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Mile High Champ
08-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Well the top 10 at each position is now complete, time to end it with the final poll's. This year we will have a vote to see who are the 10 best players in the NBA are. The format is the exact same so please make your vote for who you feel are the best player in the league. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

NBA Player Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Kobe Bryant
2) Lebron James
3) Dwayne Wade
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

Mile High Champ
08-04-2009, 09:58 AM
Poll is Now up...

Went With Duncan here, still believe he is a top 3 player in todays game..

randomness
08-04-2009, 10:00 AM
Superman gets my vote.

marlinsfan24
08-04-2009, 10:01 AM
Tough one, I went Superman. I'd take Duncan as the 5th best.

basketfan4life
08-04-2009, 10:02 AM
gotta go with duncan...

daleja424
08-04-2009, 10:03 AM
For many years now Duncan has had one of the best supporting casts in b-ball... yet his team lost in the first round last year...and it wasnt really even close with them losing 4-1.

He is no longer a superstar elite player in this league. Dwight Howard's team, on the other hand, was in the finals last year. He is the leagues premier big man now...

clutchski
08-04-2009, 10:04 AM
I voted cp3

daleja424
08-04-2009, 10:04 AM
My deciding factor was simple...I would rather have Dwight Howard on my team then Duncan. We would have a better chance of winning IMO

dee279
08-04-2009, 10:06 AM
Cp3

Utahjazzfan18
08-04-2009, 10:09 AM
Howard and Duncan are both better then Cp3.

UofA
08-04-2009, 10:09 AM
duncan, and who voted Billups?

Ju-23
08-04-2009, 10:14 AM
Where Is The Paul Pierce Love???

clutchski
08-04-2009, 10:17 AM
Howard and Duncan are both better then Cp3.

I'll take CP's 23 points, 11 assists, 5.5 rebounds, 3 steals, and 87% free throw shooting any day over Duncan/Howards numbers..no disrespect intended to those players.

zo#33
08-04-2009, 10:18 AM
Duncan

DCSportsIsPain
08-04-2009, 10:25 AM
Where Is The Paul Pierce Love???

Pierce isn't even in the Top 10.
Anyone who thinks he is doesn't watch enough NBA basketball.

ManRam
08-04-2009, 10:46 AM
I honestly voted for CP3. The drop off from 1-3 to the rest is huge. Paul is an elite defender, and an elite offensive player. Duncan is still elite, but past his prime. Howard is perhaps the best defender in the league, but hardly elite offensively. I might start my team with Howard over Paul (a big man is more important IMO), but Paul is the better all around player...sadly. It said vote for the best player, and not potential...or who you'd rather have...etc. Paul is the better player.

clutchski
08-04-2009, 10:49 AM
I honestly voted for CP3. The drop off from 1-3 to the rest is huge. Paul is an elite defender, and an elite offensive player. Duncan is still elite, but past his prime. Howard is perhaps the best defender in the league, but hardly elite offensively. I might start my team with Howard over Paul (a big man is more important IMO), but Paul is the better all around player...sadly. It said vote for the best player, and not potential...or who you'd rather have...etc. Paul is the better player.

well said..I agree with you wholeheartedly

cowboyz180
08-04-2009, 10:51 AM
dirk

CELTICS4LYFE
08-04-2009, 11:12 AM
d-12!!!

J-Relo
08-04-2009, 11:18 AM
Howard, Duncan or CP3...

SaimoNETS
08-04-2009, 11:21 AM
Dwight Howard.

Zefflin
08-04-2009, 11:23 AM
Between D12, CP3 and Timmy, should be really close.

MajorFloridaFan
08-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Dwight howard reigning defensive MVP

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 11:32 AM
LOL DWIGHT HOWARD? Don't get me wrong DHow is good but Chris Paul's game is more complete. WAKE UP PPL!

Duncan #5

J_M_B
08-04-2009, 11:35 AM
plain and simple for me Dwight Howard

Catfish1314
08-04-2009, 11:42 AM
For many years now Duncan has had one of the best supporting casts in b-ball... yet his team lost in the first round last year...and it wasnt really even close with them losing 4-1.

He is no longer a superstar elite player in this league. Dwight Howard's team, on the other hand, was in the finals last year. He is the leagues premier big man now...

I'm not even a Tim Duncan fan, but that's an extremely uneducated post. Duncan wasn't himself in that playoff series because he was coming off an injury. Manu Ginobili was injured and not playing and Tony Parker was exhausted from having to carry the team most of the season, which he was hardly used to. The Spurs losing was a long time coming.

Duncan may be past his prime, but Tim Duncan past his prime would not have let himself be the reason why his team lost in the Finals like Dwight Howard did. Duncan is at his best on the biggest stages and Howard was shut down offensively in the Finals. While Howard is more productive, Duncan can carry a team's offensive load better, fundamentally he's the superior defender, and offensively he's far more refined.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
08-04-2009, 11:56 AM
you can't go wrong with CP3 or D12

ManRam
08-04-2009, 12:22 PM
There are 5 players in the NBA that I think are top 10 offensive AND defensive players. They are Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Paul, and Duncan (slight stretch offensively). Those 5 players have to go first. I'm a Magic fan. They are my favorite team in all of sports...but even I know that Dwight isn't a top 10 offensive player. He might not even be top 30. He is the best defender in the league, but if you watch him play offense, you'll be disappointed. Again, if this is just who is the best individual player vote...he isn't top 5. If I'm starting a team, he might be top 3, or even #1, but if you are looking for players with the most complete games, he isn't one of them. He has a lot of work to do to become an offensive star. He's half of what Shaq was offensively at this point in their careers...and the playoffs really exploited that.

theuuord
08-04-2009, 12:25 PM
Paul, Howard, Duncan....

tland22
08-04-2009, 12:28 PM
Howard and Duncan are both better then Cp3.

LOLOL coming from a Jazz fan....Jazz fans are notorious for hating on CP3...I bet you think D WIll is better than CP3, Howard, and Duncan, right?


Gotta go with Chris Paul, he is just ridiculous. He surely has a more complete game than Howard has.

Mile High Champ
08-04-2009, 01:01 PM
This one is pretty close so far..

jimbobjarree
08-04-2009, 01:34 PM
D12 baby

clehmun
08-04-2009, 01:39 PM
I honestly voted for CP3. The drop off from 1-3 to the rest is huge. Paul is an elite defender, and an elite offensive player. Duncan is still elite, but past his prime. Howard is perhaps the best defender in the league, but hardly elite offensively. I might start my team with Howard over Paul (a big man is more important IMO), but Paul is the better all around player...sadly. It said vote for the best player, and not potential...or who you'd rather have...etc. Paul is the better player.

why do you think chris paul is an elite defender? the steals? if anything in my eyes, he's an average or sometimes even a liabilty on the defensive end.
not his fault though, when you're 6'0 and 175lb, it's tough to be a good defender, good guards can just shoot over him or post him, etc. he's a good defender for his size, and he gets steals, but that's not what an elite defender to me. steals does NOT mean good defense.

anyway to answer this poll.
best player TODAY to me means, not considering previous achievements, no future potential factors.
if i want to win a championship next year and just next year, who would i pick to build my team around?

i don't really care who gets the most stats, or fill up the boxscore the best. i'm a huge fantasy ball fan, but i can separate the two leagues.
it's about who can lead their teams to winning.

dwight howard is my vote.

clutchski
08-04-2009, 01:44 PM
I think CP3's attitude and leadership is far better than Dwight's, and I also think D12 has a far better cast of players around him.

zambo4president
08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
I went with Dirk. Howard should not be considered here. He is a beast and he is top 10, just not number 4 until is offensive game comes along.

Brooklyn Mets
08-04-2009, 01:45 PM
cp3

TheKing23
08-04-2009, 01:49 PM
Chris Paul for me.
Best floor general in the league with incomparable court vision.

dolfan720
08-04-2009, 01:53 PM
went with durant here great player

clehmun
08-04-2009, 01:56 PM
I went with Dirk. Howard should not be considered here. He is a beast and he is top 10, just not number 4 until is offensive game comes along.

i guess this is also a point i want to make. howard's offensive is not great, but it's atleast on the level of dirk's defense if not better.

it's easy to look at howard's offensive game and say it's weak and not developed. but guys like dirk, cp3, etc don't have the defensive presences to go with their offensive games as well, atleast nowhere near howard's level.

that's why kobe, lebron, and wade was picked top 3, and there's a huge gap between top 3 and the next group of players.

tland22
08-04-2009, 01:57 PM
^^^^ funny that u r serious. Durant is overrated now....sorry, he is. Everyone on his nuts for doing NOTHING. Scorers come and go in the NBA...you will soon learn that my firend. He needs to be able to do somehting else well, which he doesnt

JordansBulls
08-04-2009, 01:58 PM
Why is Kevin Durant, Steve Nash, Joe Johnson and Billups on this list but not Rose?

tland22
08-04-2009, 01:59 PM
If Wade is # 3 the CP3 is def # 4... same or better numbers than Wade, check it out yourself. Even has better shooting percentages in all 3 categories of shooting than Wade. Id take Paul's numbers over Howard anyday.

Paul is way more complete game, and so he is a better player than Howard.

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 01:59 PM
why do you think chris paul is an elite defender? the steals? if anything in my eyes, he's an average or sometimes even a liabilty on the defensive end.
not his fault though, when you're 6'0 and 175lb, it's tough to be a good defender, good guards can just shoot over him or post him, etc. he's a good defender for his size, and he gets steals, but that's not what an elite defender to me. steals does NOT mean good defense.

anyway to answer this poll.
best player TODAY to me means, not considering previous achievements, no future potential factors.
if i want to win a championship next year and just next year, who would i pick to build my team around?

i don't really care who gets the most stats, or fill up the boxscore the best. i'm a huge fantasy ball fan, but i can separate the two leagues.
it's about who can lead their teams to winning.

dwight howard is my vote.
And you think Dwight is really that great of a leader? Didn't he publicly demand that his teammates feed him the ball more during the playoffs? I don't know about you, but in order to be a good leader don't you need the respect of the players on your team?

Anyhow Chris Paul's ability to defend in the post is irrelevant concering his D. Hes a PG for for Pete's sake, isn't that obvious? In terms of his leadership; CP is a 20/10 guy. His assists alone prove his ability to lead.

CP3 > Howard

patya17
08-04-2009, 02:03 PM
went with cp3, but where's Amare?

Basketballguy87
08-04-2009, 02:05 PM
OMG! has everyone gone mad CP3 and Howard are good and in my top 10 but Duncan in his prime was #1 and now I know he is at least #4.

Nuff-said!

mikantsass
08-04-2009, 02:06 PM
How is Howard getting all these votes? Yes he is a freak of nature but he has NO offensive talent at all other than dunking. It has to be Chris Paul here

clehmun
08-04-2009, 02:08 PM
And you think Dwight is really that great of a leader? Didn't he publicly demand that his teammates feed him the ball more during the playoffs? I don't know about you, but in order to be a good leader don't you need the respect of the players on your team?

Anyhow Chris Paul's ability to defend in the post is irrelevant concering his D. Hes a PG for for Pete's sake, isn't that obvious? In terms of his leadership; CP is a 20/10 guy. His assists alone prove his ability to lead.

CP3 > Howard

and what happened after dwight publicly demanded the ball? he stepped up his game, and his team went to the finals. dwight has all the respect from his team, i'm not sure where you got the fact that his teammates don't respect him.

i never said cp3 needed to defend the post, i meant good strong guards like billups, deron, kidd, bd, etc can all take him to the post and post him up at times.
gary payton was one of the best post up PGs in the game. you don't have to be a big to post up. and when facing guards who have post up games, CP3's defense will get exposed even more. that's what i meant, so maybe we just misunderstood each other.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-04-2009, 02:10 PM
I like Timmy D.

B.JenningsMVP
08-04-2009, 02:10 PM
Cp3

clehmun
08-04-2009, 02:11 PM
How is Howard getting all these votes? Yes he is a freak of nature but he has NO offensive talent at all other than dunking. It has to be Chris Paul here

How is CP3 getting all these votes? Yes he has great vision but he has NO defensive talent at all other than stealing. It has to be Dwight Howard here :smoking:

GSW fan
08-04-2009, 02:30 PM
Dwight

Baller1
08-04-2009, 02:35 PM
Duncan.

Basketballguy87
08-04-2009, 02:37 PM
LOL wow how many championships does Howard and CP3 have?......Well i guess I have to tell you because very few of you all get it, 0 they have 0! Duncan has 4, 4 times the amount of both of them combined and he won his first champioinship in his 2nd year in the NBA, CP3 and Howard have not.

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 02:38 PM
How is CP3 getting all these votes? Yes he has great vision but he has NO defensive talent at all other than stealing. It has to be Dwight Howard here :smoking:So Dwight wins solely on his defensive ability?

clehmun
08-04-2009, 02:45 PM
So Dwight wins solely on his defensive ability?

no i was just having fun and mocking his post. dwight's offensive game is limited, but he's still a 20 point scorer. we're not talking ben wallace here, people need to realize while dwight's offensive game is not as good as the kobes, lebrons, wades, yaos, etc... he's still a 20 point scorer with high percentages.

he has weaknesses in his games, but that is why he's not top 3 in my eyes.

i'm not going to argue that i'm right, because no one will be right in everyone's eyes. i'm just explaining why i would take dwight over cp3. and that's because if i were to start a team, and go for the win for next year and only next year, i would pick dwight over cp3. and i would pick timmy d over dwight if duncan was 2-3 years younger.

my picks are dwight, duncan, cp3 in that order.

Utahjazzfan18
08-04-2009, 02:48 PM
LOLOL coming from a Jazz fan....Jazz fans are notorious for hating on CP3...I bet you think D WIll is better than CP3, Howard, and Duncan, right?


Gotta go with Chris Paul, he is just ridiculous. He surely has a more complete game than Howard has.

No, I guess I just disagree on what we're voting by. My vote is based off of which one player will affect my team the most when it comes to overall wins and a chance at a title. I think the addition of Howard or Duncan would make any team better then Cp3 or Williams for that matter.

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 02:49 PM
LOL wow how many championships does Howard and CP3 have?......Well i guess I have to tell you because very few of you all get it, 0 they have 0! Duncan has 4, 4 times the amount of both of them combined and he won his first champioinship in his 2nd year in the NBA, CP3 and Howard have not.Robert Horry has won 7 does that mean he belongs in the top 3? Duncan is one of my favorite players but he's after CP3 imo.

clehmun
08-04-2009, 02:54 PM
^i'm so tired of the robert horry argument.

Mikeleafs
08-04-2009, 02:55 PM
Dwight

clutchski
08-04-2009, 02:57 PM
LOL wow how many championships does Howard and CP3 have?......Well i guess I have to tell you because very few of you all get it, 0 they have 0! Duncan has 4, 4 times the amount of both of them combined and he won his first champioinship in his 2nd year in the NBA, CP3 and Howard have not.

Duncan didn't just walk out and win it by himself...Lebron also has 0 championships and he's number 2 on this list....

bbcmillionaire
08-04-2009, 03:00 PM
would vote dhoward, but timmy could score over any big man in the post, and a very very good defender. while howard just dunks and blocks, maybe 6th. behind timmy and carmelo. YEAH I SAID IT MELO FOR 5th

ManRam
08-04-2009, 03:02 PM
why do you think chris paul is an elite defender? the steals? if anything in my eyes, he's an average or sometimes even a liabilty on the defensive end.
not his fault though, when you're 6'0 and 175lb, it's tough to be a good defender, good guards can just shoot over him or post him, etc. he's a good defender for his size, and he gets steals, but that's not what an elite defender to me. steals does NOT mean good defense.

anyway to answer this poll.
best player TODAY to me means, not considering previous achievements, no future potential factors.
if i want to win a championship next year and just next year, who would i pick to build my team around?

i don't really care who gets the most stats, or fill up the boxscore the best. i'm a huge fantasy ball fan, but i can separate the two leagues.
it's about who can lead their teams to winning.

dwight howard is my vote.

He is an upper echelon defender. He might not be shut down, but I think his defense is better than Howard's offense. Sure, he's undersized...but he holds his opponents to a respectable PER. Steals matter. He plays with unmatched heart, desire and hustle on defense. His transition defense is better than anyone else's in the league IMO. He is a top 10 rebounding PG too for such a "undersized" player.

And if you are going to base it on winning games, why not vote Duncan? He's won many titles. We aren't taking in to factor age or potential, so why doesn't he get the vote. Howard has too many flaws in his offensive game. Ask a Boston or LA fan how Howard did vs. their teams in the playoffs. The answer is bad. He didn't carry the Magic anywhere in the postseason. It was more Hedo and Shard than anything else. He isn't a go-to scorer, and until he is, and until he can consistently take over a game, he isn't a top 5 player IMO. I wish he is...but I'm being realistic, and he frustrates me so much on offense. The Magic went on so many scoring droughts, and his inability to get the ball, and score at will really didn't help.

CP and TD have better all around games IMO.

Basketballguy87
08-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Robert Horry has won 7 does that mean he belongs in the top 3? Duncan is one of my favorite players but he's after CP3 imo.

Robert Horry is a role player and this topic is only about current players duh, Duncan has the stats, 4 championships, two MVP awards 2002/2003 and three finals MVP's, Cp3 does not!

still1ballin
08-04-2009, 03:14 PM
cp3

IversonIsKrazy
08-04-2009, 03:17 PM
I luv Duncan, but he cant put his team on his back no more. If this was 2 or 3 years ago, i'd take him in the top 2. But now, i would take CP3 overDuncan. I went with Chris Paul here, Howard is dominate, but doesnt have the right skills. I mean, he doesnt have any real post skills, when he gets skilled shots in, if u notice, all the broadcasters are like amazed and are like hes still learning how to do the post moves. I went with Chris Paul now.

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 04:00 PM
^i'm so tired of the robert horry argument.Im so tired of using championship wins to determine a players individual skill argument.


Robert Horry is a role player and this topic is only about current players duh, Duncan has the stats, 4 championships, two MVP awards 2002/2003 and three finals MVP's, Cp3 does not!Your missing the point.

JordansBulls
08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
Robert Horry has won 7 does that mean he belongs in the top 3? Duncan is one of my favorite players but he's after CP3 imo.

Was he an allstar? Has he even finished in the top 10 in MVP voting?

Winning rings means nothing in comparison with how others win rings unless you win them as the best on your team and preferably the best in the league.

theuuord
08-04-2009, 04:13 PM
they have 0! Duncan has 4, 4 times the amount of both of them combined

math fail.

dre1990
08-04-2009, 04:29 PM
This goes to the best Point in the NBA. CP3

yanksknicksgmen
08-04-2009, 04:30 PM
dwight howard is my vote

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 04:31 PM
Was he an allstar? Has he even finished in the top 10 in MVP voting?

Winning rings means nothing in comparison with how others win rings unless you win them as the best on your team and preferably the best in the league.lol I don't get that. What I'm trying to say is that (in the Spurs case) it took the WHOLE team to win those championships. Not just Duncan himself. I know the Horry comparison is somewhat outstretched but you simply can't judge a players skill by how many rings they do or don't have. Anyhow to further help my case CP3 finished 5th in MVP balloting this year compared to Duncan who was at 11.

Unruly Fan
08-04-2009, 04:32 PM
math fail.
:laugh2:

Bruno
08-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Pauls numbers are pretty off the charts.

tland22
08-04-2009, 05:13 PM
^^^^^ That they are! And he leads his teams to wins. Without Paul, New Orleans STINKS

nyyankees09
08-04-2009, 05:26 PM
D12

Basketballguy87
08-04-2009, 05:48 PM
lol I don't get that. What I'm trying to say is that (in the Spurs case) it took the WHOLE team to win those championships. Not just Duncan himself. I know the Horry comparison is somewhat outstretched but you simply can't judge a players skill by how many rings they do or don't have. Anyhow to further help my case CP3 finished 5th in MVP balloting this year compared to Duncan who was at 11.

Every great team has to come together to win a championship, if you win a championship on a great team, and you win finals MVP I think that speaks greater volumes on how good you have to be to win that award. You're also saying that you have to be on a terrible team to be as considered a MVP candidate like CP3, which makes no sense.

Hawkeye15
08-04-2009, 07:00 PM
Paul

theBraveRocket
08-04-2009, 07:09 PM
Cp3

Vinny642
08-04-2009, 07:11 PM
Cp3 :D

Thatruth32
08-04-2009, 07:16 PM
superman that hoe

Vinny642
08-04-2009, 07:20 PM
People cant read.
Duncan is better then CP3 because he has 4 Rings?
LOL No no no, Its says 4th best today, so the past don't matter.

Toenail Clipper
08-04-2009, 07:23 PM
PUT GILBERT ARENAS
-_-
He is the fourth best player.
Not Chris Paul.

ronaldsmith_86
08-04-2009, 07:32 PM
Timmy!!!

Bruno
08-04-2009, 07:53 PM
Chris Paul.

sanfranfan1210
08-04-2009, 08:02 PM
Dwight Howard

Basketballguy87
08-04-2009, 08:04 PM
Tim Duncan!

AK23
08-04-2009, 08:22 PM
Superman gets my vote.

mine too :)

Mile High Champ
08-04-2009, 08:24 PM
close vote, keep it up..

dsickich123
08-04-2009, 09:06 PM
I voted Durant...but its a homer pick...
I feel he is top ten though...and hope he makes the list

Real #4: CP3

Kakaroach
08-04-2009, 09:21 PM
You can't go wrong with Duncan/Dirk/CP3/Superman. I went with Dirk.

Storch
08-04-2009, 10:09 PM
I voted Chris Paul. That man is so sick with the ball.

TRF929
08-04-2009, 10:29 PM
Duncan and whoever says he lost in the playoffs last year, yes he did but he was playing on injured legs. CP3 is good, but its easier to be a good PG than a good Big let alone HOF. And I like Howard but he wasnt even the one that got the Magic to the Finals it was everyone else, it was their outside game and the size mismatches

Unruly Fan
08-05-2009, 12:34 AM
Duncan and whoever says he lost in the playoffs last year, yes he did but he was playing on injured legs. CP3 is good, but its easier to be a good PG than a good Big let alone HOF. And I like Howard but he wasnt even the one that got the Magic to the Finals it was everyone else, it was their outside game and the size mismatchesSpeaking of HOF... Where's Shaq on this list then?

TRF929
08-05-2009, 12:56 AM
Speaking of HOF... Where's Shaq on this list then?

thats true, where is he, didnt even think about him, but i still wouldnt put him in the top 6 or 7
but he's not even the best center, anymore, so i can see why he's not on here
Duncan is the best PF

Mile High Champ
08-05-2009, 12:56 AM
Dissapointed that Duncan aint winning this but this remains a very close race..

Mile High Champ
08-05-2009, 12:57 AM
Speaking of HOF... Where's Shaq on this list then?

Shaq did not even finish top 3 at his position. He would be lucky to be top 20..

Lakersfan2483
08-05-2009, 01:01 AM
Chris Paul

Illuminati999
08-05-2009, 01:04 AM
ROFL!!! Come on, the fact that Tim Duncan is 3rd so far on this poll is ridiculous. Tim Duncan is the best PF to ever play the game but the post said "Today." If Michael Jordan game out of retirement again, would you vote him in the top 5 NBA players "today?" What about Shaq, may as well make an argument that he is 4th best considering he was easily top 5 when he was young, right?! If you do believe that you're probably that moron that voted Chauncey Billups as the 4th best player. Chris Paul SHOULD wins this by a landslide, and I hate the a-s-s-h-o-l-e.

I don't want to hear people responding "Well golly, excuse me for having an opinion, we're entitled to one." Sure you are, but if you are going to be a dumb fugger about it, you shouldn't have one... yes that is MY opinion.

Illuminati999
08-05-2009, 01:09 AM
dirk

Dirk is 5th in my opinion. But I still love the nazi 7 footer.

KobeIs
08-05-2009, 02:24 AM
i wanna say duncan but he's just too old... well compared to d12 and cp3 he is =D

DCSportsIsPain
08-05-2009, 07:14 AM
Meh. CP3 has done it for four seasons. Even Gilbert Arenas did it for six before his knee issues. Dirk, ten seasons. Tim, 12 seasons of consistency. Four seasons doesn't mean much when even players like Jerry "Slack-***" Stackhouse put up numbers for that many seasons.

Maybe in a few years CP3 will have earned the right to be called better than Duncan, but posting good numbers on bad teams is easy for good players. Duncan has posted the same numbers with David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and several other scorers. It's harder to post consistent numbers when the entire team is talented. Anyone who doesn't believe that only needs to look at how Kobe's scoring dropped off when the Lakers got him some help.

On a bad team where he was the only option, like CP3 is, Duncan would have posted better numbers, but he has been on good teams his entire career. And somehow people penalize him for that by saying that his stats are less impressive than players who are the ONLY option on their teams? LOL

daleja424
08-05-2009, 08:55 AM
I'm surprised. Only one of these guys lead a team to the Finals last year. If this is about best players in the NBA now you have to look the recent history. The recent histroy says that all three guys (Howard, Paul, and Duncan) had a very good supporting cast and only one made it to the finals. If you don't like that argument then you could cimply look at stats. Even then Howard wins IMO. I know Paul was a 22 and 11 guy last season but Howard averaged 21 and 14 with 3 blocks...thats crazy. And in the playoffs Paul CHOKED (16.6 ppg, 41% shooting aint gunna get it done....even his assist numbers were down a little)

ManRam
08-05-2009, 10:25 AM
I'm surprised. Only one of these guys lead a team to the Finals last year. If this is about best players in the NBA now you have to look the recent history. The recent histroy says that all three guys (Howard, Paul, and Duncan) had a very good supporting cast and only one made it to the finals. If you don't like that argument then you could cimply look at stats. Even then Howard wins IMO. I know Paul was a 22 and 11 guy last season but Howard averaged 21 and 14 with 3 blocks...thats crazy. And in the playoffs Paul CHOKED (16.6 ppg, 41% shooting aint gunna get it done....even his assist numbers were down a little)

I'd argue that, besides in the Cleveland series where Z was helpless vs. Dwight...Hedo and Shard had more to do with the Magic making the Finals than Dwight. Dwight didn't LEAD them to the Finals. He was just a part of it. He averaged 16 points vs. Boston, and 15 points vs. LA on sub 50% shooting. That's terrible for him. He was an offensive non-factor. Hedo and Shard were far better offensively in those two series. Sure, Howard was a beast defensively and on the boards, but if we are talking best players in the NBA, I want guys who are stars on both sides of the ball...and those guys are Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Duncan and Paul.

You say Paul choked, I say Howard disappointed more than he impressed in the playoffs.

Stats don't mean everything. The fact that you can force the ball to Howard, and expect him to score, like you could with Shaq, and like you can with Duncan, Pau, Dirk, Jefferson and Amare means that Howard isn't a top 5 player yet IMO. I love the guy to death, I just hate watching him struggle on offense, when he has no reason to.

tland22
08-05-2009, 11:09 AM
k

tland22
08-05-2009, 11:16 AM
^^^^^MANRAM I agree with all of that
.


I'm surprised. Only one of these guys lead a team to the Finals last year. If this is about best players in the NBA now you have to look the recent history. The recent histroy says that all three guys (Howard, Paul, and Duncan) had a very good supporting cast and only one made it to the finals. If you don't like that argument then you could cimply look at stats. Even then Howard wins IMO. I know Paul was a 22 and 11 guy last season but Howard averaged 21 and 14 with 3 blocks...thats crazy. And in the playoffs Paul CHOKED (16.6 ppg, 41% shooting aint gunna get it done....even his assist numbers were down a little)



and Paul is a 23 and 11 guy fyi...and you left off the fact that he avg 3 steals per game, yet you when citing Howards stats you added his 3 blocks? HELLO!?!? Biases anyone? Paul also had 5.5 Rebs per game and for the season SHOT 50.3%... 36.4% 3point and 87% FT you wont win "STAT" argument against chris Paul unless you are LeBron.

And that playoff argument....pftttttttt....The Magic were CLEARLY better than the injury plagued Hornets. Howard clearly had a better cast of people. Howard wasnt exactly a leader during the playoffs, he doesnt NEED to play well for the Magic to win. A prime example was when they played PHILLY in the playoffs in a critical game...they DESTROYED Philly without Howard...they looked much better. Imagine the Hornets without Chris Paul? Okay, exactly. Though the Hornets still managed to win 49 games in the WC and in the Southwest division, unquestionably the BEST division in all of Basketball in the universe.

J-Relo
08-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Paul is winning it

daleja424
08-05-2009, 11:29 AM
^^^^^MANRAM I agree with all of that
.





and Paul is a 23 and 11 guy fyi...and you left off the fact that he avg 3 steals per game, yet you when citing Howards stats you added his 3 blocks? HELLO!?!? Biases anyone? Paul also had 5.5 Rebs per game and for the season SHOT 50.3%... 36.4% 3point and 87% FT you wont win "STAT" argument against chris Paul unless you are LeBron.

And that playoff argument....pftttttttt....The Magic were CLEARLY better than the injury plagued Hornets. Howard clearly had a better cast of people. Howard wasnt exactly a leader during the playoffs, he doesnt NEED to play well for the Magic to win. A prime example was when they played PHILLY in the playoffs in a critical game...they DESTROYED Philly without Howard...they looked much better. Imagine the Hornets without Chris Paul? Okay, exactly. Though the Hornets still managed to win 49 games in the WC and in the Southwest division, unquestionably the BEST division in all of Basketball in the universe.

Not including his steals had nothing to do with bias. It is the simple fact that blocking three shots is a GAME CHANGING stat. Getting 3 steals is not. How many times do you think people setteled for bad shots or had to change their shot as a result of Howard being in the middle. People don't take worse shots and aren't intimidated by Paul getting the passing lane and grabbing a couple steals.

All his shooting stats are wonderful...especially for a guard. You act like I am sayign he sucks. I am only saying that I feel Howard is 4 and Paul is 5. He is not doubt a top 5 player and a susperstar!

And for the record... the Magic would suck without Howard too. So much of what they do as a team is dependent on having a dominant big man inside. Perimeter oriented teams RARELY are successful. It requires someone inside taking pressure off the shooters.

tland22
08-05-2009, 11:51 AM
oh alright I see what you are saying. But I still dont think the Magic would "SUCK" without Howard..they look just as good, sometimes better without him. I only saw that PHILLY playoff game without him, and that was the Magics most dominating game vs the 76ers.,...when Howard was out. Their Off was so so so much better without D12 camping out. I do agree with your final sentence though

ManRam
08-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Not including his steals had nothing to do with bias. It is the simple fact that blocking three shots is a GAME CHANGING stat. Getting 3 steals is not. How many times do you think people setteled for bad shots or had to change their shot as a result of Howard being in the middle. People don't take worse shots and aren't intimidated by Paul getting the passing lane and grabbing a couple steals.

All his shooting stats are wonderful...especially for a guard. You act like I am sayign he sucks. I am only saying that I feel Howard is 4 and Paul is 5. He is not doubt a top 5 player and a susperstar!

And for the record... the Magic would suck without Howard too. So much of what they do as a team is dependent on having a dominant big man inside. Perimeter oriented teams RARELY are successful. It requires someone inside taking pressure off the shooters.

I disagree about shot blocking being game changing and steals not. You block a shot, and half the time the shot isn't gonna go in anyways. CP is the best transition defender in the game, a lot of his steals come in transition. He stops fast breaks, creates fast breaks...which is just as important.

Until Howard becomes a go-to scorer, he isn't better than Paul. The fact of the matter is you can stop Howard on offense. He isn't Shaq. He can't dunk in a crowd. He can't back big men down. He has a terribly inconsistent hook shot. He's good when is face forward, but even so...most of his baskets come on broken plays, and rebounds. If you can keep him from getting position under the hoop (like Boston and LA did), he's not a 20 point scorer, and hardly a 50% shooter. He is so raw offensively it isn't funny. I get some crap from Magic fans for acting like this...but it frustrates me to watch him not be able to score. For someone who demands the ball, you think he could score from anywhere on the court. The only way he's scoring, is if he's under the hoop.

theuuord
08-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Not including his steals had nothing to do with bias. It is the simple fact that blocking three shots is a GAME CHANGING stat. Getting 3 steals is not.

what? Have you been drinking?

Three steals is three automatic possessions that go in favor of your team and against the opposition.

Three blocks is three altered shots that about half the time go back to the opposition for another opportunity to score.

Three blocks is nothing to sneeze at, but three steals is definitely a GAME CHANGING stat.

daleja424
08-05-2009, 02:10 PM
what? Have you been drinking?

Three steals is three automatic possessions that go in favor of your team and against the opposition.

Three blocks is three altered shots that about half the time go back to the opposition for another opportunity to score.

Three blocks is nothing to sneeze at, but three steals is definitely a GAME CHANGING stat.

did you read the rest of my post...or just the first two sentences? I went to explain myself. A guy that gets 3 blocks is someone who REGULARLY forces opponents into tough shots. The fact that he blocks three is impressive...but when you look at it...he probably alters nearly ten a game. That sets the tone defensively. Jumping in the passing lane and gambling for steals like Paul, Wade, AI, etc does not make you a great defeder. There is a reason that Howard was the DPY and not Paul or Wade...

theuuord
08-05-2009, 02:12 PM
did you read the rest of my post...or just the first two sentences? I went to explain myself. A guy that gets 3 blocks is someone who REGULARLY forces opponents into tough shots. The fact that he blocks three is impressive...but when you look at it...he probably alters nearly ten a game. That sets the tone defensively. Jumping in the passing lane and gambling for steals like Paul, Wade, AI, etc does not make you a great defeder. There is a reason that Howard was the DPY and not Paul or Wade...

I did read the rest of it. Did you ever think that Paul's ability to amass steals is a massive disruption to perimeter offenses?

I'm not going to compare the values of Paul's defensive ability and Howard's - obviously Howard's is better. But to say that three steals a game isn't a game-changing number is ludicrous.

Illuminati999
08-05-2009, 11:47 PM
Not including his steals had nothing to do with bias. It is the simple fact that blocking three shots is a GAME CHANGING stat. Getting 3 steals is not. How many times do you think people setteled for bad shots or had to change their shot as a result of Howard being in the middle. People don't take worse shots and aren't intimidated by Paul getting the passing lane and grabbing a couple steals.

All his shooting stats are wonderful...especially for a guard. You act like I am sayign he sucks. I am only saying that I feel Howard is 4 and Paul is 5. He is not doubt a top 5 player and a susperstar!

And for the record... the Magic would suck without Howard too. So much of what they do as a team is dependent on having a dominant big man inside. Perimeter oriented teams RARELY are successful. It requires someone inside taking pressure off the shooters.

LOL!! How can you say stealing a ball isn't as "game changing" as making a block? If you steal a ball, 9 times out of 10 it doesn't get stolen right out from under you. If your shot gets blocked, it's a toss up as to who gets it, 50/50. Sure a block prevents a potential score, but you have to take into a count that people aren't 100% FG shooters when being covered as opposed to a steal, it has a higher chance of becoming an easy 2 points. Not saying one is better than the other, just saying I don't get your logic.

the 1 and only!
08-05-2009, 11:49 PM
1.kobe
2.cp3
3.wade
4.lebron
5.howard