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Frank Costanza
07-24-2009, 01:26 PM
aside from the Guru himself coach phil jackson, who would you say is the next best tactician/x's and o's/ tough minded best strategy coach in the nba????

The Anomoly
07-24-2009, 01:33 PM
Hands down Pops. No question.

GSW fan
07-24-2009, 01:38 PM
IMO

Pop>Phil

Im ready for the bashing of the laker fans

AntiG
07-24-2009, 01:56 PM
Popovich and George Karl are both better coaches than Phil. Phil is a very good coach who has lucked into legendary teams.

ink
07-24-2009, 01:58 PM
Let's not derail the thread. It's not about Phil Jackson. Frank even made it clear that he wanted to know who the best coaches were OTHER THAN Phil Jackson.

Could we please talk about THAT thread topic??

Thanks!

Gibby23
07-24-2009, 01:59 PM
Popovich and George Karl are both better coaches than Phil. Phil is a very good coach who has lucked into legendary teams.

I could agree on Pops, but Karl is not a better coach than Phil. I think Adelman is a better coach than Phil also.

still1ballin
07-24-2009, 02:04 PM
People do not know how to read.

Anyway, my pick would be Pop

king4day
07-24-2009, 02:08 PM
Some of those names don't belong in there.
Greg Pops and Sloan are the only ones I can really consider as up there.

Tom81
07-24-2009, 02:11 PM
Greg Popovich

Statik1
07-24-2009, 02:12 PM
Pop

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 02:20 PM
popovich will do. but the Ten Master is the greatest of all time.

static_inferno
07-24-2009, 02:20 PM
George Karl and Adelman are NOT better than Phil. in terms of top coaches Phil and Pop are the highest tier.

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 02:20 PM
Popovich and George Karl are both better coaches than Phil. Phil is a very good coach who has lucked into legendary teams.

And Tim Duncan is chopped liver? you need to watch more basketball.

kingkobe
07-24-2009, 02:21 PM
Why is Mike brown even up there?

DrDEADalready
07-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Pop and Sloan > Phil

lakers4sho
07-24-2009, 02:27 PM
Let's not derail the thread. It's not about Phil Jackson. Frank even made it clear that he wanted to know who the best coaches were OTHER THAN Phil Jackson.

Could we please talk about THAT thread topic??

Thanks!

thank you :cool:

mitch91
07-24-2009, 02:34 PM
pops easy

though its a shame the sloan doesnt get the credit he deserves....the guys never won coy

Hustla23
07-24-2009, 02:35 PM
The Jazz are the best team in the NBA in terms of play execution. They run a play almost every time down the court.

I'm going to say Sloan.

ink
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
thank you :cool:

I'm also someone who thinks PJ deserves all the credit he gets. :D

But since the thread is about OTHER COACHES, Popovich, Adelman, Sloan, and Karl are the clear choices to fill out the top 5.

Lawrence Frank for most under-rated.

Joshtd1
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
Pop and Sloan.

ggg
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
I dont believe in sloan no more but Pop, Doc, are right up there when it comes to the philosophy of the team. I think Karl and Sloan are getting outsmarted by phil in every series they played. I picked pop and doc coz they are very composed. You can include adelman too. They shout but theyr not losing hair like george karl or getting T'd up by like sloan. they know what they doin on pressure situations.

NYtilIdie
07-24-2009, 02:48 PM
Pop without question

lakers4sho
07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
I dont believe in sloan no more but Pop, Doc, are right up there when it comes to the philosophy of the team. I think Karl and Sloan are getting outsmarted by phil in every series they played. I picked pop and doc coz they are very composed. You can include adelman too. They shout but theyr not losing hair like george karl or getting T'd up by like sloan. they know what they doin on pressure situations.

Doc Rivers? We're talking about tacticians - X's and O's here - and clearly that's not Doc's forte.

ctitus45
07-24-2009, 02:53 PM
Pop, Sloan...if it weren't for Phil, we would be giving Adelman more praise.

In short term i think you have to at least look at Avery Johnson and Stan Van Gundy. They have had great success for the short tenure. im not sayin they should be on the list..but by their career. very successful.

it goes...Phil and then Pop...no one else is near that level of coaching. Larry Brown maybe? he does wear out his welcome quickly, but he does get the best out of his players.

ko8e24
07-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Gregg Popovich (2 g's in his first name)

Kakaroach
07-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Jerry Sloan and Pop.

ko8e24
07-24-2009, 03:07 PM
Pop, Sloan...if it weren't for Phil, we would be giving Adelman more praise.

In short term i think you have to at least look at Avery Johnson and Stan Van Gundy. They have had great success for the short tenure. im not sayin they should be on the list..but by their career. very successful.

it goes...Phil and then Pop...no one else is near that level of coaching. Larry Brown maybe? he does wear out his welcome quickly, but he does get the best out of his players.



What an understatment...... Remember 2004 Champion Detroit Pistons??





And Sloan and Adelman would be great, but they've had the majority of their coaching career getting their arse kicked on numerous occassions the last 20 yrs by Action Jackson!

RaiderLakersA's
07-24-2009, 03:08 PM
Easy. Pops.

kobes2good
07-24-2009, 03:20 PM
PHIL JACKSON IS THE GREATEST COACH OF ALL TIME! 10 CHAMPIONSHIPS!! YOU CAN SAY A COACH IS BETTER THEN HIM WHEN ONE OF THOSE COACHEs EVEN WIN 9!

D-Will4Prez
07-24-2009, 03:24 PM
The Jazz are the best team in the NBA in terms of play execution. They run a play almost every time down the court.

I'm going to say Sloan.
x2

Sloan
Pops
Phil
L. Brown

Phil Jackson is a good coach but when it comes down to MJ/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq I'm sure even a mediocre coach (not saying Phil is mediocre) could take them to championships. Phil's championships came from his team having the best players in the game. Call me ignorant or whatever, just stating an observation. Just because you coach the best players in the game, doesn't make you the best coach.

dre1990
07-24-2009, 03:29 PM
Greg Popovich

_Supreme_
07-24-2009, 03:38 PM
Phil Jackson isn't the greatest coach to begin with.

These Laker fans are getting so damn annoying :yawn:

_Supreme_
07-24-2009, 03:39 PM
Phil Jackson is a good coach but when it comes down to MJ/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq I'm sure even a mediocre coach (not saying Phil is mediocre) could take them to championships. Phil's championships came from his team having the best players in the game. Call me ignorant or whatever, just stating an observation. Just because you coach the best players in the game, doesn't make you the best coach.

Exactly

Chronz
07-24-2009, 03:42 PM
Dunleavy is obsessed with X's and O's, Id rather have a coach who lets his players play to be honest.

Frank Costanza
07-24-2009, 03:43 PM
Why is Mike brown even up there?

cause when you only make it about 3 or 4 guys, the whole thread is ppl saying "why isnt so-and so up there" i tried to go with the coaches that have had the most sucess recently and earlier in their careers


I voted popvich but a close second is sloan

i do really like rich adelman as a coach too

rjvacad
07-24-2009, 03:44 PM
Popovich and George Karl are both better coaches than Phil. Phil is a very good coach who has lucked into legendary teams.

Just like Red, lucked into having a legendary boston team?

L@ker4Life
07-24-2009, 03:48 PM
Pop and Sloan > Phil

Sloan, really?

I mean he's a good coach, but better than Phil? Madness i say...just str8 madness....

Pops is VERY good and I respect him, but it seems like Phil has had his number for the most part.

BALLER71
07-24-2009, 03:51 PM
Pat Riley, Sloan and Pop.

championships
07-24-2009, 03:54 PM
I have to say Pop cause Phil has just smoked the other coaches. Him and Pop have had pretty good battles though.

AntiG
07-24-2009, 03:55 PM
Just like Red, lucked into having a legendary boston team?

red built his team from scratch actually.

S-Dot
07-24-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm not a Lakers but if Phil was in the poll, I think he would win so the thread title is appropriate. Pop is #2.

championships
07-24-2009, 03:58 PM
red built his team from scratch actually.

Yeah He taught Russel eveything he knows right? He got passed, get over it.

Raidaz4Life
07-24-2009, 03:59 PM
Sloan

S-Dot
07-24-2009, 04:01 PM
Yeah He taught Russel eveything he knows right? He got passed, get over it.

And Tim Duncan isn't the most difficult player to coach either. People forget that about Pop.

championships
07-24-2009, 04:01 PM
Pop in a landslide. So when Phil retires, watch out spur fans, were coming for your coach.

championships
07-24-2009, 04:04 PM
And Tim Duncan isn't the most difficult player to coach either. People forget that about Pop.

No argument with that. Great coaches just have great players.

S-Dot
07-24-2009, 04:06 PM
Pop in a landslide. So when Phil retires, watch out spur fans, were coming for your coach.

I could see the Lakers doing some b.s. like that...and succeeding. The lure of the Lakers

Kings Faithful
07-24-2009, 04:07 PM
Rick Adelman and Jerry Sloan are the two best coaches on that list... the true test of coaching greatness is looking at how well the team performed with the least amount of talent at their disposal... Don Nelson and D'antoni are two good mentions two. But seriously... where the hell is Kenny Natt?!?!?!?

P.I.
07-24-2009, 04:10 PM
1. Greg Pop
2. Sloan
3. Doc
4. Karl
5. S. VanGundy

Notables: Dunlevy & Lawrance Frank they know how to coach a young team

No hate for Mike Brown I know he won Coach of the year, but lets face it he sucks and does not deserve it. He never has any plays, he did not adjust in the playoffs againts Magics. He lets Lebron coach for him.

I never agreed with the COY awards ever since guys like Sam Mitchell and now Mike Brown winning it, and yet Jerry Slone has not one once.

asmarks18
07-24-2009, 04:12 PM
Pop no question. Rick Carlisle deserves to be on that list. He isn't the best coach in the league but hes a better coach than half the people on that list. Don Nelson?, Mike Dunleavy?, Lawrence Frank? Are you kidding?

ko8e24
07-24-2009, 04:15 PM
Dunleavy is obsessed with X's and O's, Id rather have a coach who lets his players play to be honest.

Exactly

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 04:15 PM
putting aside the fact that I could make an argument that Phil isn't the best coach x's and o's wise, it is easily Pops, then Sloan.

S-Dot
07-24-2009, 04:20 PM
Pop no question. Rick Carlisle deserves to be on that list. He isn't the best coach in the league but hes a better coach than half the people on that list. Don Nelson?, Mike Dunleavy?, Lawrence Frank? Are you kidding?

:clap: Remember he had great success in Detroit and coached Indiana to the best record in the league. He is doing well in Dallas as well. He also uses his bench well.

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 04:34 PM
The Jazz are the best team in the NBA in terms of play execution. They run a play almost every time down the court.

I'm going to say Sloan.

but his team sucks at defense. sloan is avg. at best. two hall of famers and they got to finals only twice and didn't win is pathetic. Phil would've gotten a couple championships with that team.

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 04:37 PM
putting aside the fact that I could make an argument that Phil isn't the best coach x's and o's wise, it is easily Pops, then Sloan.

phil teaches the triangle offense, a vastly complicated offensive style. he has tex to help but phil knows it like the back of his hand. Popovich teaches the most basic offense: tim duncan post up and pick and rolls. not exactly rocket science.

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 04:39 PM
watch phil's triangle lecture. this is WAY beyond what popovich teaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckoM3Kb593o&feature=related

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 04:43 PM
I have to say Pop cause Phil has just smoked the other coaches. Him and Pop have had pretty good battles though.

The Ten Master has "smoked" Pop too. He has beaten the Spurs 4 times in the playoffs. Including that embarrassing sweet in 2001 West. Con. Finals. Pop has beaten the Lakers only once. PJ>Pop

Lakersfan2483
07-24-2009, 04:47 PM
aside from the Guru himself coach phil jackson, who would you say is the next best tactician/x's and o's/ tough minded best strategy coach in the nba????

Gregg Popovich followed by Jerry Sloan, Rick Adelman, and Larry Brown. Nate Mcmillan and B. Scott are good coaches as well.

AntiG
07-24-2009, 04:48 PM
Yeah He taught Russel eveything he knows right? He got passed, get over it.

Red built his roster from scratch and coached them into great players, Phil jumped onto elite rosters that were built by top-flight GMs. Not comparable at all.

I don't really care that Phil has more championships, Red was still a better coach by far.

ULT WARRIOR408
07-24-2009, 05:00 PM
aside from the Guru himself coach phil jackson, who would you say is the next best tactician/x's and o's/ tough minded best strategy coach in the nba????


Ok he might not be better than POPOVICH but he's great at exploiting match ups just as long as he's got the players he wants it works for the most part.

_KB24_
07-24-2009, 05:05 PM
Pops is the only one on the list who can be compared to Phil. Pops is a Top 5 COAT IMO. Aldeman use to have nightmares when he played Phil's Lakers.

fishfan79
07-24-2009, 06:11 PM
I would go with pop where Riley would be my pick but he is busy playing puppetmaster

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 06:22 PM
phil teaches the triangle offense, a vastly complicated offensive style. he has tex to help but phil knows it like the back of his hand. Popovich teaches the most basic offense: tim duncan post up and pick and rolls. not exactly rocket science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense
here ya go. Do I actually need to educate you on you're own team??

And Phil has the best overall package to offer. He has the perfect balance, but as far as x's, and o's, Sloan, Pops, Flip Saunders, Carlisle, are all better. Adelman even.
Wasn't a criticism bro. But I would have been stupid to think Laker fans wouldn't see that.

luuuooooool9
07-24-2009, 06:23 PM
clearly pops

then id have to say rick adelman, he should especially of had 1 ring by now

oh yea, where the hell is pat riley in the poll

WoodbridgeSkins
07-24-2009, 06:27 PM
aside from the Guru himself coach phil jackson, who would you say is the next best tactician/x's and o's/ tough minded best strategy coach in the nba????

Shame on you for putting a Van Gundy on this poll!

ggg
07-24-2009, 06:31 PM
Doc Rivers? We're talking about tacticians - X's and O's here - and clearly that's not Doc's forte.

oh when it comes to X's and O's alone theres alot of great coaches. you can include, rick carlisle, flip saunders, l brown, sloan, D antoni any day. but when it comes to overall coaching right now i think Doc is one of the head coaches you wanna have on a championship team.

Kabowdos
07-24-2009, 06:41 PM
Phil Jackson is the best coach of all time. There is no question about it.

He coached Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Shaq. Three of the best players of all time. You can't tell me their success has nothing to do with their coach. Phil is the best. 10 rings. He is the best.

UofA
07-24-2009, 06:48 PM
Pops

3RDASYSTEM
07-24-2009, 06:48 PM
L.BROWN and POPOVICH with SLOAN right there wit P.RILEY

_KB24_
07-24-2009, 06:54 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense
here ya go. Do I actually need to educate you on you're own team??

And Phil has the best overall package to offer. He has the perfect balance, but as far as x's, and o's, Sloan, Pops, Flip Saunders, Carlisle, are all better. Adelman even.
Wasn't a criticism bro. But I would have been stupid to think Laker fans wouldn't see that.

Do you have something against the Lakers? Saunders, Carlisle, Aldelman!????? Your just so full of crap. Your the same d-bag who said Kobe would never win being the top guy right?:rolleyes:

ko8e24
07-24-2009, 06:56 PM
Pops is the only one on the list who can be compared to Phil. Pops is a Top 5 COAT IMO. Aldeman use to have nightmares when he played Phil's Lakers.

He's #3 on my list, just ahead of Riles, and just behind Phil and Red

ko8e24
07-24-2009, 06:57 PM
and y are dunleavy and doc put as options?

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 07:01 PM
Do you have something against the Lakers? Saunders, Carlisle, Aldelman!????? Your just so full of crap. Your the same d-bag who said Kobe would never win being the top guy right?:rolleyes:

I stated an opinion 10 months ago that I didn't think Kobe would win as the leader, yes. I also didn't know the only real contenders would go down with injuries, but it still doesn't mean the Lakers didn't earn it. I think every single poster here has said something that ended up not being true. Get over it.
And read my post. I said, as far as x's, and o's, which are structured plays, sets, etc, there are many better than Phil. The triangle is a living, breathing machine. It is a flow, much like the motion offense. Once Tex perfected it, and Phil adopted it, they simply needed to find players to fit it.
And I also said, Phil is the best overall coach, no doubt. He blends all the important things you need to be a great coach. But the thread was, x's, and o's. Phil is not one of the best. Go look at Flip Saunders playbook
And thanks for the d-bag comment. That was sweet of you

BUCSFORLIFE123
07-24-2009, 07:08 PM
x2

Sloan
Pops
Phil
L. Brown

Phil Jackson is a good coach but when it comes down to MJ/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq I'm sure even a mediocre coach (not saying Phil is mediocre) could take them to championships. Phil's championships came from his team having the best players in the game. Call me ignorant or whatever, just stating an observation. Just because you coach the best players in the game, doesn't make you the best coach.

exactly. and pop does have great control over his team i nthat the players dont have off court issues and knows how to react to certain situations fairly well . phil tends to jus let the players do their own thing, and hvaing kobe, its not very hard

BUCSFORLIFE123
07-24-2009, 07:09 PM
I stated an opinion 10 months ago that I didn't think Kobe would win as the leader, yes. I also didn't know the only real contenders would go down with injuries, but it still doesn't mean the Lakers didn't earn it. I think every single poster here has said something that ended up not being true. Get over it.
And read my post. I said, as far as x's, and o's, which are structured plays, sets, etc, there are many better than Phil. The triangle is a living, breathing machine. It is a flow, much like the motion offense. Once Tex perfected it, and Phil adopted it, they simply needed to find players to fit it.
And I also said, Phil is the best overall coach, no doubt. He blends all the important things you need to be a great coach. But the thread was, x's, and o's. Phil is not one of the best. Go look at Flip Saunders playbook
And thanks for the d-bag comment. That was sweet of you

flip saunders does have great plays tho igotta agree wit you

Frezhnitz
07-24-2009, 07:18 PM
IMO

Pop>Phil

Im ready for the bashing of the laker fans

Pop? lol Too much crack?

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 07:18 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense
here ya go. Do I actually need to educate you on you're own team??

And Phil has the best overall package to offer. He has the perfect balance, but as far as x's, and o's, Sloan, Pops, Flip Saunders, Carlisle, are all better. Adelman even.
Wasn't a criticism bro. But I would have been stupid to think Laker fans wouldn't see that.

HUH? what exactly you trying to prove? why the triangle wikipedia link? c'mon, be real buddy, you're jealous that PJ has ten titles and that's why youre hating. you also believe Jax is a conceited ahole and doesn't deserve his accomplishments. it's quite obvious. all those coaches that you mentioned don't have the skill to teach the very complicated triangle offense. Even Popovich said the triangle offense is a real offense that's too complicated for him. i'm not hating on those other coaches. they great, but PJ is OBVIOUSLY greater than them put together. stop hating.

BUCSFORLIFE123
07-24-2009, 07:21 PM
HUH? what exactly you trying to prove? why the triangle wikipedia link? c'mon, be real buddy, you're jealous that PJ has ten titles and that's why youre hating. you also believe Jax is a conceited ahole and doesn't deserve his accomplishments. it's quite obvious. all those coaches that you mentioned don't have the skill to teach the very complicated triangle offense. Even Popovich said the triangle offense is a real offense that's too complicated for him. i'm not hating on those other coaches. they great, but PJ is OBVIOUSLY greater than them put together. stop hating.

take out what pj did for the bulls and u have the same result wit pop and phil, 4 rings in about same amount of years

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 07:23 PM
Red built his roster from scratch and coached them into great players, Phil jumped onto elite rosters that were built by top-flight GMs. Not comparable at all.

I don't really care that Phil has more championships, Red was still a better coach by far.


How many championships did Jordan win before Phil Jackson?
How many championships did Shaq and Kobe win before Phil Jackson?
How many champiohships did Kobe win before Jackson's return?

Phil has more championships, more playoff wins, regular season win and finals appearances than Red.

Phil is the greatest. period. cut and dry. end of story. bottom line. case closed. thank you.

Frezhnitz
07-24-2009, 07:24 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_offense
here ya go. Do I actually need to educate you on you're own team??

And Phil has the best overall package to offer. He has the perfect balance, but as far as x's, and o's, Sloan, Pops, Flip Saunders, Carlisle, are all better. Adelman even.
Wasn't a criticism bro. But I would have been stupid to think Laker fans wouldn't see that.

Are you serious? lol What does 10 rings mean then.

Frezhnitz
07-24-2009, 07:26 PM
How many championships did Jordan win before Phil Jackson?
How many championships did Shaq and Kobe win before Phil Jackson?
How many champiohships did Kobe win before Jackson's return?

Phil has more championships, more playoff wins, regular season win and finals appearances than Red.

Phil is the greatest. period. cut and dry. end of story. bottom line. case closed. thank you.

Its funny how people place other coaches ahead of Phil.

plpfctn
07-24-2009, 07:27 PM
take out what pj did for the bulls and u have the same result wit pop and phil, 4 rings in about same amount of years

Phil has 6 finals appearances to Pop's 4. Plus Phil's Lakers beat the Spurs 4 times in the playoffs (including an embarrassing 4 game sweep) to Pop's Spurs beating the Lakers only once. Stop hating ok?

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 08:10 PM
HUH? what exactly you trying to prove? why the triangle wikipedia link? c'mon, be real buddy, you're jealous that PJ has ten titles and that's why youre hating. you also believe Jax is a conceited ahole and doesn't deserve his accomplishments. it's quite obvious. all those coaches that you mentioned don't have the skill to teach the very complicated triangle offense. Even Popovich said the triangle offense is a real offense that's too complicated for him. i'm not hating on those other coaches. they great, but PJ is OBVIOUSLY greater than them put together. stop hating.

I am not trying to prove anything. I linked it, because, the triangle was not invented by Phil Jackson. And it wasn't even perfected by him. He had Tex working for him, who is the real mind behind it today.
How am I jealous?? I love Phil. I was a huge Bulls fan. I am not hating at all, I don't understand where you even get that from.
The thread's intent, was to see who had the best x's and o's gameplan, etc. Phil is the best combination of all the things you need to be a great coach today. It helps he has only coached teams with supreme talent, but that in itself is a testament of how good he is, since he can keep stars and personalities focused.
My POINT IS, if you are willing to actually read it, he is not an offensive genius. The Lakers, and the Bulls before them, ran an offense that runs itself once the players understand it. You simply need the right personel.
Sloan, Saunders, Carlisle, these coaches have more plays, sets, and matchup ideas than Phil.
I really don't understand why this is so hard to grasp. This is not a criticism of Phil. But again, a Lakers fan can't weed thru the 80% of my post that praises Phil. They can only see the 20% that doesn't. Whatever

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 08:12 PM
Phil has 6 finals appearances to Pop's 4. Plus Phil's Lakers beat the Spurs 4 times in the playoffs (including an embarrassing 4 game sweep) to Pop's Spurs beating the Lakers only once. Stop hating ok?

why is it, if someone doesn't bow down to the Lakers, they are hating? Quit being ridiculous. If ya really wanna get technical, Pops doesn't lose in the finals. I think that is just as good as getting there those extra times, and getting youre butt kicked both times.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 08:14 PM
Its funny how people place other coaches ahead of Phil.

many, including myself, are not putting other coaches ahead of Phil. We/I am simply saying, that the part of coaching that this thread is based on, is not really Phil's strongest area, and there are many better.

AntiG
07-24-2009, 08:16 PM
How many championships did Jordan win before Phil Jackson?
How many championships did Shaq and Kobe win before Phil Jackson?
How many champiohships did Kobe win before Jackson's return?

Phil has more championships, more playoff wins, regular season win and finals appearances than Red.

Phil is the greatest. period. cut and dry. end of story. bottom line. case closed. thank you.

No. Bring together an above average coach with an elite roster and you get a championship.

Look at Doc Rivers for example. Only a nutjob homer would say he's an elite coach. But he coached one of the greatest seasons in history.

Also, the only reason Jackson has more wins and finals appearances than Red is because Red retired halfway through the Celtics' run. He spent a large chunk of his career building the team.

Jackson was hired after Krause put that roster together. Jackson was also hired after West built the Lakers team from scratch and acquired Shaq.

So far the only championship that is CLEARLY a roster that Jackson made amazing instead of jumping aboard the bandwagon is this year's.

No one is saying he's not great - but he's not the greatest. Not even close.

Hawkeye15
07-24-2009, 08:24 PM
No. Bring together an above average coach with an elite roster and you get a championship.

Look at Doc Rivers for example. Only a nutjob homer would say he's an elite coach. But he coached one of the greatest seasons in history.

Also, the only reason Jackson has more wins and finals appearances than Red is because Red retired halfway through the Celtics' run. He spent a large chunk of his career building the team.

Jackson was hired after Krause put that roster together. Jackson was also hired after West built the Lakers team from scratch and acquired Shaq.

So far the only championship that is CLEARLY a roster that Jackson made amazing instead of jumping aboard the bandwagon is this year's.

No one is saying he's not great - but he's not the greatest. Not even close.

great post. While I disagree that Phil is not one of the greatest, everything else you said is right. BUTTTTTT, Phil was able to do that 10 times. Doc once. Not comparing the 2, but the reason I say Phil is a top coach ever, is because while on paper it looks easy to have a roster full of all stars and win, in reality, those are a lot of egos, and personalities, and pressures, to keep on the same page, and focused. Now, MJ was the main driver behind the Bull's runs, he kept most of them in check, but Phil gets a lot of credit for the Lakers rings, more so than he should get for the Bulls rings.

AntiG
07-24-2009, 11:13 PM
great post. While I disagree that Phil is not one of the greatest, everything else you said is right. BUTTTTTT, Phil was able to do that 10 times. Doc once. Not comparing the 2, but the reason I say Phil is a top coach ever, is because while on paper it looks easy to have a roster full of all stars and win, in reality, those are a lot of egos, and personalities, and pressures, to keep on the same page, and focused. Now, MJ was the main driver behind the Bull's runs, he kept most of them in check, but Phil gets a lot of credit for the Lakers rings, more so than he should get for the Bulls rings.

Absolutely. I never said Phil isn't one of the all-time best coaches... nor am I diminishing his contributions to his teams... but all-time best because he happened to luck out with the best talent anyone could ever ask for? That does not make you the best, and definitely not better than a coach that built a team from scratch that ended up winning a title 9 out of 11 years.

If Doc were to finish his career with 11 titles, unless he suddenly became an amazing coach, I'd still never rank him above Red, Reilly, Phil, Popovich or Karl (of the contemporaries). Doc is lucky to be in the right place at the right time - just like Phil. Phil is no Red. Red was the Bill Walsh of the NBA... the greatest coach and greatest GM in the history of the sport, at the same time.

mdabstar
07-24-2009, 11:33 PM
popovich because of the championships

OT Thriller
07-25-2009, 02:24 PM
Yes, Phil Jackson was given good teams but not great teams. He made them great. Look at the Bulls. Michael Jordan's early years before Jackson in the late 80's were some of his most productive and statistically best seasons. The best the Bulls did was get to the Conference Finals. Then Phil Jackson takes over, takes them to the conference finals in 1989-90 then wins the NBA Finals in his next season. If Jackson inherited such a "great team" with the Bulls why did they not make the Finals before his arrival?

With the Lakers, Kobe and Shaq couldn't make it past the conference finals and some seasons they couldnt even make it that far. Then Jackson takes over the Lakers and that year and defeats the Indiana Pacers to win the NBA Finals. THAT YEAR. After almost a century of failure for the Lakers (post showtime era) Phil Jackson elevates Kobe and Shaq the way no coach could do for around four seasons.

Yes, Phil Jackson coaches great players but they are great in large part because of Phil Jackson. Anyway star player can be talented but no every star player can win. Phil Jackson helped NBA stars win by elevating them to play their best. To say Phil Jackson isn't the greatest coach right now is laughable and just not correct. Its not even a matter of opinion. Phil Jackson is the best NBA coach right now. Period. If you dont think so, you dont know basketball.

Hawkeye15
07-25-2009, 02:29 PM
Yes, Phil Jackson was given good teams but not great teams. He made them great. Look at the Bulls. Michael Jordan's early years before Jackson in the late 80's were some of his most productive and statistically best seasons. The best the Bulls did was get to the Conference Finals. Then Phil Jackson takes over, takes them to the conference finals in 1989-90 then wins the NBA Finals in his next season. If Jackson inherited such a "great team" with the Bulls why did they not make the Finals before his arrival?

With the Lakers, Kobe and Shaq couldn't make it past the conference finals and some seasons they couldnt even make it that far. Then Jackson takes over the Lakers and that year and defeats the Indiana Pacers to win the NBA Finals. THAT YEAR. After almost a century of failure for the Lakers (post showtime era) Phil Jackson elevates Kobe and Shaq the way no coach could do for around four seasons.

Yes, Phil Jackson coaches great players but they are great in large part because of Phil Jackson. Anyway star player can be talented but no every star player can win. Phil Jackson helped NBA stars win by elevating them to play their best. To say Phil Jackson isn't the greatest coach right now is laughable and just not correct. Its not even a matter of opinion. Phil Jackson is the best NBA coach right now. Period. If you dont think so, you dont know basketball.


again, not to nitpick, but at least I, have said all along the Phil is the best coach in basketball. But the thread was about x's and o's, of which Phil is not the best.
And timing had to do with some of that. In Jordan's early career, he walked into Bird/Magic in their prime, then the Bad Boys came to power. Jordan needed to mature, and that roster needed to be filled out to work the triangle.
The Lakers, Shaq was coming into his prime, the MJ era had ended just previous, and The Admiral was retiring, so the Spurs dropped briefly.
Now, I will give Phil a ton of credit for what he brought. The ability to manage egos, and personalities. Also brought Tex along, haha.

THere is minimal to zero dispute that Phil Jackson is the best coach in the NBA, and one of the all time greats. But the fact is, he has never coached a team that didn't have HOF's on it. Never. THat helps a wee bit.

Indi23
07-25-2009, 02:53 PM
I could see the Lakers doing some b.s. like that...and succeeding. The lure of the Lakers

Omg that guy saying watch out to the spurs is an complete moron. Pops has already said hes gonna end his career with the spurs. He was almost considering retirement was'nt he (when they won their last champ)? No way he goes to the lakers. NO WAY.

Indi23
07-25-2009, 02:57 PM
again, not to nitpick, but at least I, have said all along the Phil is the best coach in basketball. But the thread was about x's and o's, of which Phil is not the best.
And timing had to do with some of that. In Jordan's early career, he walked into Bird/Magic in their prime, then the Bad Boys came to power. Jordan needed to mature, and that roster needed to be filled out to work the triangle.
The Lakers, Shaq was coming into his prime, the MJ era had ended just previous, and The Admiral was retiring, so the Spurs dropped briefly.
Now, I will give Phil a ton of credit for what he brought. The ability to manage egos, and personalities. Also brought Tex along, haha.

THere is minimal to zero dispute that Phil Jackson is the best coach in the NBA, and one of the all time greats. But the fact is, he has never coached a team that didn't have HOF's on it. Never. THat helps a wee bit.

Agreed/ No way is Phil lucky tho, why would he still be coaching if he was "lucky". And you guys are saying you dont need good players to win championships? look at the celtics, Ray Allen, Paul P, And Garnett. and Depth around them. Phil is that good, and the reason players still want him isnt because of luck.

ElMarroAfamado
07-25-2009, 04:09 PM
IMO

Pop>Phil

Im ready for the bashing of the laker fans

:rolleyes:

ElMarroAfamado
07-25-2009, 04:10 PM
i have always hated popovich by the way
how can people like him

Corey
07-25-2009, 04:16 PM
As a Celtic fan, I have no problem calling Phil Jackson the best current coach.

Aside from that, I'd put Pop at second with Jerry Sloan a close third. I don't care if the guy hasn't won a championship, he's a helluva coach.

J_M_B
07-25-2009, 04:20 PM
No doubt it is Greg Popovich, followed by Jerry Sloan, Larry Brown, George Karl.