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Jamiecballer
07-24-2009, 12:21 PM
I am the last person to defend the job that JP has done in Toronto but this story by Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star really grinds my gears....

www.thestar.com/sports/article/671114



It seems like certain members of the media have nothing better to do than find ways to make certain peoples live difficult. JAYS GM BLAMES HALLADAY FOR TRADE TALK. Is there any question that title was intended to fuel the flaming against JP?

Look I heard the comments. It sounded to me like a statement of fact, not blame. Richard Griffin is a major league douchbag. Toronto sports media has too many of them as it is. One of these days I'd like to form a group of people to flood the papers editors with complaints and see if we can get something changed in the way that this city covers it's sports teams.

It has nothing to do with this particular issue really. Is anybody else sick of this crap?

wamco
07-24-2009, 12:43 PM
“Roy Halladay has not demanded a trade,” Ricciardi said. “We know what he wants and he knows what he wants. He hasn’t given us a list of teams. We’ve run teams by him to see if he has any interest in going there – yes or no. There is no secret, hidden agenda.

Speaking to reporters yesterday afternoon as he was getting on an elevator at the Rogers Centre, Ricciardi said: “I think I made this clear really early that Doc wanted to test the free-agent market. That’s the reason we’re going down this whole avenue.”

“I don’t want to address it,” Halladay said. “I don’t even know what he [Ricciardi] said. I’ll do it after I pitch.”
According to Rogers Sportsnet, Halladay’s initial reaction when approached by one of their reporters was: “This is not good.”

wamco
07-24-2009, 12:43 PM
double post

2009mvp
07-24-2009, 01:02 PM
That's what Griffin does, it's what he's been doing for 8 years. Sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong, but you can always count on his scorned lover-esque bitterness towards Ricciardi.

The_Realist
07-24-2009, 01:38 PM
Did you guys read the Griffin article a few weeks ago about the five reasons why the Blue Jays can't win. The problem is that the reasons are terrible and can easily be argued against. He tries his best to be the most pessimistic person ever. Here's the article.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/article/656331

Jamiecballer
07-24-2009, 02:08 PM
WAMCO-

Not sure what the point of this post is? Is there an opinion in there?

Jamiecballer
07-24-2009, 02:18 PM
Well I'm tired of the Toronto media being so unbelievably critical and downright mean. I love the city of Toronto but it shouldn't be a surprise athletes are often quick to get out of town. It's not objective journalism - and I am not just referring to this article- it is often downright abuse. Remember the Bryan McCabe saga? Can't imagine his life was a lot of fun the last 2 years he played here. Why are we so mean to our athletes? Do we think that will make them play better? Ridiculous.

For what it's worth I emailed the editor. If you are a sports fan in TO and feel the same way it would be great if you did too.

JAYZFAN9
07-24-2009, 02:47 PM
^ Not all of us wanna kiss jps ***

Jamiecballer
07-24-2009, 03:00 PM
^ Not all of us wanna kiss jps ***

What are you talking about? I wanted JP gone years ago. I am just sick of ******** writers like Richard Griffin who sell out their integrity to the highest bidder.

JAYZFAN9
07-24-2009, 03:09 PM
^ I for one enjoy the media raking JP over the coals whenever possible but hey thats just me..

Griffin is undeniably a tool , but I get a good kick out of his Jp bashing.. hey it looks good on a dink like jp imo

Frank Costanza
07-24-2009, 03:50 PM
^ I for one enjoy the media raking JP over the coals whenever possible but hey thats just me..

Griffin is undeniably a tool , but I get a good kick out of his Jp bashing.. hey it looks good on a dink like jp imo
exactly +100

ink
07-24-2009, 04:12 PM
WAMCO-

Not sure what the point of this post is? Is there an opinion in there?

If he used quote codes (i.e. just hit the "quote" button) it would be a lot easier to figure out who is even saying what. With a post like that I don't even know who is quoted, what they're saying and what his opinion is. wamco isn't the only one either. If anyone doesn't understand how to use the quote features on the site please PM me! Thanks.

ink
07-24-2009, 04:13 PM
^ I for one enjoy the media raking JP over the coals whenever possible but hey thats just me..

Griffin is undeniably a tool , but I get a good kick out of his Jp bashing.. hey it looks good on a dink like jp imo

:smoking:

I cannot tell a lie. I don't mind the articles either. lol.

We've waited so long for this guy to go. I was thinking back today to when I did my first facepalm about JP ... it was this one right here.

12/13/01 Traded Paul Quantrill and Cesar Izturis for Luke Prokopec and Chad Ricketts.

That kinda set the tone. Not spectacularly bad (JP never really is spectacular), but ...

ChongInc.
07-24-2009, 09:22 PM
frankly i think the problem with toronto sports media isnt that there too critical or mean.
i think the real issue is that they just have to write pages and pages every day about almost nothing sometimes.
i even see it when a player does something right.
its just like we are satisfied with that and dont push for bigger better things because they write all these pages and pages of garbage about how amasing that player is.
its not too harsh, its just too much.

wamco
07-24-2009, 10:34 PM
With a post like that I don't even know who is quoted



“Roy Halladay has not demanded a trade,” Ricciardi said. “We know what he wants and he knows what he wants. He hasn’t given us a list of teams. We’ve run teams by him to see if he has any interest in going there – yes or no. There is no secret, hidden agenda.

Speaking to reporters yesterday afternoon as he was getting on an elevator at the Rogers Centre, Ricciardi said: “I think I made this clear really early that Doc wanted to test the free-agent market. That’s the reason we’re going down this whole avenue.”

“I don’t want to address it,” Halladay said. “I don’t even know what he [Ricciardi] said. I’ll do it after I pitch.”
According to Rogers Sportsnet, Halladay’s initial reaction when approached by one of their reporters was: “This is not good.”

ink
07-24-2009, 11:34 PM
^ I still don't know who is being quoted. It's totally confusing. It says "wamco" says ... and then the quote seems to be from a news source.

:confused:

How about quoting the news source and giving a link underneath?

nithanyo
07-25-2009, 12:08 AM
I like it when the media beats up JP. I frankly think we dont do enough of it. But to beat up players. Especially loyal players like Wells and Rios is a bit too much i think. These guys earned their contract but have fallen off. Its the GM's fault if anything for jumping the gun and giving a truck load of money

I dont think its the End of Vernon or Alex. I actually think both of them are gonna hit soon...and hit well

BlueJayFanDan
07-27-2009, 12:53 AM
I just love how once again JP came out with this quote below. Keeping in mind he made the first official offer to the Phillies. He just needs to shut his mouth. He came out with this quote earlier in the day. He needs to not say were listening to offers when he offered the first deal. He really makes me mad. He talks way too much and flip flops on everything.



"We've said that we would listen, but that we would have to be motivated and 'wowed,'" Ricciardi said. "Right now we haven't been. I've said all along my gut tells me I won't be. I still stand by that."


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9856518/Jays-GM-calls-chances-of-Halladay-deal-'very-slim'

Zaunnie
07-27-2009, 12:58 AM
it's as big as his nose

forum199
07-28-2009, 05:55 AM
JP has done a terrible job of keeping negotiations under wraps. Every little updated offer from every team is quickly leaked to the press, and his little smug a%$ quickly tells any radio host willing to listen that teams better overpay to get the pitcher. Why do you think so many teams have become frustrated with JP and simply moved on from negotiations? Philly was the only one who showed true desperation to get Roy, and JP screwed that hand up by trying to make them bid against themselves. He constantly told the Dodgers that they have absolutely no shot without including Kershaw or Billingsley, something everyone in baseball knew was next to impossible. So they just decided to pretty much end their pursuit. The Angels made a substantial offer, but were told Aybar must be part of the deal. The Angels decided to end their pursuit. Who is left in all earnesty? The Phillies. JP has managed to alienate two of Halladay's biggest potential suitors, and engaged in contentious enough negotiations with Philly that they are ready to move on to Cliff Lee as well.

Riccardi was wrong all along in thinking that he didn't have trade Halladay until his price was met, and this was the biggest mistake of the entire negotiations. This trade drama has been a total debacle, and even "ice-water in his veins" Halladay has been rattled by the saga. Toronto's ridiculous mind games in the press have made it clear to Halladay that his future is not in Toronto whatsoever; especially when JP has kept him in limbo for this long.

However, Riccardi the salesman will make a big point about how he didn't give up Halladay for 50 cents on the dollar and expect everyone to shower him with praise for not catering to other teams' demands. However, the bottom line is the Jays will have royally screwed up their future if they don't trade away the ace this season. The Santana trade should make it clear that pending free agents will not bring a huge return in prospects. The contrast between the Santana and Bedard deals should aptly demonstrate the difference in value a pitcher has when he can help in two pennant races, versus one.

For Toronto's sake, let go of your ego JP.

carson005
07-28-2009, 05:58 AM
We have a winner. His value is as high as it will ever be right now. Teams will get two shots at the WS with Roy now and have a long time to talk extension

:clap:

Earmuffed1
07-28-2009, 06:00 AM
JP has done a terrible job of keeping negotiations under wraps. Every little updated offer from every team is quickly leaked to the press, and his little smug a%$ quickly tells any radio host willing to listen that teams better overpay to get the pitcher. Why do you think so many teams have become frustrated with JP and simply moved on from negotiations? Philly was the only one who showed true desperation to get Roy, and JP screwed that hand up by trying to make them bid against themselves. He constantly told the Dodgers that they have absolutely no shot without including Kershaw or Billingsley, something everyone in baseball knew was next to impossible. So they just decided to pretty much end their pursuit. The Angels made a substantial offer, but were told Aybar must be part of the deal. The Angels decided to end their pursuit. Who is left in all earnesty? The Phillies. JP has managed to alienate two of Halladay's biggest potential suitors, and engaged in contentious enough negotiations with Philly that they are ready to move on to Cliff Lee as well.

Riccardi was wrong all along in thinking that he didn't have trade Halladay until his price was met, and this was the biggest mistake of the entire negotiations. This trade drama has been a total debacle, and even "ice-water in his veins" Halladay has been rattled by the saga. Toronto's ridiculous mind games in the press have made it clear to Halladay that his future is not in Toronto whatsoever; especially when JP has kept him in limbo for this long.

However, Riccardi the salesman will make a big point about how he didn't give up Halladay for 50 cents on the dollar and expect everyone to shower him with praise for not catering to other teams' demands. However, the bottom line is the Jays will have royally screwed up their future if they don't trade away the ace this season. The Santana trade should make it clear that pending free agents will not bring a huge return in prospects. The contrast between the Santana and Bedard deals should aptly demonstrate the difference in value a pitcher has when he can help in two pennant races, versus one.

For Toronto's sake, let go of your ego JP.]]



Great post. the deal the phillies offered is a fantastic deal that will not be mached this year or next.

forum199
07-28-2009, 06:55 AM
Another interesting thing to note is the stark difference between Riccardi and his counterpart GM Mark Shapiro of the Indians. The Indians are perhaps the biggest seller in the trade market, due to the contrast between their talent and their record. Yet, not once have you heard anything inflammatory or revealing from the mouth of Shapiro. He does his business as quietly as anyone, and his track record of acquiring talent is unmatched. The Indians have really underachieved in recent years, but not because of him.

Although the hoopla in the Sabathia sweepstakes was similar, never did Shapiro become animated or demanding in public. Trade offers weren't leaked so badly, and teams were less aware of what they were bidding against (because that is how a GM should run his shop). Never did Shapiro act like he was entitled to certain players. The end result was Milwaukee taking a big stab before the deadline by offering up an incredible talent in LaPorta, very good prospect in Brantley, and others for 3 months of Sabathia.

He didn't become angry when the big-market Dodgers requested money to pay for Casey Blake's contract. Rather, he milked the situation and acquired incredible value in catcher Carlos Santana.

His legendary trade of Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips also speaks for itself.

The biggest lesson to be learned for a GM is that removing your ego from business is extremely beneficial and it also keeps the other team's GM from using his ego. When you don't try to blatantly win trades in the media or public forum, you have a better chance to win the trade in substance.

lukeem21
07-28-2009, 07:21 AM
]]



Great post. the deal the phillies offered is a fantastic deal that will not be mached this year or next.

what the phillies offered was IMO far from fantastic... what the jays asked for would have been a pretty good deal

and considering that halladay has two years left and in the toughest division in all of baseball to pitch in he has consistently been one of the best in the majors. He also has had next to none injuries in regards to anything that would be considered wear and tear on his arm.

Then you look at prospects and how random their success is so the odds that any one of them will actually come anywhere close to Halladay are really low. We have good pitching prospects and some good hitting prospects its not worth trading the best pitcher in baseball for a couple young guys giving us a little more depth in good prospects. We need front line guys with high ceilings.

forum199
07-28-2009, 07:42 AM
what the phillies offered was IMO far from fantastic... what the jays asked for would have been a pretty good deal

and considering that halladay has two years left and in the toughest division in all of baseball to pitch in he has consistently been one of the best in the majors. He also has had next to none injuries in regards to anything that would be considered wear and tear on his arm.

Then you look at prospects and how random their success is so the odds that any one of them will actually come anywhere close to Halladay are really low. We have good pitching prospects and some good hitting prospects its not worth trading the best pitcher in baseball for a couple young guys giving us a little more depth in good prospects. We need front line guys with high ceilings.

I'm not necessarily criticizing him for not pulling the trigger on a trade yet. He certainly should be haggling for the best price he can get. But what I have a bigger problem with is his brash personality and outspoken behavior that makes it much harder for other GMs to negotiate in good faith with him. He has basically cut off communications from multiple teams, because they won't give him the specific major league players he wants. He should be using that against the teams who refuse to part with these players by stealing the farm from them. Yet, he doesn't even seem to be willing to engage in negotiations with these teams unless they relent to his specific demands.

How is he supposed to create leverage? Why doesn't he use the media to say that the Dodgers have made an incredible offer, and add pressure to the Phillies? Why publicly disparage other teams' offers when they refuse your price? It doesn't exactly encourage teams to make big offers.

I agree that the offers coming in from Halladay are not very overwhelming. That is a by-product of the dramatic negotiations that have played themselves out. How did the Halladay rumors start anyways? Because JP decided to publicly tell the world that he was going to trade him. Halladay's value could have been milked a lot better. At this point, GMs are pretty leery of dealing with Riccardi, despite the shiny prize Halladay is. Riccardi should have seized upon the moment where teams initially realized that they could have the best pitcher in baseball if they acted boldly.

wamco
07-28-2009, 08:40 AM
eh, still time left until the deadline, I'll hold off my criticism until then.

He constantly told the Dodgers that they have absolutely no shot without including Kershaw or Billingsley, something everyone in baseball knew was next to impossible. So they just decided to pretty much end their pursuit. The Angels made a substantial offer, but were told Aybar must be part of the deal. The Angels decided to end their pursuit.

citation requested

forum199
07-28-2009, 08:44 AM
Yeah, this post might have been better served if it was made after the deadline. Riccardi will get the chance to make me eat my words if he comes away with a big-time offer.

However, if Riccardi fails to trade Roy Halladay away by this deadline, it should be the end of JP's career as a GM in professional baseball.

T.O. Fan
07-28-2009, 09:32 AM
Let's wait until the deal is dead before we burry the GM.

BB King
07-28-2009, 10:03 AM
Today is the day we see if JP will fold under pressure and take the best deal possible or go back and take a lesser deal later in the week.

bomber0104
07-28-2009, 11:13 AM
Screw that... you are not a Jays fan if you think the Phillies offer was good. You can't trade Halladay without getting someone with the potential to be a future ace and the Phillies did not offer Drabek so no deal if the right decision

ink
07-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Screw that... you are not a Jays fan if you think the Phillies offer was good. You can't trade Halladay without getting someone with the potential to be a future ace and the Phillies did not offer Drabek so no deal if the right decision

Guess what? Everyone in this forum is a Jays fan, whether they share your opinion or not. People say this kind of crap way too often around here.

R_Goulet
07-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Making another "Hate on JP" Post is getting really redundant! Are any of us privy to closed door conversations or have a wire tap on JP's phone??? How the he!! do any of us know how the negotiations are going. If he pulled the trigger too fast, there would have been a "Couldn't we have gotten more?" Post!

Yes JP's personality can resemble that of a used car salesmen at times...he can come off cocky and arrogant. Who gives a ****. I read in one LA paper today that the Dodger should trade Kershaw and two prospects to us for Halladay.

There is gonna be a team that will crack last minute and overpay!!!

Maybe the posturing is for a reason and we need to wait till a deal gets made. JP has had some good deals and some bad ones. I even recall this forum being full of happy fans the day Vern Signed that crazy contract because at the time, that was the market value. JP has had lots of mistakes. He has also had lots of f-up's but that is bound to happen when you are GM for 8 years!

Wait till a deal gets done before you start run'n your mouth. I am just really sick of reading posts about how much JP sucks! It is getting so boring that I have begun reading other team's forums to get the latest news on Halliday.

For the Love of God....ENOUGH WITH THE JP POSTS!!!!!! lol

ink
07-28-2009, 11:48 AM
For the Love of God....ENOUGH WITH THE JP POSTS!!!!!! lol

All you have to do is report them and we'll merge them.

R_Goulet
07-28-2009, 12:07 PM
All you have to do is report them and we'll merge them.

I didn't know about the Merging....but thanks for the info. btw Bettmen sig ha ha ha

wowzman
07-28-2009, 01:29 PM
The Santana trade should make it clear that pending free agents will not bring a huge return in prospects.


Never did Shapiro act like he was entitled to certain players. The end result was Milwaukee taking a big stab before the deadline by offering up an incredible talent in LaPorta, very good prospect in Brantley, and others for 3 months of Sabathia.

3 month rental


His legendary trade of Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips also speaks for itself.

another 3 month rental

So what is it? Either "pending free agents will not bring a huge return in prospects" or you can get "incredible talent" and make a "legendary trade" for a 3 month rental.


The contrast between the Santana and Bedard deals should aptly demonstrate the difference in value a pitcher has when he can help in two pennant races, versus one.

As it turns out, the Mariners got raped in that deal, exactly the same as JP is trying to do. Unless you believe Bedard is equal or better than Halladay, then we should get equal or better return for Roy. I don't think you will find many who would say Bedard is better, so we should be able to get much better players in a Hallady trade. The Mariners gave up 5 players in that deal, including the Mariners top rated prospect, Adam Jones.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3237189



Baltimore also extracted two more prospects than Bavasi initially wanted to give, according to Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail.

"We agreed to three names fairly quickly," MacPhail said from Baltimore. "But getting the fourth and fifth out of him was like getting water out of a stone.

"Given what the Mariners gave up to get him ...
top outfielder prospect Adam Jones, left-handed reliever George Sherrill... 19-year-old Chris Tillman was Seattle's minor-league pitcher of the year in 2007 and 20-year-old Tony Butler was considered one of the franchise's top young arms ...23-year-old right-hander Kam Mickolio, considered a middle reliever[/U]"


JP wants the Phillies 2 top rated prospects plus others. Doesn't seem like much of a stretch for arguably the best pitcher in baseball.


He (Shapiro) does his business as quietly as anyone, and his track record of acquiring talent is unmatched. The Indians have really underachieved in recent years, but not because of him.

Whose fault is it? If Shapiro gets talent and they underperform, then it's the players fault. Yet if JP gets talent and they underperform, it's JP fault? Is that what you are saying?


Although the hoopla in the Sabathia sweepstakes was similar, never did Shapiro become animated or demanding in public. Trade offers weren't leaked so badly, and teams were less aware of what they were bidding against (because that is how a GM should run his shop).

IMO if you have more than one team interested in a player, whether it be for a trade or for a Free Agent, you play them off against each other. (See Yankees vs Boston)


He didn't become angry when the big-market Dodgers requested money to pay for Casey Blake's contract. Rather, he milked the situation and acquired incredible value in catcher Carlos Santana.

He didn't take what the Dodgers demanded but held out for more. Hmmm sorta like what JP is doing maybe?


I agree that the offers coming in from Halladay are not very overwhelming. That is a by-product of the dramatic negotiations that have played themselves out.


Philly was the only one who showed true desperation to get Roy, and JP screwed that hand up by trying to make them bid against themselves. He constantly told the Dodgers that they have absolutely no shot without including Kershaw or Billingsley, something everyone in baseball knew was next to impossible. So they just decided to pretty much end their pursuit. The Angels made a substantial offer, but were told Aybar must be part of the deal. The Angels decided to end their pursuit.

If the offers JP received were "not very overwhelming" why should JP have taken them? If the other teams involved decided to "end their pursuit" because JP would not take their "not very overwhelming" offer, then I say kudos to JP.


How did the Halladay rumors start anyways? Because JP decided to publicly tell the world that he was going to trade him.

I believe it started after some reporter(s) wrote a story about how Halladay was being shopped around and JP was asked to confirm. If JP had said "No we are not shopping Halladay" and we find out later that he was, then everyone would be all over JP for lying again. Yet, when he tells the truth, he is vilified because he "decided to publicly tell the world that he was going to trade him." Again, he can not win.

Don't get me wrong. I have no love for JP, do not consider him to be a great GM and wqould be quite happy to see him gone but people have decided that they don't like him personally, for whatever reason (lying, big nose, big mouth, trading O-Dawg etc) and there is alot of emotion and personal dislike running through many posts. However, I am willing to accept that I have no idea whether "teams have become frustrated with JP", whether he has "managed to alienate two of Halladay's biggest potential suitors", whether he has "cut off communications from multiple teams", or whether the "not very overwhelming" offers are a "a by-product of the dramatic negotiations" or not. You seem be very positive about those items so I can only assume you have the ear of many major league GMs or are personally involved in the negotiation process. However, I am only a lowly fan and had no experience in the business of baseball or running a baseball club. I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors when trying to negotiate a baseball trade. I guess, as in other business dealings, you have an idea of what your product is worth and what you would be willing to accept for or part with for said product. Until such a time as both parties can agree on a deal, we can continue to discuss or we can decide the price is too high and walk away. I expect the discussions can and will continue.


But what I have a bigger problem with is his brash personality and outspoken behavior that makes it much harder for other GMs to negotiate in good faith with him.


his little smug a%$

You have decided you do not like JP because of his attitude. Therefore nothing JP does will meet with your satisfaction. You can give the benefit of the doubt to other GMs (Shapiro - because it is not his fault that his team undeperforms) that you will not give JP because of your personal feelings.

There is sufficient time remaing before the deadline comes for a deal to be reached. I am willing to wait to see what happens and pass my judgement on the situation at that time.


As for the love you are giving Shapiro lets travel back in time to an article from Baseball Prospectus on July 2, 1992;

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1544


..he (Shapiro) still felt the Indians could be competitive in the American League Central, a division with no dominant team. Signing Ricky Gutierrez (BJ Ryan?) and Brady Anderson (Big Hurt?) to free-agent contracts and extending the contract of newly-acquired Matt Lawton, (Vernon?) all deals that appeared to be well above the players' market value, was made in the effort to stay competitive. All of these moves were questionable at the time; three months into the 2002 season, they look even worse. Anderson has been released, Gutierrez is on the disabled list with a 595 OPS, and Lawton has been a disappointment, hitting .241/.350/.402.

Some fans wondered why the Indians didn't receive more pitching in return, or try to get a player that could contribute right now. Shapiro made inquiries along those fronts, but teams simply weren't willing to part with players that they felt were instrumental in their continued run for the division.

The Colon and Alomar trades have not gone over well with Tribe fans

Sounds a little familiar doesn't it.

forum199
07-28-2009, 02:07 PM
You misinterpreted alot of the points.

The Bedard-Santana comparison was made to show you how much more of a return an inferior pitcher like Bedard received compared to Santana, due to the differences in their free agent status.

The Bedard trade was a complete disaster, and Bill Bavasi lost his job after making it. Just because someone made a terrible trade before doesn't mean that you should expect someone to make a terrible one as well. And no, I don't consider Bedard to be anywhere near Halladay's level.

I don't have a personal problem with Riccardi; why would his cockiness upset me? I just think it's a very poor style of management (why unnecessarily diss Adam Dunn? Is that professional?)

And how are you going to blame Mark Shapiro for something that happened in 1992? He wasn't even the GM then; it was John Hart. If you want to get into that comparison anyways, I don't think blowing money on Matt Lawton was quite the same disaster as giving 131 million to Vernon Wells.

And what exactly were you trying to prove by saying that Indians fans hated the Colon trade? Did I criticize Riccardi for making unpopular moves? No, I don't think so.

ink
07-28-2009, 02:18 PM
I don't have a personal problem with Riccardi; why would his cockiness upset me? I just think it's a very poor style of management (why unnecessarily diss Adam Dunn? Is that professional?).

I've never understood the problem people have with JP's comments about Dunn. They were dumb, sure, but they were just a blip on the radar. It's everything that came before and after that radio interview since the beginning of his tenure with the Jays that has been the problem. Why do people always say the Dunn interview was so significant when it's the on-the-field product that has been so mediocre?? Lots of business people are jerks. Scotty Bowman is a jerk, but he's a master at what he does and that's what matters most.

papipapsmanny
07-28-2009, 02:59 PM
im just saying look at johan the twins got greedy and screwed themselves, they could of had masterson, Crisp and Lester or buchholz ellsbury and kalish. But they were greedy and look what they got.

Valleyfella
07-28-2009, 03:11 PM
J.P. takes a lot of flack - some deserved - but the bottom line is the Phillies, who have a deep pool of prospects, tried to acquire the best pitcher in baseball without giving up either their best pitching prospect (Drabek) or their best everyday prospect (Brown). It was a pointless offer and one they knew the Jays would reject, no doubt to make it look like their next offer was giving ground.

Personally, I thought the offer the Jays made - Halladay for Drabek, Happ and Brown - was one the Phillies should have jumped on. Doc's virtually automatic to give you a quality start and more often than not it's very high quality. Imagine having that 2 or 3 times in every playoff series. With the Phillies lineup, Halladay has the potential to win 9 out of every 10.

On the other hand, Drabek is in Double A, still some distance from the majors with no guarantee he will ever become a quality starter in the majors, let alone an ace. Brown has yet to hit big league pitching and Happ, although looking good so far, has yet to make it through the league a second or third time when hitters develop a book on him.

I understand the Phillies reluctance to give up too many blue chip prospects, but we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball. To me, a team's 3 best prospects should be the bare minimum the Jays accept. I don't blame J.P at all for expecting no less.

Macedonian
07-28-2009, 10:47 PM
Nice article!:)


The heat on Ricciardi

This is no easy time to be J.P. Ricciardi, either.

When you put a package like Roy Halladay on your shelves, you have no choice but to price him as if you're Neiman Marcus. This is no time to open a T.J. Maxx.

So for now, Ricciardi is doing exactly what he has to do -- set the bar higher than Mount Everest. The question is: What happens if no one is willing to pay those prices? Then what? Does he have to trade this man or not?

"Here's his problem," said an official of one American League team. "He's so far down this road now, I think he has to deal the guy this week. Their fan base is getting crazy. Their players are wondering what's going on. Halladay can't be too happy. It's turning into a circus. Roy Halladay is more popular than the Blue Jays organization. If people feel like you're jerking him around, then you've got even a bigger problem."

Of course, if the Blue Jays don't trade him this week, they'll have a different explanation. They'll say this man was too special to deal for what they were offered. They'll say they'll keep him and try to win with him next year. And as popular as Halladay is, that spin just might work.

"People talk about the pressure to make a deal, but I think there's actually more pressure the other way," another AL executive said. "I think the pressure from fans, and even from ownership, is actually: 'Don't do this. This is The Guy. We want him to stay.' So the pressure is not to do it. If you do anything less than make a great trade, the fan base might go crazy."

But another veteran baseball man disagreed, saying, "What are the chances of Halladay staying there after next year? They're zero. And you know those two draft picks they'd get if he left? How often do those two picks turn into stars? Not real often. So J.P. knows that if he's going to get impact players for Roy Halladay, he has to deal him."

And if Ricciardi is to get more than one impact player back, he can't wait to deal him any old time. That trade has to come in the next four days.

"He has to deal him now if he's going to get the kind of package he thinks he can get," one former GM said. "You know damn well this guy isn't getting through waivers [after Friday]. And if he gets to the winter, now he's just a rent-a-player."

So that's the pressure-packed dilemma facing Ricciardi this week.

If he doesn't trade Halladay, he might make his fans happy -- but he'll lose his chance to make a truly epic deal.

And if he does trade Halladay, he'll get the max return -- but it could vacuum all the life out of a franchise that hasn't played a postseason game since Joe Carter finished rounding the bases in 1993.

Talk about your classic lose-lose situation. It doesn't get much more lose-lose than this.

So how can any GM possibly be under more pressure than Ricciardi this week?
Source (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4361049)

wamco
07-29-2009, 08:16 AM
However, I am willing to accept that I have no idea whether "teams have become frustrated with JP",

As per buster olney, talks have become "angry"

wamco
07-29-2009, 08:16 AM
I've never understood the problem people have with JP's comments about Dunn

wow