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Mile High Champ
07-23-2009, 10:25 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember but I conducted a poll at the start of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. I would like to start this up once more considering the NBA season is now over and we can get to this discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best.

C Rankings DONT FORGET TO VOTE!!

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3)
4)
5)
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)

Last Years C Rankings:

1) Dwight Howard
2) Yao Ming
3) Al Jefferson
4) Andrew Bynum
5) Chris Kaman
6) Tyson Chandler
7) Shaquille O'Neal
8) Marcus Camby
9) Jermaine O'neal
10) Andrew Bogut

nygiants242
07-23-2009, 10:28 AM
Where's the poll?

Mile High Champ
07-23-2009, 10:30 AM
Poll is now up, you have to wait at least a min, takes some time to make it every time..

nygiants242
07-23-2009, 10:32 AM
Ah, thanks man. :D

nygiants242
07-23-2009, 10:34 AM
IMO hands down Jefferson. The guy was playing at an incredible level before his injury, and I'm sure he will return to form. Really an amazing player.

blujaysrock
07-23-2009, 10:34 AM
I got to give it to Bargnani

Macedonian
07-23-2009, 10:35 AM
Al Jefferson

Gibby23
07-23-2009, 10:38 AM
Big Al Jefferson. he's a beast. I would put him ahead of Yao, because Yao isn't playing next year. We don't even know if he will come back. It was a a pretty major surgery. They had to move bones around in his foot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4346566


Surgeons grafted bone onto the tarsal navicular bone and realigned his foot to reduce stress on the repair. The seven-time All-Star is slated to remain in the hospital for several days.

uncblue2332
07-23-2009, 10:39 AM
Big Al by far!!!!!!

AntiG
07-23-2009, 10:42 AM
the only guys that should even be considered for the 3 and 4 spots are Shaq and Jefferson.

Also, Rasheed Wallace should at least be an option, he's clearly a top 10 center.

Jays Claw
07-23-2009, 10:42 AM
Al Jefferson.

Jays Claw
07-23-2009, 10:43 AM
I got to give it to Bargnani

Bargnani is a #5 center at best.

CELTICS4LYFE
07-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Andrea Bargnani = homer voters!!!

Jays Claw
07-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Andrea Bargnani = Homer voters!!!

:sigh:

Gibby23
07-23-2009, 10:49 AM
the only guys that should even be considered for the 3 and 4 spots are Shaq and Jefferson.

Also, Rasheed Wallace should at least be an option, he's clearly a top 10 center.

He was like 2 years ago. He pretty much sucks now. Didn't he have 0 points in Detroits last playoff game against the Cavs?

slaker619
07-23-2009, 10:50 AM
Lopez

Jays Claw
07-23-2009, 10:52 AM
Lopez

:laugh:

Oh wait, your serious?

kbaxter34
07-23-2009, 11:03 AM
Lopez

WOW, thats a joke. I put
Al J
Shaq
Okafor
Camby
Biedrins
Bogut
Horford
Bynum
all before Lopez leaving him at 11th

masalex1205
07-23-2009, 11:04 AM
I got to give it to Bargnani

rightttt

kbaxter34
07-23-2009, 11:10 AM
I got to give it to Bargnani

I like my centers to grab more then 5 boards a game. Hes ranked 28th in double-doubles among centers. How is he the 3rd best center if he can't rebound.

Nighthawk
07-23-2009, 11:15 AM
Big Al

Shaq


Biedrins

Bynum

Kaman

Bogut

Camby

jimbobjarree
07-23-2009, 11:17 AM
I voted big Al, even though I see him as a PF playing out of position

Kakaroach
07-23-2009, 11:22 AM
Big Al Jefferson for this one.

iHolden
07-23-2009, 11:29 AM
Shaq baby! hes still a beast you guys just watch he makes the Cavs into that team that nobody wants to play...

Afridi786
07-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Where's Noah?

b_russ
07-23-2009, 11:32 AM
Al Jefferson as an out of position center stilll grabs the 3rd spot. Imagine if he was playing in his correct position where he'd rank among PFs. Sorry Minnesota fans, but what is your front office thinking!?!? Next years projected starting lineup:

PF Jefferson
PF Love
SF/PF Gomes or SF Brewer (he's played awful in the summer league)
PG Flynn
PG Rubio

TheKing23
07-23-2009, 11:37 AM
I voted big Al, even though I see him as a PF playing out of position

Agreed.
But I went with Shaq for this reason even though Al Jefferson is now the better player, but Al Jeff is a straight up baller. If he's healthy next season he should make a strong push for the All-Star team, one of the more dominant bigs in the league.

On another note, if Andrea Bargnani comes ahead of Shaq, Camby, Nene, Okafor, Kaman, Chandler, Biedrins even Lopez it will be a travesty.

6 double-doubles in 78 games, 5.3 rpg in 31.5 mpg

Yes, he can shoot, but that isn't the requirement of a good center. You need solid rebounding, post defense, and an inside presence and in my opinion Bargnani doesn't do any of this better than the player's named aboved.

Unruly Fan
07-23-2009, 11:37 AM
Al Jefferson as an out of position center stilll grabs the 3rd spot. Imagine if he was playing in his correct position where he'd rank among PFs. Sorry Minnesota fans, but what is your front office thinking!?!? Next years projected starting lineup:

PF Jefferson
PF Love
SF/PF Gomes or SF Brewer (he's played awful in the summer league)
PG Flynn
PG RubioSmall/ inexperienced backcourt = problems

NickyNick
07-23-2009, 11:38 AM
def. al jefferson if he was still on the celtics everyone would vote him 8th or 9th because everyone hates on the celtics players

lakers4sho
07-23-2009, 11:41 AM
Small/ inexperienced backcourt = problems

oh yeah because they'd be contending right away :rolleyes:

Wade_County
07-23-2009, 11:52 AM
So Amare considered a PF?

Hawkeye15
07-23-2009, 12:48 PM
guess who I pick

Unruly Fan
07-23-2009, 12:51 PM
So Amare considered a PF?He was ranked 5 or 6 in the Power Forward poll not 2 weeks ago.

Strumpy
07-23-2009, 12:57 PM
Al Jefferson

J_M_B
07-23-2009, 01:02 PM
Al Jefferson 3rd and Shaq 4th

Mile High Champ
07-23-2009, 01:05 PM
On another note, if Andrea Bargnani comes ahead of Shaq, Camby, Nene, Okafor, Kaman, Chandler, Biedrins even Lopez it will be a travesty.

6 double-doubles in 78 games, 5.3 rpg in 31.5 mpg

Yes, he can shoot, but that isn't the requirement of a good center. You need solid rebounding, post defense, and an inside presence and in my opinion Bargnani doesn't do any of this better than the player's named aboved.


That makes no sense, there is no rule that Centers have to average a certain amount of rebounds in order to be a good center. Look at the list you offered, what makes Chandler, Kaman, Okafor such great choices? None of them had very great years. I would agree that right now Shaq and Camby have a bit more to offer at the moment but its not by much.

Look at his rebound numbers from when he started to get consisent minutes..

January - 6.2 RPG
Feb - 6.7 RPG
March - 6.0 RPG

Now they are not great but not awful. To judge how good a center is based on rebounding alone is plain crazy. Not to mention Bargnani has some above average post defense, he does average over a block a game. Shoots a high percentage if you consider how often he takes shots from at least 15 feet out. One of two centers (Okur the other one) who can hit the 3... He creates a lot of matchup problems for teams every time out. I am not saying he is easily atop 5 but he should for sure be in the top 10.. I know he will get no respect on PSD until he averages 20 a game and 7-8 boards but he is truly a great great player. I don't know if its all the hate for Toronto and Canada in general on PSD but he does deserve some respect.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-23-2009, 01:05 PM
Anyone who doesn't say Al Jefferson in whack.

zo#33
07-23-2009, 01:06 PM
Shaq

MajorFloridaFan
07-23-2009, 01:06 PM
WOW RASHEED WALLACE is not a center and your a homer if you say barnyarni

JWO35
07-23-2009, 01:07 PM
Al Jefferson

Mile High Champ
07-23-2009, 01:09 PM
WOW RASHEED WALLACE is not a center and your a homer if you say barnyarni

Very nice, who helped you with your spelling?

MajorFloridaFan
07-23-2009, 01:12 PM
LOLOL i know how to spell his name i was making a joke

UofA
07-23-2009, 01:22 PM
It's a shame Bargnani is getting votes for #3

It's definitely Al Jefferson

omarz8
07-23-2009, 01:38 PM
without a doubt Al Jefferson

Mikeleafs
07-23-2009, 01:39 PM
My ideal Centre needs to be able to defend first, alter shots and be a presence in the paint. He also needs to be able to rebound, block shots AND SCORE!!

My list would be:
1 - Dwight
2 - Yao
3 - Big Al
4 - Shaq
5 - Bargnani
6 - Beidrins
7 - Chandler
8 - Bynum
9 - Perkins
10 - Okur

TheKing23
07-23-2009, 01:44 PM
That makes no sense, there is no rule that Centers have to average a certain amount of rebounds in order to be a good center. Look at the list you offered, what makes Chandler, Kaman, Okafor such great choices? None of them had very great years. I would agree that right now Shaq and Camby have a bit more to offer at the moment but its not by much.

Look at his rebound numbers from when he started to get consisent minutes..

January - 6.2 RPG
Feb - 6.7 RPG
March - 6.0 RPG

Now they are not great but not awful. To judge how good a center is based on rebounding alone is plain crazy. Not to mention Bargnani has some above average post defense, he does average over a block a game. Shoots a high percentage if you consider how often he takes shots from at least 15 feet out. One of two centers (Okur the other one) who can hit the 3... He creates a lot of matchup problems for teams every time out. I am not saying he is easily atop 5 but he should for sure be in the top 10.. I know he will get no respect on PSD until he averages 20 a game and 7-8 boards but he is truly a great great player. I don't know if its all the hate for Toronto and Canada in general on PSD but he does deserve some respect.

I am not basing my argument primarily on his rebounding averages, I just think that is a key part of being a good center.
I'm not saying he's not a good center, i'm just saying that the players I mentioned play the center position more conventionally (better rebounders, stronger in the post), Bargnani strikes me as a PF playing C.

If we go on numbers alone, the players I offered are all better centers than Bargnani. Emeka Okafor has never not averaged a double-double for a season and has career averages of 14 ppg, 10.8 rpg and 1.8 bpg. Tyson Chandler has averaged 9 boards a game for his career, including two seasons where he averaged 12.4 rpg and 11.7 rpg, he's also a good post defender. Chris Kaman is a solid rebounder and post defender who can shoot a bit aswell.

Rebounding isn't the be all and end all of being a good center, but I think its definitely one of the most important aspects. For a starting center to average slightly above 5 boards a game I don't think he should be in the top 7-8 centers, maybe top 10 though.

Ace33Bone
07-23-2009, 01:50 PM
I voted for Shaq but I am not upset that Al jefferson is ahead of him

Ace33Bone
07-23-2009, 01:51 PM
somebody actually voted for Brook Lopez if it was not Brook Lopez himself or his twin brother it had to be a homer

MajorFloridaFan
07-23-2009, 01:52 PM
^^^^agree

YankeeFan89
07-23-2009, 02:08 PM
Al jeff!

Chronz
07-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Brook Lopez is better than alot of Bigs, including Bargs, Kaman, prolly Camby.

zambo4president
07-23-2009, 02:24 PM
Can we stop with the homer voters please? Nene? Bargnani? Biedrins? Seriously? Al Jeff easily here.

zambo4president
07-23-2009, 02:25 PM
Brook Lopez is better than alot of Bigs, including Bargs, Kaman, prolly Camby.

Yeah easily. I think he will be about 6th or 7th on this list.

Chronz
07-23-2009, 02:32 PM
Im a Clippers fan and I cant get over how highly people think of Kaman. FOB had him as high as 5.

kbaxter34
07-23-2009, 02:41 PM
That makes no sense, there is no rule that Centers have to average a certain amount of rebounds in order to be a good center. Look at the list you offered, what makes Chandler, Kaman, Okafor such great choices? None of them had very great years. I would agree that right now Shaq and Camby have a bit more to offer at the moment but its not by much.

Look at his rebound numbers from when he started to get consisent minutes..

January - 6.2 RPG
Feb - 6.7 RPG
March - 6.0 RPG

Now they are not great but not awful. To judge how good a center is based on rebounding alone is plain crazy. Not to mention Bargnani has some above average post defense, he does average over a block a game. Shoots a high percentage if you consider how often he takes shots from at least 15 feet out. One of two centers (Okur the other one) who can hit the 3... He creates a lot of matchup problems for teams every time out. I am not saying he is easily atop 5 but he should for sure be in the top 10.. I know he will get no respect on PSD until he averages 20 a game and 7-8 boards but he is truly a great great player. I don't know if its all the hate for Toronto and Canada in general on PSD but he does deserve some respect.

I wouldn't say its any more crazy then judging PGs on assists or SG on points. IMO a good center should rebound and protect the paint first, score second. If you can't rebound or block shots, then what good are you as a center. Usually when a center has low rebounding numbers its because they are playing out of position, away from the basket. Ill take 10 and 10 from my center any day of the week over 17 and 5.

GSW fan
07-23-2009, 02:43 PM
I voted for Al Jeff, even though on most teams hed be a PF IMO.

Shaq next

IversonIsKrazy
07-23-2009, 03:53 PM
Al-Jeff easy, best post moves out of all the Centers on that list.

haircanada
07-23-2009, 03:58 PM
can we just start the 5th best already like holy ***** we all no its gunna go jeferson then shaq

dtmagnet
07-23-2009, 04:41 PM
I voted Shaq but Al Jeff can just as easily take this spot

ARMIN12NBA
07-23-2009, 04:52 PM
Big Al Jefferson. he's a beast. I would put him ahead of Yao, because Yao isn't playing next year. We don't even know if he will come back. It was a a pretty major surgery. They had to move bones around in his foot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4346566

Al Jefferson had an injury that usually takes a year to heal from and is expected to miss all of training camp...

Gibby23
07-23-2009, 05:03 PM
Al Jefferson had an injury that usually takes a year to heal from and is expected to miss all of training camp...

He did, but his surgery was commen and players come back from that all the time now. The surgery that Yao had is still new, the moved bones around in his foot.

Sean McG
07-23-2009, 05:14 PM
can we just start the 5th best already like holy ***** we all no its gunna go jeferson then shaq

Agreed, it's blatantly obvious who the 3 and 4 are already.

ARMIN12NBA
07-23-2009, 05:15 PM
He did, but his surgery was commen and players come back from that all the time now. The surgery that Yao had is still new, the moved bones around in his foot.

I know. I was just making a general comment. I still voted for Al Jeff.

Gibby23
07-23-2009, 05:22 PM
Andrea Bargnani, he's not even a better center than Troy Murphy.

luuuooooool9
07-23-2009, 05:58 PM
wheres mah boy joakim noah???

Hawkeye15
07-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Al Jefferson had an injury that usually takes a year to heal from and is expected to miss all of training camp...

news to me. Al is ahead of schedule from what I understand, and they are confident he will be in training camp at some point.
an acl tear takes a year to recover from? I guess for some. Everyone's body is different. Brewer tore his acl 15 games in, and just got done playing summer league, so that was 9 months from tear, to playing. From what I understand, they had a mirror injury. I guess we will see. Either way, good vote brutha

yanksknicksgmen
07-23-2009, 07:13 PM
big al

BlondeBomber41
07-23-2009, 07:15 PM
That makes no sense, there is no rule that Centers have to average a certain amount of rebounds in order to be a good center. Look at the list you offered, what makes Chandler, Kaman, Okafor such great choices? None of them had very great years. I would agree that right now Shaq and Camby have a bit more to offer at the moment but its not by much.

Look at his rebound numbers from when he started to get consisent minutes..

January - 6.2 RPG
Feb - 6.7 RPG
March - 6.0 RPG

Now they are not great but not awful. To judge how good a center is based on rebounding alone is plain crazy. Not to mention Bargnani has some above average post defense, he does average over a block a game. Shoots a high percentage if you consider how often he takes shots from at least 15 feet out. One of two centers (Okur the other one) who can hit the 3... He creates a lot of matchup problems for teams every time out. I am not saying he is easily atop 5 but he should for sure be in the top 10.. I know he will get no respect on PSD until he averages 20 a game and 7-8 boards but he is truly a great great player. I don't know if its all the hate for Toronto and Canada in general on PSD but he does deserve some respect.

The guy averages 5 rebounds in over 30 minutes of playing time. Lets break that down and compare it.

Thats four less a game in 5 more minutes than a rookie Kevin Love averaged, and Love played PF next to Al Jefferson!

Zaza Pachulia in 19 minutes a game averages more rebounds than Bargnani.

Erick Dampier, who most people think is a terrible player, averages 2 more RPG despite player 7 less MPG.

He averages less RPG than PG's Chris Paul and Jason Kidd and is on par with Rajon Rondo.

He averages .2 RPG more than Kurt Thomas, who only played sparingly off the bench for San Antonio last year.

Even Eddy Curry, the kings of non rebounding centers, averaged more RPG than Bargnani in less minutes!

Plus its not like there arent plenty of chances for rebounds running and gunning in Toronto and its not like he has exceptional offense to make up for his board work. He put in 15 PPG yeah but on 45% shooting, which is well below average for a 7 ft player.

If Im building a contending team I can very easily name 10 centers I would take over Bargnani.

Shaq
Yao
Howard
Kaman
Camby
Jefferson
Bogut
Chandler
Bynum
Biendrins
Lopez
Nene
Okafor

BlondeBomber41
07-23-2009, 07:17 PM
Im a Clippers fan and I cant get over how highly people think of Kaman. FOB had him as high as 5.

You're a Rockets fan :p

Kaman is a real solid player. He had a bad year last year but he averaged 16/13 with 3 blocks a game the year before.

Chronz
07-23-2009, 07:17 PM
well said bb41

MJ-BULLS
07-23-2009, 07:30 PM
Al Jefferson

boms-4
07-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Jefferson hands down

mrblisterdundee
07-23-2009, 07:53 PM
I got to give it to Bargnani

Are you kidding me? That's as stupid as when that one guy was the only vote for Bargnani to be Rookie of the Year when everybody else voted for Brandon Roy. You need to give it up. Bargnani is too much of a ***** to be a center. Take a look at Dirk Nowitzki. Bargnani is going to make his mark as a power forward. It's time for you and Toronto to realize that, and plan according to whether you want to keep Bosh or Bargnani.

Mile High Champ
07-23-2009, 08:28 PM
The guy averages 5 rebounds in over 30 minutes of playing time. Lets break that down and compare it.

Thats four less a game in 5 more minutes than a rookie Kevin Love averaged, and Love played PF next to Al Jefferson!

Zaza Pachulia in 19 minutes a game averages more rebounds than Bargnani.

Erick Dampier, who most people think is a terrible player, averages 2 more RPG despite player 7 less MPG.

He averages less RPG than PG's Chris Paul and Jason Kidd and is on par with Rajon Rondo.

He averages .2 RPG more than Kurt Thomas, who only played sparingly off the bench for San Antonio last year.

Even Eddy Curry, the kings of non rebounding centers, averaged more RPG than Bargnani in less minutes!

Plus its not like there arent plenty of chances for rebounds running and gunning in Toronto and its not like he has exceptional offense to make up for his board work. He put in 15 PPG yeah but on 45% shooting, which is well below average for a 7 ft player.

If Im building a contending team I can very easily name 10 centers I would take over Bargnani.

Shaq
Yao
Howard
Kaman
Camby
Jefferson
Bogut
Chandler
Bynum
Biendrins
Lopez
Nene
Okafor

Again thats your opinion, it does not make it right bomber. I could care less if he averages 6 boards a game. I dont think he will ever be a great rebounder, personally I see somewhere between 8-9 for him when its all said and done. About your list, its all about opinion. Personally I like that Bargnani can do more on the offensive end then any of the centers you named. Maybe not as dominant of course, Howard, Ming, Jefferson and Even Shaq still take that list. He is creative, can hit any shot from anywhere on the floor, plays good defense, takes it to the basket, blocks shots. If the team is winning with him at center, I say he is getting the job done.. Personally I would rather have Bargnani at then most of the guys on that list other than Shaq, Jefferson, Ming, Howard... I would much rather have him that Bynum, Kaman, Nene, Okafor. Camby, Bogut etc. Its all about prefrence, the fact that he is a matchup nightmare for teams speaks volumes for his talent, Personally I think thisis more rooted about hate for Canadians and of course international players by the PSD community.

Mile High Champ
07-23-2009, 08:28 PM
Are you kidding me? That's as stupid as when that one guy was the only vote for Bargnani to be Rookie of the Year when everybody else voted for Brandon Roy. You need to give it up. Bargnani is too much of a ***** to be a center. Take a look at Dirk Nowitzki. Bargnani is going to make his mark as a power forward. It's time for you and Toronto to realize that, and plan according to whether you want to keep Bosh or Bargnani.

or both...haha

LA_Raiders
07-23-2009, 08:48 PM
Yao?

Al #3

IBleedPurple
07-23-2009, 08:52 PM
Safe to say this one is wrapped up.

Moving on.......

Optimus Prime15
07-23-2009, 08:52 PM
First off Al Jefferson is playing out of position, he's not a true center! So x that! I would say as far as production wise because he was healthy all year and this year he will kill! Brook Lopez for number 3! His numbers as a rookie where beautiful especially to be playing Center! and this year will be even better as he gets stronger, more moves on the block, even more improved jumper, quicker, a year experience and D Wade tossing your **** twice like you were a little *** guard will do alot for your game!LOL!

Optimus Prime15
07-23-2009, 08:54 PM
Yao?

Al #3

Yea Yao is def a ? mark! I don't know about that one! He is too injury prone to be considered a number 2 Center! I could see if he was healthy most of the time but he ain't so I question that!

IBleedPurple
07-23-2009, 08:54 PM
Agreed, it's blatantly obvious who the 3 and 4 are already.

^this

DaddyCool
07-24-2009, 01:49 AM
Where's the poll?


Ah, thanks man. :D


IMO hands down Jefferson. The guy was playing at an incredible level before his injury, and I'm sure he will return to form. Really an amazing player.

Post pad much?
Al Jeff it is.

Chronz
07-24-2009, 03:26 AM
How good is Bargs defensively? Tier wise, top 10 15?

itsripcity32
07-24-2009, 03:38 AM
shaq.

B.JenningsMVP
07-24-2009, 04:12 AM
Big Al killin' the errybody else! lol

Pa1nl3ss
07-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Ok Big Z is not 3rd center, but seeing names that are here, he also must be aviable pick.