PDA

View Full Version : Do MJ imitators really understand what made MJ great?



asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:11 PM
i was watching this ad of his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOu_4l3lio and then i realized may be he did ruin the game. too many players these days want to be the guy doing the fancy moves and trying to make crazy shots. too many players want to be like kobe or jordan. there is something to the fact nba is loaded with talented SG's and PG's while SF's PF's and C's are almost empty empty talent wise.

what do you think? no bashing people. i just want some smart and mature conversation here.

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-26-2009, 08:15 PM
No

Hawkeye15
07-26-2009, 08:17 PM
that is stupid, no offense. Michael Jordan made the game explode internationally, and made kids work their tails off. MJ saved basketball after the Magic/Bird era.
Michael Jordan was the best thing that happened to basketball. I love the Laney references in the commercial. This is a kid who was cut as a sophomore, and never stopped working. The most competitive basketball player to ever live. If you sense my admiration for Jordan, good, cause I am laying it on pretty thick.

marvILLous
07-26-2009, 08:17 PM
lmao

Lakergirl24
07-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Jordan was the greatest that ever played the game. Thats why others who come along want to be like him. When you're as great as Jordan, Kobe, Wade, etc, people will want to emulate you. Theres nothing wrong with that. So no he did not ruin the game.

Wade_County
07-26-2009, 08:20 PM
agree with all the comments so far

kingbrentg
07-26-2009, 08:21 PM
I actually don't even know what to say.

b_rad23
07-26-2009, 08:21 PM
The SF and PF positions are pretty damn loaded...

zamudio_jorge
07-26-2009, 08:21 PM
the only weak position is center

Reyes6
07-26-2009, 08:21 PM
Julius Erving had the flash way before Jordan. Blame him before Jordan... and besides, style hasn't ruined the game. Rather it has increased popularity and enjoyment.

Did Babe Ruth ruin Baseball?

JWO35
07-26-2009, 08:22 PM
I think Jordan ruined Kwame Brown?
Does that count....

OA SLAY
07-26-2009, 08:24 PM
he just want some smart and mature conversation here.....Iz He For Real!

bagwell368
07-26-2009, 08:27 PM
Actually, its not totally crazy. Jordan and Jackson's triangle offense and the 3 point line has altered forever the way the game is played, and boosted the importance of outside shooters at the expense of low post players.

Also college football/NFL has drained off a lot of great 6' 6" and above athletes.

But the simple statement that is being made is far too simplistic to deserve a yes or a no.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:30 PM
are you kidding me? get out of here with this nonsense thread.
What's wrong with wanting to be the best? This is one of the worst threads I've seen in a while.

nothing is wrong with wanting to be the best but everyone wanting to be exactly like jordan, that is ridiculous. noone tries to be like Shaq or Wilt or Jason Kidd anymore ( save a few players ). its always about how i am going to cross you this way or that way and then shoot the ball in your face.

plus people stop bashing. i want to have a normal peaceful conversation. i am just observing a fact about people who play basketball these days.

Wilson
07-26-2009, 08:30 PM
Michael Jordan didn't ruin basketball. Anybody who watched him knew that he was a tenacious competitor, played hard defense, and did what it took to win the game. Anybody who watched his Nike ads knew that he could do some fancy ****.

The problems with the game come from people trying to imitate the fancy ****, rather than the competitiveness, will to win and defensive intensity.

So if people want to point fingers, they should be pointing at either Nike, or the people who put all their attention on the ads.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:34 PM
Michael Jordan didn't ruin basketball. Anybody who watched him knew that he was a tenacious competitor, played hard defense, and did what it took to win the game. Anybody who watched his Nike ads knew that he could do some fancy ****.

The problems with the game come from people trying to imitate the fancy ****, rather than the competitiveness, will to win and defensive intensity.

So if people want to point fingers, they should be pointing at either Nike, or the people who put all their attention on the ads.

thank you. this is what i was trying to point to. all these bashers dont see this part.

Missing56&33
07-26-2009, 08:34 PM
I guess you want to see players still playing in short shorts and chuck Taylor's for the rest of your life and not see the game evolve to another level. MJ made the game more exciting....bird and magic had to pass the torch to somebody....couldn't have been a better person to pass the torch too.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:35 PM
say what? who are you? ohhhhhhhh........your a sam bowie fan..i get it now

no. i am a wilt chamberlain fan.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:36 PM
haha go observe cricket..that is where you belong.

cricket sucks, dude. its worse than baseball.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:39 PM
I guess you want to see players still playing in short shorts and chuck Taylor's for the rest of your life and not see the game evolve to another level. MJ made the game more exciting....bird and magic had to pass the torch to somebody....couldn't have been a better person to pass the torch too.

no no no. i meant the part where people want to be the flashiest guy around rather than the most determined player. plus shorts shorts and chuck taylors have nothing to do with this. we are talking about basketball not fashion

Tha Truth
07-26-2009, 08:41 PM
Did Jordan ruin the game of basketball?

I didn't think it was possible to even form this sentence.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Did Jordan ruin the game of basketball?

I didn't think it was possible to even form this sentence.


listen jordan didn't ruin it by his playing style. the people who tried to follow jordan's perfection and flashiness did. they overlooked the part where he was determined, etc etc.

ink
07-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Actually, its not totally crazy. Jordan and Jackson's triangle offense and the 3 point line has altered forever the way the game is played, and boosted the importance of outside shooters at the expense of low post players.

I agree, it's not completely crazy. Saying he "ruined" the game is just an over-statement. He didn't ruin it because he's not responsible for what people do to imitate him. But in the period after Jordan we definitely saw a low point where the imitators and media all tried pathetically to create the "next MJ". That was brutal.

That's not his fault. But I do think the game changed for the worse.


The problems with the game come from people trying to imitate the fancy ****, rather than the competitiveness, will to win and defensive intensity.

Exactly. The imitators didn't understand how many different aspects there were to being a truly "great" champion. Kobe has learned. He is a very impressive heir to MJ. I think Wade is another. Lebron is a phenomenal natural talent who is still learning because he still doesn't have the mental drive and discipline that MJ had. Players like AI and Carter have had more or less success but so far they haven't shown themselves to be much more than pretenders to the "throne". That's the problem I have with those two in general. They imitated some of MJ's outward skills and talents, without having the inner abilities of a champion. I know a lot of Carter fans think he's made the transformation late in his career. We'll have to see.

But I definitely don't think the question is a stupid one. In fact, I think NBA execs, media execs, and advertising execs should be busting their ***** to ensure that the post-MJ imitator period never happens again.

I think we're moving out of that period. If you look at some of today's stars you see more than just outward flash. There are some pretty damn good players following in the mold of the true greats. They're the ones that understand that Jordan wasn't just about the highlight reel dunks or the ISO plays.

Trouble87
07-26-2009, 08:47 PM
no he did not ruin the game of basketball...

just the Wizards, Kwame Brown, and soon the Charlotte Bobcats

VIP1349
07-26-2009, 08:48 PM
I won't bash you. I think he changed basketball that’s for sure. He did make it a bit more of a "stars" league per say. But regardless to almost anybody that would seem to be improving. We are a society that wants the above and beyond. We don't want to see lay-ups we want to see people getting dunked on. But yeah for the people who do like the old fashion ball it could be seen as ruining it. However the new style reaches out a lot better world wide which improves the amount of viewers. You seem to like the old-school, type ball so I can see why you'd dislike it.

NJrockPD
07-26-2009, 08:48 PM
i was watching this ad of his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOu_4l3lio and then i realized may be he did ruin the game. too many players these days want to be the guy doing the fancy moves and trying to make crazy shots. too many players want to be like kobe or jordan. there is something to the fact nba is loaded with talented SG's and PG's while SF's PF's and C's are almost empty empty talent wise.

what do you think? no bashing people. i just want some smart and mature conversation here.

Please stop comparing Kobe to Jordan like they are on the same level, they aren't. Kobe is one of the players trying to be like Jordan. I think there are more talented SG's and PG's then there are SF,PF, and C's are because there are more people in the height range. The height of a PG or SG ranges between 5'10" and 6'6", the height of players at the SF, PF, and C positions range from 6'7" and 7'0+. My point is I just think there are a ton of people who fit in the size range of the PG/SG position and falls off drastically from there. If there are 10,000 trying to be the next Jordan and 1,000 people trying to be the next Kareem I think there should be a lot more talent at one position over the other.

CowboysKB24
07-26-2009, 08:49 PM
i was watching this ad of his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOu_4l3lio and then i realized may be he did ruin the game. too many players these days want to be the guy doing the fancy moves and trying to make crazy shots. too many players want to be like kobe or jordan. there is something to the fact nba is loaded with talented SG's and PG's while SF's PF's and C's are almost empty empty talent wise.

what do you think? no bashing people. i just want some smart and mature conversation here.

If you want a smart mature conversation you are on the wrong site.

Sports Illustrator
07-26-2009, 08:51 PM
Absolutely not. Basketball wouldn't have been the same without him. I actually like that people are trying to be the best they can be, but still no one will ever be like Jordan.

ink
07-26-2009, 08:51 PM
plus people stop bashing. i want to have a normal peaceful conversation. i am just observing a fact about people who play basketball these days.

Totally valid thread IMO. I just wouldn't go so far as to say he "ruined" it.

I would say though that Jordan wasn't necessarily the best thing to happen to the game. Because HE could do everything -- I mean, ****, the guy was a phenomenon -- all of his imitators started trying to do everything themselves too. THAT almost ruined the game. We entered the era of the ballhog with a vengeance. The thing is, Jordan wasn't all about hogging the ball. He was a great leader and team player too.

NYtilIdie
07-26-2009, 08:51 PM
Jordan changed the game of basketball by influencing players to work harder to become the best.He set the standards for todays players. Players today like Kobe,Lebron,Wade practice hard to improve their game cause they don't want to be like Jordan they want to be better then him. Do you think Kobe would be the phenomenal player he is today if Jordan never picked up a ball? He would be a great ball player, but most likely not the player he is today. Jordan showed people that practice makes perfect which is why Kobe wakes up at 5 every morning and goes to the gym to improve his game.

As for the fancy moves and shots you act like him making those famous is a bad thing. That is what keeps the NBA entertaining the game can only be old fashioned for so long until it gets stale which is why Dr.J became a fan favorite cause he brought the flash and thrills and changed the game.

Plus can you imagine a league full of players that play like Tim Duncan? Yeah I think 1 Mr. Fundamentals is enough.

xxxplicit69
07-26-2009, 08:52 PM
i was watching this ad of his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woOu_4l3lio and then i realized may be he did ruin the game. too many players these days want to be the guy doing the fancy moves and trying to make crazy shots. too many players want to be like kobe or jordan. there is something to the fact nba is loaded with talented SG's and PG's while SF's PF's and C's are almost empty empty talent wise.

what do you think? no bashing people. i just want some smart and mature conversation here.

WWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTTTT? LOL (this might sound like a weird comparison, but jordan is to stern as hogan was to vince mcmahon) they were able to market the sport on a whole nother level. I don't believe the NBA was a top viewed sport before the jordan era, but when mike hit the scene, shoe sales (especially shoe sales) jerseys, etc sky rocketed. and this is apart of the game, this is what helps these players get these 100mill contracts because of the viewers, the ratings, the merchandise, the ticket sales. A team like the raptors back in the early 2000s
could sell out the arena just based on what VC was going to do. As for the style of play, Jordan added flair, versitility, and style to the game. Before, players used to wear high *** shorts, as far as skills you either had a player that could shoot, or dribble or pass or be a high flyer, but with mike, he was all those players in one, i hear a commentator say jordan could shoot like west and fly like doc. It created the hybrid player that couldn't be stopped, could take over a game single handedly down the stretch and frustrated the hell out of defenses. No offense laker fans but if there wasn't a mike, there might not have been a kobe, or any other high flight, 3pt shooting, ball handling protype 6'6' 220 SGs or SFs in the game. And I understand that the real blue colar sport fans dont care for the flash, the glam, and etc, but it is those traits that help market the nba world wide. Even for those who don't know all about the game can still enjoy the sport because of how the players play the game today. Now on that note, its not like the nba is becoming an and 1 playground tournament, this is why the nba drafts players from overseas so you can still have the fundamental players play the game, not just high flyers out of high school or one year of college. The Nba has a good mix of different types of players and different styles of play, but to sale out the seats, you need that player that can bring to similar attributes to the game that jordan brought.:smoking:

dtmagnet
07-26-2009, 08:53 PM
When I read the title to this thread I burst out laughing. You are clownin' man.

clutchski
07-26-2009, 08:53 PM
Of course players today want to 'be like Michael' or 'be like Kobe'..that's what makes the game exciting and brings the fans.

Same thing in almost every sport..Ovechkin, Ronaldinho, even 'flashy' baseball players (Manny and his antics?)

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 08:56 PM
I won't bash you. I think he changed basketball that’s for sure. He did make it a bit more of a "stars" league per say. But regardless to almost anybody that would seem to be improving. We are a society that wants the above and beyond. We don't want to see lay-ups we want to see people getting dunked on. But yeah for the people who do like the old fashion ball it could be seen as ruining it. However the new style reaches out a lot better world wide which improves the amount of viewers. You seem to like the old-school, type ball so I can see why you'd dislike it.

thanks for not bashing and making valid points. i do agree with this. with my statement people think i am blaming jordan for this. i am actually blaming the imitators. jordan is a great fellow. his playing style was excellent. but he set standards so high that everyone wants to copy his flashiness not his drive

Tha Truth
07-26-2009, 08:56 PM
I agree, it's not completely crazy. Saying he "ruined" the game is just an over-statement. He didn't ruin it because he's not responsible for what people do to imitate him. But in the period after Jordan we definitely saw a low point where the imitators and media all tried pathetically to create the "next MJ". That was brutal.

That's not his fault. But I do think the game changed for the worse.



Exactly. The imitators didn't understand how many different aspects there were to being a truly "great" champion. Kobe has learned. He is a very impressive heir to MJ. I think Wade is another. Lebron is a phenomenal natural talent who is still learning because he still doesn't have the mental drive and discipline that MJ had. Players like AI and Carter have had more or less success but so far they haven't shown themselves to be much more than pretenders to the "throne". That's the problem I have with those two in general. They imitated some of MJ's outward skills and talents, without having the inner abilities of a champion. I know a lot of Carter fans think he's made the transformation late in his career. We'll have to see.

But I definitely don't think the question is a stupid one. In fact, I think NBA execs, media execs, and advertising execs should be busting their ***** to ensure that the post-MJ imitator period never happens again.

I think we're moving out of that period. If you look at some of today's stars you see more than just outward flash. There are some pretty damn good players following in the mold of the true greats. They're the ones that understand that Jordan wasn't just about the highlight reel dunks or the ISO plays.

I agree here. Saying he ruined the game is an overstatement for sure. But he did definitely change the game because that's what great players do.

Konstruktive
07-26-2009, 08:56 PM
safe to say you ruined a thread

ink
07-26-2009, 08:57 PM
thanks for not bashing and making valid points. i do agree with this. with my statement people think i am blaming jordan for this. i am actually blaming the imitators. jordan is a great fellow. his playing style was excellent. but he set standards so high that everyone wants to copy his flashiness not his drive.

I'm with you on that.

Fans are probably too starstruck to take a totally valid point seriously. That's the irony.

ink
07-26-2009, 08:59 PM
safe to say you ruined a thread

Who did? :confused:

Draco
07-26-2009, 08:59 PM
In my opinion what hurt the league was out of control contracts and younger, less skilled rookie classes. I'd look at Glenn Davis and Kevin Garnett.

aWiLL 20
07-26-2009, 09:13 PM
thanks for not bashing and making valid points. i do agree with this. with my statement people think i am blaming jordan for this. i am actually blaming the imitators. jordan is a great fellow. his playing style was excellent. but he set standards so high that everyone wants to copy his flashiness not his drive


If so, you need to change the title of the thread to "Did MJ IMITATORS ruin the game?"

It's a little misleading to the point you are trying to make...I'm with you though...the flashy style of basketball can be disgusting...i'll take a bounce pass over a behind the back pass anyday....plain fundamentals get the job done...flashiness sells jerseys to people who overlook the way basketball should be played

theuuord
07-26-2009, 09:15 PM
If you want a smart mature conversation you are on the wrong site.

lol, it's sad how true this statement is.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 09:17 PM
If so, you need to change the title of the thread to "Did MJ IMITATORS ruin the game?"

It's a little misleading to the point you are trying to make...I'm with you though...the flashy style of basketball can be disgusting...i'll take a bounce pass over a behind the back pass anyday....plain fundamentals get the job done...flashiness sells jerseys to people who overlook the way basketball should be played

how do you change the title?

theuuord
07-26-2009, 09:18 PM
how do you change the title?

i think the Mods have to do it.

CaleX(RR)MIA™
07-26-2009, 09:18 PM
no he didnt people just raised their standards all postions are pretty stacked in the NBA except for C.

29$JerZ
07-26-2009, 09:20 PM
Refs ruin the game of basketball. MJ did what he was capable of and got 6 championships for it, nothing wrong with that.

ink
07-26-2009, 09:22 PM
If so, you need to change the title of the thread to "Did MJ IMITATORS ruin the game?"


how do you change the title?

With your permission, I took the word "ruined" out of the title. I think that's distracting a lot of people who don't think the game is "ruined" at all.

I took aWiLL's idea and changed it to:

Do MJ imitators really understand what made MJ great?

Because I think that's the focus of the idea. I think the imitators have damaged the game because they didn't really understand, or didn't have the ability, to execute the things that made MJ great.

A few have, but many have failed, and in the meantime we're left with truly forgettable NBA moments -- the Kryptonite and Superman embarrassment comes to mind.

ink
07-26-2009, 09:25 PM
btw, if you asked Magic or Russell or Kareem or any of the other all time greats this question they probably wouldn't laugh at it. They might even agree.

Kyben36
07-26-2009, 09:25 PM
MJ made the NBA what it is today, without him, the NBA would probably be half as good as it is now, Wade, James, and a ton of other players got their hope up to play Basketball watching MJ.

Kyle N.
07-26-2009, 09:27 PM
The only thing ruining the game today is the refs. If the refs reffed like they should, the game would be a lot better.

asandhu23
07-26-2009, 09:31 PM
MJ made the NBA what it is today, without him, the NBA would probably be half as good as it is now, Wade, James, and a ton of other players got their hope up to play Basketball watching MJ.

i see and i agree. there were great players before, during and after jordan.

Cavs_Fan24
07-26-2009, 09:35 PM
Michael Jordan developed the game for future guards. Before him the NBA was based around big men and he changed that for the better by showing the world that guards can be more dominant and important to a team than a big man in the middle.

Konstruktive
07-26-2009, 10:56 PM
Who did? :confused:

hmmm

i thought the title was did MJ ruin the game... it was probably changed

but if your saying MJ ruined the game... That, is a waste of a thread.

JayW_1023
07-27-2009, 07:28 AM
Alot these stars think they can be like Mike by doing the flashy things...but MJ also mastered the fundamentals of the game. That's something alot of guards today lack.

S-Dot
07-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Yeah, they understand. That's why they try to imitate it. Are they successful...no.

SteveNash
07-27-2009, 07:56 AM
AI ruined the game.

Bird/Magic/Jordan/ESPN gave AI a big enough stage to let him ruin the game.

azkarraga
07-27-2009, 07:57 AM
jordan ruined basketball? as if my mom telling me i'm ruinning my life? lol

i know you dont mean it like that, but still, as an idea, it's creepy.

MPScribbles
07-27-2009, 09:06 AM
Michael Jordan didn't ruin basketball. Anybody who watched him knew that he was a tenacious competitor, played hard defense, and did what it took to win the game. Anybody who watched his Nike ads knew that he could do some fancy ****.

The problems with the game come from people trying to imitate the fancy ****, rather than the competitiveness, will to win and defensive intensity.

So if people want to point fingers, they should be pointing at either Nike, or the people who put all their attention on the ads.

Great point. If players had taken from him the substance instead of the style the game today would be so far ahead of where it is currently. If all these great SG's/SF's were lockdown defenders like Mike was then maybe perimeter scoring may not be so out of control.

I know the no hand-checking has something to do with it but seriously people don't put as much effort into their defense as they did then.

DaBUU
07-27-2009, 02:39 PM
I was boiling mad...then the title was changed. I'm better now, but not all the way.....

USM2012
07-27-2009, 03:00 PM
Did he ruin the game...Hell no, he helped the game probably more then anyone else in the history of basketball. If anyone ruined the game it is US, the fans. We as fans like the offense, the high scoring games, that's why gm's get players like that, if we dont go to games and watch the games they dont make money and it's all about money to them. If we liked how the "truth" game of basketball was played then that's exactly what the NBA would be instead of the talent show it is today. If every team in the league was like the spurs, the NBA wouldn't make anywhere near as much money as they do and whose faults is that? OURS because WE choose to watch the high scoring games instead of the defense and the basics of basketball. No one in particular has ruined the game and if they have then it is only because WE let them.

Bruno
07-27-2009, 08:04 PM
MJ played the roll of the hero better than any athlete ever. After a decade dominated by green/white, and purple/gold, Jordan represented the big guns of the 80's being helpless and defeated. This made every NBA fan outside of LA/Boston/Detroit fall in love with him (Until he beat their teams in the playoffs).

tland22
07-28-2009, 01:42 PM
the SG and SF positions are clearly the most stacked in the NBA. While the C and PGH positions are the hardest to find talent at traditionally. NO BRAINER.


And MJ was the best thing to ever happen to basketball.

and PS, I dont know of anyone who grows up playing saying to themselves " i wanna be like Kobe Bryant" ...he isnt on that level. MJ is that level.

theuuord
07-28-2009, 02:16 PM
the SG and SF positions are clearly the most stacked in the NBA. While the C and PGH positions are the hardest to find talent at traditionally. NO BRAINER.

C is true, but PG is becoming less and less so.



And MJ was the best thing to ever happen to basketball.

and PS, I dont know of anyone who grows up playing saying to themselves " i wanna be like Kobe Bryant" ...he isnt on that level. MJ is that level.

While I agree that Kobe isn't on MJ's level, there are a LOT of people these days who want to be like Kobe. I'd say there are more kids who imitate his game than LeBron's, even though LeBron is the superior player.