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View Full Version : Would you consider Kobe's combination of talent/skills/abilities as "Rare"?



TannerOwnsDevin
08-04-2009, 09:54 PM
y' know like shaq, magic,lebron, jordan and chamberlain?



shaq was just a dominant beast. never seen anyone like him in the last who knows when. the only player comparable to a rime shaq was chamberlain.


magic. magic was a very special player. he was a tall point guard, great leadership and uncanny decision making and court vision. up to this day. no one has really challenged magic johnson's legacy as the best PG in history of the league


jordan- nuff said.


lebron- kid id only 24 y/o but he's already breaking records in the league. he's big, strong,quick and can jump like a 6'6 180 lb wingman. he share's magic johnson's court vision, he has the hops of a prime shawn kemp, he's explosive like nique and pound for pound as strong as shaq. he already has led a weak cavaliers team in the finals at the age of 21, has an mvp, a scoring title and whole lot more to come.




with kobe, im not sure. he can score a lot. and i mean a whole lot when he's hot. but is that enough to consider him a "rare" player? i mean in history, there are a lot of nba players that can score like kobe, but they are not by any means special.

discuss

Mavrix
08-04-2009, 10:03 PM
Obviously? This thread is pointless

RLundi
08-04-2009, 10:04 PM
um...yes.

Ripper Gein
08-04-2009, 10:07 PM
y' know like shaq, magic,lebron, jordan and chamberlain?



shaq was just a dominant beast. never seen anyone like him in the last who knows when. the only player comparable to a rime shaq was chamberlain.


magic. magic was a very special player. he was a tall point guard, great leadership and uncanny decision making and court vision. up to this day. no one has really challenged magic johnson's legacy as the best PG in history of the league


jordan- nuff said.


lebron- kid id only 24 y/o but he's already breaking records in the league. he's big, strong,quick and can jump like a 6'6 180 lb wingman. he share's magic johnson's court vision, he has the hops of a prime shawn kemp, he's explosive like nique and pound for pound as strong as shaq. he already has led a weak cavaliers team in the finals at the age of 21, has an mvp, a scoring title and whole lot more to come.




with kobe, im not sure. he can score a lot. and i mean a whole lot when he's hot. but is that enough to consider him a "rare" player? i mean in history, there are a lot of nba players that can score like kobe, but they are not by any means special.

discuss

Dude just stop YOUR a Laker hater and just start these Laker threads to get em Flamed just stop :pity:

sp1derm00
08-04-2009, 10:07 PM
please, stop the hate.

a good sign of how great you are is how much blind hatred you're drawing... kobe draws a LOT of hate.

a recent example of this theory is currently in practice. lebron's shadow and greatness is growing, as is the growing blind hatred towards him.

mambastatus
08-04-2009, 10:15 PM
no, his talent combination is ordinary. There are usually 5-10 kobes in every nba draft. Nothing special............ dumb-a-s-s

TannerOwnsDevin
08-04-2009, 10:27 PM
No personal attacks please. Im not insulting your mother^


Anyway, I think you guys are taking this out of context. I never said Kobe is not great I just think that a guy who has a career average of 26 ppg in 45% shooting is special when we're putting things in perspective.



When Shaq was in his prime, you look around the league and no one is like him. He just dominated physically. remember the league even changed a rule in the league and coaches started using a "Hack-a-Shaq" strategy to stop him. I dont see this with Kobe.


Magic? I dont know, Magic was a very very special player. On his rookie year, he led the Lakers to an NBA title playing 5 positions.


Lebron, again, give him a player like Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol and I can assure you he'll lead them to a title (something Kobe failed to do against the Celtics). Kobe needed more help like Bynum, Ariza along with an inferior team like Orlando to win a title.


Kobe can score, but so can Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins and Gilber Arenas. IMO the only difference between those above and Kobe is that they never had a player like Shaq or Pau Gasol as their teammate.

TannerOwnsDevin
08-04-2009, 10:27 PM
Dude just stop YOUR a Laker hater and just start these Laker threads to get em Flamed just stop :pity:

Yeah, I hate the Lakers thats why I complimented Magic Johnson and Shaq.:rolleyes:

mambastatus
08-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Its more than scoring. Its how he controls the whole game. He doesn't always go for the stats either. He hasn't needed to average 35 for his career. But when his team needs him he has the ability to turn it on and off at will. If he never would have had great teammates he would have averaged more points

RLundi
08-04-2009, 10:42 PM
No personal attacks please. Im not insulting your mother^


Anyway, I think you guys are taking this out of context. I never said Kobe is not great I just think that a guy who has a career average of 26 ppg in 45% shooting is special when we're putting things in perspective.



When Shaq was in his prime, you look around the league and no one is like him. He just dominated physically. remember the league even changed a rule in the league and coaches started using a "Hack-a-Shaq" strategy to stop him. I dont see this with Kobe.


Magic? I dont know, Magic was a very very special player. On his rookie year, he led the Lakers to an NBA title playing 5 positions.


Lebron, again, give him a player like Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol and I can assure you he'll lead them to a title (something Kobe failed to do against the Celtics). Kobe needed more help like Bynum, Ariza along with an inferior team like Orlando to win a title.


Kobe can score, but so can Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins and Gilber Arenas. IMO the only difference between those above and Kobe is that they never had a player like Shaq or Pau Gasol as their teammate.

Kobe has 4 rings.

TannerOwnsDevin
08-04-2009, 10:48 PM
Kobe has 4 rings.

Because he had Shaq and Pau Gasol...I think Arenas could possibly come up with a set of rings too if he had a prime Shaq in his side.

fast_break
08-04-2009, 10:53 PM
and Shaq only won rings when he had Kobe and Wade

Toenail Clipper
08-04-2009, 11:05 PM
His skills are rare.
That is why he is considered the best scorer in the NBA, despite his lack of career PPG.
His footwork, his stroke, and how he gets the shots are rare.

How can you see that LeBron has better talent than Kobe?
BLINDDDDD

Kobe4Life
08-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Because he had Shaq and Pau Gasol...I think Arenas could possibly come up with a set of rings too if he had a prime Shaq in his side.

You just made our point ...by adding Arenas wow your dumb bro. Your right it always takes two. Kobe + Shaq. Arena+Shaq, even though ur wrong they wouldn't produce crap. but thanks for making the point.

2ndly we all know kobe is going down as one of the greatest players of all time dont kid yourself and try to get down our throats. Hes with jordan , both of them are the greatest. end of story bro.

blazerman
08-04-2009, 11:20 PM
please, stop the hate.

a good sign of how great you are is how much blind hatred you're drawing... kobe draws a LOT of hate.

a recent example of this theory is currently in practice. lebron's shadow and greatness is growing, as is the growing blind hatred towards him.

I think you're wrong on that one. Lebron is at the top now and Laker fans are the ones who are in denial of sorts because there is someone who is as good or better than Kobe now. Things change all the time in sports and players only stay on top for so long even ones as great as Kobe.

I feel priviledged to have been able to watch such a great player as bryant even if he's been a thorn in my team's side for over a decade.

Look at it like this Lebron is the MVP but Kobe rules the world (being the Champions is by far sweeter than an MVP trophy). Kobe is a rare breed and is electrifying to watch!

lorenz00
08-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Obviously? This thread is pointless

lol agreed

jmastert
08-04-2009, 11:25 PM
and Shaq only won rings when he had Kobe and Wade

shaq is the arguably the best center ever dont diss his game

madiaz3
08-04-2009, 11:25 PM
Kobe can score, but so can Bernard King, Dominique Wilkins and Gilber Arenas. IMO the only difference between those above and Kobe is that they never had a player like Shaq or Pau Gasol as their teammate.

Bernard King and Ewing could have been something special. To compare Gilbert Arenas with Kobe or any others is just plain silly.

The assumption that any number of guards could have won with a prime Shaq is ridiculous. Wade has, and likely could have won more because he has honed a variety of skills and is a top 3 player in the league. I'll still say no to Prime Vince Carter,T-Mac and Pierce being paired with Shaq and leading to a 3peat. Maybe a ring for T-Mac during his best years.

QuaLiThADoN
08-04-2009, 11:28 PM
Title this Lebron is better than Kobe because that is what you meant because you are upset kobe won the poll for best player.... you added the other names as a cover up....

SeoulBeatz
08-04-2009, 11:34 PM
y' know like shaq, magic,lebron, jordan and chamberlain?



shaq was just a dominant beast. never seen anyone like him in the last who knows when. the only player comparable to a rime shaq was chamberlain.


magic. magic was a very special player. he was a tall point guard, great leadership and uncanny decision making and court vision. up to this day. no one has really challenged magic johnson's legacy as the best PG in history of the league


jordan- nuff said.


lebron- kid id only 24 y/o but he's already breaking records in the league. he's big, strong,quick and can jump like a 6'6 180 lb wingman. he share's magic johnson's court vision, he has the hops of a prime shawn kemp, he's explosive like nique and pound for pound as strong as shaq. he already has led a weak cavaliers team in the finals at the age of 21, has an mvp, a scoring title and whole lot more to come.




with kobe, im not sure. he can score a lot. and i mean a whole lot when he's hot. but is that enough to consider him a "rare" player? i mean in history, there are a lot of nba players that can score like kobe, but they are not by any means special.

discuss


how does lebron get into the category and kobe not?

kobe is THE most talented player ive seen since Jordan.

u are either delusional or a DIABOLICAL hater.

Kobe is THE BEST SCORER IN THE NBA. He is also one of the best DEFENDERS in the NBA. He is also THE MOST CLUTCH player in the NBA. He is ALSO a superb passer and pretty good rebounder for his size.

He also has 4 rings to his name....

it really isnt even worth explaining to u.

he does things no other player in the nba can do. plain and simple.

he is the best player since mj.

GCOOKIE7
08-04-2009, 11:37 PM
I think you need to change that poll. He is definitely more than JUST a scorer. And isn't it pretty special to be able to score like he does, and when he does and how he does...

I'm not a fan of Kobe but he's undeniably great.

LA_Raiders
08-04-2009, 11:45 PM
He is something else...

Kobe2324
08-04-2009, 11:53 PM
your not considered the best player in the world for so many years and not be a rare talent. You dont score 81 points if you are just a good scorer. He plays defense as well, his foot work probably unmatched in my opinion. And as he is getting older the rest of his game is rising proving that he is much more than a scorer...To say his talent is not rare is absolutely ridiculous, if you believe that his talent isnt rare your just a hater.

kobelaughsatall
08-04-2009, 11:55 PM
this is the same person that made that "are the lakers being left by the competiton" thread. he says he is a laker fan,but i think its a lie just so he can seem unbiased. kobe is without a doubt phenomenal player. he not only scores, but is defensive minded and the best closer in the nba. y don't you look up his list of accomplishments and tell us if you still think he is just a "good" scorer. pointless and dumb thread:eyebrow:

cowboyz180
08-04-2009, 11:58 PM
of course...

theuuord
08-05-2009, 12:02 AM
how does lebron get into the category and kobe not?

kobe is THE most talented player ive seen since Jordan.

u are either delusional or a DIABOLICAL hater.

Kobe is THE BEST SCORER IN THE NBA. He is also one of the best DEFENDERS in the NBA. He is also THE MOST CLUTCH player in the NBA. He is ALSO a superb passer and pretty good rebounder for his size.

He also has 4 rings to his name....

it really isnt even worth explaining to u.

he does things no other player in the nba can do. plain and simple.

he is the best player since mj.

Kobe is great, and a top 5 player in the game today, but he is not the best scorer in the NBA....

tland22
08-05-2009, 12:09 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

His skill set isnt rare at all, in fact it is pretty common in the NBA....thats why it is the NBA, most people are BEASTS. The thing is that KOBE's skills are much more refined and on a much higher level than most of the other people with his same skill set...thats what makes him ridiculously good. Of course he is a rare player, but NOT because of his skill set....its because of the high level and efficiency he performs his skills.

kobelaughsatall
08-05-2009, 12:09 AM
Kobe is great, and a top 5 player in the game today, but he is not the best scorer in the NBA....

so who is the best scorer in the nba of the last few years please inform us... because i haven't seen anyone outscore a whole team through 3 quarters, score 81 points in a regulation game, or settting the new msg record by scoring 61 points

Yanks All Day
08-05-2009, 12:10 AM
Ok I absolutely despise Kobe Bryant, but anyone who says he is outside the top 2 in the game today is just hating. Of course his talent is rare. 4 rings. Shaq and Pau or not. For many years he has been considered the best player, and still may be able to claim that, although I believe LeBron is better all around. You know what separates him from the rest though? In the 4th quarter, when the game is on the line and Kobe has the ball, you basically sit back and say, "He's gonna score, we can't stop him, and we're gonna lose." You can't possibly say that for anyone else in the league, not even LeBron. Not since MJ.

Lakers4ItAll
08-05-2009, 12:15 AM
Why is this still open?

Derick713
08-05-2009, 12:23 AM
Kobe's an interesting case. You'd think at first glance that it is rare to find a player with his abilities. He can do it all and physical he's got it all.

Kobe Bryant isn't in the class of a Shaq, LeBron, Johnson, or Jordan. Sure he has the numbers and talent, but he never seemed able to lift mediocre teams. Sure he's won, but he had three franchise players around him in Gasol, Odom, and Bynum. I've never seen Kobe Bryant take an average team far. LeBron took the Celtics to 7 games with less talent. The Celtics couldn’t stop him. The Celtics stopped Kobe. The Celtics would’ve beaten the Lakers this year if Garnett was healthy.

Kobe Bryant has had the most talent around him the past 2 seasons and now with Artest. I rather build a team with Shaquille or Michael rather than Kobe because they can lift teams and make players look great.

Kobe still needed an elite 7 footer. He couldn’t win with just two good wings in Butler and Odom. Shaquille O’Neal took a team with Damon Jones starting and a second year guard in Dwayne Wade to the Conference Finals. Shaquille O’Neal made Haslem look great.

desertlakeshow
08-05-2009, 12:25 AM
I started watching the game in 1979 and I have seen two players with the same skill set.

MJ and Kobe.

I have seen others that are better shooters, or better defenders, or better passers, or better rebounders.

But not an entire package as these two.

Best two in 30 years.

Derick713
08-05-2009, 12:27 AM
Kobe doesn't have the ability to dominant a series against an elite team like the Shaq's and LeBron's. He got an elite mix of ability, size, and length. He's had great performances and great talent around him. Kobe’s teams are better we he’s a role player who does a bit of everything.

FaceDown91
08-05-2009, 12:30 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9dZAng99iQ&feature=channel_page

HuRRiCaNeS324
08-05-2009, 12:31 AM
What a ****ing stupid *** thread. Im getting a little tired of all these laker related threads. I mean they do have a laker forum and 99% of the threads for the lakers in the nba forum belong in the laker forum.

theuuord
08-05-2009, 12:35 AM
so who is the best scorer in the nba of the last few years please inform us... because i haven't seen anyone outscore a whole team through 3 quarters, score 81 points in a regulation game, or settting the new msg record by scoring 61 points

If you use 25 possessions a game it's not hard to score 30 points. His 81 point game was definitely a masterpiece.

By any overall criteria, though, Kobe is not the best scorer in the game. Points per game? Nope. Field goal percentage? nuh uh. true shooting percentage? not even close. Offensive rating? Still stellar (which is remarkable for a guy with his wear), but still not the best. Offensive win shares? Not even the best on his own team.

We all know Kobe can make unbelievable looking shots, because those are all the highlights. What isn't on the highlight reels are the amount of shots he misses to go along with those makes.

He's a great scorer. One of the best in the NBA. But he's not the single best scorer, and frankly, his legend has been built up a little too much by LA fans.

J4KOP99
08-05-2009, 12:42 AM
I kinda see what your saying and I somewhat agree with you.

He does not jump higher than anybody, he can't over power you and there are better shooters out there. The thing that makes him rare is his ability to take over a game/series. He can't do it to the extent MJ could but that has a lot to do with the difference in style of play. Kobe has a mentality unlike anybody else and that is what makes him better than the rest.

So, no, he cannot jump the highest, shoot the best or overpower you down low like other greats have been able to do, but his will and drive when it comes down to it is unmatched. That is why he is rare.

DCB/LAL
08-05-2009, 01:05 AM
If you use 25 possessions a game it's not hard to score 30 points. His 81 point game was definitely a masterpiece.

By any overall criteria, though, Kobe is not the best scorer in the game. Points per game? Nope. Field goal percentage? nuh uh. true shooting percentage? not even close. Offensive rating? Still stellar (which is remarkable for a guy with his wear), but still not the best. Offensive win shares? Not even the best on his own team.

We all know Kobe can make unbelievable looking shots, because those are all the highlights. What isn't on the highlight reels are the amount of shots he misses to go along with those makes.

He's a great scorer. One of the best in the NBA. But he's not the single best scorer, and frankly, his legend has been built up a little too much by LA fans.

Yeah becaus only Lakers fans say this about him.:rolleyes:


Im sorry ive never seen Magic talk about how great he is or Reggie Miller or Gary Peyton or Chris Webber!!! Yeah they know nothing about basketball obviously or even the players who have Claimed how Kobe is the BEST in the NBA or how difficult it is to guard him T Prince is one of those FYI!! Or how about when Battie talks about guarding him!!! You know what maybe these guys are Laker fans too????:shrug:

Look say what you want about Kobe but his undoubtedly the best scorer in the NBA he just doesn't have to score like he used to but if he wanted he still could and if he wanted to and if he had to he'd be the leagues PPG leader but he doesn't need to anymore so he doesn't!!


He proved that against the Knicks when he felt like going off and guess what??? HE DID!!! for 61!!!

theuuord
08-05-2009, 01:10 AM
Yeah becaus only Lakers fans say this about him.:rolleyes:


Im sorry ive never seen Magic talk about how great he is or Reggie Miller or Gary Peyton or Chris Webber!!! Yeah they know nothing about basketball obviously or even the players who have Claimed how Kobe is the BEST in the NBA or how difficult it is to guard him T Prince is one of those FYI!! Or how about when Battie talks about guarding him!!! You know what maybe these guys are Laker fans too????:shrug:

He's one of the toughest defensive assignments in the NBA. that's absolutely true. But your conjecture doesn't make what you say true.


Look say what you want about Kobe but his undoubtedly the best scorer in the NBA he just doesn't have to score like he used to but if he wanted he still could and if he wanted to and if he had to he'd be the leagues PPG leader but he doesn't need to anymore so he doesn't!!


He proved that against the Knicks when he felt like going off and guess what??? HE DID!!! for 61!!!

Yup. That Knicks defense is extremely difficult for superstars - or anyone for that matter - to score on.

It's not like anyone else scored 50+ or even had almost a triple double against them the next game or anything.

tland22
08-05-2009, 01:13 AM
TRacy McGrady has this EXACT skillset...he did/does when he is healthy....everybody saw it. So...just throwing that out there to the guy who said only two people posses this skill set: MJ and Kobe... but TMAC has it too man.

DCB/LAL
08-05-2009, 01:23 AM
He's one of the toughest defensive assignments in the NBA. that's absolutely true. But your conjecture doesn't make what you say true.



Yup. That Knicks defense is extremely difficult for superstars - or anyone for that matter - to score on.

It's not like anyone else scored 50+ or even had almost a triple double against them the next game or anything.

Hmm....Did Durant play against them???? Did Lebron score 61???? Did Wade score 61??? Idk pretty sure many "top scorers" played the Knicks please tell me how many scored 61??? PLEASE!!! Did they the player you believe to be the best offensive player score that many?? Please tell me how many since you make it seem like their so horrible that anyone can score that many points!!

hgtiger32
08-05-2009, 01:26 AM
enough of all of these Laker threads already!

I come on here and 3 of the top 10 threads are about the Lakers
-This one
-Kobe scoring 81
-Bynum 2nd best center

aaaaaaaah...idk who is starting all of these threads and why? the lakers got their trophy so enough of this crap...they won 1 Finals and ppl are talking about them like they are a dynasty or a team like the Pistons and Spurs but they aren't like that yet......

Illuminati999
08-05-2009, 01:27 AM
please, stop the hate.

a good sign of how great you are is how much blind hatred you're drawing... kobe draws a LOT of hate.

a recent example of this theory is currently in practice. lebron's shadow and greatness is growing, as is the growing blind hatred towards him.

I guess the Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons are GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAT, huh Tony the Tiger?

theuuord
08-05-2009, 01:31 AM
Hmm....Did Durant play against them???? Did Lebron score 61???? Did Wade score 61??? Idk pretty sure many "top scorers" played the Knicks please tell me how many scored 61??? PLEASE!!! Did they the player you believe to be the best offensive player score that many?? Please tell me how many since you make it seem like their so horrible that anyone can score that many points!!

dude, are you really serious right now?
You seem more like a pro-Kobe caricature than an actual person.

yeah, he had a great game against the Knicks. One of the best games in terms of pure scoring ever. And that one game is not indicative of him being the best scorer in the NBA, although it (along with the rest of his season) does make him one of the better ones.

If we can talk about his great performance, can we also talk about how he went 5-19 against the Nets? Or 5-17 also against the Nets? Or 5-17 against the Wizards? or his 8-23 game against Phoenix? Or his 10-31 (0-6 from 3) against the Nuggets? Or his four 5-15 games?

Or are we only talking about the games that we pretend are sacred?

DCB/LAL
08-05-2009, 01:35 AM
dude, are you really serious right now?
You seem more like a pro-Kobe caricature than an actual person.

yeah, he had a great game against the Knicks. One of the best games in terms of pure scoring ever. And that one game is not indicative of him being the best scorer in the NBA, although it (along with the rest of his season) does make him one of the better ones.

If we can talk about his great performance, can we also talk about how he went 5-19 against the Nets? Or 5-17 also against the Nets? Or 5-17 against the Wizards? or 10-31 (0-6 from 3) against the Nuggets? Or his four 5-15 games?

Or are we only talking about the games that we pretend are sacred?

Ok name a better scorer than Kobe Bryant then please thats all I want name a person who has a better chance of going off for 60 on you in any given night?? Please Name another player with a better chance??? I wanna know who YOU think is a better scorer than Kobe Bryant!!

theuuord
08-05-2009, 01:39 AM
Ok name a better scorer than Kobe Bryant then please thats all I want name a person who has a better chance of going off for 60 on you in any given night?? Please Name another player who can???

No one has a good chance of going off for 60 on "any given night." The game usually doesn't allow for one player to dominate the ball that much.

Last season, Wade and LeBron had the most games of 50+ points (three each). Kobe, Roy, Kevin Martin, Tony Parker, and Jamal Crawford each had one.

DCB/LAL
08-05-2009, 01:56 AM
No one has a good chance of going off for 60 on "any given night." The game usually doesn't allow for one player to dominate the ball that much.

Last season, Wade and LeBron had the most games of 50+ points (three each). Kobe, Roy, Kevin Martin, Tony Parker, and Jamal Crawford each had one.

Hmmm.....You do realize Kobe has a better team now????? Look I dont care what you say Kobe is the best socrer in the league and if he played on a bad team or was a one man show i can almost Guarantee Kobe would lead the league in 50 point games and 40 point games but he doesn't have to anymore!!


But just because he doesn't do it anymore doesn't mean he can't!!!

DenButsu
08-05-2009, 01:58 AM
All player hate threads at PSD will be closed. And I think it's pretty transparent that that's what this is.