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View Full Version : Cavs Can't Sign Two Major Free-Agents In 2010



ARMIN12NBA
08-03-2009, 08:48 PM
The Cavaliers once thought that they would be able to sign another major free agent in addition to LeBron James next summer, but that is no longer the case.

The NBA's salary cap will be $58 million for the 2009-10 season, and the league office has warned teams that the cap could drop to as much as $8 million next year.

Cleveland signed Anderson Varejao, Jamario Moon and Anthony Parker this summer, effectively using up their cap space.

http://news-herald.com/articles/2009/08/02/sports/nh1252908.txt

Thoughts?

Chronz
08-03-2009, 08:57 PM
I dont understand the point of giving Bargs and AV those ridiculous extensions when the market was dried up, especially for the Raps Bargs was going to be restricted, no team in their right mind wouldve offered him that contract so why go overboard? Cavs couldnt afford to lose AV and hes the only young piece that compliments Brons game, but they overpaid big.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-03-2009, 09:01 PM
^

Bargnani has drastically improved. It's kind of the same thing with Bynum why he is suppose to get 14.5 million a year.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-03-2009, 09:02 PM
And they will find a way to get someone good. They did it with Shaq and Mo Williams for garbage so they might get someone. Michael Redd looks good right now.

zambo4president
08-03-2009, 09:04 PM
Good its funny.

Chronz
08-03-2009, 09:05 PM
^

Bargnani has drastically improved. It's kind of the same thing with Bynum why he is suppose to get 14.5 million a year.
Because hes younger with more potential and his contract was drying up a year earlier, and there were teams that were going to throw the bank at him. Also his statistical rate of production was in line with that of a 12M a year player, the fact that he was also an important defender made it a no brainer. Bargs may be much improved but the salary structure of the NBA is worse. There is no market for him, hes got alot to prove.

ManRam
08-03-2009, 09:10 PM
Without LeBron, they'll have a salary around 31-32 million dollars, with 9 players under contract. They have his Bird Rights, so can sign him for any price, regardless of the cap situation. I'm pretty sure they can afford a max player, and re-sign LeBron afterwards.

Regardless, most teams who have waited years for next off-season are going to be disappointed. Lower salary cap...probability of players re-signing...etc. It's gonna be a bust considering how much hype its getting.

Sox Appeal
08-03-2009, 09:11 PM
I dont understand the point of giving Bargs and AV those ridiculous extensions when the market was dried up, especially for the Raps Bargs was going to be restricted, no team in their right mind wouldve offered him that contract so why go overboard? Cavs couldnt afford to lose AV and hes the only young piece that compliments Brons game, but they overpaid big.

What exactly does AV do that compliments Brons game so well? The only things Varejao brings to the table are toughness, and an occasional hustle play. Outside of that, he isn't really that good of a basketball player. When the Cavs are on offense he isn't even worth defending, and on the other side of the ball he really has problems against skilled low-post players. The Cavs would have been better off snagging Blair in the draft, and letting Andy walk, instead of giving him that insane contract extension.

daleja424
08-03-2009, 09:13 PM
Without LeBron, they'll have a salary around 31-32 million dollars, with 9 players under contract. They have his Bird Rights, so can sign him for any price, regardless of the cap situation. I'm pretty sure they can afford a max player, and re-sign LeBron afterwards.

Regardless, most teams who have waited years for next off-season are going to be disappointed. Lower salary cap...probability of players re-signing...etc. It's gonna be a bust considering how much hype its getting.

wow...NO!

you have to either resign YOUR player first...or give up his bird rights. If they sign Lebron first they wont have money for another FA. If they sign the other FA first they lose Lebron's bird rights and cannot resign him over the cap. You can't get around salary cap rules. The NBA is not that ********!

arkanian215
08-03-2009, 09:14 PM
locking up anderson greedy varejao is important to lock up lebron. same goes for bargs. raps management wants to prove to bosh that they care about winning and that they want to keep him there by helping keep talent there as well. so keeping bargs and bringing in turk was to make bosh happy.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-03-2009, 09:15 PM
Because hes younger with more potential and his contract was drying up a year earlier, and there were teams that were going to throw the bank at him. Also his statistical rate of production was in line with that of a 12M a year player, the fact that he was also an important defender made it a no brainer. Bargs may be much improved but the salary structure of the NBA is worse. There is no market for him, hes got alot to prove.

I really don't want to get into another Bynum vs Bargnani arguement but has Bynum really proven himelf playing 80 games in the last 2 seasons averaging 14 and 10.

Bynum also has more of a bust tag on him than Bargnani. We can't really know if Bynum will be the same after 2 straight knee injures in consecutive years. The only thing that might hold Bargnani right now is his playing time and he will get a lot of playing time for Triano.

Bargnani was also on pace to average close to 20 points and 8 rebounds with the minutes he is suppose to get from Triano. If he did match that pace, Bargnani would have wanted more. I agree that Bargnani was overpaid but I would rather have Bargnani and for what he is worth than Bynum and his contract.

Bargnani could have gotten a lot of money thrown at him if he did improve like teams from OKC and Memphis so it was smart to sign him with his pace of improvement.

Raps18-19 Champ
08-03-2009, 09:16 PM
Without LeBron, they'll have a salary around 31-32 million dollars, with 9 players under contract. They have his Bird Rights, so can sign him for any price, regardless of the cap situation. I'm pretty sure they can afford a max player, and re-sign LeBron afterwards.

Regardless, most teams who have waited years for next off-season are going to be disappointed. Lower salary cap...probability of players re-signing...etc. It's gonna be a bust considering how much hype its getting.


What Deleja said.

Lakers4ItAll
08-03-2009, 09:17 PM
Cavs better win this year.....

daleja424
08-03-2009, 09:18 PM
What Deleja said.

omg...we agreed on something... :hi5:

Raps18-19 Champ
08-03-2009, 09:20 PM
omg...we agreed on something... :hi5:

Ha trust me.

I have gotten into some debates with a poster called ko8e and we always either agree a lot or disagree a lot on every other thread.

magichatnumber9
08-03-2009, 09:30 PM
Thats great news

Teeboy1487
08-03-2009, 09:38 PM
Do they still have their mid-level?

daleja424
08-03-2009, 09:48 PM
Do they still have their mid-level?

no bc they will be below the cap at the beg of free agancy

philab
08-04-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm not sure any team can sign two max FAs next year with how low the cap might fall.

Anyone know this for sure?

cowboyz180
08-04-2009, 10:55 AM
they overpayed for varejao

CELTICS4LYFE
08-04-2009, 11:11 AM
whoop de doo lol

MajorFloridaFan
08-04-2009, 11:31 AM
Without LeBron, they'll have a salary around 31-32 million dollars, with 9 players under contract. They have his Bird Rights, so can sign him for any price, regardless of the cap situation. I'm pretty sure they can afford a max player, and re-sign LeBron afterwards.

Regardless, most teams who have waited years for next off-season are going to be disappointed. Lower salary cap...probability of players re-signing...etc. It's gonna be a bust considering how much hype its getting.

I agree the lowering Cap situation hurts the league and its Free agency period there will be alot of players looking for a home nxt season....besides the major FA there might be bargains to have nxt year

MajorFloridaFan
08-04-2009, 11:32 AM
Do they still have their mid-level?

They get 1 a year

lakers4sho
08-04-2009, 11:43 AM
They get 1 a year

Not when they're below the cap.

But their space won't be enough to sign another major FA.

J-Relo
08-04-2009, 11:47 AM
who will be able to sign 2 of them? without making additional moves? nobody...

philab
08-04-2009, 12:09 PM
Using the knowledge given and my basic (albeit possibly incorrect) knowledge of the cap situation:

With a cap at $58MM (article) and a salary of $31-32MM (ManRam), that leaves $25-26MM.

LeBron will get the maximum (assuming he signs, of course), which comes out to $17.3MM. That leaves around $8MM to play with and stay under the cap.

Whether $8MM qualifies as a "Major FA" is debatable. Certainly the Cavs (or any team?) cannot sign two MAX FAs.


So $8MM to the best FA the Cavs can court. That leaves them with 11 players. The $5.8MM MLE would put them at the minimum. The minimum salary exception allows them to fill out the rest of the roster irregardless of the cap.


All things considered, the ability to re-sign the best (or second-best for some of you) player in the game AND sign a borderline-major FA AND a quality FA looks like a good situation. It's not the LeBron and Bosh/Johnson that Cavaliers fans have been touting, but it doesn't look like any team will be able to do that.

Jaydes
08-04-2009, 12:13 PM
Who the !@#$ cares...

The quote from the idiot Met's fan on your sig needs to go...

Are you serious? .... Who would promote that....

If you like to envision that then post it up in your room, some of us do not like reading that !@#$

CELTICS4LYFE
08-04-2009, 12:32 PM
Who the !@#$ cares...

The quote from the idiot Met's fan on your sig needs to go...

Are you serious? .... Who would promote that....

If you like to envision that then post it up in your room, some of us do not like reading that !@#$

thnnk you!

Chronz
08-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Without LeBron, they'll have a salary around 31-32 million dollars, with 9 players under contract. They have his Bird Rights, so can sign him for any price, regardless of the cap situation. I'm pretty sure they can afford a max player, and re-sign LeBron afterwards.

Regardless, most teams who have waited years for next off-season are going to be disappointed. Lower salary cap...probability of players re-signing...etc. It's gonna be a bust considering how much hype its getting.
Having Brons bird rights counts as a CAP hold, the only way they could sign a max player is if they renounced Brons rights and he took a paycut, ala Brand-Baron Davis, before Brand ****ed us in tha A.


What exactly does AV do that compliments Brons game so well? The only things Varejao brings to the table are toughness, and an occasional hustle play. Outside of that, he isn't really that good of a basketball player. When the Cavs are on offense he isn't even worth defending, and on the other side of the ball he really has problems against skilled low-post players. The Cavs would have been better off snagging Blair in the draft, and letting Andy walk, instead of giving him that insane contract extension.
Hes great off the ball, has become very adept at finishing his little flick shots in the paint, and hes one of the most versatile defenders in the league. Blair isnt the defender AV is and we have yet to see him play.

Chronz
08-04-2009, 12:50 PM
I really don't want to get into another Bynum vs Bargnani arguement but has Bynum really proven himelf playing 80 games in the last 2 seasons averaging 14 and 10.
80 games is sufficient proof. Believe me the ony ones who think he havent proven himself are rap fans.


Bynum also has more of a bust tag on him than Bargnani.
Hes already accomplished more than Bargs so Im not sure where you derived that factoid from.


We can't really know if Bynum will be the same after 2 straight knee injures in consecutive years. The only thing that might hold Bargnani right now is his playing time and he will get a lot of playing time for Triano.

Even if hes not the same this has nothing to do with the contract they signed him to. And if playing time holds anyone back then you got yourself a sorry player. Not getting heavy playing time never stopped the truly good players.


Bargnani was also on pace to average close to 20 points and 8 rebounds with the minutes he is suppose to get from Triano. If he did match that pace, Bargnani would have wanted more. I agree that Bargnani was overpaid but I would rather have Bargnani and for what he is worth than Bynum and his contract.
Thats because your a raptor fan. And again 20-8 in the minutes and efficiency he plays with doesnt warrant that contract.


Bargnani could have gotten a lot of money thrown at him if he did improve like teams from OKC and Memphis so it was smart to sign him with his pace of improvement.

Im curious, just how much money do you think they couldve thrown at him? And no it war far from smart.

Boston Faithful
08-04-2009, 01:19 PM
only people who never been there would say that. Plus only the stadium is in the city, other then that, players don't have to go there. So that makes no since.

But back to the topic, If bosh tells cleveland he would come to them, then the cavs can free up the money. moon and parker would be easy to trade. Plus Even if he can't have the max, then we can offer him a big deal with the chinese investors. Plus a championship.

No, but I do know most of Ohio is the middle of nowhere. Cleveland isn't exactly a nice city. Why would someone want to live there?

Hustla23
08-04-2009, 01:33 PM
Bad news for Cleveland.

Those short-sighted signings really hurt them.

Now with no second all star in 2010, will Lebron want to stay around?

GAWDtv
08-04-2009, 02:37 PM
YŠll don't realize but with Shaq in the post he has to be defended, can't leave him or we know what will happen. He eats up the key and forces people to shoot outside. Tony Parker is a great Perimeter defender and a great spot up shooter so if you leave him open and Shaq or Bron get it to him, he will drain shots ALL DAY. Moon is a long slasher with a good perimeter shot. He will get left open or able to shoot over his defender plus slash for dishes and Dunks in the lane. Jamario is also a good perimeter defender but will look great with Shaq or Ilgauskis behind him in the lane.

The pieces the Cavs picked up changed their weakness to a strength. If they can maybe move Mo or West with another piece and a draft pick for Boozer (or find a true power forward, Bass would have looked good in this spot). I heard Powe is a candidate for this spot and that would be sweet and affordable.

I agree they paid too much for Varijio. He is a hustle guy ala MArk MAdsen but he can do the dirty work and every team needs a garbage man. To pay him so much to come off the bench is a mistake in this economy with so many free agents available at that spot.

prodigy
08-04-2009, 02:49 PM
No, but I do know most of Ohio is the middle of nowhere. Cleveland isn't exactly a nice city. Why would someone want to live there?


Better then alot of other places. But like I said, most players live in avon lake, which is a great place to live. Plus most of cleveland is also very nice. There are bad areas, So people think the whole city is bad. Boston has bad areas, so should we Lable boston bad? common.

in the middle of nowhere? lol. you can say that about every place other then, NY, LA and vagas.

philab
08-04-2009, 02:49 PM
No, but I do know most of Ohio is the middle of nowhere. Cleveland isn't exactly a nice city. Why would someone want to live there?

Middle of nowhere my ***. Ohio is the 7th most populated state (greater population than Massachusetts) and the 9th most densely populated state.

Chronz
08-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Cleveland....... WE'RE NOT DETROIT

IndiansFan337
08-04-2009, 03:04 PM
I don't believe hardly any teams will have enough cap space to sign two max players if they cap does indeed drop by $8 million. :speechless:

The Cavs made these moves because they needed to improve & win this season to have any hope of retaining LBJ. They couldn't hold out hope that he would want to come back next year if we could get another superstar to come join him in Cleveland.

pebloemer
08-04-2009, 03:14 PM
YŠll don't realize but with Shaq in the post he has to be defended, can't leave him or we know what will happen. He eats up the key and forces people to shoot outside. Tony Parker is a great Perimeter defender and a great spot up shooter so if you leave him open and Shaq or Bron get it to him, he will drain shots ALL DAY. Moon is a long slasher with a good perimeter shot. He will get left open or able to shoot over his defender plus slash for dishes and Dunks in the lane. Jamario is also a good perimeter defender but will look great with Shaq or Ilgauskis behind him in the lane.

The pieces the Cavs picked up changed their weakness to a strength. If they can maybe move Mo or West with another piece and a draft pick for Boozer (or find a true power forward, Bass would have looked good in this spot). I heard Powe is a candidate for this spot and that would be sweet and affordable.

I agree they paid too much for Varijio. He is a hustle guy ala MArk MAdsen but he can do the dirty work and every team needs a garbage man. To pay him so much to come off the bench is a mistake in this economy with so many free agents available at that spot.

Anthony Parker. I got confused there for a bit, but realized it was just a typo.

Parker is a good a shooter, but interestingly enough he seems better when his shots are contested :). I would say Parker is an average perimeter defender. He really showed signs of getting older last year. But at the value you guys got him for, he should be well worth it. Very coachable, does a lot of the little things, makes great decisions. I'm sure he'll fit well, I'm just not sure he fits your description so well.

Moon is not a slasher (he can't dribble) and his perimeter shot is decent at best. He wasn't a great man to man defender consistently, but excelled against weaker, longer opponents (ie. Deng). He is a good help defender and rebounder, but you'll get annoyed when he falls in love with his shot and jacks up a 3 pter 5 seconds into the shot clock.

still1ballin
08-04-2009, 03:14 PM
too too bad

Raps18-19 Champ
08-04-2009, 03:16 PM
1.80 games is sufficient proof. Believe me the ony ones who think he havent proven himself are rap fans


2.Hes already accomplished more than Bargs so Im not sure where you derived that factoid from.


3.Even if hes not the same this has nothing to do with the contract they signed him to. And if playing time holds anyone back then you got yourself a sorry player. Not getting heavy playing time never stopped the truly good players.


4.Thats because your a raptor fan. And again 20-8 in the minutes and efficiency he plays with doesnt warrant that contract.


5.Im curious, just how much money do you think they couldve thrown at him? And no it war far from smart.

1.80 games in 2 season doesn't really prove anything to me. Sure you can get those stats but can you get in in a full season?

2. Because he hasn't proven he can stay healthy. Freak injury or not, he's been injured the last 2 years. We also don't know if he can continue at his pace when he has already had 2 surgery on his knee out of 3 injuries. He has been gone for about 3-4 months this year and about 5-6 months last year and that takes a toll on his knees and his game makes it even more of a chance he can injure it again.

Only reason Bargnani hasn't accomplished as much is because he is playing out of position and he hasn't had the chances until Triano came in. It is already a miracle he averaged 20 and 7 as a C and he is naturally a PF which if he played PF on a team, he would accomplish way more.

3. I was saying that Bargnani wasn't given the minutes or the chances. Why sign a player to a contract if they have been injured the last 2 seasons with the same problem? 58mil in 4 years doesn't make any sense when he hasn't truly proven himself. I agree that Bargnani was overpaid too but compared to Bynum, we got a steal because we got him at a cheaper price and longer contract.

4. True but you are a Lakers fan and I'm sure that more people would want Bargnani and his 50 mil and 5 year contract over Bynum and his 58mil and 4 years contract even when you include Bynum's faster progress than Bargnani because of Bynum's tag as injury prone. The only thing that holds Bargnani back right now is an injury and Bynum has a better chance of getting injured than Bargnani

5. A lot of teams wanted to offer guys like David Lee, Paul Millsap, a couple of other big men around 10 million or more and Bargnani avergaed just as good when he was getting the minutes. Bargnani was to get around 34 minutes this season for the whole season as a starter. At that rate, Bargnani would have avergaed around 19-20 ppg, 7-8rpg and 1.6 bpg.

GSW fan
08-04-2009, 04:16 PM
its not for sure that the cap even drops at all.

If the economy continues going up, then the cap might even go back up to where it was last year.

plus, cleveland can still make some trades for some expirings

and hey, they might win a ring and not need to bring in another superstar, just resign shaq and lebron

The article is basically worst case scenario for the Cavs

Chronz
08-04-2009, 04:36 PM
1.80 games in 2 season doesn't really prove anything to me. Sure you can get those stats but can you get in in a full season?
You have no idea how bogus that sounds. Name to me a player who displayed this high a level of play for 80 games and reverted to a drastically lower rate of production when he came back to health. Even if there was a regression it would be insignificant, thus making your point moot. Its not like hes going to significantly change.


2. Because he hasn't proven he can stay healthy. Freak injury or not, he's been injured the last 2 years. We also don't know if he can continue at his pace when he has already had 2 surgery on his knee out of 3 injuries. He has been gone for about 3-4 months this year and about 5-6 months last year and that takes a toll on his knees and his game makes it even more of a chance he can injure it again.
That doesnt make him a bust, it makes him unlucky. And of course he can continue at this pace, hes young, knee injuries may effect him down the road, luckily hes not at that stage nor will he be throughout the duration of the contract. Staying healthy isnt some sort of skill, its a product of luck and some offseason workouts.


Only reason Bargnani hasn't accomplished as much is because he is playing out of position and he hasn't had the chances until Triano came in. It is already a miracle he averaged 20 and 7 as a C and he is naturally a PF which if he played PF on a team, he would accomplish way more.

Really now, WAY more you say? Look the fact that you think its a miracle that he put up those #'s is sad.


3. I was saying that Bargnani wasn't given the minutes or the chances. Why sign a player to a contract if they have been injured the last 2 seasons with the same problem?
Ugh that didnt happen till AFTER he signed the extension. And you sign it to him because you have very little options. The Raps however held ALL of the cards and still folded.


58mil in 4 years doesn't make any sense when he hasn't truly proven himself.
No matter how many times you say this, it wont make it true. Hes already proven himself, the only thing thats in question is whether or not he will have someone drop their entire body on his knee cap. Thats not something teams would shy away from regarding a players value.



I agree that Bargnani was overpaid too but compared to Bynum, we got a steal because we got him at a cheaper price and longer contract.
LOL not even remotely true, the thing is, even if we say both are comparable the facts are the market value at the time wasnt.


4. True but you are a Lakers fan and I'm sure that more people would want Bargnani and his 50 mil and 5 year contract over Bynum and his 58mil and 4 years contract even when you include Bynum's faster progress than Bargnani because of Bynum's tag as injury prone. The only thing that holds Bargnani back right now is an injury and Bynum has a better chance of getting injured than Bargnani

No I am NOT a Lakers fan. The mere fact that you think so is why its hard to take you seriously. Im sure most GM's would rather have Bynum than Bargs. And believe me nobody cares that Bynum had someone fall on him, that incident would injure anyone. What matters is the level of play when healthy. Bargs has a better chance at getting injured than he does of reaching Bynums potential.


5. A lot of teams wanted to offer guys like David Lee, Paul Millsap, a couple of other big men around 10 million or more and Bargnani avergaed just as good when he was getting the minutes. Bargnani was to get around 34 minutes this season for the whole season as a starter. At that rate, Bargnani would have avergaed around 19-20 ppg, 7-8rpg and 1.6 bpg.

Let me get this straight, Bynum plays 80 games of elite basketball, but Bargs gos through a stretch of like a month and its his established level of play. God your not very good at hiding your bias.

Again your not answering the question. The Thunder didnt even go after those guys and those other teams that did went after them because the window was open now not next year when Bargs was a FA. And even if we were to ignore the fact that Bargs #'s came in smaller sample than theirs he didnt average just as good so they werent going to value him as highly also theres the fact that even if they did value Bargs that profoundly they couldnt offer the money your GM gave him. There was no market for Bargs, the Raps held all the leverage because they held his RESTRICTED rights, if there was to be an offer they couldve matched it, and believe me NOONE in the league was going to offer Bargs that kind of money especially with the economy and salary cap going the way it is. You guys had all the leverage and did nothing, the Lakers werent as fortunate.

Both overpaid, but compared to the Bargs signing the Lakers look like geniuses.