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x_notorious
07-24-2009, 12:28 PM
The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.

In addition, sources said the Athletics will throw in $1.5 million to the Cardinals.

Holliday, 29, is eligible for free agency after this season, and has had a lackluster season overall with the Athletics, hitting .287 with 11 homers and 54 RBIs.

But he has hit well this month, batting .344 with a .421 on-base percentage, and one scout who has seen him play said Tuesday that Holliday is swinging the bat as well now as he has all year. The Cardinals have been searching for a way to upgrade their offense to build some lineup protection for first baseman Albert Pujols.

Earlier this season, St. Louis had indicated to other teams that it did not have a lot of money to spend, but it's possible that the Cardinals' front office could navigate that issue by getting approval from ownership, or by having Oakland kick in some money to offset the money still owed to Holliday, which is about $6 million.

Oakland acquired Holliday in a trade with Colorado last fall, in the hope that he would be the anchor to the Athletics' offense. But Holliday -- and the whole Oakland offense -- has struggled for much of this year, and rival general managers have wondered if the shift in baseball's economics might compel the Athletics to move Holliday.

Holliday is earning $13.5 million in salary this season, and in order for Oakland to recoup draft picks, it would have to offer him arbitration. Holliday could be in line for an award of $16 million, something that might be more difficult for the small-market Athletics to absorb. The Yankees, after all, declined to offer Bobby Abreu arbitration last fall because they feared that he might accept it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4353256

MvpMets00
07-24-2009, 12:31 PM
Beane swindles the Cards again.

Damn the guy is a amazing GM.

poodski
07-24-2009, 12:33 PM
Good short term trade for the Cards. Long term we will see, but short term very good.

29$JerZ
07-24-2009, 12:34 PM
Prospects, you never know how they will play at the MLB level.
So short term this is a fantastic move.

Wade_County
07-24-2009, 12:39 PM
what out in 2k9.....lol

posner08
07-24-2009, 12:42 PM
Despite giving up some good, young talent, think about Holliday batting in front of Pujols. Great 1-2 punch.

mattz1212
07-24-2009, 12:42 PM
That is a very steep price to pay for a half of a year rental, but no doubt the Cards have made themselves legitimate threats to win it all. Holliday's numbers should rebound, mix that in with the fact that more recently his numbers have been terrific. I'd call both teamers winners here, the Cards improved a weaker area in a big way and I think really boosted themselves towards the top of the NL, the A's got tremendous value for a half of a year rental.

jtrinaldi
07-24-2009, 12:46 PM
i hav eseen brett wallace play before and think he is amazing he will be a ton better than holliday.1 thing this better not make melvin get robbed for halladay

Wiz kids
07-24-2009, 12:47 PM
J/W are the prospects the cards gave up really good?

AirJordanXVIII
07-24-2009, 12:49 PM
Billy Beane is a genius.

Coachchaz
07-24-2009, 12:50 PM
Wallace is good, but he sucks defensively.

This is a nice move for St. Louis, but I still think Philly is better in the NL. Escpecially if they somehow land Halladay and Pedro pans out.

chicagocubsfan
07-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Man This is a good move for the cardinals. Wonder if they will sign him long term? Hope the Cubs make a counter-move.

whitesoxfan83
07-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Wallace is a great spec

Peterson has an OPS right below .800 so its not like hes another top spec or anything. Hes been OK. .800 might cut it in the majors but for the minors its just OK.

Mortenson is meh (4.30ERA in the minors)

The Cards appear to have given up a little too much but if Peterson and Mortenson suck (which is certainly possible) its really not a bad swap.

ascud2107
07-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Beane has gotten away with robbing the Cards once, and he may have done it again.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 12:56 PM
J/W are the prospects the cards gave up really good?

the best they had. Wallace was their top MIL hitter, and Mortensen was their top MiL pitcher.

quiksilver2491
07-24-2009, 12:57 PM
Beane manages to strike again, this guy is a genius. Giving up Greg Smith, Carlos Gonzalez and Huston Street for Matt Holliday and then spining him off to the Cardinals at the deadline to get Brett Wallace is a great deal.

Wallace is one of the best prospects in baseball......going off of what Beane has done with prospects acquired through trade in the past, he is going to turn Wallace into a superstar. Not a bad deal for the Cardinals either but I sure as hell wouldn't have given up a player with the potential of Brett Wallace.

fresh prince
07-24-2009, 12:58 PM
Beane swindles the Cards again.

Damn the guy is a amazing GM.

Is he really? Last time I checked the A's have sucked for the last few years and they are terrible this year!

How is he an amazing GM?

whitesoxfan83
07-24-2009, 12:58 PM
Just cause mortensen was their top SP spec doesnt mean he was good. He stats are very unimpressive. Not a lot of Ks, some control problems. 1.38WHIP in the minors with a 4.30ERA.

Wallace is really the only good thing they gave up.

Again people want to laud Beane as being something hes not. The deal is like any other deal, only time will tell the winner.

MaHaRaJaH
07-24-2009, 01:02 PM
Thank phukkin God I thought that said HALLADAY

hawks1723
07-24-2009, 01:02 PM
Yeah because all have Beane's deals in the past have won him so much....

fresh prince
07-24-2009, 01:05 PM
Beane manages to strike again, this guy is a genius. Giving up Greg Smith, Carlos Gonzalez and Huston Street for Matt Holliday and then spining him off to the Cardinals at the deadline to get Brett Wallace is a great deal.

Wallace is one of the best prospects in baseball......going off of what Beane has done with prospects acquired through trade in the past, he is going to turn Wallace into a superstar. Not a bad deal for the Cardinals either but I sure as hell wouldn't have given up a player with the potential of Brett Wallace.

:laugh::laugh:

Wow.. How does Beane get such a pass? Is winning baseball games not important anymore?

I'm curious to see if A's fans still think Beane is a "genius"?

CardsFaninVA
07-24-2009, 01:05 PM
I think its funny that people are saying that Beane swindled the Cardinals. The Cards gave up a third base prospect that plays horrible, let me repeat horrible defense. The other two prospects are not going to amount to much more then a 5th starter and a platoon outfielder. Holliday WILL get his swagger back and prove he can hit outside of Coors. Once he settles in, he will sign for less to stay in St. Louis. I say welcome Matt you will love being a Cardinal.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:05 PM
Man, some guys just dog Beane. You do know that the A's infield will be
Chris Carter, Adrian Cardenas, Brett Wallace and Jemile Weeks in a few years right? That is scary to the AL West and AL in general!

Method28
07-24-2009, 01:06 PM
You get both ends of the spectrum with Beane and Holliday

Everyone wants to kiss Beane's *** and call him a great GM, but fact is he hasn't won crap. He trades good players for players that are supposed to be good at a later date and time...

Everyone wants to trash Holliday because he's not the monster he is in Coors...yeah he's not...who is? But fact is he'll still hit around .290 with 25-30 HRs and drive in 100 and steal 25. Last time i checked...thats pretty good.

Good job Cards

jul_392
07-24-2009, 01:06 PM
Good Trade hopefully he will resign so Albert can have some power besides him

Method28
07-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Man, some guys just dog Beane. You do know that the A's infield will be
Chris Carter, Adrian Cardenas, Brett Wallace and Jemile Weeks in a few years right? That is scary to the AL West and AL in general!

i love the A's and everything but man...wake up!!! its always "in a few years" with this team...then if those players ever turn out ok Beane will ship them off for specs....he needs to go ruin someone elses team.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:09 PM
I think its funny that people are saying that Beane swindled the Cardinals. The Cards gave up a third base prospect that plays horrible, let me repeat horrible defense. The other two prospects are not going to amount to much more then a 5th starter and a platoon outfielder. Holliday WILL get his swagger back and prove he can hit outside of Coors. Once he settles in, he will sign for less to stay in St. Louis. I say welcome Matt you will love being a Cardinal.

?? Im a cards fan too, but looks like someones drinkin the red kool aid. Wallace had a .975 fielding pct. in AA. Thats not awful. He also only had 2 errors. If anything, he'll move to first.

fresh prince
07-24-2009, 01:10 PM
Man, some guys just dog Beane. You do know that the A's infield will be
Chris Carter, Adrian Cardenas, Brett Wallace and Jemile Weeks in a few years right? That is scary to the AL West and AL in general!

:ohno:

That's the new murderers row right there.......


Not!

Method28
07-24-2009, 01:10 PM
?? Im a cards fan too, but looks like someones drinkin the red kool aid. Wallace had a .975 fielding pct. in AA. Thats not awful. He also only had 2 errors. If anything, he'll move to first.

im by no means saying Wallace will suck...guy can rake...my only issue is why Beane gets a pass?

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:11 PM
i love the A's and everything but man...wake up!!! its always "in a few years" with this team...then if those players ever turn out ok Beane will ship them off for specs....he needs to go ruin someone elses team.

The A's were in the alcs in 2006. Hows it always rebuilding. Sure, we're rebuilding now, but it seems everyone forgets about that 2006 ALCS.

Saint Brian
07-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Good for Pujols. Do the Brewers step up efforts to get Halladay?

JOSKOMANG4
07-24-2009, 01:12 PM
For the Cardinals..

Another bat in the St. Louis Lineup. Holliday will fit well in the 4-5th hole for the red birds.

Starters:

C) Molina
1b) Pujols
2b) Skipp Shu
SS) Ryan/Lugo
3b) Derosa
LF) Holliday
CF) Rasmus/ Ankiel
RF) Ludwick


For the Athletics, they nab the Cardinals 3 of their top 20 prospects;

3b) Brett Wallace- ranked #1 of the St Louis Minor league prospects. Monster bat should be ready within a year. Glove at third should be adequate in the short run. * Eventual replacement for injured prone 3b) Eric Chavez

RHP) Clayton Mortensen- Gets grounders, could be an innings-eater.

OF) Shane Peterson, OF- High OBP college guy with gap power.

CQSox305
07-24-2009, 01:12 PM
Im just happy the Sox didnt get robbed by Billy Beane, I thought they might make a play for Holliday. Decent pick up if he can bat close to .300 with 10+ homers in the next two months.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:13 PM
:ohno:

That's the new murderers row right there.......


Not!
Just cause you disagree doesnt mean you have to be so freakin ignorant. I said that it would be a good infield. You almost cant deny that. It could turn out bad, but Im saying it looks bright, so you cant judge anything either

BornAYankee23
07-24-2009, 01:13 PM
I think its funny that people are saying that Beane swindled the Cardinals. The Cards gave up a third base prospect that plays horrible, let me repeat horrible defense. The other two prospects are not going to amount to much more then a 5th starter and a platoon outfielder. Holliday WILL get his swagger back and prove he can hit outside of Coors. Once he settles in, he will sign for less to stay in St. Louis. I say welcome Matt you will love being a Cardinal.

First, how can you say for certain that the other spects won't amount to much but guarantee that Holliday will get his swagger back?

And secondly, what in the hell makes you think he will sign for less to stay in STL???

hrubes20
07-24-2009, 01:14 PM
I think its funny that people are saying that Beane swindled the Cardinals. The Cards gave up a third base prospect that plays horrible, let me repeat horrible defense. The other two prospects are not going to amount to much more then a 5th starter and a platoon outfielder. Holliday WILL get his swagger back and prove he can hit outside of Coors. Once he settles in, he will sign for less to stay in St. Louis. I say welcome Matt you will love being a Cardinal.

I will give you two quick words that completely disprove this thought.

Scott. Boras.

nstachowski
07-24-2009, 01:15 PM
Despite giving up some good, young talent, think about Holliday batting in front of Pujols. Great 1-2 punch.

I bet holliday will be batting behind pujols to give him some protection so that other teams will actually pitch to him

bomber0104
07-24-2009, 01:15 PM
I would like to see what Beane does if has money to spend

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:15 PM
First, how can you say for certain that the other spects won't amount to much but guarantee that Holliday will get his swagger back?

And secondly, what in the hell makes you think he will sign for less to stay in STL???

thank you! its easy to say the team with proven talent got the deal, but in situations like these, its hardly ever the case.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:16 PM
I will give you two quick words that completely disprove this thought.

Scott. Boras.

exactly! this doesnt say he wont resign, but he will prolly see whats available first.

Kinsm
07-24-2009, 01:17 PM
?? Im a cards fan too, but looks like someones drinkin the red kool aid. Wallace had a .975 fielding pct. in AA. Thats not awful. He also only had 2 errors. If anything, he'll move to first.

You need to check your homework, he has 10 errors in 62 games at third this year in AAA. IMO, he has always been destined to move to first or DH due to his size. He might survive at third for a few years though.

This is a good trade for STL.

BornAYankee23
07-24-2009, 01:18 PM
For him to resign, the Cardinals are going to have to spend the kind of money they have shown in the past that they do not want to spend.

And if they resign him they are going to have to give Pujols a huge new contract or risk pissing off the wrong guy.

BornAYankee23
07-24-2009, 01:19 PM
For him to resign, the Cardinals are going to have to spend the kind of money they have shown in the past that they do not want to spend.

And if they resign him they are going to have to give Pujols a huge new contract or risk pissing off the wrong guy.

BALLER71
07-24-2009, 01:20 PM
I'm going to read "Moneyball"
It's about Beane and his unique way of building a baseball team. A's fans, you guys should check it out.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:21 PM
You need to check your homework, he has 10 errors in 62 games at third this year in AAA. IMO, he has always been destined to move to first or DH due to his size. He might survive at third for a few years though.

This is a good trade for STL.

Yeah, i brought up his AA stats. I even said it in my post. Yeah, he can rake, but his fielding is a problem. People act like hes chuck knoblauch or something

JOSKOMANG4
07-24-2009, 01:23 PM
I actually wish the SF Giants made a push for Holliday.. i mean they would of had a nice trade chip in OF Fred Lewis and possibly 2 minor league prospects.

Projected Trade: Giants and Cardianls

Giants acquire OF Matt Holliday from A's in exchange for OF Fred Lewis, 3b) Conor Gillespie, and LHP Scott Barnes.

Damn you SF.. where would Sf go 2 next for bat help??????? Maybe Toronto?

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:24 PM
For him to resign, the Cardinals are going to have to spend the kind of money they have shown in the past that they do not want to spend.

And if they resign him they are going to have to give Pujols a huge new contract or risk pissing off the wrong guy.

Yeah, cant pay 2 huge paychecks if you have management that doesnt want to pay one!

poodski
07-24-2009, 01:25 PM
Wallace is a great spec

Peterson has an OPS right below .800 so its not like hes another top spec or anything. Hes been OK. .800 might cut it in the majors but for the minors its just OK.

Mortenson is meh (4.30ERA in the minors)

The Cards appear to have given up a little too much but if Peterson and Mortenson suck (which is certainly possible) its really not a bad swap.

Wallace doesnt have an OPS of 800 either.....


Man, some guys just dog Beane. You do know that the A's infield will be
Chris Carter, Adrian Cardenas, Brett Wallace and Jemile Weeks in a few years right? That is scary to the AL West and AL in general!

Eh Beane is good, but he isnt the best GM in baseball anymore. He changed the game, but honestly a lot of hits trades really havent panned out lately.

I doubt Wallace sticks at 3B, which drops his value some, and the A's did give up some pieces (Street, CarGo) to get Holliday.

Its a good deal no doubt, but its not like Beane is really that great anymore. he might not even be a top 5 GM anymore.

poodski
07-24-2009, 01:26 PM
I actually wish the SF Giants made a push for Holliday.. i mean they would of had a nice trade chip in OF Fred Lewis and possibly 2 minor league prospects.

Projected Trade: Giants and Cardianls

Giants acquire OF Matt Holliday from A's in exchange for OF Fred Lewis, 3b) Conor Gillespie, and LHP Scott Barnes.

Damn you SF.. where would Sf go 2 next for bat help??????? Maybe Toronto?

On what planet is Fred Lewis a good trade chip?

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:26 PM
I actually wish the SF Giants made a push for Holliday.. i mean they would of had a nice trade chip in OF Fred Lewis and possibly 2 minor league prospects.

Projected Trade: Giants and Cardianls

Giants acquire OF Matt Holliday from A's in exchange for OF Fred Lewis, 3b) Conor Gillespie, and LHP Scott Barnes.

Damn you SF.. where would Sf go 2 next for bat help??????? Maybe Toronto?

the reason that wouldnt work IMO is because the cards gave up their number one hitting and pitching prospect. Youre offering a bad Major leaguer in lewis and not even your best hitting OR pitching prospect.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:27 PM
On what planet is Fred Lewis a good trade chip?

lol

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:29 PM
Wallace doesnt have an OPS of 800 either.....



Eh Beane is good, but he isnt the best GM in baseball anymore. He changed the game, but honestly a lot of hits trades really havent panned out lately.

I doubt Wallace sticks at 3B, which drops his value some, and the A's did give up some pieces (Street, CarGo) to get Holliday.

Its a good deal no doubt, but its not like Beane is really that great anymore. he might not even be a top 5 GM anymore.
I still think hes top 5, so many people forget we were in the alcs in 2006. We are just rebuilding now. We are going SOMEWHERE!

JOSKOMANG4
07-24-2009, 01:33 PM
the reason that wouldnt work IMO is because the cards gave up their number one hitting and pitching prospect. Youre offering a bad Major leaguer in lewis and not even your best hitting OR

pitching prospect.

Sorry to tell you liver **** but Mortenson is not there #1 pitching prospect.

Motte was projected 3rd best prospect in the beginning of the season... the remaining pitchers.

Jess Todd, RHP, Grade B-: Strike-throwing inning-eater type if used as a starter, could be more dominant in shorter stretches if used in pen.

Mitchell Boggs, RHP, Grade C+: Live arm, still trying to put everything together, another guy who could be a decent starter or dominate more in the pen.

Jaime Garcia, LHP, Grade C+: Hard to rank due to Tommy John. A grade B+/B if healthy.

Adam Reifer, RHP, Grade C+: Excellent stuff, dominated the New York-Penn League, need to see at higher levels. Could hit the Top 5 next year if all goes well.

Lance Lynn, RHP, Grade C+: Polished college pitcher, could rank much higher once we see him against better hitters.

Mortenson(according to scouts inc.) is ranked 17th in their prospects.

DewsSox79
07-24-2009, 01:33 PM
Beane swindles the Cards again.

Damn the guy is a amazing GM.

nope. maybe if he got some rings out of it, but not amazing

poodski
07-24-2009, 01:34 PM
I still think hes top 5, so many people forget we were in the alcs in 2006. We are just rebuilding now. We are going SOMEWHERE!

Yeah but the thing with Beane is he was miles ahead of everyone. Now the rest of the league are right with him and his way of baseball costs more now.

Its not "moneyball" anymore. The Mariners are playing "moneyball" though.

DewsSox79
07-24-2009, 01:34 PM
the cards are making a good push.

poodski
07-24-2009, 01:36 PM
nope. maybe if he got some rings out of it, but not amazing

Thats the worst way to judge a GM.

They made it to the playoffs 5 times from 2000-2006. Beane was an excellent GM he just hasnt adapted since the rest of the league caught up. Making the playoffs 5 times out of 7 with the payroll they had is simply amazing.

matthewredskin3
07-24-2009, 01:36 PM
When I first saw this, I thought it was about Halladay, but somebody spelling his name wrong again...

WickedBadMan
07-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Yeah Beane is a great GM, but not sure why the outcome of this trade would lend any truth to that statement.

Frankly I think Huston Street is the man, and had 3 years left on his contract when they traded him + players to rent Holliday / flip him again.

Giants-49ers-Ws
07-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Im pissed the Giants didn't make a move for holliday..we could've put together a much more attractive trade package...i know wallace is ranked very highly..but have you seen his stats this year..not impressive!!!!

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:41 PM
Sorry to tell you liver **** but Mortenson is not there #1 pitching prospect.

Motte was projected 3rd best prospect in the beginning of the season... the remaining pitchers.

Jess Todd, RHP, Grade B-: Strike-throwing inning-eater type if used as a starter, could be more dominant in shorter stretches if used in pen.

Mitchell Boggs, RHP, Grade C+: Live arm, still trying to put everything together, another guy who could be a decent starter or dominate more in the pen.

Jaime Garcia, LHP, Grade C+: Hard to rank due to Tommy John. A grade B+/B if healthy.

Adam Reifer, RHP, Grade C+: Excellent stuff, dominated the New York-Penn League, need to see at higher levels. Could hit the Top 5 next year if all goes well.

Lance Lynn, RHP, Grade C+: Polished college pitcher, could rank much higher once we see him against better hitters.

Mortenson(according to scouts inc.) is ranked 17th in their prospects.

liver ****? Settle down, cowboy. I answered you in a calm and respectful manner just to have someone like you go out and check a cardinals blogsite and let a blogger tell you how theyre rated. Ive been to that site too. I didnt want to do your trade, because it was ****. Thanks for freaking out on me though.

iam brett favre
07-24-2009, 01:43 PM
Who did Beane give up to get Holliday? Thats being forgotten in this "genius" talk.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:44 PM
^Huston street and carlos gonzalez:D

Freel for prez
07-24-2009, 01:45 PM
This is heartbreaking as a Reds fan. Just please don't let the Cubs win...PLEASE. I cannot stress how badly you must not let the Cubs win. If they win...The Apocalypse is the next day. So do good! Derosa and Holliday are crazy additions.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:46 PM
at least some people can get off the cardinals Fo's back after this. Thats 3 trades that can really improve the team.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 01:52 PM
Any credibility you may have had is now officially gone.
OOH watch out you might be called a liver ****

Broad&Patterson
07-24-2009, 01:53 PM
Not sure the Cards can win the world series with their pitching but this probably makes them a lock for the playoffs and may give Puljos the triple crown


I'm always for trying to win now and you get a really good hitter for minor leaguers (you never know if they'll make it or not) so its a win for the Cards

Swift n Sil3nt
07-24-2009, 01:53 PM
I think what has gone unnoticed so far is the fact that Holliday had a horrendous first month of the season but he has been very good since then. That tells me that he has found his stride and will continue to produce. Even if he only hits .285 with a near .400obp its twice the production we are currently getting and it takes off a lot of pressure on Ryan Ludwick. DeRosa has swung the bat very well of late and Pineiro may actually get some run support.

1. 2B Skip Schumaker
2. CF Colby Rasmus
3. 1B Albert Pujols
4. LF Matt Holliday
5. RF Ryan Ludwick
6. 3B Mark Derosa
7. C Yadier Molina
8. P
9. SS Brendan Ryan

Starting Rotation:
1. Chris Carpenter
2. Adam Wainwright
3. Kyle Lohse
4. Joel Pineiro
5. Todd Wellemeyer

That is such an upgrade and we can finally put Thurston on the bench

Swift n Sil3nt
07-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Not sure the Cards can win the world series with their pitching but this probably makes them a lock for the playoffs and may give Puljos the triple crown


I'm always for trying to win now and you get a really good hitter for minor leaguers (you never know if they'll make it or not) so its a win for the Cards

What pitching are you complaining about?
Carpenter and Wainwright are excelling like we expected
Pineiro is pitching like the pitcher he has always been regarded to be, finally relying on his defense and not as a pure strikeout pitcher which he never was.
Lohse just came back from the DL, sporting a 4.5 ERA which is acceptable i guess.
Wellemeyer just sucks

mnrlgry
07-24-2009, 01:55 PM
the best they had. Wallace was their top MIL hitter, and Mortensen was their top MiL pitcher.

Mortenson is not even close to being our top pitching prospect

UNETOWNBAYAREA
07-24-2009, 01:56 PM
good pick up..

Kinsm
07-24-2009, 01:58 PM
This is where Baseball America had them:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2009/267431.html

Kinsm
07-24-2009, 02:00 PM
^Huston street and carlos gonzalez:D

and Greg Smith who is coming back from injury

Bosoxfan11
07-24-2009, 02:04 PM
Dude when Billy Beane calls, just rip the phone off the damn hook cuz your gonna get raped

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:07 PM
I didn't forget 2006...that's the year the Cardinals won the world series

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:08 PM
Dude when Billy Beane calls, just rip the phone off the damn hook cuz your gonna get raped

:rolleyes:
here we go again....what makes you say he rips people? what does he have to show for it? what star players do the A's have?

good spliff
07-24-2009, 02:19 PM
Highway robbery by Billy Beane.

whitekimbo
07-24-2009, 02:24 PM
1. 2B Skip Schumaker
2. CF Colby Rasmus
3. 1B Albert Pujols
4. LF Matt Holliday
5. RF Ryan Ludwick
6. 3B Mark Derosa
7. C Yadier Molina
8. P
9. SS Brendan Ryan

Starting Rotation:
1. Chris Carpenter
2. Adam Wainwright
3. Kyle Lohse
4. Joel Pineiro
5. Todd Wellemeyer


we also have khalil greene and troy glaus coming off the DL soon and ankiel coming off the bench now

Bosoxfan11
07-24-2009, 02:25 PM
:rolleyes:
here we go again....what makes you say he rips people? what does he have to show for it? what star players do the A's have?

Well last time he traded with the Cardinals he got Dan Haren and he just got 2 of the Cardinals top prospects for an overrated half season rental

nygiants242
07-24-2009, 02:26 PM
Wow.. Billy Beane is truly good at what he does. Great trade for the A's, he got amazing quality back from the Cards.

All in all, however, the Cards still made a good move. In a "win-now" trade, they added a legit offensive threat which should provide some support around Pujols, and now that Ludwick is producing I can really see this team coming together. Pressure from the Astros probably was a key reason for making a trade like this. Nice trade for both sides IMO.

abe_froman
07-24-2009, 02:35 PM
good move for both sides

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:39 PM
Well last time he traded with the Cardinals he got Dan Haren and he just got 2 of the Cardinals top prospects for an overrated half season rental

:clap: congrats Beane...you got two good years from a pitcher who you then flipped for some more "top specs" who haven't done anything...how hard is it for people to see that these trades dont amount to much of anything...he'll just trade the specs that turn out decent for some more specs lol

Broad&Patterson
07-24-2009, 02:40 PM
What pitching are you complaining about?
Carpenter and Wainwright are excelling like we expected
Pineiro is pitching like the pitcher he has always been regarded to be, finally relying on his defense and not as a pure strikeout pitcher which he never was.
Lohse just came back from the DL, sporting a 4.5 ERA which is acceptable i guess.
Wellemeyer just sucks


First of all I'm not complaining...I just said I don't think its good enough to win the world series. If the playoffs started today I'd take the the Dodger, Phillies, or Red Sox pitching over the Cardinals.

Dodgers pitching has been great, and the Phillies hitters and pitchers the past few years have been better the bigger the stage, and the Red Sox have a great playoff tested staff.

I didn't say it was bad I just said I don't think its as good enough. Heck if the Giants made the playoffs there one two is scary.

I do admire the way you stick up for your team and broke down each pitcher. Correct if I'm wrong (and I mean that sincerely) but I don't think your pitching staff is as good as it was a few years ago when you made the world series.

yuns554
07-24-2009, 02:40 PM
:rolleyes:
here we go again....what makes you say he rips people? what does he have to show for it? what star players do the A's have?

You keep mentioning the Athletics and how they dont win that much but you do realize they have one of the lowest payrolls in the mlb so they basically can only win by sucking some more and gettin draft picks or making trades and Billy Beane is pretty damn good at that. Beane finds a way to get young talent. idk here are some trades i remember

swisher for gio gonzales, de los santos, sweeney

mulder for haren, barton,and calero

he got jermaine dye for a bunch of crap

not saying hes an AMAZING gm but he gets talent for players who hav a deal left on their contract or something

Boston Faithful
07-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Decent trade. Holliday's stats are wayyy down from previous years, he's doing pretty good. I don't know if you should have traded three really good prospects for him though.

Young2Kinsler
07-24-2009, 02:43 PM
The Cardinals got totally raped again by the A's, lmao. 2 months of Holliday for a TOP prospect and 2 other solid ones, just terrible. Cards don't win the WS, this might be the worst trade they have made, well besides the Haren deal too.

faridk89
07-24-2009, 02:44 PM
scared the SHHHH out of me....thought the doc was gone :( wooooo lol thank baby jesus

zambo4president
07-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Man This is a good move for the cardinals. Wonder if they will sign him long term? Hope the Cubs make a counter-move.

We don`t even need to make a counter-move. We just have to play with our heads out of our *****.

Broad&Patterson
07-24-2009, 02:45 PM
You know reading the Billy Beane debate...his team doesn't win but he always has the great players to trade for prospect got me to realize something.

Billy Beane is a great GM, here is why...he has an eye for prospects and talent, he understands that players will flop, so getting 3 - 5 prospects in a trade give a decent shot at getting 1 or 2 major league players back.

These players start to develop but ownership can't afford or won't afford to pay these players so he has to trade them. So its not his fault the team can't win. Assuming I'm right about ownership being unable or unwilling to pay these guys..Beane might be able to create a great dynasty with the right ownership.

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:46 PM
You keep mentioning the Athletics and how they dont win that much but you do realize they have one of the lowest payrolls in the mlb so they basically can only win by sucking some more and gettin draft picks or making trades and Billy Beane is pretty damn good at that. Beane finds a way to get young talent. idk here are some trades i remember

swisher for gio gonzales, de los santos, sweeney

mulder for haren, barton,and calero

he got jermaine dye for a bunch of crap

not saying hes an AMAZING gm but he gets talent for players who hav a deal left on their contract or something

yes i do realize that. im not saying he sucks...im just tired that everytime Beane makes a trade its "OOOOHHHH what a rip job by Beane" :rolleyes:

By the reaction of everyone you would think he just got Babe Ruth for some cash or something....its a revolving door in Oakland.

mnrlgry
07-24-2009, 02:48 PM
First of all I'm complaining...I just said I don't think its good enough to win the world series. If the playoffs started today I'd take the the Dodger, Phillies, or Red Sox pitching over the Cardinals.

Dodgers pitching has been great, and the Phillies hitters and pitchers the past few years have been better the bigger the stage, and the Red Sox have a great playoff tested staff.

I didn't say it was bad I just said I don't think its as good enough. Heck if the Giants made the playoffs there one two is scary.

I do admire the way you stick up for your team and broke down each pitcher. Correct if I'm wrong (and I mean that sincerely) but I don't think your pitching staff is as good as it was a few years ago when you made the world series.

I'd say it's even better. We have two legit aces now in Carpenter and Wainwright. Wainwright was a rookie closing games in 2006. Carp and Wainwright both have a sub-3 ERA, they would be a deadly 1-2 in a playoff scenario. Lohse and Piniero are upgrades over Suppan and Jeff Weaver from 06. Wellemeyer blows but he wouldn't pitch in the playoffs.

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:50 PM
The Cardinals got totally raped again by the A's, lmao. 2 months of Holliday for a TOP prospect and 2 other solid ones, just terrible. Cards don't win the WS, this might be the worst trade they have made, well besides the Haren deal too.

Since when are Mortensen and Shane "solid"? Those guys suck. This is all about Wallace and if Holliday will re-sign with the Cards

Young2Kinsler
07-24-2009, 02:51 PM
I hope people realize my last post was a joke. I love when people over react to teams trading prospects who haven't played a day in the Majors. While Wallace is projected to be the stud, and the other guys are good as well, the Cardinals just got a TOP OF in the game. Holliday struggled some in Oakland, but really... look what he had to work with. No lineup worth a crap, no team worth a crap, and a bigger ballpark. Holliday is an all star, and I expect him to play like one in STL. We will really have to wait and see if he resigns to completely judge this deal, but for now at worst its a win-win

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:52 PM
I'd say it's even better. We have two legit aces now in Carpenter and Wainwright. Wainwright was a rookie closing games in 2006. Carp and Wainwright both have a sub-3 ERA, they would be a deadly 1-2 in a playoff scenario. Lohse and Piniero are upgrades over Suppan and Jeff Weaver from 06. Wellemeyer blows but he wouldn't pitch in the playoffs.

my thoughts exactly...too bad our offense can't sniff our 06' team :(

Young2Kinsler
07-24-2009, 02:53 PM
Since when are Mortensen and Shane "solid"? Those guys suck. This is all about Wallace and if Holliday will re-sign with the Cards

I just posed it was a joke, sorry took me a second. But yu are wrong on one front to say those guys suck. They are both solid prospects, but I agree, if Holliday resigns then it's a great deal for STL, if not, it could look pretty stupid in a couple years.

Method28
07-24-2009, 02:54 PM
I hope people realize my last post was a joke. I love when people over react to teams trading prospects who haven't played a day in the Majors. While Wallace is projected to be the stud, and the other guys are good as well, the Cardinals just got a TOP OF in the game. Holliday struggled some in Oakland, but really... look what he had to work with. No lineup worth a crap, no team worth a crap, and a bigger ballpark. Holliday is an all star, and I expect him to play like one in STL. We will really have to wait and see if he resigns to completely judge this deal, but for now at worst its a win-win

:D maybe its this coffee that has me wired but i didnt catch the joke at all lol yeah im really hoping Holliday can just hit .290 with a little bit of pop. Im very excited about the SBs he can potentially bring...we have NO speed on our team

IBleedPurple
07-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Good deal for the Cards. The NL isn't stacked even though LA looks tough. Could be a key part to a WS run.

And Beane is an idiot. This move was decent for him, but otherwise, he stinks

Seamhead
07-24-2009, 03:01 PM
The type of objective trade analysis needed...


The Not-So-Final Analysis: Matt Holliday's value to the Cardinals is worth a total of like $12 million when you figure his salary ($6M), wins added ($9M), draft pick compensation ($5M) and increased playoff odds ($4M). The A's get a top 50 hitter, a B grade pitcher and a 22-year old C grade hitter, which totals around $28 million. Oakland comes out way ahead here. For St. Louis, this is one heck of an expensive 2-month rental.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/24/961426/matt-holliday-to-st-louis

Again, if you call that being an idiot, then you must be nothing short of a ******.

Kinsm
07-24-2009, 03:02 PM
Everyone seems to forget there are compensation picks if he walks.
2 high draft picks are more than enough compensation for Mortensen and Shane, if he resigns who cares. It's all about whether or not 70 games of Holliday is worth Wallace, who I contend is being blocked by Pujols (he is just too big to play at third for long). I think both OAK and STL did well in this trade. OAK got a top tier prospect who is better than getting a draft pick because he's more proven and closer to the bigs than those compensation picks. STL just replaced Ankiels bat with Hollidays bat in a push for the division and playoff run.

WIN -WIN

good spliff
07-24-2009, 03:08 PM
And Beane is an idiot. This move was decent for him, but otherwise, he stinks

Please explain. With the money he has to work with, he is easily the most efficient GM. His farm system is stacked with talent and in no time, I see the A's as contenders again.

pf289
07-24-2009, 03:29 PM
So will he hit behind or in front of Pujols?

thawv
07-24-2009, 03:30 PM
He's out of Colorado. His numbers have been inflated his whole career. The ball carries 10' further for every 1000' above sea level. That was huge for his power numbers. Breaking balls don't break in the thin air. That's huge also. This is real close to the real Holliday. What you see is what you get. 286/11/54 is pretty average to below average for such a huge paycheck. I think they are going to be a little disappointed with the move.

Seamhead
07-24-2009, 03:36 PM
He has a .381 wOBA. That is 8th in the AL. He is not a product of anything. He's a great player; get over it.

CardzRule
07-24-2009, 04:06 PM
He's batting .310 since May 4. See above for the wOBA. Even for this season his OBP is still .378. 12 SB. .338 BA this month. (with .986 OPS). 23 doubles. And going to a more neutral park.
Personally, as a Cards fan, what I think of the deal:
Please God, let him sign an extension. That would make this the score of the century (for a couple years).

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 04:10 PM
see it sucks, cause im a fan of both teams, but i did think mort was a top pitcher, well espn said it anyways... :D but I really like what it does for both teams, especially if holliday re-signs. Then its really even IMO. I like what both teams got.

Hustla23
07-24-2009, 04:11 PM
I'm always in favor of trading 'spects for established, stud major leaguers.

But not when they're old and in the decline and when they're a half real rental....

I can't believe they traded their best 'spect for a half year rental.

Go after someone whose under control for a few years atleast.

Halladay
07-24-2009, 04:19 PM
I'm a little tired of hearing that Beane is a "genius". The man seems to trade as much talent as he brings in.

SFGIANTSFAN32
07-24-2009, 04:25 PM
Good short term trade for the Cards. Long term we will see, but short term very good.

Yes short term good for the Cards, long term has potential to be great for the A's with Wallace

SFGIANTSFAN32
07-24-2009, 04:26 PM
I'm a little tired of hearing that Beane is a "genius". The man seems to trade as much talent as he brings in.

Tell me about it, at least you dont live in the area and have to hear it from friends(fans) etc etc, but they have been quiet the last couple years since they have been terrible

Ramlaen
07-24-2009, 04:28 PM
He's batting .310 since May 4. See above for the wOBA. Even for this season his OBP is still .378. 12 SB. .338 BA this month. (with .986 OPS). 23 doubles. And going to a more neutral park.
Personally, as a Cards fan, what I think of the deal:
Please God, let him sign an extension. That would make this the score of the century (for a couple years).

Only way he signs an extension is if you over pay, welcome to Boras's world.

mgsports
07-24-2009, 04:55 PM
Holiday-LF
Ankiel-CF
Ludwick-RF
3B-Albert P.
SS-Ryan or Greene or Lugo
2B DeRosa
1B Glaus
C-Molina
Rasmus can be Traded for like Cliff Lee or maybe Haren or somebody else.

whitekimbo
07-24-2009, 05:16 PM
Holiday-LF
Ankiel-CF
Ludwick-RF
3B-Albert P.
SS-Ryan or Greene or Lugo
2B DeRosa
1B Glaus
C-Molina
Rasmus can be Traded for like Cliff Lee or maybe Haren or somebody else.

theres so many things wrong with this post its pathetic. please dont ever post again.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 05:21 PM
Holiday-LF
Ankiel-CF
Ludwick-RF
3B-Albert P.
SS-Ryan or Greene or Lugo
2B DeRosa
1B Glaus
C-Molina
Rasmus can be Traded for like Cliff Lee or maybe Haren or somebody else.
this is awful

mnrlgry
07-24-2009, 05:35 PM
Schumaker/Rasmus CF
DeRosa 2b
Pujols 1b
Holliday lf
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3b
Molina C
Pitcher
Ryan/Lugo SS


This is the lineup asuming everyone is healthy in August and on. Schumaker and Rasmus, both quality OFers (offensively and defensively) would switch the most. With Ankiel coming off the bench, that is a damn good lineup.

N.Z's #1 Dodger
07-24-2009, 05:39 PM
A lot of Billy Beane is awesome type posts. Awesome until Oakland fail again next year and he trades his recent pickups for more prospects. Let the circle of mediocrity continue!

mgsports
07-24-2009, 05:52 PM
Glaus isn't going to play 3B but was going to play LF.

redbird89
07-24-2009, 06:00 PM
I don't like this trade. Trading a top prospect for 2 months of Holliday is just stupid. The only way this trade is worthwhile is if we win the World Series, which still isn't that likely with the Phillies and Dodgers in it, in my opinion. If we don't win the World Series, then we still have to shell out big bucks to resign Holliday and we've lost Wallace anyway.

It's a risky trade, and I don't like it. I would have been fine signing Holliday in the offseason, but I didn't want him this way.

I know all other Cardinals fans love this trade, but I don't. If we win the World Series, it might be worth it. Anything short of that and it was a bad trade.

Phat Pat 94
07-24-2009, 06:08 PM
Schumaker/Rasmus CF
DeRosa 2b
Pujols 1b
Holliday lf
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3b
Molina C
Pitcher
Ryan/Lugo SS


This is the lineup asuming everyone is healthy in August and on. Schumaker and Rasmus, both quality OFers (offensively and defensively) would switch the most. With Ankiel coming off the bench, that is a damn good lineup.
I love this lineup almost as much as i like your sig :)

HuRRiCaNeS324
07-24-2009, 06:18 PM
This is gonna be a top three 3-4 combination in the mlb for sure. As for the athletics i guess its good because they weren't gonna keep him anyways so they got at least something. Brett wallace is a very good prospect, but we're gonna have to see how he does to consider it a good trade for the athletics.

redbird89
07-24-2009, 06:40 PM
Matt Holliday is going to play tonight.

poodski
07-24-2009, 06:54 PM
The type of objective trade analysis needed...



http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/24/961426/matt-holliday-to-st-louis

Again, if you call that being an idiot, then you must be nothing short of a ******.

This is one of the few parts I don't agree with I don't like putting a dollar value on prospects. Just too much can happen. I understand the reasoning but just don't agree with it.

Tragedy
07-24-2009, 08:49 PM
Silly for the Cardinals. Hope they enjoy the picks at the end of the year, because there is no hope of re-signing him.

Young2Kinsler
07-24-2009, 09:01 PM
Wallace is better than anything Oakland gave up for Holliday.

sportscrazy34
07-24-2009, 09:43 PM
LOL this was on fox


A scout's take on Wallace: "He can hit but he throws like a girl. They acquired a DH — I think he might be Jack Cust Jr. with fewer Ks. (Outfielder Shane) Peterson is the hidden gem!"


Here (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9848430/With-Holliday-in-tow,-Cards-will-try-to-deal-Glaus-)

So funny he throws like a girl.

northsider
07-24-2009, 09:50 PM
So far he has gone 3-4 RBI SB and run scored.

More-Than-Most
07-24-2009, 10:12 PM
So far he has gone 3-4 RBI SB and run scored.

2 really horrible defensive plays to. The cardinals had a lot of bloop hits... Just a pretty good night for them.

whitekimbo
07-24-2009, 10:44 PM
2 really horrible defensive plays to. The cardinals had a lot of bloop hits... Just a pretty good night for them.

1st off, i guarantee ur a phillies fan by the way u posted this.

2nd, he had 1 bad play not a "horrible defensive play" and thats when he jumped for the ball but he didnt jump high enough.

3rd, bloop hits are part of the game and we only had like 4 in that 1 inning. lugo has a HR, lugo has a triple, ankiel has a double, holliday has a double, ludwick ripped a single. u cant say we had a lot when we had a few consecutive ones...

4th, game over. 8-1 final. holliday went 4-5 with a SB, RBI, and a run scored.
cardinals also have 3 starting pitchers now with sub-e ERAs. WOOOOOOO!

More-Than-Most
07-24-2009, 10:52 PM
1st off, i guarantee ur a phillies fan by the way u posted this.

2nd, he had 1 bad play not a "horrible defensive play" and thats when he jumped for the ball but he didnt jump high enough.

3rd, bloop hits are part of the game and we only had like 4 in that 1 inning. lugo has a HR, lugo has a triple, ankiel has a double, holliday has a double, ludwick ripped a single. u cant say we had a lot when we had a few consecutive ones...

4th, game over. 8-1 final. holliday went 4-5 with a SB, RBI, and a run scored.
cardinals also have 3 starting pitchers now with sub-e ERAs. WOOOOOOO!

Lmao the play was horrible and ONLY having 4 in 1 inning Lmao. Dude really??????????? Anyway good game.

redbird89
07-24-2009, 10:53 PM
Great night for Holliday. I still think the trade is a bad idea in the long run. But it's nice to see Holliday hit.

The other newcomer, Lugo, homered tonight.

whitekimbo
07-24-2009, 11:12 PM
Lmao the play was horrible and ONLY having 4 in 1 inning Lmao. Dude really??????????? Anyway good game.

it was actually 3 but i put for on accident. thats y later in my post it didnt say 4. either way we had 15 hits so dont try and make it sound like thats y we won.

and yes, it was an excellent game. be ready for RD 2 at 3 tomorrow...

More-Than-Most
07-24-2009, 11:19 PM
it was actually 3 but i put for on accident. thats y later in my post it didnt say 4. either way we had 15 hits so dont try and make it sound like thats y we won.

and yes, it was an excellent game. be ready for RD 2 at 3 tomorrow...

I was praying for a win tonight because of the pitching match up tomorrow. It favors you guys by a lot.

Seamhead
07-25-2009, 12:44 AM
But...but...he's a product of Coors...

Havoc Wreaker
07-25-2009, 03:26 AM
LOL this was on fox


Here (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9848430/With-Holliday-in-tow,-Cards-will-try-to-deal-Glaus-)

So funny he throws like a girl.
:laugh:

Phelps89
07-25-2009, 03:31 AM
The Cardinals got totally raped again by the A's, lmao. 2 months of Holliday for a TOP prospect and 2 other solid ones, just terrible. Cards don't win the WS, this might be the worst trade they have made, well besides the Haren deal too.

The Cardinals didnt get raped.

Wallace was never going to play for the Cardinals. He is terrible at 3rd base. He has like 10 errors in under 60 games. Hes obviously never going to be able to play 1st for the Cardinals. So why not trade him?

Carlos Mortensen at best will be a 4th or 5th starter.

Shane Peterson has potential, but I just dont ever see him being anything more than a 4th or 5th outfielder.

At worst, the Cardinals get 3 months of Holliday, and IF he walks they also get 2 draft picks. At best they resign him and have an outfield of Holliday, Rasmus, and Ludwick for years to come.

redbird89
07-25-2009, 11:26 AM
Who is Carlos Mortensen?

Swift n Sil3nt
07-25-2009, 11:33 AM
There are a few things that i really like about this trade. It shows that we are in a win-now mode and hopefully it does wonders to keep Pujols and LaRussa around for the long haul. That was very important because the FO finally showed the we are willing to go out and get one of the best two players on the trading market. We also acquired a position of need in LF and we acquired a big bat in the lineup who will hit behind Pujols, no question about it. This move was to give Pujols protection and teams can still pitch around him, but for the first time in several years they may have to pay the price for walking him or being careful with him. Hollidays power numbers may be down, but even a consistent .300 hitter is a bigger threat than what we were currently producing.
The other thing that this trade does is move everyone down one spot in the lineup. Everyone knew Ludwick was a borderline cleanup hitter at best; he becomes a pretty scary number 5 hitter though with much less pressure on his shoulders now. Derosa was a good number 5 hitter, but he has always produced better in the 6 hole. And a .289 average coming from your catcher in the 7 hole now just looks that much better with the potential of a near .300 hitter in the nine hole to finish things off.

Lineup: AVG/OBP
1. 2B Skip Schumaker: .307/.366
2. CF Colby Rasmus .261/.311
3. 1B Albert Pujols .327/.450
4. LF Matt Holliday .293/.385
5. RF Ryan Ludwick .275/.341
6. 3B Mark Derosa .270/.342
7. C Yadier Molina .288/.358
8. P
9. SS Brendan Ryan .275/.312

And these numbers are over the course of the season where the lineup did not have the depth that it does now. With the relieved pressure i can see each of the numbers steadily inclining and it seems like Ludwick is starting to hit the ball again. The lineup looks legit, and Glaus may be able to come back and add a bat late in the game.

Rotation:
1. Chris Carpenter 2.26 ERA .96 WHIP
2. Adam Wainwright 2.95 ERA 1.30WHIP
3. Joel Piniero 2.95 ERA 1.08WHIP (3 Home Runs Allowed and only 13 Walks)
4. Kyle Lohse 4.21 ERA
5. Todd Wellemeyer 5.68 ERA 1.27WHIP

Bullpen:
CL Ryan Franklin 1.22 ERA .89WHIP

Cross out Wellemeyer and im willing to go to battle with anyone on this team

Cadarn
07-25-2009, 11:59 AM
Silly for the Cardinals. Hope they enjoy the picks at the end of the year, because there is no hope of re-signing him.

True. Chances of making the playoffs are still uncertain. Doesn't seem worth it.

AirJordanXVIII
07-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Overpaid for Holliday. Doesnt make the Cards a lock for the playoffs either, as I see the Cubs running away with the division soon.

Tragedy
07-25-2009, 01:29 PM
Overpaid for Holliday. Doesnt make the Cards a lock for the playoffs either, as I see the Cubs running away with the division soon.
Not with Lilly on the DL now. I don't see how the Cubs "run away" unless Aramis Ramirez gets super, super, super hot.

¿QUE?
07-25-2009, 01:35 PM
Nice move if he resigns.

Tragedy
07-25-2009, 01:37 PM
Nice move if he resigns.
Well, he won't, so lets not even bother discussing that.

Seamhead
07-25-2009, 02:05 PM
This is one of the few parts I don't agree with I don't like putting a dollar value on prospects. Just too much can happen. I understand the reasoning but just don't agree with it.

As opposed to what other way of analyzing prospect deals? That has nothing to do with the analysis, rather than the nature of prospects and what type of shot they have.


Nice move if he resigns.

Whether or not he signs with the Cards in the off-season is irrelevant to this deal. When the Cards trade for him, they trade for the 2 and half months of his service.

dcrover8
07-25-2009, 02:12 PM
1)The Cubs aren't going to run away with the division this year,GET REAL.
2)Clayton Mortensen isn't considered the #1 pitching prospect in the organization anymore.THAT'S A FLEGGIN' JOKE.
3)Brett Wallace is a potentially good ML hitter in what the Cardinal organization called him immediately after drafting him "A BAD BODY".
4)It's doubtful he's a major leage 3rd baseman---he's not built for the OF--there's no DH job in STL----and he wasn't replacing PUJOLS at 1st base--this year--next year--or in the next 5 years..
5)Matt Holliday will be a ST.Louis Cardinal in 2010 or the Birds will have 2 very high draft picks to replace him and Troy Glaus back at 3rd base thanks to the money being available that Holliday didn't eat. Either scenario works for me.

Brett Wallace has some flaws and question marks.He isn't Lou Gehrig but at least he looks like a out of playing condition and a bit more weirdly shaped version of a young Jim Thome.:p.The pre-major league hype some of these kids get nowadays is a joke. 95% never deliver anything close to expectations. That is just the cold hard fact and reality dose of today's game and stupid media driven frenzy of "the next hot thing",which in this case was the .290 hitting--pear shaped body of Brett Wallace.

Brett Wallace hasn't hit at AA and AAA like Babe Ruth this year--sad as that may be for some.
HE WAS VERY EXPENDABLE PEOPLE.

The hype over guys like this always makes me flashback to the great J.D.Drew that STL got by sheer intervention of God due to the Phillies snub----he was crowned the next Mickey Mantle before he ever walked on a ML diamond.

Alrighty then.

Me,I'll take Matt Holliday and the hope of a contract extension after Mr.Holliday plays like a Cardinal for awhile.

dcrover8
07-25-2009, 02:25 PM
Well, he won't, so lets not even bother discussing that.Laast time I checked the Cardinals weren't seriously in the running for DeRosa or Holliday and Chris Duncan was a Cardinal for life.

Alot of things changed quickly.Maybe the boy sticks around a awhile.

Trldar
07-25-2009, 03:00 PM
Holliday had a bad hitters park and new Sp's to deal with hes going to hit NL Sp's better and in more of a hitters park a good deal for STL despite the price


Holliday Fa time I would like to sign him for LF as I think he hits 315 20-100 most likely in most parks not worth 20 mill a yr like BORAT will want but hes a solid ball player and steals 15-20 bags a year to so I woul like to sign him

Bay hits 25 hrs is hitting 250 right now so I would rather have Holliday than Bay neither have been outstanding by any means when Damon is hitting 280 with about 14 hrs it truly shows there are very few MANNY RAMIREZ's the pinch hit slam was just sick

saucy1
07-25-2009, 03:17 PM
beane is a genius id like 2 punch that angels fan in the nose.If beane had close 2 a payroll like the angels yall wouldnt have a chance ,unforunately this is the way he has 2 do business and there will be years like this

YANKSJETSKNICKS
07-25-2009, 10:43 PM
does anybody think that he will resign wit the cards

Ballah0liC1
07-26-2009, 01:00 PM
does anybody realize hollidays stats were bad cause the team hes on, ok his homers are down so are david wrights but i dont see him getting blasted,oh yeah thats right because hes a met and cardinals get no respect

Tragedy
07-26-2009, 01:04 PM
Laast time I checked the Cardinals weren't seriously in the running for DeRosa or Holliday and Chris Duncan was a Cardinal for life.

Alot of things changed quickly.Maybe the boy sticks around a awhile.
And those are trades. You think the Cardinals will listen to Scott Boras and pay Matt Holliday the insane amount of money he'll require?

Hustla23
07-26-2009, 01:05 PM
does anybody realize hollidays stats were bad cause the team hes on, ok his homers are down so are david wrights but i dont see him getting blasted,oh yeah thats right because hes a met and cardinals get no respect
What the heck does this have to do with David Wright?

Everyone knows Wright is having a terrible year.

And now everyone's commenting on Holliday's stats increasing and becoming great :confused:

Ballah0liC1
07-27-2009, 09:22 AM
What the heck does this have to do with David Wright?

Everyone knows Wright is having a terrible year.

And now everyone's commenting on Holliday's stats increasing and becoming great :confused:

hes actually not but since their is nobody around him anybody cares about why let him even see the ball and it has to do with holliday cause its the same exact **** he was on a ****** A's team

redbird89
07-27-2009, 09:29 AM
I still think trading for Holliday was foolish, considering the prospects we gave up.

jtrinaldi
07-27-2009, 09:48 AM
redbird ur totally right
can someone lock this thread im tired of seeing it in the que on the right of psd BREAKING NEWS CARDINALS NAB HOLLIDAY...........its not longer breaking news guys so we shouldnt have to see it any more

Pinstripe pride
07-27-2009, 10:17 AM
If it gets the cardinals to the playoffs this year, it was good. That's it though because the odds of him resigning here are slim to none.