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View Full Version : New, Roenicke, wants to close



rapsrapsraps
08-02-2009, 10:45 AM
sure, why not? Downs is still only doing it out of some cito-perceived necessity because league and frasor have yet to get a shot, despite downs's struggles. so why not? he's got a good fastball and a serviceable slider. That's all you really need; locate the fastball and toss in a slider every once in a while, with two strikes.


At some point in the near future, the Blue Jays will be looking for a closer. Josh Roenicke -- acquired in the trade that sent veteran third baseman Scott Rolen to the Reds on Friday -- is hoping he might receive a chance to show he can handle that role.

"I'd love that," Roenicke said. "That was always my goal -- to close in the big leagues. If I get the opportunity, that's all I an ask for and just do what I can. That'd be a great role for me, I think, and obviously it'd help the team out. I'll do what I can wherever they put me."

cito:
"We'll wait and see. We'll see how he fares here," Gaston said. "We're not going to rush him into anything. ... You can have the arm, but you certainly have to have the makeup for it. I know that from '94, when we got off to a great start and I tried everybody and their brother in that role."


repertoire:
There is no denying that the right-handed Roenicke has the stuff to potentially land such a job in his future. His fastball touches 98 mph and his slider has become a valuable weapon. The Blue Jays have had their eye on Roenicke's arm for some time now and were thrilled to pry him away from Cincinnati.

Roenicke, who will turn 27 on Tuesday, posted a 2.70 ERA in 11 games out of the Reds' bullpen this season. In 27 games with Triple-A Louisville this year, he fashioned a 2.57 ERA with 32 strikeouts and six walks over 28 innings. Since being selected in the 10th round of the 2006 Draft, Roenicke earned a reputation as the hardest-throwing pitcher in the Reds' system.


http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090801&content_id=6191116&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

Bluerapoileagle
08-02-2009, 10:47 AM
I want to try League and Frasor first, but if they struggle, I'd like to see him.

wamco
08-02-2009, 10:54 AM
consistency/durability are two great traits for closers. League does not fit that.

Twitchy
08-02-2009, 11:10 AM
I don't get where all the hate from League is coming from. He strikes out almost a guy per inning. He strikes out 3 times as many guys as he walks. He's given up less hits than innings pitched. His FIP is 3.57. His XFIP is 3.33.The ERA he has doesn't match his performance. Which makes sense, because it's such a small sample size (49 innings).

I'd rather League not close because I want my best arm pitching in high leverage situations (which is rarely the ninth with a 3 run lead). But there's no doubt in my mind that League's one of the best relievers we have. I don't see the problem with having League as a closer. He's been doing everything you can ask for as a pitcher - high strikeout totals, high groundball %, and low walk numbers.

Luca68
08-02-2009, 11:30 AM
i reallly think jason frasor can be a consistent closer .

Zaunnie
08-02-2009, 11:33 AM
Just as long as it's not Accrapo...

heusy_79
08-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Just as long as it's not Accrapo...

I think he was sent back to Vegas.

blujaysrock
08-02-2009, 11:53 AM
I'd try Jason Frasor and if he doesn't work out, the try Roenicke, I think Frasor could be god though, he's pretty consistent and has closed for us before, although that was in his rookie year, he may still have it.

Jamiecballer
08-02-2009, 12:04 PM
I don't get where all the hate from League is coming from. He strikes out almost a guy per inning. He strikes out 3 times as many guys as he walks. He's given up less hits than innings pitched. His FIP is 3.57. His XFIP is 3.33.The ERA he has doesn't match his performance. Which makes sense, because it's such a small sample size (49 innings).

I'd rather League not close because I want my best arm pitching in high leverage situations (which is rarely the ninth with a 3 run lead). But there's no doubt in my mind that League's one of the best relievers we have. I don't see the problem with having League as a closer. He's been doing everything you can ask for as a pitcher - high strikeout totals, high groundball %, and low walk numbers.

Twitchy if you're not the most argumentative poster I've ever seen...... according to you EVERYTHING is a small sample size.

Twitchy
08-02-2009, 12:23 PM
Twitchy if you're not the most argumentative poster I've ever seen...... according to you EVERYTHING is a small sample size.

Not everything is a small sample size, but I sure wouldn't judge a player on 200 at bats or 50 innings.

With relievers you have to focus on rate stats (K/9, BB/9 etc) because they don't pitch enough innings to have a useful sample size. Think about it - League's pitched 49 innings - that's maybe 7 or 8 starts for a starter. Would you judge a starter based on 7-8 starts? No, you wouldn't. If you did that'd be crazy.

If you wanna accurately judge relievers you can't just look at ERA and say "oh he's been inconsistent". One bad month for a reliever and it ruins their entire season. League's done the 3 most important things a pitcher can do - strikeout guys at a high rate, keep the walks down, and keep the ball on the ground.

Bluerapoileagle
08-02-2009, 12:36 PM
I don't get where all the hate from League is coming from. He strikes out almost a guy per inning. He strikes out 3 times as many guys as he walks. He's given up less hits than innings pitched. His FIP is 3.57. His XFIP is 3.33.The ERA he has doesn't match his performance. Which makes sense, because it's such a small sample size (49 innings).

I'd rather League not close because I want my best arm pitching in high leverage situations (which is rarely the ninth with a 3 run lead). But there's no doubt in my mind that League's one of the best relievers we have. I don't see the problem with having League as a closer. He's been doing everything you can ask for as a pitcher - high strikeout totals, high groundball %, and low walk numbers.

Agreed, I think both Frasor and League would be good, although Frasor has looked pretty good in his last few apperances, especially last night saving the game.

T.O. Fan
08-02-2009, 12:43 PM
It won't hurt to give him a shot.

Whatever role the Jays have for League, they need to keep his innings down to 1 per outing. It seems that when he's asked to pitch more than 1 inning he gets hit around a little bit.

blujaysrock
08-02-2009, 12:45 PM
Not everything is a small sample size, but I sure wouldn't judge a player on 200 at bats or 50 innings.

With relievers you have to focus on rate stats (K/9, BB/9 etc) because they don't pitch enough innings to have a useful sample size. Think about it - League's pitched 49 innings - that's maybe 7 or 8 starts for a starter. Would you judge a starter based on 7-8 starts? No, you wouldn't. If you did that'd be crazy.

If you wanna accurately judge relievers you can't just look at ERA and say "oh he's been inconsistent". One bad month for a reliever and it ruins their entire season. League's done the 3 most important things a pitcher can do - strikeout guys at a high rate, keep the walks down, and keep the ball on the ground.

Nice post, I agree, ERA for a reliever can be deadly, even a week they could give up 8 runs if they have a bad week which will take a toll on their ERA like you said. League maybe isn't the most consistent guy on our team but when he's on he is a beast, I'd try either Frasor or League at the closer role and the chances of both of them doing bad is pretty slim, we still have Roenicke who wants to be a closer so that is good, I look forward to seeing what Roenicke brings to the team.

T.O. Fan
08-02-2009, 12:52 PM
......another thing about League.

I find it really interesting that in his career the year after he's been really good he seems to struggle.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=434181

The_Realist
08-02-2009, 01:10 PM
^^ I'm not really sure what you're point is here. Do you think he is having a bad season this year because if so, you are wrong my friend. In 2007, League had arm problems becasue of surfing too much and gaining too much muscle(at least that's the rumour). His velocity is somewhere around 95 now and he has incredible movement. League could have the best stuff I have ever seen, which means he may develop into the next Rivera. Just saying...

B2theRY
08-02-2009, 01:54 PM
i say give everyone a chance
the team sucks this year
****

Try Wells at Catcher who cares.

McJoe
08-02-2009, 02:08 PM
I really liked the Roenicke pickup. He has been a top 10 prospect in 3 different organizations now having started in Houston, traded to San Diego, and then to the Reds. He could actually be a really good pickup.

bomber0104
08-02-2009, 03:08 PM
This is what I would do if Downs is out

Roenick in the 7th
Frasor in the 8th
League in the 9th

miller74
08-02-2009, 03:54 PM
What does everyone and cito have Against accardo, he has closed well in the past and now he can't even stay in the majors. And all the love for league? He's trash gets beat up all the time accardo he's shown throughtt his career he's better then league

T.O. Fan
08-02-2009, 05:31 PM
^^ I'm not really sure what you're point is here. Do you think he is having a bad season this year because if so, you are wrong my friend. In 2007, League had arm problems becasue of surfing too much and gaining too much muscle(at least that's the rumour). His velocity is somewhere around 95 now and he has incredible movement. League could have the best stuff I have ever seen, which means he may develop into the next Rivera. Just saying...

I'm pretty sure my point clearly stated in that it's interesting how his stats go up and down from one season to the next.

If you looked at the link then perhaps it may have been a little more clear for you.....

Saying he may develop into the next "Rivera", perhaps the best closer in MLB history is more than a little premature.

BlueJayFanDan
08-02-2009, 05:44 PM
I really like League but I dont think he is ready for the closer role yet. Best bet for now is Frasor. He has been the most consistent and I think he would do well in the closer role. Maybe down the road Roenicke or League could be closers but the safest bet now is Frasor.

bomber0104
08-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Roenicke looked good today

laker18
08-02-2009, 07:53 PM
id give him a shot at closer. He is healthy, was good in todays game and has the velocity to potentially be a closer. He also has good control.

besides, the jays are desperate for a replacement for ryan and i dont think downs is it.

T.O. Fan
08-03-2009, 05:34 PM
A cool thing about Roenicke is that his brother Jason was drafted by the Jays last year in the 19th round.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=519219

Zaunnie
08-03-2009, 05:45 PM
i say give everyone a chance
the team sucks this year
****

Try Wells at Catcher who cares.

I would honestly like to see that

H-MYK
08-03-2009, 07:58 PM
I would like to see League or Frasor close first, however, since we're pretty much done, it shouldn't hurt to give this guy a shot.

bartron_44
08-04-2009, 08:49 AM
I really don't think League has the CONSISTENCY to be our closer yet. Sure, I will admit that when he is on, and can CONTROL that foolish sinker of his, he is absolutely lethal, but he just has way too many "off" days imo to be a closer in the AL East where every game is so crucial...

When your trying to keep up with the likes of the Yankees ans the Redsox, then you need a LOCKDOWN type closer. As good as Downs was before he got hurt, he does not really have closer type stuff imo.

7th-League
8th-Downs (when healthy again)/Frasor (when Downs cannot, or depending on matchups)
9th-Roenicke

This way, if League starts to get in trouble , we still have Frasor and Downs to bail him out and bridge the gap on those off nights, and a couple innings to comeback if he really blows it in a 1 run game.

I really think with Roenicke's velocity and control, he has the best makeup of a closer now in our bullpen; and ,he is hungry for the role. I am not saying toss him in straight away, but he should def be given a chance to prove himself in that role before the season is over.

I also would also ship Carlson down to AAA if possible to see what the other kid we picked up can do. He was only drafted last year and is already in AAA! Why not call him up in September and get his feet wet? It lets us see what he can do at this level, and it gives him some experience for motivation in the offseason...Carlson has been awful this season, and this kid is also supposed to have closer type stuff.

I personally think this trade is starting to look better and better. If the trade actually solidifies our bullpen again, JP will have actually fixed our biggest current problem. Sure we sacrificed a GREAT player, and I have as much love for Rolen as any Jays fan...but we have an extra 6M to put back into our starting rotation or batting order for next season now, have a young 3B who has had great offensive seasons when healthy in the past, a potential lockdown closer, and another young arm to add to our bullpen depth for trade flexibilty in the offseason. Hmmm, imo JP gets an A+ on this one..

rubeus
08-04-2009, 12:21 PM
+1


i personally think this trade is starting to look better and better. If the trade actually solidifies our bullpen again, jp will have actually fixed our biggest current problem. Sure we sacrificed a great player, and i have as much love for rolen as any jays fan...but we have an extra 6m to put back into our starting rotation or batting order for next season now, have a young 3b who has had great offensive seasons when healthy in the past, a potential lockdown closer, and another young arm to add to our bullpen depth for trade flexibilty in the offseason. Hmmm, imo jp gets an a+ on this one..

Flamarlins21
08-10-2009, 05:39 PM
Hey guys.

I got to watch newly acquired Zach Stewart this season in Double-A so I just throw my two cents in. I watched him pitch in the rotation for the Mudcats this year and wow. He and our other ace at the time, Tim Wood, DOMINATED Southern League batters. Seriously it was crazy how great that tandem was. Stewy just came up to Double-A and didn't look back. In seven Double-A starts, Stewart went 3-0 with a 1.46 ERA. He had 31 punch outs with only 10 walks. Anyway, he was called up to Trips and moved to the bullpen and dominated there as well, as he had a .73 ERA in 9 appearances out of the pen. He should get a look in September and might could be a good closer, I dunno, he may be better as a set up guy, not too sure, I just know that he's gonna be pretty good for you guys.

Bluerapoileagle
08-10-2009, 07:26 PM
^^Thanks for the report, sounds good.

fatkev78
08-10-2009, 08:53 PM
Hey guys.

I got to watch newly acquired Zach Stewart this season in Double-A so I just throw my two cents in. I watched him pitch in the rotation for the Mudcats this year and wow. He and our other ace at the time, Tim Wood, DOMINATED Southern League batters. Seriously it was crazy how great that tandem was. Stewy just came up to Double-A and didn't look back. In seven Double-A starts, Stewart went 3-0 with a 1.46 ERA. He had 31 punch outs with only 10 walks. Anyway, he was called up to Trips and moved to the bullpen and dominated there as well, as he had a .73 ERA in 9 appearances out of the pen. He should get a look in September and might could be a good closer, I dunno, he may be better as a set up guy, not too sure, I just know that he's gonna be pretty good for you guys.


Thanks man! Word is the Jays are going to try him as a starter next season.

Flamarlins21
08-10-2009, 09:47 PM
Thanks man! Word is the Jays are going to try him as a starter next season.

I personally like him as a starter, so that's good. He'll do well in whatever he does.