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View Full Version : Why Doesn't Toronto Get Any Love?



Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 02:39 PM
Toronto has an elite big man in Bosh and just signed Hedo who was the Magics go to guy that lead them thru the playoffs and to the Finals, with those 2 and along with the other players they picked up this offseason why aren't people talking about the Raptors being atleast the 4th best team in the East if not being right up there with BOS/ORL/CLE??

heyman321
08-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Because they had a terrible season last year and they're Canadian.

These are the facts -- I live in Toronto I should know lol.

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 02:46 PM
Because they had a terrible season last year and they're Canadian.

These are the facts -- I live in Toronto I should know lol.

LOL I'm no Raptors fan but they should be a whole new team this season with Hedo so they should without a doubt a make the playoffs.

Raidaz4Life
08-08-2009, 02:49 PM
People were on the Toronto bandwagon last year and they disappointed so I guess they know better than to make the same mistake again.

jsumadchat
08-08-2009, 02:53 PM
yeah.... the diehards know whats up.... but everyone else has taken a cautionary road when it comes to predicting what the raps will do. i guess its for the best anyway, tired of all the CB4 leaving toronto hype.

zo#33
08-08-2009, 02:53 PM
They don't play defense

THiiRTYONE
08-08-2009, 03:02 PM
hopefully this coming season will change

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:02 PM
obviously, last year was a disappointment after the raps were so hyped up going in the season. I guess us raptors fans are being a little more cautious this year because we know how quickly things can change..

As for no love from no one in the league im not so sure..... I guess were going to have to prove it this year like in 06-07.


We got one game on espn this year and i hope by then were a considered a threat in the east but who knows, even though we got better so did many other teams in the east.

Mavrix
08-08-2009, 03:03 PM
They didn't just GET Turkoglu, they traded their second best player in Shawn Marion for him. I would say Turkoglu is only a little upgrade over Marion. Marion is more versatile and can play both SF and PF where as Hedo is more of a SF then anything. Marion is a better defender and rebounder where as Turkoglu is a better play maker and outside shooter. I give the edge to Hedo but not by much. They traded Kapono for Evans...eh. They lost Parker and gained DeRozan in the draft. They picked up some decent bench players in Antoine Wright and Marco Belineli and signed an above average back up PG in Jarret Jack.

All in all a good off season but I wouldn't compare them to the big 3 in the west. The definately upgraded their bench with some nice role players but their starting line up doesn't even come close to the line ups of the top notch teams.

PG- Calderon
SG- DeRozan or Wright
SF- Turkoglu
PF- Bosh
C- Bargnani

Let's look at what Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando have compared to Toronto

Boston

PG- Rondo
SG- Allen
SF- Pierce
PF- Garnett
C- Perkins

Orlando

PG- Nelson
SG- Carter
SF- Lewis
PF- Bass
C- Howard

Cleveland

PG- Williams
SG- West or Parker
SF- Lebron
PF- Varejao
C- Shaq/Z


I'd say they're behind Atlanta, Chicago, and possibly Miami.

B-Ray
08-08-2009, 03:10 PM
the Raptors have to prove themselves before getting any recognition.

I do think the Raptors have improved a lot from last season, their bench has gotten better.
but they have to show it can work on the court and win some games to make any noise in the eastern conference this year.

Bosh=nextKG
08-08-2009, 03:15 PM
^^^ You said they traded their 2nd best player for Hedo, I thought they gave up Marion, not Calderon. Marion was a system guy, Phoenix works wonders for his career but he was nothing special in Miami or Toronto. He couldn't even make the Eastern all star team. Theres a reason why he was traded for Jermaine O'Neal. Marion is washed now. He was good with Nash because Nash was a good fast break pg. He may suceed with the Mavs because of kid but who knows. Is he even going to start? The Raptors deffinately improved. Hedo is a very good player who is the wing player who can complement Bosh as a threat to put up big numbers. I really liked the Derozan pick, I think he'll be a good player this year even tho he is fairly raw. Bargs has been making huge strides and I think that will only continue this season. Jack is a good backup and Belinelli was a very good pickup. I live in the Bay Area and Nellie is a piece of **** for screwing up again. If Marco gets some good PT then he'll be able to contribute. Raptors are way ahead of the heat and the Bulls and are right around the Hawks I think. The Hawks and Raptors will fight it out for home court advantage.

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 03:16 PM
I'd say they're behind Atlanta, Chicago, and possibly Miami.

I'm not so sure about that.....exsp Chicago they lost there go to guy in Gordon and havent done anything to replace him.

johnnychan
08-08-2009, 03:17 PM
Because they arent that good. The addition of a 35 year old Turkoglu is overrated.

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 03:18 PM
^^^ You said they traded their 2nd best player for Hedo, I thought they gave up Marion, not Calderon. Marion was a system guy, Phoenix works wonders for his career but he was nothing special in Miami or Toronto. He couldn't even make the Eastern all star team. Theres a reason why he was traded for Jermaine O'Neal. Marion is washed now. He was good with Nash because Nash was a good fast break pg. He may suceed with the Mavs because of kid but who knows. Is he even going to start? The Raptors deffinately improved. Hedo is a very good player who is the wing player who can complement Bosh as a threat to put up big numbers. I really liked the Derozan pick, I think he'll be a good player this year even tho he is fairly raw. Bargs has been making huge strides and I think that will only continue this season. Jack is a good backup and Belinelli was a very good pickup. I live in the Bay Area and Nellie is a piece of **** for screwing up again. If Marco gets some good PT then he'll be able to contribute. Raptors are way ahead of the heat and the Bulls and are right around the Hawks I think. The Hawks and Raptors will fight it out for home court advantage.

This is more so my thoughts about them

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:21 PM
cant wait for the home openere against cleveland so we can show how good this team can actually be

torontosports10
08-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Cause were Canadian EH

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Because they arent that good. The addition of a 35 year old Turkoglu is overrated.

He is 30 and in his prime............

Mavrix
08-08-2009, 03:23 PM
^^^ You said they traded their 2nd best player for Hedo, I thought they gave up Marion, not Calderon. Marion was a system guy, Phoenix works wonders for his career but he was nothing special in Miami or Toronto. He couldn't even make the Eastern all star team. Theres a reason why he was traded for Jermaine O'Neal. Marion is washed now. He was good with Nash because Nash was a good fast break pg. He may suceed with the Mavs because of kid but who knows. Is he even going to start? The Raptors deffinately improved. Hedo is a very good player who is the wing player who can complement Bosh as a threat to put up big numbers. I really liked the Derozan pick, I think he'll be a good player this year even tho he is fairly raw. Bargs has been making huge strides and I think that will only continue this season. Jack is a good backup and Belinelli was a very good pickup. I live in the Bay Area and Nellie is a piece of **** for screwing up again. If Marco gets some good PT then he'll be able to contribute. Raptors are way ahead of the heat and the Bulls and are right around the Hawks I think. The Hawks and Raptors will fight it out for home court advantage.

I agree in some aspects to what you're saying but you're making it seem like Marion is some kind of scrub. If he wasn't better than Calderon, then I'm sorry he was your 3rd best player. Is Hedo better than Calderon? Toronto basically just upgraded their bench was what I was getting at.

As for Chicago:

I expect Derrick Rose to see a ton of growth from his rookie season to his sophmore year. Great players usually make a big leap over that period of time and Rose has greatness written all over him. I know Ben Gordon is gone and he hit big shot after big shot for the Bulls when it mattered most, but the Bulls still have some firepower. John Salmons can score the basketball (over 18ppg in his only season as a starter) and is an upper-echelon defender on the perimeter. Considering the return of a healthy Luol Deng, the improved play of Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah, and playing in a relatively weak Central Division, the Bulls are on their way to hosting a first round playoff series.

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:24 PM
This is more so my thoughts about them

I agree i dont get the hype around the heat sure they have wade and besley but behind that i cant really see how people can predict them higher than a 6th seed

johnnychan
08-08-2009, 03:25 PM
He is 30 and in his prime............

Ok sorry but still don't think hes any good and overrated. That's just me though.

Tdots-Guido
08-08-2009, 03:27 PM
Toronto is going to take a few games to get use to the new faces because i believe we added like 7 players if I'm not mistaken? I agree our starting line up is not the best at defending but our second unit is very strong at defending and we have upgraded our entire bench. But i can see them ahead of Chicago for sure and possibly Miami as well. Im not sure about getting past the hawks and we cannot forget about the wizards.(if they stay healthy)

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:29 PM
Ok sorry but still don't think hes any good and overrated. That's just me though.

He carried a magic team that didnt have there star point guard past the Boston Celtics and the Cleveland Cavaliers. Sure he may be over paid but not overrated. You cant count how many times this guy hit a game winning shot or put his team in position to win

Tdots-Guido
08-08-2009, 03:30 PM
Ok sorry but still don't think hes any good and overrated. That's just me though.

I don't understand how you can say hes over rated. He did prove him self in the playoffs and had a great season and was the go to guy for Orlando in clutch situations and he even won some games at the end. In the playoffs he averaged almost 19 points and 6 rebounds and he is also a fairly decent distributor as well for being 6"10. Thats a pretty good player, but thats just me though.

NYYCowboys
08-08-2009, 03:33 PM
Because your team was barley better than the Knicks last year, and now you added an overrated player in Turkoglu and Jarrett Jack which may make you a marginal playoff team at best eh.

Mavrix
08-08-2009, 03:34 PM
I don't understand how you can say hes over rated. He did prove him self in the playoffs and had a great season and was the go to guy for Orlando in clutch situations and he even won some games at the end. In the playoffs he averaged almost 19 points and 6 rebounds and he is also a fairly decent distributor as well for being 6"10. Thats a pretty good player, but thats just me though.

No, in the playoffs he averaged 15.8 points and 4.5 rebounds.

zambo4president
08-08-2009, 03:39 PM
Whats there to love :shrug:?

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 03:39 PM
As for Chicago:

I expect Derrick Rose to see a ton of growth from his rookie season to his sophmore year. Great players usually make a big leap over that period of time and Rose has greatness written all over him. I know Ben Gordon is gone and he hit big shot after big shot for the Bulls when it mattered most, but the Bulls still have some firepower. John Salmons can score the basketball (over 18ppg in his only season as a starter) and is an upper-echelon defender on the perimeter. Considering the return of a healthy Luol Deng, the improved play of Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah, and playing in a relatively weak Central Division, the Bulls are on their way to hosting a first round playoff series.

Sorry but as good as Rose is losing Gordon is going to hurt them alot, you don't just have other players pick up those #'s. Deng is overrated I don't know why everyone thinks so much of him and he has back problems. Tyrus is the only player besides Rose that could have a break out season IMO and thats very questionable. Bulls are one of the only teams that got worse this offseason, they need to make a trade for Boozer.

Grizz/Cowboys09
08-08-2009, 03:39 PM
I've have to go with.....thery're Canadian.....they have those two piece pac man heads in South Park

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:41 PM
Because your team was barley better than the Knicks last year, and now you added an overrated player in Turkoglu and Jarrett Jack which may make you a marginal playoff team at best eh.

We also got a lights out shooter in Belinelli, a tough defender in both Reggie Evans and Antonie Wright, also we have another solid bigman in Rasho.

Plus Bosh is in a contract year and will play the best ball of his career in order to prove himself to the rest of the league.

There is no doubt in my mind the raptors are going to be a scary team to face this year and will be battling for homecourt in the east

SA5195
08-08-2009, 03:43 PM
People are forgetting...we also added 6 new players, 7 with Hedo. They're just hating cause when "Canada" does something amazing, they just get jelouse and start critizing us, and they got caught up that we were a 33 win team last season. The past is the past people!

johnnychan
08-08-2009, 03:46 PM
The Raptors can't roll with the big dogs in the East. (Bos,Clev,Orl)

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 03:46 PM
People are forgetting...we also added 6 new players, 7 with Hedo. They're just hating cause when "Canada" does something amazing, they just get jelouse and start critizing us, and they got caught up that we were a 33 win team last season. The past is the past people!

Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

ink
08-08-2009, 03:51 PM
Because your team was barley better than the Knicks last year, and now you added an overrated player in Turkoglu and Jarrett Jack which may make you a marginal playoff team at best eh.

Interesting logic. :eyebrow:

In a terrible season marred by injury (Calderon, JO), the major growing pains of a system change (Mitchell's system with JO to Triano's system with Marion), and a failed trade (JO), you use ... wait for it ... another team as a measuring stick.

How is that relevant?

Comparing the Knicks and the Raptors seasons last year couldn't be more irrelevant. Nothing the Raptors did affected the Knicks except for the games they played against each other. Nothing the Knicks did affected the Raptors either. Just bad logic.

Then you top it off with a mention of a player you consider "over-rated" but give no reasons, and ignore the addition of all the other bench players who will shore up the Raptors' biggest weakness from last year, and the reason other teams built up leads on them that the starters couldn't overcome -- their bench.

Ragun
08-08-2009, 03:52 PM
Toronto has an elite big man in Bosh and just signed Hedo who was the Magics go to guy that lead them thru the playoffs and to the Finals, with those 2 and along with the other players they picked up this offseason why aren't people talking about the Raptors being atleast the 4th best team in the East if not being right up there with BOS/ORL/CLE??

really? i think they are getting to much love right now. especially after what happened last year.

johodo2
08-08-2009, 03:53 PM
i think the raps have a good shot at being the 4th seed in the east...cant wait till oct.28th 7 pm!!!!!SOO EXCITED FOR THIS SEASON!!!!!...and i really want to see Derozan in action.

ink
08-08-2009, 03:54 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

Back to back World Series champs, 92-93, Toronto Blue Jays.
Edmonton Oilers dynasty throughout the 80's.
Montreal Canadiens dynasties of the 50's and 70's. Set the standard for up tempo sport WITH good defence.
I'd say Ben Johnson and Donovan Bailey were pretty amazing too, despite Johnson's steroid bust.
Donovan Bailey kicks Michael Johnson's *** in a 150m showdown right after the Atlanta Olympics.

...

Back on topic ....

:D

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 03:55 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

one thing that comes to mind is Terry Fox? He had cancer and lost a leg and had a metal one put in but still attempted to walk across canada. Pretty impressive dont you think?

ink
08-08-2009, 04:00 PM
Toronto has an elite big man in Bosh and just signed Hedo who was the Magics go to guy that lead them thru the playoffs and to the Finals, with those 2 and along with the other players they picked up this offseason why aren't people talking about the Raptors being atleast the 4th best team in the East if not being right up there with BOS/ORL/CLE??

Simple answer: no big stars. Bosh isn't quite at the superstar level. Most fans only get excited when a team has big names. Also, the team's most talented players are European, and there's a lot of prejudice against them. At least there's an overwhelming assumption by most American fans that American players are better.

Byronicle
08-08-2009, 04:00 PM
Whats there to love :shrug:?

LOL

but anyways heres a link

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/08/07/middleclass/index.html

TORONTO

DA's Offseason Rank: No. 5

Last season: 33-49, fourth place, Atlantic; Did not make Playoffs.

Added: F Hedo Turkoglu (sign-and-trade, Orlando; five years, $53 million), G Jarrett Jack (free agent, Indiana; four years, $20 million), G/F DeMar DeRozan (first-round pick), G Antoine Wright (trade with Dallas), G Marco Belinelli (trade with Golden State), C Rasho Nesterovic (free agent, Indiana; one year, $1.9 million), F Reggie Evans (trade with Philadelphia),

Lost: G Anthony Parker (signed with Cleveland), G Jason Kapono (traded to Philadelphia), F Devean George (traded to Golden State)

Retained: Removed interim tag from Coach Jay Triano

The key man: F Andrea Bargnani. The first overall pick in a draft, any draft, can't just be a solid player. He has to be a star. Bargnani hasn't done that yet in Toronto, though he's already gotten a big contract extension.

The skinny: With a frenetic offseason, Toronto has positioned itself nicely for what will likely be the post-Chris Bosh era. Jack, DeRozan and Jose Calderon could become a strong three-guard rotation. Turkoglu is a veteran baller with postseason credentials. Wright is an underrated pickup. Bosh will certainly play his heart out, and at worst, Toronto should get some nice goodies in a sign-and-trade deal for Bosh next summer. Could be worse.

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 04:03 PM
The skinny: With a frenetic offseason, Toronto has positioned itself nicely for what will likely be the post-Chris Bosh era. Jack, DeRozan and Jose Calderon could become a strong three-guard rotation.

of course the nba site is hinting that chris bosh will leave the raptors.......

Toenail Clipper
08-08-2009, 04:03 PM
They have no aspiration to win?
IDK

Byronicle
08-08-2009, 04:04 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

Pamela Anderson

Greg_Sox_fan
08-08-2009, 04:14 PM
I'm not so sure about that.....exsp Chicago they lost there go to guy in Gordon and havent done anything to replace him.

hmmm let me see Luol Deng will be coming back and if not then what ever we'll have Salmons who hit some clutch shots for us in the playoffs plus he plays defense which the guy we lost wouldn't know the definition of defense if he looked it up in a ****ing dictionary.

Hedo Bosh and Bargani
or
DRose, Salmons, Deng, Hinrich and BMiller????

Team that didn't win 30 games
or
team that made the playoffs last year???

in my eyes the 35 year old Hedo is as much as a question mark as Luol Deng

AntwanN21
08-08-2009, 04:18 PM
in my eyes the 35 year old Hedo is as much as a question mark as Luol Deng

He is only 30 or 31, check your facts first man

mavs&colts
08-08-2009, 04:20 PM
Toronto will have a better record than they did last season {more than 33 wins} but i seriously doubt they will be a major force in the east, Its not that were hating on The Raptors its just there not exciting at all. I mean come on if they start showing Toronto games on ESPN & TNT They would have to start showing the Pacers even more!!! They did have a better record & even after adding TURK and their bench I still dont think they have a better team than Indiana IMO, You have to earn the right to be mentioned with the elite, not just expect to be put in the top cuz u got a 15 & 5 player ask yourself how many times have you made it to the playoffs in the past decade??, conference/finals appearances??? 2 be truthful the raptors where nothing before Bosh but a jersey VC used to wear in his highlight videos :shrug:

tland22
08-08-2009, 04:25 PM
to be completely honest: i think it is because some of their fans. Nothing wrong with most of them, but some of them on PSD can get annoying. I hope im not offending the fan-base, because I know their fan base is OUTSTANDING...its just that they are extreme homers too often I find.

Bluerapoileagle
08-08-2009, 04:28 PM
to be completely honest: i think it is because some of their fans. Nothing wrong with most of them, but some of them on PSD can get annoying. I hope im not offending the fan-base, because I know their fan base is OUTSTANDING...its just that they are extreme homers too often I find.

I don't find that the case, lots of fans on here are actually very critical of the Raptors.

Anyways, the Raptors don't get enough credit because they're Canadian. Americans just don't seem to take notice, they only care about Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, LA, etc.

zambo4president
08-08-2009, 04:31 PM
Sorry but as good as Rose is losing Gordon is going to hurt them alot, you don't just have other players pick up those #'s. Deng is overrated I don't know why everyone thinks so much of him and he has back problems. Tyrus is the only player besides Rose that could have a break out season IMO and thats very questionable. Bulls are one of the only teams that got worse this offseason, they need to make a trade for Boozer.

Do you even know what the **** you`re talking about? Your so wrong on so many levels.

shas
08-08-2009, 04:36 PM
Because they had a terrible season last year and they're Canadian.

These are the facts -- I live in Toronto I should know lol.

yeah,, what i dont get is WHY IS WASHINGTON GETTING RESPECT, IF NETHING AGENT ZERO WILL GO DOWN AGAIN.

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 04:39 PM
Do you even know what the **** you`re talking about? Your so wrong on so many levels.

Please tell me how so? I live in Chicago I see the Bulls play enough to know whats going on with them.

clutchski
08-08-2009, 04:40 PM
I think we don't get attention because:

1) We're not part of the U.S., which houses the rest of the nba. Along with this, we barely get any ESPN type televised games.
2) We don't have any all-stars with the exception of CB, and we are in the media when it comes to CB (not 'love' though)
3) We didn't do very well last season, and crappy teams get less media attention obviously
4) We have an international based team, and as such not an 'American' based team.

I think in the end, it's because we're not a serious contender and not American enough, and I mean that honestly, not trying to get at the U.S. at all. It's just how the NBA works.

Look at the Blue Jays, they get a certain level of respect in the MLB because we had a great run at the championship world series in the 90's and won it. Why should the Raps get respect if we have a 'decent' team that barely makes the playoffs at best? We need to be a contender if we want some real love from the rest of the NBA.


to be completely honest: i think it is because some of their fans. Nothing wrong with most of them, but some of them on PSD can get annoying. I hope im not offending the fan-base, because I know their fan base is OUTSTANDING...its just that they are extreme homers too often I find.

We're homers just as much on PSD as Chicago, LAL, NYK fans..or even less realistically.

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 04:40 PM
to be completely honest: i think it is because some of their fans. Nothing wrong with most of them, but some of them on PSD can get annoying. I hope im not offending the fan-base, because I know their fan base is OUTSTANDING...its just that they are extreme homers too often I find.

We all know which Raptors fan is the most annoying.............

ink
08-08-2009, 04:40 PM
to be completely honest: i think it is because some of their fans. Nothing wrong with most of them, but some of them on PSD can get annoying. I hope im not offending the fan-base, because I know their fan base is OUTSTANDING...its just that they are extreme homers too often I find.

I agree that the Raptors have too many homer fans. But just like with Laker, Bulls, Heat, Celtics, or any other team's homer fans, as a poster I just try NOT to change my opinion of the ACTUAL TEAM because of the fans. The fans should be irrelevant, even though I know completely what you mean.

bogdanrom
08-08-2009, 04:41 PM
yeah,, what i dont get is WHY IS WASHINGTON GETTING RESPECT, IF NETHING AGENT ZERO WILL GO DOWN AGAIN.

Where is this respect that you're talking about? Hoopsworld has us ranked 10th in the Eastern Conference with Arenas healthy. And most other sites have us ranked 6-9 so I have no idea what you're talking about?

mrblisterdundee
08-08-2009, 04:42 PM
Toronto is a team of *******. It's why they didn't go very far before, and it's why they won't go very far in the future. Does any serious contender really expect Bargnani to be a long-term center? Toronto might as well play Bosh at center.

Shareeb_omac2
08-08-2009, 04:44 PM
Hedo Turkoglu is slightly overated. Chris Bosh can't gaurd Shaq, Dwight, or KG. Atlanta has more talent and plays better defense. Miami has the potential to be good next year. And if the Wizards are healthy next year they will be better than Toronto.

SA5195
08-08-2009, 04:45 PM
Toronto will have a better record than they did last season {more than 33 wins} but i seriously doubt they will be a major force in the east, Its not that were hating on The Raptors its just there not exciting at all. I mean come on if they start showing Toronto games on ESPN & TNT They would have to start showing the Pacers even more!!! They did have a better record & even after adding TURK and their bench I still dont think they have a better team than Indiana IMO, You have to earn the right to be mentioned with the elite, not just expect to be put in the top cuz u got a 15 & 5 player ask yourself how many times have you made it to the playoffs in the past decade??, conference/finals appearances??? 2 be truthful the raptors where nothing before Bosh but a jersey VC used to wear in his highlight videos :shrug:

LOL, umm the Raps are just gonna start their 15th season this october, many teams in the nba never made it to the finals, and been playing for a long time like: Denver Nuggets, Los Angeles Clippers, Memphis Grizzlies, Minnesota Timberwolves, and New Orleans Hornets.

clutchski
08-08-2009, 04:46 PM
I agree that the Raptors have too many homer fans. But just like with Laker, Bulls, Heat, Celtics, or any other team's homer fans, as a poster I just try NOT to change my opinion of the ACTUAL TEAM because of the fans. The fans should be irrelevant, even though I know completely what you mean.

I agree and don't think the thread maker was referring to just PSD, I think he was referring to the Raps love in the NBA in general.

I mean, I as a raps fan get fairly excited when we're featured on NBA.com..like that Aldridge article it barely ever happens (thanks BC :D)

LanceUpperCut
08-08-2009, 05:03 PM
to be completely honest: i think it is because some of their fans. Nothing wrong with most of them, but some of them on PSD can get annoying. I hope im not offending the fan-base, because I know their fan base is OUTSTANDING...its just that they are extreme homers too often I find.

Really man, Any of the teams like Chicago, L.A., N.Y. and Toronto who seem to have the biggest fellowing are all homers. Wether any one wants to admit it the main reason is because were from Canada. It works both ways I live closer to about 5-10 NBA teams but T.O. is my favorite because I'm Canadian.

tland22
08-08-2009, 05:18 PM
I agree that the Raptors have too many homer fans. But just like with Laker, Bulls, Heat, Celtics, or any other team's homer fans, as a poster I just try NOT to change my opinion of the ACTUAL TEAM because of the fans. The fans should be irrelevant, even though I know completely what you mean.

Yea you hit it right on. Its a natural psychological type thing I THINK. What I mean is, if a teams fans are obnoxious or something, me being a human being, I have animosity towards the team they are rooting for....its natural. if you know what I mean, It could be just me though.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 05:21 PM
I'm a Raptors fan but shouldn't they earn your respect first before you start talking good about them.

I think they are a playoff team but I think people want to see what they are made of before people star rating them.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 05:23 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

We have the best health care seeing as how everyone gets taken care of. That is amazing.

And we really haven't done wrong. If anything, a lot of countries think Canada is th nicest country in the world.

lorenz00
08-08-2009, 05:24 PM
raptors are canadian eh? Lol

LanceUpperCut
08-08-2009, 05:27 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

Your right maybe we should have handicap run are country for 8 years and mulitiply our murder rated by about 200 % then we will be amazing.

JOSKOMANG4
08-08-2009, 05:31 PM
Yeah i'd say have them as the 5th seed...

1) Celtics
2) Magic
3) Cavaliers
4) Hawks
5) Raptors
6) Heat
7) Wizards(if healthy, wow)
8) Bobcats

Who's out:

Sixers( lost andre Miller)
Pistons( Life w/o Chauncy year 2 and no rasheed.).. Villanueva isn't as big as of pick ups as every1 thinks..
Bulls.. Ben Gordon was a big loss.

Playoff Predictions

Round 1:

Celtics beat bobcats in 5
Magic beat Wizards in 6
Cavs sweep Heat
Raptors beat Hawks in 6

Round 2:

Celtics defeat raptors in 6
Cavs defeat Magic in 7

East Con Titles:

Cavs beat Celtics in 6

bogdanrom
08-08-2009, 05:35 PM
I love how this thread is turning into a US vs. Canada thing now.

GodsSon
08-08-2009, 05:36 PM
first off, if people are referring to Toronto the city, they need to realize people here dont say "eh" at the end of their sentences....thats more of an east coast/small town/white trash way of speaking; and when i've passed through the states, there's A LOT worse down there lol...with that said, the major reason is probably because we're located in a different country and dont get as much exposure since VC left; couple that with the large influx of what many consider to be "soft" europeans. plus coming off a bad season, and its easy to see why we get very little love

BkOriginalOne
08-08-2009, 05:40 PM
'Cause in the history of their franchis, they have NEVER won anything.

bogdanrom
08-08-2009, 05:43 PM
'Cause in the history of their franchis, they have NEVER won anything.

Division Title 2006-07

Draco
08-08-2009, 05:45 PM
'Cause in the history of their franchis, they have NEVER won anything.

Pretty much.

Draco
08-08-2009, 05:46 PM
Division Title 2006-07

Yeah but when you compare it with some of the other young franchises (Miami, Orlando) they're far behind.. the only way to build a wider fanbase is to be a lot more successful.

Mavrix
08-08-2009, 05:47 PM
Division Title 2006-07

Division titles are so cool. I hope Dallas wins one this year :clap:

bogdanrom
08-08-2009, 05:49 PM
Yeah but when you compare it with some of the other young franchises (Miami, Orlando) they're far behind.. the only way to build a wider fanbase is to be a lot more successful.

No i was just saying he said NEVER won anything I proved him wrong. Plus Toronto is a relatively young team. They were formed in 1995.

Miami Heat-1988
Orlando Magic 1989

Storch
08-08-2009, 05:49 PM
They dont play much defense, and theyre super soft.

bogdanrom
08-08-2009, 05:49 PM
Division titles are so cool. I hope Dallas wins one this year :clap:

Same with Wasington. :clap: ;)

Talick
08-08-2009, 05:51 PM
I'm a Raptors fan but shouldn't they earn your respect first before you start talking good about them.

I think they are a playoff team but I think people want to see what they are made of before people star rating them.

I agree. Why are all of you constantly starving for attention guys? It's like you guys are kids again. Hell, on paper, we look like we could kick some serious *** next year, but nobody can know for sure cuz there's something called chemistry. Whenever you do large repairs chemistry is always gonna be a factor and you're not gonna know how good a team is until you see them play (especially opening up against the cavs). If we do great next year and don't get attention, that's when its time for us to get angry, not now.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 05:52 PM
Yeah but when you compare it with some of the other young franchises (Miami, Orlando) they're far behind.. the only way to build a wider fanbase is to be a lot more successful.

The Raptors are only 14 years old while the Heat and Magic are 20-22.

Draco
08-08-2009, 05:55 PM
The Raptors are only 14 years old while the Heat and Magic are 20-22.

Babies compared with teams that have been around for 60 years.

carruthers32
08-08-2009, 06:01 PM
People were on the Toronto bandwagon last year and they disappointed so I guess they know better than to make the same mistake again.

were a million times deeper then last year!!!

DetroitRipCity
08-08-2009, 06:05 PM
Toronto has an elite big man in Bosh and just signed Hedo who was the Magics go to guy that lead them thru the playoffs and to the Finals, with those 2 and along with the other players they picked up this offseason why aren't people talking about the Raptors being atleast the 4th best team in the East if not being right up there with BOS/ORL/CLE??

4th Best??

Lakers4ItAll
08-08-2009, 06:17 PM
4th Best??

Way to contribute :rolleyes:

rapswin98
08-08-2009, 07:41 PM
one reason i think is cause the raps have never accomplished anything great yet and even if we did they will always be overshadowed by other teams cause their American. I always thought that both the Clippers and Raptors were very similar franchises especially when you look at their history. Just like how the raptors are overshadowed by the American teams, the clippers are overshadowed by lakers and both have never accomplished anything great.

johnnychan
08-08-2009, 07:44 PM
It has nothing to do with being in Canada you guys just always sucked.

heyman321
08-08-2009, 07:52 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

Dunno, but there was this Canadian who invented something called basketball.

GAWDtv
08-08-2009, 07:55 PM
Raptors sucked last season and got worse. Go get AI then well talk..

ESaady
08-08-2009, 07:56 PM
Marco Belinelli makes them a winner :D

Draco
08-08-2009, 07:57 PM
Dunno, but there was this Canadian who invented something called basketball.

Naismith was a naturalized American who invented basketball when he was living in Massachusetts. He left Canada and was inspired by the American Dream to create Basketball. :D

ewells20
08-08-2009, 07:58 PM
I would rank them that high....if they were playing in Europe, they are built for playing in the Europe, not in the NBA just look at the roster, 2 big men who's game is more built for the perimeter.

Originally European league players:

Jose Calderon
Hedo Turkoglu
Andrea Barngani
Marco Belinelli
Rasho Nasterovic
Roko Ukic

half their squad is originally from the European leagues, so they'll play like a European team, soft D, perimeter oriented, that doesn't win playoff series in the NBA

1- Boston, 2- Cleveland, 3- Orlando, 4- Atlanta, 5- Miami (if they get Boozer), 6- Washington, 7- Toronto, 8- New Jersey/Detroit/Chicago (who ever steps up there

JWO35
08-08-2009, 07:58 PM
(Highlight) They have Patrick O'Bryant! (Highlight)

nuff Said!
And that is why they are winning the Championship! :D

ReedBoshMarleau
08-08-2009, 08:10 PM
Ok, people have been saying Miami, Chicago, Washington and Atlanta are all better then Toronto, but i just dont see, Atlanta is the only team other then Toronto that has a legitimate shot at finishing fourth, lets take a look

Toronto:
PG- Calderon SG- Wright (maybe Derozan) SF- Turkoglu PF- Bosh C- Bargnani
Bench: Jarrett Jack, DeMar DeRozan, Marco Belinelli, Reggie Evans, Rasho Nesterovic

Miami:
PG- Chalmers SG- Wade SF- Beasley (could be Jones) PF- Haslem C- J. O'Neal
Bench: Chris Quinn, Dorell Wright, Daequon Cook, Mark Blount, Jamall Magloire

Chicago:
PG- Rose SG- Salmons SF- Deng PF- Thomas C- Miller
Bench: Kirk Heinrich, Jannero Pargo, James Johnson, Joakim Noah, Aaron Gray

Washington:
PG- Arenas SG- Stevenson SF- Butler PF- Jamison C- Haywood
Bench: Randy Foye, Nick Young, Mike Miller, Andray Blatche, Javale McGee

Atlanta:
PG- Bibby SG- Johnson SF- M. Williams PF- Smith C- Horford
Bench: Jeff Teague, Jamal Crawford, Maurice Evans, Othello Hunter, Zaza Pachulia

Atlanta is real deep as well as Washington but i just cant see Washington getting their **** together AND staying healthy

torontomania
08-08-2009, 08:13 PM
I would rank them that high....if they were playing in Europe, they are built for playing in the Europe, not in the NBA just look at the roster, 2 big men who's game is more built for the perimeter.

Originally European league players:

Jose Calderon
Hedo Turkoglu
Andrea Barngani
Marco Belinelli
Rasho Nasterovic
Roko Ukic

half their squad is originally from the European leagues, so they'll play like a European team, soft D, perimeter oriented, that doesn't win playoff series in the NBA

1- Boston, 2- Cleveland, 3- Orlando, 4- Atlanta, 5- Miami (if they get Boozer), 6- Washington, 7- Toronto, 8- New Jersey/Detroit/Chicago (who ever steps up there

New jersey?? Have you seen their team. Just go look on their team roster and then respond back to me :) They might compete with the knicks for last place.

This is how it should go:
1- Boston 2- Cleveland 3- Orlando 4- Detroit 5- Toronto 6- Washington 7- Atlanta 8- Miami

GodsSon
08-08-2009, 08:16 PM
^ i really dont see how Detroit finishes ahead of us

LanceUpperCut
08-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Raptors sucked last season and got worse. Go get AI then well talk..

Your right man the loss of Jake Voskel and Nathan Jawai is gonna kill us. Hey we still have Banks though.

MajorFloridaFan
08-08-2009, 08:22 PM
Because they are from Canada and there superstar could leave at the end of the season...

KnicksR4Real
08-08-2009, 08:26 PM
They have some nice pieces except they need a good coach. A few years ago they had a great season and made the playoffs

Raoul Duke
08-08-2009, 08:27 PM
I think the Raptor's have positioned themselves nicely should Bosh leave. I mean, he can bring a lot back in trade, correct?

On paper, the team looks nice. But I don't see a lot of defense and I agree with previous posts about having two perimeter oriented big men. They're a soft team up front. I'm taking the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach.

ewells20
08-08-2009, 08:28 PM
PG- Rodney Stuckey
SG- Richard Hamilton
SF- Tayshaun Prince
PF- Charlie Villanueva
C- Ben Wallace
Ben Gordon
Jason Maxiell

...I really don't see how their better than 40-42 wins and a 6 or 7th seed at best..

Boston- 63 wins, Cleveland- 61 wins, Orlando- 55 wins, Atlanta- 50 wins, Washington (if healthy)- 48 wins, Toronto- 47 wins, Miami 45 wins, Detroit 42 wins

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 08:31 PM
They have some nice pieces except they need a good coach. A few years ago they had a great season and made the playoffs

Jay Triano is a Canadian coach but he was invited by Team USA camp to help be assistant coach.

Shouldn't that say alot?

Draco
08-08-2009, 08:33 PM
A lot of posters seem to think spelling out team rosters makes the case for how these teams should finish. That's not going to work this season anymore than it did last season when the "Twin Towers of Bosh and O'Neal" were supposedly going to dominate the league.

Raoul Duke
08-08-2009, 08:34 PM
Miami 45 wins

Try more like 35 wins.

I don't think the Raptor's being from Canada is one of the main reasons they're not taken seriously. I'm a Pistons fan living in Lansing MI, and Toronto is only a little ways further from me than Cleveland. I hate to sound like an ignorant American, but it's practically in America.

Run&Gun
08-08-2009, 08:48 PM
Because they had a terrible season last year and they're Canadian.

These are the facts -- I live in Toronto I should know lol.

lol I love the comment, seriously though I think Toronto has crazy offense but they have no defense what so ever and yeah they had a crappy season last year.

Bruno
08-08-2009, 08:49 PM
Because they had the 3rd worst record in the eastern conference last year; 34-48. Lose Marion, add Turk, it's a moderate upgrade, nothing to celebrate about. Until Bosh commits to being a great defender, like Amare, he won't lead his team far.

MackSnackWrap
08-08-2009, 09:03 PM
We also got a lights out shooter in Belinelli, a tough defender in both Reggie Evans and Antonie Wright, also we have another solid bigman in Rasho.

Plus Bosh is in a contract year and will play the best ball of his career in order to prove himself to the rest of the league.

There is no doubt in my mind the raptors are going to be a scary team to face this year and will be battling for homecourt in the east

Ye this pretty much sums up what I think, Watch out for the hungr raptors( Breakout Year for Bosh to prove himself same goes for a #1 pick by the name Bargnani who has to prove himself)

torontomania
08-08-2009, 09:09 PM
^ i really dont see how Detroit finishes ahead of us

Sorry i meant to put Atlanta in that spot.

magichatnumber9
08-08-2009, 09:34 PM
I agree I'm looking forward to the new look Raptors.

slack_justin
08-08-2009, 10:03 PM
1/2: boston orlando
3:clev.
4/5/6:det.tor.atl in no particular order
7/8:chi.was.or miami close

either way spots 4-8 will be fought for and all those teams will probably be in spots where we dont think they will be in.. that said i believe ATL is way over-rated and may fall to the 9th spot

punkz
08-08-2009, 10:25 PM
well, gotta love all the attention toronto is receiving in this thread :)

anyhow, i believe you gotta still give credit to the organization for what they have done during the off season with the roster moves they've made. arguing whether they can compete with the big dogs in the east is meaningless at this point (by the way, i'm a raptor fan and there's no way they can compete with them, not yet at least),

first of all, some people here are saying that toronto only improved slightly by replacing marion with turk, but what about detroit, who replaced AI & Sheed with Gordon & Charlie V? i mean how much of an improvement is that, especially considering how much cap room they had to start the offeseason? raptors on the other hand only had about 10 mil in cap room to start and turned that into turk, wright, jack, belinelli and rasho. in addition, they had a good draft by picking derozan and traded kapono for evans, which i think was a good move for the raps, no matter how ineffective people think evans is. they still might not be done because they can still bring back guys like delfino or graham if they want to.

so shouldn't some credit be due for things they have done during the off season? i honestly believe only a handful of gms in the league could have done a better job with this raptor team, given the situation they were in to start the offseason.

Bluerapoileagle
08-08-2009, 10:37 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

Well, I guess you Americans don't hear about this stuff, but a guy once ran half-way across the country on ONE LEG to raise money for cancer research. I don't know what you call "amazing" but to me that is pretty amazing.

Bluerapoileagle
08-08-2009, 10:41 PM
toronto doesnt get any love because no one cares about canada

That's pretty much what Americans are taught in school.

Draco
08-08-2009, 10:42 PM
That's pretty much what Americans are taught in school.

Not everyone. I like Canada and spend a lot of time up there.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 10:47 PM
Not everyone. I like Canada and spend a lot of time up there.

You moved up my cool chart.

Raph12
08-08-2009, 10:47 PM
^^^ You said they traded their 2nd best player for Hedo, I thought they gave up Marion, not Calderon. Marion was a system guy, Phoenix works wonders for his career but he was nothing special in Miami or Toronto. He couldn't even make the Eastern all star team. Theres a reason why he was traded for Jermaine O'Neal. Marion is washed now. He was good with Nash because Nash was a good fast break pg. He may suceed with the Mavs because of kid but who knows. Is he even going to start? The Raptors deffinately improved. Hedo is a very good player who is the wing player who can complement Bosh as a threat to put up big numbers. I really liked the Derozan pick, I think he'll be a good player this year even tho he is fairly raw. Bargs has been making huge strides and I think that will only continue this season. Jack is a good backup and Belinelli was a very good pickup. I live in the Bay Area and Nellie is a piece of **** for screwing up again. If Marco gets some good PT then he'll be able to contribute. Raptors are way ahead of the heat and the Bulls and are right around the Hawks I think. The Hawks and Raptors will fight it out for home court advantage.

All the talk about Marion not doing this and that in Miami and Toronto still doesn't consider the fact that Marion is a better defender and rebounder at the 3 and 4 than most guys in the league, whereas Hedo is less-than-average at both defense and rebounding and he only plays the 3. Hedo is better than Marion overall no doubt, but definitely not a true shooter or closer and his playmaking is flawed with all of his turnovers commited, but hopefully it will not be necessary because Raps have Caulderon to make plays. I have followed Orlando for years and have never liked Turk, he was extremely inconsistant in every aspect of his game and would take bad shots regularly without any conscience. No doubt he makes TO better but IMO not automatically the #4 team in the East, they'll have to earn that title next season.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 10:51 PM
All the talk about Marion not doing this and that in Miami and Toronto still doesn't consider the fact that Marion is a better defender and rebounder at the 3 and 4 than most guys in the league, whereas Hedo is less-than-average at both defense and rebounding and he only plays the 3. Hedo is better than Marion overall no doubt, but definitely not a true shooter or closer and his playmaking is flawed with all of his turnovers commited, but hopefully it will not be necessary because Raps have Calderon to make plays. I have followed Orlando for years and have never liked Turk, he was extremely inconsistant in every aspect of his game and would take bad shots regularly without any conscience. No doubt he makes TO better but IMO not automatically the #4 team in the East, they'll have to earn that title next season.

Not to start an arguement but were you liking Turkoglu when he got you all those clutch plays in the playoffs?

Bluerapoileagle
08-08-2009, 11:00 PM
You moved up my cool chart.

Yeah me too, you don't see very many Americans that are like that.

Draco
08-08-2009, 11:02 PM
Yeah me too, you don't see very many Americans that are like that.

Well, I'm not saying that I prefer Canada to America but I do like Canada.

FaceDown91
08-08-2009, 11:11 PM
Toronto should rename their team the Toronto Europeans. Seriously.

Jose Calderon - European (don't know exact country but obviously not American)
Demar Derozen - European (same as Calderon)
Hedo Turq - European (same as Calderon)
Chris Bosh - American (only one lol)
Bargs - European (Same as Calderon)

:laugh2:

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 11:23 PM
Toronto should rename their team the Toronto Europeans. Seriously.

Jose Calderon - European (don't know exact country but obviously not American)
Demar Derozen - European (same as Calderon)
Hedo Turq - European (same as Calderon)
Chris Bosh - American (only one lol)
Bargs - European (Same as Calderon)

:laugh2:

Derozan is from Compton BTW.

We can be called the United Nations instead.

Bargnani, Calderon, Turkoglu, Ukic, Nesterovic, and Belinelli.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-08-2009, 11:23 PM
Well, I'm not saying that I prefer Canada to America but I do like Canada.

Ya but just because you like Canada makes you cool.

:cool:

Bluerapoileagle
08-08-2009, 11:28 PM
Toronto should rename their team the Toronto Europeans. Seriously.

Jose Calderon - European (don't know exact country but obviously not American)
Demar Derozen - European (same as Calderon)
Hedo Turq - European (same as Calderon)
Chris Bosh - American (only one lol)
Bargs - European (Same as Calderon)

:laugh2:

Derozan's American.

alchemist0123
08-08-2009, 11:35 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

steve nash, pamela anderson, gretzky, plus we dont have to worry about not being welcome anywhere we go. plus who really love americans but americans. you go anywhere outside your borders you will find out that the rest of the world has more love for us than you guys can even imagine getting.

heyman321
08-08-2009, 11:49 PM
Toronto should rename their team the Toronto Europeans. Seriously.

Jose Calderon - European (don't know exact country but obviously not American)
Demar Derozen - European (same as Calderon)
Hedo Turq - European (same as Calderon)
Chris Bosh - American (only one lol)
Bargs - European (Same as Calderon)

:laugh2:

LOL How can you not recognize that Demar Derozan does not sound remotely European. In fact he's from California. You're just segregating people, by your standards the NBA should just be called the league with a bunch of black people, some white people, and a few Chinese guys.

jmastert
08-08-2009, 11:51 PM
honestly....cuz toronto is in canada

Raph12
08-08-2009, 11:52 PM
Not to start an arguement but were you liking Turkoglu when he got you all those clutch plays in the playoffs?

Two clutch shots all playoffs long vs going 1 for 12 every other game, Shard hit more clutch shots in the playoffs than Turk ever did and Shard attepted less also. I had a convo with my bro a while back, AJ (my bro) asked me who Orlando should trade to try and get CP3 (he and D12 could dominate the league for years to come [off-topic]) my response was Turk and a couple of other guys. Now I know that this trade would never happen, but my bro asked me why I'd trade Turk over Lewis and I told him that Lewis is a better defender, a better scorer and a better all-around player.

Personally I never liked Turk, I mean the Magic would be on the wrong side of a 15-2 run, squandering a 20-something point lead and Turk would continue to chuck 3s and take off-balance shots. I mean cmon, he hit two nice shots all playoffs long, while Shard hit countless numbers of them, but Turk is still considered to be the clutch player for the Magic.

Let me bring you back, Orlando vs Cleveland Game 4:
Beginning of the Fourth Quarter: Dwight: 16 pts Lewis: 4 pts Turk: 15 pts
End of Game: Dwight: 27 pts Lewis: 17 pts Turk: 15 pts
During 4th and OT:
Dwight - 11 pts on 4 of 6 fg, 3 of 4 ft
Lewis - 13 pts on 4 of 4 fg, 2 of 2 3pt, 3 of 4 ft
Turk - 0 pts on 0 of 5 fg, 0 of 1 3pt

Now this is just the first game that came to my mind, Turk had alot of 1-11 and 2-13 games in the playoffs, 10 of them to be exact that's out of 19, so that means more than 50% of the time Hedo will be off in an important game, in comparison, Shard had only two games like that all playoffs long. Like I said this is just my opinion, but I don't like Hedo for the Magic, I'm much happier with VC, maybe things will be different in TO, who knows.

One thing is for sure no one will take the Raps seriously until they prove themselves, hell before last season no one took the Magic seriously so there you go. Go out there and prove me and all your critics wrong Toronto, show them that your Number 4!

J_M_B
08-08-2009, 11:55 PM
Toronto is a playoff team. They have a solid starting 5 and a great bench. They are looking anywhere from the 4th seed to the 7th in my book.

1.Boston
2.Orlando
3.Cleveland
4.Washington
5.Atlanta
6.Miami
7.Toronto
8.Philadelphia
-------------
9.Chicago
10.Detroit
11.Charlotte
12.Indiana

Diggy_2
08-09-2009, 12:45 AM
Toronto is a playoff team. They have a solid starting 5 and a great bench. They are looking anywhere from the 4th seed to the 7th in my book.

1.Boston
2.Orlando
3.Cleveland
4.Washington
5.Atlanta
6.Miami
7.Toronto
8.Philadelphia
-------------
9.Chicago
10.Detroit
11.Charlotte
12.Indiana

It will look more like
1.Cleveland
2.Orlando
3.Boston
4.Atlanta
5.Chicago
6.Miami
7.Washington
8.Detroit

9.Toronto-Hedo was good but not good enough to turn a losing team into a winning team within 1 season
10.Charlotte
11.Philly
12.Indiana
13.Bucks
14.Knicks

J_M_B
08-09-2009, 12:52 AM
It will look more like
1.Cleveland
2.Orlando
3.Boston
4.Atlanta
5.Chicago
6.Miami
7.Washington
8.Detroit

9.Toronto-Hedo was good but not good enough to turn a losing team into a winning team within 1 season
10.Charlotte
11.Philly
12.Indiana
13.Bucks
14.Knicks

How does Chicago get the 5th seed if they lost a key player in Ben Gordon and haven't replaced him yet?

Unless you believe Chicago will improve from the inside by continuing to develop their young core. Which I believe will happen, but not enough to bump them into the 5th spot.

Draco
08-09-2009, 12:54 AM
How does Chicago get the 5th seed if they lost a key player in Ben Gordon and haven't replaced him yet?

Unless you believe Chicago will improve from the inside by continuing to develop their young core. Which I believe will happen, but not enough to bump them into the 5th spot.

Having Deng and Kirk healthy for an entire season would help. It's almost silly to have to mention it but no one seems to take it into consideration.

Raps08-09 Champ
08-09-2009, 12:57 AM
Two clutch shots all playoffs long vs going 1 for 12 every other game, Shard hit more clutch shots in the playoffs than Turk ever did and Shard attepted less also. I had a convo with my bro a while back, AJ (my bro) asked me who Orlando should trade to try and get CP3 (he and D12 could dominate the league for years to come [off-topic]) my response was Turk and a couple of other guys. Now I know that this trade would never happen, but my bro asked me why I'd trade Turk over Lewis and I told him that Lewis is a better defender, a better scorer and a better all-around player.

Personally I never liked Turk, I mean the Magic would be on the wrong side of a 15-2 run, squandering a 20-something point lead and Turk would continue to chuck 3s and take off-balance shots. I mean cmon, he hit two nice shots all playoffs long, while Shard hit countless numbers of them, but Turk is still considered to be the clutch player for the Magic.

Let me bring you back, Orlando vs Cleveland Game 4:
Beginning of the Fourth Quarter: Dwight: 16 pts Lewis: 4 pts Turk: 15 pts
End of Game: Dwight: 27 pts Lewis: 17 pts Turk: 15 pts
During 4th and OT:
Dwight - 11 pts on 4 of 6 fg, 3 of 4 ft
Lewis - 13 pts on 4 of 4 fg, 2 of 2 3pt, 3 of 4 ft
Turk - 0 pts on 0 of 5 fg, 0 of 1 3pt

Now this is just the first game that came to my mind, Turk had alot of 1-11 and 2-13 games in the playoffs, 10 of them to be exact that's out of 19, so that means more than 50% of the time Hedo will be off in an important game, in comparison, Shard had only two games like that all playoffs long. Like I said this is just my opinion, but I don't like Hedo for the Magic, I'm much happier with VC, maybe things will be different in TO, who knows.

One thing is for sure no one will take the Raps seriously until they prove themselves, hell before last season no one took the Magic seriously so there you go. Go out there and prove me and all your critics wrong Toronto, show them that your Number 4!

Well I was just saying tat if Turkoglu lead us to the finals, I probably would take back some of the hate I would have on him.

blastmasta26
08-09-2009, 12:57 AM
Toronto should rename their team the Toronto Europeans. Seriously.

Jose Calderon - European (don't know exact country but obviously not American)
Demar Derozen - European (same as Calderon)
Hedo Turq - European (same as Calderon)
Chris Bosh - American (only one lol)
Bargs - European (Same as Calderon)

:laugh2:
Derozan is as European as LeBron. Seriously, that's just sad that you think he's European. Besides, the Raptors are outside of the US, so it's fitting that they have a lot of international players.

MacFitz92
08-09-2009, 01:07 AM
Maybe because this is virtually the same team as last year + Hedu. Yes their are some other role players, but they don't have a go-to guy, and they aren't well rounded enough to not have a go-to-guy. Every elite team has a go-to guy.

Cleveland - LJ23
LA - Kobe
Magic - Dwight
Celtics - Pierce/KG/Allen
Spurs - Duncan
Mavs - Dirk

I just don't see the Raptors even close to these teams. And 4th though? No. I think the Heat, Bulls, Wizards, Pistons, and Hawks have more talent than the Raptors.

blastmasta26
08-09-2009, 01:09 AM
Maybe because this is virtually the same team as last year + Hedu. Yes their are some other role players, but they don't have a go-to guy, and they aren't well rounded enough to not have a go-to-guy. Every elite team has a go-to guy.

Cleveland - LJ23
LA - Kobe
Magic - Dwight
Celtics - Pierce/KG/Allen
Spurs - Duncan
Mavs - Dirk

I just don't see the Raptors even close to these teams. And 4th though? No. I think the Heat, Bulls, Wizards, Pistons, and Hawks have more talent than the Raptors.
Don't have a go to guy? What about Bosh?

MacFitz92
08-09-2009, 01:09 AM
How does Chicago get the 5th seed if they lost a key player in Ben Gordon and haven't replaced him yet?

Unless you believe Chicago will improve from the inside by continuing to develop their young core. Which I believe will happen, but not enough to bump them into the 5th spot.

Because Rose is an up and coming star. They also get Luol Deng back.

MajorFloridaFan
08-09-2009, 01:17 AM
another reason...they get good then find some way to mess it up

marvILLous
08-09-2009, 01:19 AM
Toronto should rename their team the Toronto Europeans. Seriously.

Jose Calderon - European (don't know exact country but obviously not American)
Demar Derozen - European (same as Calderon)
Hedo Turq - European (same as Calderon)
Chris Bosh - American (only one lol)
Bargs - European (Same as Calderon)

:laugh2:

wowwwwwww hahaha biggggest failure i seen in a while

Jays Claw
08-09-2009, 01:27 AM
The Toronto Raptors don't really get a lot of attention mainly because we are in a different country.

IAMLordRaider
08-09-2009, 01:34 AM
Because they are not a top 2 team in the east. Turkoglu's signing was not that major. I think it's really hard to get love when you are in Canada. Nevertheless, they are a good team.

mjt20mik
08-09-2009, 02:04 AM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

Yes your right Canada hasn't done anything amazing. We haven't invaded countries for the sake of oil, or fuelled bankrupted corporations to exploit citizens even further. How can u even consider us amazing without those two. :eyebrow:

Pathetic.

GodsSon
08-09-2009, 11:07 AM
^ why even bother validating yourself to some of these people...honestly, who cares what they think lol...another reason toronto doesnt get any love is going back over 10 years there have been a handful of players who seemingly insisted they wouldnt play in canada (Kenny Anderson for TO, Francis for Vancouver)...plus sagas like the whole T-Mac incident where part of his reason for wanting out was "it was too cold up there"; funny considering we have the same climate as the entire north eastern US seaboard, which includes NY lol...im just glad we're making improvements as a team this year, have a great FO, great hardcore fans and attendance rates, and MLSE who despite all their shortcomings, are an eternal pool of wealth that wont let this team go anywhere...which is a lot more then A LOT of teams in the US can boast about

mdabstar
08-09-2009, 12:34 PM
I'm not so sure about that.....exsp Chicago they lost there go to guy in Gordon and havent done anything to replace him.

yeah chicago is so overrated with the loss of gordon. rose is good but remember he didnt carry chicago in the boston series.

mdabstar
08-09-2009, 12:36 PM
It will look more like
1.Cleveland
2.Orlando
3.Boston
4.Atlanta
5.Chicago
6.Miami
7.Washington
8.Detroit

9.Toronto-Hedo was good but not good enough to turn a losing team into a winning team within 1 season
10.Charlotte
11.Philly
12.Indiana
13.Bucks
14.Knicks

sorry but the bulls arent that high. they lost gordon and they havent done anything to replace him. ok you have deng and rose...who gives a ****.

mdabstar
08-09-2009, 12:48 PM
Sorry but when has Canada ever done anything "Amazing"????

youre a ******. we have done things that are amazing. you and some americans are soo ignorant. f***ing open youre eyes.

toronto blue jays- 2 straight world series championships
wayne gretzky - best hockey player ever
steve nash- 2 straight mvps
donovan bailey- former world record holder(100 yd dash)
lennox lewis- heavyweight champion also gold medalist in olympics

more canadians are playing pro sports
and CANADA's economy is alot better than AMERICA's

scully8743
08-09-2009, 01:04 PM
cause they suck

SA5195
08-09-2009, 01:15 PM
cause they suck

And can you prove that? We didn't make people lose hundred thousands of jobs just cause of "wall street journal" or whatever you Americans call it.

BTW people there wouldn't be any basketball without Canada, you know why? cause a Canadian man actually invented a basketball, so before you talk **** about Canada, think about it, your making fun of the country that invented a sport that for some reason all you Americans like.

Grizz/Cowboys09
08-09-2009, 01:45 PM
Yes your right Canada hasn't done anything amazing. We haven't invaded countries for the sake of oil, or fuelled bankrupted corporations to exploit citizens even further. How can u even consider us amazing without those two. :eyebrow:

Pathetic.


lmao...Canada is like the United States' little sister.....the only reason they exist the way they exist is because big brother is there protecting her...everything in Canada's history revolves around the United States...I wonder do other countries even consider Canada a country...or the 51st state.


lol, sorry man, I dated this girl from North Bay, Ontario and we would always jokingly take shots at each other's country...i'm totally just messin with you

oh yeah, thanks for the Grizzlies Canada....but yall can have Brian Adams and Celine Dion back

Grizz/Cowboys09
08-09-2009, 01:48 PM
And can you prove that? We didn't make people lose hundred thousands of jobs just cause of "wall street journal" or whatever you Americans call it.

BTW people there wouldn't be any basketball without Canada, you know why? cause a Canadian man actually invented a basketball, so before you talk **** about Canada, think about it, your making fun of the country that invented a sport that for some reason all you Americans like.

wow, i thought you were fully shiznit.....but I checked and you're right....thanks for the knowledge

so why isn't Canada ever any good in international bball?

ink
08-09-2009, 02:05 PM
Nothing good is going to come of this thread.