybe they only want to play there for one or two nights out of the year.

Draco
08-09-2009, 06:27 PM
Fine, back to the topic. If you dont want MSG to have the title of "Mecca" who would you want to have it? The team may suck now, and they may not have the History of the Celtics or Lakers, but it is one of the oldest basketball venues in the league. I have heard Kobe and Lebron say they get amped up to play there. So maybe players do want to play there. But by the looks of their free agent signings over the years, maybe they only want to play there for one or two nights out of the year.

Since the point of the thread wasn't to nominate the best candidate for "Mecca of Basketball" I'm not prepared to answer that question. So offhand, I'll suggest that no franchise deserves that label.

Yes, I recognize that the Knicks are one of the oldest franchises with a lot of history and I think the article did a good job in putting that in perspective by comparison with other franchises.. I agree with the author that nice things said about MSG are kind of cliche and that athletes aren't encouraged to say anything controversial. So if they're asked, "are you psyched about playing at MSG".. answer is probably going to be positive. Really, I think when Kobe says he likes playing at MSG.. I have to wonder if he's just not parroting what MJ once said.

MSG34
08-09-2009, 08:00 PM
EXACTLYYYYY.

It wasnt just named the Mecca recently. Everyone knows the Knicks stink right now so just another article to trash them.

I have lived in NY for almost 20 years now. Born & Raised.

What you people fail to understand is that MSG is not only for the Knicks. It has seen some of the MOST HISTORICAL events in history. Boxing, Concerts,...ETC.

Thank you

MSG34
08-09-2009, 08:05 PM
Yes, I recognize that the Knicks are one of the oldest franchises with a lot of history and I think the article did a good job in putting that in perspective by comparison with other franchises.. I agree with the author that nice things said about MSG are kind of cliche and that athletes aren't encouraged to say anything controversial. So if they're asked, "are you psyched about playing at MSG".. answer is probably going to be positive. Really, I think when Kobe says he likes playing at MSG.. I have to wonder if he's just not parroting what MJ once said.

But what does history have to do with it

Maybe you didn't read the article...

:laugh: Yeah, Kobe really isn't amped to play at MSG


Remember, a ‘mecca’ is defined, besides as an actual place in Saudi Arabia, as “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.

Draco
08-09-2009, 08:17 PM
But what does history have to do with it

Maybe you didn't read the article...

:laugh: Yeah, Kobe really isn't amped to play at MSG

I did read the article... If you don't think the author mentions MSG history, ya missed something.

I have an idea I think will work for you. Go through the thread and find every post written by a Knick fan and respond to it with some sort of gratifying or confirming post.

We're going in circles dude... haven been for a while. So, enjoy.

aNYer
08-09-2009, 08:29 PM
I don't think I missed anything else in that post that was worth responding to.

I can't think of any stars that came through NY's colleges and high schools and I like to think of myself as a serious bball fan. Hell, you can probably mention some famous names but high school and college ball doesn't exactly make me think of MSG as a Mecca of Basketball.

I am saying this as someone who realizes you post in the knicks forum and you usually don't just bait when you troll in there so I don't have a problem with you. that is one of the DUMBEST things I have heard in a long time.

Of coarse it matters, and if college don't matter to you then oh well, thats why its not up to you to decide on these basketball. If Jordan Lebron Wade and all these stars new and old have rave reviews that means nothing to you because you some biased bull fan says so, ok.

I don't even care if you agree but the point is there is merit to all this and all the points I made and you are just being a dismissive ******* based on nothing but your opinion which excludes college high school and pros. If I EVER EVER agree with you on something over Mike, over Lebron, over Pat, over the hundreds of stars that pointed out that there is some thing special about the arena then I will give you $100 cause I think people that dedicated there lives to this sport have more validity to their statements.

So don't call it the Mecca, it doesn't come up that much in your life unless you listen to pros coaches retired players, commentators analysts and others heavily involved in basketball and even then its only brought up so often.

Draco
08-09-2009, 08:33 PM
I am saying this as someone who realizes you post in the knicks forum and you usually don't just bait when you troll in there so I don't have a problem with you. that is one of the DUMBEST things I have heard in a long time.

Of coarse it matters, and if college don't matter to you then oh well, thats why its not up to you to decide on these basketball. If Jordan Lebron Wade and all these stars new and old have rave reviews that means nothing to you because you some biased bull fan says so, ok.

I don't even care if you agree but the point is there is merit to all this and all the points I made and you are just being a dismissive ******* based on nothing but your opinion which excludes college high school and pros. If I EVER EVER agree with you on something over Mike, over Lebron, over Pat, over the hundreds of stars that pointed out that there is some thing special about the arena then I will give you $100 cause I think people that dedicated there lives to this sport have more validity to their statements.

So don't call it the Mecca, it doesn't come up that much in your life unless you listen to pros coaches retired players, commentators analysts and others heavily involved in basketball and even then its only brought up so often.

How many times do I have to state that MJ, Lebron, Kobe enjoying playing at MSG is a good point? Ya got a good point. (in some ways.. I still think Lebron and Kobe are paroting the words of those that came before.. and I think it's become a cliche because stars are encouraged to say positive things) but hell, it's still a better point than anything else I've seen in this thread. So Yippee! Let the celebration begin. ;)

Oh wait.. I don't want to not acknowledge college games and have you accuse me of dismissing your post. Yes, I will suspend my better judgement and just assume that NYC has the best high school and college talent in the nation. All the best players play in MSG! Yippe!! We agree.

J4KOP99
08-09-2009, 08:34 PM
Madison Square Garden is Mecca. Plain and simple.


There is a reason it is refferred to as that and it is not only knicks fans who call it by that name. Who honestly cares what one guy thinks about it? Say what you want defending your article but there is no way you are going to sway the majority opinion.

Yes, maybe right now it shouldn't be called the Basketball Mecca but over it's history, there are thousands of reasons for it to be considered with such high praise. If you want to continue sticking with your boy who wrote this article, go ahead but trying to argue something like this will never work.

I'm sorry it isn't exactly what the definition says a "Mecca" should be but if you(or the author) are going to say MSG isn't the basketball mecca then you better have an idea of what is.

aNYer
08-09-2009, 08:36 PM
Fine, back to the topic. If you dont want MSG to have the title of "Mecca" who would you want to have it? The team may suck now, and they may not have the History of the Celtics or Lakers, but it is one of the oldest basketball venues in the league. I have heard Kobe and Lebron say they get amped up to play there. So maybe players do want to play there. But by the looks of their free agent signings over the years, maybe they only want to play there for one or two nights out of the year.

to be honest, we don't know that. The knicks have been over the cap for almost a decade. So we shall see how much players really do or do not want to come here next summer.

Draco
08-09-2009, 08:41 PM
Madison Square Garden is Mecca. Plain and simple.


There is a reason it is refferred to as that and it is not only knicks fans who call it by that name. Who honestly cares what one guy thinks about it? Say what you want defending your article but there is no way you are going to sway the majority opinion.

Yes, maybe right now it shouldn't be called the Basketball Mecca but over it's history, there are thousands of reasons for it to be considered with such high praise. If you want to continue sticking with your boy who wrote this article, go ahead but trying to argue something like this will never work.

I'm sorry it isn't exactly what the definition says a "Mecca" should be but if you(or the author) are going to say MSG isn't the basketball mecca then you better have an idea of what is.

I'm not sure you're in the majority but if you'd like to think you are so be it.

Plain and simple, eh? Wow, when you put it like how can anyone disagree..

aNYer
08-09-2009, 08:47 PM
How many times do I have to state that MJ, Lebron, Kobe enjoying playing at MSG is a good point? Ya got a good point. (in some ways.. I still think Lebron and Kobe are paroting the words of those that came before.. and I think it's become a cliche because stars are encouraged to say positive things) but hell, it's still a better point than anything else I've seen in this thread. So Yippee! Let the celebration begin. ;)

Oh wait.. I don't want to not acknowledge college games and have you accuse me of dismissing your post. Yes, I will suspend my better judgement and just assume that NYC has the best high school and college talent in the nation. All the best players come from NYC! Yippe!! We agree.

No, you missed the bigger point in that. It is the fact that I will listen to ANY of those people over you. And just cause you dismiss the highschool and college(which isn't limited to NY players and colleges by any stretch of the imagination) and then I pointed out all the other people because they all disagree with you and are for more involved and knowledgeable about basket ball then any of us and thats not just the players.

And like I said at the end, I don't care if you switch sides on this I am just pointing out that there is a reason that your on the opposite side of all these people that know love and follow basketball.

J4KOP99
08-09-2009, 08:48 PM
I'm not sure you're in the majority but if you'd like to think you are so be it.

Plain and simple, eh? Wow, when you put it like how can anyone disagree..

Oh, no you're sarcasm over the internet is intimidating me.


Just give it up. I'm sorry your thread isn't working out for you but if you are going to make accusations like this, you better have solutions.


MSG has been considered to be this for a long time, nothing you try and do now will change anything.

Draco
08-09-2009, 08:53 PM
Oh, no you're sarcasm over the internet is intimidating me.


Just give it up. I'm sorry your thread isn't working out for you but if you are going to make accusations like this, you better have solutions.


MSG has been considered to be this for a long time, nothing you try and do now will change anything.

Believe me I'm trying to give it up.. you try being in my position. Giving the benefit of the doubt to utter nonsense is more difficult than you'd think.. if I were arguing with Ink over his steroid position and wanted to bow out gracefully, I can at least feel good about not responding to a good point that he made .. and then call it a day.

With you guys, I see something so utterly ridiculous, it's hard to walk away. It's like.. there's this BS flag, and I feel compelled to raise it. :p

J4KOP99
08-09-2009, 09:03 PM
Believe me I'm trying to give it up.. you try being in my position. Giving the benefit of the doubt to utter nonsense is more difficult than you'd think.. if I were arguing with Ink over his steroid position and wanted to bow out gracefully, I can at least feel good about not responding to a good point that he made .. and then call it a day.

With you guys, I see something so utterly ridiculous, it's hard to walk away. It's like.. there's this BS flag, and I feel compelled to raise it. :p

Try being in your position? Why would I want to say dumb things and get other people pissed off.

You are throwing out accusations without backing yourself up. Be as sarcastic and as "intelligent" as you can possibly be but that will not help you prove your point.


INK? Steroids? Nice man, you found a friend on PSD that you respect. But please explain to me the relevance of this and why any of us should care about who YOU believe can make "good" points.

All I want to know is this. If MSG is not the Basketball Mecca, then what is?

Draco
08-09-2009, 09:06 PM
Try being in your position? Why would I want to say dumb things and get other people pissed off.

You are throwing out accusations without backing yourself up. Be as sarcastic and as "intelligent" as you can possibly be but that will not help you prove your point.


INK? Steroids? Nice man, you found a friend on PSD that you respect. But please explain to me the relevance of this and why any of us should care about who YOU believe can make "good" points.

All I want to know is this. If MSG is not the Basketball Mecca, then what is?

What would be the point in addressing anything you write from here on out.. look at the thread. It's all been done before. ( And Redone )Just like the BNL song. So how about you try "giving it up" too :D

Ripper Gein
08-09-2009, 09:10 PM
It seems that the MAJORITY of people arguing this article are knick fans, I for 1 agree with draco and the writer, it's just sad how people automatically use the term "Hater" when someone disagrees with their opinion BTW the GREATEST CITY IN THE WORLD LOS ANGELES is the "Mecca" so this discussion is moot.

Lakerfan In NY
08-09-2009, 10:00 PM
I think that this author is taking the phrase the Mecca as to mean just basketball. when that isn't true. MSG IS the Mecca not b/c of basketball but b/c of all the different sporting events, concert throughtout its history. Boxing, for the most part got its start at the garden & was the 1st arena to draw large crowd...MSG was the 1st arena where you could go to a game & see stars or political figures walking around just like fans. Sporting events at the garden was more than just sporting events, it was like you were at the grammys. the Glimmer the light, the media at the games all started at the garden. It's call the mecca b/c of one simple fact: every other city. every other arena when it was time to build their arena, looked towards the east & used MSG as the model of what they wanted their arena to be. It is & will always be the Mecca...b/c it's where it all started.

MajorFloridaFan
08-09-2009, 10:09 PM
I think that this author is taking the phrase the Mecca as to mean just basketball. when that isn't true. MSG IS the Mecca not b/c of basketball but b/c of all the different sporting events, concert throughtout its history. Boxing, for the most part got its start at the garden & was the 1st arena to draw large crowd...MSG was the 1st arena where you could go to a game & see stars or political figures walking around just like fans. Sporting events at the garden was more than just sporting events, it was like you were at the grammys. the Glimmer the light, the media at the games all started at the garden. It's call the mecca b/c of one simple fact: every other city. every other arena when it was time to build their arena, looked towards the east & used MSG as the model of what they wanted their arena to be. It is & will always be the Mecca...b/c it's where it all started.

Good point

Kashmir13579
08-09-2009, 10:21 PM
:laugh:

Was this really written on 3/29/06? This was written when the Isiah era started.

This articles irrelevant. So, he's taking the literal definition of Mecca and saying it doesn't fit because we're not as good anymore? Good for you.

New York is the center of the basketball world, regardless of our history. The argument that MSG should be stripped of the title "Mecca" based on our 2006 play is a weak one.

MSG will always be the Mecca and sooner than some think, the Knicks will be back to making it fit, exactly as the center of activity of people sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.

this dude knows whats good.... 4 real. why would you even make this thread, kinda disrespectful i think; especially if your from new york and understand that basketball is new york. all i can say is that i cant wait for the knicks to make it back to contention. BELIEVE

kobelaughsatall
08-09-2009, 10:47 PM
so just got in the house and decided to go online to psd to discover that people r actually still responding to this guy draco. draco seriously do you just sit online all day to bait and argue with people. people STOP FEEDING INTO THIS MADNESS as a matter of fact this pointless thread should be closed for the sake of everyone's sanity. note to draco please GET A LIFE

JMKnick33
08-09-2009, 11:01 PM
Draco, Draco, Draco.. you actually seem do know what you're talking about, and I don't mean that sarcastically, and I respect that. But I've gotta ask, how old are you? If you're no older than 20, and you're just using this opinionated article as your main backup, then shame on you. SHAME SHAME.

Sure, New York only has two championship banners hanging on their ceilings, but, may I remind you.. that's the Knicks. Not New York basketball in general! You AND the author is basing New York basketball on what the New York Knicks have done. New York basketball is much bigger than the Knicks. The Knicks is only a small reflection of what New York basketball really is. Patrick Ewing wasn't a New Yorker when he got drafted, neither was many of our stars. It seems to me that you have difficulty in accepting the simple fact that New York is the mecca of basketball. I think you're thinking the mecca of basketball belongs to the team with most NBA championships. :pity:

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:10 PM
so just got in the house and decided to go online to psd to discover that people r actually still responding to this guy draco. draco seriously do you just sit online all day to bait and argue with people. people STOP FEEDING INTO THIS MADNESS as a matter of fact this pointless thread should be closed for the sake of everyone's sanity. note to draco please GET A LIFE

Hey, welcome back.. thank you for taking the time to be concerned about my life. Interestingly enough though.. I think it would be a good idea if you were more concerned about your own life. I can take care of myself

Keep the posts on the thread topic.. I'm not taking part in the conversation anymore. In that why you yourself will not FEED INTO THE MADNESS.

There's no need for you to lash out like a 10 year old who was just told there really isn't a Santa Clause. :D

Hustla23
08-09-2009, 11:24 PM
I think Draco seems like the jealous type.

Sort of like... a certain Draco from Harry Potter.

woops :p

Draco
08-09-2009, 11:29 PM
I think Draco seems like the jealous type.

Sort of like... a certain Draco from Harry Potter.

woops :p

Hell yeah I'm jealous! I wish the Bulls had the Knicks 2010 pick instead of the Jazz. :pity:

cambovenzi
08-09-2009, 11:33 PM
The knicks have barely anything left as it is. no need to rip on their historic and epic stadium.

MSG34
08-09-2009, 11:48 PM
I did read the article... If you don't think the author mentions MSG history, ya missed something.

I have an idea I think will work for you. Go through the thread and find every post written by a Knick fan and respond to it with some sort of gratifying or confirming post.

We're going in circles dude... haven been for a while. So, enjoy.

:clap::clap: Good idea.

Just curious, did you write this?

A final couple final points, I think the whole idea that the winning history makes MSG what it was has been pretty much thrown out the window.


Remember, a ‘mecca’ is defined, besides as an actual place in Saudi Arabia, as “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.” In other words, Madison Square Garden purports to be the destination of anyone looking to play amateur or professional basketball.

History should not come into play in this article based on this definition yet it does thus taking more away from the article.

I still want to know why MSG is not the Mecca?

If you want to answer with read the article, that's fine. I've learned to take the source into consideration.

Just take into consideration that a writer from Milwaukee who has only been in NY for 5 years and follows the Knicks casually is not such a good source. Especially when this writer actually has little sense of NYC and forms opinions off of the 2006 Knicks performance (the first year under Isiah and the first time he really watched them).

I'm done with this thread. This guy probably just went to the Knicks history page just like he did for St Johns in an attempt to make a name for himself while saying something controversial. Taking shots at Vescey/Lupica really helped.


Nevertheless, what the hell do I know? I went to the history page for St. John’s men’s basketball,


^ That says it all for me.

Evolution23
08-10-2009, 12:11 AM
jeez the New York haters just grow every day.. New York is Basketball just come to Rucker park and get a taste.. that type on atmosphere transmites into msg, if you're an out of towner u won't understand. Theres a lot of history thats in that arena, look it up you can do a 1 month program on all the historical events that took place at msg.

D-Leethal
08-10-2009, 12:22 AM
lol, DMagic points out that Lebron, Kobe, MJ all refer to MSG as the mecca and that there is a certain 'mystique' about playing there, and Draco dismisses it and says he believes the author and that it is just a cliche. That Cliche had to start somewhere? Did Jordan just make it up????

So some of the greatest players in history all agree with it being 'the mecca' and you are going to go with this clown from Wisconsin writing for a no-name website instead?

BBall is a major part of the culture in NYC, Rucker Park is the most legendary street court in the world. Even pro's want to get a chance to play there, and even pros relish in their chance to play in the garden. Sorry if that offends you Draco, but its the truth

IAMLordRaider
08-10-2009, 12:34 AM
I'm not a native New Yorker but if you put an all time team together from all the cities in America, I'm sure New York will be number one. Basketball gained it's popularity in NYC. MSG, the place is what it is. It probably is the mecca of all arenas. I was not happy when my Lakers moved out of the Forum because it was like the sold a house that has been in the family for many generations. I can't see the Knicks playing somewhere else, too me that makes MSG the mecca of all arenas.

madiaz3
08-10-2009, 12:38 AM
lol, DMagic points out that Lebron, Kobe, MJ all refer to MSG as the mecca and that there is a certain 'mystique' about playing there, and Draco dismisses it and says he believes the author and that it is just a cliche. That Cliche had to start somewhere? Did Jordan just make it up????

So some of the greatest players in history all agree with it being 'the mecca' and you are going to go with this clown from Wisconsin writing for a no-name website instead?

BBall is a major part of the culture in NYC, Rucker Park is the most legendary street court in the world. Even pro's want to get a chance to play there, and even pros relish in their chance to play in the garden. Sorry if that offends you Draco, but its the truth

Couldn't have put it better.

Draco
08-10-2009, 12:43 AM
lol, DMagic points out that Lebron, Kobe, MJ all refer to MSG as the mecca and that there is a certain 'mystique' about playing there, and Draco dismisses it and says he believes the author and that it is just a cliche. That Cliche had to start somewhere? Did Jordan just make it up????

So some of the greatest players in history all agree with it being 'the mecca' and you are going to go with this clown from Wisconsin writing for a no-name website instead?

BBall is a major part of the culture in NYC, Rucker Park is the most legendary street court in the world. Even pro's want to get a chance to play there, and even pros relish in their chance to play in the garden. Sorry if that offends you Draco, but its the truth

Whoa hey whoa.. that's your truth and you can hang your hat on that one point if you like. I'm not in this convo anymore to elaborate on this article or on my position.. but I will clarify that I agree with the 5 pages of content over a single point.

So if it feels good to you man, go with it.

naztrack
08-10-2009, 12:43 AM
the amount of ballers in ny is crazy, theres alot of talent out here just no one to groom them into nba players and most ppl are just too dumb to go to college. some of the best players dont go to school, maybe thats y there so good huh?

Draco
08-10-2009, 12:53 AM
Miracle on 31st street.. why would you believe some prosecutor from Wisconsin who thinks Santa doesn't exist even though government of the United States delivers mail to him.. clearly for that single reason he just has to exist. Fricken Santa haters. :rolleyes:

cambovenzi
08-10-2009, 12:55 AM
Miracle on 31st street.. why would you believe some prosecutor from Wisconsin who thinks Santa doesn't exist even though government of the United States delivers mail to him.. clearly for that single reason he just has to exist. Fricken Santa haters. :rolleyes:

.. that is not the asme thing at all.
MSG is not fiction.
if NBA players think it is the "mecca" of basketball, then it sure as hell is the mecca of basketball.
its a matter of opinion, and it is their opinion that counts.

Draco
08-10-2009, 12:57 AM
.. that is not the asme thing at all.
MSG is not fiction.
if NBA players think it is the "mecca" of basketball, then it sure as hell is the mecca of basketball.
its a matter of opinion, and it is their opinion that counts.

Shouldn't matter that it is fiction.. the point is that the author had 5 pages of content, numerous points of discussion. You dudes have a sentence about MJ, Lebron and Kobe. But since they're the stars.. it makes the case for you. Well, ok then. For you, it does. For me, it does not.

cambovenzi
08-10-2009, 01:03 AM
Shouldn't matter that it is fiction.. the point is that the author had 5 pages of content, numerous points of discussion. You dudes have a sentence about MJ, Lebron and Kobe. But since they're the stars.. it makes the case for you. Well, ok then. For you, it does. For me, it does not.

his "5 pages" which consist of a couple paragraphs per page, have less meaningful points than my single small paragraph.
he talks about how the knicks aren't really that successful, and how other teams and events have been held there.
that just adds to the historic qualities of the place, not detracting from it.
it is known and respected by almost everyone in the sport as the mecca of basketball.
an incredible place to play in an incredible city.

a wisconsin writer, and a rando fan do not overrule the stars of the NBA when talking about what they should consider the mecca of basketball.

Draco
08-10-2009, 01:09 AM
his "5 pages" which consist of a couple paragraphs per page, have less meaningful points than my single small paragraph.
he talks about how the knicks aren't really that successful, and how other teams and events have been held there.
that just adds to the historic qualities of the place, not detracting from it.
it is known and respected by almost everyone in the sport as the mecca of basketball.
an incredible place to play in an incredible city.

a wisconsin writer, and a rando fan do not overrule the stars of the NBA when talking about what they should consider the mecca of basketball.

And if the United States government recognizes Santa Clause/Kris Kringle as a person then it overrules whatever the prosecutor from Wisconsin thinks.

And I've already said.. if you want use Jordon et. al's musings as proof that MSG is the "Basketball Mecca" then more power to you. I beg to differ that all of the points the writer made were less meaningful.

prs
08-10-2009, 01:45 AM
This article is complete garbage why did you even bother to post it?

It seems you've also come to realization that this article has no good points as you've yet to make any sort of reasonable argument against calling msg the basketball mecca in this entire thread.

This whole article is just bickering about the franchises/teams that call MSG home. These teams didn't win enough championships for the stadium to be called the mecca :cry::cry: etc. Thats his whole argument, wow what an incredibly convincing article... Not to mention its a whole THREE teams he talks about.

He makes no mention of any significant games at the garden. He makes no mention of the atmosphere in the building. Although according to you he did extensive research for this piece. Which included him going to saint johns website and what seems to be the knicks and msg wikipedia pages.

If this article managed to change your mind about MSG then you had the wrong idea about it in the first place. What Knicks fans/NYers call MSG the basketball mecca because the knicks are so damn good? Who calls it the mecca of basketball cause St.Johns is such an amazing college team?

Oh ya nobody. Great argument though, you've totally convinced me that MSG is not a place that millions of people desire to go to for any sort of basketball game. I'm also totally convinced that athletes are not nervous or excited about their first game at MSG too, its just media pressure...

Ripper Gein
08-10-2009, 04:13 AM
Goddamn New Yawkers are so defensive, who cares if someone doesn't think msg is the "mecca"(as do i) Jesus grow up,people will always disagree and youll never change their minds(but i agree 100% w/ Draco).

JMKnick33
08-10-2009, 04:44 AM
Goddamn New Yawkers are so defensive, who cares if someone doesn't think msg is the "mecca"(as do i) Jesus grow up,people will always disagree and youll never change their minds(but i agree 100% w/ Draco).

Then I wouldn't be surprised if both of you were still under the age of 20.

Amateurs :pity:

Knicks fans, let's not waste our time with this thread anymore. We even have enough support from non Knicks fans as well, who know a little something about basketball history. Draco, go along to your friends or your dog or whoever you want and tell them New York isn't the Mecca of basketball if it makes you feel so good. You obviously have some place in mind that you believe should be considered the Mecca of basketball. I won't ask you what place that is, just keep it to yourself, and soak it all in and say "ahhhh, I sure feel good believing in myself and the Mr. Great-Wisconsin-Writer-Who-Writes-Five-Page-Long-Articles-So-Everything-In-It-Must-Be-True". You deserved it. :clap:

azkarraga
08-10-2009, 05:06 AM
I'm not much into Meccas or Vaticanos, but if i were to see just one NBA game in my life, MSG is possibly de venue i'd choose.

did i already say that i like MSG? well, i like it a lot.

D-Leethal
08-10-2009, 05:20 AM
lol, the article is 5 pages long so it deserves more merit than the 'single sentence' of 3 all time greats? IDK whos a bigger clown Draco or Mr. Wisconsin who is obviously a crappy journalist if he couldnt get a job anywhere but 'the fan zine' website

Trouble87
08-10-2009, 12:17 PM
lol, the article is 5 pages long so it deserves more merit than the 'single sentence' of 3 all time greats? IDK whos a bigger clown Draco or Mr. Wisconsin who is obviously a crappy journalist if he couldnt get a job anywhere but 'the fan zine' website

:clap:

MSG34
08-10-2009, 03:14 PM
lol, the article is 5 pages long so it deserves more merit than the 'single sentence' of 3 all time greats? IDK whos a bigger clown Draco or Mr. Wisconsin who is obviously a crappy journalist if he couldnt get a job anywhere but 'the fan zine' website

This threads just a failure.

Draco
08-10-2009, 04:23 PM
Santa must exist.. afterall millions of 9 year olds who believe in Santa didn't just make it up themselves. So if you don't think Santa exists.. you're a clown and a hater. :rolleyes:

Example of how the "Mecca of Basketball" misnomer gets passed down from one athlete to another.


"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball," Hamilton said. "I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball." -Richard Hamilton
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?p=1487032

kobelaughsatall
08-10-2009, 06:05 PM
this threads just a failure.

exactly!

Draco
08-10-2009, 06:16 PM
lol, the article is 5 pages long so it deserves more merit than the 'single sentence' of 3 all time greats? IDK whos a bigger clown Draco or Mr. Wisconsin who is obviously a crappy journalist if he couldnt get a job anywhere but 'the fan zine' website

It doesn't matter that MJ, Lebron or Kobe are all time greats. It matters that they're professional basketball players. If MSG is believed to be a "Basketball Mecca" or in other words “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest” then what makes MJ, Lebron and Kobe compelling is that they're 3 examples of people who share playing at MSG as a common interest or common goal. Their star power is irrelevant.
On the other hand, what makes MJ, Lebron and Kobe not very compelling to me is that they are only 3 examples. You can throw in Richard Hamilton: 4 examples. Maybe you can find dozens more who make the same claim. But then I look at quotes like the one Hamilton made.. "Mikey Likes it! so it must be good." I'll bet a lot of these athletes are just parroting their idols. Just my two centavos. :D

Hawkeye15
08-10-2009, 06:39 PM
omg, is this thread still going? Who gives a ***. There is no mecca of basketball.

kobelaughsatall
08-10-2009, 07:07 PM
It doesn't matter that MJ, Lebron or Kobe are all time greats. It matters that they're professional basketball players. If MSG is believed to be a "Basketball Mecca" or in other words “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest” then what makes MJ, Lebron and Kobe compelling is that they're 3 examples of people who share playing at MSG as a common interest or common goal. Their star power is irrelevant.
On the other hand, what makes MJ, Lebron and Kobe not very compelling to me is that they are only 3 examples. You can throw in Richard Hamilton: 4 examples. Maybe you can find dozens more who make the same claim. But then I look at quotes like the one Hamilton made.. "Mikey Likes it! so it must be good." I'll bet a lot of these athletes are just parroting their idols. Just my two centavos. :D

I thought you were out of this discussion:rolleyes:

Draco
08-10-2009, 07:28 PM
I thought you were out of this discussion:rolleyes:

Trying.. people insist on making the discussion personal rather than about the article.

Aren't you "FEEDING INTO THE MADNESS" by even asking this question? :rolleyes:

DODGERS&LAKERS
08-10-2009, 07:36 PM
This is still going?? Everyone, follow me to the NFL forum. I'm going to start a thread pointing out that the The Frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field, is not even frozen at all!!! Then, Ill start one pointing out that there is no actual black hole in Oakland. And also, football players don't really play on a grid iron!!! Me and Draco are going to get rid of all these misconceptions one by one. ;)

Hawkeye15
08-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Trying.. people insist on making the discussion personal rather than about the article.

Aren't you "FEEDING INTO THE MADNESS" by even asking this question? :rolleyes:

who cares bro? You introduced the thread, knowing Knicks fans would attack you. Just get out of it, and move on. Nothing wrong with taking pride in your city or team, even if you are over the top and irrational about it.

Draco
08-10-2009, 07:50 PM
This is still going?? Everyone, follow me to the NFL forum. I'm going to start a thread pointing out that the The Frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field, is not even frozen at all!!! Then, Ill start one pointing out that there is no actual black hole in Oakland. And also, football players don't really play on a grid iron!!! Me and Draco are going to get rid of all these misconceptions one by one. ;)

I'm still waiting for your Lebron James and Magic Johnson thread.

Draco
08-10-2009, 07:55 PM
who cares bro? You introduced the thread, knowing Knicks fans would attack you. Just get out of it, and move on. Nothing wrong with taking pride in your city or team, even if you are over the top and irrational about it.

When I made the thread I was hoping the majority of people who would post would take the time to read it and I assumed they'd understand it. I couldn't have been more wrong. :rolleyes:

_KB24_
08-10-2009, 08:24 PM
No place compares to MSG, because like both Bron and Kobe have said, "this is the last original building left in the NBA", something along the lines of that. WHo wouldn't want to play at the garden with the crowd booing and cheering, and trashtalking with Spike. :D

DemKnicks
08-10-2009, 08:26 PM
Draco u suck take it personal. meet me in front of MSG u *****

madiaz3
08-10-2009, 08:31 PM
When I made the thread I was hoping the majority of people who would post would take the time to read it and I assumed they'd understand it. I couldn't have been more wrong. :rolleyes:

Ah yes, try to save face in a "Looks like the rest of the PSD still believes the world is flat!" mentality.

Draco
08-10-2009, 08:32 PM
Ah yes, try to save face in a "Looks like the rest of the PSD still believes the world is flat!" mentality.

Eh? :confused:

The GEEEEE Men
08-10-2009, 08:47 PM
This thread is an epic FAIL...

kobelaughsatall
08-10-2009, 08:50 PM
Trying.. people insist on making the discussion personal rather than about the article.

Aren't you "FEEDING INTO THE MADNESS" by even asking this question? :rolleyes:

no actually i find this thread and you quite hilarious. Other people may be driving themselves nuts trying to convince an *** like yourself of their opinion, but i know better than to try to reason or convince someone who is obviously toying and angering people for his own enjoyment like I said before I know how you have interacted with PSD posters before. This thread is going no where in fact Im sure it will be closed down soon.

Draco
08-10-2009, 08:53 PM
no actually i find this thread and you quite hilarious. Other people may be driving themselves nuts trying to convince an *** like yourself of their opinion, but i know better than to try to reason or convince someone who is obviously toying and angering people for his own enjoyment like I said before I know how you have interacted with PSD posters before. This thread is going no where in fact Im sure it will be closed down soon.

That was a rhetorical question. I didn't really care why you're posting it'd just be nice if you could stay on topic and also refrain from lashing out like a 9 year old whose been told Santa isn't real. :D

Hawkeye15
08-10-2009, 08:53 PM
When I made the thread I was hoping the majority of people who would post would take the time to read it and I assumed they'd understand it. I couldn't have been more wrong. :rolleyes:

well, if you criticize Laker or Knick fans in any way, even indirectly, you are a hater. You should know that by now man. Just get out of this thread, it has turned into something that is nothing about the article, which, quite frankly, doesn't hold a lot of water anyways, it is just one writer's opinion.

Draco
08-10-2009, 09:27 PM
Seems to have been forgotten that this is the thread topic.

Excerpt from a lengthy article. Worth reading the entire piece rather than posting a response to just this excerpt.

http://www.thefanzine.com/articles/sport/58/m.s.g.-_stop_calling_it_the_basketball_mecca/1


...That’s a rich basketball history, but not a regal one. Remember, a ‘mecca’ is defined, besides as an actual place in Saudi Arabia, as “a center of activity sought as a goal by people sharing a common interest.” In other words, Madison Square Garden purports to be the destination of anyone looking to play amateur or professional basketball. This would require every kid with a ball and a hoop to aim considerably low, since no one dreams of hitting the game-winning shot in the NIT, or wanting to be “Like Pat,” or, for that matter, part of a franchise known more as perennial also-rans than as anything resembling royalty. It doesn’t take any stretch of the imagination to say that Madison Square Garden has a richer history of professional wrestling than basketball; after all, it’s the birthplace of Wrestlemania.

Or consider other NBA arenas for a moment. The Boston Celtics won sixteen NBA championships while playing at the old Boston Garden. The Los Angeles Lakers have fourteen, including six at the Forum in Inglewood and three at their present home, the Staples Center (also home to the Clippers). The Chicago Bulls won six titles, three at Chicago Stadium and three more at the United Center. Even the coldly-named AT&T Center in San Antonio has seen its Spurs win two titles in its three-year existence. Yet neither the owners nor the tenants of these stadiums have felt the need to confer upon them the status of “mecca.” They don’t have to....

...It does the Garden an injustice to aggrandize its basketball history and stature. New York City is the center of a lot of different universes, including theatre, publishing, finance, fashion, and (probably) baseball. The basketball universe? Let’s not embarrass ourselves with this foolish consistency any longer. We shouldn’t have to.

Draco
08-10-2009, 09:32 PM
the article, which, quite frankly, doesn't hold a lot of water anyways, it is just one writer's opinion.

Why doesn't the writer's opinion "hold a lot of water?"

The GEEEEE Men
08-10-2009, 09:34 PM
ok now we're posting stuff we've already posted before because you have nothing else to say? :laugh2:

The GEEEEE Men
08-10-2009, 09:41 PM
I'll do an excerpt of another article that maybe you should read...

http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/mecca_madison_square_garden/


Madison Square Garden is often called the “mecca,” a puzzling term to many today. However, the term “mecca” was first applied to the third Madison Square Garden at 50th Street and Eighth Avenue; “mecca” was later used to describe the fourth Madison Square Garden—the one that exists today at 33rd Street and Eighth Avenue (at Penn Station). The current Madison Square Garden is described as a “boxing mecca” (or “mecca of boxing” or “fight mecca") and a “basketball mecca” (or “mecca of basketball").

New York City Center is located at 55th Street between Sixth and Seventh Avenues; it was built in 1923 and was originally called the Mecca Temple. The third Madison Square Garden (at 50th Street and Eighth Avenue) opened in 1925. The Mecca Temple held some sporting events, such as boxing and wrestling, but it is not difficult to see how the name of one building became applied to the other building. A Mecca Arena at Fourteenth Street and Avenue A also held some sporting events in 1936-1937.

Madison Square Garden is perhaps better-known today as “The World’s Most Famous Arena.”