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DynaMike
08-06-2009, 05:49 PM
Offense gets too much attention. I would like to know what everyone thinks about the defensive side of things.

DCSportsIsPain
08-06-2009, 05:51 PM
What's the question? Team defense? Individual defense?

Bashna
08-06-2009, 05:52 PM
It's more difficult, so less players try. But i think O is still much more important in winning games, because if you F-up there, you're basically rewarding the other team for not trying/ being succesful with their D (if they don't play hard D, or if they do)

Chronz
08-06-2009, 05:53 PM
We need a tier grade system with defenses. I hate when I see one guy praise a guy for being a good defender and another say the exact opposite about him.

DetroitRipCity
08-06-2009, 06:03 PM
It wasnt me

IBleedPurple
08-06-2009, 06:13 PM
Shame on you for not including the Nuggets.

Because the Nets, Hawks, Hornets, Raptors, & the Artest/Yao-less Rockets don't sniff the top 5

tland22
08-06-2009, 06:35 PM
I voted Celtics.

Someone should post the list of the Top 10 defenses from last year...thatd be great

DynaMike
08-06-2009, 06:41 PM
Shame on you for not including the Nuggets.

Because the Nets, Hawks, Hornets, Raptors, & the Artest/Yao-less Rockets don't sniff the top 5


The Nuggets are known for their scoring, not defense. Besides I suppose I should have just listed every team in the NBA, cause there's always going to be someone unhappy that their team isn't on there.

clutchski
08-06-2009, 06:41 PM
The Celtics or Lakers I think.

DynaMike
08-06-2009, 06:42 PM
What's the question? Team defense? Individual defense?

Overall defensive--Team

DCSportsIsPain
08-06-2009, 06:54 PM
Overall defensive--Team

Cool. Couldn't see the poll when I first looked at the thread. :)

b_rad23
08-06-2009, 06:57 PM
I like the celtics. Definitely the best frontcourt defenders in KG, Perkins, Sheed and even Pierce.

They also have Rondo, who is pretty damn good himself.

Denver-boy
08-06-2009, 06:58 PM
NUGZ????? dude have you seen what billups did, they should be easily #4 0r #3 defense. shame

tland22
08-06-2009, 07:08 PM
Shame on you for not including the Nuggets.

Because the Nets, Hawks, Hornets, Raptors, & the Artest/Yao-less Rockets don't sniff the top 5

WRONG. Last year Hornets were a top 10 D...so yea.....thats sniffing it. I dont know on the others, but I know of the Hornets for sure. Denver was 18th in defense. With 101points allowed the nuggets are 27-22 their record

Catfish1314
08-06-2009, 07:11 PM
The Celtics have had an excellent team defense the last 2 seasons, especially with Garnett on the floor. He's constantly pointing and directing his teammates like a point guard directs an offense. He and Perkins are also superb post defenders.

dtmagnet
08-06-2009, 07:15 PM
I'd have to say the Celtics look like they're going to have the best D next year.

sp1derm00
08-06-2009, 07:39 PM
I want to see how offenses are going to penetrate a perimeter defense of Brown, Kobe, and Artest and then also get past two seven footers in Pau and Bynum, both of whom average more than 1 bpg.

azkarraga
08-06-2009, 08:21 PM
spurs. you'll see

TheMicrowave
08-06-2009, 08:25 PM
The best defense to me would be the team that average the lowest points against them. I don't know what other way to look at how good a defense is. I am sure you could you nick pick something, but that stat will have a huge influence on it. I think the thread creator should include that into his/her discussion.

TheMicrowave
08-06-2009, 08:26 PM
Everyone seems to just pick their team. This is annoying.

TheMicrowave
08-06-2009, 08:32 PM
1. Cleveland (92.?)
2. San Antonio (92.?)
3. Boston (93.?)
4. Portland (94.?)
5. Orlando (94.?)

Lakers I am sure people are interested let up 99.? ppg last season.

They averaged the least points against last season. The chart was not in order on NBA.com.

The Lakers, Cavs, and Boston were also among the top in point difference a game (7 to 8 more points than their opponents).


The Lakers

J_M_B
08-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Boston Celtics probably have the best defense next season

BULLSDROSE1
08-06-2009, 08:36 PM
I say the Celtics even though I hate them

TheKing23
08-06-2009, 08:38 PM
Boston or Cleveland

Vidball
08-06-2009, 08:40 PM
During the regular season the Lakers were the 6th best in FG% allowed, tied for 2nd in 3PT% allowed, and 4th in TO's forced a game. During the postseason they were 2nd in both FG% allowed and 3PT% allowed, and 3rd in TO's forced. Now they've added RonRon...I think the Lakers will have the best D. Aside from them I think the Celtics and Orlando will have stingy defenses as well.

Bruno
08-06-2009, 08:42 PM
Shaq will get exposed on pick and rolls, Duncan is older, Boston is older, and the Lakers are still a big ? I can't decide.

GeneWaldron#5
08-06-2009, 08:45 PM
The best defense to me would be the team that average the lowest points against them. I don't know what other way to look at how good a defense is. I am sure you could you nick pick something, but that stat will have a huge influence on it. I think the thread creator should include that into his/her discussion.

Obviously that is one of the best ways to look at it but the pace each team plays at has to be taken in to account. My Blazers weren't a great defensive team last year but only gave up 94 ppg (4th best). That has a lot more to do with the fact that we play a slow pace than that we were a great defensive team.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable1.html#top shows the opp ppg for each team last season.


As for the best defensive team I'd have to say the Celtics. They probably have the best defensive frontcourt with KG and Perkins. Allen and Pierce are no slouches and are vastly experienced and Rajon Rondo is looking like a very good defensive PG.

The Lakers are pretty good as well. The Artest-Kobe combination on the wings must be as good as any other team in the league.

ManRam
08-06-2009, 08:57 PM
LOL at all the Laker votes. Artest is a great defender, but Ariza was no slouch (perhaps a better team defender). 12 teams had better defenses than them last year. So why are they going to jump all those teams. Again, I'd bet my left nut on them not finishing with the best defense (points allowed).

I voted Boston...SA a close second. Both were top 3 last year, and there is no reason why they wont drop off.

mikedesi1004
08-06-2009, 09:13 PM
i voted boston

Mavrix
08-06-2009, 09:14 PM
Mavs because of Marion and Howard

magichatnumber9
08-06-2009, 09:25 PM
Kevin Garnett Needs to have a heart to heart with Paul Pierce about getting back to playing hard core defense like he did that championship season. He did not commit like he did that year and it showed.

the 1 and only!
08-06-2009, 09:37 PM
LOL at all the Laker votes. Artest is a great defender, but Ariza was no slouch (perhaps a better team defender). 12 teams had better defenses than them last year. So why are they going to jump all those teams. Again, I'd bet my left nut on them not finishing with the best defense (points allowed).

I voted Boston...SA a close second. Both were top 3 last year, and there is no reason why they wont drop off.

finishing with the best defense (points allowed) doesn't necessarily mean your the best defense....keep that in mind!

blastmasta26
08-06-2009, 09:42 PM
The Nuggets are known for their scoring, not defense. Besides I suppose I should have just listed every team in the NBA, cause there's always going to be someone unhappy that their team isn't on there.
Nah, I know that my team the Knicks don't belong here. So I'm fine with that, but Raptors should definitely not be here, especially since Marion is gone.

B.JenningsMVP
08-06-2009, 09:47 PM
Where are the Warriors on the poll???????????

ManRam
08-06-2009, 09:48 PM
finishing with the best defense (points allowed) doesn't necessarily mean your the best defense....keep that in mind!

Than how else do you quantify best defense? I think the name of the game is to score more points than your opponent...so having the best defense means you allow the fewest points.

GSW fan
08-06-2009, 09:51 PM
Spurs and Celtics

GSW fan
08-06-2009, 09:51 PM
then Cavs

GSW fan
08-06-2009, 09:53 PM
Lakers are not even a top defensive team. they shouldnt be tied for first

the 1 and only!
08-06-2009, 09:54 PM
Than how else do you quantify best defense? I think the name of the game is to score more points than your opponent...so having the best defense means you allow the fewest points.


take a team like the spurs or cleveland for example, that like to slow down the game, and try to pick apart their opponent, that generally in itself would make it tough for opponents to score 95+ points on them..it's that easy.

ManRam
08-06-2009, 10:03 PM
take a team like the spurs or cleveland for example, that like to slow down the game, and try to pick apart their opponent, that generally in itself would make it tough for opponents to score 95+ points on them..it's that easy.

Valid point. But a good offense helps make a good defense.

Just look at the top 4 points allowed defenses last year. Cleveland, Boston, San Antonio and Orlando. Are you going to argue that those weren't the 4 best defensive teams last year???

It's the best way to determine which teams are the best defensive teams. If you think it isn't...tell me a better empirical way to do so?

IBleedPurple
08-06-2009, 10:07 PM
The Nuggets are known for their scoring, not defense. Besides I suppose I should have just listed every team in the NBA, cause there's always going to be someone unhappy that their team isn't on there.

Denver was 3rd in steals, .1 steal per game from 1st. They were also 2nd in blocks, 5th in causing turnovers, 4th in opponents FG% (1% away from 1st). And if you watched the Nuggets at all last season, you'd know that defense is a huge part of their game.


The best defense to me would be the team that average the lowest points against them. I don't know what other way to look at how good a defense is. I am sure you could you nick pick something, but that stat will have a huge influence on it. I think the thread creator should include that into his/her discussion.

That is flawed by how long a team possesses the ball, and the style of offense they play. Some offenses score quickly, others run down the shot clock. For quick scoring offenses, that gives the other team more opportunities.


WRONG. Last year Hornets were a top 10 D...so yea.....thats sniffing it. I dont know on the others, but I know of the Hornets for sure. Denver was 18th in defense. With 101points allowed the nuggets are 27-22 their record

Okafor's defense isn't as good as Chandler's, although EO will likely stay healthy. They were good at opponents FG% & ppg, but 23rd in forcing turnovers, 15th in steals, and 26th in blocks. They have a few issues to shore up first.

IversonIsKrazy
08-07-2009, 12:06 AM
top 3 are Celtics, Cavs, and Spurs. How come the Spurs are so underrated, like how is there more votes for Lakers than Spurs, thats a joke when it comes to defense.

J_M_B
08-07-2009, 12:54 AM
Where are the Warriors on the poll???????????

Your joking right? They gave up over 112 ppg last season

loufor2
08-07-2009, 01:09 AM
If your going to include the raptors, nets, and heat, why wouldn't you include every team in the league...?

Vidball
08-07-2009, 01:32 AM
Just look at the top 4 points allowed defenses last year. Cleveland, Boston, San Antonio and Orlando. Are you going to argue that those weren't the 4 best defensive teams last year???

It's the best way to determine which teams are the best defensive teams. If you think it isn't...tell me a better empirical way to do so?

It's called Team Defensive Efficiency and it takes into account pace of the game. Team Defensive Efficiency is basically the number of points a team allows per 100 possessions. It's ridiculous to not take the pace of the game into consideration when looking at team statistics. For example, the Knicks (in a run n' gun system) averaged 42.14 Rebounds Per Game last season (good enough for the 8th highest average in the league)...HOWEVER their opponents averaged over 46 rpg last season--the Knicks got outrebounded by 4rpg!!! Do you still consider them the 8th best rebounding team in the NBA? I hope not--the pace of the game allows 88 rpg in an average Knicks game and they grab less than half of them. The pace of the game has to be taken into consideration which is why Team Defensive Efficiency is the most powerful stat in determining strong defenses.

Anyways, here is a breakdown for that stat for this season:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/?cat=team&pan=2153&conf=0
1. Cavs
2. Magic
3. Celtics
4. Lakers
5. Rockets
6. Spurs

Here is a breakdown for Defensive Efficiency for the playoffs:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=3&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonT ype%3d3%26league%3dnba
1. Cavs
2. Lakers
3. Heat
4. Magic
5. Celtics
6. Nuggets

There is also a way to rank defenses which is similar to the Defensive Efficiency rankings that has been formulated by Kevin Pelton (the mastermind in charge of the Blazers organization)...I don't know if anyone cares, but here's the formula he uses (I'm quoting Pelton himself right now):

I use a .96 multiplier on the possession term (FGA + (.44*FTA) - OR + TO) to account for team offensive rebounds (basically, when the defense tips the ball out of bounds after a missed shot).

So Pelton's Defensive Efficiency = Points * 100 divided by that possession term with the multiplier included.
http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/3/2/773198/kevin-pelton-blows-minds-a


Again, needless to say, it is ridiculous to try and equate what teams are the best defensively by pure ppg allowed. Who would you rather be, the team that allowed 90 points while you had 90 possessions yourself, or the team that allowed 95 points but you had 110 possessions or opportunities to score? This past season the Cavs had the best D. I believe that with the addition of Artest in the lineup the Lakers will have the best this coming season.

Teeboy1487
08-07-2009, 01:40 AM
Celtics (:mad:) and Spurs.

Chronz
08-07-2009, 01:43 AM
Yea nobody gos by per game averages nowadays manram. The best way to measure a teams defense is by breakind down the 4 factors. eFG%, Reb%,T.O.%, and ft/a.

clehmun
08-07-2009, 01:49 AM
laker fan, but celtic's defense is just too good (2 years ago), and i think they can still put up the same great D.

lakers' D hopefully improves, if their defense goes top 5, they're the favorites.

CELTICS4LYFE
08-07-2009, 08:24 AM
top 3 are Celtics, Cavs, and Spurs. How come the Spurs are so underrated, like how is there more votes for Lakers than Spurs, thats a joke when it comes to defense.

:clap:

arkanian215
08-07-2009, 09:59 AM
how can it be the lakers? they just lost one of their best defenders....

GAWDtv
08-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Cavs just got much better on D. Two legit 7 foot Centers to keep the lane clogged for 48 mins. Bron is a shot blocker with more opertunity now that the wings have to pull up as they avoid Shaq/Illy in the paint. Jamario Moon is a strong weakside blocker as well. Anthony Parker was Toronto's guard of the top Perimeter guy, giving him that job free's up Bron to roam more and an easier cover on the 2nd or 3rd options.

ManRam
08-07-2009, 10:40 AM
It's called Team Defensive Efficiency and it takes into account pace of the game. Team Defensive Efficiency is basically the number of points a team allows per 100 possessions. It's ridiculous to not take the pace of the game into consideration when looking at team statistics. For example, the Knicks (in a run n' gun system) averaged 42.14 Rebounds Per Game last season (good enough for the 8th highest average in the league)...HOWEVER their opponents averaged over 46 rpg last season--the Knicks got outrebounded by 4rpg!!! Do you still consider them the 8th best rebounding team in the NBA? I hope not--the pace of the game allows 88 rpg in an average Knicks game and they grab less than half of them. The pace of the game has to be taken into consideration which is why Team Defensive Efficiency is the most powerful stat in determining strong defenses.

Anyways, here is a breakdown for that stat for this season:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stats/?cat=team&pan=2153&conf=0
1. Cavs
2. Magic
3. Celtics
4. Lakers
5. Rockets
6. Spurs

Here is a breakdown for Defensive Efficiency for the playoffs:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats?sort=defeff&seasonType=3&league=nba&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fteamstats%3fsort%3ddefeff%26seasonT ype%3d3%26league%3dnba
1. Cavs
2. Lakers
3. Heat
4. Magic
5. Celtics
6. Nuggets

There is also a way to rank defenses which is similar to the Defensive Efficiency rankings that has been formulated by Kevin Pelton (the mastermind in charge of the Blazers organization)...I don't know if anyone cares, but here's the formula he uses (I'm quoting Pelton himself right now):

http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/3/2/773198/kevin-pelton-blows-minds-a


Again, needless to say, it is ridiculous to try and equate what teams are the best defensively by pure ppg allowed. Who would you rather be, the team that allowed 90 points while you had 90 possessions yourself, or the team that allowed 95 points but you had 110 possessions or opportunities to score? This past season the Cavs had the best D. I believe that with the addition of Artest in the lineup the Lakers will have the best this coming season.

Okay. Very true. And I do think that is a great way to determine it.

But, still, it proves the Lakers weren't the best defensive team in the NBA and that the Cavs, Magic and Celtics were all better. I know the Lakers did well in the playoffs. The Celtics didn't have KG, and the Magic didn't have Nelson (terrible shut down defender, amazing team defender).

I also don't think PPG is a "terrible" way of determining it. Year in and year out, if you look at points allowed per game, the best defensive teams always are the ones allowing the fewest points...like the Spurs and the Pistons of the past.

cowboyz180
08-07-2009, 10:47 AM
where r the nuggets?

CELTICS4LYFE
08-07-2009, 10:47 AM
how can it be the lakers? they just lost one of their best defenders....

they also gained a better one....but those votes r from the homers...

cowboyz180
08-07-2009, 10:48 AM
celtics get my vote

DynaMike
08-07-2009, 12:35 PM
If your going to include the raptors, nets, and heat, why wouldn't you include every team in the league...?


Why don't some of you focus a little more on voting for the team you think will have the best D and a little less on what teams don't belong on the poll. You have nothing better to do? Seriously? Wow.