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View Full Version : Did the Lakers-Heat trade for a championship?



IrespectNumber3
07-22-2009, 12:51 PM
In 2004-05 When the LA Lakers traded Shaquille O'neal to Miami for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler (which turned into Paul Gasol), Brian Grant (turned into ??) and a first round pick that turned into Jordan Famar.

Looking back I know many experts think Shaq and Kobe couldv'e won more titles but I seriously think the Pistons and the Spurs at the time were way better.

Remember the Lakers had Shaq Malone George Kobe Payton....and lost in 5 games to the Pistons who went to the finals the following year against the Spurs.

The Miami Heat might have gotten better over that year with Wade but the trade turned him to a superstar.

With that said does anyone believe eventually that the Heat and the Lakers would have won a title without the trade? Or was the trade meant to pan out for both teams to get a title in the future?

Wilson
07-22-2009, 01:01 PM
The Lakers definately could have won another championship or two with Shaq and Kobe. The problem was, they were both just too immature. Kobe had issues being the second guy, and Shaq had issues staying in shape. If they both just grew up, and put more effort into working together than fighting over who was the main guy, they would have brought more gold home.

Storch
07-22-2009, 01:06 PM
Shaq and kobe werent done winning titles together yet ... They couldve made another run at it, or two.

RaiderLakersA's
07-22-2009, 01:10 PM
If the trade never happened, Shaq would have left without the Lakers getting anything in return.

Where would he have ended up? There is no guarantee that would have been in Miami. Wade was a rising superstar, but I don't think anyone other than Riley and the Heat felt they were one Shaq away from winning it all. Would the Heat have met his UFA salary demands? Or would Shaq have gone to, say, San Antonio to play with Duncan or even Phoenix? My guess is that he would have gone to SA as a free agent, a place where multiple title chances would have been all but assured.

Thus starts the butterfly effect, and many fans of other teams won't be happy with the trickle down effect. The Heat would not have won a title, obviously, without Shaq. The Spurs would have been unquestionably the most dominant franchise. Further, the Lakers would have started their rebuild much earlier, with tons of money in their coffers. Likely Kevin Garnett ends up in a Lakers uniform. As a result, the Celtics would not have won their title, as KG was essential to the C's championship run. In fact, think of any star available after Shaq was traded to the Heat and you're probably seeing a guy who would have been with the Lakers, as they started to rebuild around Kobe.

We know that Miami wouldn't have won a title, but would the Lakers? If Shaq, Duncan, Horry, Ginobli and Parker are all on one team, with no injuries, and Shaq being his usual dominant self, I'd have to say no. At least not until now, when clearly Shaq is in decline and Horry retired. But again, it's hard to really know who else The Logo and Kupcheck would have teamed up with Kobe, Garnett and company. Too bad we can hit the "undo" button and see this alternate reality.

Anyone else want to give it a shot?

JordansBulls
07-22-2009, 01:30 PM
Shaq and kobe werent done winning titles together yet ... They couldve made another run at it, or two.

I think in 2005 it would have been an off year, but they could have been back at it in 2006.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-22-2009, 01:34 PM
The Lakers definately could have won another championship or two with Shaq and Kobe. The problem was, they were both just too immature. Kobe had issues being the second guy, and Shaq had issues staying in shape. If they both just grew up, and put more effort into working together than fighting over who was the main guy, they would have brought more gold home.

Shaq was at a proper weight in Miami until his last year.

He wasn't overweight.

And Shaq's problem was that Kobe ratted him out when he said Shaq pays women to keep their mouth shut.

ko8e24
07-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Good topic, never thought of it like that before.

jimbobjarree
07-22-2009, 01:40 PM
Shaq trade got Heat a championship, the Pau 'Paul' Gasol gift got the Lakers theirs

masalex1205
07-22-2009, 01:51 PM
I wouldn't say that that trade turned Wade into a superstar.

Wilson
07-22-2009, 01:52 PM
Shaq was at a proper weight in Miami until his last year.

He wasn't overweight.

And Shaq's problem was that Kobe ratted him out when he said Shaq pays women to keep their mouth shut.

He showed up overweight to Laker camps a couple of times. He also made a fuss when Phil Jackson wanted to start running the offense through Kobe more.

Kobe was definately a problem on those teams, but Shaq was just as childish.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-22-2009, 01:57 PM
He showed up overweight to Laker camps a couple of times. He also made a fuss when Phil Jackson wanted to start running the offense through Kobe more.

Kobe was definately a problem on those teams, but Shaq was just as childish.

I agree that they were both childish but the biggest reason started when Kobe commented about Shaq in his trial.

barbjake
07-22-2009, 01:57 PM
I don't think that trade really had much to do with the Lakers championship...
Pau was GIVEN to the Lakers by a GM who had been a Laker for his whole career. Jordan Farmar was insignificant to this championship team, as was Brian Grant.

The trade helped the Heat. It gave the Heat a title. The trade gave the Heat Shaq, which is why they won the title. And he is why the Lakers won 3 in a row.

Shaq needed to leave town, because Kobe is a prima donna. Kobe being a little girl cost him about 3 rings. Kobe wanted to be the best on his team, and he knew he'd never be as good as shaq. It's funny, D. Wade found a way to be the best player on a team with Shaq... go figure.

Ethix11
07-22-2009, 01:58 PM
That sucks that Kobe ratted him out like a girl. But then again, thanks Kobe for helping us win a Championship in some small way or another. I guess you really are THAT good.

SwaggaIke
07-22-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't think that trade really had much to do with the Lakers championship...
Pau was GIVEN to the Lakers by a GM who had been a Laker for his whole career. Jordan Farmar was insignificant to this championship team, as was Brian Grant.

The trade helped the Heat. It gave the Heat a title. The trade gave the Heat Shaq, which is why they won the title. And he is why the Lakers won 3 in a row.

Shaq needed to leave town, because Kobe is a prima donna. Kobe being a little girl cost him about 3 rings. Kobe wanted to be the best on his team, and he knew he'd never be as good as shaq. It's funny, D. Wade found a way to be the best player on a team with Shaq... go figure.

I think Lamar Odom would have something to say about that.

ARMIN12NBA
07-22-2009, 04:06 PM
The Lakers definately could have won another championship or two with Shaq and Kobe. The problem was, they were both just too immature. Kobe had issues being the second guy, and Shaq had issues staying in shape. If they both just grew up, and put more effort into working together than fighting over who was the main guy, they would have brought more gold home.

It was actually the other way around in 2003-2004. Shaq had issues slowly becoming the 2nd man to Kobe and Kobe has issues with Shaq staying in shape. Like I said at the time, all the problems lead right back to Shaq. When Shaq was dominant from 96-02, Kobe took a back seat, but when Kobe started to become a better player, Shaq wasn't willing to take a back seat.

ARMIN12NBA
07-22-2009, 04:08 PM
I agree that they were both childish but the biggest reason started when Kobe commented about Shaq in his trial.

It actually started in 2001. It also ended in 2001 and ended for a while until the 2004 training camp when Kobe called out Shaq for being ridiculously out of shape, being the reason the Lakers lost the previous year before (getting surgery on "company time"...aka the NBA season), and not supporting him.

ARMIN12NBA
07-22-2009, 04:09 PM
I think in 2005 it would have been an off year, but they could have been back at it in 2006.

Why is that?

RaiderLakersA's
07-22-2009, 04:10 PM
It was actually the other way around in 2003-2004. Shaq had issues slowly becoming the 2nd man to Kobe and Kobe has issues with Shaq staying in shape. Like I said at the time, all the problems lead right back to Shaq. When Shaq was dominant from 96-02, Kobe took a back seat, but when Kobe started to become a better player, Shaq wasn't willing to take a back seat.

That's how I remember it as well. :clap::clap::clap:

Raps18-19 Champ
07-22-2009, 04:17 PM
It actually started in 2001. It also ended in 2001 and ended for a while until the 2004 training camp when Kobe called out Shaq for being ridiculously out of shape, being the reason the Lakers lost the previous year before (getting surgery on "company time"...aka the NBA season), and not supporting him.


Shaq commented that Kobe ratted him out and he doesn't want him in the locker room anymore. I think that was the spark that led to the disband.

RaiderLakersA's
07-22-2009, 04:18 PM
Shaq commented that Kobe ratted him out and he doesn't want him in the locker room anymore. I think that was the spark that led to the disband.

Kobe and Shaq weren't getting along looooong before that.

Raps18-19 Champ
07-22-2009, 04:21 PM
Kobe and Shaq weren't getting along looooong before that.

Ya but that incident was a big reason for the spilt.

ARMIN12NBA
07-22-2009, 05:24 PM
Shaq commented that Kobe ratted him out and he doesn't want him in the locker room anymore. I think that was the spark that led to the disband.

They had problems before that. Notably in 2001 when Kobe felt he could be an MVP type player. Kobe sucked it up for the sake of the team and Kobe/Shaq completely dominated together in 2001 going 15-1. Things cooled off until 2003. Shaq had an injury during the summer, but refused to get surgery. He waited until "company time" to get surgery. THIS was the incident that sparked everything. THIS was the incident that made Buss, Mitch, and Kobe go sour on Shaq. Because of Shaq, the Lakers had no cohesion and they lost that season. The next year was when Kobe mentioned to the police that Shaq also had marital affairs. Shaq also went into training camp overweight and unwilling to work. Kobe was pissed at Shaq. Shaq was pissed at Kobe...Not only that, but Kobe was becoming more of a focal point of the offense (due to Shaq's negligence to try hard and the fact that Kobe was developing as a better and more dominant player), which made Shaq even more mad...Anyways, it was truly a long sequence of events that led to this. In the end, the dude who was not willing to cooperate was Shaq. Kobe was always willing to take a backseat AS LONG AS THE TEAM WON. Shaq didn't give a damn. He was willing to take games off and risk the team success, which went as far as causing the Lakers consecutive losses in the playoffs.

KaganRS
07-22-2009, 06:05 PM
If the trade never happened, Shaq would have left without the Lakers getting anything in return.

Where would he have ended up? There is no guarantee that would have been in Miami. Wade was a rising superstar, but I don't think anyone other than Riley and the Heat felt they were one Shaq away from winning it all. Would the Heat have met his UFA salary demands? Or would Shaq have gone to, say, San Antonio to play with Duncan or even Phoenix? My guess is that he would have gone to SA as a free agent, a place where multiple title chances would have been all but assured.

Thus starts the butterfly effect, and many fans of other teams won't be happy with the trickle down effect. The Heat would not have won a title, obviously, without Shaq. The Spurs would have been unquestionably the most dominant franchise. Further, the Lakers would have started their rebuild much earlier, with tons of money in their coffers. Likely Kevin Garnett ends up in a Lakers uniform. As a result, the Celtics would not have won their title, as KG was essential to the C's championship run. In fact, think of any star available after Shaq was traded to the Heat and you're probably seeing a guy who would have been with the Lakers, as they started to rebuild around Kobe.

We know that Miami wouldn't have won a title, but would the Lakers? If Shaq, Duncan, Horry, Ginobli and Parker are all on one team, with no injuries, and Shaq being his usual dominant self, I'd have to say no. At least not until now, when clearly Shaq is in decline and Horry retired. But again, it's hard to really know who else The Logo and Kupcheck would have teamed up with Kobe, Garnett and company. Too bad we can hit the "undo" button and see this alternate reality.

Anyone else want to give it a shot?

No , that was perfect.

JJ81
07-22-2009, 06:56 PM
In 2004-05 When the LA Lakers traded Shaquille O'neal to Miami for Lamar Odom, Caron Butler (which turned into Paul Gasol), Brian Grant (turned into ??) and a first round pick that turned into Jordan Famar.

Paul Gasol?

4:53 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQlf2J6iMl4

S-Dot
07-22-2009, 09:10 PM
Shaq and Kobe would have won one more because Kobe was still getting better after the trade. Not sure about the Heat though....tough to predict.